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View Full Version : QB Measurables of last ten Super Bowl Winners



adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 03:35 AM
1999 - John Elway 6' 3" 215
2000 - Kurt Warner 6'2" 220
2001 - Trent Dilfer 6'4" 225
2002 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2003 - Brad Johnson 6'5" 226
2004 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2005 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2006 - Ben Roethslisberger 6'5" 240
2007 - Peyton Manning 6'5" 230
2008 - Eli Manning 6'4" 218

Its been eight years since a QB shorter than 6'4" has won a SuperBowl. Just one of the many reasons I think we'll end up drafting Matt Ryan, Brohm or Flacco

Regan21286
02-05-2008, 03:39 AM
:lol: I don't think it's the #1 reason but it's one of em. Good list. If Parcells chooses to go Matt Ryan over Chris Long or choose Flacco and have the ejection button ready for Beck, I won't mind at all.

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 03:45 AM
:lol: I don't think it's the #1 reason but it's one of em. Good list. If Parcells chooses to go Matt Ryan over Chris Long or choose Flacco and have the ejection button ready for Beck, I won't mind at all. :lol: Its way down the list of reasons but I havent used it yet. Just trying to keep things fresh. :D Actually I should include Brohm even though I think he'll be drafted mid 1st.

IDFinFan
02-05-2008, 03:47 AM
thats actually a pretty impressive stat imho...but what do i know...

GridIronKing34
02-05-2008, 04:53 AM
That's a bit misleading, being Tom Brady and the Patriots have won the past how many. I don't think they won because of his 6'4" stature either.

I think that's an unfair comparison, Roethlisberger and Johnson were game managers. Tom Brady was pretty much a game manager too (until this year), but he didn't win the Super Bowl. Eli Manning is more of a game manager as well, while Peyton isn't really a game manager.

It seems that as of late the SB winners could be said to be "game managers" IMO. Which seems to be in Beck's favor... And with that logic, Matt Ryan will not be drafted by the Miami Dolphins... We have to go BPA for the most part, Ryan isn't even a top ten worthy player IMO. We better take Long or Dorsey at #1.

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 05:57 AM
That's a bit misleading, being Tom Brady and the Patriots have won the past how many. I don't think they won because of his 6'4" stature either.

I think that's an unfair comparison, Roethlisberger and Johnson were game managers. Tom Brady was pretty much a game manager too (until this year), but he didn't win the Super Bowl. Eli Manning is more of a game manager as well, while Peyton isn't really a game manager.

It seems that as of late the SB winners could be said to be "game managers" IMO. Which seems to be in Beck's favor... And with that logic, Matt Ryan will not be drafted by the Miami Dolphins... We have to go BPA for the most part, Ryan isn't even a top ten worthy player IMO. We better take Long or Dorsey at #1. That's a pretty good argument. I do think that once you get into the playoffs you better be able to play like a game manager. The defenses get too good to rely on the big play to sustain drives. Ryan and Brohm both have the intangibles to be great game managaers due to their football intelligence. Flacco is obviously a two or three year project.

I would say that there are two distinct advantages that size gives. One, all of these QBs last entire seasons. I know Big Ben has been dinged alot but all of the others are relatively injury free. The smaller you get at QB the greater the likelihood you will be injured.

Two, once you get into the playoffs and are facing nothing but good defenses you will need the ability to periodically make plays. You will have to escape pressure when called upon, create on the run when the play breaks down, stand tall in the pocket and look down the field for that one opportunity. These become very serious advantages the taller QBs have when playing in the playoffs. You simply can't rely on having perfect pass protection once you get into the playoffs. In at least one of the three or four defenses you face in your SuperBowl drive you are going to have a game when the pocket is constantly pressured and you need to be able to be effective in that kind of environment to bring home the ring

2413fanphins
02-05-2008, 11:26 AM
That's a bit misleading, being Tom Brady and the Patriots have won the past how many. I don't think they won because of his 6'4" stature either.

I think that's an unfair comparison, Roethlisberger and Johnson were game managers. Tom Brady was pretty much a game manager too (until this year), but he didn't win the Super Bowl. Eli Manning is more of a game manager as well, while Peyton isn't really a game manager.

It seems that as of late the SB winners could be said to be "game managers" IMO. Which seems to be in Beck's favor... And with that logic, Matt Ryan will not be drafted by the Miami Dolphins... We have to go BPA for the most part, Ryan isn't even a top ten worthy player IMO. We better take Long or Dorsey at #1.



the other side of the argument though...

john elway, kurt warner, peyton manning.... game breakers/changers

tom brady, trent dilfer, eli manning, brad johnson... game managers

I don't recall for sure, but I think dilfer put up a significant amount of points, but it may have come from the run game.

big ben, I think could go either way. he can manage a game, and as he showed last year, he can chuck 4-5 tds a game.

emocomputerjock
02-05-2008, 11:29 AM
1999 - John Elway 6' 3" 215
2000 - Kurt Warner 6'2" 220
2001 - Trent Dilfer 6'4" 225
2002 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2003 - Brad Johnson 6'5" 226
2004 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2005 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2006 - Ben Roethslisberger 6'5" 240
2007 - Peyton Manning 6'5" 230
2008 - Eli Manning 6'4" 218

Its been eight years since a QB shorter than 6'4" has won a SuperBowl. Just one of the many reasons I think we'll end up drafting Matt Ryan, Brohm or Flacco

Still on the draft Ryan #1 overall kick I see :lol: Where I can understand where you're coming from, I have an honest question to ask:

Would you have created this list if Cameron had his way and you hadn't seen Beck play at all this year? Would you say, without ever having seen him take a single snap, "oh, he'll never make it because he's not a classic big QB prototype kind of guy?"

padre31
02-05-2008, 11:43 AM
I notice a Qb whose last name begins with "B" has won three Super Bowls..:lol::lol:

Actually, the one thing that majority of those Qb's have is the ability to make at least 1 play, you do not need a Mike Vick, or even a Steve Young, but your QB has to make at least 1 play, or one drive.

Eli for example, had a statistically similar game to Peyton, but that one play to Tyree was the difference in the game, that is the sort of talent that you need to win a SB, not a QB who can 50 yds on scramble, but a Qb who can keep a play alive and Make A Play.
Except for Dilfer and Brad Johnson, all of those Qb's had that ability.

Nice list though Adamprez, your Sith Lord Ryan will be pleased with you..:wink:

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Still on the draft Ryan #1 overall kick I see :lol: Where I can understand where you're coming from, I have an honest question to ask:

Would you have created this list if Cameron had his way and you hadn't seen Beck play at all this year? Would you say, without ever having seen him take a single snap, "oh, he'll never make it because he's not a classic big QB prototype kind of guy?"

Yeah. For a few reasons.

One, I was never sold on the draftpick to begin with. I hadnt really scouted him because the couple of BYU games I watched with him I didnt think that much of him. Its the same for me with Colt Brennan this year. The QBs I would have considered drafting last year were Kolb, Edwards, Gutierrez and Korrodi.

Two, I was just very, very impressed by Ryan. Even if we had drafted any of the guys I wouldve considered I still would draft Ryan. To me he's franchise material and those type of QBs just dont come around that often. Anytime you can get one, unless you have one already, you grab them. Doesnt matter what else you need. A franchise QB is available, draft him.

Three, to me the three position you draft at number one overall are QB, RDE in a 4-3 or a pass rushing OLB in a 3-4 and a LOT. Jake Long is a ROT so he's off the list and Chris Long is more of a Mike Vrabel type if he's going to be a 3-4 OLB. I would rather keep Taylor than draft C. Long to replace him

Four, Parcells wants big QBs. Ryan fits.

Five, I have a bias similar to Parcells when it comes to prototypes. I want big linemen and big QBs. That to me is a SuperBowl formula

Now if we had stayed away from Culpepper and had used that second to move up to draft Cutler I would be on the Chris Long bandwagon. But I dont want to put my hopes on a 6'2" QB when those are a dying breed outside of the west coast offense. I know Matt Ryan will be a good QB in a few years. Hopefully Beck develops into a good one also. Then we can trade one

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 11:59 AM
I notice a Qb whose last name begins with "B" has won three Super Bowls..:lol::lol:

Actually, the one thing that majority of those Qb's have is the ability to make at least 1 play, you do not need a Mike Vick, or even a Steve Young, but your QB has to make at least 1 play, or one drive.

Eli for example, had a statistically similar game to Peyton, but that one play to Tyree was the difference in the game, that is the sort of talent that you need to win a SB, not a QB who can 50 yds on scramble, but a Qb who can keep a play alive and Make A Play.
Except for Dilfer and Brad Johnson, all of those Qb's had that ability.

Nice list though Adamprez, your Sith Lord Ryan will be pleased with you..:wink:

I agree that's what seperates the pretenders from the champs when it comes to SB rings. The ability to make something out of nothing at critical times. My Sith Lord is pleased :lol:

Nappy Roots
02-05-2008, 12:27 PM
im sorry. but this thread makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

u have 3 of the greatest QBs ever accounting for 5 of those Super bowls. and 3 guys having little to do with winning the super bowl. that leaves 2 guys. one is 6'2. and the other is 6'4. means nothing.

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 12:34 PM
im sorry. but this thread makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

u have 3 of the greatest QBs ever accounting for 5 of those Super bowls. and 3 guys having little to do with winning the super bowl. that leaves 2 guys. one is 6'2. and the other is 6'4. means nothing.

What makes them great? Part of it, not all, but part of it is their size

Nappy Roots
02-05-2008, 12:38 PM
one of the three is 6'3. favre is 6'2...i must be missing something here.

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 12:44 PM
one of the three is 6'3. favre is 6'2...i must be missing something here.

Well if I expanded it to twenty years we could use Favre. If I expanded it to forty years we could use 6'0" QBs probably. There is a trend here that 6'4" is the prototype size you want to shoot for in a QB

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Here's a list of all QBs

Trent Green 6'3" 217
Tom Brady 6'4" 225
Kellen Clemons 6'2" 223
Trent Edwards 6'4"231

Ben Roethlisberger 6'5" 240
Derek Anderson 6'6" 229
Steve McNair 6'2" 230
Carson Palmer 6'5" 230

Vince Young 6'5" 233
Peyton Manning 6'5" 230
David Garrard 6'2" 240
Matt Schaub 6'5" 237

Jay Cutler 6'3" 233
Phillip Rivers 6'5"228
Jamarcus Russell 6'6" 255
Brodie Croyle 6'2" 206

Tony Romo 6'2" 225
Eli Manning 6'4" 225
Donovan McNabb 6'2" 240
Jason Campbell 6'5" 230

Tavaris Jackson 6'2" 232
Jon Kitna 6'2" 220
Brett Favre 6'2" 222
Brian Griese 6'3" 214

Joey Harrington 6'4" 220
Drew Brees 6'0" 209
Jeff Garcia 6'1" 205
Jake Delhomme 6'2" 215

Marc Bulger 6'3" 212
Matt Hasselback 6'4" 225
Kurt Warner 6'2" 222
Alex Smith 6'4" 210

13 of 32 are 6'2" or less which comes out to 40%. But if you factor in age and impending retirement the number drops to 9 of 27 which comes out to 33%. Now to replace those impending retirements 4 out of 5 of the draft's top ten prospects are 6'4" or taller. Lets replace the five impending retirements with the top 5 prospects and the numbers change to 31%. If you continue this trend for the next three years you'll be under 20% within three years.

Now if you take the QBs who most likely are safe for the next five years (highlighted) 35% are under 6'4". If you include only 6'2" or less the number drops to 23%

6'2" is dying in the NFL. We need to get a big QB, over 6'4" preferably since that's where the trend lies. Yes, we all love the stories of undersized players that overcome their limitations but its not the way to build for longterm success

Nappy Roots
02-05-2008, 03:05 PM
OBVIOUSLY a 6'5 230 pound QB is preferred. but other then being preferred, it means little toward success...

2 out of the top 5 QBs this year were only 6'2. and if you want to take it even further heres how the top 15 QBs last year measure out...



6'4
6'5
6'2
6'5
6'2
6'2
6'1
6'4
6'2
6'2
6'0
6'3
6'5
6'5
6'3
6 out of the top 10 were 6'2 or smaller.
9 out of the top 15 were 6'3 or smaller.

should we go even futher? last years top rated QBs.


6'5
6'3
6'0
6'2
6'2
6'5
6'3
6'5
6'4
6'1
6'2
6'3
6'2
6'2
6'5
4 of 5 is 6'3 and under.
6 of 10 is 6'3 and under.
11 of 15 is 6'3 and under.


so where is this supposed phasing of QBs under 6'4 at? and a 6'4+ is a must for success.

2413fanphins
02-05-2008, 03:29 PM
I would say in the fact that three out the top five last year were 6'4" or taller.

Nappy Roots
02-05-2008, 03:32 PM
I would say in the fact that three out the top five last year were 6'4" or taller.


so 3 out of 5 proves anything at all?

2413fanphins
02-05-2008, 03:34 PM
if i buy you a beer will you settle down man!!!

no it doesn't really settle anything at all.

I just think you get a better idea when dealing with the top five... what the 12th best qb did this year is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. We shouldn't aspire to have the 12th best qb.

thats all.

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 03:41 PM
9 out of 10 of his year's top ten QB prospects are 6'3" or taller
9 out of 10 of the 2009 top QB prospects are 6'3" or taller (according to WalterFootball)

Its simply the trend.

3 of the top 10 are retiring in the next two years. One will be replaced by a 6'5" QB, the other a 6'2" and Tampa I have no idea. still the trend continues. Either 33% or 66% of the retirees will be replaced by 6'4" or taller

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 03:51 PM
so 3 out of 5 proves anything at all? Currently the stats of the top 5 are similar to the league (60% 6'4" or over) but the league is moving away from that

The best young QBs (30 and under) are over 6'4" at around 75%.

The trend isnt coming in a vacuum. Offensive linemen are getting bigger also and the rule of thumb says a QB is supposed to be able to look eye to eye with his Center and Guards. Do you think Parcells is going to have 6'2" Guards and Centers in front of Beck. Man I hope not

adamprez2003
02-05-2008, 03:53 PM
if i buy you a beer will you settle down man!!!

no it doesn't really settle anything at all.

I just think you get a better idea when dealing with the top five... what the 12th best qb did this year is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. We shouldn't aspire to have the 12th best qb.

thats all.

Exactly. Shoot for top five. :up:

GridIronKing34
02-05-2008, 04:03 PM
the other side of the argument though...

john elway, kurt warner, peyton manning.... game breakers/changers

tom brady, trent dilfer, eli manning, brad johnson... game managers

I don't recall for sure, but I think dilfer put up a significant amount of points, but it may have come from the run game.

big ben, I think could go either way. he can manage a game, and as he showed last year, he can chuck 4-5 tds a game.

How is that the other side of the argument? All you're telling me is that Brady, E.Manning, Johnson, and Difler are game managers. And that Elway, Warner, and P.Manning are game-changers. That is exactly as I said. Most of the past Super Bowl winning QBs are game managers. You bring up Elway, BUT... he finally made it to the Super Bowl when Denver had a 2,000 yard rusher in Terrell Davis. He was more of a game manager IMO at that point. Warner had probably the greatest surrounding cast you could ask for. He's in Arizona with a good cast too, but you don't see him putting up 40 TDs a year. Manning is in a class of his own IMO.. you cannot expect any QB to be of Manning's caliber.

sn9ke.eyes
02-05-2008, 05:33 PM
Ok I am looking at your stats for the last 7 years because we want to stay on top of any trends:

2002 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2003 - Brad Johnson 6'5" 226
2004 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2005 - Tom Brady 6'4" 225
2006 - Ben Roethslisberger 6'5" 240
2007 - Peyton Manning 6'5" 230
2008 - Eli Manning 6'4" 218


1) 5 of 7 Super Bowl winners have a 'B' in either their first or last names (John Beck -- yes ; Matt Ryan -- no)

2) The last 2 Super Bowl winners have a last name of Manning (John Beck -- no ; Matt Ryan -- no)

3) The last 2 Super Bowl winners have had a NFL QB for a father.


So I can only conclude with the data you have provided that either

A -- Our plan at QB should be to stick with John Beck since he has a 'B' in his name

OR

B -- We should immediately begin contract talks with Cooper Manning.