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zach8111
01-31-2008, 07:35 PM
Who do you think is a better draft analysis? Mel Kiper or Todd McShay?

I personally like Todd McShay better. he seems to be closer when it come to the draft and where people actually go.

JT#1
01-31-2008, 07:36 PM
Mcshay .

PJack
01-31-2008, 07:48 PM
McShay for draft order and more accurate teams needs evaluation. Kiper for specific player evaluations, but his predictions usually aren't great. I get one of Kiper's predraft magazines and can't believe the detail he has on guys that never even are shown on TV. Also like the guys at Scouts Inc. among the 30 other sites I check out.....sad but true.

jdang307
02-01-2008, 04:50 AM
Which magazine is this of Kipers? I'd like to get it.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2008, 07:07 AM
Kiper has lost it. His mock this year is outrageous. McShay is slowly weeding Kiper out on ESPN.

DownUnderFin13
02-01-2008, 07:22 AM
I think McShay has taken over from Kiper as a better draft analyst.

ChambersWI
02-01-2008, 08:13 AM
McShay is really hit or miss. Sometimes he'll say something that makes you go ?!?, but he's getting better. Kiper, while still very good, is starting to slip a bit. I will forever give McShay props for saying that Brady Quinn was only considered an elite player because the draft class last year was not very top heavy, and almost every other year, he'd go mid to late 1st. Not cause I necessarily agree with him, but he called where Quinn would be picked.

Personally, I think Mike Mayock is the best out there right now. He and Adam Scheffter do a great job as insider and draft expert for NFLN. In fact, NFLN has a lot more people who are qualified to talk about the draft than ESPN (though I do watch the ESPN draft a little more due to the camera angles being so much better)

Trackstar
02-01-2008, 09:15 AM
Mike Mayock.

Boomer
02-01-2008, 09:41 AM
Kiper has lost it. His mock this year is outrageous. McShay is slowly weeding Kiper out on ESPN.


The draft is at the halfway point. How would you know that Kiper's mock is outrageous?

Frankly, he knows more about the draft than everyone on this site put together.

And personally, I'd take Kiper 100 times out of 100.

jim1
02-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Who do you think is a better draft analysis? Mel Kiper or Todd McShay?

I personally like Todd McShay better. he seems to be closer when it come to the draft and where people actually go.

Boomer is better than both, give credit where credit is due. Mike Mayock is good, too. I also like Scott Wright from NFLDC- not always, though. Case in point he thought that John Beck is a career backup. I disagree.

jim1
02-01-2008, 09:45 AM
The draft is at the halfway point. How would you know that Kiper's mock is outrageous?

Frankly, he knows more about the draft than everyone on this site put together.

And personally, I'd take Kiper 100 times out of 100.

I'm surprised that you like Kiper that much. Better than McShay, for sure. One thing about Kiper is the way that he slides players up and down his board in the absence of any real reason to do so- new info, etc. it makes me wonder how he goes about rating the players.

Itsdahumidity
02-01-2008, 11:24 AM
The draft is at the halfway point. How would you know that Kiper's mock is outrageous?

Frankly, he knows more about the draft than everyone on this site put together.

And personally, I'd take Kiper 100 times out of 100.

IDK Boomer, the NFL draft has changed, be it the result of salary cap ramifications, teams better understanding of free agency etc. I've noticed Kiper has had a difficult time adjusting IMHO.

emocomputerjock
02-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Kb21.

Boomer
02-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Boomer is better than both, give credit where credit is due. Mike Mayock is good, too. I also like Scott Wright from NFLDC- not always, though. Case in point he thought that John Beck is a career backup. I disagree.

That's very nice of you to say, but it REALLY isn't true. These are guys that dedicate their lives to it, very succesfully. I'm one of a million guys on the internet who watches some tape and does some research and tells a few guys what he thinks on a Miami Dolphins fan site.

There is no comparison.

But thanks.

Boomer
02-01-2008, 11:43 AM
I'm surprised that you like Kiper that much. Better than McShay, for sure. One thing about Kiper is the way that he slides players up and down his board in the absence of any real reason to do so- new info, etc. it makes me wonder how he goes about rating the players.

I think Mel has a lot of contacts - both with coaches, scouts, front office people, agents and players. And I also think, like me, he does most of his tape watching after the season is over. Simply because he doesn't have time to do it during the CF season.

Ghetti13
02-01-2008, 11:58 AM
I think it is best to use those experts as a filtering tool. In essence, working full-time does not leave but an hour or so a day to pop in the tape and scout various prospects. Given that, you have to be efficient with the time you have and the players you watch.

Given that, I use them to point me towards the players who they perceived to be talented. I then slowly go through two to four tapes (depending on how often I was able to tape them) where I focus completely on the player in question in the effort to come to my own conclusions about the individual's skill set. Sometimes I grade them the same. Sometimes better. Sometimes worse.

In essence, I think they all have their moments, but they serve an excellent filtering role for me.

MrEd
02-01-2008, 02:52 PM
Who do you think is a better draft analysis? Mel Kiper or Todd McShay?

I personally like Todd McShay better. he seems to be closer when it come to the draft and where people actually go.

Mike Mayock.

Boomer
02-01-2008, 03:09 PM
Kb21.

Yep....Keith's got game.

Nappy Roots
02-01-2008, 03:17 PM
that Nappy Roots guy

dlockz
02-01-2008, 03:24 PM
Boomer is better than both, give credit where credit is due. Mike Mayock is good, too. I also like Scott Wright from NFLDC- not always, though. Case in point he thought that John Beck is a career backup. I disagree.


Lol, I personally have seen none of these guys blow me away with how people actually have performed in the NFL. Some of these guys are good at predicting where people may go but would love to see a detailed comparism to actual performance of the players they touted and dissed.

Nappy Roots
02-01-2008, 03:29 PM
Lol, I personally have seen none of these guys blow me away with how people actually have performed in the NFL. Some of these guys are good at predicting where people may go but would love to see a detailed comparism to actual performance of the players they touted and dissed.


its cuz the draft is a crap shoot. really the best thing about any these guys is the information about the player and how he played in college. then a lot of times where they will go in the draft. but other then that, its to hard for NFL GMs to predict exactly how each player will play in the pros. much less Kiper and them.

thats why, personally i listen to Kiper the most. i think hes the most knowledgable guy out there as far as what the prospects done and everything. does he predict every bust and star? no, but you shouldnt expect him to, nor any other analyst.

MrTree
02-01-2008, 03:34 PM
its cuz the draft is a crap shoot. really the best thing about any these guys is the information about the player and how he played in college. then a lot of times where they will go in the draft. but other then that, its to hard for NFL GMs to predict exactly how each player will play in the pros. much less Kiper and them.

thats why, personally i listen to Kiper the most. i think hes the most knowledgable guy out there as far as what the prospects done and everything. does he predict every bust and star? no, but you shouldnt expect him to, nor any other analyst.


Every pick is about calculated risk. You just have to take the data from tapes, the combine, etc. and hopefully put together a picture of how a guy will perform on a level they have never played at. It's hard to grade these guys though because how much odf a window of time do you need before you can grade a pick? By that point it's an old story.

I think the best draft predictors in the world would be to get Wanny and Spielman back, have them make their choices and then ALWAYS pick the other guy!

PJack
02-01-2008, 11:58 PM
For those interested in Kiper's publications, here's a link:

http://www.melkiper.com/pub.html

I always get the Draft Report and the Draft Review.

DOL-FAN92
02-02-2008, 12:02 AM
Who do you think is a better draft analysis? Mel Kiper or Todd McShay?

I personally like Todd McShay better. he seems to be closer when it come to the draft and where people actually go.

McShay....one reason,and one reason only...


Kiper doesnt have Kenny Philips going in the first round(if he doesnt....HANDS DOWN we snag him) and that seems rediculous

PJack
02-02-2008, 12:24 AM
McShay....one reason,and one reason only...


Kiper doesnt have Kenny Philips going in the first round(if he doesnt....HANDS DOWN we snag him) and that seems rediculous

Everything I'm reading is that he had a somewhat disappointing season despite being a great talent. Certainly his relatively poor team play would have had something to do with his supposed drop. Only real negative I keep reading is that he has a tendency to go after the big hit vs. making the sure play. I can't remember the last time I didn't see that written about a top safety prospect, so I that doesn't worry me. Some decent coaching can cure some of those problems. Just hope he wouldn't turn into Roy Williams whom is a great hitter but a big liability in coverage.

alen1
02-02-2008, 12:28 AM
Mayock by far for me.

RealDriscoll
02-02-2008, 04:29 PM
Mayock, no question.

sceeto
02-03-2008, 08:27 AM
Mayock, no question.

Well I remember everyone in the world, including myself, had us picking Quinn if he was stil there, except for Boomer who predicted the Ginn pick. Still suprised about that...

Touchnit187
02-03-2008, 08:33 AM
I totally agree with boomer............

I am Bane
02-03-2008, 12:56 PM
I just always been sick of Kiper being everywhere onstantly doing this and nothing else.... but this year i am sooooo pumped and into the draft so early. probably because i couldnt stand last years, and we have the genius Parcells now who is the true NFL Draft Guru!!!!!

biggtyme13
02-03-2008, 02:18 PM
Well lets do this. We will make a post the morning of the draft with all of their final mocks and see wich one is closer. I say we also set up a contest and we can all pick against each other and see how we do verse the experts.