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View Full Version : Kc Joyner on Green and Losman.....



evans555
07-27-2007, 02:42 PM
This is from KC Joyner's article on overrated and underrated QB's....I KNOW YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO POST WHOLE ARTICLES BUT ITS INSIDER SO MANY PEOPLE WONT BE ABLE TO VIEW


Here's the link:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid..._kc&id=2947314 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=2947314)

The whole article is as follows,

Quarterbacks are the subject of this week's installment of overrated and underrated players. No position in the league is more celebrated or criticized, so emotions tend to run high when putting together quarterback ratings.
I try to take as much emotion out of the equation as possible by focusing my analysis on five main metrics: Yards per attempt, success percentage, SYPA, bad-decision percentage and weighted bad-decision percentage. These metrics cover just about every positive and negative a quarterback could bring to his team

Sorry.Due to copyright issues only the public portion of the insiders column is allowed to be posted on this MB.

PhinzN703
07-27-2007, 02:50 PM
This is a new year. I don't see what him playing in KC has to do with us in 2007. Let the talking heads speak all they want, positive or negative

feelthepain
07-27-2007, 02:52 PM
To see Philip Rivers at 14-2 overrated, and JP Losman 7-9 underrated is just to funny.

jdang307
07-27-2007, 02:58 PM
To see Philip Rivers at 14-2 overrated, and JP Losman 7-9 underrated is just to funny.
That's not the point. The point is, was Rivers given too much credit for the 14-2 record? He was horrible against the blitz late in the season. With Losman, nobody thinks he is good, think he sucks actually, and KC is saying his deep bombs show he is a bit underrated. KC isn't saying he is the best or really good, just better than people are rating him.

I still think KC is smoking something, but I agree with him on Rivers.

Sphinx002
07-27-2007, 02:58 PM
First: :wrongforum:

Second: :bs:

Third::loser:

jdang307
07-27-2007, 03:02 PM
Wrong forum? Trent green isn't a dolphin?

tay0365
07-27-2007, 03:02 PM
Green is still a better QB then Losman, and if you look at talent/potensiel on how good a young QB will be if he reaches it, Beck is going to be better then Losman also.

calphin
07-27-2007, 03:03 PM
To see Philip Rivers at 14-2 overrated, and JP Losman 7-9 underrated is just to funny.




Which leads me to believe that someone is a Bills fan:goof:

tay0365
07-27-2007, 03:04 PM
First: :wrongforum:

Second: :bs:

Third::loser:

You said it all.

JTBRLZ
07-27-2007, 03:04 PM
I love Losman, but his long ball numbers had a lot more to do with Lee Evans.

Sphinx002
07-27-2007, 03:07 PM
Wrong forum? Trent green isn't a dolphin?

He's a Bills homer being a troll here as he often does...yeah wrong forum, take that crap and his opinions back to Buffalo.

SF Dolfan
07-27-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't think its a bad article and at least Joyner has some sort of method for his assessments. I agree with all the overrateds more or less. I think Rivers is good, but no way he should have made the Pro Bowl over Brady. San Diego really had to reign in the offense for him compared to Brees and their passing game was much more conservative. Don't get me wrong, he's good, but that line and LT and Gates certainly don't hurt. He's in a good spot.

Trent Green gets a bit of a bum deal since he only uses last years numbers. Trent has long been one of the most underappreciated players in the whole league. Still, its too early to say how much Green has left. I hope its a lot, but its not a guarantee.

Farve and Kitna are definiteyl overrated imo, though I think Kitna has a heck of a fantasy fb year this season lol.

As for the underrateds, I can't see how Romo is underrated. No doubt he played some great games, especially early, but he's yet to be a starter for a full season and he gets alot of press.

Also, as much as I hate to say it, Losman really started to come around last year. He looks like he could be a player... aarghh!

feelthepain
07-27-2007, 03:13 PM
That's not the point. The point is, was Rivers given too much credit for the 14-2 record? He was horrible against the blitz late in the season. With Losman, nobody thinks he is good, think he sucks actually, and KC is saying his deep bombs show he is a bit underrated. KC isn't saying he is the best or really good, just better than people are rating him.

I still think KC is smoking something, but I agree with him on Rivers.

So you're saying game management and ball distribution isn't nearly as important as throwing the ball deep to someone who outran the defense? I see.....:rolleyes:

SF Dolfan
07-27-2007, 03:13 PM
He's a Bills homer being a troll here as he often does...yeah wrong forum, take that crap and his opinions back to Buffalo.

I hear you on the sentiments, but its an article w/ Trent Green in it as well as other QB's so regardless, its Dolphins content.

Also, Joyner isn't necessarily saying anyone is better than anyone else. Some of the overrated guys could be better than the underrated guys.

Superself
07-27-2007, 03:14 PM
I don't think its a bad article and at least Joyner has some sort of method for his assessments. I agree with all the overrateds more or less. I think Rivers is good, but no way he should have made the Pro Bowl over Brady. San Diego really had to reign in the offense for him compared to Brees and their passing game was much more conservative. Don't get me wrong, he's good, but that line and LT and Gates certainly don't hurt. He's in a good spot.

Trent Green gets a bit of a bum deal since he only uses last years numbers. Trent has long been one of the most underappreciated players in the whole league. Still, its too early to say how much Green has left. I hope its a lot, but its not a guarantee.

Farve and Kitna are definiteyl overrated imo, though I think Kitna has a heck of a fantasy fb year this season lol.

As for the underrateds, I can't see how Romo is underrated. No doubt he played some great games, especially early, but he's yet to be a starter for a full season and he gets alot of press.

Also, as much as I hate to say it, Losman really started to come around last year. He looks like he could be a player... aarghh!

:goodpost:

tay0365
07-27-2007, 03:14 PM
Which leads me to believe that someone is a Bills fan:goof:

:lol: evans555 (http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/member.php?u=25009) , you know, something does smell funny around here (the smell of Buffalo Dung)...hmmm

SF Dolfan
07-27-2007, 03:18 PM
So you're saying game management and ball distribution isn't nearly as important as throwing the ball deep to someone who outran the defense? I see.....:rolleyes:

The article never says one guy is better than another, it just tries to point out some things that may get overlooked.

I think Rivers is definitely overrated. I like him, he's a good player, but he is not one of the top 3 QB's in the AFC and should not have been a pro bowler. San Diego reigned in their gameplan for him and he was asked to do very little compared to guys like Manning, Palmer, Brady, etc...

evans555
07-27-2007, 03:24 PM
How is this not relivent to the Dolphins :confused:.......and if your saying i'm a homer read the bottom of my original post..it amazes me how so many people post wo thinking :goof:

Sphinx002
07-27-2007, 03:27 PM
How is this not relivent to the Dolphins :confused:.......and if your saying i'm a homer read the bottom of my original post..it amazes me how so many people post wo thinking :goof:

:sidelol: And yep it's been moved ...WRONG FORUM!

SF Dolfan
07-27-2007, 03:31 PM
How is this not relivent to the Dolphins :confused:.......and if your saying i'm a homer read the bottom of my original post..it amazes me how so many people post wo thinking :goof:

I would guess it getting moved has more to do w/ people reporting your post than lack of Dolphin content since there is some. It also wouldnt belong in the east forum imo since half of the posts are about Phillip Rivers.

cnc66
07-27-2007, 03:34 PM
bro, just so you know.. posting a subscription article will get us in trouble faster than any other... essentially, that can be considered stealing private content. I know you are looking out for guys like me that doesn't subscribe, and I appreciate it, and I'm not a mod or anything, just sayin'

I agree with both assesments. The Trent one.. meh, he will, or he won't return to form, I have some confidence in those behind him, but would prefer him to run Cams offense while everyone else learns it.. including his replacement.

On JP... I've always though he would turn out ok, and as much as I can like an opponent, I like him. He's a gunslinger, I like those...cept favray.

feelthepain
07-27-2007, 03:38 PM
JP was up and down the last 8 games of 06. What gave him the appearance of improving over the last 8 games were three games of which he had anywhere from 98 passer rating to 142 passer rating. Whats interesting about those stats is how little he threw the ball. He would only throw the ball about 15- 19 times a games and his yards were near or below 200 yards.

It's almost as if the Bills were trying as hard as they could to keep JP from having a bad game so they gave him the ball as little as possible. He also had several games in his final 8 that were in the mid 60's to 70's for passer rating. I think of all the games he played last year there were only a couple that came near the 300 yard mark. He has minimal skills IMO and he is far from an intelligent QB, he doesn't scare me with his ability to out think his competition. So I'm fine with him being the Bills QB, he can be mediocre till the cows come home and I'll be fine with that.

evans555
07-27-2007, 03:46 PM
I would guess it getting moved has more to do w/ people reporting your post than lack of Dolphin content since there is some. It also wouldnt belong in the east forum imo since half of the posts are about Phillip Rivers.

Ya I hear you, I actually think Green will have a pretty good year...and Brown will have a better one

evans555
07-27-2007, 03:48 PM
JP was up and down the last 8 games of 06. What gave him the appearance of improving over the last 8 games were three games of which he had anywhere from 98 passer rating to 142 passer rating. Whats interesting about those stats is how little he threw the ball. He would only throw the ball about 15- 19 times a games and his yards were near or below 200 yards.

It's almost as if the Bills were trying as hard as they could to keep JP from having a bad game so they gave him the ball as little as possible. He also had several games in his final 8 that were in the mid 60's to 70's for passer rating. I think of all the games he played last year there were only a couple that came near the 300 yard mark. He has minimal skills IMO and he is far from an intelligent QB, he doesn't scare me with his ability to out think his competition. So I'm fine with him being the Bills QB, he can be mediocre till the cows come home and I'll be fine with that.

I see what your saying they "babied" JP...but you have to remember much of that was a product of the weather as the Bills played 4 home games after Thanksgiving at the Ralph which we all know is bad for any QB to throw in.......Look for Fairchild to open up the game much more this season as documente

feelthepain
07-27-2007, 03:51 PM
I see what your saying they "babied" JP...but you have to remember much of that was a product of the weather as the Bills played 4 home games after Thanksgiving at the Ralph which we all know is bad for any QB to throw in.......Look for Fairchild to open up the game much more this season as documente

I'm not the least bit worried about JP, I think If JP were gonna be special in this league we would have seen it by now.

evans555
07-27-2007, 04:08 PM
I'm not the least bit worried about JP, I think If JP were gonna be special in this league we would have seen it by now.

He's going into his SECOND FULL season behind center.......Carson Palmer ring a bell or Aikmen perhaps. Not saying hes gonna end up their caliber but take off the homer glasses and give him another season

Mike13
07-27-2007, 04:26 PM
, I can't see how Romo is underrated. No doubt he played some great games, especially early, but he's yet to be a starter for a full season and he gets alot of press.

Agreed, Romo is definately overrated, hell he can't hold on to a ball for a few seconds.

feelthepain
07-27-2007, 06:52 PM
He's going into his SECOND FULL season behind center.......Carson Palmer ring a bell or Aikmen perhaps. Not saying hes gonna end up their caliber but take off the homer glasses and give him another season


So you're putting Losman in the same class as Aikman and Plamer? I see nothing similar with Aikman and Plamer that I would compare them to JP or JP to them. I think he's getting more credit then he's earned. His third season and only a handful of games worth talking about and he's underrated? Sure he is.

evans555
07-27-2007, 07:48 PM
So you're putting Losman in the same class as Aikman and Plamer? I see nothing similar with Aikman and Plamer that I would compare them to JP or JP to them. I think he's getting more credit then he's earned. His third season and only a handful of games worth talking about and he's underrated? Sure he is.


He's going into his SECOND FULL season behind center.......Carson Palmer ring a bell or Aikmen perhaps. Not saying hes gonna end up their caliber but take off the homer glasses and give him another season


As stated earlier ppl on these boards really need to read and then digest the whole thread

Deep2Evans
07-27-2007, 10:18 PM
and if you look at talent/potensiel on how good a young QB will be if he reaches it, Beck is going to be better then Losman also.


LOL. Based on what?

Brassmonki14120
07-28-2007, 03:10 AM
JP was up and down the last 8 games of 06. What gave him the appearance of improving over the last 8 games were three games of which he had anywhere from 98 passer rating to 142 passer rating. Whats interesting about those stats is how little he threw the ball. He would only throw the ball about 15- 19 times a games and his yards were near or below 200 yards.

It's almost as if the Bills were trying as hard as they could to keep JP from having a bad game so they gave him the ball as little as possible. He also had several games in his final 8 that were in the mid 60's to 70's for passer rating. I think of all the games he played last year there were only a couple that came near the 300 yard mark. He has minimal skills IMO and he is far from an intelligent QB, he doesn't scare me with his ability to out think his competition. So I'm fine with him being the Bills QB, he can be mediocre till the cows come home and I'll be fine with that.

But are you fine with Green being less than mediocre?

Last season Green started in 8 games. In only one of those 8 games (against the Browns) did Green have over 200 yards passing.

In 6 of those 8 games Green had a passer rating lower than 70.

On another note JP's highest passer ratings (140.8 and 142.5) were back to back wins (Weeks 14 an 15) against division rivals New York Jets and Miami Dolphins.

Crisis
07-28-2007, 09:00 AM
So you're putting Losman in the same class as Aikman and Plamer? I see nothing similar with Aikman and Plamer that I would compare them to JP or JP to them. I think he's getting more credit then he's earned. His third season and only a handful of games worth talking about and he's underrated? Sure he is.

Aren't you the guy that argued Culpepper > Brady?

Iroquois Joe
07-28-2007, 12:37 PM
I love Losman, but his long ball numbers had a lot more to do with Lee Evans.

In-so-far as Evens caught them.

Every QB who has an arm and a good ball to go with it has a deep threat or two.

Despite a pourus line and getting leveled more often than not after the toss, or buying time with his movement and scrambling ability, Losman managed to get a mention for the deep ball.

Gee, he's so bad, (even though we love him), he can't possibly take any credit for this feat.

Evans ran his route/Losman got the ball to him. How one has more to do with the other, or how credit is taken one from the other will have to be explained to me.