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CJGoCanes
02-10-2008, 03:29 AM
Addressing the Dolphins #1 pick in the 2008 Draft, both fitting the current personnel and the pick's role:

A.) Chris Long- UVA: Long seems like a great pick (comes from a great pedigree, hard worker, relentless motor, team leader, etc.) but when you grade on the roles of a presumed 3-4 defense, he ranks somewhat lower. 3-4 DE do no have as great of a role as 4-3 DE and seem to be more concerned with filling their gaps and taking blocker off of the linebackers than penetrating the line and causing havoc on the QB. It is still a very important position, and he is a great 3-4 DE prospect (adding maybe 10 lb.), but not worth pick #1.

B.) Glenn Dorsey- LSU: I really, really like everything about Dorsey. He is a disruptive force, relentless, and the definition of a team player. He will put his body through anything to better his teammates. If the Dolphins choose to play in a 4-3 I would pick Dorsey #1 with no problem. But assuming they go the 3-4 route, he is not worth the #1 pick. I actually think he would be a much better 3-4 NT than most people but not so much so that he is worth the pick.

C.) Matt Ryan- BC: Ryan is definitely the #1 QB coming out in 2008 and would have been the #1 pick for the Dolphins last year, but I have not seen enough of last year's #2 Beck to fully judge the position. I know everyone says you take a franchise QB no matter what if you don't have one but I'm not convinced Beck isn't. Ryan will probably be a good QB, but I believe Beck will too. Therefore, I have to pass.

D.) Darren McFadden- Ark: McFadden is a special talent. He's big, he's fast, and he's multi-dimensional. If we're picking #2 in 2005, he would be a Dolphin over Brown. And seeing the impact Peterson had last year (given that I don't think DM is as good as a true RB as AP, but a better all-around threat) one would have to take a very long look at him with pick #1. But given that we have Brown and the rest of the stable, and the fact that it would be too much guarunteed money for a one-play-disaster-waiting-to-happen, I would pass with caution.

Given all the circumstances, the personnel and their roles, my #1 pick would be:

Jake Long- Mich: The prototypical LT prospect. He has great size (6'7 315), great speed (reportedly keeps up with the skill positions in conditioning), great production (a top 10 pick last year), great strength (supposed to contend with the bench press record this combine), and plays a position that would be worth the #1 pick. I like Vernon Carey a lot, but he seems a better RT than true LT. Long would give you an instant starter at LT, doesn't have many injury concerns, and would be worth the long-term money invested in the #1 pick. I know there are other very good LT prospects in '08, but Long is definitely a franchise LT. He could protect Beck's or whoever's blindsize for many, many years.

Now given all that, I do have a sleeper pick:
Vernon Gholston- OSU: Hear me out. He would be an ideal OLB candidate for Bill Parcells. He's big (6'4 265), he's extremely fast, and he's productive. But more important, I feel he would have a greater impact than Chris Long's 3-4 DE position, Glenn Dorsey at 3-4 NT, and I don't know if Ryan is that much better than Beck. He would be up there with McFadden in impact rating. I can really see Parcells falling in love with him and his abilities

RUDEbyallMEANS
02-10-2008, 07:35 AM
To me, the pick will be either Dorsey, Jake Long or Vernon Gholston. Dorsey and Gholston are VERY disruptive on defense and Jake Long would iron out the o-line problems for Miami for a LONG time with Long at LT, Satele at Center and Carey at RT.

swampfox
02-10-2008, 08:00 AM
I still think Jake Long will be a RT and you just dont take those at number one.

jimmyz27
02-10-2008, 08:20 AM
I really like your views and opinions but I do believe the Dolphins best deal would be to move down if possible to tell you the truth I rather have Calais Campbell as my DE, he is bigger and stronger than C.Long and will be a better fit for the 3-4 he reminds me of a Michael Strahan type DE. I do love Dorsey and I do agree if it was a 4-3 you have to select him no doubt, but since it will be a 3-4 defense regardless of what Sparano is saying of the personnel and system fitting them not the other way around the big picture is that they will be converting into a 3-4 that's what Parcels knows best and that's what he is going to build here. I do like Jake Long but he did get beat a few times in college but not a lot and nothing our coaches cann't help him with I'm sure, and I do think Carey will be a better RT in our team than he is a LT. But is parcels going to draft an OL with the number 1 pick overall I doubt it, you have to with a playmaker is not every year you draft #1 Overall Brown did look good alot better toward the middle of the season before he tore his acl but he was mediocre at the beginning of the year and the year before he was just average, he ran for 1000 yards a year ago so what I believe the new measure for a good runningback is no longer 1000 yars is 1200 yards, and he hasn't done that in the NFL. So right now you have to say Ronnie is an above average running back but not Good or Great but injured prone. And for all accounts Beck rating coming into the draft last year was an 85 Matt Ryan rates at a 95, to win in this league you have to start at QB I rather take the best QB on the draft and let the two QB's battle it out than passed on a possible franchise QB cause you think some rookie who did not had a scoring drive when it matter in a football game, but the drives he produce were during garbage 4th quater drives at the end of the season where the game had already being decided. What Matt Ryan was able to do against VT can not be disputed the guy has Moxy and can Win the tough game he had an average supporting cast in B.C and still was able to put himself as one of the finest college quaterbacks in last year college football season, as the combine unfolds I think we will know more about Matt Ryan and I think he will be the best pick for the Dolphins this season.

:up:

NorFlaFin
02-10-2008, 09:47 AM
paragraphs...

3rdandinches
02-10-2008, 10:53 AM
Really we're in so much need of talent I don't think we can go wrong.I'd like to see C.Long or S.Ellis or J.Long.No matter who we pick people on this site will cry we should have taken this guy or that guy 3 years from now when hindsight is 20/20.My ideal situation is to trade down and get more picks and then you could add V.Gholston in the picture as well, but thats out of our control you need two to tango.

BlueFin
02-10-2008, 11:22 AM
I don't think your opinion of Jake Long is universal.

I think he can definitely play right tackle in the NFL, but there is much question about his ability as a left tackle at the next level.

If he was a sure fire impact left tackle I would agree with you, but there is much doubt about that. He is not as good a prospect as Joe Thomas was last year.

Therefore, I cannot be in favor of his selection that high, to me it has to be Dorsey, Ellis, C long or Ryan.

I believe in the school of thought that says you keep drafting quarterbacks until you are sure you have a big time playmaker there.

With that said, if they do not have a very srong conviction on Matt Ryan, I would prefer we select one of the defensive lineman and take another QB with a later pick.

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 11:37 AM
Addressing the Dolphins #1 pick in the 2008 Draft, both fitting the current personnel and the pick's role:

A.) Chris Long- UVA: Long seems like a great pick (comes from a great pedigree, hard worker, relentless motor, team leader, etc.) but when you grade on the roles of a presumed 3-4 defense, he ranks somewhat lower. 3-4 DE do no have as great of a role as 4-3 DE and seem to be more concerned with filling their gaps and taking blocker off of the linebackers than penetrating the line and causing havoc on the QB. It is still a very important position, and he is a great 3-4 DE prospect (adding maybe 10 lb.), but not worth pick #1.

B.) Glenn Dorsey- LSU: I really, really like everything about Dorsey. He is a disruptive force, relentless, and the definition of a team player. He will put his body through anything to better his teammates. If the Dolphins choose to play in a 4-3 I would pick Dorsey #1 with no problem. But assuming they go the 3-4 route, he is not worth the #1 pick. I actually think he would be a much better 3-4 NT than most people but not so much so that he is worth the pick.

C.) Matt Ryan- BC: Ryan is definitely the #1 QB coming out in 2008 and would have been the #1 pick for the Dolphins last year, but I have not seen enough of last year's #2 Beck to fully judge the position. I know everyone says you take a franchise QB no matter what if you don't have one but I'm not convinced Beck isn't. Ryan will probably be a good QB, but I believe Beck will too. Therefore, I have to pass.

D.) Darren McFadden- Ark: McFadden is a special talent. He's big, he's fast, and he's multi-dimensional. If we're picking #2 in 2005, he would be a Dolphin over Brown. And seeing the impact Peterson had last year (given that I don't think DM is as good as a true RB as AP, but a better all-around threat) one would have to take a very long look at him with pick #1. But given that we have Brown and the rest of the stable, and the fact that it would be too much guarunteed money for a one-play-disaster-waiting-to-happen, I would pass with caution.

Given all the circumstances, the personnel and their roles, my #1 pick would be:

Jake Long- Mich: The prototypical LT prospect. He has great size (6'7 315), great speed (reportedly keeps up with the skill positions in conditioning), great production (a top 10 pick last year), great strength (supposed to contend with the bench press record this combine), and plays a position that would be worth the #1 pick. I like Vernon Carey a lot, but he seems a better RT than true LT. Long would give you an instant starter at LT, doesn't have many injury concerns, and would be worth the long-term money invested in the #1 pick. I know there are other very good LT prospects in '08, but Long is definitely a franchise LT. He could protect Beck's or whoever's blindsize for many, many years.

Now given all that, I do have a sleeper pick:
Vernon Gholston- OSU: Hear me out. He would be an ideal OLB candidate for Bill Parcells. He's big (6'4 265), he's extremely fast, and he's productive. But more important, I feel he would have a greater impact than Chris Long's 3-4 DE position, Glenn Dorsey at 3-4 NT, and I don't know if Ryan is that much better than Beck. He would be up there with McFadden in impact rating. I can really see Parcells falling in love with him and his abilities



i like what your wrote basically... but i disagree with Chris Long. he was brewed in a 3-4 scheme at Virginia, where he basically lead the defense to top 25. And within this scheme he has been tallored as a run stopping machine. This man does big things as well as all the little things not seen in stat books to get the job done. i know this may sound biased cause it's Al Groh, but here's a little thing he said of Chris:


Virginia coach Al Groh says there isn't a more complete defensive player in the country.



"Because of the nature of pass rushing, and because it's more visible and more wide open, it's like the home run of defensive linemen," Groh said. "Everybody sees the home runs. He hits a lot of home runs and is among the national leaders in doing that. But on the nuts-and-bolts work on the every-down running plays, he's equally spectacular and effective. He's made some marvelous plays on running plays that you just look at and say, 'Wow, not many guys can do that.' He's developed a complete game and understands all aspects of being a defensive football player."

RoninFin4
02-10-2008, 11:42 AM
Good post CJ. For me, our pick has to be one of the three: Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey or Vernon Gholston. If we stay at one, I think it's Long depending on the combine that Gholston has. If we can move back a few spots (by convincing people we're taking Matt Ryan - Todd McShay's helping us out now at ESPN) grab Gholston and land an extra 2nd rounder and some other picks...I think that's a bigger step toward rebuilding than any one player we'd take at #1.

CJGoCanes
02-10-2008, 12:19 PM
I like that everybody has different opinions on these players.

Besides Peterson last year, Joe Thomas was considered by many as the Offensive Rookie of the Year. If you were picking #1 last year, he would have been a great selection, a rookie Pro Bowler. Many people attribute most of Derek Anderson's sudden great play to a vastly improved OL. And that started with Thomas at LT. I feel Jake Long could have a similar impact with the Dolphins next year and he would make Beck better, running to the left better, etc.

I also feel like a 3-4 DE is important, just not as important as a franchise LT. I know Chris Long excelled in UVA's 3-4, but I think you could get similar production from a lean, athletic DT/DE (filling lanes and occupying blockers).

BlueFin
02-10-2008, 12:39 PM
I like that everybody has different opinions on these players.

Besides Peterson last year, Joe Thomas was considered by many as the Offensive Rookie of the Year. If you were picking #1 last year, he would have been a great selection, a rookie Pro Bowler. Many people attribute most of Derek Anderson's sudden great play to a vastly improved OL. And that started with Thomas at LT. I feel Jake Long could have a similar impact with the Dolphins next year and he would make Beck better, running to the left better, etc.

I also feel like a 3-4 DE is important, just not as important as a franchise LT. I know Chris Long excelled in UVA's 3-4, but I think you could get similar production from a lean, athletic DT/DE (filling lanes and occupying blockers).

Again, your opinion of Jake Long is not shared by many, there is legitmate doubt about his ability as a left tackle in the big leagues, that doubt didn't exist for Thomas or Ferguson when they came out, Long is not a natural knee bender and you have to wonder how he would do against the better pass rushers in this league?

#1dolphinsfan
02-10-2008, 12:45 PM
I would take Chris Long, and if not him Glenn Dorsey

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 12:50 PM
slowly the top players to draft are seperating in my head whom i would rather pick-up.... but it'll take a while to figure it all out. combine soon!!! free agency soon!!! these are some factors in that decision.

NorFlaFin
02-10-2008, 12:55 PM
Again, your opinion of Jake Long is not shared by many, there is legitmate doubt about his ability as a left tackle in the big leagues, that doubt didn't exist for Thomas or Ferguson when they came out, Long is not a natural knee bender and you have to wonder how he would do against the better pass rushers in this league?


Do you have a link regarding Jake Long's inability to play LT?

CJGoCanes
02-10-2008, 05:07 PM
Again, your opinion of Jake Long is not shared by many, there is legitmate doubt about his ability as a left tackle in the big leagues, that doubt didn't exist for Thomas or Ferguson when they came out, Long is not a natural knee bender and you have to wonder how he would do against the better pass rushers in this league?

I know not everyone is going to agree on a pick, but you can't say that there are not MANY people that view Long as a franchise LT. I'm pretty sure 90% of people view him as a LT, with the other 10% trying to find something wrong with his game and saying he would be a better RT.

Here is just one website's view:

"01/15/08 - Although Parcells rarely drafts a running back in the first round, the fact that he hired former Arkansas offensive coordinator David Lee to be Miami's quarterbacks coach could nudge him toward taking Razorbacks RB Darren McFadden, the Heisman runner-up. Parcells also has a connection to Virginia DE Chris Long, whose coach Al Groh is a longtime Parcells' disciple. But the feeling here is that Parcells will opt for the other Long, Jake, to shore up the offensive line and give Miami that franchise left tackle it has been looking for since Richmond Webb was protecting Dan Marino's blindside in the 1990s."

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=10082

EireTiger
02-10-2008, 10:47 PM
I don't see the attraction to Jake Long....Vernon Gholston abused Jake Lomg throughout the OSU - UM game this year, made him look slow and even got bull rushed a couple of times. Interestingly enough, in the National Title game, LSU's left tackle, Ciron Black, completely held Gholston in check throughout the game.

Jed
02-10-2008, 11:19 PM
I think it will be Dorsey or Long. They are the 2 best players available. I prefer Dorsey, I think he is a very rare talent at our position of greatest need. If we sign a FA DT I could see the regime taking C Long. If we don't sign one I don't see them leaving our biggest hole to a later pick.

MrEd
02-10-2008, 11:29 PM
Addressing the Dolphins #1 pick in the 2008 Draft, both fitting the current personnel and the pick's role:

A.) Chris Long- UVA: Long seems like a great pick (comes from a great pedigree, hard worker, relentless motor, team leader, etc.) but when you grade on the roles of a presumed 3-4 defense, he ranks somewhat lower. 3-4 DE do no have as great of a role as 4-3 DE and seem to be more concerned with filling their gaps and taking blocker off of the linebackers than penetrating the line and causing havoc on the QB. It is still a very important position, and he is a great 3-4 DE prospect (adding maybe 10 lb.), but not worth pick #1.

B.) Glenn Dorsey- LSU: I really, really like everything about Dorsey. He is a disruptive force, relentless, and the definition of a team player. He will put his body through anything to better his teammates. If the Dolphins choose to play in a 4-3 I would pick Dorsey #1 with no problem. But assuming they go the 3-4 route, he is not worth the #1 pick. I actually think he would be a much better 3-4 NT than most people but not so much so that he is worth the pick.

C.) Matt Ryan- BC: Ryan is definitely the #1 QB coming out in 2008 and would have been the #1 pick for the Dolphins last year, but I have not seen enough of last year's #2 Beck to fully judge the position. I know everyone says you take a franchise QB no matter what if you don't have one but I'm not convinced Beck isn't. Ryan will probably be a good QB, but I believe Beck will too. Therefore, I have to pass.

D.) Darren McFadden- Ark: McFadden is a special talent. He's big, he's fast, and he's multi-dimensional. If we're picking #2 in 2005, he would be a Dolphin over Brown. And seeing the impact Peterson had last year (given that I don't think DM is as good as a true RB as AP, but a better all-around threat) one would have to take a very long look at him with pick #1. But given that we have Brown and the rest of the stable, and the fact that it would be too much guarunteed money for a one-play-disaster-waiting-to-happen, I would pass with caution.

Given all the circumstances, the personnel and their roles, my #1 pick would be:

Jake Long- Mich: The prototypical LT prospect. He has great size (6'7 315), great speed (reportedly keeps up with the skill positions in conditioning), great production (a top 10 pick last year), great strength (supposed to contend with the bench press record this combine), and plays a position that would be worth the #1 pick. I like Vernon Carey a lot, but he seems a better RT than true LT. Long would give you an instant starter at LT, doesn't have many injury concerns, and would be worth the long-term money invested in the #1 pick. I know there are other very good LT prospects in '08, but Long is definitely a franchise LT. He could protect Beck's or whoever's blindsize for many, many years.

Now given all that, I do have a sleeper pick:
Vernon Gholston- OSU: Hear me out. He would be an ideal OLB candidate for Bill Parcells. He's big (6'4 265), he's extremely fast, and he's productive. But more important, I feel he would have a greater impact than Chris Long's 3-4 DE position, Glenn Dorsey at 3-4 NT, and I don't know if Ryan is that much better than Beck. He would be up there with McFadden in impact rating. I can really see Parcells falling in love with him and his abilities

I'm sorry, but I've seen enough of Beck to not like him.

CJGoCanes
02-12-2008, 09:36 PM
This has to be the most informative and detailed I could find on both the positive and negative aspects of Jake Long's game. Positives are in bold and negatives are in italics:


"He may be the number one player in this draft class, but what do the scouts see when they look at Jake Long?

Name: Jake Long
School: Michigan
Jersey #: 77
Height: 6'7
Weight: 310
40 time: 5.1
Best Fit Position/Role: Left Tackle
Ideal Scheme/Role: Power run
Teams Interested: St. Louis Rams, Miami Dolphins, Pittsburgh Steelers, San Francisco 49ers, Houston Texans, Dallas Cowboys
General Traits
Athletic Ability: Is a good overall athlete with above average ability. Can play heavy-footed at times. Slow feet. Poor lateral quickness, but is a fast runner in a straight line.
Character/Leadership Ability: Is a very vocal leader and team captain. Takes his role and responsibilities very seriously. Is a favorite in the locker room.
Competitive Nature/Work Ethic: A hard worker in the weight room and class room. Long is a competitive player that is more like a fighter in that he hates to lose. Will work harder than most players with his natural talent.
Football Intelligence: A smart player that has seen every defense, twist, stunt and blitz in his 4 years as a starter. Not much will surprise him. Dedicated to the film room and absorbs information.
Size: Is a mammoth player. His size is intimidating and imposing to defenders. Is thick all the way through with good muscle tone and bubble. A very strong lower body. Long arms and huge hands.
Toughness/Durability: Is a very tough player that enjoys contact and plays with a mean streak. At times he seems to search out defenders to hit. Is a durable player that has only missed time due to a serious injury in 2005, which he came back from strong.

Position Specific Traits
Movement/Space: Does not move well laterally. Has average lateral quicks. Does not recover well to the inside, but moves well to the outside and can adjust to pick up the blitz and outside rush. Moves well to the 2nd level and looks for people to hit at every tier.
Pass Blocking: Can get heavy feet and hands. Plays slow at times. Can be beaten with a good inside counter move. Has a strong punch and replaces his feet well. Might be better suited for the right side in pass protection. Can play top heavy with too much lean. Needs to play lighter on his feet and with more left-right balance.
Quickness: Average lateral quickness with good straight-line speed. Has no short quicks. Is a long strider. An aggressive blocker that gets to the second level well, but not quickly. Adjusts best to the outside, where he can run off a blitzer or pass rusher.
Run Blocking: A dominating run blocker that shows great drive blocking skills. Has good bend in his arms and legs, forming a "V" in his arms when locking up and driving with his legs and keeping his feet churning. Powers from his quads through his body and will look to pancake if necessary. Gets to the 2nd level well and will lead block in space. Is agile enough to get out in space and find second and third blocks.
Strength: Is exceptionally strong and uses this well on the field. A naturally strong person that has added to this in the weight room. Has great football strength and does not waste his size or power.
Technique: Footwork can be lazy, but is technically sound. Replaces his feet well and has a solid kick back and hinge step. Can get over his feet at times and will lunge at a player, most famously Ohio State DE Vernon Gholston. Can be ran outside and then in with success. Needs to stay more balanced and keep a better feel for his defender. Keeps his head up when run blocking and drives well through his block. Great lower body technique, fundamentally strong.
General Comments: Long is generally considered a top 5 senior for the 2008 NFL Draft and a cornerstone left tackle. Much like Levi Brown in the '07 class, Long could be moved to the right side with ease for a number of reasons. He is a dominating run blocker that will immediately add to any team's running game. Could have an immediate impact for the franchise that selects him.

Injury Concerns: Lower left leg injury in 2005. Required surgery.

Could be as good as: Jonathan Ogden
Worst Case: Marcus McNeill

Where he'll probably go: Top 3
Were he should go: Top 3

Completed By: Matt Miller
Last Updated: 12/11/2007"

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/storyonly/2007/12/12/211124/62

TexanPhinatic
02-12-2008, 11:41 PM
Nice one CJ. I see Jake as a rich mans Levi Brown-a guy who many thought would only be a RT, that would drop out of the top 10, who would be surpassed by Toledo (Clady this year) etc. Granted his rookie year wasnt spectacular, but I think Long has more natural talent.

I dont think hes as good a pass blocker as Joe Thomas was, I think he is a better run blocker. I think he is solid against the pass. Gholston was his ONLY bad game mind. I like how people try to define him by his performance against 1 player in 1 game. It happens...
I dont know if I like him at #1 overall, but if we drop below the #3 spot he will have to be considered.
Long, Satele, Carey, Hadnot if resigned and maybe Mormino? Young, talented, good stuff.