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View Full Version : Bring on the Combine....Ryan is Number 1



brent
02-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Bring on the Combine....Ryan is ranked Number 1 overall.

rev kev
02-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Bring on the Combine....Ryan is ranked Number 1 overall.

LINK...?

Aqua4Ever04
02-05-2008, 11:58 PM
Todd McShay has us taking him #1 overall, I'm sure that's what he's referring to.


And for the record, if we take Ryan #1 overall, I'm coming to Finheaven in a trench coat and shooting up the place.

Disclaimer: Just in case any one took that serious, it was a metaphor intended to illustrate the extreme anger drafting Ryan would cause me.

DaytonaDolFan13
02-06-2008, 12:48 AM
If we stay @ #1 I like C Long as the logical choice, but if you wanna get NUTTY.... take D MAC!

JT#1
02-06-2008, 12:51 AM
i really don't know what people see thats so special about Matt Ryan, for throwing so many passes his stats don't pop out at you and throws a lot of picks. Just because he is the #1 rated Qb doesn't mean hes worth the #1 pick, i don't think he even deserves a top 10 pick to be honest.

Jed
02-06-2008, 12:51 AM
I hope we stay at #1 and take Dorsey. I hope we find a way to get more 2nd and 3rd round picks, too... trades (not JT), trade down from #32, something.

uga3406
02-06-2008, 01:01 AM
if we dont trade out of that # 1 pick hopefully we take chris long...dorsey would be # 2 on my list then McFadden

Aqua4Ever04
02-06-2008, 03:07 AM
If we stay @ #1 I like C Long as the logical choice, but if you wanna get NUTTY.... take D MAC!

The only pick that would make me angrier then Ryan, is McFadden. Well, not really, I don't even think Matt Ryan is the best QB in this class, nor do I think he belongs in the top 15.

If we take Jake Long, Matt Ryan or Darren McFadden; put me on sucide watch.

houtz
02-06-2008, 08:24 AM
McShay also has Brohm being there at 32. I'd rather just wait and steal him at 32.

FinaticalOne
02-06-2008, 08:35 AM
McShay also has Brohm being there at 32. I'd rather just wait and steal him at 32.


...and what a steal that would be.

I would be shocked if he is there at 32, but if he did get that far; I can see three or four teams calling the Giants and offering picks to jump in front of us to get Brohm. Hopefully the Giants have their mind set on drafting someone there so then the phone calls would start coming to us to trade out of the spot; giving us options.

emocomputerjock
02-06-2008, 10:01 AM
Bring on the Combine....Ryan is ranked Number 1 overall.

And this makes you think we'll see any more of him outside of a limited pro day why? The hype machine is going to put him #1 at QB no matter what.

Conuficus
02-06-2008, 11:19 AM
i really don't know what people see thats so special about Matt Ryan, for throwing so many passes his stats don't pop out at you and throws a lot of picks. Just because he is the #1 rated Qb doesn't mean hes worth the #1 pick, i don't think he even deserves a top 10 pick to be honest.

Maybe he just looks really good in tight pants?

No it's just b/c the QB is always given more credit for wins and blame for losses than he deserves. There will always be the belief that the best QB is the best player in the draft so to speak.

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 11:27 AM
Just say NO to Matt "The interception highlight" Ryan...and that goes the same for Darren "I am just waiting to fail in the NFL" McFadden

SgtPhin
02-06-2008, 12:30 PM
Just say NO to Matt "The interception highlight" Ryan...and that goes the same for Darren "I am just waiting to fail in the NFL" McFadden

I believe DMc has about a 200% better chance for success in the NFL than Mr."Hype" Ryan. He reminds me of AJ Feely for some reason, I just can't figure what it is!

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 12:49 PM
I believe DMc has about a 200% better chance for success in the NFL than Mr."Hype" Ryan. He reminds me of AJ Feely for some reason, I just can't figure what it is!


I personally cant understand the hype about either of them...but that's just me

The phins will either Trade down a little, and still take Chris Long or Dorsey, or trade WAY down and pick up LOTS of defensive studs littered with a top-tier Olineman and Tight End..

2413fanphins
02-06-2008, 12:54 PM
Just say NO to Matt "The interception highlight" Ryan...and that goes the same for Darren "I am just waiting to fail in the NFL" McFadden



do yourself a favor and look at all the qb's.

divide there INT's by there attempts and tell me if matt ryan is really a turnover machine/interception highlight.
he throws an interception about .4% more of the time than brohm.
how will anybody ever be able to cope with that.


all the experts on this site really are starting to overwhelm some of us.


he may or may not be worth the #1 pick that is debatable, but this int perception is blown out of proportion to say the least.

I would agree with you if you question some of his decision making, but when you throw 654 attempts, you may have to deal with some ints.

Ghetti13
02-06-2008, 01:06 PM
STATS ARE MISLEADING!

Matt Ryan has everything you look for in a franchise quarterback from a physical standpoint. What makes him special is that Roethlisberger/Romo factor in that he is more than a caretaker. He is a playmaker. He routinely breaks the pocket and makes plays.

Get used to the idea of Ryan possibly getting drafted by Miami No.1 Overall. Its a reality and quite possibly the smart decision.

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 01:15 PM
do yourself a favor and look at all the qb's.

divide there INT's by there attempts and tell me if matt ryan is really a turnover machine/interception highlight.
he throws an interception about .4% more of the time than brohm.
how will anybody ever be able to cope with that.


all the experts on this site really are starting to overwhelm some of us.


he may or may not be worth the #1 pick that is debatable, but this int perception is blown out of proportion to say the least.

I would agree with you if you question some of his decision making, but when you throw 654 attempts, you may have to deal with some ints.

Actually, what I am saying is NONE of the QB's going in the draft are anywhere near the #1 overall. In fact, I would say NONE of them are better than John Beck.

The fact you try to bolster Ryan's stats by comparing them to Brohm is laughable to me actually

Spray Mucus
02-06-2008, 01:16 PM
The hype on Matt Ryan will only help us in our cause to trade out of #1... If the league thinks we could take Dorsey, C. Long or Ryan with number #1 they might be inclined to trading up with us.

Before it was either Dorsey or Long with the #1 pick... NOw if you throw another name in there at #1 it increases the value of the pick.

BLITZKRIEG
02-06-2008, 01:21 PM
In fact, I would say NONE of them are better than John Beck.

Talk about laughable.....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Ghetti13
02-06-2008, 01:23 PM
Matt Ryan is in a whole other class compared to John Beck.

Dolfan_Noles
02-06-2008, 01:40 PM
If Ryan is the pick at #1, it feels like the Alex Smith pick for the Niners a couple of years back. There's not an overwhelmingly good QB that is deserving of the first overall pick, but the team at #1 almost always needs a QB, so it looks from the outside like a logical choice.

I don't buy it. You can't give up on Beck this quickly. We have so many needs on the defensive side of the ball, and we need to put some playmakers around Beck to make him successful. Say what you will, and he didn't show me much this year either, but Beck could turn out to be great. Rothlisberger aside, there aren't many QBs in this league that came in and clicked as a rookie. The only guys that have been successful are those that had some time to get used to the league. I really think that he'll eventually be successful, even if it takes longer than everyone would like.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 01:42 PM
do yourself a favor and look at all the qb's.

divide there INT's by there attempts and tell me if matt ryan is really a turnover machine/interception highlight.
he throws an interception about .4% more of the time than brohm.
how will anybody ever be able to cope with that.


all the experts on this site really are starting to overwhelm some of us.


he may or may not be worth the #1 pick that is debatable, but this int perception is blown out of proportion to say the least.

I would agree with you if you question some of his decision making, but when you throw 654 attempts, you may have to deal with some ints.

Thank you. His int percentage per pass attempt is lower than Henne's and Brennan's who were the two favorite "alternate" choices for QB draft on this site. The reason people dont want Ryan is quite simple. They dont want Beck to have any competition. They have been on his bandwagon since last year and arent ready to give up on the idea that he's going to turn out good someday. So they want to protect him from competition by having us wait until the 3rd or 4th round before we draft a QB ensuring that we draft nothing but a backup

Dolfan_Noles
02-06-2008, 01:45 PM
I just want to make sure that this is the same site where everyone was clamoring for Drew Stanton and Omar Jacobs, right? :D

I keed, I keed.

Ghetti13
02-06-2008, 01:46 PM
Stop listening to the media and put in the tape and decide for yourself. Ryan is an overwhelmingly good quarterback prospect. He is more than worthy of being drafted number one overall.

Matt Ryan is not Alex Smith. Not even close.

Also, it is not that you are giving up on John Beck. It is simply that you are adding a very talented player at a position of need at the position of most importance.

Lastly, I agree that I think Beck could be a very good quarterback for this team if he were given the time. I like his skills and I think he is going to start in this league. Problem is that it may be a big risk to bank on Beck when you have Ryan starring you in the face.

At some point we have to simply bite the bullet and draft a franchise quarterback. Otherwise, we run the risk of spending another decade trying to find that quick fix.

All this aside, Dorsey is one hell of a player and will give Miami pause in this process.

MrEd
02-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Todd McShay has us taking him #1 overall, I'm sure that's what he's referring to.


And for the record, if we take Ryan #1 overall, I'm coming to Finheaven in a trench coat and shooting up the place.

Disclaimer: Just in case any one took that serious, it was a metaphor intended to illustrate the extreme anger drafting Ryan would cause me.

Why would u be extremely mad at aquiring the piece of the puzzle that will get us over the hump? very confusing...are u a Pats fan?

MrEd
02-06-2008, 01:55 PM
The hype on Matt Ryan will only help us in our cause to trade out of #1... If the league thinks we could take Dorsey, C. Long or Ryan with number #1 they might be inclined to trading up with us.

Before it was either Dorsey or Long with the #1 pick... NOw if you throw another name in there at #1 it increases the value of the pick.

Dorsey or Long were "never" mentioned by this FO as possible #1 picks. That was just uneducated fans and mocks that had MIA picking one of them.

The "only" player that this FO has hinted into needing to take is Matt Ryan. From day one, BP and JI have mentioned "QB" being the #1 need to fix this offseason and JI made it known that it was the #1 need to focus on in the draft. So stop making things up...

MrEd
02-06-2008, 01:59 PM
McShay also has Brohm being there at 32. I'd rather just wait and steal him at 32.

That's actually illogical. Why would u pass on the "only" top pick/1st round QB prospect for a "not worthy of a 1st round pick" QB at #32? That would be a waste of a #32 pick.

No. U select the "only" top pick/1st round worthy QB #1 and then u select the best CB available at #32. Simple really.

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 02:00 PM
If Ryan is the pick at #1, it feels like the Alex Smith pick for the Niners a couple of years back. There's not an overwhelmingly good QB that is deserving of the first overall pick, but the team at #1 almost always needs a QB, so it looks from the outside like a logical choice.

I don't buy it. You can't give up on Beck this quickly. We have so many needs on the defensive side of the ball, and we need to put some playmakers around Beck to make him successful. Say what you will, and he didn't show me much this year either, but Beck could turn out to be great. Rothlisberger aside, there aren't many QBs in this league that came in and clicked as a rookie. The only guys that have been successful are those that had some time to get used to the league. I really think that he'll eventually be successful, even if it takes longer than everyone would like.

Another thing to add in Beck's defense. Rothlisberger had a VERY good team around him. I can think of 1 other QB that did good as a rookie..he also had a VERY good team around him...any takers on who that was;)

Spray Mucus
02-06-2008, 02:03 PM
Dorsey or Long were "never" mentioned by this FO as possible #1 picks. That was just uneducated fans and mocks that had MIA picking one of them.

The "only" player that this FO has hinted into needing to take is Matt Ryan. From day one, BP and JI have mentioned "QB" being the #1 need to fix this offseason and JI made it known that it was the #1 need to focus on in the draft. So stop making things up...

Re-read my post and tell me where I said the FO said it would be Long or Dorsey...

kthnxbye!

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Dorsey or Long were "never" mentioned by this FO as possible #1 picks. That was just uneducated fans and mocks that had MIA picking one of them.

The "only" player that this FO has hinted into needing to take is Matt Ryan. From day one, BP and JI have mentioned "QB" being the #1 need to fix this offseason and JI made it known that it was the #1 need to focus on in the draft. So stop making things up...


LINK?

Actually, Parcells has been noted in syndications that he was very intently watching the National Champoinship with his eyes VERY much on two players-Dorsey and Gholston:up:


Yes, I can and WILL find a link for this when I have more time


EDIT: And BTW: you are soooo correct about Parsnips wanting a QB in the first round, I mean, he has done it over and over and over..Lets see, you have Drew Bledsoe..then you have...welll, thats actually it...

Motion
02-06-2008, 02:12 PM
STATS ARE MISLEADING!

Matt Ryan has everything you look for in a franchise quarterback from a physical standpoint. What makes him special is that Roethlisberger/Romo factor in that he is more than a caretaker. He is a playmaker. He routinely breaks the pocket and makes plays.

Get used to the idea of Ryan possibly getting drafted by Miami No.1 Overall. Its a reality and quite possibly the smart decision.

Matt Ryan and Caretaker do not belong in the same sentence. The guy had almost 30 turnovers this year. I understand the want for a QB but this is getting alittle out of hand. I have seen Ryan play numerous times, enough to tell me he is no where near #1 overall prospect. Best QB? Thats debatable but just because he is possibly the #1 QB does not make him #1 overall.

ozman
02-06-2008, 02:34 PM
If you think Mc Fadden is going to fail, you're crazy. He will be one of the top backs in football, I think he will even be better then Peterson. I don't think we should take him, but he is the real deal. I watched a lot of his games and the other teams game plans was to stop him. They had no quarterback, just him and Felix. Look what he did to LSU. We could draft him and let Ronnie heal and then trade Brown the following year for more picks.

popularwar
02-06-2008, 02:45 PM
Just say NO to Matt "The interception highlight" Ryan...and that goes the same for Darren "I am just waiting to fail in the NFL" McFadden
What are you basing that on? I think with even just a solid line McFadden could do great in this league.

wockenbauss
02-06-2008, 02:52 PM
EDIT: And BTW: you are soooo correct about Parsnips wanting a QB in the first round, I mean, he has done it over and over and over..Lets see, you have Drew Bledsoe..then you have...welll, thats actually it...

Chad Pennington?

rev kev
02-06-2008, 02:56 PM
What are you basing that on? I think with even just a solid line McFadden could do great in this league.

I think his mind is turned off

:abduction:

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 02:59 PM
What are you basing that on? I think with even just a solid line McFadden could do great in this league.

McFadden is built VERY high, which means he carries quite a bit of his weight above the belt, while this helps with Arm tackles up high, NFL calibur defenders are going to clobber him down low. He only weighs 215 to begin with. He also runs VERY upright and is going to make a tremendous target
He also spent many snaps working out of a gimmick type offense, that wont work at all in the NFL. Point in case, Reggie Bush

Bottomline, his body-type is abnormal for a productive rusher in the NFL, and he is going to spend much time learning the Pro-set type of game. Most of his highlights are of him running away from defenders while never having contact. That is MUCH different that what he will see in the NFL.


I could be totally wrong, but to place him above AP at this point is a bit ludicrous IMO.

rev kev
02-06-2008, 03:08 PM
McFadden is built VERY high, which means he carries quite a bit of his weight above the belt, while this helps with Arm tackles up high, NFL calibur defenders are going to clobber him down low. He only weighs 215 to begin with. He also runs VERY upright and is going to make a tremendous target
He also spent many snaps working out of a gimmick type offense, that wont work at all in the NFL. Point in case, Reggie Bush

Bottomline, his body-type is abnormal for a productive rusher in the NFL, and he is going to spend much time learning the Pro-set type of game. Most of his highlights are of him running away from defenders while never having contact. That is MUCH different that what he will see in the NFL.


I could be totally wrong, but to place him above AP at this point is a bit ludicrous IMO.

Very astute for a Tween -Teen... but still wrong... Players have different running styles... Eric Dickerson as compared to Emmitt Smith as compared to Barry Sanders as compared to Roger Craig... Each one built different... Completely Diffeent..., running styles...

And my personal favourite Walter Payton... Not the tree trunk legs you see today but vision..., vision my boy..., all these greats had it...:phinatic13:

ozman
02-06-2008, 03:10 PM
They said last year Adrian ran to up right. Remember Eric Dickerson? He ran the same way. Trust me, he will be a stud. How many gimmick plays can you run when you run for 300yds against the best defense in the country.

2413fanphins
02-06-2008, 03:12 PM
I wasn't trying bolster anybody's stat lines, I was simply putting the fire to ashes on your misguided classification of ryan as in interception artist.

Brohm took a chance going back to school, and in taking that chance he cost himself A lot of money. Would I welcome him in a phins uni... damn straight.

He's good. I just happen to think matt ryan is better.

The #1 overall pick is tough. It's possible, no matter who we pick, they may never end up being worth the #1 pick in the draft.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 03:16 PM
LINK?

Actually, Parcells has been noted in syndications that he was very intently watching the National Champoinship with his eyes VERY much on two players-Dorsey and Gholston:up:


Yes, I can and WILL find a link for this when I have more time


EDIT: And BTW: you are soooo correct about Parsnips wanting a QB in the first round, I mean, he has done it over and over and over..Lets see, you have Drew Bledsoe..then you have...welll, thats actually it... Pennington

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 03:19 PM
McFadden is built VERY high, which means he carries quite a bit of his weight above the belt, while this helps with Arm tackles up high, NFL calibur defenders are going to clobber him down low. He only weighs 215 to begin with. He also runs VERY upright and is going to make a tremendous target
He also spent many snaps working out of a gimmick type offense, that wont work at all in the NFL. Point in case, Reggie Bush

Bottomline, his body-type is abnormal for a productive rusher in the NFL, and he is going to spend much time learning the Pro-set type of game. Most of his highlights are of him running away from defenders while never having contact. That is MUCH different that what he will see in the NFL.


I could be totally wrong, but to place him above AP at this point is a bit ludicrous IMO.

Excellent points. He reminds me a bit of Dickerson in his running style so I wouldnt completely right him off but the odds of him surviving for long are not good IMO. I think whoever takes him will run the risk of a very short career due to injuries. I prefer Mendenhall myself.

dan the fin
02-06-2008, 03:20 PM
I say right now there are three players that can be considered for the #1 pick.
C. Long, Matt Ryan, G. Dorsey.

Now as for Matt Ryan he is a great QB prospect. First off for all the people that thinks he has to many INT, take a beginners level Stats course at your local Jr. college so that you know how to read and interpret statistical information. (sorry for being harsh but people just don't get it) If you want to look at stats to show if a player is turnover prone INT ratio is much more accurate stat, then total INT.

Second thing that makes Ryan rate so high is all of his intangibles, which to me are just as important or more then physical attributes(which Ryan's are very good.) He is know to be a great field general and great in the clutch, hence his nickname "Matty Ice". If you want to see this in action watch the BC-VT game.

The one thing that I really like about Ryan was what he was able to due with the team that he had. He had to overcome the learning curve that comes with a new coaching staff that brought in a entire new playbook and offense. Also he had no playmakers on Off. and a poor O-line. That and every defense in the country new he was going to throw the ball, they had no running game at all. Basically every game he played this year he had pressure like Brady i the SB. He spent a lot of time getting up of the ground. But despite all of this he was still able to put up very good #'s. Just imagine this guy on a team like USC or a program like that.

As far as who I would like to draft I am still uncertain. I am 50/50 on Beck as if he could become a good QB, but in no way will I try and lie to myself and say that he is as good as Ryan. We also need D-line help bad, and with JT getting older Long looks great. I think Dorsey is th best Talent in the draft but also to me a DT carries a little less value as DE and QB. So its still a toss up.

chillwill3000
02-06-2008, 03:21 PM
if we dont trade out of that # 1 pick hopefully we take chris long...dorsey would be # 2 on my list then McFadden

I have a man crush on Knoshown Moreno. I am from GA.

Spray Mucus
02-06-2008, 03:29 PM
Pennington

Was that BP's pick ot Groh's?

zach8111
02-06-2008, 03:41 PM
Bring on the Combine....Ryan is ranked Number 1 overall.

you do know miami is gonna play this for all its worth and get teams to think we want him and they will want to trade up to get him so we can get more picks. it called a smokescreen. i think chris long is our pick

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 03:49 PM
I say right now there are three players that can be considered for the #1 pick.
C. Long, Matt Ryan, G. Dorsey.

Now as for Matt Ryan he is a great QB prospect. First off for all the people that thinks he has to many INT, take a beginners level Stats course at your local Jr. college so that you know how to read and interpret statistical information. (sorry for being harsh but people just don't get it) If you want to look at stats to show if a player is turnover prone INT ratio is much more accurate stat, then total INT.

Second thing that makes Ryan rate so high is all of his intangibles, which to me are just as important or more then physical attributes(which Ryan's are very good.) He is know to be a great field general and great in the clutch, hence his nickname "Matty Ice". If you want to see this in action watch the BC-VT game.

The one thing that I really like about Ryan was what he was able to due with the team that he had. He had to overcome the learning curve that comes with a new coaching staff that brought in a entire new playbook and offense. Also he had no playmakers on Off. and a poor O-line. That and every defense in the country new he was going to throw the ball, they had no running game at all. Basically every game he played this year he had pressure like Brady i the SB. He spent a lot of time getting up of the ground. But despite all of this he was still able to put up very good #'s. Just imagine this guy on a team like USC or a program like that.

As far as who I would like to draft I am still uncertain. I am 50/50 on Beck as if he could become a good QB, but in no way will I try and lie to myself and say that he is as good as Ryan. We also need D-line help bad, and with JT getting older Long looks great. I think Dorsey is th best Talent in the draft but also to me a DT carries a little less value as DE and QB. So its still a toss up.

Awesome post. Exactly the right way to look at this draft. Those are the only three to look at IMO and I think you really nailed the reasons to look at all of them. Good stuff:up:

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 03:50 PM
Was that BP's pick ot Groh's? Parcells was fron office that year

Nappy Roots
02-06-2008, 03:55 PM
Now as for Matt Ryan he is a great QB prospect. First off for all the people that thinks he has to many INT, take a beginners level Stats course at your local Jr. college so that you know how to read and interpret statistical information. (sorry for being harsh but people just don't get it) If you want to look at stats to show if a player is turnover prone INT ratio is much more accurate stat, then total INT.


you mean that 1.5/1 TD/INT ratio. yup, that proves he doesnt throw to many INTs.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:00 PM
you mean that 1.5/1 TD/INT ratio. yup, that proves he doesnt throw to many INTs. Like Woodson is any better. :lol:At least he has pro prospects to throw to and his stock is still falling faster than everyone's other than Ainge and Brennan. Man I can understand someone deciding they dont like Ryan but Woodson? Cmon

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:00 PM
I say right now there are three players that can be considered for the #1 pick.
C. Long, Matt Ryan, G. Dorsey.

Now as for Matt Ryan he is a great QB prospect. First off for all the people that thinks he has to many INT, take a beginners level Stats course at your local Jr. college so that you know how to read and interpret statistical information. (sorry for being harsh but people just don't get it) If you want to look at stats to show if a player is turnover prone INT ratio is much more accurate stat, then total INT.

Second thing that makes Ryan rate so high is all of his intangibles, which to me are just as important or more then physical attributes(which Ryan's are very good.) He is know to be a great field general and great in the clutch, hence his nickname "Matty Ice". If you want to see this in action watch the BC-VT game.

The one thing that I really like about Ryan was what he was able to due with the team that he had. He had to overcome the learning curve that comes with a new coaching staff that brought in a entire new playbook and offense. Also he had no playmakers on Off. and a poor O-line. That and every defense in the country new he was going to throw the ball, they had no running game at all. Basically every game he played this year he had pressure like Brady i the SB. He spent a lot of time getting up of the ground. But despite all of this he was still able to put up very good #'s. Just imagine this guy on a team like USC or a program like that.

As far as who I would like to draft I am still uncertain. I am 50/50 on Beck as if he could become a good QB, but in no way will I try and lie to myself and say that he is as good as Ryan. We also need D-line help bad, and with JT getting older Long looks great. I think Dorsey is th best Talent in the draft but also to me a DT carries a little less value as DE and QB. So its still a toss up.

Wow, before you start telling people to take classes to learn how to read stats maybe you should collect all the facts yourself. I know plenty of people have pointed out his INT/Pass ratio to defend him, how many have included his fumbles? I myself am one who has mentioned his habit of turning the ball over because when your in the neighborhood of 30 turnovers in a season in a average conference there is legit reason to be concerned about spending the #1 pick overall and 50+ million dollars on the guy. I've seen him play numerous times including both VT games, I'm curious to which one you suggest we all watch? The one where he played awful for 58 minutes before connecting on a few passes to win the game? Or the conference championship game when Mr. Clutch himself turned the ball over to seal the game?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, fair enough.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:02 PM
Wow, before you start telling people to take classes to learn how to read stats maybe you should collect all the facts yourself. I know plenty of people have pointed out his INT/Pass ratio to defend him, how many have included his fumbles? I myself am one who has mentioned his habit of turning the ball over because when your in the neighborhood of 30 turnovers in a season in a average conference there is legit reason to be concerned about spending the #1 pick overall and 50+ million dollars on the guy. I've seen him play numerous times including both VT games, I'm curious to which one you suggest we all watch? The one where he played awful for 58 minutes before connecting on a few passes to win the game? Or the conference championship game when Mr. Clutch himself turned the ball over to seal the game?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, fair enough. That average conference isnt as weak as people make it out to be. Virginia Tech was the number two defense in the nation. Ryan singlehandedly beat that defense with a poor oline, no running gm and no receivers.

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:03 PM
Like Woodson is any better. :lol:At least he has pro prospects to throw to and his stock is still falling faster than everyone's other than Ainge and Brennan. Man I can understand someone deciding they dont like Ryan but Woodson? Cmon

You mean the same Andre Woodson that owns the NCAA record for consecutive pass attempts without an INT? Oh...... ;)

Nappy Roots
02-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Like Woodson is any better. :lol:At least he has pro prospects to throw to and his stock is still falling faster than everyone's other than Ainge and Brennan. Man I can understand someone deciding they dont like Ryan but Woodson? Cmon




http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2008/02/Smaducrew-1.jpg

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:05 PM
That average conference isnt as weak as people make it out to be.

I didn't say it was weak but its clearly not on the same level as the SEC, Pac 10, Big XII, and arguably the Big Ten and Big East this season.

Nappy Roots
02-06-2008, 04:07 PM
You mean the same Andre Woodson that owns the NCAA record for consecutive pass attempts without an INT? Oh...... ;)


stop with the #s motion.

woodson didnt play in as tough a conference as ryan.....oh wait
woodson was surrounded with better talent....oh wait
woodson doesnt have as strong of an arm as ryan...oh wait
woodson doesnt have as good mobility as ryan...oh wait
woodson isnt as smart as ryan....oh wait


oh wait. ****.

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:09 PM
That average conference isnt as weak as people make it out to be. Virginia Tech was the number two defense in the nation. Ryan singlehandedly beat that defense with a poor oline, no running gm and no receivers.

Singlehandedly?

I'm sure the WRs that caught those two passes and the defense that played solid most that game would disagree.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:09 PM
You mean the same Andre Woodson that owns the NCAA record for consecutive pass attempts without an INT? Oh...... ;) So why's he dropping? He was a first rounder two months ago. Now he's a 2nd at best and possibly a 3rd when all is said and done. You dont think him having Steve Johnson and Jacob Tamme, two legitimate pro prospects and Ryan having none might explain the disparity, cmon

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:11 PM
Singlehandedly?

I'm sure the WRs that caught those two passes and the defense that played solid most that game would disagree. The defense definitely had a hand in it, you're correct there. There isnt one pro prospect on the receiving corps so yes singlehandedly at least in terms of BC offense vs VT defense

Nappy Roots
02-06-2008, 04:12 PM
So why's he dropping? He was a first rounder two months ago. Now he's a 2nd at best and possibly a 3rd when all is said and done. You dont think him having Steve Johnson and Jacob Tamme, two legitimate pro prospects and Ryan having none might explain the disparity, cmon


because people over react with the senior bowl. you said it yourself. at the end of the season, he was a 1st rounder. thats where he should pretty much stand. people that take a week of play over 3 years of starting in the best conference in NCAA is incredible to me.

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:13 PM
So why's he dropping? He was a first rounder two months ago. Now he's a 2nd at best and possibly a 3rd when all is said and done. You dont think him having Steve Johnson and Jacob Tamme, two legitimate pro prospects and Ryan having none might explain the disparity, cmon

He definitely didn't help himself at the Senior Bowl I'll be the first to admit that. I hope he does drop I'd love to have him with 2b or even 3, that would be a steal. I think the surrounding talent is a wash when you consider the talent of the defenses they played. I mean Tamme and Johnson are decent players but we're not talking top notch here.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:13 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2008/02/Smaducrew-1.jpg:lol::up:

dan the fin
02-06-2008, 04:17 PM
you mean that 1.5/1 TD/INT ratio. yup, that proves he doesnt throw to many INTs.

That has nothing to due with overall how often he throws a INT. That could mean he did not throw a lot of TD's which can also be related to a lack of talent around him. The only stat that states how often on throws a INT is when you take the players total # of INT and divide that by how many pass attempts. In you ratio it compare TD's to INT's which tells us nothing about how often he throws a INT.

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:17 PM
because people over react with the senior bowl. you said it yourself. at the end of the season, he was a 1st rounder. thats where he should pretty much stand. people that take a week of play over 3 years of starting in the best conference in NCAA is incredible to me.

It is pretty amazing how much 1 week of practice can boost your stock. I've always thought that there is way too much put into the senior bowl performance and combine compared to 3-4 years of on the field play.

TotoreMexico
02-06-2008, 04:19 PM
I'd be so pissed off if we take a QB #1 overall, and especially Ryan

But of course that's my opinion

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:24 PM
It is pretty amazing how much 1 week of practice can boost your stock. I've always thought that there is way too much put into the senior bowl performance and combine compared to 3-4 years of on the field play. I think his problems stem more from his delivery. IMO the draft isnt about what you did in college but rather how you project into the pros. Thats why there is so much emphasis put on the combine. Ryan is just more ready both in terms of delivery and knowledge of the position. Woodson will need at least one more year of preperation than Ryan and his hitch in his throwing motion is a major concern

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:25 PM
I'd be so pissed off if we take a QB #1 overall, and especially Ryan

But of course that's my opinion I think you're sig clued us in

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 04:28 PM
He definitely didn't help himself at the Senior Bowl I'll be the first to admit that. I hope he does drop I'd love to have him with 2b or even 3, that would be a steal. I think the surrounding talent is a wash when you consider the talent of the defenses they played. I mean Tamme and Johnson are decent players but we're not talking top notch here. Tamme is either a 3rd or 4th rounder and Johnson is a 4th or 5th so they're in the top 120 pro prospects in the country.

dan the fin
02-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Wow, before you start telling people to take classes to learn how to read stats maybe you should collect all the facts yourself. I know plenty of people have pointed out his INT/Pass ratio to defend him, how many have included his fumbles? I myself am one who has mentioned his habit of turning the ball over because when your in the neighborhood of 30 turnovers in a season in a average conference there is legit reason to be concerned about spending the #1 pick overall and 50+ million dollars on the guy. I've seen him play numerous times including both VT games, I'm curious to which one you suggest we all watch? The one where he played awful for 58 minutes before connecting on a few passes to win the game? Or the conference championship game when Mr. Clutch himself turned the ball over to seal the game?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, fair enough.

I don't mind your opinion at all when it comes to thing such as what you did or did not like when you watched him play. But even when you throw in the fumble you also have to take into the consideration of the amount of Att. he had to fumble the ball when getting hit. So 30 TO are still not much when it comes down to the ball is always in his hands to make a play, cause he barley hands off to a RB. So as far a pure #'s how many Att. did he has compared to his overall TO the ratio is still about the same as all the other top QB. And that does not even take into consideration that his O-line sucks hit all the time. Just like Brady will probably have less fumbles than any QB that played for us last year because he is hit a fraction of the time any QB playing behind our line would be. I just don't like when people use the 30 TO's as there sole reason that he is not smart or careless but then fail to even acknowledge that it was also done in many more opportunities for TO's.

NJFINSFAN1
02-06-2008, 04:41 PM
There is not any physical tool that Ryan has the wow factor in. His arm, athleticism, and mobility are all solid, but nothing that makes him a Number 1 pick in the draft.

Motion
02-06-2008, 04:46 PM
I don't mind your opinion at all when it comes to thing such as what you did or did not like when you watched him play. But even when you throw in the fumble you also have to take into the consideration of the amount of Att. he had to fumble the ball when getting hit. So 30 TO are still not much when it comes down to the ball is always in his hands to make a play, cause he barley hands off to a RB. So as far a pure #'s how many Att. did he has compared to his overall TO the ratio is still about the same as all the other top QB. And that does not even take into consideration that his O-line sucks hit all the time. Just like Brady will probably have less fumbles than any QB that played for us last year because he is hit a fraction of the time any QB playing behind our line would be. I just don't like when people use the 30 TO's as there sole reason that he is not smart or careless but then fail to even acknowledge that it was also done in many more opportunities for TO's.

Fair enough, I can respect that opinion. I think we all want an answer at QB. I just don't think Ryan is it, especially at #1 overall. Should be an interesting FA period and draft.

dan the fin
02-06-2008, 04:58 PM
Fair enough, I can respect that opinion. I think we all want an answer at QB. I just don't think Ryan is it, especially at #1 overall. Should be an interesting FA period and draft.

I respect that opinion as well. I wish there was a clear cut #1 guy. Trade down would be the best, but I really don't see that with out a clear cut #1. Right now I think I would lean towards C. Long at 1 with Ryan and Dorsey right after that. But its still very early so I reserve the right to change my mind at a moments notice.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 05:42 PM
There is not any physical tool that Ryan has the wow factor in. His arm, athleticism, and mobility are all solid, but nothing that makes him a Number 1 pick in the draft. No but his intangibles are through the roof and none of his physical tools are poor. He does everything well with superior intangibles

finfan54
02-06-2008, 05:52 PM
Joe Flacco....get used to it.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 05:53 PM
Joe Flacco....get used to it. Its possible he'll be a late round first pick so he may be off the board when our 2nd comes around

lbmclean_sj
02-06-2008, 05:57 PM
There is not any physical tool that Ryan has the wow factor in. His arm, athleticism, and mobility are all solid, but nothing that makes him a Number 1 pick in the draft.

will we ever stop overrating physical tools in a QB?

Vince Young is horrible throwing on the run, Matt Ryan is quite good at it.

if you want physical abilities, then would you draft Dennis Dixon first?

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 06:27 PM
Was that BP's pick ot Groh's?

Doesnt matter, they were both wrong. No I wasnt talking about Pennington


You are all just kidding right?

2413fanphins
02-06-2008, 06:37 PM
food for thought...


who is the all time record holder for INT's in a career in the nfl.

is he any good?

The Confessor
02-06-2008, 07:00 PM
food for thought...


who is the all time record holder for INT's in a career in the nfl.

is he any good?


Only thing that matters is it isnt Matt Ryan :lol:

Probably Favre...but dont even begin to compare Favre and Ryan at this juncture.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 07:42 PM
Doesnt matter, they were both wrong. No I wasnt talking about Pennington


You are all just kidding right?

What were you talking about? First overall or first rounder? Pennington was 18th overall pick in 2000 when Parcells was the GM

2413fanphins
02-06-2008, 08:02 PM
Only thing that matters is it isnt Matt Ryan :lol:

Probably Favre...but dont even begin to compare Favre and Ryan at this juncture.



your looking too much into the post.

yes I was talking about favre. I think green bay has done just fine putting up with favre throwing int's.



and there is no comparison between the two at this juncture, or perhaps ever.

JT#1
02-06-2008, 08:47 PM
Ryan was made by the VT game where he led them on that 2 minute drive, despite the fact he played badly in that game up until the last 2 minutes. And for all the passes he threw you'd think he would be able to do better than a 1.5/1 TD/Int ratio

Aqua4Ever04
02-06-2008, 08:54 PM
Why would u be extremely mad at aquiring the piece of the puzzle that will get us over the hump? very confusing...are u a Pats fan?

:sidelol:


Wait...

:sidelol:


Okay, I'm done laughing at that statement. Well, I suggest you watch some more Ryan tape. The dude is an interception machine, makes HORRIBLE decisions on the move, and lacks great accuracy. The reason scouts are so high on him is because he's prototypical QB size and has a big arm. He's just another media darling and another reason we can't believe 90% of the scouts out there.

You'd think maybe someday they'd start looking for intangibles, smarts, and accuracy rather then how tall and strong of an arm a quarterback has. There's a reason 50% of first round QBs are COMPLETE busts.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 09:19 PM
Ryan was made by the VT game where he led them on that 2 minute drive, despite the fact he played badly in that game up until the last 2 minutes. And for all the passes he threw you'd think he would be able to do better than a 1.5/1 TD/Int ratio He was the number one QB even before that in alo0t of people's eyes though that game definitely vaulted him past Brohm. After that game you just didnt see anyone have Brohm ahead. But there were already alot of people in his corner before that game

like2god
02-06-2008, 09:28 PM
No but his intangibles are through the roof and none of his physical tools are poor. He does everything well with superior intangibles

We currently have a QB on the roster who was noted for his intangibles as well as the physical tools. Lets give him a chance to see what he can do with some talent around him. ;)

JT#1
02-06-2008, 09:29 PM
He was the number one QB even before that in alo0t of people's eyes though that game definitely vaulted him past Brohm. After that game you just didnt see anyone have Brohm ahead. But there were already alot of people in his corner before that game
I really just don't see it. He stats don't pop out to me, he has a good arm not great.His accuracy is average.And he throws alot of picks in relation to how many TDs he throws(if you defend his picks by saying he throws alot of passes, he should throw more TDs). I think he should be a mid-round first pick but since hes a QB he automatically climbs the rankings.PLUS we don't know what we have in beck, i am all for drafting someone in the 3rd maybe even the 2nd depending on who it is, but #1 pick in the draft when we hae so many other holes and us already having a prospect at QB that we gave only 3 games with a horrible supporting cast agianst 2 of the best Ds in the league and expected him to be Marino.

JT#1
02-06-2008, 09:30 PM
We currently have a QB on the roster who was noted for his intangibles as well as the physical tools. Lets give him a chance to see what he can do with some talent around him. ;)
Can someone tell me how you rank intangibles? isn't the reason their called intangibles because you can't rank them?

Conuficus
02-06-2008, 09:40 PM
Can someone tell me how you rank intangibles? isn't the reason their called intangibles because you can't rank them?

Well for instance if someone says "he has good football instincts". We have all heard that phrase and can tell the difference. For example if we talk about the LB position: Zach Thomas (who I was lucky enough to play against his senior season at TT) is known for his instincts. Channing Crowder on the other hand is not, he is known for gettign caught in the wash and taking bad angles. You may not be able to quantify their existence in numerical form, but they do exist on a visible level.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 10:11 PM
Can someone tell me how you rank intangibles? isn't the reason their called intangibles because you can't rank them?

I think with QBs some of the intangibles are the leadership qualities that the position demands. For instance Ryan has a certain steady confidence throughout his games that gets his players to rally arund him. No matter the situation he never loses his confidence. Similar to how Eli was in the playoffs and SuperBowl. I have heard the same about Beck. I think Beck showed a basic cool in his first two starts and then a sort of a panic set in when things started going wrong in the next two games. Too early to judge Beck on that, I'm just bringing up an examplee of intangible. If Beck displays the cool he had in his first two games throughout his career then you could say that that sort of calm cool persona is an intangible. Obviously if its the second two games that would be a bad intangible.

Some QBs have a knack for pulling out wins in the waning minutes of the game. Elway, Marino, Montana. Their whole teams believed that if they had two minutes and 80 yards to go they were still in it. Ray Lucas on the other hand was devoid of this intangible

Being a sharp mind is another. Having football smarts or great instincts another. A good vocal personality helps also at the QB position. One of the concerns about Flacco coming out of Senior Bowl week was that he was sort of introverted and quiet. You want a more personable character that can rally the troops when things go bad. Beck supposedly had this college but failed to bring it his rookie year. He will have to have that personality to play for Parcells or he will instantly find himself in the doghouse. Parcells doesnt suffer wallfowers

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 10:20 PM
I really just don't see it. He stats don't pop out to me, he has a good arm not great.His accuracy is average.And he throws alot of picks in relation to how many TDs he throws(if you defend his picks by saying he throws alot of passes, he should throw more TDs). I think he should be a mid-round first pick but since hes a QB he automatically climbs the rankings.PLUS we don't know what we have in beck, i am all for drafting someone in the 3rd maybe even the 2nd depending on who it is, but #1 pick in the draft when we hae so many other holes and us already having a prospect at QB that we gave only 3 games with a horrible supporting cast agianst 2 of the best Ds in the league and expected him to be Marino.

Yeah I really think the openess to drafting Beck is in direct realtion to how much hope or belief you have that Beck can develop into a Drew Bress type of career. If you believe he's on his way and just needs time then the urgency to draft a QB disipates. If you are unsure you are willing to leave it to Parcells to decide. If you feel that the odds of that happening are huge or dont believe that then I think you definitely want Ryan.

It also depends on how you view the comparison between Ryan and Beck. Me personally, I feel that Beck is more likely to be a better version of Fiedler but not in the Drew Brees category. Ryan on the other hand has impressed the hell out of me and feel he's a fifty fifty shot of becoming a top ten QB with a floor no lower than a top 15. At worst I think he's Matt Schaub and therefore I'm much more willing o spend the draft pick because even if he doesnt get above the Matt Scvhaub level that is still a tradeable player. And if Beck rises above that level we can trade Ryan. But if Beck cant rise above that level then we would have someone who's capable of leading us at least into the playoffs and if things break right into the SB

Nappy Roots
02-06-2008, 10:39 PM
ryan better get a WHOLE lot more accurate to even be in Schaubs category. much less at least better then him. Schaub completed 10% more of his passes and had a much much better TD/INT ratio coming out

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 10:51 PM
ryan better get a WHOLE lot more accurate to even be in Schaubs category. much less at least better then him. Schaub completed 10% more of his passes and had a much much better TD/INT ratio coming out He also had Wali Lundy to make the defenses play the run and Heath Miller to throw to. The stats are basically similar when you adjust for talent level

Conuficus
02-06-2008, 11:02 PM
He also had Wali Lundy to make the defenses play the run and Heath Miller to throw to. The stats are basically similar when you adjust for talent level

And the formula for that is?

J/K but you can't really say that can you. If that's the case Joey Harrington could look like Brett Favre if he played in GB isn't it. I know that is not the best example but you get the point.

adamprez2003
02-06-2008, 11:11 PM
And the formula for that is?

J/K but you can't really say that can you. If that's the case Joey Harrington could look like Brett Favre if he played in GB isn't it. I know that is not the best example but you get the point.

Absolutely. This is more of an art than science and how much you adjust will differ with everybody but I think not adjusting it, whatever the formula, is just lazy. If you dont adjust performance for outside factors then we should just cut Beck right now because his stats stunk. Obviously you're going to adjust for the fact he played on a poor team and he was a rookie. How much is up to the individual and no universal formula exists

Conuficus
02-06-2008, 11:30 PM
Absolutely. This is more of an art than science and how much you adjust will differ with everybody but I think not adjusting it, whatever the formula, is just lazy. If you dont adjust performance for outside factors then we should just cut Beck right now because his stats stunk. Obviously you're going to adjust for the fact he played on a poor team and he was a rookie. How much is up to the individual and no universal formula exists

I was being sarcastic.

I know it is just a matter of opinion and perspective,.........otherwise how would one scout Steve McNair at Alcorn St. I've never heard of anyone in the NFL before or since. There couldn't have been that much talent there, and people still saw him.

UGA_DOLPHIN
02-06-2008, 11:42 PM
Ryan may be the best quarterback in the draft this year but thats like being the coolest guy at shenanigans. Has it worked out for San Francisco when they took the so called best QB in the draft at #1 in Alex Smith- its starting to look like he is on his way to being a bust. I think that in the QB class this year there are good QBs but not great ones. Im not saying that one of the many QBs available in the draft wont turn out to be possibly franchise quarterbacks/ I dont think its worth the first round choice given the guaranteed money.

adamprez2003
02-07-2008, 12:04 AM
I was being sarcastic.

I know it is just a matter of opinion and perspective,.........otherwise how would one scout Steve McNair at Alcorn St. I've never heard of anyone in the NFL before or since. There couldn't have been that much talent there, and people still saw him.:lol: I know you were but I thought it gave me a good opportunity to spew my thoughts. Dont mess with my soapbox man:err:

lbmclean_sj
02-07-2008, 02:41 AM
its funny how the crowd who 12 months ago thought Colt Brennan was the next Marino are now panning Ryan's stats

JCowScot
02-07-2008, 03:33 AM
...Im not saying that one of the many QBs available in the draft wont turn out to be possibly franchise quarterbacks/ I dont think its worth the first round choice given the guaranteed money.


True, true. There are players that are arguably just as good at positions that are more in need (and if you think that DL isn't as important as QB, look at this past years' Phins or G-Men. Thank you.) Also, it (realistically) takes 4 YEARS to develop a QB. Only the great ones, or those thrust into ideal situations (Big Ben), have sustained success in a shorter period. Of course, this doesn't bode well for Beck (he'll be 30), but considering the mileage on his body, he could conceivably last to Moon age (40). Either way, that's still 5-10 yrs. of good, stable QB play. Which means we have the next 9-12 yrs. to pick the next franchise QB if this scenario holds true. Granted, that's a big IF; but tell me how you justify spending 40+ MILLION DOLLARS on a position that we drafted high for last year when you won't even know how TRULY good he is for another year or two, at least.:err: Simple economics tells me that the money could be better spent elsewhere, whilst still drafting to provide that all-important 'QB competition' that everyone is sooooo worried about having. (As if Beck needs any help being driven...):sidelol:

DefensiveEnd76
02-07-2008, 07:14 AM
Matt Ryan reminds me of Brad Johnson. Therefore to take him with the #1 overall pick is simply insanity at its best

1Hawdolfin4L
02-07-2008, 07:54 AM
Anybody else have problems with this site? Even when I'm logged in I cannot post, lots of times I gotta re-log just to post.

Wolf13
02-07-2008, 08:12 AM
you mean that 1.5/1 TD/INT ratio. yup, that proves he doesnt throw to many INTs.

I recall reading post where someone put together the TD/INT ratio's for the great QBs (post was titled Brady, best QB-or something like that)

Marino had a ratio of like 1.7/1

I don't know but that's pretty close to what Ryan currently has. I'm not saying that that will directly translate into the NFL, but the main thing is he's not causing more turnovers than he's scoring TDs

Conuficus
02-07-2008, 08:32 AM
:lol: I know you were but I thought it gave me a good opportunity to spew my thoughts. Dont mess with my soapbox man:err:

so what, now you're gonna put your toys in your soap box and go home? Thats nice.

There's is just no pleasing some people, is there?

Conuficus
02-07-2008, 08:37 AM
Matt Ryan reminds me of Brad Johnson. Therefore to take him with the #1 overall pick is simply insanity at its best


I swear, outside of Johnson I can't think of any SB winning QB who gets less respect than he does. If he reminds you of Johnson isn't that a good thing? The guy has played well, is known as a cerreberal QB who doesn't make mistakes. Now his arm strength you can debate and I will say is lacking, but other than that he does what he's asked.

You wouldn't take Brad Johnson like QB for this team? We haven't had a QB who could do better here in like 3-4 years. Frerrotte has been the best we've had over the last 4 years. That being said I need to find a strong beam and some rope,............preferrably not too long.

2413fanphins
02-07-2008, 12:13 PM
I swear, outside of Johnson I can't think of any SB winning QB who gets less respect than he does. If he reminds you of Johnson isn't that a good thing? The guy has played well, is known as a cerreberal QB who doesn't make mistakes. Now his arm strength you can debate and I will say is lacking, but other than that he does what he's asked.

You wouldn't take Brad Johnson like QB for this team? We haven't had a QB who could do better here in like 3-4 years. Frerrotte has been the best we've had over the last 4 years. That being said I need to find a strong beam and some rope,............preferrably not too long.


I have also found that short rope will work the best for you in situations like that.
:up:

Conuficus
02-07-2008, 12:19 PM
I have also found that short rope will work the best for you in situations like that.
:up:

See its posts like this that make Finheaven so much fun. the care and compassion my fellow posters show is just remarkable. A complete starnger such as yourself goes out of their way to offer helpful advice in my hour of need. What else can one ask for?

Anyone got a line on a bank that doesn't lock it's vault? it worked last time what the hell? Maybe somebody will know.

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 01:22 PM
Comparing Matt Ryan to Brad Johnson is an awful comparison. The only legitimate comparison is that they are both tall. Johnson is a caretaker. Ryan is a play maker.

In addition, many of the interceptions Ryan threw were either catchable balls his receivers tipped up into defenders hands or poor routes where his receiver allowed himself to be redirected quite easily while the ball was in the air.

jim1
02-07-2008, 01:30 PM
We currently have a QB on the roster who was noted for his intangibles as well as the physical tools. Lets give him a chance to see what he can do with some talent around him. ;)

Best comment that I've read today. Beck has the tools, mentally and physically. Let's give him a chance to work his mojo and draft a supporting cast to help him out. I'm firmly in Beck's corner- I think that he could use a top notch body guard like Jake Long or Gosder Cherilius, that's my wish list.

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 01:37 PM
Jake is going to start to slide. I think the media is off on him. He is not an elite body guard. In fact, he is more suited for the right side, and even their I am concerned about his strength.

That said, I do believe it would be very difficult to pass on Glenn Dorsey.

jim1
02-07-2008, 02:05 PM
Jake is going to start to slide. I think the media is off on him. He is not an elite body guard. In fact, he is more suited for the right side, and even their I am concerned about his strength.

That said, I do believe it would be very difficult to pass on Glenn Dorsey.

Concerned about his strength? Are you for real? He's done 47 reps of 225 lbs. And at 6-7 315 lbs the dude runs a 5.05. He might not have the feet of Joe Thomas, D-Brick or Walter Jones, but I'll take him for sure.

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 02:14 PM
I am for real. Also, I would be shocked if he did 47 reps of 225. Absolutely shocked.

Long is a right tackle who is going to have to improve his strength at the next level.

That said, I do agree that he will run an extremely impressive forty time.

The Confessor
02-07-2008, 02:25 PM
I am for real. Also, I would be shocked if he did 47 reps of 225. Absolutely shocked.

Long is a right tackle who is going to have to improve his strength at the next level.

That said, I do agree that he will run an extremely impressive forty time.


As much as I agree that Jake Long is going to be a stellar RIGHT tackle, I would NEVER question his strength. Actually his strength is his only real strength right now... if that makes sense

The guy is an absolute physical speciman, and is used to man-handling guys his size..but thats the problem, in the NFL he is going to have smaller guys playing RDE that are gonna make him whiff.,.and anytime your LT whiffs, it is not good for your QB:up:

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 02:43 PM
I am concerned that he is really going to struggle to anchor against an NFL caliber bull rush. This, coupled with his average lateral movement skills make me very, very concerned about his future at the next level.

I fear he is going to continue to allow defensive lineman to gain leverage and get into his body. I feel this may continue to create technique issues where he is often overextended in the hope that he will not get delivered into the quarterbacks lap. This was not only the case against Vernon Gholston, but also against other sometimes lesser defenders at school's like Illinois and Florida.

The Confessor
02-07-2008, 02:50 PM
I am concerned that he is really going to struggle to anchor against an NFL caliber bull rush. This, coupled with his average lateral movement skills make me very, very concerned about his future at the next level.

I fear he is going to continue to allow defensive lineman to gain leverage and get into his body. I feel this may continue to create technique issues where he is often overextended in the hope that he will not get delivered into the quarterbacks lap. This was not only the case against Vernon Gholston, but also against other sometimes lesser defenders at school's like Illinois and Florida.



I Dont understand. If he is allowing guys to get into his body, how is he overextended? That is an oxymoron..with all due respect

I did see him get murderized (Is that a word) against Illinois.

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 02:56 PM
What he does is that he often allows defenders into his body. To combat this, he often allows himself to get overextended by really anchoring and bending at the waist a little.

He obviously does not do both at once. In essence, the frequency in which he struggles with keeping defenders off his body has led to him often trying to anchor against the incoming barrage, thus finding himself overextended. The overextending is related to the problems with stronger players.

That is why defenders who can do both, Vernon Gholston for instance, completely out class him.

The Confessor
02-07-2008, 03:02 PM
What he does is that he often allows defenders into his body. To combat this, he often allows himself to get overextended by really anchoring and bending at the waist a little.

He obviously does not do both at once. In essence, the frequency in which he struggles with keeping defenders off his body has led to him often trying to anchor against the incoming barrage, thus finding himself overextended. The overextending is related to the problems with stronger players.

That is why defenders who can do both, Vernon Gholston for instance, completely out class him.


I thought it was just cause VG was so much quicker that he couldnt keep up with him. I obviously dont have as much knowledge as you do in this area..thanks for clearing it up :up:

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 03:08 PM
Nobody is assured of being right in this situation. That said, check out the Michigan - Ohio State game if you can and see if you agree.

dan the fin
02-07-2008, 06:05 PM
Nobody is assured of being right in this situation. That said, check out the Michigan - Ohio State game if you can and see if you agree.

I am a huge Mich fan and while I think he carries to much risk for 1st overall. It has nothing at all to do with strength, if you try to bull rush him it is over Long has won. This is why Long is such a good run blocking tackle. Were he struggles is with speed rushers. In the OSU game VG only beat him using speed moves, if VG tried to straight bull rush Long it will be a long long day for VG. A lot of his problems with speed rushers though may be because of the way Mich teaches there O-linemen, cause they like power type blocking, so they put more stock on strength instead of quickness.

Ghetti13
02-07-2008, 06:21 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I saw numerous occasions where Long struggled with players gaining leverage and moving him straight back into the quarterback. I also saw instances where his high cut body and lack of ideal leverage limited his ability to really get a really strong consistent push in the running game. I know that that will be disagreed with, but I guess we will see.

Time will tell.

2413fanphins
02-07-2008, 06:49 PM
If I remember correctly, jake long gave up ONE sack to VG...

I certainly don't remember long getting lit up all game long, I could be wrong but that is my recollection.

I'm still not convinced jake long can't play LT. Were not giving our oline coach much credit if we are already establishing jake long as a failure at LT. imo

Conuficus
02-07-2008, 11:30 PM
Concerned about his strength? Are you for real? He's done 47 reps of 225 lbs. And at 6-7 315 lbs the dude runs a 5.05. He might not have the feet of Joe Thomas, D-Brick or Walter Jones, but I'll take him for sure.

I think if he threw up 47 reps at the Combine, it would be a record. Or am I wrong here?

Jed
02-08-2008, 12:37 AM
Ryan was made by the VT game where he led them on that 2 minute drive, despite the fact he played badly in that game up until the last 2 minutes. And for all the passes he threw you'd think he would be able to do better than a 1.5/1 TD/Int ratio


I completely agree, and wow what a great sig!