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View Full Version : Pick whoever agrees to a contract first



Green Phin
01-30-2008, 12:55 PM
The Phins have so many needs that I wouldn't focus on one player. I also think that Jake Long, Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey are at a similar talent level. Thus, if we can't trade the #1 pick, then we should talk to the Longs and Dorsey (add player of your choice) and tell them that whoever agrees to a contract first is the pick. :up:

jim1
01-30-2008, 01:14 PM
The Phins have so many needs that I wouldn't focus on one player. I also think that Jake Long, Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey are at a similar talent level. Thus, if we can't trade the #1 pick, then we should talk to the Longs and Dorsey (add player of your choice) and tell them that whoever agrees to a contract first is the pick. :up:

Not necessarily that, but the Fins will probably get their pick to agree to a reasonable deal if they can't move out of the slot. No player in this draft is worth megabucks and the damage to a team that giving a top pick megabucks can do.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 02:12 PM
I don't agree with the premise of your argument in that Long - Long - Dorsey represent a comparable talent level. In my opinion that could not be farther from the truth. Dorsey is elite. He is a once in a decade or more tackle. Long is real good, but not in that class. And Jake Long can't even be mentioned in the same breath of either. He is a media darling who I anticipate may see his stock drop once the final word is in.

Also, you don't pick the easiest to sign unless they are truly equal and none fills a bigger need. Since that will never happen, a team would never do that. In essence, they only negotiate with more than one guy to keep the one they want in check or to drum up interest in the pick.

I think they would negotiate with Dorsey - Ryan - C.Long - McFadden. That said, McFadden has some real holes in his game, so I could see him drop. (He will light up the 40, so I suppose at least a few teams will ignore his weaknesses.)

jim1
01-30-2008, 02:14 PM
I don't agree with the premise of your argument in that Long - Long - Dorsey represent a comparable talent level. In my opinion that could not be farther from the truth. Dorsey is elite. He is a once in a decade or more tackle. Long is real good, but not in that class. And Jake Long can't even be mentioned in the same breath of either. He is a media darling who I anticipate may see his stock drop once the final word is in.

Also, you don't pick the easiest to sign unless they are truly equal and none fills a bigger need. Since that will never happen, a team would never do that. In essence, they only negotiate with more than one guy to keep the one they want in check or to drum up interest in the pick.

I think they would negotiate with Dorsey - Ryan - C.Long - McFadden. That said, McFadden has some real holes in his game, so I could see him drop. (He will light up the 40, so I suppose at least a few teams will ignore his weaknesses.)

Jake Long beats down opposing DL's. I don't understand your comment about him being a media darling.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 02:20 PM
My opinion is that he has some issues with both strength and lateral movement. In essence I feel he lacks the footwork and lateral movement skills to play well on the left and the natural strength and leverage to play well on the right.


Personally, it appeared more accurate to me that he was beat down by opposing DL's more often than the media gave him credit for.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 02:21 PM
He is a fine player. Someone with good upside. I just would not touch him early in the draft.

MrTree
01-30-2008, 02:21 PM
Jake Long beats down opposing DL's. I don't understand your comment about him being a media darling.


Jake Long projects to be a right tackle in the NFL. I wouldn't be surprised if Clady ends up going ahead of him before it is said and done.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 02:24 PM
I could see both Otah and Clady going before him.

t-dubya
01-30-2008, 02:45 PM
He reminds me a lot of the "can't miss LT" from a few years ago, Robert Gallery...

jim1
01-30-2008, 02:54 PM
Jake Long projects to be a right tackle in the NFL. I wouldn't be surprised if Clady ends up going ahead of him before it is said and done.

We have Carey, who is fine at LT. If I knew that Jake long could be a Pro Bowl caliber RT for 10-15 years, I'll take him at the right price. LT is blind side for a right handed QB, but who ever said that RT isn't important as well. If I recall correctly, Long looked pretty darned good vs. the Gators.

What I would rather do (at least i think so) is trade out of the slot (difficult I know) and pick up Cherilius, Baker, Collins, or Nicks in the 2nd or 3rd. As I've mentioned several times before, I particularly want Cherilius.

Roman529
01-30-2008, 02:56 PM
The Phins have so many needs that I wouldn't focus on one player. I also think that Jake Long, Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey are at a similar talent level. Thus, if we can't trade the #1 pick, then we should talk to the Longs and Dorsey (add player of your choice) and tell them that whoever agrees to a contract first is the pick. :up:

The only problem here is we don't know if Dallas owner Jerry Jones or another team will offer us a nice trade down while we are on the clock. I would not try to sign Long, Dorsey, Ryan or anyone else before we take the full ten minutes on the clock, as we might get a great offer.

MrTree
01-30-2008, 02:56 PM
We have Carey, who is fine at LT. If I knew that Jake long could be a Pro Bowl caliber RT for 10-15 years, I'll take him at the right price. LT is blind side for a right handed QB, but who ever said that RT isn't important as well. If I recall correctly, Long looked pretty darned good vs. the Gators.

What I would rather do (at least i think so) is trade out of the slot (difficult I know) and pick up Cherilius, Baker, Collins, or Nicks in the 2nd or 3rd. As I've mentioned several times before, I particularly want Cherilius.


Lets put it this way. If you "know" Jake Long would be a pro bowl RT for a decade and you "know" Glenn Dorsey will be a pro bowl DT for a decade you take Dorsey ten out of ten times. RT isn't a value position.

I think someone else made the argument pretty well. The original thesis of this argument is invalid as jake Long is not a talent of the level of the other players you mention.

jim1
01-30-2008, 03:24 PM
Lets put it this way. If you "know" Jake Long would be a pro bowl RT for a decade and you "know" Glenn Dorsey will be a pro bowl DT for a decade you take Dorsey ten out of ten times. RT isn't a value position.

I think someone else made the argument pretty well. The original thesis of this argument is invalid as jake Long is not a talent of the level of the other players you mention.

RT isn't a value position? Tell that to a QB dropping back to pass when his RT sucks, or to a RB looking for a hole. Perhaps your thesis is invalid. What defensive positions aren't value positions? Safety? Tell that to the fired Dolphins coaching staff and ask them what they thought of the Safety play, especially Cameron Worrell. Him covering Randy Moss was like a 6th grader covering a college All-American.

This is a tough one, though. To acknowledge your side of the argument, Jake Long isn't Joe Thomas, a dominating LT. And Dorsey is one hell of a player. But what if Dorsey demands a boat load of money and Jake Long doesn't?

Whether it be Jake Long in the 1st, Cherilius in the second, Collins, Baker, Nicks,et al, I wold like to see us firm up the OL. At the end of the day, we have another high pick in a draft which, although deep, doesn't have marquee players worthy of the slot. Jake Long- not a great #1 pick, but I can live with it. Last year I heard blah blah about Joe Thomas being overrated as well- not so much.

MrTree
01-30-2008, 03:43 PM
RT isn't a value position? Tell that to a QB dropping back to pass when his RT sucks, or to a RB looking for a hole. Perhaps your thesis is invalid. What defensive positions aren't value positions? Safety? Tell that to the fired Dolphins coaching staff and ask them what they thought of the Safety play, especially Cameron Worrell. Him covering Randy Moss was like a 6th grader covering a college All-American.

This is a tough one, though. To acknowledge your side of the argument, Jake Long isn't Joe Thomas, a dominating LT. And Dorsey is one hell of a player. But what if Dorsey demands a boat load of money and Jake Long doesn't?

Whether it be Jake Long in the 1st, Cherilius in the second, Collins, Baker, Nicks,et al, I wold like to see us firm up the OL. At the end of the day, we have another high pick in a draft which, although deep, doesn't have marquee players worthy of the slot. Jake Long- not a great #1 pick, but I can live with it. Last year I heard blah blah about Joe Thomas being overrated as well- not so much.


You are confusing a value position with a valuable position. Sure, all positions are valuable. But DT is a MORE valuable position than RT. (Unless you have a left handed qb.) The bigger thing is I think you are overrating Jake Long. There is a pretty big consensus that he represents a drop off in talent from Chris Long and Dorsey. I really mean it when I say that I think Clady could go before him.

The Confessor
01-30-2008, 03:49 PM
Nope.

Both Glenn Dorsey and Chris Long belong in the #1a #1b slot. At this point NOBODY else is even a close second, and in fact the third best player at this point might well be Dan Connor, Kenny Phillips or even Mike Jenkins (Throw in Jonathon Stewart and Rashard Mendenhall if you want)

If it comes down to draft day, and we are still unsettled about taking either Long (C) or Dorsey, I WOULD contact agents and work a pre-draft deal...ala Mario Williams

jim1
01-30-2008, 03:57 PM
You are confusing a value position with a valuable position. Sure, all positions are valuable. But DT is a MORE valuable position than RT. (Unless you have a left handed qb.) The bigger thing is I think you are overrating Jake Long. There is a pretty big consensus that he represents a drop off in talent from Chris Long and Dorsey. I really mean it when I say that I think Clady could go before him.

Let's agree to disagree- I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinions. God save the bunnies, but I wouldn't mind drafting McFadden either. I like RW, but he's somewhat of an unknown as is a rehabbing Ronnie Brown. McFadden is a stud- might as well start out with a stud.

The Confessor
01-30-2008, 04:00 PM
Let's agree to disagree- I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinions. God save the bunnies, but I wouldn't mind drafting McFadden either. I like RW, but he's somewhat of an unknown as is a rehabbing Ronnie Brown. McFadden is a stud- might as well start out with a stud.


Ryan McFadden is an "Awkward" runningback that was used in a gimmick offense in College. He runs upright and is going to be a SERIOUS target at the next level.

We already have one of the top 5 backs in the league, absolutley ZERO reason to venture on a project type that might pan-out, but just as likely will have a short unorthodox Pro career..IMO of course.

MrTree
01-30-2008, 04:02 PM
Let's agree to disagree- I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinions. God save the bunnies, but I wouldn't mind drafting McFadden either. I like RW, but he's somewhat of an unknown as is a rehabbing Ronnie Brown. McFadden is a stud- might as well start out with a stud.


Mcfadden is pure fools gold to me. And I don't mean that to disparage his talents. There's been more than a soupcon of indication that a superior O-line can make a running back. Considering the great depth at the running back position if we are really concerned about it we can get a good back later.

Where I do agree with you is we need to address the o-line. Just not at #1. I would like to get a tackle and at least one if not two guards out of this draft.

jim1
01-30-2008, 04:19 PM
Ryan McFadden is an "Awkward" runningback that was used in a gimmick offense in College. He runs upright and is going to be a SERIOUS target at the next level.

We already have one of the top 5 backs in the league, absolutley ZERO reason to venture on a project type that might pan-out, but just as likely will have a short unorthodox Pro career..IMO of course.

Adrian Peterson was upright, too- he worked out ok. I'll tell you what's awkward- running on a knee that's had an ACL reconstruction- I've been throught that twice. Culpeppers's was far worse, but if you pop it, you pop it. I don't think that you can just assume that RB will be back at full srength from day 1. Or day 100.

Juan Huron
01-30-2008, 04:23 PM
since when does that happen?

The Confessor
01-30-2008, 04:28 PM
Adrian Peterson was upright, too- he worked out ok. I'll tell you what's awkward- running on a knee that's had an ACL reconstruction- I've been throught that twice. Culpeppers's was far worse, but if you pop it, you pop it. I don't think that you can just assume that RB will be back at full srength from day 1. Or day 100.

Thats the thing, Peterson DOESNT run upright. I NEVER understood the comparisons between the two. THere is NONE. Peterson was a traditional back in a traditional offense at Oklahoma.
McFadden ran the alot of his plays from the Pistol or Shotgun offense..and a handfull of those he lines up at QB. Tell me how that is gonna translate into the NFL?

Also, the NFL is loaded with guys that have blown out their knee. Ronnie will be fine or he won't. If not, we trade down and pick the best Running back..Jonathon Stewart.

Ghetti13
01-30-2008, 04:42 PM
McFadden is no Adrian Peterson and he ain't no "stud". Be on the lookout for a free fall.