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BAMAPHIN 22
07-17-2007, 10:37 AM
Whenever the Supreme Court makes a decision that in any way restricts the intrusion of religion into the affairs of government, a flood of editorials, articles, and letters protesting the ruling is sure to appear in the newspapers. Many protesters decry these decisions on the grounds that they conflict with the wishes and intents of the "founding fathers."

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/07/16/the-christian-nation-myth/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infidels.org%2Flibrary%2Fmodern%2Ffarrell_till%2Fmyth.html&frame=true

BigDogsHunt
07-17-2007, 10:51 AM
But......that doesnt mean they werent religious - or men of FAITH:

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html




Ennumerating the Founding Fathers
The three major foundational documents of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence (July 1776), the Articles of Confederation (drafted 1777, ratified 1781) and the Constitution of the United States of America (1789). There are a total of 143 signatures on these documents, representing 118 different signers. (Some individuals signed more than one document.)

There were 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. There were 48 signers of the Articles of Confederation. All 55 delegates who participated in the Constitutional Convention of 1787 are regarded as Founding Fathers, in fact, they are often regarded as the Founding Fathers because it is this group that actually debated, drafted and signed the U.S. Constitution, which is the basis for the country's political and legal system. Only 39 delegates actually signed the document, however, meaning there were 16 non-signing delegates - individuals who were Constitutional Convention delegates but were not signers of the Constitution.

There were 95 Senators and Representatives in the First Federal Congress. If one combines the total number of signatures on the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution with the non-signing Constitutional Convention delegates, and then adds to that sum the number of congressmen in the First Federal Congress, one obtains a total of 238 "slots" or "positions" in these groups which one can classify as "Founding Fathers" of the United States. Because 40 individuals had multiple roles (http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html#multiple) (they signed multiple documents and/or also served in the First Federal Congress), there are 204 unique individuals in this group of "Founding Fathers." These are the people who did one or more of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress

The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an "American Founding Father." But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.



Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers
# of Founding Fathers | % of Founding Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican: 88 | 54.7%
Presbyterian: 30 | 18.6%
Congregationalist: 27 | 16.8%
Quaker: 7 | 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed: 6 | 3.7%
Lutheran: 5 | 3.1%
Catholic: 3 | 1.9%
Huguenot: 3 | 1.9%
Unitarian: 3 | 1.9%
Methodist: 2 | 1.2%
Calvinist: 1 | 0.6%
TOTAL: 204

FINeous laughus
07-17-2007, 11:03 AM
I think before you go to the web sites of those destined for Hell and want to drag you there with them, you may actually want to read and understand what you copy and paste. Thomas Jeffersons biggest beef was against organized religion as was Washington's, not God himself. Most these quotes were clipped out of larger quotes by bed wetting atheists to scratch and claw for something to prove their point, and without the rest of the text you can easily BE LEAD to take the smaller text way out of context.

Stitches
07-17-2007, 11:15 AM
I think before you go to the web sites of those destined for Hell and want to drag you there with them, you may actually want to read and understand what you copy and paste. Thomas Jeffersons biggest beef was against organized religion as was Washington's, not God himself. Most these quotes were clipped out of larger quotes by bed wetting atheists to scratch and claw for something to prove their point, and without the rest of the text you can easily BE LEAD to take the smaller text way out of context.

Why would anyone be destined for hell, when you can always repent?

Not to mention, why would anyone try and bring you along with them to hell through a website of quotes? Wouldn't there be a better method?

And any Athiests who clip out quotes are all bed wetters now? Seems a bit presumptuous to me.

Sponge
07-17-2007, 11:17 AM
I think before you go to the web sites of those destined for Hell and want to drag you there with them, you may actually want to read and understand what you copy and paste. Thomas Jeffersons biggest beef was against organized religion as was Washington's, not God himself. Most these quotes were clipped out of larger quotes by bed wetting atheists to scratch and claw for something to prove their point, and without the rest of the text you can easily BE LEAD to take the smaller text way out of context.

Funniest post of the day. Atheism leads to bed-wetting, I didn't know that before but it makes so much sense when you really think about it.

Stitches
07-17-2007, 11:19 AM
Funniest post of the day. Atheism leads to bed-wetting, I didn't know that before but it makes so much sense when you really think about it.

Better scotch guard my bed I guess, and wear one of those rubber suits at night.

Pagan
07-17-2007, 11:36 AM
I think before you go to the web sites of those destined for Hell and want to drag you there with them, you may actually want to read and understand what you copy and paste. Thomas Jeffersons biggest beef was against organized religion as was Washington's, not God himself. Most these quotes were clipped out of larger quotes by bed wetting atheists to scratch and claw for something to prove their point, and without the rest of the text you can easily BE LEAD to take the smaller text way out of context.
Because of course, Christians never do the same thing to get THEIR point across....oh no....:lol:

Miamian
07-17-2007, 12:06 PM
But......that doesnt mean they werent religious - or men of FAITH:

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html




Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers
# of Founding Fathers | % of Founding Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican: 88 | 54.7%
Presbyterian: 30 | 18.6%
Congregationalist: 27 | 16.8%
Quaker: 7 | 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed: 6 | 3.7%
Lutheran: 5 | 3.1%
Catholic: 3 | 1.9%
Huguenot: 3 | 1.9%
Unitarian: 3 | 1.9%
Methodist: 2 | 1.2%
Calvinist: 1 | 0.6%
TOTAL: 204The article makes a point that the signers were members of various churches, but that it was economically advantageous. It especially focuses on Washington's position as a Vestryman, even though he was a Deist.

Quelonio
07-17-2007, 01:26 PM
why don't we do things the free mason way when it is clear they where freemasons?

Dolphin39
07-17-2007, 04:15 PM
I think before you go to the web sites of those destined for Hell and want to drag you there with them, you may actually want to read and understand what you copy and paste. Thomas Jeffersons biggest beef was against organized religion as was Washington's, not God himself. Most these quotes were clipped out of larger quotes by bed wetting atheists to scratch and claw for something to prove their point, and without the rest of the text you can easily BE LEAD to take the smaller text way out of context.

Yep. :goodpost::yeahthat:

DolfinDave
07-17-2007, 06:03 PM
I think reguardless of what sect or denomination some of the founders were, they realized the importance of keeping church and state seperate entities. And many of these guys were deists, including guys like James Madison who was very instrumental in writing and influencing laws and the very foundation of our gov't. If they were alive today, I would imgaine they would say have your religion, whatever that may be. But respect the choices of others to have theirs and don't try to dictate policy simply based on what your specific religious doctrine says.

Pagan
07-17-2007, 10:41 PM
Yep. :goodpost::yeahthat:
Gee...what a surprise. :lol:

Mike13
07-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Why would anyone be destined for hell, when you can always repent?

Don't tell Fred Phelps that.

ih8brady
07-20-2007, 12:05 AM
The Tripoli Treaty, signed and passed by the John Adams(the conservative rival of Jefferson) , blantantly states the falsity of this Christian Nation claim.

"Article 11:As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

In the late 18th century, there were many Chistendoms throughout Europe and the framers could have easily followed suit. They did not, however, because this is a country founded on Enlightenment ideals and not religiosity.

DolfinDave
07-20-2007, 12:37 AM
The Tripoli Treaty, signed and passed by the John Adams(the conservative rival of Jefferson) , blantantly states the falsity of this Christian Nation claim.

"Article 11:As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

In the late 18th century, there were many Chistendoms throughout Europe and the framers could have easily followed suit. They did not, however, because this is a country founded on Enlightenment ideals and not religiosity.

That's pretty interesting stuff. Thanks for the heads up. Do you happen to know what context this was signed?

PhinPhan1227
07-20-2007, 02:20 AM
The Tripoli Treaty, signed and passed by the John Adams(the conservative rival of Jefferson) , blantantly states the falsity of this Christian Nation claim.

"Article 11:As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

In the late 18th century, there were many Chistendoms throughout Europe and the framers could have easily followed suit. They did not, however, because this is a country founded on Enlightenment ideals and not religiosity.


Dude, John Adams was a lawyer. Everyone knows that all lawyers are godless heathens. :evil: (who loves ya Jimmy?:wink:)

Now, that being said, Adams was being diplomatic in dealing with a Muslim nation. He was trying to stress that our actions against the Barbary Pirates were not a redo of the Crusades, but the act of a lawful nation.