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View Full Version : [MERGED] Senator wants to meet with Commish about Destroyed Tapes



HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 11:27 AM
Sorry If this was already posted I hadn't seen it yet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3225539

Glad Im not the only one who was pissed about this.

satz
02-01-2008, 11:46 AM
Election time

HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 12:11 PM
Election time

Ha, yeah ur prolly right. I think Arlen Specter is known for being somwhat outlandish at times. Although he'd sure as hell have my vote :up:

phinman1
02-01-2008, 12:58 PM
What's wrong with a Senator being concerned about the integrity of an institution that millions and millions of Americans spend serious money on? There likely won't be full blown hearings or anything of that nature, it's simply someone in power firing a shot across the bow of an arrogant institution. An institution that basically ignores anti-trust laws, treats retired players like dirt and generally thinks they can do whatever they want.

I, along with all of you, love the NFL. That being said I don't mind them getting slapped around a tad.

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 01:15 PM
Except lost in all of this, is that he's only doing it because of the Eagles.

You guys can complain all you want about the NFL destroying the tapes, the reason they were destroyed is because it showed other teams "cheating" as well. The fact you choose not to accept that is fine.

HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 01:17 PM
Except lost in all of this, is that he's only doing it because of the Eagles.

You guys can complain all you want about the NFL destroying the tapes, the reason they were destroyed is because it showed other teams "cheating" as well. The fact you choose not to accept that is fine.

And you would use what evidence to base this upon?

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 01:20 PM
And you would use what evidence to base this upon?
The same evidence you use to base upon your opinion that the Pats cheated every game since Belichick came to New England.

Before I get the "Oh you of course think they didn't cheat" response from someone, I know they OBVIOUSLY cheated - and more than once. I just feel they weren't the only ones who were doing some form of "illegal activity". Goodell has cracked down on offenders since he took office. Players, coaches, organizations. Tagliabue never did any of that. Who knows how much of it was going on when he was in office?

HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 01:35 PM
The same evidence you use to base upon your opinion that the Pats cheated every game since Belichick came to New England.

Before I get the "Oh you of course think they didn't cheat" response from someone, I know they OBVIOUSLY cheated - and more than once. I just feel they weren't the only ones who were doing some form of "illegal activity". Goodell has cracked down on offenders since he took office. Players, coaches, organizations. Tagliabue never did any of that. Who knows how much of it was going on when he was in office?


First off, I never gave the opinion that the Pats cheated every game.No where in my post did I state this and for you to assume this is incorrect.

Secondly, the whole point is that we don't know the extent of the Pats cheating scandal. This is why Im upset the tapes were destoyed. What else is on them?

Lastly, if in fact there were other teams cheating on those tapes NE had (as you suggest) why weren't other teams fined or punished? If you're Kraft or BB why not point the finger at those teams instead of being the only franchise to look bad?

I can't say I wouldn't take the same approach as you if it were my team, but c'mon dude. You have to admit this just doesn't all add up.

phinman1
02-01-2008, 01:38 PM
Except lost in all of this, is that he's only doing it because of the Eagles.

You guys can complain all you want about the NFL destroying the tapes, the reason they were destroyed is because it showed other teams "cheating" as well. The fact you choose not to accept that is fine.

Really? Wow. You have quite the scoop there man. Where did you get that inside info? :lol:

Of course, it's not surprising to hear Patsie fans crying the same "everybody is doing it" refrain, despite there being no evidence showing that. No, the only evidence that has thus far come to light indicates only the Patsies cheating.

NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2008, 01:39 PM
Its not like he has anything else to worry about right?

War?
poor and starving people?
Temps getting warmer and warmer?
Taxes?

Finfang
02-01-2008, 01:44 PM
The same evidence you use to base upon your opinion that the Pats cheated every game since Belichick came to New England.

Before I get the "Oh you of course think they didn't cheat" response from someone, I know they OBVIOUSLY cheated - and more than once. I just feel they weren't the only ones who were doing some form of "illegal activity". Goodell has cracked down on offenders since he took office. Players, coaches, organizations. Tagliabue never did any of that. Who knows how much of it was going on when he was in office?

Funny thing that the Patriots were the only ones who were punished for it.(Although not nearly as hard as they should have been). My point is if other teams were cheating then why not take them all down at once. I'll tell you why. The Patriots have been continuosly doing it and they had the proof against THEM. Then they were punished and It was swept under the rug(tapes destroyed) to protect the integrity of the game.

Of course every team will try to gain an advantage but face it man the Patriots are cheaters, they were busted and the rest of the NFL has been cheated.

phinman1
02-01-2008, 01:47 PM
Its not like he has anything else to worry about right?

War?
poor and starving people?
Temps getting warmer and warmer?
Taxes?

C'mon. Nobody is equating this with those issues.

Again, what is wrong with him scrutinizing a multibillion dollar corporation doing business in the United States? Is the integrity of businesses not important when Americans spend millions upon millions on them?

NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2008, 01:54 PM
C'mon. Nobody is equating this with those issues.

Again, what is wrong with him scrutinizing a multibillion dollar corporation doing business in the United States? Is the integrity of businesses not important when Americans spend millions upon millions on them?


Because the NFL has nothing to do with what he should be worring about. He is doing this to find votes. Which he most likely wouldn't need if he was doing his job right.

This is not steriods, its a team that got caught and the NFL took care of it, I agree destroying the tapes was bad judgement, but it has nothing to do with the government.

phinman1
02-01-2008, 02:11 PM
Because the NFL has nothing to do with what he should be worring about. He is doing this to find votes. Which he most likely wouldn't need if he was doing his job right.

This is not steriods, its a team that got caught and the NFL took care of it, I agree destroying the tapes was bad judgement, but it has nothing to do with the government.

That's your opinion.

The NFL took care of it? Really? Is that your standard for businesses--simply destroy all evidence casting doubt on your integrity as a multibillion dollar corporation. I'm all for government staying out of business, but at times big business needs to be checked a bit.

BigDogsHunt
02-01-2008, 02:12 PM
Because the NFL has nothing to do with what he should be worring about. He is doing this to find votes. Which he most likely wouldn't need if he was doing his job right.

This is not steriods, its a team that got caught and the NFL took care of it, I agree destroying the tapes was bad judgement, but it has nothing to do with the government.

That's not true. Our Government is the oversight of our Nations business practices and laws. The Antitrust exemption the NFL has is always scrutinized by Congress to make sure americans that do spend money supporting this sport are getting a fair product on the field.

Personally, I think its least important of their roles, but it does fall under their Government appointed responsibilities by the people (checks and balances).

NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2008, 02:22 PM
That's your opinion.

The NFL took care of it? Really? Is that your standard for businesses--simply destroy all evidence casting doubt on your integrity as a multibillion dollar corporation. I'm all for government staying out of business, but at times big business needs to be checked a bit.

You honestly think this has nothing to do with votes? Yes its my opinion.

Roman529
02-01-2008, 02:32 PM
Rob Schneider was just on the Mike Tirico show and they asked him what he thought about Belichik....and he said, "CHEATER."

Roman529
02-01-2008, 02:33 PM
You honestly think this has nothing to do with votes? Yes its my opinion.

Read this sob story letter defending the Patriots. :boohoo:


I just sent this letter off to Senators Kerry and Kennedy:

Dear Senator Kerry:

As a tax-paying American citizen and a Massachusetts constituent, I would like to voice my concern over Sen. Arlen Specter instigating an investigation into the "videogate" matter that has been decided upon by the NFL and which entity long ago levied heavy fines and penalties on the New England Patriots. For Sen. Specter to be wasting his time and attempting to waste our hard-earned money into a matter that is not of concern to our government and which is clearly NOT a violation of any law of the United States when there are so many pressing and crucial matters to be focused upon in our country is a disgusting disregard for the hard-working people of this country.

Sen. Specter in a letter to the NFL stated, "I am very concerned about the underlying facts on the taping, the reasons for the judgment on the limited penalties and, most of all, on the inexplicable destruction of the tapes." Clearly, the Senator must not be aware of the largest fine ever to be levied on a coach in the history of the NFL and, in addition, the consequences to a team of the loss of a first-round draft pick. Regardless, what does this have to do with our government? According to the Senator, "It's analogous to the CIA destruction of tapes. Or any time you have records destroyed." Either the Senator from Pennsylvania is entirely senile, comparing a violation of a rule in a GAME to security risks to our government, or he has nothing better to do for his state.

I am hoping that you, Sen. Kerry, along with Sen. Kennedy, can assist in quashing this ridiculous waste of time instigated by an apparent sore loser. This is disrespectful to the American people and, particularly, to the citizens of the Commonwealth.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this pitifully wasteful situation. However, it is of import not only to the ever-expanding fan base of the New England Patriots, but also to our citizens who are sick of wasteful government time and precious taxpayers' money.

satz
02-01-2008, 02:42 PM
No of tapes taken from the pats = 6.

Confirmed all the 6 tapes had coaches waving all 3 [1 real 1 and 2 dumby ones which team use to cover their signals] waving and then down in the monitor.

In one camera 1 asst coach is waving only at the camera .

confirmed that patriots are not the only team doing it and he wanted to send the message to other teams doing it.

phinman1
02-01-2008, 03:01 PM
After pacman and vick, what do you think the NFL would do if it had a full fledged scandal on it's hands? Some evidence showing that the Patsies possibly cheated in a Super Bowl or something of that nature.

Goodell says they destroyed (they actually burned them, wtf?) the evidence to make sure the Patsies would never again have this advantage.

He's says this despite the fact that the Patsies swore they turned over everything and made no copies. That doesn't make any sense.

By destroying the evidence, Goodell brought this speculation upon his league. It was a stupid move, one that MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE given his explanation. Something stinks, pure and simple.

MR NFLFAN
02-01-2008, 03:14 PM
No of tapes taken from the pats = 6.

Confirmed all the 6 tapes had coaches waving all 3 [1 real 1 and 2 dumby ones which team use to cover their signals] waving and then down in the monitor.

In one camera 1 asst coach is waving only at the camera .

confirmed that patriots are not the only team doing it and he wanted to send the message to other teams doing it.


Hey satz you don't have a link to the transcript of the interview do you?

satz
02-01-2008, 03:15 PM
As i mentioned in another thread jimmy johnson went on radio and claimed when he was in miami they circumvented the 15 sec qb/coach audio cutoff a few days ago. I think shannan got caught taping before too during a past super bowl pratice in afew years back .At the end of the day this is a business and they will not dig .

if they go after one then that teams are going to raise hell , this year in indianapolis the pats coach to qb communication went out in the first quater .No one complained .
In the same game the harriosn pick of manning the defensive coach felt that colts coaches read their signals and gave manning their called to get a completion in the first half .In the second half they send the same signal and harrison aligned in the same position.After the snap he routed to pick manning at the previous location. No one will dig this and loss money.

It was live on all radio channels from arizona..probabily will be on NFL network.

MR NFLFAN
02-01-2008, 03:29 PM
After pacman and vick, what do you think the NFL would do if it had a full fledged scandal on it's hands? Some evidence showing that the Patsies possibly cheated in a Super Bowl or something of that nature.

Goodell says they destroyed (they actually burned them, wtf?) the evidence to make sure the Patsies would never again have this advantage.

He's says this despite the fact that the Patsies swore they turned over everything and made no copies. That doesn't make any sense.

By destroying the evidence, Goodell brought this speculation upon his league. It was a stupid move, one that MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE given his explanation. Something stinks, pure and simple.

I guess you think evaluating those tapes and their actual usage is an easy thing to do. From watching the evidence tape that got to Fox I don't believe anything from that tape would have been able to be used during the game on that day. Jimmy Johnson said he used to video tape the other teams "D" signals and then sync those up to the game tape provided by the league. The game tape from the league is being shot at the same time so it would have been impossible for any syncing until a later time. How stupid would Mangini be to not change up his "D" signals from game one to game two? Frankly I don't think that jets tape or any jets tapes of jets "D" signals were any advantage to the Pats. The mere fact that Mangini was in NE and probably knew exactly how the tapes would be used makes those "D" signal tapes worthless. Belichick broke the video tape rule for sure but I think the whole spygate thing and the advantages of the tapes was really blown out of proportion big time.

MR NFLFAN
02-01-2008, 03:47 PM
Really? Wow. You have quite the scoop there man. Where did you get that inside info? :lol:

Of course, it's not surprising to hear Patsie fans crying the same "everybody is doing it" refrain, despite there being no evidence showing that. No, the only evidence that has thus far come to light indicates only the Patsies cheating.


What would you like a Easterbrook article? Easterbrook speals out insinuation after insinuation with out an ounce of proof yet you believe everything he says.

As far as the "everyone is doing it" I don't believe everyone was doing it but with that being said I also don't believe the Pats were the only team using video tapes. The evidence of this being true is the fact that one of miami's ex coaches Jimmy Johnson admitted to doing the same thing yet you ignore that as the evidence it is. When a retired coach stands up and admits to using video tape to capture the "D" signals some 18 yrs ago how could you for an instant not believe others were doing the same? One of Johnsons coaches told him he had done it in the past and told Jimmy how to do it. Plain good old common sense tells me that taping has gone on for years and years as far back as 18 yrs ago and who knows probably even still goes on today. Ne may have been the only team to get caught but they sure as hell weren't the only team doing it.

HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 03:53 PM
What would you like a Easterbrook article? Easterbrook speals out insinuation after insinuation with out an ounce of proof yet you believe everything he says.

As far as the "everyone is doing it" I don't believe everyone was doing it but with that being said I also don't believe the Pats were the only team using video tapes. The evidence of this being true is the fact that one of miami's ex coaches Jimmy Johnson admitted to doing the same thing yet you ignore that as the evidence it is. When a retired coach stands up and admits to using video tape to capture the "D" signals some 18 yrs ago how could you for an instant not believe others were doing the same? One of Johnsons coaches told him he had done it in the past and told Jimmy how to do it. Plain good old common sense tells me that taping has gone on for years and years as far back as 18 yrs ago and who knows probably even still goes on today. Ne may have been the only team to get caught but they sure as hell weren't the only team doing it.

Look I agree with you to an extent, Infact I posted earlier I may take the same line If this had happened to the Phins. I think what pisses us off as Phin fans is we want to hear Pats fans admit that your team cheated.

Don't make excuses, don't say other teams did it, don't act like it not's a big deal. Admit your team was into some shady stuff and we can move on. The more Pat fans try to defend it the longer threads like this one will be around.

HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 03:55 PM
BTW I wasn't singling you out inparticular.

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 04:10 PM
He also said that when these tapes were taken 5 months ago that they were from the 2007 pre-season and 2006 season.

The Confessor
02-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Just one question?

Why burn the tapes? Until somebody accountable answers this, the entire thing is going to go to congress, and the Cheatriots and their croney (Roger Goodell) WILL be exposed

MR NFLFAN
02-01-2008, 04:32 PM
Look I agree with you to an extent, Infact I posted earlier I may take the same line If this had happened to the Phins. I think what pisses us off as Phin fans is we want to hear Pats fans admit that your team cheated.

Don't make excuses, don't say other teams did it, don't act like it not's a big deal. Admit your team was into some shady stuff and we can move on. The more Pat fans try to defend it the longer threads like this one will be around.

Belichick was caught video taping "D" signals from a place he shouldn't have been. That was against the league rule. You are free to call him a cheater or anything else you wish too. For some reason you think that saying other teams did it is an excuse but thats not really the case. Its the truth and as I stated we have an ex head coach admit it on the record. It doesn't make Belichick innocent that others were doing it but it does put this big injustice into a better perspective. You must have read Johnsons statements regarding using video taping when he was a coach? Does it make you wonder that perhaps in the days of the Jimmy Johnson coached Dolphins there was illegal taping done by Johnsons staff? Maybe we need Johnson to quantify his admittal even further for the fans of those teams that he could have cheated for? Should his statement now put a shadow over those teams he coached in the NFL...like both Miami and Dallas? We don't need any tapes we have the head coach admitting he broke that rule? Are you willing to admit there is a very strong possibility that the dolphins also cheated?
We now also have heard that the jets had an extra camera man taping from the EZ if game two meeting with the pats last season. According to the patriots FO the jets did not have permission to put an extra camera man in the EZ for taping. Should we all now jump to conclusions about what this extra man was actually taping?

As far as these type of threads being around I neither care nor can control that. I look at the league with out any rose colored glasses and dam near every coach walks a fine line with the league rule book looking for any place an advantage can be gained. You could say that is one of the things that seperate the average coaches from the top coaches.

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 04:59 PM
Just one question?

Why burn the tapes? Until somebody accountable answers this, the entire thing is going to go to congress, and the Greatriots and their croney (Roger Goodell) WILL be exposed


He answered this 50 times. He said he destroyed the tapes because they were consistant with everything the organization told him. They were burned so they wouldn't be leaked out and if a video shows up somewhere he'll know he was lied to. Don't worry, there isn't a conspiracy out there to keep the Dolphins down and the Patriots up.

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 05:01 PM
Look I agree with you to an extent, Infact I posted earlier I may take the same line If this had happened to the Phins. I think what pisses us off as Phin fans is we want to hear Pats fans admit that your team cheated.

Don't make excuses, don't say other teams did it, don't act like it not's a big deal. Admit your team was into some shady stuff and we can move on. The more Pat fans try to defend it the longer threads like this one will be around.


you expect patriots fans to let the haters just walk all over them?

The Confessor
02-01-2008, 05:02 PM
He answered this 50 times. He said he destroyed the tapes because they were consistant with everything the organization told him. They were burned so they wouldn't be leaked out and if a video shows up somewhere he'll know he was lied to. Don't worry, there isn't a conspiracy out there to keep the Dolphins down and the Patriots up.


Yeah, that makes SOOO much sense. Burn them so that they dont leak out? What the heck is that? Goodell and the NFL has LOTS of answering to do...sorry to put an * on everything your beloved stands for...but they did it to themselves:up:



EDIT: IF it is so elementary shut and close, why did he have to answer it 50 times? Just asking...

Also, why are you getting so worked up about it if it is absolutely nothing? ....once again..just aksing?

The Confessor
02-01-2008, 05:08 PM
He answered this 50 times. He said he destroyed the tapes because they were consistant with everything the organization told him. They were burned so they wouldn't be leaked out and if a video shows up somewhere he'll know he was lied to. Don't worry, there isn't a conspiracy out there to keep the Dolphins down and the Patriots up.


Also, just for the record, this is exactly what Goodell said




"Goodell said the tapes and notes on the investigation were destroyed to ensure that the Patriots "would not secure any possible competitive advantage as a result of the misconduct."


Sorry, but this makes ABSOLUTELY no sense what-so-ever. Dont you think the Patriots have already made copies of whatever they turned over? So, in essence, all they did by destroying the tapes was cover up whatever was on them from everybody else....

unluckyluciano
02-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Belichick was caught video taping "D" signals from a place he shouldn't have been. That was against the league rule. You are free to call him a cheater or anything else you wish too. For some reason you think that saying other teams did it is an excuse but thats not really the case.

Not an excuse a weak justification yes.

HaRdKoReXXX
02-01-2008, 05:45 PM
you expect patriots fans to let the haters just walk all over them?

No I don't expect it. But remember that this is (for now) a Miami Dolphins meassge board. Pat fans know what to expect on this site and can deal with the criticism otherwise they wouldn't be here Im sure.

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 06:21 PM
Yeah, that makes SOOO much sense. Burn them so that they dont leak out? What the heck is that? Goodell and the NFL has LOTS of answering to do...sorry to put an * on everything your beloved stands for...but they did it to themselves:up:


You can put the star there if you want, it's not official.


Also, why are you getting so worked up about it if it is absolutely nothing? ....once again..just aksing?


Who's getting worked up? I only see you replying 5 times to one of my posts. Who's really getting worked up?

MR NFLFAN
02-01-2008, 06:23 PM
Also, just for the record, this is exactly what Goodell said



Sorry, but this makes ABSOLUTELY no sense what-so-ever. Dont you think the Patriots have already made copies of whatever they turned over? So, in essence, all they did by destroying the tapes was cover up whatever was on them from everybody else....

Maybe Goodell was protecting the entire NFL all 32 teams? I mean we did see a clip of the tape on Fox sports. How'd they get a copy? How secure is the league office anyway? If fox could get a copy then why couldn't someone else?
Then the only way to be certain no more copies would be leaked out to ANYONE would have been to destroy them.

MR NFLFAN
02-01-2008, 06:45 PM
Not an excuse a weak justification yes.

There is no justification in all this. I don't think the league really wants to open its closets to the public, lord knows what else could hiding in there.
Look what happened to the Catholic church when they opened their closets.

We fans forget that the NFL is first and foremost a business.

TomBradyWoot
02-01-2008, 08:43 PM
It's too bad because I knew you wouldn't just take him at his word and have to feel there's some conspiracy behind everything. The only "conspiracy" would be that it had in those tapes other teams doing the same things. Jimmy Johnson has said many many times he did it with the Cowboys AND the Dolphins.

Should we say Dallas Cheatboys back to back Super Bowl champs*? Or Miami Dolcheats! No. It happens. Goodell just wanted to put a stop to it, had his first opportunity after Mangini (Or Tannabaum or someone in the organization, whoever it was) blew the whistle because he knew the deal, and let people know this won't be tolerated anymore.

Gator Mike
02-01-2008, 08:56 PM
After pacman and vick, what do you think the NFL would do if it had a full fledged scandal on it's hands? Some evidence showing that the Patsies possibly cheated in a Super Bowl or something of that nature.
You realize that the last time the Patriots were in the Super Bowl, taping the opposing coaches in the same manner that they taped the Jets wouldn't have been considered illegal, right?

They only changed the rules regarding taping very recently because the NFL felt it was getting out of hand.

satz
02-01-2008, 09:22 PM
Just one question?

Why burn the tapes? Until somebody accountable answers this, the entire thing is going to go to congress, and the Cheatriots and their croney (Roger Goodell) WILL be exposed

Goodell said a copy of one of six tapes made either in 2006 or during the 2007 preseason had, indeed, made its way to the media before all the tapes were destroyed.

He went public saying he will not show these tapes and one of them end up on TV.As a boss how do you react for your FO mess .

"They may have collected it within the rules, but we couldn't determine that. So we felt that it should be destroyed," he said.

The Confessor
02-01-2008, 11:02 PM
It's too bad because I knew you wouldn't just take him at his word and have to feel there's some conspiracy behind everything. The only "conspiracy" would be that it had in those tapes other teams doing the same things. Jimmy Johnson has said many many times he did it with the Cowboys AND the Dolphins.

Should we say Dallas Cheatboys back to back Super Bowl champs*? Or Miami Dolcheats! No. It happens. Goodell just wanted to put a stop to it, had his first opportunity after Mangini (Or Tannabaum or someone in the organization, whoever it was) blew the whistle because he knew the deal, and let people know this won't be tolerated anymore.


Ohhhh excellent



http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


This is too easy.

:sidelol:

Jets81
02-02-2008, 11:48 AM
From the Boston Herald:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1070762&srvc=home&position=0

PHOENIX - One night before the Patriots (http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots.bg) [team stats (http://scores.heraldinteractive.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=nfl/teams/077/team.aspx?id=077)] face the Giants in Super Bowl XLII, new allegations have emerged about a Patriots employee taping the Rams’ final walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI.
According to a source, a member of the team’s video department filmed the Rams’ final walkthrough before that 2002 game. The next day, the Patriots upset St. Louis, 20-17, on a last-second field goal by Adam Vinatieri for their first championship.
A walkthrough involves practicing plays at reduced speed without contact or pads. It is common for teams to film their own walkthroughs and practices.



When contacted last night, Patriots vice president of media relations Stacey James said: “The coaches have no knowledge of it.”
Yesterday, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) stated that he plans to summon NFL commissioner Roger Goodell before Congress to explain why he destroyed tapes that showed the Patriots stealing defensive signals over the last two years.


After his state of the NFL press conference yesterday, Goodell was asked if the league’s investigation into the Pats included allegations that they recorded the Rams walkthrough in 2002.
“I’m not aware of that,” Goodell said.
“We have no information on that,” seconded NFL spokesman Greg Aiello.
According to a source close to the team during the 2001 season, here’s what happened. On Feb. 2, 2002, one day before the Patriots’ Super Bowl game against heavily favored St. Louis in New Orleans, the Patriots visited the Superdome for their final walkthrough.


After completing the walkthrough, they had their team picture taken and the Rams then took the field. According to the source, a member of the team’s video staff stayed behind after attending the team’s walkthrough and filmed St. Louis’ walkthrough.


At no point was he asked to identify himself or produce a press pass, the source said. The cameraman rode the media shuttle back to the hotel with news photographers when the Rams walkthrough was completed, the source said.


It’s not known what the cameraman did with the tape from there. It’s also not known if he made the recording on his own initiative or if he was instructed to make the recording by someone with the Patriots or anyone else.


The next day, the Patriots opened a 14-3 halftime lead on the Rams, who were 14-point favorites and operators of an offense known as “The Greatest Show on Turf.”
The Rams didn’t begin moving the ball until the fourth quarter, when their 14-point rally pulled the teams into a 17-17 tie with less than two minutes remaining. Tom Brady (http://www.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&keyword=Tom+Brady&mode=score&sorting=pubdate) [stats (http://scores.heraldinteractive.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=nfl/teams/077/playeraaa.aspx?id=678,team=077)] then led the most famous drive in Patriots history for the winning field goal.


The Patriots were fined $750,000 and docked a first-round draft pick for breaking league policy and filming the Jets’ defensive signals from the sideline in September.


Asked yesterday if he believed the Pats used similar films to achieve their three Super Bowl victories, Goodell was adamant.

The Confessor
02-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Hmmmm......

If it looks, smells and spreads like a turd....chances are pretty good

satz
02-03-2008, 04:12 PM
Intresting fact

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...?CID=N00001604 (http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allcontrib.asp?CID=N00001604)

senator`s top 2 contributers comcast no 2 and now 1 law firm Blank Rome, LLP, which REPRESENTS COMCAST against the NFL OVER THE NFL NETWORK ISSUE.

Seems like this will turn more anti-nfl more than ever.

MR NFLFAN
02-03-2008, 05:18 PM
Intresting fact

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...?CID=N00001604 (http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/allcontrib.asp?CID=N00001604)

senator`s top 2 contributers comcast no 2 and now 1 law firm Blank Rome, LLP, which REPRESENTS COMCAST against the NFL OVER THE NFL NETWORK ISSUE.

Seems like this will turn more anti-nfl more than ever.


Good info
The Truth about Arlen Specter

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/specter.htm

unluckyluciano
02-03-2008, 05:40 PM
Good info
The Truth about Arlen Specter

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/specter.htm

Did someone say the guy was a hero? Nice deflection though. :woot:

Coral Reefer
02-06-2008, 03:40 AM
Good info
The Truth about Arlen Specter

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/specter.htm

:lol:

That was absurd!

Dredge up whatever you want about this guy. I'd imagine any Pats rep, media person or fan would go full bore after anyone who dares question their verbal assurance that nothing questionable has been going on in Pats land. Whatever it takes to get someone to actually investigate all these mysterious made up charges against the Pats!

Where theres smoke there's fire.
If the fireman putting it out is in it for questionable reasons I don't care as long as it's put out.

MR NFLFAN
02-06-2008, 12:28 PM
Did someone say the guy was a hero? Nice deflection though. :woot:


Seeing as everyone likes to beat their chest in search of the truth I felt a little background on the great Senator Specter was in order. Specter has too many conflicts of interest to run an investigation especially with regards to the NFL.

This is like leaving the fox in charge of the hen house.

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 12:47 PM
I am just surprised there are any Pats fans left. Figured the canyons under bridges and overpasses would be littered with dead corpses by now

MR NFLFAN
02-06-2008, 01:26 PM
I am just surprised there are any Pats fans left. Figured the canyons under bridges and overpasses would be littered with dead corpses by now


Sorry to disappoint you. It definately hurt to lose the SB but how down can a patriots fan get with an 18-1 season?

Coral Reefer
02-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Sorry to disappoint you. It definately hurt to lose the SB but how down can a patriots fan get with an 18-1 season?

Normally I'd agree but when the only loss of the year a team suffers is the Super Bowl it's quite a shift to go from gloating about making history to suffering the biggest choke ever from one team in a season.

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 02:08 PM
Normally I'd agree but when the only loss of the year a team suffers is the Super Bowl it's quite a shift to go from gloating about making history to suffering the biggest choke ever from one team in a season.


Thanks CR, if people didnt quote that guy, I would have absolutely ZERO idea of what he says in his posts...:lol:

MR NFLFAN
02-06-2008, 05:04 PM
Normally I'd agree but when the only loss of the year a team suffers is the Super Bowl it's quite a shift to go from gloating about making history to suffering the biggest choke ever from one team in a season.


Well when it came to gloating this season I kind of thought the dolphins stood at the top of the gloating heap. I sincerely hope no other team ever comes close to going undefeated again cause I don't think i could take another moment of listening to motor mouth Morris or Don Shula.

Zeke0123
02-06-2008, 05:20 PM
Well when it came to gloating this season I kind of thought the dolphins stood at the top of the gloating heap. I sincerely hope no other team ever comes close to going undefeated again cause I don't think i could take another moment of listening to motor mouth Morris or Don Shula.No Mr NFLFAN you would be wrong the Smug/Hubris bar was set at a level no other franchise or fanbase could reach by the Patriots this year...Maybe you arent included in that group I dont know but even your Boston sports media took the cake.

The 72 Squad does a little crowing every year they EARNED it..A big piece of the Patriot nation did it before they sealed the deal and it was annoying to say the least.

I would like to thank the Pats for cementing the Perfect Season even deeper into the annals of football lore tho.. so for that they have my appreciation.

cnc66
02-06-2008, 05:36 PM
Well when it came to gloating this season I kind of thought the dolphins stood at the top of the gloating heap. I sincerely hope no other team ever comes close to going undefeated again cause I don't think i could take another moment of listening to motor mouth Morris or Don Shula.


hahahaha, Shula was right, he just used poor taste and said it out loud, Mercury.. well, it's all he has, we know it, you know it, he even lost his ring.. he's like the in law that just shows up at the holidays without being invited.

But bro ease up... y'all just performed the choke of the century.. no other team arrived at the SB undefeated except us and you... and before you actually earned it, the Mass. Governor was planning an official State holiday in honor of the undefeated, greatest team ever..

so, don't come at us any more about gloating... ya hear...

an official HOLIDAY.. shut down the government, the schools, even the garbage men get to stay home.. literally, a sanctioned, payed for by the taxpayers statewide gloat...

18-1 ... as Jackie used to say out on the Beach, "Howw ssweet it is !"

Zeke0123
02-06-2008, 05:41 PM
hahahaha, Shula was right, he just used poor taste and said it out loud, Mercury.. well, it's all he has, we know it, you know it, he even lost his ring.. he's like the in law that just shows up at the holidays without being invited.

But bro ease up... y'all just performed the choke of the century.. no other team arrived at the SB undefeated except us and you... and before you actually earned it, the Mass. Governor was planning an official State holiday in honor of the undefeated, greatest team ever..

so, don't come at us any more about gloating... ya hear...

an official HOLIDAY.. shut down the government, the schools, even the garbage men get to stay home.. literally, a sanctioned, payed for by the taxpayers statewide gloat...
18-1 ... as Jackie used to say out on the Beach, "Howw ssweet it is !"Cheers Mate.

MR NFLFAN
02-06-2008, 05:57 PM
No Mr NFLFAN you would be wrong the Smug/Hubris bar was set at a level no other franchise or fanbase could reach by the Patriots this year...Maybe you arent included in that group I dont know but even your Boston sports media took the cake.

The 72 Squad does a little crowing every year they EARNED it..A big piece of the Patriot nation did it before they sealed the deal and it was annoying to say the least.

I would like to thank the Pats for cementing the Perfect Season even deeper into the annals of football lore tho.. so for that they have my appreciation.


A little crowing would have been fine but Morris hee hawed like a jackass. :lol:

Zeke0123
02-06-2008, 06:00 PM
A little crowing would have been fine but Morris hee hawed like a jackass. :lol:Im not even going to TRY and make an excuse for Morris he is what he is.. and like cnc66 says its all he has.

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 06:33 PM
Im not even going to TRY and make an excuse for Morris he is what he is.. and like cnc66 says its all he has.


But, unlike any of the Chetriots, he DOES have that :up:

Mike13
02-06-2008, 08:50 PM
Sorry to disappoint you. It definately hurt to lose the SB but how down can a patriots fan get with an 18-1 season

Putting on a brave face huh?

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Sorry to disappoint you. It definately hurt to lose the SB but how down can a patriots fan get with an 18-1 season? face down?

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 09:28 PM
Except lost in all of this, is that he's only doing it because of the Eagles.

You guys can complain all you want about the NFL destroying the tapes, the reason they were destroyed is because it showed other teams "cheating" as well. The fact you choose not to accept that is fine. Yeah but they didnt win SuperBowls. Wouldnt it be funny if you're not only the first franchise to go 18-1 and LOSE a SuperBowl but a couple of your SuperBowl titles are stripped as well due to your cheating ways:sidelol:

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 09:31 PM
Because the NFL has nothing to do with what he should be worring about. He is doing this to find votes. Which he most likely wouldn't need if he was doing his job right.

This is not steriods, its a team that got caught and the NFL took care of it, I agree destroying the tapes was bad judgement, but it has nothing to do with the government.

Better he harass the Patriots then figure out new ways to steal my money. I am all for him being aas distracted as possible from the things you want him to concentrate on

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 09:37 PM
There is no justification in all this. I don't think the league really wants to open its closets to the public, lord knows what else could hiding in there.
Look what happened to the Catholic church when they opened their closets.
.

The Catholic Church?:sidelol: What, did they burn tapes of Brady with little boys or something

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 09:41 PM
No Mr NFLFAN you would be wrong the Smug/Hubris bar was set at a level no other franchise or fanbase could reach by the Patriots this year...Maybe you arent included in that group I dont know but even your Boston sports media took the cake.

The 72 Squad does a little crowing every year they EARNED it..A big piece of the Patriot nation did it before they sealed the deal and it was annoying to say the least.

I would like to thank the Pats for cementing the Perfect Season even deeper into the annals of football lore tho.. so for that they have my appreciation.

Yeah and the 72 Dolphins also send their thanks. They really appreciate the money they earned off of the greatest choke job ever. That Reebok Perfectville money is really appreciated and I'm sure it was used to buy some really tasty champagne:sidelol:

MR NFLFAN
02-07-2008, 12:24 AM
Yeah and the 72 Dolphins also send their thanks. They really appreciate the money they earned off of the greatest choke job ever. That Reebok Perfectville money is really appreciated and I'm sure it was used to buy some really tasty champagne:sidelol:


Gezz I hope they don't let Morris near that champagne. :D

adamprez2003
02-07-2008, 12:28 AM
Gezz I hope they don't let Morris near that champagne. :D:lol::lol: That was a good comeback. Touche' Mr Nfl :up:

unluckyluciano
02-07-2008, 01:31 AM
Seeing as everyone likes to beat their chest in search of the truth I felt a little background on the great Senator Specter was in order. Specter has too many conflicts of interest to run an investigation especially with regards to the NFL.

This is like leaving the fox in charge of the hen house.
No this is like an attempt to smear the investigation and to make it seem less legit. Politics as usual I suppose though.

MR NFLFAN
02-07-2008, 02:17 AM
No this is like an attempt to smear the investigation and to make it seem less legit. Politics as usual I suppose though.


If you want it legit then get someone else besides Arlen Specter to investigate.

Zeke0123
02-07-2008, 02:20 AM
If you want it legit then get someone else besides Arlen Specter to investigate.Agreed Specter is a tool with alterior motives..doesnt mean there is nothing to this thing tho.

MR NFLFAN
02-07-2008, 03:39 AM
Agreed Specter is a tool with alterior motives..doesnt mean there is nothing to this thing tho.


I didn't say there was nothing to it, because we don't know that. Thats what the investigation is for. I just don't think Specter is the right guy to be running this.

late again
02-07-2008, 04:33 AM
I didn't say there was nothing to it, because we don't know that. Thats what the investigation is for. I just don't think Specter is the right guy to be running this.


Maybe; maybe not. Read the following commentary.

he Economic Espionage Act of 1996 (18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 1831 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1831.html)–1839 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1839.html)) makes the theft or misappropriation of a trade secret (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_secret) a federal crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_crime). This law contains two provisions criminalizing two sorts of activity. The first, 18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 1831(a) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1831%28a%29.html), criminalizes the theft of trade secrets to benefit foreign powers; the second, 18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 1832 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1832.html), criminalizes their theft for commercial or economic purposes. (The statutory penalties are different for the two offenses.)
The Economic Espionage Act, 1996 has extraterritorial jurisdiction where:
The offender is a U.S. citizen;
The victim is a U.S. citizen;
The offence was intended to have, or had, a direct substantial effect in the U.S.This legislation has created much debate within the business intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_intelligence) community regarding the legality and ethics of various forms of information gathering designed to provide business decision-makers with competitive advantages in areas such as strategy, marketing, research and development, or negotiations. Most business intelligence (also known as competitive intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_intelligence) practitioners) rely largely on the collection and analysis of open source information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_information) from which they identify events, patterns, and trends of actionable interest. However, some techniques focus on the collection of publicly available information that is in limited circulation. This may be obtained through a number of direct and indirect techniques that share common origins in the national intelligence community. The use of these techniques is often debated from legal and ethical standpoints based on this Act.
One such example is the collection and analysis of gray literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_literature). The techniques for developing actionable intelligence from limited circulation / limited availability documents such as selected corporate publications can raise difficult legal and ethical questions under both intellectual property laws and the Economic Espionage Act.
The Society for Competitive Intelligence Professionals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Competitive_Intelligence_Professionals) provides training and publications which outline a series of guidelines designed to support business intelligence professionals seeking to comply with both the legal restrictions of the EEA as well as the ethical considerations involved.
The EEA is a uniquely American law, developed on the basis of a national philosophy that emphasizes a "level playing field" for all business competitors that arose in no small part due to the size and diversity of the American private sector. Many other nations not only lack such legislation, but actively support industrial espionage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage) using both their national intelligence services as well as less formal mechanisms including bribery and corruption. The United States Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_the_National_Counterintelligence_Executive) publishes an annual report on Foreign Economic Collection and Industrial Espionage mandated by the U.S. Congress which outlines these espionage activities of many foreign nations.
The United States does not publish records of its own indulgence in state-sanctioned industrial espionage. In 2000, the European Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament) which voted to carry out an investigation into the international surveillance project ECHELON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON). That same year the French government also began an official investigation into allegations that several collaborating nations may be using the program for illegal purposes. U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) documents had been revealed to the British press, showing that the U.S. has been using the technology to monitor European business communications. The French and European allegations centred on the suspicion that such information was being passed to U.S. firms.
In 2000, in response to European concerns, a former U.S. Director of Central Intelligence, James Woolsy, said (in the March 17, 2000 Wall Street Journal editorial) that if there is collection, it's usually focused on bribery by European companies, not on access to technologies. Woolsey said "most European technology just isn’t worth our stealing." However, Woolsey's intervention may have raised more concern than it quieted.

shula_guy
02-13-2008, 02:10 AM
This conversation is a little old but Im going to throw in my two cents anyhow.

The Patriots are guilty of breaking the rules. That is agreed upon. It makes no difference if all 32 teams are cheating, or just one. Only the Patriots got caught. Mangini blew the whistle on him and he did it publically. The leauge investigated it and penalized the team.

The leauges investigation and punishment was a controversial decission. Enough so, that a US senator saw an opprotunity to score some political points out of it. Spectors motivation is suspect but calling for hearings is not unjustified.

I have trouble with the term cheating here. They violated rules. How severe was the violation? I dont know and apparently noone will because the leauge deystroyed the evidence before it could be viewed, and evaluated by an independent non bias party. That is a big problem. It leads people to assume the worst.

If the information gathered was really inconsquental, then the Pats should be calling for Godells head on a stick. There is no excuse for deystroying evidence that involves the integrity of a multi billion dollar corporation. What if this was enron and you were told the evidence was viewed internally and then deystroyed. It would not sit well with alot of people.

This thing is a big mess. Patriot fans in general come off with a "circle the wagons" type persona over this. They should be the loudest voices of protest in this. They should want a full, fair, complete investigation with the results released publicly to exaunerate thier reputation. If they are only guily of something petty, this will put it to rest once and for all. If it is something more, then they stand with chacter and denounce thier hometown franchise, because it isnt a reputation that thier community wants to be repesented as.

Patriots community in general is not doing that. They are coming off as resentfull and defensive. People are thinking the worst of them because of it.

I think some of the critizims about the teams smugness and arrogance is justifable and accurate, but some of it is overblown too. There has been a lot of insulting manuvers by both sides, and its had a snowball effect all season. Both sides seem to be caught up in trying to out do the other side.

All in all I have to say this is one of the ugliest football seasons I can remember going all the way back to the players strike.

late again
02-13-2008, 03:17 AM
Sorry to disappoint you. It definately hurt to lose the SB but how down can a patriots fan get with an 18-1 season?

Sorry but those remarks are a complete about-face from what Pats fans were saying up until losing the SB. Before then it was a bunch of "it's all about the ring"; it's all about championships"; all that matters is winning Super Bowls"; "anything less than another Lombardi is failure"; "the 07 Patriots are going to erase the 72 Dolphins from the history books" etc, etc, ad nauseam.
After all that, it's good to know that some of you guys are able to regain some perspective and appreciate things for what they are.

MR NFLFAN
02-13-2008, 02:06 PM
This conversation is a little old but Im going to throw in my two cents anyhow.

The Patriots are guilty of breaking the rules. That is agreed upon. It makes no difference if all 32 teams are cheating, or just one. Only the Patriots got caught. Mangini blew the whistle on him and he did it publically. The leauge investigated it and penalized the team.

The leauges investigation and punishment was a controversial decission. Enough so, that a US senator saw an opprotunity to score some political points out of it. Spectors motivation is suspect but calling for hearings is not unjustified.

I have trouble with the term cheating here. They violated rules. How severe was the violation? I dont know and apparently noone will because the leauge deystroyed the evidence before it could be viewed, and evaluated by an independent non bias party. That is a big problem. It leads people to assume the worst.

If the information gathered was really inconsquental, then the Pats should be calling for Godells head on a stick. There is no excuse for deystroying evidence that involves the integrity of a multi billion dollar corporation. What if this was enron and you were told the evidence was viewed internally and then deystroyed. It would not sit well with alot of people.

This thing is a big mess. Patriot fans in general come off with a "circle the wagons" type persona over this. They should be the loudest voices of protest in this. They should want a full, fair, complete investigation with the results released publicly to exaunerate thier reputation. If they are only guily of something petty, this will put it to rest once and for all. If it is something more, then they stand with chacter and denounce thier hometown franchise, because it isnt a reputation that thier community wants to be repesented as.

Patriots community in general is not doing that. They are coming off as resentfull and defensive. People are thinking the worst of them because of it.

I think some of the critizims about the teams smugness and arrogance is justifable and accurate, but some of it is overblown too. There has been a lot of insulting manuvers by both sides, and its had a snowball effect all season. Both sides seem to be caught up in trying to out do the other side.

All in all I have to say this is one of the ugliest football seasons I can remember going all the way back to the players strike.

I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. It has since been confirmed by Roger Goodell that what he got was 6 more video tapes just as we saw from the leaked fox tape. Now we hear of some kid who worked for the Patriots for a couple of yrs and was fired by the team who claims to have something. Are these accusations or does this guy actually have some physical proof? I find the timing of this source to be suspect at best and wonder where was this guy some 5 months ago?

You mentioned that it makes no difference weather all 32 teams were cheating or not as the Patriots were the only team to be caught. Then we heard Jimmy Johnson publically admit to doing the same thing but most fans have turned a deaf ear to his statements which in my eyes are equal to confession of guilt. Why is that?

My thoughts on it are that this indeed had been a common thing throughout the league for many years. The commisioner who isn't a stupid man and had knowledge of this as he aluded to with his statements that to most in professional sports it is widely known that signals are stolen in one form or another. I don't believe the league wants to really investigate what it already knows yet has turned its own blind eye on for many years. Where does it end or better yet does it ever end? Should Senator Specter depose Jimmy Johnson and have him name names of those he had contact with during his coaching days that also used the same practice? I think this could expose the entire league and all its dirty little secrets. As a pats fan I would love nothing better than to get to the truth and I'm talking the complete truth but as an NFL fan I'm afraid the truth would probably destroy the league.

I see this turning into another "Mitchel" report

HaRdKoReXXX
02-13-2008, 02:37 PM
I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. It has since been confirmed by Roger Goodell that what he got was 6 more video tapes just as we saw from the leaked fox tape. Now we hear of some kid who worked for the Patriots for a couple of yrs and was fired by the team who claims to have something. Are these accusations or does this guy actually have some physical proof? I find the timing of this source to be suspect at best and wonder where was this guy some 5 months ago?

You mentioned that it makes no difference weather all 32 teams were cheating or not as the Patriots were the only team to be caught. Then we heard Jimmy Johnson publically admit to doing the same thing but most fans have turned a deaf ear to his statements which in my eyes are equal to confession of guilt. Why is that?

My thoughts on it are that this indeed had been a common thing throughout the league for many years. The commisioner who isn't a stupid man and had knowledge of this as he aluded to with his statements that to most in professional sports it is widely known that signals are stolen in one form or another. I don't believe the league wants to really investigate what it already knows yet has turned its own blind eye on for many years. Where does it end or better yet does it ever end? Should Senator Specter depose Jimmy Johnson and have him name names of those he had contact with during his coaching days that also used the same practice? I think this could expose the entire league and all its dirty little secrets. As a pats fan I would love nothing better than to get to the truth and I'm talking the complete truth but as an NFL fan I'm afraid the truth would probably destroy the league.

I see this turning into another "Mitchel" report


Next time can you provide a link or video of Jimmy Johnson admitting to doing these things you speak of? Others here may have hear of this but I haven't, Thanks.

BTW if you really want to know why alot of people are dogging the Pats when "supposedly" other teams are doing similar things, I'll tell you.

A) Your coach is one of if not the biggest D-Bag in the NFL.
B) Your QB is cocky and arrogant
C) And no one likes your owner.

So don't consider it a shock that some people out there (wink) probably didnt mind to see your team get caught. You are the company you keep my friend...

MR NFLFAN
02-13-2008, 07:04 PM
Next time can you provide a link or video of Jimmy Johnson admitting to doing these things you speak of? Others here may have hear of this but I haven't, Thanks.

BTW if you really want to know why alot of people are dogging the Pats when "supposedly" other teams are doing similar things, I'll tell you.

A) Your coach is one of if not the biggest D-Bag in the NFL.
B) Your QB is cocky and arrogant
C) And no one likes your owner.

So don't consider it a shock that some people out there (wink) probably didnt mind to see your team get caught. You are the company you keep my friend...

Don't forget

D) no one like a team that wins too much :D

Miami 13
02-13-2008, 09:57 PM
Don't forget

D) no one like a team that wins too much :D
I loved NE's 18-1 failure season....

TomBradyWoot
02-13-2008, 10:17 PM
I loved NE's 18-1 failure season....


And I'd take an 18-1 "failure" season over a 1-15 FAILURE season.:woot:

MR NFLFAN
02-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Next time can you provide a link or video of Jimmy Johnson admitting to doing these things you speak of? Others here may have hear of this but I haven't, Thanks.

BTW if you really want to know why alot of people are dogging the Pats when "supposedly" other teams are doing similar things, I'll tell you.

A) Your coach is one of if not the biggest D-Bag in the NFL.
B) Your QB is cocky and arrogant
C) And no one likes your owner.

So don't consider it a shock that some people out there (wink) probably didnt mind to see your team get caught. You are the company you keep my friend...

Here you go. Note that Johnson admits to video taping and circumventing the 15 sec cutoff rule.

I believe had this not been leaked to fox sports we wouldn't have even heard about it just as we never heard about the league finding out and telling him to stop circumventing the 15 sec cutoff when he coached the dolphins.
Still think you are the company you keep my friend?

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/01/30/speculation_still_swirling_around_mcdaniels/?page=2
Signal from Johnson

Fox studio analyst Jimmy Johnson reiterated his stance that the NFL's punishment of the Patriots' illegal videotaping procedures this year was overblown. He spoke passionately on the subject.

"The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody - and I mean everybody - went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion," Johnson said, reflecting on his coaching tenure with the Cowboys. "That's just part of the game, that's stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long.
"When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, 'Here's what we do, we videotape the opposing team's signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it."
Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it. He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.
"When I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, 'OK, let's go ahead and do it.' Then the league said, 'Hey, we hear you're doing that, so don't do it anymore.'
"The point I'm making - I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters - is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say 'How far can you go without breaking the rules?' When I coached the Cowboys, we didn't have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do - that's why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.
"Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got to do it because of who it is.' I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that's why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that."

Phin-o-rama
02-13-2008, 11:57 PM
i love that the pats dynasty is so tainted...

it rules

Miami 13
02-14-2008, 12:19 AM
And I'd take an 18-1 "failure" season over a 1-15 FAILURE season.:woot:
I would take the Giants season out of anyones this year because they WON the Super Bowl. And NE's season ended in WORTHLESS FAILURE along with 31 NFL teams but it was so much sweeter seeing NE get embarrassed in the SB.

Agua
02-14-2008, 12:22 AM
*

Bellicheat taping since 2000 when he joined Pats*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_goodell_specter_11

TomBradyWoot
02-14-2008, 12:39 AM
I would take the Giants season out of anyones this year because they WON the Super Bowl. And NE's season ended in WORTHLESS FAILURE along with 31 NFL teams but it was so much sweeter seeing NE get embarrassed in the SB.


You're so bitter, it must be because you've never seen your team in a Super Bowl.:hi5:

MR NFLFAN
02-14-2008, 12:58 AM
*

Bellicheat taping since 2000 when he joined Pats*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_goodell_specter_11


I think its time that Arlen Specter deposed JJ. Perhaps that might bring him into the 21st century of the NFL.

Miami 13
02-14-2008, 01:04 AM
You're so bitter, it must be because you've never seen your team in a Super Bowl.:hi5:
lmao, bitter? I have been in such a great mood since the Super Bowl. How am I bitter? The Patriots had a worthless season, Miami had a worthless season. You play to win the Super Bowl and NE choked big time and I loved it along with every other Dolphins fan in the country :D. Actually probably every other non-NE fan in the country.:up:

late again
02-14-2008, 01:41 AM
I guess it's now awfully clear as to how Belichick went from a losing coach to a genius.

MR NFLFAN
02-14-2008, 06:31 PM
Here you go. Note that Johnson admits to video taping and circumventing the 15 sec cutoff rule.

I believe had this not been leaked to fox sports we wouldn't have even heard about it just as we never heard about the league finding out and telling him to stop circumventing the 15 sec cutoff when he coached the dolphins.
Still think you are the company you keep my friend?

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/01/30/speculation_still_swirling_around_mcdaniels/?page=2
Signal from Johnson

Fox studio analyst Jimmy Johnson reiterated his stance that the NFL's punishment of the Patriots' illegal videotaping procedures this year was overblown. He spoke passionately on the subject.

"The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody - and I mean everybody - went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion," Johnson said, reflecting on his coaching tenure with the Cowboys. "That's just part of the game, that's stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long.
"When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, 'Here's what we do, we videotape the opposing team's signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it."
Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it. He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.
"When I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, 'OK, let's go ahead and do it.' Then the league said, 'Hey, we hear you're doing that, so don't do it anymore.'
"The point I'm making - I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters - is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say 'How far can you go without breaking the rules?' When I coached the Cowboys, we didn't have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do - that's why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.
"Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got to do it because of who it is.' I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that's why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that."


I'm not surprised that this post has largely been ignored here. Jimmy Johnsons admissions as well as Belichicks actions are just the tip of the iceburg of life in the NFL. If Senator Specter believes in honesty in football this is one of the guys he should be meeting with. It gives a perspective to the way the league has handled cheating in the past and also speaks to how long this sort of thing has been allowed to go on.

Its time to open this investigation up fully to the shady practices the league has turned a blind eye to.

late again
02-14-2008, 07:39 PM
I'm not surprised that this post has largely been ignored here. Jimmy Johnsons admissions as well as Belichicks actions are just the tip of the iceburg of life in the NFL. If Senator Specter believes in honesty in football this is one of the guys he should be meeting with. It gives a perspective to the way the league has handled cheating in the past and also speaks to how long this sort of thing has been allowed to go on.

Its time to open this investigation up fully to the shady practices the league has turned a blind eye to.

Please!....Johnson says "everybody, I mean everybody went to the edge on rules". Elsewhere he states "I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters (sic)" and then he says "How far can you go without breaking the rules"
Belichick did break the rules. Belichick went over the edge. That is why your quotes from JJ are being ignored.
All that aside, I agree that if this continues an awful lot of other teams will have the covers pulled off of them. However, right now Belichick is the only one who we know for certain has been cheating.

Jets81
02-14-2008, 10:00 PM
I doubt that Beli is/was the only one to employ such practices in the NFL. He got caught though. If it's true, then Mangini is as much a part of it all as any other, and it could go even further back to Parcels. Wouldn't that be great? 2 coaches and one whatever the hell Parcels is running 3/4 if the division. They could change the name from AFC East to Spy Gate Central.

Mike13
02-14-2008, 11:27 PM
And I'd take an 18-1 "failure" season over a 1-15 FAILURE season.:woot:

Back pedaling are we?

All we heard from Pats fans is that they'd get their 4th Superbowl win this year. That they'll go down as the greatest team in history.

Well none of that happened because your team choked and so you back pedal, trying to find a bright spot between the fact that your team lost the Biggest game and the fact that your dynasty is a sham, and your coach is a fraud.

MR NFLFAN
02-14-2008, 11:39 PM
Please!....Johnson says "everybody, I mean everybody went to the edge on rules". Elsewhere he states "I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters (sic)" and then he says "How far can you go without breaking the rules"
Belichick did break the rules. Belichick went over the edge. That is why your quotes from JJ are being ignored.
All that aside, I agree that if this continues an awful lot of other teams will have the covers pulled off of them. However, right now Belichick is the only one who we know for certain has been cheating.


Please... How can you ignore this part because its the meat of his statement?

"When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, 'Here's what we do, we videotape the opposing team's signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it."
Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it. He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.
"When I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, 'OK, let's go ahead and do it.' Then the league said, 'Hey, we hear you're doing that, so don't do it anymore.'


Another HC open and freely admits this and also admits the league found out about him circumventing the 15 sec cutoff and he was told not to do it????? Its not as if someone accused him of this or that we heard a rumor in fact he flat out admitted it. How can you dismiss this?
In my mind its a confession or a guilty plea. I don't know about you but I don't remember this ever being reported to the public. How many other violations has the league covered up? After reading Johnsons statements and how the league handled it I'm certain had it not been for the leaked video we'd have never heard about spygate either. For sure Belichick is guilty but I'm sure he didn't invent this video taping stuff. Who showed Belichick how to do it? Who else has done it and for how long did the league know it was going on? Shouldn't we as fans ask those questions shouldn't we want the complete truth?
Specter made the statement that we as fans should expect honesty in the NFL and its that statement that should open the door for a complete investigation of the leagues policies along with its teams and coaches.
Johnson's admittal has shed light on the fact that the NFL hasn't run on honesty for quite some time and that spygate may only be just the icing on the cake.

Itsdahumidity
02-15-2008, 10:52 AM
"The commissioner sought to downplay the issue about the utility. But from information we've received, there was opportunity for the signals to be transmitted to the quarterback so they could utilize these signals which they had taped in violation of NFL rules," Specter said.

"There's no doubt it had an impact on the games. It is hard to tell what games were involved with the destruction of the notes and the tapes."

"They see the signals and they can then transmit that information to the quarterback through the headset," Specter said. "So when they know what the defense is, the offense knows how to run the play. And our information is that there is sufficient time, and that it has affected specific plays."



"They were calling our stuff out," (Hinds)Ward said at the time. "They knew -- especially that first championship game at Heinz Field -- they knew a lot of our calls."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_552506.html

Disgusting.