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2413fanphins
01-24-2008, 11:50 PM
Just was thinking about how the draft is going to go this year..

bear with me, and for the sake of conversation we are going to disregard FA and just deal with the draft.

Here is my first pondering thought.
QB....


There has been talk on here about drafting qb's.. My thoughts are that if we are giving up on beck already... why not just spend the first pick on matt ryan. I do like flacco..(haven't seen a ton), but have seen some glimpses.
but he would be a second round pick. that would make two years in a row we take a qb in the second round.

What is cleo's status... can we get rid of this dude or what. I can't see what role he has if we are trying to bring trent green back as per what palmbeachpost describes.

I am thinking the draft hinges on our QB plans. I can't see us taking another qb in later rounds and sticking with beck.

I like beck. he didn't play well, and I argue with ppl on a consistent basis about his play in his starts last year, but we have an investment in him. If we forego that, I say we have to take the closest thing to a sure bet, and imo... right now it's matt ryan.

I would like to trade down but again... just taking a qb angle on it.

Anybody think it hinges on some other position????

Would love to hear some thoughts on this. What do you guys think???

rev kev
01-24-2008, 11:58 PM
You are sooooooo dead.... :)

2413fanphins
01-25-2008, 12:02 AM
thats the kind of insight I was looking for...

and in classic finheaven fashion...

looks like its time to pony up for the VIP membership.

OneHondo
01-25-2008, 12:23 AM
This is one of the most important drafts the Dolphins have ever had IMO. Its so few times that any team has the no#1 overall pick in the draft and the Dolphins have gotten into the trouble they're in now because of Bad drafts. I would think that in the effort to turn this franchise around that this first pick must be a bonafide starter and not a bust or a project player. Ireland and Parcells must know how critical this pick is and will try and get an impact player or a trade down if possible. Our biggest hope would be that someone will really covet Ryan or McFadden enough to want the first pick.
I would be okay with a QB who will be a franchise QB or an impact defensive player either way. My guess would be they would take a QB in the later rounds if they take one at all. One thing is for sure we are going to probably need another QB on the roster if Lemon is gone.

late again
01-25-2008, 12:27 AM
thats the kind of insight I was looking for...

and in classic finheaven fashion...

looks like its time to pony up for the VIP membership.

Well to be fair the entire player personnel issue (and which position is the highest priority to address) has been discussed ad nauseam in several other threads. Thus, the remark by the Rev. Incidently, in the VIP forum they'll tell you outright not to start a new thread on an issue that is already well represented in several other threads. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. It's just that any feedback you're looking for has already been given in at least one of the threads I'm referring to.

Colorado Dolfan
01-25-2008, 12:28 AM
Just was thinking about how the draft is going to go this year..

bear with me, and for the sake of conversation we are going to disregard FA and just deal with the draft.

Here is my first pondering thought.
QB....


There has been talk on here about drafting qb's.. My thoughts are that if we are giving up on beck already... why not just spend the first pick on matt ryan. I do like flacco..(haven't seen a ton), but have seen some glimpses.
but he would be a second round pick. that would make two years in a row we take a qb in the second round.

What is cleo's status... can we get rid of this dude or what. I can't see what role he has if we are trying to bring trent green back as per what palmbeachpost describes.

I am thinking the draft hinges on our QB plans. I can't see us taking another qb in later rounds and sticking with beck.

I like beck. he didn't play well, and I argue with ppl on a consistent basis about his play in his starts last year, but we have an investment in him. If we forego that, I say we have to take the closest thing to a sure bet, and imo... right now it's matt ryan.

I would like to trade down but again... just taking a qb angle on it.

Anybody think it hinges on some other position????

Would love to hear some thoughts on this. What do you guys think???

I'm just gonna say that Matt Ryan is nowhere near a "sure thing" or worth a #1 overall pick.

Comparing his senior year stats to Becks senior year stats, Ryan:

1) Has a lower completion percentage for the year than our current 2nd round pick (Ryan 59.3%, Beck 69.3%)
2) Has slightly less TDs/Game than our current 2nd round pick (Ryan 2.2 TD/G, Beck 2.4 TD/G)
3) Has slightly less YPG than our current 2nd round pick (Ryan 322 YPG, Beck 324 YPG)
and
4) Has twice as many Ints per game than our current 2nd round pick (Ryan 1.4 Ints/G, Beck .7 Ints/G)

Sure, stats don't tell the whole story, but those particular stats should, at the very least, show that #1 overall would be a pretty hefty reach...

Just my humble opinion.

SgtPhin
01-25-2008, 12:38 AM
I'll answer the easy one first; Cleo is as good as gone. Remember Parcells referred to him as "the other guy" when asked what he thought about Beck and Lemon.

Now, I really don't forsee us taking Ryan at all. I just don't get all warm and fuzzy thinking about him for some reason. I personally don't think he's the best QB available, he's just received the most press. I believe we'll take a QB in the later rounds to try and develop, say Flynn from LSU, for example. I really see us taking an impact defensive player with our 1st pick, whether it's #1 overall or after a trade. I strongly believe that Beck will be our starter this year, but that's just my opinion, nothing based on anything solid. I also don't see us taking J. Long either, I much prefer Clady or Otah. They both have a much higher ceiling than J. Long, who would probably be better suited to RT, because his footwork is just not as good. But, this is all JMHO, so you can ignore everything I said if you feel differently,lol.

swampfox
01-25-2008, 04:24 AM
I get the feeling that we will be looking for immediate impact guys this draft and thay rules out a QB. Parcels took the job and will want to get a "jump" in the win / lose colum next year. I really expect us to go Defense and O Line this draft as those guys will make a much bigger difference in wins next year from day one.

adamprez2003
01-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Just was thinking about how the draft is going to go this year..

bear with me, and for the sake of conversation we are going to disregard FA and just deal with the draft.

Here is my first pondering thought.
QB....


There has been talk on here about drafting qb's.. My thoughts are that if we are giving up on beck already... why not just spend the first pick on matt ryan. I do like flacco..(haven't seen a ton), but have seen some glimpses.
but he would be a second round pick. that would make two years in a row we take a qb in the second round.

What is cleo's status... can we get rid of this dude or what. I can't see what role he has if we are trying to bring trent green back as per what palmbeachpost describes.

I am thinking the draft hinges on our QB plans. I can't see us taking another qb in later rounds and sticking with beck.

I like beck. he didn't play well, and I argue with ppl on a consistent basis about his play in his starts last year, but we have an investment in him. If we forego that, I say we have to take the closest thing to a sure bet, and imo... right now it's matt ryan.

I would like to trade down but again... just taking a qb angle on it.

Anybody think it hinges on some other position????

Would love to hear some thoughts on this. What do you guys think???

My feelings exactly. In a weird way, after watching Flacco during Senior Bowl week, I think I would be more excited if we drafted Flacco. I think his upside is top 5. The problem with drafting Flacco is he has so many holes in his game that he may never be a starter. He's basically an amazing arm that needs to be molded into a QB.

I agree that Matt Ryan is the safest pick and we can draft all of our other needs later in the draft. Matt Ryan will be at least as good as Matt Schaub in a few years and has the potential to be a top 10 QB if things break right

The Confessor
01-25-2008, 11:11 AM
My feelings exactly. In a weird way, after watching Flacco during Senior Bowl week, I think I would be more excited if we drafted Flacco. I think his upside is top 5. The problem with drafting Flacco is he has so many holes in his game that he may never be a starter. He's basically an amazing arm that needs to be molded into a QB.

I agree that Matt Ryan is the safest pick and we can draft all of our other needs later in the draft. Matt Ryan will be at least as good as Matt Schaub in a few years and has the potential to be a top 10 QB if things break right


Is it time for me to chime in here...or not yet? :lol:

Conuficus
01-25-2008, 11:22 AM
I hope you guys realize that Lemon is a FA, we don't have to do anything to get rid of him except not call him. And, if Parcells did refer to him as the "other guy" then we know what that means.LMFAO that is classic Parcells.

Also Flacco will need some serious work to ever be good enough to play. He would need at least one year (and that is if the hand of God touched him) to get his mechanics, footwork etc. to where it needs to be really. No one doubts he's a good prospect, but put him in terms of Kevin Kolb; has some nice qualities but needs some work.

But hey we will see, it is but a matter of time.

adamprez2003
01-25-2008, 11:23 AM
Is it time for me to chime in here...or not yet? :lol: You know AZ that there isnt a QB or who we draft first thread that I can bypass without throwing in my two cents:D Of course by now its about 134578 cents:woot:

Dolfan_Noles
01-25-2008, 12:08 PM
I was in no way impressed with Beck outside of 3 or 4 plays all year, but I don't think that in any way means that we should rule him out. With no weapons around him, he was destined to fall flat on his face this year. People praised him last year (even while bashing us over the whole Brady Quinn fiasco), and he does have a good arm. Jamarcus Russell looked worse than Beck this year with about the same amount of talent, and a much bigger financial investment.

People forget so quickly how guys like Manning (both) and Drew Brees played in their first year or two. It's a huge adjustment playing QB in this league, and I would be very opposed to using another pick on a QB. Especially since it would mean that we could have taken Willis and a guy like Jarrett last year instead of the Ginn/Beck combo.

All that said, it does worry me a bit that he'll be 27 by my count at some point during this season and by the time he does develop he might be 29 or so.

2413fanphins
01-25-2008, 12:10 PM
I guess I should have "safest pick" as well, when referring to picking up ryan with #1. BUT... that was only if we are dead set on taking a QB. Brohm hasn't been impressive at all to me this year. Henne is making up some ground after senior bowl practice... but never at #1. flacco, like I have said b4, I don't know much about him. I like his frame and his arm. It didn't look at first sight that he was quick out of the pocket, and perhaps may be apt to a few more sacks than the next guy.
Woodson,

2413fanphins
01-25-2008, 12:12 PM
where was I before hitting return....

woodson... I don't know. I just don't know if he's going to be good nfl material, or just be average. I certainly don't want another harrington coming here. and again... never ever at 1.

I am worried about becks age as well. Thats why I say if we have to address to qb situation it should be matt ryan. It seems like the only safe pick to me. I watcned him make throws with time, I watched him make throws while scrambling, and even a few scrambling and throwing back across his body.

I don't want to take a qb in later rounds and have two guys to develope.
I hate the waiting game, thats for sure.

Dolfan_Noles
01-25-2008, 12:22 PM
I think Henne is a pretty safe bet in the late rounds. When he was a true freshman, he blew me away with his poise and arm. He's a prototypical pocket passer, but has great NFL size and arm strength. I would be very pleased if we grabbed him in the late rounds.

Matt Ryan was probably the most consistent thing about BC this year, but he was still somewhat inconsistent at the same time. I think he's going to be a solid NFL QB, but there is nothing close to a sure thing at QB in this year's draft. At least not enough to make me think twice about taking a defender if I'm making the selection.

MrEd
01-25-2008, 02:44 PM
Just was thinking about how the draft is going to go this year..

bear with me, and for the sake of conversation we are going to disregard FA and just deal with the draft.

Here is my first pondering thought.
QB....


There has been talk on here about drafting qb's.. My thoughts are that if we are giving up on beck already... why not just spend the first pick on matt ryan. I do like flacco..(haven't seen a ton), but have seen some glimpses.
but he would be a second round pick. that would make two years in a row we take a qb in the second round.

What is cleo's status... can we get rid of this dude or what. I can't see what role he has if we are trying to bring trent green back as per what palmbeachpost describes.

I am thinking the draft hinges on our QB plans. I can't see us taking another qb in later rounds and sticking with beck.

I like beck. he didn't play well, and I argue with ppl on a consistent basis about his play in his starts last year, but we have an investment in him. If we forego that, I say we have to take the closest thing to a sure bet, and imo... right now it's matt ryan.

I would like to trade down but again... just taking a qb angle on it.

Anybody think it hinges on some other position????

Would love to hear some thoughts on this. What do you guys think???


I agree with u 100%. Most people with some common sense would as well.

FinaticalOne
01-25-2008, 02:54 PM
Just was thinking about how the draft is going to go this year..

bear with me, and for the sake of conversation we are going to disregard FA and just deal with the draft.

Here is my first pondering thought.
QB....


There has been talk on here about drafting qb's.. My thoughts are that if we are giving up on beck already... why not just spend the first pick on matt ryan. I do like flacco..(haven't seen a ton), but have seen some glimpses.
but he would be a second round pick. that would make two years in a row we take a qb in the second round.

What is cleo's status... can we get rid of this dude or what. I can't see what role he has if we are trying to bring trent green back as per what palmbeachpost describes.

I am thinking the draft hinges on our QB plans. I can't see us taking another qb in later rounds and sticking with beck.

I like beck. he didn't play well, and I argue with ppl on a consistent basis about his play in his starts last year, but we have an investment in him. If we forego that, I say we have to take the closest thing to a sure bet, and imo... right now it's matt ryan.

I would like to trade down but again... just taking a qb angle on it.

Anybody think it hinges on some other position????

Would love to hear some thoughts on this. What do you guys think???


I understand where you're coming from with this, but I think if we're going to trade down, I'm hoping it's only a few spots so we can pick up Vernon Gholston because I still believe defense should be our first priority and considering the type of defense that Paul P runs; we are going to need a lot of DE/LB hybrids and Gholston is the best in the draft. If by the time the draft arrives and the front office is not sold on Beck; then maybe look at Henne in the 3rd or probably reach with him with our second #2 pick if he has a strong combine, or look at Flacco in the 4th. But I still believe defense has to be addresed first and foremost.

The Confessor
01-25-2008, 02:59 PM
I agree with u 100%. Most people with some common sense would as well.


And I say NO, common sense would mandate we go a direction that is more of a drastic need than QB, especially if that QB is not worthy of a Top 10 pick

If we continue to let offenses rack up 200-300 yards a game on the ground against us, it doesnt matter if we have Daniel Francis Marino, we are gonna be picking in the top 3 again next year..period

We are sooooooo bad that we cant afford to gamble on a player that might not be any better than what we have...and from what I have seen, neither Ryan or Flacco look ANY better than Beck....at this juncture anyways

2413fanphins
01-25-2008, 04:15 PM
I'd have to disagree with you AZfinfanmang... if you don't think ryan would be worthy of a top ten pick. I also am gonna have to disagree with you on your evaluation of beck.

I like beck... let's get that out of the way first. But with his performance last year, even with the circumstances as they were, you can't say you were less impressed with ryan than beck, thats just nuts. IMO

and flacco won't last until the 4th round, to whomever said to take him than. At least from what I have read he is crawling up peoples boards, just after the senior bowl practices. It remains to be seen how he plays in the game, and his combine, but I have heard him as high as the 3rd best, and some people would argue he is second just ahead of henne.

Again... the point of this thread was if we are dead set on QB... we could attack it from another angle, ie... defense if we wanted to.... lets fire up another thread.

JUST MY $.02