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Finch83
07-28-2007, 09:16 AM
Pressure on Quinn to rise

Holdout could keep him out all season, then lead to trade in 2008

By Patrick McManamon

Beacon Journal sportswriter

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
AP Photo/Tony Dejak
Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn throws a pass at football mini-camp, Friday, May 4, 2007, in Berea, Ohio.

No. 3 pick should get No. 3 pay (http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/football/nfl/cleveland_browns/17538493.htm)
While Browns rookies practice in Berea this week, quarterback Brady Quinn sits and waits.
Quinn's holdout is only a couple of days long, but it has drawn notice around the league. And if one league insider had his way, Quinn would wait a long, long time if his contract demands are way out of line with the spot in which he was drafted.
Quinn ``doesn't have much (leverage) right now,'' said the insider, who has been involved in contract deals with several big-name players over the years. ``If the Browns are smart, they wouldn't do anything extra special.
``They could always just play the other two quarterbacks, let Quinn go back in the draft, or trade him next year.''
The last thing the Browns want is for Quinn to miss the season because he doesn't sign, but his short holdout has all the appearances of developing into a long one.
Quinn was the free-fall story of draft day, lasting until the Browns traded up out of the second round to draft him with the 22nd pick. He and the Browns talked early about a deal, and his agent, Tom Condon, was in Cleveland over the weekend to talk, but the two sides seem far apart.
Various reports have the Quinn side expecting better than 22nd-pick money, the reasoning being that teams had Quinn rated in the draft's top 10. The Browns always have been careful to say they rated Quinn 22nd, meaning they intend to pay him like the 22nd pick.
Which is where the insider's point of view comes in.
The Browns own the rights to Quinn for one year. If they cannot sign him, he sits out his rookie season and can be drafted in 2008.
In the harshest and worst case of scenarios, the Browns could let Quinn sit, then trade him prior to the 2008 draft and perhaps recoup the first-round draft pick they gave up to get him.
Sitting out clearly would be to Quinn's detriment. And he would be sitting out from the team he has said he grew up dreaming of playing for.
``It could be really hard for him to live with that pressure,'' the insider said.
Some feel the annual draft-pick negotiation game of cat-and-mouse could have been avoided had the Browns phoned Condon on draft day and said they were going to save Quinn from his free fall, but before they would do it they wanted the parameters of a deal in place.
``Five minutes,'' one insider said when asked how long that discussion would have taken. ``They had it in their hands.''
Past QB holdouts
Matt Leinart held out from Arizona last season and had a good rookie season. Heath Shuler held out from Washington after being taken third overall in 1994 and never succeeded. Same with Cade McNown in 1999 in Chicago.
The common thread: All were quarterback clients of Condon, who got Tim Couch signed in Cleveland before he was drafted.
Negotiations have been slow league-wide, and things have not developed quickly with any of the Browns' top three picks: tackle Joe Thomas, Quinn and cornerback Eric Wright.
Thomas could earn $25 million in guaranteed money. Wright is caught in an unusual logjam of second-round players who have not signed.
Quinn, the quarterback from Notre Dame, is the marquee player, and he seems to understand that reality. He now runs the risk, however, of burning some of the goodwill generated when the Browns drafted him.
Autograph signing
News that he was signing autographs for $75 at a North Olmsted mall over the weekend -- first reported by WEWS (Channel 5) -- has been noticed around the league.
``He's more interested in signing autographs for $75 than coming in and playing?'' an insider said. ``He's not looking at the big picture. He could get in and play, and if he does well, the money will come.''
WKYC (Channel 3) quoted Quinn saying he didn't know that money was being charged. That may be true, but people paid, and he signed.
Now Quinn may hold out longer, which means he'll miss valuable training-camp time and valuable time to get himself into the mix for the starting job.
General Manager Phil Savage even conceded that if Quinn wants to be ``in the mix,'' he should be in camp.
Holding out ``is just not worth it,'' said the insider, who suggested the Browns let Quinn miss the season. ``Even if he gets 10 percent more than last year's guy, even if he gets 20 percent more, the mountain that he's created is exponentially more steep. Particularly with his hometown team.
``Who loses in this? The Cleveland fans and (coach) Romeo (Crennel). He has to deal with things on the field.''
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/football/nfl/cleveland_browns/17538520.htm

LtDan
07-28-2007, 09:25 AM
Yeah, that would be the way to show how much you want to play for your hometown team

Smoke
07-28-2007, 10:27 AM
I doubt that happens. It wouldn't be a very good scenario for Quinn or the Browns. It may take a while but I think they'll get a deal done.

retired opfinistic
07-28-2007, 10:42 AM
They've got to get it done. Hometown hero? :lmao:

NYPhinFan
07-28-2007, 10:51 AM
I will bet EVERY dollar I have ever made in my life and EVERY dollar I will make that somewhere along the way..Quinn signs with the Browns...holdout for a little maybe..but of course the deal WILL be done.

Crypt Keeper
07-28-2007, 10:59 AM
The Browns will sign Quinn, no doubt about it. Remember when PFT suggested Ronnie would re-enter the draft:


POSTED 10:12 a.m. EDT, August 7, 2005
FINS DON'T WANT TO PAY BROWN LIKE NO. 2


The top five spots in the draft are getting too damn complicated. Last year, No. 4 wanted to be paid like No. 1, but was paid like No. 2. So this year's No. 4 wants to be paid like No. 2, and the team that drafted No. 2 doesn't want to pay the guy at No. 2 like No. 2, which will make it harder for No. 3 to get paid like No. 3.


Confused? We sure the hell are.


Word is that a big part of the impasse between the Dolphins and running back Ronnie Brown, the second overall selection in the draft, is that the team doesn't want to invest the kind of money in Brown that being the No. 2 overall pick typically entails.


Conventional wisdom is that the agents for No. 3 pick Braylon Edwards, Lamont Smith and Peter Schaffer, are waiting for Brown and the Fins to work out a contract before reaching a deal with the Browns. The danger in delaying, however, is that if the Fins cram a below-position deal down Todd France's throat for Brown, the Browns will have a reasonable basis for putting the squeeze on Edwards.


Behind both of them is running back Cedric Benson, whose agent is trying to parlay last year's trade of No. 4 overall pick Philip Rivers to the team with the No. 1 pick into the kind of deal that Rivers was able to muster from the four hole.


The whole thing makes us even more convinced that compensation for rookies taken in round one needs to be specific -- and it needs to be reduced. From the Dolphins' perspective, the prospect of paying a $20 million signing bonus to an unproven tailback makes little sense, given that the market for half backs is way, way down right now, with the high-end guys getting five-year deals in the range of $25 million for the total package.


In hindsight, the folks in Miami are probably realizing that they could have had Edgerrin James or Shaun Alexander for far less money -- and for as low as a third-round draft pick in trade.


And if quarterbacks taken in the round one can claim that they should get more than the slot otherwise would indicate because of the position they play, the depressed running back market should in turn drive down the price paid for first-round tailbacks.


The irony here is that teams like the Fins, Bears, and Bucs paid little or no attention to the boatload of backs available in free agency because they knew that they could address their needs in round one of the draft. The problem, as Miami and Chicago are now learning, is that the financial commitment for a tailback taken in the top five is too great, especially for guys who has proven nothing in the NFL.


The fact that this year's crop of blue chippers wasn't nearly as strong as in past years serves further to highlight the problem of paying guys millions based merely on draft order. Though it's easy to argue that the Fins shouldn't have drafted Brown, who else were they going to select? As the Nicktator noted prior to the draft, there were no Julius Peppers in this pool, no freaks of nature who commanded to be taken high. So the depth chart controlled and, as of April, Miami's greatest need was at tailback.


Although the Dolphins might now be tempted to not sign Brown at all and let him re-enter the draft next year, especially since Ricky Williams is back and looking as good as ever, the stigma of letting a top-five pick go because of the money he wanted would be too great. It would have been far better, in our opinion, for Miami to consciously and deliberately allow the 15-minute selection period on draft day to expire, waiting until a couple of the high-end running backs were gone before jumping on the one that was left over.


Given that the Bears would have still taken Benson and the Bucs likely would have went with Williams, Miami could have fallen out of the top five and still gotten the guy they took at No. 2.


And they could have signed him for a lot less money.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/8-1-05through8-15-05.htm

RunGinnRunTD
07-28-2007, 11:43 AM
All while Quinn stated "It's not about the money" twice in the draft when asked about how he thinks this will effect his contract. He's nothing more than the next joey harrington.

DonShula84
07-28-2007, 02:46 PM
I read on a Browns msg board that the autograph signing money went to charity. Not sure if it's true.

Mike13
07-28-2007, 03:48 PM
He's only hurting himself.

adamprez2003
07-28-2007, 04:35 PM
All while Quinn stated "It's not about the money" twice in the draft when asked about how he thinks this will effect his contract. He's nothing more than the next joey harrington.

Harrington will have a better career than Quinn. Quinn is the next Heath Shuler

MikeO
07-28-2007, 04:39 PM
WOn't happen. Quinn will be playing by midseason as well. Watch and see.

The HAVE to justifty giving up that 1st round pick next year

adamprez2003
07-28-2007, 07:06 PM
Charlie Frye was a 2nd rounder and I think he'll come into his own this year. I think the best move we made this year was passing on Quinn, even though the fans were screaming to get him. My view of Mueller's abilities was greatly increased after that

Smoke
07-29-2007, 01:01 PM
Charlie Frye was a 2nd rounder and I think he'll come into his own this year. I think the best move we made this year was passing on Quinn, even though the fans were screaming to get him. My view of Mueller's abilities was greatly increased after that

Frye was a 3rd round pick in the 05' draft.

Why are you so down on Quinn?

VT Dolphan
07-29-2007, 02:48 PM
Can't say I'm surprised at all. A generally consensus top five player pre-draft falls all the way to the bottom of the first round for seemingly no real reason. Of course he is going to want more money than your typical 22nd pick. I'm not so sure this issue gets resolved anytime soon. I would be surprised if he re-enters the draft, but right now I could see him holding out for the majority of the season and eventually getting traded. He says playing for the Browns is his lifelong dream, but I'd be willing to bet he'd rather be rich somewhere else then get paid like the 22nd pick in Cleveland.

adamprez2003
07-29-2007, 02:58 PM
Frye was a 3rd round pick in the 05' draft.

Why are you so down on Quinn?

I think his game falls apart to easily when under pressure. If he played for Arizona State instead of Notre Dame he never wouldve been hyped as much. I think alot of people think that because he played for Charlie Weiss he's automatically going to be a QB guru but I think he simply doesnt have the stuff, mental or physical, to succeed on the next level

ChambersWI
07-29-2007, 06:18 PM
I read on a Browns msg board that the autograph signing money went to charity. Not sure if it's true.

I don't really buy that. He could've made a lot for charity by making the autographs cost a lot less. Simple autographs aren't worth $75, even if it's for charity.

#1dolphinsfan
07-30-2007, 12:45 AM
He will stay a brown

PhinFan0202
07-30-2007, 01:29 AM
He's not going to miss the season. He will hold out for like a week or two and then sign a deal that's somewhere in the middle between what he's looking for and what the Browns want to pay him. Personally i think he should take the 22nd pick money and if he's as good as he thinks he is he will get paid more just through playing well.

HysterikiLL
07-30-2007, 01:42 AM
I read on a Browns msg board that the autograph signing money went to charity. Not sure if it's true.

Is Charity his girlfriends name? :wink:

HysterikiLL
07-30-2007, 01:55 AM
He's not going to miss the season. He will hold out for like a week or two and then sign a deal that's somewhere in the middle between what he's looking for and what the Browns want to pay him. Personally i think he should take the 22nd pick money and if he's as good as he thinks he is he will get paid more just through playing well.

I agree. I really don't think there should be a problem. It should be a base contract of 22nd pick value, but loaded with incentives. He's been brought in as the potential franchise QB, so the Browns shouldn't be afraid of loading his contract with performance based incentives.

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 02:53 AM
I don't really buy that. He could've made a lot for charity by making the autographs cost a lot less. Simple autographs aren't worth $75, even if it's for charity.


You can buy autographs for less but a charity would charge more because the idea is you're willing to pay more because it's going to charity. Why do you think people overpay at a charity auction? I've read on several boards that the money was being donated to charity and that the promoters did a bad job in not making it known that people couldnt bring their own stuff to get signed. Like I said before I have no idea if the charity thing is real, though the bad promotion certainly is.

PhinFan0202
07-30-2007, 03:54 AM
I agree. I really don't think there should be a problem. It should be a base contract of 22nd pick value, but loaded with incentives. He's been brought in as the potential franchise QB, so the Browns shouldn't be afraid of loading his contract with performance based incentives.

If he's really the next Tom Brady like he thinks he is he's going to get a new contract when they sign him long term anyway. A contract that far exceeds what he would get for 22nd pick.

SpurzN703
07-30-2007, 10:15 AM
I will bet EVERY dollar I have ever made in my life and EVERY dollar I will make that somewhere along the way..Quinn signs with the Browns...holdout for a little maybe..but of course the deal WILL be done.

Yeah, Cleveland will cave and the pretty boy will get his money. :)

Smoke
07-30-2007, 10:32 AM
Yeah, Cleveland will cave and the pretty boy will get his money. :)

I think Quinn will cave and the Browns will get their QB for #22 money. There's no reason for the Browns to overpay him.

Vertical Limit
07-30-2007, 11:32 AM
He's getting 22 overall pick money whether he likes it or not. He will be the last 1st round rookie signed, and once he is completely bracketed, he will cave.

sn9ke.eyes
07-30-2007, 11:42 AM
I just wonder how often these hold outs work. I mean how much extra money do they wind up getting by holding out ?

SpurzN703
07-30-2007, 11:44 AM
I think Quinn will cave and the Browns will get their QB for #22 money. There's no reason for the Browns to overpay him.

I hope he gets paid #22 pick money but I don't think it'll happen. Just have a hunch is all

late again
07-30-2007, 11:52 AM
I don't really buy that. He could've made a lot for charity by making the autographs cost a lot less. Simple autographs aren't worth $75, even if it's for charity.

For the purpose of clarity, he was autographing sports items; footballs, jerseys, etc. If I recall correctly, prices ranged from 75.00 to 225.00.

Greatness920
07-30-2007, 11:55 AM
brady is screweed joe thomas is alrey signed so hes gonna get what the browns choose to give him and now hes gonna lose out on training camp.... better for the dolphins backing up their decision to take beck

late again
07-30-2007, 12:14 PM
brady is screweed joe thomas is alrey signed so hes gonna get what the browns choose to give him and now hes gonna lose out on training camp.... better for the dolphins backing up their decision to take beck

No, Quinn isn't screwed. The Browns are the ones getting screwed.

SamTodd
07-30-2007, 12:39 PM
this is what is wrong with sports today. what a jackass, i hope he has to re enter the draft again, and get passed up all over again. what a sissyass He was claiming how he wanted to be the starting QB, its obvious he doesn't care.

i'm so glad we didn't draft him, and i feel bad for the browns fans. first tim couch era, now this douche. I think Frye might end up being a solid starter anyhow.

If i were to be drafted i'd tell my agent get me in there on time or you're fired, seriously, Do your job or go home!!

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 03:20 PM
this is what is wrong with sports today. what a jackass, i hope he has to re enter the draft again, and get passed up all over again. what a sissyass He was claiming how he wanted to be the starting QB, its obvious he doesn't care.

i'm so glad we didn't draft him, and i feel bad for the browns fans. first tim couch era, now this douche. I think Frye might end up being a solid starter anyhow.

If i were to be drafted i'd tell my agent get me in there on time or you're fired, seriously, Do your job or go home!!


Did you feel that way when Ronnie Brown held out? And the agents job is to get his client the most money, getting into camp on time is secondary.

JayMang
07-30-2007, 03:28 PM
He'll play this year...but he'll just sit in the Commish's green room until the deal gets done.

Dolphreak
07-30-2007, 07:38 PM
Man, I'm so glad we don't have this kid... Somebody needs to remind this idiot that he was #22 in the draft, NOT #2, and isn't worth $42mill. Even if he were #2, I don't agree with unproven rookie QBs thinking they deserve the kind of contracts that some of them get, only to flop.

Anyhow, here's a link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/07/30/browns.quinn.ap/index.html?eref=si_nfl

bullseyeguy
07-30-2007, 07:47 PM
I cant believe he still has Condon as his agent after the draft day free fall...IMO, this is more a case of his agent trying to save some face after clearly not doing his job before the draft...

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 08:56 PM
Where are you getting the idea that Quinn expects 42 mill?

UGAxFIN
07-30-2007, 09:34 PM
i assume its because thomas got 42mil

rafael
07-30-2007, 10:00 PM
I don't know if Miami would have had as much trouble signing Quinn b/c he would have been a top 10 pick. The problem is so much pre-draft hype had him projected to go in the top 10 and now he thinks he's entitled to top 10 money. IMO he went about where I had him rated (I had him between 25 - 32). It appears most of the NFL did not have him rated as a top 10 player either. Hopefully, somebody will send him and his agent a memo that reminds them that he was taken at 22.

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 10:45 PM
He isnt asking for top 10 money. That has never been anything more than a rumor that hasnt been support by anything I've read from the Browns or his agent. You also have to take into account his agent using what they traded to move up to try and get him more money then a tradition 23rd pick would get.

Perfect23
07-30-2007, 11:16 PM
damn 42 million he probally bought like a big huge house and nice *** car before he got drafted

utahphinsfan
07-30-2007, 11:18 PM
The problem is so much pre-draft hype had him projected to go in the top 10 and now he thinks he's entitled to top 10 money. Hopefully, somebody will send him and his agent a memo that reminds them that he was taken at 22.

He's a prima donna. Don't forget Cleveland traded up to get him.

He's lucky IMO he went before Beck & Kolb who are & will be better QB's.

Perfect23
07-30-2007, 11:20 PM
He's a prima donna. Don't forget Cleveland traded up to get him.

He's lucky IMO he went before Beck & Kolb who are & will be better QB's.

not sure about Kolb

Alex44
07-30-2007, 11:23 PM
He isnt asking for top 10 money. That has never been anything more than a rumor that hasnt been support by anything I've read from the Browns or his agent. You also have to take into account his agent using what they traded to move up to try and get him more money then a tradition 23rd pick would get.


They traded a first rounder to get into the first round and pick him. You can't assume that the first rounder would be any higher or lower than this one was.

Then I forget what the other picks were, but factor them in and I think he should get somewhere between 17th and 23rd overall money for a QB.

#1dolphinsfan
07-30-2007, 11:23 PM
he wants to get paid like he was the number one pick

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 11:27 PM
he wants to get paid like he was the number one pick

You cant just make crap up and pretend it's a fact.

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 11:28 PM
They traded a first rounder to get into the first round and pick him. You can't assume that the first rounder would be any higher or lower than this one was.

Then I forget what the other picks were, but factor them in and I think he should get somewhere between 17th and 23rd overall money for a QB.


It's the Browns, it's a pretty safe assumption that the pick would have been higher than 22. And the other pick was a second rounder.

Alex44
07-30-2007, 11:29 PM
It's the Browns, it's a pretty safe assumption that the pick would have been higher than 22. And the other pick was a second rounder.

You can't assume that though, it's unfair to the Browns to do so. Especially in the NFL where a few minor moves can take you from the bottom half of the league to the top half of the league.

DonShula84
07-30-2007, 11:35 PM
You can't assume that though, it's unfair to the Browns to do so. Especially in the NFL where a few minor moves can take you from the bottom half of the league to the top half of the league.

Whether it's unfair to the Browns for me to assume it or not isnt an issue, it's just being realistic. They're a crap team and they have been for a while, they didnt expect to suddenly be in the playoffs lets be honest. The history of that franchise supports the idea that that pick was going to be closer to the top 10 then the mid 20s. Throw in the 2nd rounder they gave up also and his agent has to be using this to try and squeeze more money out of them then the 22nd pick would usually get.

Perfect23
07-30-2007, 11:37 PM
You cant just make crap up and pretend it's a fact.

:thumbup:

NativeFloridian
07-30-2007, 11:50 PM
quinn is stupid just get a couple million and get signed before u arent able to play

Roman529
07-31-2007, 12:46 AM
Quinn might just have to accept humble pie and hope he can get it done on the field so he can get a nice 2nd contract sometime down the road. If I were the Browns I would only pay him the big $$$ by building a ton of incentives and bonuses into his contract based on performance.

Brown42000
07-31-2007, 01:09 AM
I don't if it has to do with him as much as it does his agent who is known for having his clients holdout and always try to get them more money then what they deserve.

rafael
07-31-2007, 01:43 AM
He's a prima donna. Don't forget Cleveland traded up to get him.

He's lucky IMO he went before Beck & Kolb who are & will be better QB's.

I had Quinn rated above Kolb but not above Beck.

NativeFloridian
07-31-2007, 10:17 AM
lol quinn is going to end up not playing!

PhinFan0202
07-31-2007, 11:11 AM
They traded a first rounder to get into the first round and pick him. You can't assume that the first rounder would be any higher or lower than this one was.

Then I forget what the other picks were, but factor them in and I think he should get somewhere between 17th and 23rd overall money for a QB.


Yes you can assume that the first rounder will be higher, it's the Cleavland Browns! When have they not picked in the top 10 since they came back into the leauge? They had one good year when they made the playoffs and since than have had a top 10 pick every year.

binky
07-31-2007, 11:50 AM
You can bet Mr. Agent is getting a fat % of what Quinn signs for.

It's so lame that Quinn is starting his career with the image of a prima donna. That's how you gain the respect of your teammates.

SamTodd
07-31-2007, 12:04 PM
Did you feel that way when Ronnie Brown held out? And the agents job is to get his client the most money, getting into camp on time is secondary.
Yes i did i was mega pissed. Its just plain stupid to hold out. especially when you claim to not be about the money and want to compete for the starting job... Ronnies situation wasn't as bad, as he was just a runningback, and we had sammy morris and ricky williams..Look what happened to Jason allen, he held out and never caught back up and he is still sucking.

satz
07-31-2007, 01:03 PM
If he's really the next Tom Brady like he thinks he is he's going to get a new contract when they sign him long term anyway. A contract that far exceeds what he would get for 22nd pick.
SOmeone tell him tom brady made 298,000 when he won his first SB and less than million on his 2n SB win,

Alex44
07-31-2007, 01:09 PM
Yes you can assume that the first rounder will be higher, it's the Cleavland Browns! When have they not picked in the top 10 since they came back into the leauge? They had one good year when they made the playoffs and since than have had a top 10 pick every year.

No you can't.

Do I think it will be higher than 23rd? Yeah I do, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say it is a stone fact and ask to get paid like it was.