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View Full Version : Glenn Dorsey...(too small?)



OrlDolfan
01-31-2008, 11:22 AM
I see everybody talking about Glenn Dorsey, I was not very impressed. He didn't seem to dominate anyone, like a potential number 1 pick should. Plus, EVERYBODY in the NFL is a lot bigger and faster than those in the college ranks.

FINSFAN2781
01-31-2008, 11:28 AM
Ive never been overly impressed with Dorsey. I always thought he was a bit too hyped up. He is very good, but I would rather draft Chris Long.

alopez34
01-31-2008, 11:35 AM
maybe the fact that he played almost the entire season with a torn acl because of a cheep chop block in one of the first games of the season.

Rich
01-31-2008, 11:59 AM
He's the size of Warren Sapp. He plays like him, too. In essence, he is a 4-3 lineman and not a 3-4 lineman.

If we're going 4-3, he is an upgrade over Rod Wright. We still need to replace 39-year-old Keith Traylor, and Dorsey is not a Nose Tackle.

Albert Haynesworth is a nose-tackle. Tenessee gave up 32 ppg without him this year, and 18 ppg with him. He was a poor sportsman, once, who stepped on somebody's head once. Isn't that what smash-mouth football is supposed to be about, though? If Haynesworth isn't franchised, he's my #1 free-agent target.

There are taller, heavier guys in the draft if you are looking for a nose-tackle.

elandre
01-31-2008, 12:16 PM
The guy has got great speed for a DT. But if were lookin for a 3-4 Stud i cant wait for Ellis from USC. You know USC had to speacial order Free Weights because USC's gym didnt even have big enough ones for him. He should go up even more after the nfl combine.

i say we trade down and go from there.

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 12:20 PM
He's the size of Warren Sapp. He plays like him, too. In essence, he is a 4-3 lineman and not a 3-4 lineman.

If we're going 4-3, he is an upgrade over Rod Wright. We still need to replace 39-year-old Keith Traylor, and Dorsey is not a Nose Tackle.

Albert Haynesworth is a nose-tackle. Tenessee gave up 32 ppg without him this year, and 18 ppg with him. He was a poor sportsman, once, who stepped on somebody's head once. Isn't that what smash-mouth football is supposed to be about, though? If Haynesworth isn't franchised, he's my #1 free-agent target.

There are taller, heavier guys in the draft if you are looking for a nose-tackle.

No Phat Albert is mostly a Turd that had a career year because it was a contract year...He is going to cost a bundle and has been nothing but trouble dating all the way back to college...

Dorsey is 318 with very little body-fat. He constantly took on double teams in the best offensive conference in NCAA and often beat it. He understand leverage, has an incredible burst and is quick as any DE coming out. He did all this with a bum knee

But hey, if that isnt enough then thats fine. :up:

2413fanphins
01-31-2008, 12:37 PM
I would shed not one tear, if we traded down and landed sedrick ellis.

although, I think that if we trade down, it will be too far down, for ellis to still be around.

Ghetti13
01-31-2008, 12:50 PM
Pay closer attention. Dorsey dominated just about play in and play out.

Domination is not consistently getting to the quarterback, although he could do that. Rather, domination is controlling two blocker when asked to do so. Penetrating when asked to do so. Sliding down the line when asked to do so.

Dorsey is dominant.

It may be time for people to pay closer attention to him play in and play out over multiple games instead of watching the game as a whole and only noting when the announcers bring him up.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:15 PM
OK, lets clear up some misinformation.........

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 01:16 PM
OK, lets clear up some misinformation.........


awaiting paitiently with foot tapping......

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:17 PM
I see everybody talking about Glenn Dorsey, I was not very impressed. He didn't seem to dominate anyone, like a potential number 1 pick should. Plus, EVERYBODY in the NFL is a lot bigger and faster than those in the college ranks.


You clearly didn't see him much if you didn't see him dominate. What you might have seen is a very injured Dorsey, due to an horrific chop block, soak up double and triple teams for much of the 2nd half of the season to allow others to do their jobs even better, whilst still playing at an All Conference level. When your knees are so vital, especially against double teams, that's impressive.

And if you weren't impressed in the BCS Title game then either you were watching someone else or you don't know what to look for in a good DT.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:19 PM
maybe the fact that he played almost the entire season with a torn acl because of a cheep chop block in one of the first games of the season.

He didn't tear an ACL.

He had a very nasty ligament strain which bowed but didn't tear. Considering the force and nature of the impact, he was very lucky.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:24 PM
He's the size of Warren Sapp. He plays like him, too. In essence, he is a 4-3 lineman and not a 3-4 lineman.

If we're going 4-3, he is an upgrade over Rod Wright. We still need to replace 39-year-old Keith Traylor, and Dorsey is not a Nose Tackle.

Albert Haynesworth is a nose-tackle. Tenessee gave up 32 ppg without him this year, and 18 ppg with him. He was a poor sportsman, once, who stepped on somebody's head once. Isn't that what smash-mouth football is supposed to be about, though? If Haynesworth isn't franchised, he's my #1 free-agent target.

There are taller, heavier guys in the draft if you are looking for a nose-tackle.


Warren Sapp is 6'2 and 299lbs. Last week Glenn Dorsey was 6'2 and 316lbs. His ideal formation is a 4-3 as a 3 technique, but it's naive to think he can't play in a 3-4. Casey Hampton was 5lbs heavier at the Senior Bowl weigh in and he's now one of the top 3 or 4 NT's football. Dorsey has the frame to add weight and play the nose if needed, but likely he'll play all around the formation. After all, it's not like Miami is much of a 3-4 team anyway. We played mostly the 4-3 a year ago and even if Pasqueloni plays the 3-4, you only have to look at formations around the league and check for example the Patriots and the Ravens to see how often they play a 4-3.

Albert Haynesworth isn't a NT. Haynesworth is currently a 4-3 0 technique tackle, who can easily play the 3, despite his size. He was a DT as a Vol and he's a DT in Jim Schwartz's 4-3.

And he didn't 'only step on someone's head once'. He trod on the unhelmeted face of a peer. He also attacked a teammate at UT with a pole, kicked a Titan teammate in the chest, had numerous training camp fights with the Titans and had an arrest warrent issued last year.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:25 PM
The guy has got great speed for a DT. But if were lookin for a 3-4 Stud i cant wait for Ellis from USC. You know USC had to speacial order Free Weights because USC's gym didnt even have big enough ones for him. He should go up even more after the nfl combine.

i say we trade down and go from there.


How is a lighter Sedrick Ellis a better fit to play the 3-4 than Dorsey?

unluckyluciano
01-31-2008, 01:25 PM
He didn't tear an ACL.

He had a very nasty ligament strain which bowed but didn't tear. Considering the force and nature of the impact, he was very lucky.
Considering thats all it was I would think it speaks to his durability and considering he continued to play would speak to his character and heart. Oh but he is too small.......... Sign me up for too small.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:26 PM
Pay closer attention. Dorsey dominated just about play in and play out.

Domination is not consistently getting to the quarterback, although he could do that. Rather, domination is controlling two blocker when asked to do so. Penetrating when asked to do so. Sliding down the line when asked to do so.

Dorsey is dominant.

It may be time for people to pay closer attention to him play in and play out over multiple games instead of watching the game as a whole and only noting when the announcers bring him up.

Well said. This isn't meant to sound patronising but it will; people genuinely don't know what they're looking for.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Considering thats all it was I would think it speaks to his durability and considering he continued to play would speak to his character and heart. Oh but he is too small.......... Sign me up for too small.

He also played through a bruised tailbone. Heart, leadership, character; he has it all in spades.

LouPhinFan
01-31-2008, 01:41 PM
A defensive player like Dorsey that can make an impact every snap he's in the ball game is well worth the overall #1 pick, IMHO. Its the same as drafting an offensive skill player with the #1.

I think the pick will either be Dorsey or a trade down (or pick and then trade).

BlueFin
01-31-2008, 01:44 PM
Let me just add to the excellent information Boomer just gave, Glenn Dorsey has tremendous character and heart, he is the type of character player Parcells looks for, playing through that injury and missing very little time in the process speaks volumes about this kid. He is also one of those incredibly naturally strong and athletic players, it is not weight room with Dorsey. I have nothing against Sedrick Ellis and I think he will be a very good player in the NFL, but to hear people ranking Ellis over Dorsey because of the senior bowl is a joke to me.

cnc66
01-31-2008, 01:56 PM
He didn't tear an ACL.

He had a very nasty ligament strain which bowed but didn't tear. Considering the force and nature of the impact, he was very lucky.

To me, this says several things.. first, given the nasty nature of the chop block, it speaks well of Dorseys genetics.. at least "this" knee is tough.. next, he was chopped blocked AGAIN in the bama game and withstood THAT assault on an already stressed out knee. Last, and maybe the most important to me, he played through pain at a very high level. Constantly attempted to stay on the field and help his team, even tho many millions were at stake if the knee went. Even injured he commanded a double team and specific game planning. Given some time to heal, he absolutely reeked havoc during the NC game.

As some have mentioned in the other 147 threads like this one, he can play all across the d line, and has done an exemplary job, his versitilty and abilities constantly release other players into matchups they can win. What you see is not necessarily all you get.. he uplifts and energizes his team mates and is heads up enough to defuse his own team mates in heated moments. Now much of the same sort of thing can be said about Howie's kid, but imo, Dorsey would be the better pick for us.

MrTree
01-31-2008, 02:00 PM
What you see is not necessarily all you get.. he uplifts and energizes his team mates and is heads up enough to defuse his own team mates in heated moments. Now much of the same sort of thing can be said about Howie's kid, but imo, Dorsey would be the better pick for us.


I think you hit the nail on the head here. What elevates Dorsey to my favorite prospect is the fact the he is a facillitator. When he is playing he raises the level of everyone else in the defensive front seven. Kind of the Michael Jordan effect. I think he is one pick that by himself would improve the players around him as well as solidify his position.

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 02:02 PM
As some have mentioned in the other 147 threads like this one, he can play all across the d line, and has done an exemplary job, his versitilty and abilities constantly release other players into matchups they can win. What you see is not necessarily all you get.. he uplifts and energizes his team mates and is heads up enough to defuse his own team mates in heated moments. Now much of the same sort of thing can be said about Howie's kid, but imo, Dorsey would be the better pick for us.

Can you imagine what happens when he is lined up next to JT and the LT has to adjust to help stop Dorsey......:up:

BlueFin
01-31-2008, 02:04 PM
To me, this says several things.. first, given the nasty nature of the chop block, it speaks well of Dorseys genetics.. at least "this" knee is tough.. next, he was chopped blocked AGAIN in the bama game and withstood THAT assault on an already stressed out knee. Last, and maybe the most important to me, he played through pain at a very high level. Constantly attempted to stay on the field and help his team, even tho many millions were at stake if the knee went. Even injured he commanded a double team and specific game planning. Given some time to heal, he absolutely reeked havoc during the NC game.

As some have mentioned in the other 147 threads like this one, he can play all across the d line, and has done an exemplary job, his versitilty and abilities constantly release other players into matchups they can win. What you see is not necessarily all you get.. he uplifts and energizes his team mates and is heads up enough to defuse his own team mates in heated moments. Now much of the same sort of thing can be said about Howie's kid, but imo, Dorsey would be the better pick for us.

Yeah, thats the beauty of the situation we are in if we use the pick, whether your talking about Dorsey or C. Long I think your talking about a player who has character in spades, who will perform at a high level for a long time in this league (barring injury), very safe selections for that #1 pick and all the money it entails.

Conuficus
01-31-2008, 02:11 PM
Many people get hung up on size when talking about NT. many believe that that the Keith Traylor's are the only way to go. Many times being that big has its disadvantages, lateral quickness is a prime example. The REAL key(s) to a NT or any defensive line position is leverage and hand placement.

If size were the key then why was Soliai manhandled all last year? He never had very good separation from the O-lineman blocking him, thus preventing him from disengaging and making the play. Kelly Gregg whom I know personally is not the biggest guy, but has been the NT for Baltimore for the better part of a decade. Here's a hint he was a championship highschool wrestler..............leverage, anyone?

cnc66
01-31-2008, 02:14 PM
Yeah, thats the beauty of the situation we are in if we use the pick, whether your talking about Dorsey or C. Long I think your talking about a player who has character in spades, who will perform at a high level for a long time in this league (barring injury), very safe selections for that #1 pick and all the money it entails.

well said.. I completely agree.. like I said "I" think it should be Dorsey but I would not be surprised or sad if it was CL. With that set of choices already in hand, any trade offer would have to be good. I know there are compelling reasons to sell our pick at a lesser price, but to pass up these guys would be a tough thing to do.

sceeto
01-31-2008, 02:16 PM
The guy has got great speed for a DT. But if were lookin for a 3-4 Stud i cant wait for Ellis from USC. You know USC had to speacial order Free Weights because USC's gym didnt even have big enough ones for him. He should go up even more after the nfl combine.

i say we trade down and go from there.

Agree! Sedric Ellis is the way to go, if possible, depending on where and when he should get picked. I think he may be better than Dorsey, especially in our defense, who everyone is talking about going #1. We may have guys good enough guys as 4-3 tackles in R. Wright, V. Holiday, Q. Moses etc.... Did you see Ellis in the Senior bowl? He was awesome!

Conuficus
01-31-2008, 02:21 PM
Agree! Sedric Ellis is the way to go, if possible, depending on where and when he should get picked. I think he may be better than Dorsey, especially in our defense, who everyone is talking about going #1. We may have guys good enough guys as 4-3 tackles in R. Wright, V. Holiday, Q. Moses etc.... Did you see Ellis in the Senior bowl? He was awesome!

You're lining up under the Guard on that play call there buddy.

sceeto
01-31-2008, 02:30 PM
He also played through a bruised tailbone. Heart, leadership, character; he has it all in spades.

Hey Boomer! On a side note, I've been reading everyday on this site for many years but just now started posting. Your views do hold a lot of credibility, especially on the draft. I remember you predicting the Ted Ginn jr. pick and I believe you mentioned the possibility of John Beck with our 2nd. That was pretty amazing considering T. Ginn was definately not a consensus #1 pick, to say the least. Unless you have some insider info. or something. =). ...anyway hello and good work!

sceeto
01-31-2008, 02:35 PM
You're lining up under the Guard on that play call there buddy.
Yeah sorry! I Didn't remember if that was the right name but I remember he looked pretty good. Whatever his name is. =)).

Stitches
01-31-2008, 02:36 PM
Hey Boomer! On a side note, I've been reading everyday on this site for many years but just now started posting. Your views do hold a lot of credibility, especially on the draft. I remember you predicting the Ted Ginn jr. pick and I believe you mentioned the possibility of John Beck with our 2nd. That was pretty amazing considering T. Ginn was definately not a consensus #1 pick, to say the least. Unless you have some insider info. or something. =). ...anyway hello and good work!

I disagree, in that I thought everyone had Ginn as a 1st round pick, just certainly not a top 10 pick.

sceeto
01-31-2008, 03:08 PM
I disagree, in that I thought everyone had Ginn as a 1st round pick, just certainly not a top 10 pick.

That's what I said, that he WASN'T considered a #1 pick. I didn't say 1st. round.

SEC.142
01-31-2008, 03:14 PM
He's the size of Warren Sapp. He plays like him, too. In essence, he is a 4-3 lineman and not a 3-4 lineman.

If we're going 4-3, he is an upgrade over Rod Wright. We still need to replace 39-year-old Keith Traylor, and Dorsey is not a Nose Tackle.

Albert Haynesworth is a nose-tackle. Tenessee gave up 32 ppg without him this year, and 18 ppg with him. He was a poor sportsman, once, who stepped on somebody's head once. Isn't that what smash-mouth football is supposed to be about, though? If Haynesworth isn't franchised, he's my #1 free-agent target.

There are taller, heavier guys in the draft if you are looking for a nose-tackle.

I gotta admit, I keep hearing Dorsey compared to Sapp, and I don't see It.
Based on body type alone, Ellis is much closer as they are both somewhat top-heavy. When I watch Sapp/Ellis play, the first thing that jumps out at me is how well they move for men with that body type. Dorsey, on the other hand, carries a lot of his weight below the waist.

The only chance I've had to Tivo one of Dorsey's games when he was close to 100% was the National Championship. I believe he was credited with 7 tackles and a sack(something like that). After watching every defensive snap and focusing on Dorsey, IMO he easily could have been credited with at least another sack(in on two others), and a few more tackles. OSU's only successful running plays came when they effectively neutralized Dorsey(which they did about a handful of times). Basically he controlled the interior of their line, ate up double teams and spent the majority of the game at the guard/center's heels. Whenever he faced only Rehring, his initial pop allowed him to basically put one hand on the guard's chest and walk him up and down the line of scrimmage. Went into that game with literally no expectations and when it was over I really had to question if Long(my first choice) would really be a better pick. Still questioning it!

Conuficus
01-31-2008, 03:33 PM
That's what I said, that he WASN'T considered a #1 pick. I didn't say 1st. round.

It might be the wording your using. If you say the guy shouldn't have been a #1 pick then you are saying he wasn't worth a 1st round grade. Every teams 1st round pick is in essence their #1 pick, regardless of overall number (1-32). I don't think Stitches believes you were referring to the #1 overall.......that might be a little over the top.

You might be having a day where you have dislexic fingers. I'm not trying to be mean,.......just where your thinking one thing and your fingers are typing another.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 04:20 PM
To me, this says several things.. first, given the nasty nature of the chop block, it speaks well of Dorseys genetics.. at least "this" knee is tough.. next, he was chopped blocked AGAIN in the bama game and withstood THAT assault on an already stressed out knee. Last, and maybe the most important to me, he played through pain at a very high level. Constantly attempted to stay on the field and help his team, even tho many millions were at stake if the knee went. Even injured he commanded a double team and specific game planning. Given some time to heal, he absolutely reeked havoc during the NC game.

As some have mentioned in the other 147 threads like this one, he can play all across the d line, and has done an exemplary job, his versitilty and abilities constantly release other players into matchups they can win. What you see is not necessarily all you get.. he uplifts and energizes his team mates and is heads up enough to defuse his own team mates in heated moments. Now much of the same sort of thing can be said about Howie's kid, but imo, Dorsey would be the better pick for us.

All good points Marty. When you consider what happened to his legs as a child, it's even greater value. For those that didn't see it, this is what he played through:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiLlOybz9s

That is a leg breaking, ligament snapper. Not a 'I'll be OK next week' injury.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 04:20 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head here. What elevates Dorsey to my favorite prospect is the fact the he is a facillitator. When he is playing he raises the level of everyone else in the defensive front seven. Kind of the Michael Jordan effect. I think he is one pick that by himself would improve the players around him as well as solidify his position.

Good, good points.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 04:22 PM
Agree! Sedric Ellis is the way to go, if possible, depending on where and when he should get picked. I think he may be better than Dorsey, especially in our defense, who everyone is talking about going #1. We may have guys good enough guys as 4-3 tackles in R. Wright, V. Holiday, Q. Moses etc.... Did you see Ellis in the Senior bowl? He was awesome!


Try checking out Dorsey in the regular season over years at LSU. Bit more important than a meaningless All Star game.

Boomer
01-31-2008, 04:23 PM
Hey Boomer! On a side note, I've been reading everyday on this site for many years but just now started posting. Your views do hold a lot of credibility, especially on the draft. I remember you predicting the Ted Ginn jr. pick and I believe you mentioned the possibility of John Beck with our 2nd. That was pretty amazing considering T. Ginn was definately not a consensus #1 pick, to say the least. Unless you have some insider info. or something. =). ...anyway hello and good work!


Hello!

And thanks.

;)

Stitches
01-31-2008, 04:43 PM
All good points Marty. When you consider what happened to his legs as a child, it's even greater value. For those that didn't see it, this is what he played through:

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

That is a leg breaking, ligament snapper. Not a 'I'll be OK next week' injury.

It makes my stomach turn just looking at that video.

It's superhuman that he played through that.

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 05:07 PM
It makes my stomach turn just looking at that video.

It's superhuman that he played through that.


Almost as if you used your wand on him? :lol:

Just kidding Pete..

That is the first time I have seen it since seeing it live. That is BRUTAL. How in the world did he walk off after that..

Lets see. I am Military pressing 300+ lbs (Dynamic load cause it is moving and actually much more cause the guy is adding a resistance....lets say 500+ on the conservative side as I am sure that Olineman can hipsled or snatch 400)..then I have 300 lbs thrown directly at my knee while doing so? A serious POINT load at that.
I can provide mechanical structures similar in stature that wouldve completly buckled...


Get THE HECK OUT OF TOWN...not many people could absorb that and walk away....


And dont forget, as Boom eluded to, this kid spent most of his early childhood in leg braces...Incredible Talent, Incredible Strength Incredible Kid.....(.) PERIOD.

Stitches
01-31-2008, 05:14 PM
Almost as if you used your wand on him? :lol:

Just kidding Pete..

That is the first time I have seen it since seeing it live. That is BRUTAL. How in the world did he walk off after that..

Lets see. I am Military pressing 300+ lbs (Dynamic load cause it is moving and actually much more cause the guy is adding a resistance....lets say 500+ on the conservative side as I am sure that Olineman can hipsled or snatch 400)..then I have 300 lbs thrown directly at my knee while doing so? A serious POINT load at that.
I can provide mechanical structures similar in stature that wouldve completly buckled...


Get THE HECK OUT OF TOWN...not many people could absorb that and walk away....


And dont forget, as Boom eluded to, this kid spent most of his early childhood in leg braces...Incredible Talent, Incredible Strength Incredible Kid.....(.) PERIOD.

To be fair, his body sure as hell buckled. I mean you can see him flail. The fact his ligaments, bones, and joints held up is something crazy.

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 05:16 PM
To be fair, his body sure as hell buckled. I mean you can see him flail. The fact his ligaments, bones, and joints held up is something crazy.


Agreed, there is a difference between buckleing and complete mechanical fatigue...You should be an
en gu knee er...

Boomer
01-31-2008, 05:33 PM
It makes my stomach turn just looking at that video.

It's superhuman that he played through that.

Yeah, but when you see the raping he gave Chaz Ramsey in the quarter of that game, that was his retribution. A disgusting play.

Charlie Brown
01-31-2008, 05:46 PM
Im kinda worried about taking Glenn Dorsey with the #1 pick, is anyone else concern with his injury problem? He missed a lot of playing time.

JT#1
01-31-2008, 05:54 PM
Im kinda worried about taking Glenn Dorsey with the #1 pick, is anyone else concern with his injury problem? He missed a lot of playing time.
........he missed 1 game.......and came back in the same game he was injured in.......

Boomer
01-31-2008, 05:54 PM
Im kinda worried about taking Glenn Dorsey with the #1 pick, is anyone else concern with his injury problem? He missed a lot of playing time.

What injury problem?

I mean seriously. And what playing time?

zach8111
01-31-2008, 05:59 PM
maybe the fact that he played almost the entire season with a torn acl because of a cheep chop block in one of the first games of the season.
actually i think it was week 8 when he got hurt.

The Confessor
01-31-2008, 06:02 PM
Im kinda worried about taking Glenn Dorsey with the #1 pick, is anyone else concern with his injury problem? He missed a lot of playing time.


Yeah, I agree. What do you guys think? Boom? Anybody else...not only that the kid is a bum......


Seriouisly? I heard he missed 7/8ths of the season?????

I have got to get a life.....

Stitches
01-31-2008, 06:14 PM
Agreed, there is a difference between buckleing and complete mechanical fatigue...You must be an
en gu knee er...

:whistle:

sceeto
02-01-2008, 12:08 AM
Try checking out Dorsey in the regular season over years at LSU. Bit more important than a meaningless All Star game.

That is true. I haven't seen enough of Dorsey. The few times I did, I think he may have been hurt. I do trust your opinion though. I think both will very good players.

Silverphin
02-01-2008, 12:56 AM
Im kinda worried about taking Glenn Dorsey with the #1 pick, is anyone else concern with his injury problem? He missed a lot of playing time.

When did he miss playing time?