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View Full Version : Derek Anderson to Fins? 5 picks in 3 rounds?



FINSBeck9
02-09-2008, 11:52 PM
Well first off I read this article about how the fins could make a play for Derek Anderson but it would cost us our 1st and 3rd round picks this year, which to me is just not worth it. I know this has been talked about before but the thing that caught my eye was that it says that we have 3 2nd round picks?? Did I miss something?

http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/AlsHotNwsRms.html


02/09...Al's Draft Scoop - The Dolphins are in position to make a play for Anderson - Keep an eye on how the contract talks between the Cleveland Browns and Derek Anderson progress over the next couple of weeks. The Browns have until February 28th to place the highest tender on Anderson, unless the two parties can agree on a contract before then. It's very unlikely that the Browns will place their franchise tag on Anderson at the rate of 12 million for the 2008 season. The situation bears watching because the Miami Dolphins who have previously been reported to have some interest in Anderson, are in position to make a play for the former Oregon State Beaver during the free-agency period because they own five picks in the first three rounds of the Draft. If the Dolphins were to sign Anderson to an offer sheet that the Browns felt was too rich for their taste, the Browns would receive the Dolphins first and third round picks in the upcoming Draft, the first round pick being the first overall pick in the Draft. Bill Parcells has already stated that he's not very comfortable with the amount of guaranteed money that the first overall pick in the draft commands, because it's an unproven player getting paid a boat-load of money. Parcells would likely be relieved if the Dolphins were able to sign a franchise type quarterback like Anderson for considerably less than what they would have to pay the first overall pick in the draft. The Dolphins would have to surrender their first and third round picks this year, but would still have three second round picks in the Draft to fill other needs on the team. Although it's unlikely that the Browns wouldn't match any offer sheet presented to Anderson, anything can happen once a player is allowed to test the market, even if he's a restricted free agent. The Seattle Seahawks learned the hard way when they tendered OG Steve Hutchinson, only to see him depart to the Minnesota Vikings because of a poison pill inserted into Hutchinson's contract offer. The Seahawks still regret letting Hutchinson slip away to this day.



The Tampa Bay Bucs think they have a shot at convincing Jake Plummer to come out of retirement and play for them in the 2008 season according to Chris Mortenson of ESPN.

Silverphin
02-09-2008, 11:55 PM
Well first off I read this article about how the fins could make a play for Derek Anderson but it would cost us our 1st and 3rd round picks this year, which to me is just not worth it. I know this has been talked about before but the thing that caught my eye was that it says that we have 3 2nd round picks?? Did I miss something?

http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/AlsHotNwsRms.html


02/09...Al's Draft Scoop - The Dolphins are in position to make a play for Anderson - Keep an eye on how the contract talks between the Cleveland Browns and Derek Anderson progress over the next couple of weeks. The Browns have until February 28th to place the highest tender on Anderson, unless the two parties can agree on a contract before then. It's very unlikely that the Browns will place their franchise tag on Anderson at the rate of 12 million for the 2008 season. The situation bears watching because the Miami Dolphins who have previously been reported to have some interest in Anderson, are in position to make a play for the former Oregon State Beaver during the free-agency period because they own five picks in the first three rounds of the Draft. If the Dolphins were to sign Anderson to an offer sheet that the Browns felt was too rich for their taste, the Browns would receive the Dolphins first and third round picks in the upcoming Draft, the first round pick being the first overall pick in the Draft. Bill Parcells has already stated that he's not very comfortable with the amount of guaranteed money that the first overall pick in the draft commands, because it's an unproven player getting paid a boat-load of money. Parcells would likely be relieved if the Dolphins were able to sign a franchise type quarterback like Anderson for considerably less than what they would have to pay the first overall pick in the draft. The Dolphins would have to surrender their first and third round picks this year, but would still have three second round picks in the Draft to fill other needs on the team. Although it's unlikely that the Browns wouldn't match any offer sheet presented to Anderson, anything can happen once a player is allowed to test the market, even if he's a restricted free agent. The Seattle Seahawks learned the hard way when they tendered OG Steve Hutchinson, only to see him depart to the Minnesota Vikings because of a poison pill inserted into Hutchinson's contract offer. The Seahawks still regret letting Hutchinson slip away to this day.




The Tampa Bay Bucs think they have a shot at convincing Jake Plummer to come out of retirement and play for them in the 2008 season according to Chris Mortenson of ESPN.


First of all, you're not the only one who thinks giving up the first overall pick and the first pick of the second day is ludicrous.

Second of all, at the moment, we only have two second rounders.

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 12:00 AM
the draft is in April.... we not even see the combine yet..... there is NO WAY, we gonna give up our first pick soon. i'd be shocked if something happens to it until draft

SR 7
02-10-2008, 12:01 AM
uh no stupid move. hes a 1 hit wonder as of this moment so why do that? 1 year proves ntn.

Bonedoc7777
02-10-2008, 12:03 AM
that is too much for DA, maybe a second only

Chi-Town FinFan
02-10-2008, 12:05 AM
I would be willing to swap 1st rounders and that's about it...

Silverphin
02-10-2008, 12:07 AM
I would be willing to swap 1st rounders and that's about it...

They don't have a first rounder.

FINSBeck9
02-10-2008, 12:08 AM
they don't have a 1st, they traded it to the cowboys. my big questions regarding this article was that it was stating that we had 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds and 3 picks of those in the 2nd. The confused me.

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 12:09 AM
where was the article from??? is it even a reliable source.... always gotta check, u never know whats out there

Silverphin
02-10-2008, 12:12 AM
they don't have a 1st, they traded it to the cowboys. my big questions regarding this article was that it was stating that we had 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds and 3 picks of those in the 2nd. The confused me.

It's a bad source, my friend. Here's our picks:

Round 1, Pick 1

Round 2, Pick 1

Round 2, Pick 27

Round 3, Pick 1

Round 4, Pick 1

Round 6, Pick 1

Round 7, Pick 1

Chi-Town FinFan
02-10-2008, 12:16 AM
They don't have a first rounder.


Oh yeah, that's right... well, there goes that plan then!!

TotoreMexico
02-10-2008, 12:18 AM
where was the article from??? is it even a reliable source.... always gotta check, u never know whats out there

How can it be reliable when it says we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds?:err:

dgb11112
02-10-2008, 12:21 AM
Didn't we receive a second rounder for welker as well as chambers?

Breed
02-10-2008, 12:22 AM
uh no stupid move. hes a 1 hit wonder as of this moment so why do that? 1 year proves ntn.

Could that be because he's only started 1 year? It's not like he's 30 years old, he's actually 2 years younger than our "young" QB of the future. I don't think he's come close to reaching his ceiling.

Phinfan31
02-10-2008, 12:29 AM
Um wtf...this is by far the worst idea I have ever heard on finheaven.com - i didnt even bother reading the article after i read the sum up....is Drew Brees even worth a #1 overall and the #65th or wherever our first 3rd rounder is?? Negative. Is Carson Palmer? Negative. Jake Delhomme? Negative. Is Peyton Manning/Tom Brady? Yes. So unless you think hes the next 1 of those guys, LOL then wtf is anyone thinking who even gives this a second thought.

Chi-Town FinFan
02-10-2008, 12:33 AM
Didn't we receive a second rounder for welker as well as chambers?


Samson Satele (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8314)

JamesBW43
02-10-2008, 12:35 AM
Didn't we receive a second rounder for welker as well as chambers?

The 2nd we got for Welker was last year, which we used to get Satele.

WelcomeBack
02-10-2008, 12:36 AM
Didn't we receive a second rounder for welker as well as chambers?

The 2nd for Welker was last year's.

TotoreMexico
02-10-2008, 12:37 AM
Didn't we receive a second rounder for welker as well as chambers?

We got a 2nd for welker and drafted Satele last year

And we got a 2nd for Chambers this year

JBinSD
02-10-2008, 12:42 AM
Um wtf...this is by far the worst idea I have ever heard on finheaven.com - i didnt even bother reading the article after i read the sum up....is Drew Brees even worth a #1 overall and the #65th or wherever our first 3rd rounder is?? Negative. Is Carson Palmer? Negative. Jake Delhomme? Negative. Is Peyton Manning/Tom Brady? Yes. So unless you think hes the next 1 of those guys, LOL then wtf is anyone thinking who even gives this a second thought.


WHOAH. They wouldn't take that for Brees -- so don't worry. You wouldn't trade our picks for a TOP 5 Franchise QB?

Rating 89.4, 4400 Yards
Rating 96.2, 4400 Yards
Rating 89.2, 3500 Yards
Rating 104.8, 3100 Yards

Unfortunately Nick Saban didn't sign him because he thought he had arm problems. I would say his arm is doing okay.

You seem to think #1 Overall means some sort of blessing, but it can be a trap. Its awesome, and we could end up with a gem. But if we really could trade our #1 and #65 for Carson Palmer or Drew Brees -- Parcells would pull the trigger because he would know what he was getting.

Chi-Town FinFan
02-10-2008, 12:51 AM
they don't have a 1st, they traded it to the cowboys. my big questions regarding this article was that it was stating that we had 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds and 3 picks of those in the 2nd. The confused me.

I just thought about this, and you know what...we kind of do have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds ( at least in any other given year)

32 teams x 3 rounds= 96 picks.

Because the Patsies forfeited a pick for being cheats, the 96th pick is actually the 1st pick of the 4th round, instead of the last pick of the 3rd round...

If you use that logic we have first 5 picks in the first in any other years, would be in the first 3 rounds

gofins
02-10-2008, 01:20 AM
I say we give a 2nd for A.J. Feeley.

houtz
02-10-2008, 01:57 AM
Give them pick #32 and that's our final offer.

#1dolphinsfan
02-10-2008, 02:42 AM
Derek Anderson is way overrated no thanks

DefensiveEnd76
02-10-2008, 02:49 AM
You never ...ever ...never trade a top pick for a guy who has had 1 good season!!!! A guy has to prove himself for at least 2 seasons before you do that.

maralieus
02-10-2008, 05:09 AM
The Tampa Bay Bucs think they have a shot at convincing Jake Plummer to come out of retirement and play for them in the 2008 season according to Chris Mortenson of ESPN.


WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! Stop the presses!!! Am I the only one that caught this little gem? Is this some kind of sick twisted joke? They cant be serious!!! Who would really want to see him COME OUT OF retirement.

maralieus
02-10-2008, 05:15 AM
I like Anderson. I like the way he plays but too much for him. I really would think Beck would have just as good of a shot with us as him. Problem with DA is he has yet to prove that HE is the reason the Browns have been doing well on offense. We all remember all the Randy Moss making Daunte Culpepper good arguments. Lets not forget those now. Braylon Edwards is a damn good Wideout (top 3 I believe) and without him and Winslow I dont think DA would do much.

amspeed13
02-10-2008, 08:36 AM
You never ...ever ...never trade a top pick for a guy who has had 1 good season!!!! A guy has to prove himself for at least 2 seasons before you do that.

So we use our top pick and top dollar on a player that has no proven NFL seasons? I agree that is too much for Anderson and I think we should give Beck his shot, but we should get out of that top pick and get whatever we can for it.

Duriel
02-10-2008, 09:07 AM
It's a bad source, my friend. Here's our picks:

Round 1, Pick 1

Round 2, Pick 1

Round 2, Pick 27

Round 3, Pick 1

Round 4, Pick 1

Round 6, Pick 1

Round 7, Pick 1

The Chargers pick is the 26th in the second round.

cnc66
02-10-2008, 09:24 AM
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! Stop the presses!!! Am I the only one that caught this little gem? Is this some kind of sick twisted joke? They cant be serious!!! Who would really want to see him COME OUT OF retirement.

me.. he's never beaten us at home.. :winkwink:

Breed
02-10-2008, 09:47 AM
Derek Anderson is way overrated no thanks

I don't think anyone is advocating giving the 1st overall selection for DA, I'm a big DA fan and the most I'd be willing to give up would be the 32nd overall pick. Why do you feel DA is overrated?

Breed
02-10-2008, 09:51 AM
I like Anderson. I like the way he plays but too much for him. I really would think Beck would have just as good of a shot with us as him. Problem with DA is he has yet to prove that HE is the reason the Browns have been doing well on offense. We all remember all the Randy Moss making Daunte Culpepper good arguments. Lets not forget those now. Braylon Edwards is a damn good Wideout (top 3 I believe) and without him and Winslow I dont think DA would do much.

Braylon Edwards may be one of the best receivers in the game today, but Randy Moss is one of the top 2 wide receivers of all time. It's no coincidence that Moss was a large part of the 2 best regular season scoring offenses of all time.

3rdandinches
02-10-2008, 10:04 AM
Why would they trade him if he's soooooooo great, and don't give me because they drafted B.Quinn he's unproven and if given the chance to sit another year he could be as valueable as D.A this year. Again I'm asking if he's so good why trade him, B.Quinn was a late draft pick with a reasonable incentive base contract so it doesn't hurt them to keep both.

DolfanISS
02-10-2008, 10:05 AM
Derek Anderson was defined in one game this year. You beat Cincinati, who have a porous defense, and the Browns, the more talented team, are in the plaoffs. He failed, not a good sign for his big game pressure situations. Getting Anderson for no draft picks or a late one wouldn't be bad but I hope the Dolphins have learned from the past and don't give up anything significant for him. Could be an Elvis Grbac to Baltimore type move if you ask me.

cnc66
02-10-2008, 10:15 AM
Derek Anderson was defined in one game this year. You beat Cincinati, who have a porous defense, and the Browns, the more talented team, are in the plaoffs. He failed, not a good sign for his big game pressure situations. Getting Anderson for no draft picks or a late one wouldn't be bad but I hope the Dolphins have learned from the past and don't give up anything significant for him. Could be an Elvis Grbac to Baltimore type move if you ask me.

good post.

Breed
02-10-2008, 10:30 AM
Why would they trade him if he's soooooooo great, and don't give me because they drafted B.Quinn he's unproven and if given the chance to sit another year he could be as valueable as D.A this year. Again I'm asking if he's so good why trade him, B.Quinn was a late draft pick with a reasonable incentive base contract so it doesn't hurt them to keep both.

You couldn't be more wrong, the Browns gave up their 2007 2nd round pick (36th overall) in addition to their 2008 1st rounder just to get Quinn. That's a huge investment.

How would it look to the Browns fan base if the Browns front office turned around and traded Quinn for a 1st round pick? The Browns are in a tough situation here, they could trade Quinn and look foolish doing so considering what they gave up to get him, they could trade Anderson and get a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick to fill a need, or they could keep both. If they keep both and Anderson starts another year, regardless if he does well or not, Quinn's value drops significantly. Nobody is going to trade a 1st and a high 2nd round pick for a 1st round QB that has sat on the bench for 2 years. The best they could hope for in that situation, is to get a 1st round pick back.

Breed
02-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Derek Anderson was defined in one game this year. You beat Cincinati, who have a porous defense, and the Browns, the more talented team, are in the plaoffs. He failed, not a good sign for his big game pressure situations.

So one game defines his career? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've read, he's 24 years old for goodness sakes. Anyways, his value is moslty in his projectability, rather than his performance. In any case, his performance certainly didn't hurt him if you look at his entire season of work.


Getting Anderson for no draft picks or a late one wouldn't be bad but I hope the Dolphins have learned from the past and don't give up anything significant for him. Could be an Elvis Grbac to Baltimore type move if you ask me.

Terrible comparison, Grbac was 31 when he went to Baltimore, he also didn't have the arm that Anderson does. Anderson won't turn 25 unil June of this year.

stickman
02-10-2008, 10:36 AM
I like Anderson but not for a first rounder. As far as him being a one year wonder....maybe but probably not.

Breed
02-10-2008, 10:39 AM
I like Anderson but not for a first rounder. As far as him being a one year wonder....maybe but probably not.

Usually the term "one year wonder" is reserved for those 28 years old or over and have already been in the NFL a good 5-10 years. How anybody can use that term on a 24 year old QB is beyond me.

Pompy
02-10-2008, 10:48 AM
Does ONE YEAR WONDER sound familiar...?

alen1
02-10-2008, 10:57 AM
I don't think anyone is advocating giving the 1st overall selection for DA, I'm a big DA fan and the most I'd be willing to give up would be the 32nd overall pick. Why do you feel DA is overrated?

I'm not gonna lie. I was all for trading for DA. I wanted him bad last month and was hyped about him untill I looked at the big picture. He had weapons. He is overrated as others stated because he has a very very good O line, he has a very good tight end ( reppin the U!), he has a very good receiver in Braylon. You saw in that blizzard-like game, he would just lob the ball at its highest point and Braylon comes down with it everytime because hes around 6'4/6'5 and he has a very good vertical. I dont think DA could succeed here because of the lack of receivers and protection. Now dont get me wrong about the Phins protection, we are not that bad at pass protection but we are what we are.

Breed
02-10-2008, 11:01 AM
Does ONE YEAR WONDER sound familiar...?

That couldn't possibly be because he's only started one year, could it?

Breed
02-10-2008, 11:09 AM
I'm not gonna lie. I was all for trading for DA. I wanted him bad last month and was hyped about him untill I looked at the big picture. He had weapons. He is overrated as others stated because he has a very very good O line, he has a very good tight end ( reppin the U!), he has a very good receiver in Braylon. You saw in that blizzard-like game, he would just lob the ball at its highest point and Braylon comes down with it everytime because hes around 6'4/6'5 and he has a very good vertical. I dont think DA could succeed here because of the lack of receivers and protection. Now dont get me wrong about the Phins protection, we are not that bad at pass protection but we are what we are.

So you're knocking his success, basically saying that any QB could do what he did with those weapons. You're also assuming he's as good as he's going to get, which is a huge assumption considering he's only 24 years old.

Don't judge him on what he's done, judge him by what you think he's capable of doing in time. I see a QB that hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling, I see a 6'6 QB with good athleticism, good pocket awareness, and a cannon for an arm with good accuracy. I also see a QB that would rather trow the ball away than risk taking a sack. I see a QB that is on the verge of a breakout season, whether it be in '08 or '09.

KnifeOfTheDead
02-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Adam Schefler said that the Browns will most likely test him the FA. if that's the case, i think we should grab him, just for a couple years, and see if he can still throw. unless we get Ocho, it won't work amazingly, because he won't have Braylon Edwards, obviously. but, if trent green is looking good, i don't think we should pick him up. trent had been in the NFL longer, and hasn't had any SUPER awesome WRs. I think he is the perfect mentor for Beck.

oh well.

OneHondo
02-10-2008, 11:44 AM
Maybe, but not for the #1 pick and our 3rd. The #1 is too much but adding the third is almost like the prohibitive price we paid for RW. We would be mortgaging our future again.

Vendigo
02-10-2008, 11:50 AM
I see a QB that hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling, I see a 6'6 QB with good athleticism, good pocket awareness, and a cannon for an arm with good accuracy. I also see a QB that would rather trow the ball away than risk taking a sack


Let's get this guy then and forget about Anderson.

Sorry, just giving you a hard time. I wonder about your observations though. Anderson isn't particularly accurate (at one point I stopped counting how many times his receivers made a spectacular catch on a wide throw) and he doesn't respond well to pressure. In addition, he tends to stare down his targets and puts way too much pressure on those short and intermediate throws, resulting in dropped passes because he literally guns his receivers down.

Personally, I don't see a star QB there (and the fact that almost everyone in Cleveland doesn't either should be telling all by itself). I see a gunslinger in the likes of Gus Frerotte who will be a solid starter in the right offensive scheme (and behind a great offensive line which makes up for his flaws) and who would be a good pickup for, say, a 2nd round pick at most. Since you argued that we should talk about potential rather than production, I see way more talent in John Beck. Anderson has a lot of very fundamental flaws that will come back to haunt him. Potential to be solid? Yeah. Potential to be great? I don't think so.

phunwin
02-10-2008, 11:52 AM
There's no way on God's green earth that Parcells would trade the #1 overall pick to get Derek Anderson. None. I think we might well make a play for him, but we won't do it for the #1 overall pick.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Jason Taylor for Anderson swap, maybe with us throwing in a third or the #2B pick.

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 11:54 AM
noooooooooooooooooooo not jason taylor :(

Webb78OLman
02-10-2008, 12:07 PM
So you're knocking his success, basically saying that any QB could do what he did with those weapons. You're also assuming he's as good as he's going to get, which is a huge assumption considering he's only 24 years old.

Don't judge him on what he's done, judge him by what you think he's capable of doing in time. I see a QB that hasn't even come close to reaching his ceiling, I see a 6'6 QB with good athleticism, good pocket awareness, and a cannon for an arm with good accuracy. I also see a QB that would rather trow the ball away than risk taking a sack. I see a QB that is on the verge of a breakout season, whether it be in '08 or '09.

We are knocking his success because he doesn't look that good. Yes he had a monster season, but he tailed off towards the end, and choked when a playoff trip was on the line. He's young yes, but he still needs to develop, and the Dolphins do not have the talent on offense to help him develop. We do not have the skill players (besides Brown and maybe Ginn) to work with him, and our offensive line is average. I'm sorry, I just don't think Derek Anderson would be a good fit for a rebuilding team. When your team is rebuilding you don't give up a 1st and 3rd round pick for a QB that might only be good because of his O-line and receivers. Now maybe if this were to happen 3 years down the road when we are on the verge of contention (and our 1st round pick wasn't the #1 overall) then this deal could make sense. For now we need to solidify the O-line, find some quality receivers via FA or draft, and figure out if Beck is the future (and that's just the offensive side of the ball).

dabeastdabone
02-10-2008, 12:10 PM
Funny how many experts on "experts" on here think Anderson is overrated. How many of those same "experts" think highly of Beck? Many I'm sure.

I know little of Anderson (and will admit it). But he does have an impressive season on a previously poor (and team that was so poor got this years initial stating QB traded after the first game) team. Being that I wouldn't mind seeing the fins make a play for him. Yea it sucks because you have to consider last years 2nd rounder burned as well BUT if we don't get a QB in here some time soon you might consider last years first round (a WR) burned, likewise, because we just have had no passing success over the last ten years and can we just expect that to change without addressing it straight up?

Also if your going to give up your first round pick do it to Cleveland because it's doubtful it will ever bite you in the *** (see dealings with the Pats for details).

Another thing is what does all this mean about Brady? Boy to me it looks like Cam screwed the pooch (again) there. If the Browns are willing to part with DA in any fashion they must feel real high on Brady...while we on the other end of the spectrum are considering Becks "Replacement". The nightmare just continues.

I say if BP might of already been thinking QB with the first then DA is a good option because it does cut down the risk factor considerable. Anderson is young and I see no problem there.

Silverphin
02-10-2008, 12:20 PM
Funny how many experts on "experts" on here think Anderson is overrated. How many of those same "experts" think highly of Beck? Many I'm sure.

I know little of Anderson (and will admit it). But he does have an impressive season on a previously poor (and team that was so poor got this years initial stating QB traded after the first game) team. Being that I wouldn't mind seeing the fins make a play for him. Yea it sucks because you have to consider last years 2nd rounder burned as well BUT if we don't get a QB in here some time soon you might consider last years first round (a WR) burned, likewise, because we just have had no passing success over the last ten years and can we just expect that to change without addressing it straight up?

Also if your going to give up your first round pick do it to Cleveland because it's doubtful it will ever bite you in the *** (see dealings with the Pats for details).

Another thing is what does all this mean about Brady? Boy to me it looks like Cam screwed the pooch (again) there. If the Browns are willing to part with DA in any fashion they must feel real high on Brady...while we on the other end of the spectrum are considering Becks "Replacement". The nightmare just continues.

I say if BP might of already been thinking QB with the first then DA is a good option because it does cut down the risk factor considerable. Anderson is young and I see no problem there.

I don't have anything against Derek Anderson. But I'd rather not trade for a quarterback that only has one good season under his belt. I'm not going to say Derek Anderson is a one hit wonder. But at the same time, I'm not going to give him the title of a great quarterback after one year.

#1dolphinsfan
02-10-2008, 12:28 PM
I don't think anyone is advocating giving the 1st overall selection for DA, I'm a big DA fan and the most I'd be willing to give up would be the 32nd overall pick. Why do you feel DA is overrated?
the reason i think that is because he has ALOT of talent on offense the only people he would really have here are Ronnie Brown and Ted Ginn, and the People he has in Clevand are Ewards, Winslow, lewis, Jurevicius, and a soon to be good WR Josh Cribbs

Vendigo
02-10-2008, 12:32 PM
I know little of Anderson (and will admit it). But he does have an impressive season on a previously poor (and team that was so poor got this years initial stating QB traded after the first game) team.


There's a flaw in your argument. Namely that Cleveland is a poor team no more. How much that has to do with Anderson is the big question. Considering that Anderson had a top 5 WR, a top 5 TE, a very solid running back and one of the best o-lines in the business, he only completed a very meager 56% of his passes and threw 19 interceptions. Said one NFL scout who was quoted in a Cleveland newspaper: "He had at least 20 more INTs dropped."

I think Anderson is your prototypical trap player - his stats look way more impressive than his actual play. I've seen quite a lot of Browns games this year and while I think Anderson can eventually become a solid QB in the right system, I just didn't see a franchise guy there.

Breed
02-10-2008, 02:10 PM
Let's get this guy then and forget about Anderson.

Sorry, just giving you a hard time. I wonder about your observations though. Anderson isn't particularly accurate (at one point I stopped counting how many times his receivers made a spectacular catch on a wide throw)

There isn't a QB in the NFL that isn't going to make a few wide throws, you're underestimating his accuracy, IMO.

Using my adjusted QB rating, here's how the '07 quarterbacks ranked. I went through the top 20 in QB rating and added Vince Young and the Dolphins quarterbacks.

Tom Brady: 110.3* (578 passing attempts)
David Garrard: 94.90* (325 passing attemtps)
Peyton Manning: 94.04 (515 passing attempts)
Tony Romo: 92.11 (520 passing attempts)
Ben Roethlisberger: 90.53* (404 passing attempts)
Brett Favre: 89.97 (535 passing attempts)
Jeff Garcia: 87.95 (327 passing attempts)
Drew Brees: 84.97 (652 passing attempts)
Carson Palmer: 82.85 (575 passing attempts)
Matt Hasselbeck: 82.33 (562 passing attempts)
Jay Cutler: 81.45 (467 passing attempts)
Derek Anderson: 80.67 (527 passing attempts)
Kurt Warner: 80.56
Sage Rosenfels: 79.59
Donovan McNabb: 79.04
Chad Pennington: 78.05
Matt Schaub: 78
Philip Rivers: 73.85
Trent Green: 73.75
Vince Young: 71.78
Jason Campbell: 69.19
Cleo Lemon: 67.02
John Beck: 42.85*

*=QB kneels are included

One way this formula can improve in it's accuracy is to take away on the QB kneels, this would probably help Favre and Manning (among) others a notch or two. I didn't feel like going through all the game logs though. Another area I wasn't sure about was the sacks, the quarterbacks that are sacked a lot are already penalized through the completion % (very small difference) and the YPA parts of the adjusted formula, I'm not sure if that's quite enough though. I thought about subtracting the sack total from the completions part of the formula in addition to adding it to the completion % (attempts) part of the adjusted formula. If each sack is given full value, than Roethlisberger's adjusted QB rating would've dropped to 82.4. I wasn't sure what value to place on each sack, so I left that out and made the formula and made it a bit more simplistic.

My adjusted formula takes into account the quarterbacks scrambling ability, awareness in the pocket, efficiencey and the ability to score. Like any rating system based on stats, my formula isn't without it's flaws, but it's a far more efficient way to judge a list of quarterbacks than the standard QB rating. Here are a couple of examples of how it works:

Vince Young: A scrambling QB, his mobility is probably his biggest asset. Young had 395 rushing yards/93 carries. I asked myself, what would be the best way to place a value on scrambling ability? If you combine his rushing yards with his passing yards and divide into the number of attempts, his YPA would actually go down, thus penalizing him for his ability to scramble. If you add his rushing attempts to the number of passing attempts that would increase the completion % part of the formula enough to offset the YPA part of the formula.

Completion %: 238 completions + 93 rushing attempts/382 passing attempts + 93 rushing attempts + 25 sacks

Note: Every sack counts as an imcompletion in the completion % part of the adjusted formula.

YPA: 2,546 passing yards + 395 rushing yards -157 sack yards/ 382 passing attempts + 93 rushing attempts

Note: This lowers the YPA part of the adjusted formula, but not anywhere near to the extent of a Peyton Manning (in terms of rushing yardage and attempts). The first 2 parts of the adjusted formula award the QB that is able to scramble and have a decent ypc, in addition to the QB that can avoid the sack.

TD %: 9 passing touchdowns + 3 rushing touchdowns/382 passing attempts + 93 rushing attempts + 25 sacks

INT % (turnover %): 17 interceptions + 3 fumbles lost/ 382 passing attempts + 93 rushing attempts + 25 sacks

In most cases, the adjusted QB rating is going to be atleast a couple of points lower than the standard QB rating. In Young's case, his standard QB rating is 71.1 and his adjusted QB rating is 71.8

In the case of Ben Roethlisberger, his QB rating took a pretty big hit in the adjusted QB rating formula, despite being a scrambling QB. Of course it doesn't help when you're sacked once every 9.6 times you drop back to pass....

Completion %: 264 completions + 35 rushing attempts/404 passing attempts + 35 rushing attempts + 47 sacks

YPA: 3,154 passing yards + 204 rusing yards -347 sack yards/404 passing attempts + 35 rushing attempts + 47 sacks

TD %: 32 passing touchdowns + 2 rushing touchdowns/404 passing attempts + 35 rushing attempts + 47 sacks

INT % (turnover %): 11 interceptions + 3 fumbles lost/404 passing attempts + 35 rushing attempts + 35 rushing attempts + 47 sacks

Original QB rating: 104.1
Adjusted QB rating: 90.48

I would also like to point out that Roethlisberger, Cutler and Andrerson are the only quarterbacks that are in the top 20 going by adjusted qb rating, that are under 27 years old.

Derek Anderson is 12th in adjusted QB rating, of the 11 players that are ahead of him in this category, 3 had fewer than 500 snaps in '07. Derek Anderson had a total of 573 snaps.

David Garrard: 395 snaps
Ben Roethlisberger: 486 snaps
Jeff Garcia: 381 snaps

Comparing Anderson to other quarterbacks his age, he definitely had one of the better years in '07 for a QB 26 years old or younger.

Roethlisberger: 90.48 (turned 25 in March)
Cutler: 81.45 (turned 24 in April)
Anderson: 80.67 (turned 24 in June)
Schaub: 78 (turned 26 in June)
Rivers: 73.85 (turned 26 in Dec.)
Young: 71.78 (turned 24 in May)
Campbell: 69.19 (turned 26 in Dec.)

Trading our 2nd round pick (#32) and our 3rd round pick is a bit excessive, but I wouldn't mind swapping the 32nd overall pick for Derek Anderson.

Derek Anderson has better accuracy than what his completion % indicates, I've mentioned the sacks already, he has very good awareness in the pocket and would prefer to throw the ball away than take the sack. So his completion % is naturally going to be lower in comparison to the rest of the league because of that, but then there's also the amount of times he spiked the ball, which going by the game logs I've seen, he was near the top of the league in that category. If you go by the original QB rating formula, he would've been much better off just taking the sack, instead of throwing the ball away.


and he doesn't respond well to pressure.

What QB does?


In addition, he tends to stare down his targets and puts way too much pressure on those short and intermediate throws, resulting in dropped passes because he literally guns his receivers down.

Did you see Favre play when he was younger? In any case, everything you mentioned can be corrected.


Personally, I don't see a star QB there (and the fact that almost everyone in Cleveland doesn't either should be telling all by itself). I see a gunslinger in the likes of Gus Frerotte who will be a solid starter in the right offensive scheme (and behind a great offensive line which makes up for his flaws) and who would be a good pickup for, say, a 2nd round pick at most.

You're entitled to your opinion, I just disagree.


Since you argued that we should talk about potential rather than production, I see way more talent in John Beck. Anderson has a lot of very fundamental flaws that will come back to haunt him. Potential to be solid? Yeah. Potential to be great? I don't think so.

Would you still hold that opinion if Beck wasn't in a Dolphins uniform?

Breed
02-10-2008, 02:13 PM
We are knocking his success because he doesn't look that good. Yes he had a monster season, but he tailed off towards the end, and choked when a playoff trip was on the line. He's young yes, but he still needs to develop, and the Dolphins do not have the talent on offense to help him develop. We do not have the skill players (besides Brown and maybe Ginn) to work with him, and our offensive line is average. I'm sorry, I just don't think Derek Anderson would be a good fit for a rebuilding team. When your team is rebuilding you don't give up a 1st and 3rd round pick for a QB that might only be good because of his O-line and receivers. Now maybe if this were to happen 3 years down the road when we are on the verge of contention (and our 1st round pick wasn't the #1 overall) then this deal could make sense. For now we need to solidify the O-line, find some quality receivers via FA or draft, and figure out if Beck is the future (and that's just the offensive side of the ball).

Going by what you said, how would Beck be good for a rebuilding team?

Vendigo
02-10-2008, 03:29 PM
you're underestimating his accuracy


I don't think so. Anderson had only seven games where he completed more than 60% of his passes. Even taking into account some spikes and throw aways that's not a sign of good accuracy by any means. You can't seriously want to explain the 28th QB in the league completion percentage wise by spikes and throw aways?

But aside from the stats, I seriously wonder how many games you saw. I had to watch quite a lot (one of my buddies is a Browns fan) and I never had the impression that Anderson was an accurate QB. Not once. My buddy, by the way, used to call him the human shotgun. There were so many easy throws that Anderson either over- or underthrew that I don't even know where to begin. So maybe it would be easier to talk about some games in specific and about those throws.



What QB does?


Quite a couple. Both Manning and Brady respond very well to pressure, to name just two. Of course no QB likes pressure - but there are those being able to handle it well and those throwing, say, 19 interceptions. Most of those were a direct result of getting pressured and not throwing the ball away or trying to force a throw you can't force. Again, it would probably make sense to talk about some games/play specifically.



In any case, everything you mentioned can be corrected


Not responding well to pressure usually can't and inaccurate QBs usually don't become very accurate ones, but let's leave that discussion for another day. I'm not saying that Anderson won't improve over time. He certainly will. But if we're talking about potential, there's some serious flaws in this kid's play. If he was entering the draft, we'd be talking about a 3rd, maybe a 2nd round prospect who needed two years to correct these issues (always assuming that they can be corrected). And that's what I'd be willing to give up for Derek. If he was to be had for a 3rd or low 2nd round pick, hey, I'd be all for it. It's not as if I didn't like the kid after all. Quite the contrary: I'm very impressed by the way he improved in the last two years. But I still see him as a development QB with some limits talent-wise and we already have one of those.



Would you still hold that opinion if Beck wasn't in a Dolphins uniform?


I certainly would. I liked Beck at BYU and I like him now. He's accurate, he's got a quick release, he's got nice touch and he's got a nice arm. All in all, I would rank him higher than Anderson if both came out of college today. A lot of Beck's issues can be corrected far more easily than Anderson's. If we had Anderson instead of Beck, hey, I'd say let's keep and improve him. I just don't see a point in getting two development guys, especially if one of them is likely going to be very expensive.

dabeastdabone
02-10-2008, 10:19 PM
the reason i think that is because he has ALOT of talent on offense the only people he would really have here are Ronnie Brown and Ted Ginn, and the People he has in Clevand are Ewards, Winslow, lewis, Jurevicius, and a soon to be good WR Josh Cribbs

The team only got good after Anderson was playing though. Lewis of course was new to the team but he was pathetic his last year as a Raven so I'm not so sure he as much to do with it as you give him credit.

Ed Norton
02-10-2008, 10:41 PM
I like Anderson but if the Dolphins trade away draft picks they are still going to suck and then we will be on here next year complaining that he sucks. John Beck is a maybe at QB. The defense is a sucks for sure as is right now. If you put John Beck in at QB then MAYBE he will do well. If you put this same defense on the field next year FOR SURE they will suck. The Dolphins need to start building a team next year and the if chips don't fall right at QB next year turn over every rock for a QB in 09. They won the division with Fiedler and the won the AFC with Woodley. They can at least win some games next year with Beck, Lemon, and a cheaper FA. Which FA I have no clue but a warm body is already better than most Dolphin QBs over the last several years.

Webb78OLman
02-11-2008, 12:03 AM
Going by what you said, how would Beck be good for a rebuilding team?

Beck is better for a rebuilding team because we aren't not giving up draft picks for a guy that may or may not be better than Beck. Beck hasn't truly been given a chance yet and you guys are ready to right him off immediately because of the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome. Give him another year, and if he's still bad, well we'll probably have a Top 10 draft pick again, maybe Top 5, hopefully there'd be a QB for us in that situation.

Fintastic
02-11-2008, 04:21 AM
Alright, is Miami still looking at the trade with Dallas? If so it would be great if Miami got Marion Barber then traded away a decent pick to bring in both Chad Johnson and Derek Anderson.........Oh that would be so sweet. Who would'nt want those three players in addition to Ronnie Brown and Ted Ginn playing for us?

Xeticus
02-11-2008, 05:56 AM
How about this? We do the trade wth Dallas and get both their first rounders and and a second rounder and third We take DA and trade Cleveland #28 and the third rounder we got from Dallas. We'd get Derek Anderson and still have a first rounder and 2 second rounders. The hardest part is getting the good deal originally from Dallas. But we could do it and Tuna would look like a friggin' genius!

FINFAN15
02-11-2008, 02:55 PM
No Way am I giving up the first overall pick for a 1 year wonder.

Batman13
02-11-2008, 03:15 PM
I generally refer to this site as "The National Football Enquirer." It's an entertaining read, as they have daily rumor reports, but it is far from reliable.