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Finole
01-29-2008, 10:32 PM
There's been some debate recently in regards to what is the preferred height and weight for a NT. My understanding is that 6-1 or 6-2 is the optimum height. And 325 is the optimum weight.

With that in mind, purely from the perspective of size, these are the potential NTs coming out this year:

Sedrick Ellis from USC 6-1 308 Round 1
Ahtyba Rubin from Iowa St 6-3 320 Round 4-5
Marcus Harrison from Arkansas 6-3 310 Round 5-6
Maurice Murray from New Mexico St 6-3 334 Round 6-7

Undrafted Free Agents?
Henry Smith from Texas A&M 6-2 316
Corey Clark from Jackson St 6-1 324
Richard Clebert from South Florida 6-0 312
Kory Robertson from Virginia Tech 6-3 335


What do we know about them?
Is there anybody else who should be on this list?

(I left Glenn Dorsey off the list because during the Senior Bowl Mike Mayock said that he would be a better fit in a 4-3 defense, and that Sedrick Ellis would be a better fit in a 3-4 defense.)

albyfinfan
01-29-2008, 11:08 PM
i think we might have a preety good one on our team already,.. paul soliai
but we could always use a backup, but only in rd. 6 or 7 or udfa

zach8111
01-29-2008, 11:10 PM
frank okam texas could play

newlownorder
01-29-2008, 11:11 PM
i'll take okam.

biggtyme13
01-30-2008, 01:17 AM
Give me Ahtyba Ruben for the block please

padre31
01-30-2008, 01:39 AM
Dre Moore from MD?

FinaticalOne
01-30-2008, 08:33 AM
Pat Sims of Auburn by far the best 3-4 NT in the draft. You can view his attributes below in my sig.

The Confessor
01-30-2008, 08:36 AM
First. Funny how far off Mike Mayock continues to be. He is constantly just flat out WRONG. His ideaology was that Ellis is biggre than Dorsey..well, once again.. WRONG.

Dorsey would be a fit cause he can play NT or DE in either the 3-4 or 4-3..

I would also take a LONG look at Red Bryant...

Paul Solai is SOOO raw..and I hate that. If he had played to any of his expectation last year, we wouldnt be looking at Dline soo hard at the #1 overall IMO, although that is where the 2 best players in the draft happen to play. (Chris Long and Dorsey)

sam
01-30-2008, 09:03 AM
Pat Sims of Texas A&M by far the best 3-4 NT in the draft. You can view his attributes below in my sig.

Are you talking about this guy?

Sims, 6-foot-4 and 314 pounds, was named the most valuable defensive player in Auburn's 23-20 overtime victory over Clemson in the Chick-fil-A Bowl.

FinaticalOne
01-30-2008, 09:21 AM
Are you talking about this guy?

Sims, 6-foot-4 and 314 pounds, was named the most valuable defensive player in Auburn's 23-20 overtime victory over Clemson in the Chick-fil-A Bowl.


Yes that is him. My fault, I put the wrong info on him. I am making the correction right now. :up:

sam
01-30-2008, 09:23 AM
frank okam texas could play

In the two games I watched, he got moved on double teams, was slow going laterally, rarely able to get off single blocks to make a tackle, and was surprised to see the guard from Texas A&M actually handle him by himself with no problems.

I will say he played with extra effort in the A&M game, constantly went to other side of the field to help chase down the rb, but from what I can remember, I didn't really see the same effort in the bowl game.

FinaticalOne
01-30-2008, 09:27 AM
I would also take a LONG look at Red Bryant...

:up:He's another bonafide 3-4 nose tackle.

jim1
01-30-2008, 10:24 AM
First. Funny how far off Mike Mayock continues to be. He is constantly just flat out WRONG. His ideaology was that Ellis is biggre than Dorsey..well, once again.. WRONG.

Dorsey would be a fit cause he can play NT or DE in either the 3-4 or 4-3..

I would also take a LONG look at Red Bryant...

Paul Solai is SOOO raw..and I hate that. If he had played to any of his expectation last year, we wouldnt be looking at Dline soo hard at the #1 overall IMO, although that is where the 2 best players in the draft happen to play. (Chris Long and Dorsey)

pat Sims is good, Red Bryant, too. Solai can really move, but he better get it together. I'm still pissed that we dumped Fred Evans, dumb move by Cameron. BTW, Cameron's departure reminds me a little of Saban's in that the more I hear the more that I'm glad that they're gone.

The Confessor
01-30-2008, 11:22 AM
pat Sims is good, Red Bryant, too. Solai can really move, but he better get it together. I'm still pissed that we dumped Fred Evans, dumb move by Cameron. BTW, Cameron's departure reminds me a little of Saban's in that the more I hear the more that I'm glad that they're gone.


Actually, I think Evans got into even more trouble after leaving Miami. If Cam hadnt of axed him, I am pretty sure parcells wouldve;)

Smoke
01-30-2008, 12:02 PM
Besides guys like Dorsey, Ellis, and Okam, here's who I like...


Macus Harrison out of Arkansas intrigues me. Powerful, great leverage, and almost impossible to move. He's got some characther issues though.

Jason Shirley from Fresno state. The guy is huge and a force against the run. Very very strong. Another character issues guy though.

I also like Trevor Laws out of Notre Dame. He lacks ideal size and would probably fit better at DE in the 3-4. The guy is a production beast. He led the Irish with 112 tackles from DT position. Thats amazing!

Smoke
01-30-2008, 12:09 PM
Actually, I think Evans got into even more trouble after leaving Miami. If Cam hadnt of axed him, I am pretty sure parcells wouldve;)

He hasn't been in trouble since leaving Miami. The league just waited until the second half of the season to punish him. It's a shame he got into trouble though. He could've seen some serious playing time this last season with the Fins and they could've used him.

JT-forpresident
01-30-2008, 12:10 PM
dre moore is an animal, but I think he'll go earlier than we would like ( rounds 234 , our 6th for him would be a great thing)

The Confessor
01-30-2008, 12:20 PM
Besides guys like Dorsey, Ellis, and Okam, here's who I like...


Macus Harrison out of Arkansas intrigues me. Powerful, great leverage, and almost impossible to move. He's got some characther issues though.

Jason Shirley from Fresno state. The guy is huge and a force against the run. Very very strong. Another character issues guy though.

I also like Trevor Laws out of Notre Dame. He lacks ideal size and would probably fit better at DE in the 3-4. The guy is a production beast. He led the Irish with 112 tackles from DT position. Thats amazing!

Yeah, I like Jason Shirley IF we are still looking at a DT with the 4-1 and Bryant is off the boards. I think he is one of those guys that could have a VERY productive (Not probowl type but nice) pro career. Always have to leave room on the roster for those types....Darryl Gardner turned into one of "Those types"

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Sedrick Ellis would not be a good nose tackle. In fact, I feel he would be a liability if asked to play the position in the traditional sense.

Glenn Dorsey on the other hand, he can do it all. He is a special special player.

Ellis is not in Dorsey's class. That is the bottom line, regardless of what was said by the those covering Mobile.

Conuficus
01-30-2008, 03:16 PM
Yeah, I like Jason Shirley IF we are still looking at a DT with the 4-1 and Bryant is off the boards. I think he is one of those guys that could have a VERY productive (Not probowl type but nice) pro career. Always have to leave room on the roster for those types....Darryl Gardner turned into one of "Those types"

Shirley would also make a good drinking buddy. The way this guy has acted during his college career will push him further down draft boards than the 4th round.

ChambersWI
01-30-2008, 05:12 PM
Ellis will be a great player, but he's not an ideal NT. He could probably play it, but it takes away from what he does best; attacking. Guys like Red Bryant,Dre Moore,Pat Simms and Frank Okam could probably step in and be NT right away, but there are others out there.

Dorsey could also be a very good NT potentially, but that will be determined come combine.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 05:17 PM
Whether a guy can play the nose is determined by what he does on tape, not what he does at the combine.

Workout numbers are a huge trap. Be careful.

ChambersWI
01-30-2008, 05:20 PM
Whether a guy can play the nose is determined by what he does on tape, not what he does at the combine.

Workout numbers are a huge trap. Be careful.

what I ment by that is how he does in the drills. I personally think he can be a great NT, but I also think it would take away a lot of his talents.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 05:31 PM
I agree. Dorsey as a nose tackle is not a great use of his skills.

That said, the fact that he can anchor against two linemen with no problem one play and blow by them the next is what makes him so unique.

DOC33
01-30-2008, 06:07 PM
Besides guys like Dorsey, Ellis, and Okam, here's who I like...


Macus Harrison out of Arkansas intrigues me. Powerful, great leverage, and almost impossible to move. He's got some characther issues though.

Jason Shirley from Fresno state. The guy is huge and a force against the run. Very very strong. Another character issues guy though.

I also like Trevor Laws out of Notre Dame. He lacks ideal size and would probably fit better at DE in the 3-4. The guy is a production beast. He led the Irish with 112 tackles from DT position. Thats amazing!


Shirley is a major league knuckelhead... no way Parcells' drafts a guy like that he was suspened more than he played the last couple of years.

Harrison has also had off the field issues. Not as bad as Shirley but the odds of him fitting Parcell profile are also pretty slim.

Laws has a great attitude but is really small with limited growth potential

Sims
Rubin
Dre Moore maybe
Kelien Dykes maybe

Bellson
01-31-2008, 12:14 PM
Here's another name to toss into the mix.... Andre Fluellen from FSU!! He's got tremendous talent!!

Some brief facts on him:
He has a dominating interior presence because of his size but is known for his quick burst of speed on his first step...plays with the quickness of a dominant defensive end and the power of a strong defensive tackle...as consistent a player as there is on the Seminoles' roster...plays with a tremendous knowledge of the position that he has gained by playing alongside current NFL players Travis Johnson (Houston Texans) and Brodrick Bunkley (Philadelphia Eagles) who were both first round NFL draft selections...will help the Seminoles interior line form one of the top run and pass defense groups in the ACC in 2007...has started 25 of the last 26 games on the defensive line...started 11 games at the nose guard position, two games at the defensive tackle position in 2006 and 12 games at the defensive tackle position in 2005...begins the 2007 season as the starter at the nose guard position...has 16.5 tackles for minus yardage - the ninth highest total in school history...considered to be one of the top four defensive tackles prospects in college entering the 2007 season...named as the most valuable defensive player and earned the prestigious Hinesman Award as the most dominant player as awarded by the coaching staff during spring practice in 2006...also named the King of 3-on-3 for the defense and the most dependable defensive tackle.

jlfin
01-31-2008, 12:51 PM
[quote=ChambersWI;1062278384]Ellis will be a great player, but he's not an ideal NT. He could probably play it, but it takes away from what he does best; attacking. Guys like Red Bryant,Dre Moore,Pat Simms and Frank Okam could probably step in and be NT right away, but there are others out there.

quote]

The same could have been said about Solai last yr. None of the above names are guaranteed successes at the next level. Solai needs some offseason conditoning, coaching and strength training. It has yet to be determined whether he is a future starter or backup caliber player.
I have to laugh when I see people on other threads make definitive statements about players after their rookie yrs. I have seen similar threads about Beck as well.
It's almost comical.

padre31
01-31-2008, 01:08 PM
Shirley would also make a good drinking buddy. The way this guy has acted during his college career will push him further down draft boards than the 4th round.


I have him coming to Miami with our 7th rd compensatory pick.

But I have to say, he is the type of player who may not be drafted...at all.

Big men like that have a tough time staying good condition, he only played 4 games or so last yr, and has not played since then, if he doesn't keep himself in shape he may not even be picked.

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 01:14 PM
I have him coming to Miami with our 7th rd compensatory pick.

But I have to say, he is the type of player who may not be drafted...at all.

Big men like that have a tough time staying good condition, he only played 4 games or so last yr, and has not played since then, if he doesn't keep himself in shape he may not even be picked.

I wasnt aware of "Character issues" (Such a bland way of saying he was up to no good)... Any links or insight?

Conuficus
01-31-2008, 02:04 PM
I wasnt aware of "Character issues" (Such a bland way of saying he was up to no good)... Any links or insight?

As far as I remember he has had alcohol realted issues at Fresno St. I believe he had a DUI or DWI. Now this is from a while ago, as far as when this was discussed..........i believe it was when everyone was on the chat room that celtkin did up. Ask Boomer.........as for the links I will not lie and say I'm just too dam lazy at this moment.:wink:

blackthought
02-03-2008, 04:45 PM
B. J. Raji would've been first on any NT list but he went back to school. But theirs a chance he hits the supplemental. Thats a guy who reminds me of Wilfork, the best in the biz. Look for him in 2009. I think we find our cornerstone DEs this year and our DT next. After akll it is a process. I hope they adopt the idea of letting the draft dictate to you what you get and not over hype or reach (ala T. Ginn) for a player to fill a roster spot.

MrEd
02-04-2008, 03:07 PM
There's been some debate recently in regards to what is the preferred height and weight for a NT. My understanding is that 6-1 or 6-2 is the optimum height. And 325 is the optimum weight.

With that in mind, purely from the perspective of size, these are the potential NTs coming out this year:

Sedrick Ellis from USC 6-1 308 Round 1
Ahtyba Rubin from Iowa St 6-3 320 Round 4-5
Marcus Harrison from Arkansas 6-3 310 Round 5-6
Maurice Murray from New Mexico St 6-3 334 Round 6-7

Undrafted Free Agents?
Henry Smith from Texas A&M 6-2 316
Corey Clark from Jackson St 6-1 324
Richard Clebert from South Florida 6-0 312
Kory Robertson from Virginia Tech 6-3 335


What do we know about them?
Is there anybody else who should be on this list?

(I left Glenn Dorsey off the list because during the Senior Bowl Mike Mayock said that he would be a better fit in a 4-3 defense, and that Sedrick Ellis would be a better fit in a 3-4 defense.)

isaac sopoaga FA from the 49ers.

Finole
02-04-2008, 09:12 PM
isaac sopoaga FA from the 49ers.

I agree.

Elliott 1
02-04-2008, 10:50 PM
Call me crazy but I want THE BIG FAT SLOB and THE DRUNKEN FOOL.

Shaun Rogers and Jason Shirley are the two most prototypical and talented prospects
for NT in the true 3-4.

Shirley is such an athlete at 330 lbs. that he could play other positions on the line as well. We could probably get him with a 6th.

I don't buy this stuff about him slipping to URFA status. Somebody is going to take a chance on him and draft him. I hope its the Dolphins. Who knows? Maybe he'll grow up.