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SkapePhin
02-08-2008, 07:28 PM
This is really a response to this comment: "Christians are one of a select few groups unprotected by political correctness.", but I figure it deserved its own thread because I feel it is worthy of discussion..

IMO, political correctness can only really be applied in regards to what a person cannot control - unalterable, inherent physical traits and the like. I feel, that if you make a CHOICE to believe in something, it is fair game to be discussed, questioned, and yes, even poked fun at..

If I were to say, "Irish people are dumb", it wouldnt be fair because noone chooses to be Irish. And, like in everything, there are people of all types within all walks of life and ethnicities. Being irish is not a conscious choice.

Now, if I were to say, "Scientologists are dumb", its not the same thing.. Noone forced someone to believe in Xenu, and if I want to go and say "believing in Xenu is plain stupid, there is no evidence of an alien invader, yada yada yada", I have every right to do so.. The Scientologist made a CHOICE to have this belief.

Same goes for someone's musical preference, or sense of style, sports team fan affiliation, etc.

Now DISCRIMINATION is another matter.. I dont think its right to discriminate against someone based upon their beliefs, no matter how ridiculous I might find them to be. I shall always respect their RIGHT to believe as they do, and worship the way they wish, so insofar that their method of worship does not impede on the basic human rights of others.

But can I question the religious beliefs of others? Of course. Can I begin discussion bringing to task certain aspects of a person's religious beliefs? Absolutely. Can I call people names, throw rocks at, or assault a person based on a person's religious beliefs? Absolutely not.

Honestly, I think people are a bit too touchy when it comes to religion. I dont see how its any different than someone saying they believe in Aliens or Ghosts, and people who come forward with those beliefs are almost always laughed off. So what makes a religious belief different? Because more people believe it? Why is it ok to laugh at people who say they saw aliens and ghosts, but not people who say they talked to God?

Jets81
02-08-2008, 08:12 PM
You need to watch yourself chief. You don't want to go pissing of Xenu now do you?

Eshlemon
02-08-2008, 09:29 PM
I disagree, political correctness is derived from attempting to avoid any real or perceived deragatory stereotying or insult of any group in society. Whether it's religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity, politics, where you're born, etc. the grouping itself (choice/no choice in your example) is not the basis of PC. How the group is being described and referenced to is the basis of PC.

SkapePhin
02-08-2008, 09:45 PM
I disagree, political correctness is derived from attempting to avoid any real or perceived deragatory stereotying or insult of any group in society. Whether it's religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity, politics, where you're born, etc. the grouping itself (choice/no choice in your example) is not the basis of PC. How the group is being described and referenced to is the basis of PC.

Would you consider this thread to be politically incorrect? http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208969

Because apparently many people believe it to be... Again, what you are referring to is discrimination..

I dont think its stereotyping to say that all Christians believe in Jesus. That is a fact. Now, if I dispute that claim, or state that I believe their belief in a divine messiah born of a virgin is ridiculous, is that politically incorrect?

Sethdaddy8
02-08-2008, 10:11 PM
This is really a response to this comment: "Christians are one of a select few groups unprotected by political correctness.", but I figure it deserved its own thread because I feel it is worthy of discussion..

IMO, political correctness can only really be applied in regards to what a person cannot control - unalterable, inherent physical traits and the like. I feel, that if you make a CHOICE to believe in something, it is fair game to be discussed, questioned, and yes, even poked fun at..

If I were to say, "Irish people are dumb", it wouldnt be fair because noone chooses to be Irish. And, like in everything, there are people of all types within all walks of life and ethnicities. Being irish is not a conscious choice.

Now, if I were to say, "Scientologists are dumb", its not the same thing.. Noone forced someone to believe in Xenu, and if I want to go and say "believing in Xenu is plain stupid, there is no evidence of an alien invader, yada yada yada", I have every right to do so.. The Scientologist made a CHOICE to have this belief.

Same goes for someone's musical preference, or sense of style, sports team fan affiliation, etc.

Now DISCRIMINATION is another matter.. I dont think its right to discriminate against someone based upon their beliefs, no matter how ridiculous I might find them to be. I shall always respect their RIGHT to believe as they do, and worship the way they wish, so insofar that their method of worship does not impede on the basic human rights of others.

But can I question the religious beliefs of others? Of course. Can I begin discussion bringing to task certain aspects of a person's religious beliefs? Absolutely. Can I call people names, throw rocks at, or assault a person based on a person's religious beliefs? Absolutely not.

Honestly, I think people are a bit too touchy when it comes to religion. I dont see how its any different than someone saying they believe in Aliens or Ghosts, and people who come forward with those beliefs are almost always laughed off. So what makes a religious belief different? Because more people believe it? Why is it ok to laugh at people who say they saw aliens and ghosts, but not people who say they talked to God?

For many people, religion is something that is pressed onto them. they have a choice ultimately, but being spoon-fed and handled a certain way for 18 years in many cases, makes it more than a simple choice for many individuals. the fact of the matter is, people should be conscious of other peoples feelings and people should respect their fellow man.

scientology gets a bad rap because to traditional cultures, its freakin wacky. but they keep to themselves. they never knock on your door and ask for your ear. and if their own wants to donate and take care of their own, then good for them.

its basically just rude to stir the pot and cause trouble, for the sake of causing trouble. thats not the human thing to do. i'd be mindful to deliberately start a discussion, with the intention to dissect and tear apart something that many other people would hold dear, just for what would be, ultimately, your own amusement.

you can sit across from a muslim or a catholic, and tell them they're wrong, they're a zealot, they're crazy for believing in a higher power. but honestly, what the hell do you or anyone else really know about it? its belief in a faith. there is no admission of fact anywhere. no one knows for certain what is what.

bad apples always ruin the bunch, but this should not motivate you into thinking all people of faith are crazy zealots. that'd be like assuming, to go back to your example, all Irish people are drunks. when it comes to religion, i say live and let live...and do unto others.:wink:

Dolphan7
02-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Would you consider this thread to be politically incorrect? http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208969

Because apparently many people believe it to be... Again, what you are referring to is discrimination..

I dont think its stereotyping to say that all Christians believe in Jesus. That is a fact. Now, if I dispute that claim, or state that I believe their belief in a divine messiah born of a virgin is ridiculous, is that politically incorrect?
I think if you say something like this "I think Christianity is stupid". Then that is your opinion based on your own intellect and research and belief and whatever.

But if you say somthing like "I think you are stupid for believing in Chsitianity", well then that makes it personal, and that I feel is the line that should not be crossed.

I may not agree with what others believe in, but I don't consider them stupid for believing in it.

It's called respect.

cnc66
02-08-2008, 11:28 PM
Would you consider this thread to be politically incorrect? http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208969

Because apparently many people believe it to be... Again, what you are referring to is discrimination..

I dont think its stereotyping to say that all Christians believe in Jesus. That is a fact. Now, if I dispute that claim, or state that I believe their belief in a divine messiah born of a virgin is ridiculous, is that politically incorrect?

This is a forum for discussion of science, and of religion. It will not be used to disparage other posters. You created that thread to denigrate others who's beliefs you do not hold, as the title and your comments had absolutely nothing to do with the discovery. You used it as a vehicle to express disdain of your fellow posters beliefs.. KNOWING that they hold these sacred.. it was a calculated prod,and your purpose was to inflame the forum. My comments to your thread had nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with respect of others in this forum. Now, you have created another thread designed to whip the flames of religious passion.. I suggest you post carefully.

Everyone may discuss any and all aspects of religion, but the minute you bait or insult the hammer will come down. You will not tear up this forum because you feel like pushing the limits of proper behavior and respect, no matter how rediculous you feel someone elses beliefs are. Treat each others beliefs with respect, and do not make personal comments.

Eshlemon
02-08-2008, 11:33 PM
Would you consider this thread to be politically incorrect? http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208969

Because apparently many people believe it to be... Again, what you are referring to is discrimination..

I dont think its stereotyping to say that all Christians believe in Jesus. That is a fact. Now, if I dispute that claim, or state that I believe their belief in a divine messiah born of a virgin is ridiculous, is that politically incorrect?

I doubt many Christians will find it insulting or deragatory stereotyping for you to state Christians believe in Jesus. Depends completely on how you state your dispute, if deragagory or insulting you aren't being PC. PC isn't about disagreement or difference in society, but about how you express your disagreement or describe differences in society.

Celtkin
02-09-2008, 12:03 AM
Would you consider this thread to be politically incorrect? http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208969

Because apparently many people believe it to be... Again, what you are referring to is discrimination..

I dont think its stereotyping to say that all Christians believe in Jesus. That is a fact. Now, if I dispute that claim, or state that I believe their belief in a divine messiah born of a virgin is ridiculous, is that politically incorrect?

I think your approach to that subject (i.e. the title of the thread) was uncalled for and calling anyone or any position "stupid" does little to promote an honest debate.

Majpain
02-09-2008, 03:58 AM
Rest assured Scientology is not a religion. Its a destructive Cult, and that is fact.

They only became a religion because Hubbard threated to sue the IRS to get them Tax Exempt.

DonShula84
02-09-2008, 05:29 PM
If I were to say, "Irish people are dumb", it wouldnt be fair because noone chooses to be Irish. And, like in everything, there are people of all types within all walks of life and ethnicities. Being irish is not a conscious choice.I think you meant to say unfair :up: Sorry but you used the Irish as an example so I have to step in lol.

Stitches
02-09-2008, 07:03 PM
Rest assured Scientology is not a religion. Its a destructive Cult, and that is fact.

They only became a religion because Hubbard threated to sue the IRS to get them Tax Exempt.

How is it a destructive cult? :err:

FINintheMOON
02-14-2008, 11:11 PM
OK... Read the whole thread and I find it hard to believe that this was not LOCKED down... However, I also believe in freedom of speach and such but this post is DEFINITELY pushing the limits!!!

SkapePhin
02-16-2008, 03:49 PM
For the record, I dont claim that religious belief automatically renders a person unintelligent. There are many brilliant religious people, but still doesnt mean I have to sit by and pretend that that particular belief isnt silly..

Fact is, Religion is the ONLY belief a person can have with no evidence to support it and not be ridiculed by others in society.. Wrap wishful thinking and fantasy in a blanket of sanctity, and suddenly its off limits.. well, as long as a good chunk of the populace also agree with your fantastic belief.. Otherwise you are just a looney cult member...

Is there a book out there that studies the evolution of a cult belief into an organized religion? Its honestly a quite spectacular socio-cultural phenomenon. Every major Religion began as a cult, but somehow made that transition to mainstream.. I tend to think politics is what pushes "cult" to "religion".. I would be interested in finding something that analyzes this in depth.

SkapePhin
02-16-2008, 03:51 PM
OK... Read the whole thread and I find it hard to believe that this was not LOCKED down... However, I also believe in freedom of speach and such but this post is DEFINITELY pushing the limits!!!

How does this push the limits?? Good Grief...

CharlestonPhan
02-16-2008, 10:03 PM
This is really a response to this comment: "Christians are one of a select few groups unprotected by political correctness.", but I figure it deserved its own thread because I feel it is worthy of discussion..

IMO, political correctness can only really be applied in regards to what a person cannot control - unalterable, inherent physical traits and the like. I feel, that if you make a CHOICE to believe in something, it is fair game to be discussed, questioned, and yes, even poked fun at..

If I were to say, "Irish people are dumb", it wouldnt be fair because noone chooses to be Irish. And, like in everything, there are people of all types within all walks of life and ethnicities. Being irish is not a conscious choice.

Now, if I were to say, "Scientologists are dumb", its not the same thing.. Noone forced someone to believe in Xenu, and if I want to go and say "believing in Xenu is plain stupid, there is no evidence of an alien invader, yada yada yada", I have every right to do so.. The Scientologist made a CHOICE to have this belief.

here is the problem i have with what you are saying above; people can choose to allow the opinions of others offend them, or they can choose not to let others have that power over them.

and that is regardless of what type of derogatory statement someone makes about someone else.

PC is often used in an attempt to stifle the opinions of others and label them as a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. in order to shut them up, by someone who has no logical argument to counter what the other person says.

and in turn they hold themselves, or entire groups of people above scrutiny.

that is why i attempt to ignore PC. the standards are ever changing, and not very well defined.

SkapePhin
02-23-2008, 06:37 AM
What I find interesting is that this topic appears to be nondebateable.. People gave there 2 cents, but there was really no debate on this issue.. It seems like the consesus is, "faith cannot be questioned. period. the end".. I simply do not understand that..

Its like Russel's Teapot...

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

So odd...The second you claim something as sacred, it cannot even be debated or it is seen as attack upon the very people who believe it..

Pagan
02-23-2008, 10:00 AM
Never heard of the teapot theory. I've always used the "Care Bear" theory when debating with D7. The Care Bears created the earth and heaven in 6 days. You can't disprove that they didn't, therefore the must have. :tongue:

cnc66
02-23-2008, 10:07 AM
Do Wiccans have a "creation" story?

Pagan
02-23-2008, 01:18 PM
Do Wiccans have a "creation" story?
Nope.

Dolphan7
02-23-2008, 03:47 PM
What I find interesting is that this topic appears to be nondebateable.. People gave there 2 cents, but there was really no debate on this issue.. It seems like the consesus is, "faith cannot be questioned. period. the end".. I simply do not understand that..

Its like Russel's Teapot...

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

So odd...The second you claim something as sacred, it cannot even be debated or it is seen as attack upon the very people who believe it..Skape, several well intentioned posters have tried to explain their faith with you and yet you can't even acknowledge the basic premise, let alone the more deeper issues of faith. So much so that they feel that debating with you is pointless.

So now you want basically permission to attack them at a personal level.

Ain't gonna happen.

Dol-Fan Dupree
02-23-2008, 10:35 PM
here is the problem i have with what you are saying above; people can choose to allow the opinions of others offend them, or they can choose not to let others have that power over them.

and that is regardless of what type of derogatory statement someone makes about someone else.

PC is often used in an attempt to stifle the opinions of others and label them as a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. in order to shut them up, by someone who has no logical argument to counter what the other person says.

and in turn they hold themselves, or entire groups of people above scrutiny.

that is why i attempt to ignore PC. the standards are ever changing, and not very well defined.

PC is a term used by people who want to insult people in anyway they want to. They want to say something that someone else finds harmful. It is a way to attack people for having feelings and emotionas about words. It is a way to get back on the black people for not allowing them to be called *******.

The people who are against being "PC" are also the type of people who like to force their will and beliefs on others. Telling them that their hatred shouldn't hurt them because they know what is best for them. With colorful thoughtful language such as, "If I call you a ****** and you get upset by it, you are just giving your power away you stupid ******".

Also they seem to have a problem with the idea of change. Like the want some rulebook out of life and for it to stay the same for thousands of years. The idea of that is laughable of course. Life is change. Constant change.

ih8brady
02-23-2008, 11:51 PM
PC is a term used by people who want to insult people in anyway they want to. They want to say something that someone else finds harmful. It is a way to attack people for having feelings and emotionas about words. It is a way to get back on the black people for not allowing them to be called *******.

The people who are against being "PC" are also the type of people who like to force their will and beliefs on others. Telling them that their hatred shouldn't hurt them because they know what is best for them. With colorful thoughtful language such as, "If I call you a ****** and you get upset by it, you are just giving your power away you stupid ******".

Also they seem to have a problem with the idea of change. Like the want some rulebook out of life and for it to stay the same for thousands of years. The idea of that is laughable of course. Life is change. Constant change.

I'd define PC as valuing feelings over truth. And trying to discuss the legitimacy of PCness is not the same as being a racist or a bigot or someone opposed to progress/change.

Celtkin
02-24-2008, 01:19 AM
Skape, several well intentioned posters have tried to explain their faith with you and yet you can't even acknowledge the basic premise, let alone the more deeper issues of faith. So much so that they feel that debating with you is pointless.

So now you want basically permission to attack them at a personal level.

Ain't gonna happen.

IMO, he has restated what most faith-based religions is based upon -- belief on an unseen deity that is supported by conjecture, smoke and fuzzy feelings.

Is he wrong? Are you wrong?

Who knows because there is no clear factual evidence that God does or does not exist.

Celtkin
02-24-2008, 01:20 AM
Nope.

Pardon?

unluckyluciano
02-24-2008, 01:32 AM
What I find interesting is that this topic appears to be nondebateable.. People gave there 2 cents, but there was really no debate on this issue.. It seems like the consesus is, "faith cannot be questioned. period. the end".. I simply do not understand that..

Its like Russel's Teapot...

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

So odd...The second you claim something as sacred, it cannot even be debated or it is seen as attack upon the very people who believe it..
Not really to intrude, but its one thing to debate its another to act condecending towards someone and their beliefs. To do so is considered an "act of war" if you will. If you wish to debate something honestly then it is not outside the realm of reason, which you seem to wish to maintain your status in, to treat the person you are debating with as you equal rather then as your inferior you are trying to school. Making light of, being condecending, I think as the smart person you are, you realize that those are just means to get a rise out of someone and put them on the defensive not a means to debate. That to me would be the problem some have with the way you approach subjects.

Perfik Season
02-24-2008, 05:16 AM
Because religion is religion, but Christianity is a reality.
There is plenty of evidence to back it up, it is just that non-believers choose not to see it.

Perfik Season
02-24-2008, 05:40 AM
What I find interesting is that this topic appears to be nondebateable.. People gave there 2 cents, but there was really no debate on this issue.. It seems like the consesus is, "faith cannot be questioned. period. the end".. I simply do not understand that..


So odd...The second you claim something as sacred, it cannot even be debated or it is seen as attack upon the very people who believe it..

You are right, you do not understand, therefore it is impossible for you to engage in debate. You obviously have no sense of what it is to make a stand for something.
I am guessing that there is somebody in your life that you love. I bet every day you have these feelings inside that you love that person. I can't see those feelings, so I would just have to take your word for it that you do feel that way. I can't prove that love exists, I just know it. Love can only be seen by the things or actions that it causes people to do. Faith is this way also, show me your actions and I will see your faith.
I take this very seriously. What you don't know can kill you. If you don't know God, you are already dead, you are a dead man walking...for without Christ, there is no eternal life. To you it makes no difference when you die it's just like a candle being snuffed out. Best make the most of this life cause that's all you get. I wouldn't be wasting my precious little 70 years of existence typing on a litle forum if that's all the time I had to live.

cnc66
02-24-2008, 07:54 AM
Nope.

freal? y'alls Goddesses and Gods just appeared at some "undefined" point? I am "sorta" up to speed on the worlds various religions, and off the top of my head I cannot recall any without some sort of creation story. My education continues.. I really would like to sit with you sometime and talk about this stuff.

Pagan
02-24-2008, 08:48 AM
Pardon?

freal? y'alls Goddesses and Gods just appeared at some "undefined" point? I am "sorta" up to speed on the worlds various religions, and off the top of my head I cannot recall any without some sort of creation story. My education continues.. I really would like to sit with you sometime and talk about this stuff.
Hard to explain. We do believe in some form of creation obviously started by deity, but it's more natural. More like the seeds of life were planted and allowed to grow naturally. There's no real "creation story". No 6 day miracle thing.

Pagan
02-24-2008, 08:52 AM
I am guessing that there is somebody in your life that you love. I bet every day you have these feelings inside that you love that person. I can't see those feelings, so I would just have to take your word for it that you do feel that way. I can't prove that love exists, I just know it. Love can only be seen by the things or actions that it causes people to do. Faith is this way also, show me your actions and I will see your faith.
Terrible analogy.

You're correct in that you can't see his feelings. However, if he says he loves someone, you CAN see the person he loves. He or she is real, and can be touched and his/her existence proven.

You're asking him to believe that not only is your love real, but the object of your love - which can't be proven to exist either - is also real.


I take this very seriously. What you don't know can kill you. If you don't know God, you are already dead, you are a dead man walking...for without Christ, there is no eternal life. To you it makes no difference when you die it's just like a candle being snuffed out. Best make the most of this life cause that's all you get. I wouldn't be wasting my precious little 70 years of existence typing on a litle forum if that's all the time I had to live.
YOU BELIEVE that he is a dead man walking. Doesn't mean it's true.

Your faith is strong, and that's a good thing. But so is the faith of those who follow different paths. For you to say something like that to him is pompous and arrogant.

But - sadly - par for the course.

cnc66
02-24-2008, 09:16 AM
Hard to explain. We do believe in some form of creation obviously started by deity, but it's more natural. More like the seeds of life were planted and allowed to grow naturally. There's no real "creation story". No 6 day miracle thing.

ahh, thanks bro, I appreciate it when you answer my questions.

Celtkin
02-24-2008, 11:29 AM
Hard to explain. We do believe in some form of creation obviously started by deity, but it's more natural. More like the seeds of life were planted and allowed to grow naturally. There's no real "creation story". No 6 day miracle thing.

:lol: Thanks. You had me stumped there for a minute.

Da 'Fins
02-24-2008, 05:42 PM
This is really a response to this comment: "Christians are one of a select few groups unprotected by political correctness.", but I figure it deserved its own thread because I feel it is worthy of discussion..

IMO, political correctness can only really be applied in regards to what a person cannot control - unalterable, inherent physical traits and the like. I feel, that if you make a CHOICE to believe in something, it is fair game to be discussed, questioned, and yes, even poked fun at..

If I were to say, "Irish people are dumb", it wouldnt be fair because noone chooses to be Irish. And, like in everything, there are people of all types within all walks of life and ethnicities. Being irish is not a conscious choice.

Now, if I were to say, "Scientologists are dumb", its not the same thing.. Noone forced someone to believe in Xenu, and if I want to go and say "believing in Xenu is plain stupid, there is no evidence of an alien invader, yada yada yada", I have every right to do so.. The Scientologist made a CHOICE to have this belief.

Same goes for someone's musical preference, or sense of style, sports team fan affiliation, etc.

Now DISCRIMINATION is another matter.. I dont think its right to discriminate against someone based upon their beliefs, no matter how ridiculous I might find them to be. I shall always respect their RIGHT to believe as they do, and worship the way they wish, so insofar that their method of worship does not impede on the basic human rights of others.

But can I question the religious beliefs of others? Of course. Can I begin discussion bringing to task certain aspects of a person's religious beliefs? Absolutely. Can I call people names, throw rocks at, or assault a person based on a person's religious beliefs? Absolutely not.

Honestly, I think people are a bit too touchy when it comes to religion. I dont see how its any different than someone saying they believe in Aliens or Ghosts, and people who come forward with those beliefs are almost always laughed off. So what makes a religious belief different? Because more people believe it? Why is it ok to laugh at people who say they saw aliens and ghosts, but not people who say they talked to God?

I agree completely. And, in the same way, it is not discrimination to argue that non-belief in God is wrong or to argue and seek to convince in the public square that a particular practice is immoral. Such discussions should, ideally, be conducted with civility.

I think the challenge here with PC is that in some circles, it's perfectly appropriate to ridicule and make fun of Christianity (which is different from arguing against it on a rational basis), yet, in those same circles, it's highly off limits to do the same with homosexuality or Islam. In Hollywood and the National Media, it has become not only tolerable, but fashionable (to the point of fetishistic) to mock Christianity - often with a series of straw man arguments - and yet, those same would not dare mock so many other beliefs.

Mel Gibson (and I believe he was quite wrong in what he did) was excoriated for ripping on Jews in his drunken tirade a few years ago; had he said the same about Christians - the religious right would have been in an uproar - but ultimately - people in Hollywood and most of the national media would have given him a "wink" and a pass and he would not have been ripped to the same degree.

PC is ultimately about who is in power (and, I make no excuses for many in the Christian world who have sought this power themselves).

Dol-Fan Dupree
02-24-2008, 06:29 PM
I'd define PC as valuing feelings over truth. And trying to discuss the legitimacy of PCness is not the same as being a racist or a bigot or someone opposed to progress/change.

In the sense of where PC is used truth is relative to the person saying it and the person "feeling" it.

CharlestonPhan
02-25-2008, 10:59 AM
PC is a term used by people who want to insult people in anyway they want to. They want to say something that someone else finds harmful. It is a way to attack people for having feelings and emotionas about words. It is a way to get back on the black people for not allowing them to be called *******.

The people who are against being "PC" are also the type of people who like to force their will and beliefs on others. Telling them that their hatred shouldn't hurt them because they know what is best for them. With colorful thoughtful language such as, "If I call you a ****** and you get upset by it, you are just giving your power away you stupid ******".

Also they seem to have a problem with the idea of change. Like the want some rulebook out of life and for it to stay the same for thousands of years. The idea of that is laughable of course. Life is change. Constant change.

i mean no disrespect by this DD, but i have to point out that for someone in favor of enforcing the ever changing and unwritten standards of Political Correctness on people, your post is anything but PC. it is full of generalizations and stereotypes about people you disagree with.

which was my point in a nutshell; it has been my experience that those who try to force PC on others are really just seeking to enforce a double standard on those they do not agree with, because they cannot win whatever debate they are having any other way.

so they make thinly veiled accusations that the other party is a racist, sexist, or homophobe, whether they know anything about that person or not. and they ignore the irony of passing judgement and making generalizations about other people they know little to nothing about.

usually the other party then shuts up, because in our PC society, being accused of being a racist, sexist, or homophobe are the only sins left that one can be judged on.

i choose not to play the game.

Dol-Fan Dupree
02-25-2008, 04:37 PM
i mean no disrespect by this DD, but i have to point out that for someone in favor of enforcing the ever changing and unwritten standards of Political Correctness on people, your post is anything but PC. it is full of generalizations and stereotypes about people you disagree with.

which was my point in a nutshell; it has been my experience that those who try to force PC on others are really just seeking to enforce a double standard on those they do not agree with, because they cannot win whatever debate they are having any other way.

so they make thinly veiled accusations that the other party is a racist, sexist, or homophobe, whether they know anything about that person or not. and they ignore the irony of passing judgement and making generalizations about other people they know little to nothing about.

usually the other party then shuts up, because in our PC society, being accused of being a racist, sexist, or homophobe are the only sins left that one can be judged on.

i choose not to play the game.

Actually I am not for enforcing anything. In fact PC is something that is impossible to actually enforce.

Of course it is full of generalizations and stereotypes.

Thundercracker
03-11-2008, 12:21 AM
Because religion is religion, but Christianity is a reality.
There is plenty of evidence to back it up, it is just that non-believers choose not to see it.

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious. Hilarious either way!