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View Full Version : how is Ellis a better fit in a 3-4 than dorsey?



JT#1
01-31-2008, 07:16 PM
Seriously can someone explain this to me? Dorsey is bigger and weighs more, but hes too small and Ellis is big enough? I think Ellis is going to be a hell of a player, but i think people are overating him a bit after one all star game.

zach8111
01-31-2008, 07:39 PM
same here. i think they are overrating him a bit. but he will be a heck of a player. i think its ideal that we trade down and take Otah OT and pat sims NT (good size and great burst of speed and takling is great)

PerfectTeam
01-31-2008, 08:52 PM
ellis is def a good player. no about that after watching the senior bowl practices. the thing is i dont think he would be a good fit in the 3-4. putting him in the cover 2, he could be the next sapp.

albyfinfan
01-31-2008, 09:40 PM
couse dorsey is 4-3 tackle not a 3-4 end or nose plus dorsey is not even out of college and he allready has back problems, and with a guy that big thats dab news

PerfectTeam
01-31-2008, 10:11 PM
couse dorsey is 4-3 tackle not a 3-4 end or nose plus dorsey is not even out of college and he allready has back problems, and with a guy that big thats dab news

back problems? i believe the back problems your refering to are because he was having to over compensate for a brutal chop block on his leg. Up until that chop block he had no history of injuries what so ever. I agree that dorsey is a 4-3 tackle but to say he isnt anything more than that is crazy. at 6-2 316, he is only a few pounds lighter than casey hampton one of the better nose tackles in the game, as boomer has alluded too. He also has enough ability to play 3-4 end due to superior quickness.

Stitches
01-31-2008, 10:12 PM
Ellis is not a better fit, it is as simple as that.

sam
01-31-2008, 10:29 PM
couse dorsey is 4-3 tackle not a 3-4 end or nose plus dorsey is not even out of college and he allready has back problems, and with a guy that big thats dab news

I read or heard somewhere that the so called back problem was actually only a bruised tail bone.

mxkawi1
01-31-2008, 11:39 PM
Seriously can someone explain this to me? Dorsey is bigger and weighs more, but hes too small and Ellis is big enough? I think Ellis is going to be a hell of a player, but i think people are overating him a bit after one all star game.
I was wondering the same thing. I think(and I'm no scout) that Ellis is a better pass rusher. He is quicker and better with his hands. And I think Dorsey is a better run stopper.

Roman529
01-31-2008, 11:42 PM
I think Ellis is a lot faster than Dorsey....gets trough O-lineman very quickly, better at sacking the QB than Dorsey. I think Dorsey has an edge on stopping runners, but they both are good tacklers. I think Ellis would be slghtly better in our overall D.

PerfectTeam
01-31-2008, 11:56 PM
I think Ellis is a lot faster than Dorsey....gets trough O-lineman very quickly, better at sacking the QB than Dorsey. I think Dorsey has an edge on stopping runners, but they both are good tacklers. I think Ellis would be slghtly better in our overall D.

i dont see how ellis is a better fit than dorsey. ellis is best used as a penetrating DT in the cover 2 where that speed and quick first step will work great for that defense. i think he is fairly miscast in a 3-4 where as dorsey isnt. he has the strength to play the nose and the quickness to play end.

JT#1
02-01-2008, 12:18 AM
I think Ellis is a lot faster than Dorsey....gets trough O-lineman very quickly, better at sacking the QB than Dorsey. I think Dorsey has an edge on stopping runners, but they both are good tacklers. I think Ellis would be slghtly better in our overall D.
we are most likely going to run primarily a 3-4 D, d-lineman in a 3-4 D' primary responsibility is to free up the linebackers to make plays and and man their gaps in the run and make stop the run and don't very often get many sacks, thats the outside linebackers jobs.

ChambersWI
02-01-2008, 08:18 AM
this is what we call a heat of the moment bandwagon. The senior bowl was probably the first time most people here really watched Ellis play (not USC, Ellis). He'll be a great player, but people are just focusing on what he did at the senior bowl; where he was the only elite prospect (though you could throw Rivers,McKelvon and Connor in there as well). Really the senior bowl is mostly to showcase lower round guys and help their stock. Ellis was a top 10 pick before the senior bowl, and he's a top 10 pick after the senior bowl.

MrTree
02-01-2008, 09:08 AM
Frankly it's ignorance. And I'm sorry if you are in that boat, but it is ignorant to think that Ellis is a better DT or even NT than Dorsey. Dorsey is bigger, has phenomenal strength, and a better burst.


There have been a lot of people who have been looking for a reason to doubt Dorsey, but they can not provide a compelling argument.

BTW for the guy who said Dorsey had a back injury. His injury was a bruised tailbone. Since the tailbone is considered a part of the back they listed it as a "back injury." Hardly a chronic injury. As a matter of fact the guy is the exact opposite of injury prone. He still played at an incredibly high level after a chop block that should have been borderline career ending.

The guy is an absolute stud.

Boomer
02-01-2008, 09:39 AM
It's called Senior Bowl ignorance.

People believe that the Senior Bowl is actually more important than a collegiate career. They hear a rumour and it becomes like Chinese whispers and all of a sudden it's true. All of a sudden Sedrick Ellis is a better player than Dorsey based on what happened in Mobile? Please.

Someone writes that Glenn Dorsey is injury prone and all of a sudden it's fact, when in reality it's actually lazy.

MrTree
02-01-2008, 09:43 AM
It's called Senior Bowl ignorance.

People believe that the Senior Bowl is actually more important than a collegiate career. They hear a rumour and it becomes like Chinese whispers and all of a sudden it's true. All of a sudden Sedrick Ellis is a better player than Dorsey based on what happened in Mobile? Please.

Someone writes that Glenn Dorsey is injury prone and all of a sudden it's fact, when in reality it's actually lazy.


But Boom Mike Mayock said Ellis was better! Who are we to question!?

The sad thing is is that I like Ellis as a prospect, but this Ellis is better than Dorsey stuff is rediculous.

uga3406
02-01-2008, 11:07 AM
i happen to like both players but i think that neither fits the 3-4 system that the phins play...if u want a defensive player that fits the 3-4 looks no further then chris long...

Ghetti13
02-01-2008, 11:22 AM
Ellis is not even in the same class as Dorsey. To name a few, Dorsey is stronger. He plays with better leverage and technique. He has much better read and recognition skills. He has better explosion and better body control. He is bigger. He has a better motor.

In essence, Dorsey dominates CONSISTENTLY against the run and the pass. Ellis dominates OCCASIONALLY and only in the passing game.

Ellis is not a nose tackle and is arguably limited to 4-3 defenses where players are simply asked to hit a gap and get into the backfield. He is somewhat of a liability in the running game and he plays too high too often.

Dorsey is arguably the best tackle to enter the draft in fifteen years. He is special. Ellis on the other hand is to some extent a dime a dozen. Players like him can be found in just about every draft.

Sometimes I wonder if these media "draft guru's" ever actually pop in the tape before they open their mouth.

Boomer
02-01-2008, 11:24 AM
But Boom Mike Mayock said Ellis was better! Who are we to question!?

The sad thing is is that I like Ellis as a prospect, but this Ellis is better than Dorsey stuff is rediculous.

Yeah it's nonsense. I don't know what Mayock is thinking.

I too think Ellis is a super player, but he's not, IMO, as good as Dorsey.

MrTree
02-01-2008, 11:33 AM
Ellis is not even in the same class as Dorsey. To name a few, Dorsey is stronger. He plays with better leverage and technique. He has much better read and recognition skills. He has better explosion and better body control. He is bigger. He has a better motor.

In essence, Dorsey dominates CONSISTENTLY against the run and the pass. Ellis dominates OCCASIONALLY and only in the passing game.

Ellis is not a nose tackle and is arguably limited to 4-3 defenses where players are simply asked to hit a gap and get into the backfield. He is somewhat of a liability in the running game and he plays too high too often.

Dorsey is arguably the best tackle to enter the draft in fifteen years. He is special. Ellis on the other hand is to some extent a dime a dozen. Players like him can be found in just about every draft.

Sometimes I wonder if these media "draft guru's" ever actually pop in the tape before they open their mouth.

:clapping: Thank you.

I do think Ellis is pretty darned good. But you are right that there is a DT of Eliis's talent level in every draft. Dorsey is a rare and special prospect.

It really seems to me that there is a personal thing with a lot of peeps around here where they feel they have to look for reasons to badmouth Dorsey for their own agenda.

rev kev
02-01-2008, 07:45 PM
:clapping: Thank you.

I do think Ellis is pretty darned good. But you are right that there is a DT of Eliis's talent level in every draft. Dorsey is a rare and special prospect.

It really seems to me that there is a personal thing with a lot of peeps around here where they feel they have to look for reasons to badmouth Dorsey for their own agenda.

My mother-in-law told me that in her homeland Jamaica they cannot say "Fart" for "Fart" is a swear word instead they say ..., you shot a bunny... a "fluffy bunny"

HEDAZHELAS24
02-02-2008, 09:06 AM
SOLUTION: pass on both bc we do not need to waste this pick.. TAKE CHRIS LONG

DOL-FAN92
02-02-2008, 11:04 AM
back problems? i believe the back problems your refering to are because he was having to over compensate for a brutal chop block on his leg. Up until that chop block he had no history of injuries what so ever. I agree that dorsey is a 4-3 tackle but to say he isnt anything more than that is crazy. at 6-2 316, he is only a few pounds lighter than casey hampton one of the better nose tackles in the game, as boomer has alluded too. He also has enough ability to play 3-4 end due to superior quickness.

agreed.When we drafted Ted Ginn at this time,the doctors were saying he was only 75% healed foot....if a WR cant play,9-10 its his foot...dont make up stories cause you saw how explosive he was

Dorsey is gonna be fine.If we draft him he is going to be used appropiately.By this,I mean were not going to just pull a Saban(Nick) and throw him on the field come start of the 08 season and Saban did with Culpepper

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Dorsey is more of a fire guy, rushing to the QB, instead of controlling the line to allow backers roam and fill. Dorsey also needs to learn how to handle double teams.

Ellis on the other hand is more of a control guy, a big guy that is better then Dorsey at double teams.

both great linemen, cant go wrong really picking either!!!

JT#1
02-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Dorsey is more of a fire guy, rushing to the QB, instead of controlling the line to allow backers roam and fill. Dorsey also needs to learn how to handle double teams.

Ellis on the other hand is more of a control guy, a big guy that is better then Dorsey at double teams.

both great linemen, cant go wrong really picking either!!!
you actually got that opposite, dorsey is the one who is bigger and handles double teams, Ellis is the pass rusher.

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 07:58 PM
Dorsey: he uses his quickness to explode of the line and beat his man one on one. when double teamed he still uses his quickness and spin moves to beat it instead of splitting the double. thats one thing he needs to work on, split double team (using his hands), keeping his space. and obviously he's got good speed and tackeling ability getting to the QB and RB.

Ellis: has quickness too, but bursts and uses his arms to seperate (better hands), and basically has speed and quickness like dorsey to the ball. he reads very well... but once agian doesnt have the size and bigger line-men can beat him going right at him. but he is a hard worker with a great ethic.

both guys have the speed and quickness, both lack size and bulk... i like ellis how he works with his hands and can help more with the run in my mind. both are top notch athletes from the line though... problem, they'd be better with 4 on the line than our 3-4 scheme.

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 08:05 PM
a guy i been starting to look a little game film on is Tommy Blake from TCU... freaking beastly.

this guy is soooo fast, and quick off the line. undersized once again but has solid strength. he definitely has great speed and can be transformed into an outside linebacker if needed too... otherwise can be a good pressure guy (maybe like taylor) on the line.... later round possability!!!

JT#1
02-02-2008, 08:05 PM
Dorsey: he uses his quickness to explode of the line and beat his man one on one. when double teamed he still uses his quickness and spin moves to beat it instead of splitting the double. thats one thing he needs to work on, split double team (using his hands), keeping his space. and obviously he's got good speed and tackeling ability getting to the QB and RB.

Ellis: has quickness too, but bursts and uses his arms to seperate (better hands), and basically has speed and quickness like dorsey to the ball. he reads very well... but once agian doesnt have the size and bigger line-men can beat him going right at him. but he is a hard worker with a great ethic.

both guys have the speed and quickness, both lack size and bulk... i like ellis how he works with his hands and can help more with the run in my mind. both are top notch athletes from the line though... problem, they'd be better with 4 on the line than our 3-4 scheme.
You are the first person ive heard that says Ellis is better at handling double teams than a Dorsey,from everything i've gathered Dorsey is more of the run suffer, take the double-triple teams while Ellis rushes the passer more

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 08:09 PM
never said ellis is better at double teams... i think they both need work on that, they both arent great 2 gap players yet. i saying ellis uses his hands a lot better on the line, uses them for seperation... dorsey uses his spin more and quickness more... which in the nfl with double teams, ellis would succeed more in his style (but obviously both need to be coached)

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 08:10 PM
oh wait... i did in my first one. lol

well i guess thats why then

JT#1
02-02-2008, 08:14 PM
ahh i see

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 08:16 PM
JT... which would you take? or would Chris Long be more interesting?

JT#1
02-02-2008, 08:18 PM
i would take Dorsey, i think he is more well rounded of a tackle. He plays the run very well,and when he able to pin his ear back and rush the passer he is explosive enough to just bust by his man. I like Ellis but he seems to me not as well rounded of a player as Dorsey

I am Bane
02-02-2008, 08:24 PM
i wonder what parcells is thinking. these guys are all gonna be solid nfl players. i really have no clue whom i would go with yet.

The Confessor
02-02-2008, 08:31 PM
Fortunately we still have a while till the draft.

At this point I would lean heavily on either Chris Long or Dorsey.

Ellis better than Dorsey? Damnest thing I have ever heard..

2413fanphins
02-03-2008, 12:36 AM
Fortunately we still have a while till the draft.

At this point I would lean heavily on either Chris Long or Dorsey.

Ellis better than Dorsey? Damnest thing I have ever heard..




words don't begin to describe how much I agree with this post.

csabe
02-03-2008, 12:52 AM
Ellis is a one gap tackle and dorsey can play either one gap or two gap. Ellis is a very good pass rusher but Dorsey has the overall better package of ability for our team. That being said I prefer Chris Long to either of them for our 3-4 D.

I am Bane
02-03-2008, 01:03 AM
i want to see some more film on chris long.... where can i find it? anyone know

Boomer
02-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Dorsey is more of a fire guy, rushing to the QB, instead of controlling the line to allow backers roam and fill. Dorsey also needs to learn how to handle double teams.



Dude, seriously, I would stop writing here. You're going to get attacked over and over again. Dorsey handles the double teams brilliantly. You need to understand what Dorsey's role was within that LSU defense.

Boomer
02-04-2008, 09:38 AM
a guy i been starting to look a little game film on is Tommy Blake from TCU... freaking beastly.

this guy is soooo fast, and quick off the line. undersized once again but has solid strength. he definitely has great speed and can be transformed into an outside linebacker if needed too... otherwise can be a good pressure guy (maybe like taylor) on the line.... later round possability!!!


Blake has serious off field issues and may go undrafted because of them.