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View Full Version : Matt Ryan- Numbers speak for themselves!!



mandal24
02-10-2008, 03:01 PM
For those of you who want Matt Ryan, with all do respect, ARE YOU GUYS NUTS?! He's a turnover machine.. Ya ya, he has the "prototypical NFL QB size" but that doesnt mean anything when you throw INTs consistently..

His best game of the season was against Bowling Green where he threw 4 TDs and 0 Ints... Very good numbers, but then again the supposedly #1 pickk in the NFL should be putting up those numbers against garbage, smaller schools...
In fact, in ONLY 2 games, he has thrown 0 INTs and those two games were against small, garbage schools- Bowling Green and University of Mass., a 1-AA school.
In 12 of his 14 games, he has thrown ATLEAST 1 INT. In half of his games (7), he has thrown ATLEAST 2 INTs.
A good threshold of where I believe a QB should have his completion percentage at or above is 60% and in 6 games, his completion percentage has dipped below that 60% threshold. Furthermore, in 4 games, his completion percentage has dropped BELOW 50% against FSU, VT, NCST, and in his BOWL GAME, against MSU.

I know, I know you Matt Ryan fans will argue that numbers aren't everything and I agree... to an EXTENT..but his numbers are not only mediocre, but actually pretty bad... Take out his games against BG and UMASS, and hes an average QB...He throws waaayyy too many INTs...He threw 14 INTs in his last 8 games... Yikes, you cant have that in the NFL during the final stretch of the season...This guy is NFL size, and thats about it

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 03:02 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.

raving
02-10-2008, 03:03 PM
Actually this works against us because this clown will not be a Dolphin so better numbers would make our pick more valuable for those fools who wish to burn a # 1 overall on the Ryan Leaf.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 03:09 PM
Im amazed. Dont you guys ever question your take on Ryan? I mean really. If I was convinced someone sucked but every professional talent evaluator said he was good I might just step back a bit and wonder if I scouted him right?

Captain Lou
02-10-2008, 03:09 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.


No he's the best NFL prospect that doesn't gaurantee he will be successful in the NFL. He may well end up being a good pro. The windows to complete passes in the NFL are alot smaller than they are in college. I know he didn't he the most talented bunch of receivers but it isn't going to be any easier in the NFL and in fact much harder. He has all the tools for sure. With Ryan he's more if a wait and see prospect far from a can't miss prospect.

Casas9425
02-10-2008, 03:11 PM
throw the numbers out they don't mean much. he had to take chances in order to win. BC was an average team that he carried to 11 wins. his leading reciever was his running back, his recieving corps stunk

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 03:11 PM
No he's the best NFL prospect that doesn't gaurantee he will be successful in the NFL. He may well end up being a good pro. The windows to complete passes in the NFL are alot smaller than they are in college. I know he didn't he the most talented bunch of receivers but it isn't going to be any easier in the NFL and in fact much harder. He has all the tools for sure. With Ryan he's more if a wait and see prospect far from a can't miss prospect.

Agreed. Thanks for a good post. I actually think he'll be one of the few QBs who may find it easier in the NFL, LOL. His receivers never had seperation. In the NFL, as weird as it sounds he'll have more room to complete his passes than in college although the speed will be alot quicker to do it. I think the speed is what he'll have to get used to more than the windows

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 03:12 PM
lets draft a Texas Tech QB, they always have great stats!!!!!

SpaceMountain16
02-10-2008, 03:13 PM
While there are some GOOD QB's coming out this year, i really don't see a guy with the potential of being a great one. Quite honestly i'd rather hold out on drafting a QB until later in the draft rather than investing a number one overall pick in one, especially since we used a high second rounder on a guy who played three games.

mandal24
02-10-2008, 03:14 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country

Really and u know this how? Bc some draft mocks have us takin him with the number 1 pick.. HUGE REACH..if u cant stick it in college level, chances are u wont make it in the NFL.. unless your tom brady or Kurt Warner to name a very FEW

PALMA
02-10-2008, 03:14 PM
Sad to say but John Beck's numbers in college were much better. Beck had a much better YPA average and more starts. Very successful Qb's taken in the first 2 rounds of the draft usually start all four years. Beck will be given every opportunity to start next year.

John Beck: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/103736

Matt Ryan: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/101947

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 03:15 PM
Really and u know this how? Bc some draft mocks have us takin him with the number 1 pick.. HUGE REACH..if u cant stick it in college level, chances are u wont make it in the NFL.. unless your tom brady or Kurt Warner to name a very FEW

Becasue GMs have come out in print and said it. Casserly, Heckert, etc. Ryan has stuck it in college whatever that means. The pros know it, the amateurs look at stats

Casas9425
02-10-2008, 03:16 PM
john beck played in the spread offense which may have over inflated his stats

SpaceMountain16
02-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Sad to say but John Beck's numbers in college were much better. Beck had a much better YPA average, however both Qb's had about the same amount of starts. Very successful Qb's taken in the first 2 rounds of the draft usually start all four years. Beck will be given every opportunity to start next year.

John Beck: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/103736

Matt Ryan: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/101947

But he played at BYU as opposed to playing at BC. Not that great QB's cant come from small conference schools, but Ryan did have to face teams like Virginia Tech, Miami, Florida State some of the traditionally better programs with traditionally better defenses being in the ACC.

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Really and u know this how? Bc some draft mocks have us takin him with the number 1 pick.. HUGE REACH..if u cant stick it in college level, chances are u wont make it in the NFL.. unless your tom brady or Kurt Warner to name a very FEW

i no that Rian is gud, beecuz hee played inn a pro-stile offents and hee is smart and a leeder

mandal24
02-10-2008, 03:18 PM
ha so let them draft this guy... hes garbaggge... and texas tech qbs are system qbs we all know that... this guy played in a pro style offense and couldnt cut it... and for those who say he didnt have good recievers..well sometimes, especially in college, the qb will make his recievers better .. and he couldnt do it

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 03:20 PM
ha so let them draft this guy... hes garbaggge... and texas tech qbs are system qbs we all know that... this guy played in a pro style offense and couldnt cut it... and for those who say he didnt have good recievers..well sometimes, especially in college, the qb will make his recievers better .. and he couldnt do it

are you Brian Brohm?

shouldn't you be preparing for the combine?

mandal24
02-10-2008, 03:22 PM
i no that Rian is gud, beecuz hee played inn a pro-stile offents and hee is smart and a leeder

spelling? and that is the dumbest post ive ever read... MANY MANY MANY qbs play in a pro style offense and cant cut it.. so because he plays in a pro style offense, hes automatically gonna make it, even though hes a turnover machine

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 03:22 PM
are you Brian Brohm?

shouldn't you be preparing for the combine?:lol::lol:

SpaceMountain16
02-10-2008, 03:25 PM
spelling? and that is the dumbest post ive ever read... MANY MANY MANY qbs play in a pro style offense and cant cut it.. so because he plays in a pro style offense, hes automatically gonna make it, even though hes a turnover machine

While i agree, you have to look at one major thing. Playing in a pro-style offense better readies a QB to play in the NFL. I dont think you can say because a QB plays in a pro-style offense in college he's automatically guaranteed to be great in the pro's, but it's quite obvious that experience in running a pro-offense is a great tool for a QB when he turns pro.

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 03:25 PM
fire all the scouts!!! the stats are in!!!!

Boone
02-10-2008, 03:27 PM
i no that Rian is gud, beecuz hee played inn a pro-stile offents and hee is smart and a leeder
wtf? :rolleyes:

Tetragrammaton
02-10-2008, 03:29 PM
Armchair GM's to the rescue.

phinfan33
02-10-2008, 03:31 PM
we have a QB we need to give a chance,but if we are going to draft a QB,i say no earlier than the 3rd round of the draft. we have more pressing needs on our team than QB.

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 03:35 PM
I saw Ryan roll left at throw a sick pass against VaTech

Vince Young can't even throw rolling right

it spoke volumes that no stats could

Casas9425
02-10-2008, 03:36 PM
qb is always the most pressing need, if they think ryan is an upgrade, which on paper he is, then they need to take him.

SpaceMountain16
02-10-2008, 03:37 PM
we have a QB we need to give a chance,but if we are going to draft a QB,i say no earlier than the 3rd round of the draft. we have more pressing needs on our team than QB.

Well if you want consistent success in the NFL, you need a franchise QB. If Bill Parcells legitimately thinks Matt Ryan is that guy, then yes he should take him, as there is no more pressing of a need than a franchise QB. But i agree with you, John Beck still needs to be evaluated more, i personally would be more comfortable with trading down, filling the holes on this team through the draft in bulk (lots of picks), taking a QB later on in the draft and going from there.

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 03:39 PM
I think Henne would be a nice pick, QB competition and insurance

cowboy82nd
02-10-2008, 03:55 PM
I just have one thought on Matt Ryan. If he is going to be drafted as high as you guys think he is, then it won't be by us. Parcells NEVER NEVER takes a quarterback that high.

X-Pacolypse
02-10-2008, 03:56 PM
Matt Ryan sucks. Boo Matt Ryan, Hooray John Beck!

SpaceMountain16
02-10-2008, 03:57 PM
I just have one thought on Matt Ryan. If he is going to be drafted as high as you guys think he is, then it won't be by us. Parcells NEVER NEVER takes a quarterback that high.

That might be because Parcells has RARELY* picked this high.

*Forgot about Bledsoe, Parcells coached teams have had top five picks i think only one time.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 03:57 PM
I just have one thought on Matt Ryan. If he is going to be drafted as high as you guys think he is, then it won't be by us. Parcells NEVER NEVER takes a quarterback that high. Drew Bledsoe anyone. BTW love the Hong Kong Phooey avatar

Disgustipate
02-10-2008, 03:59 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.

I dont think any GM has said anything about him. He sort of spontaneously got thrust forth into the top 10 of the draft through some bizarre and poorly explained mechanism that occurs when there isnt an "elite" QB prospect in the draft.

Basically what happens is draft "experts" all have some sort of shared psychological experience where they randomly elect a quarterback into the top 10 because they feel empty without one there.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 04:01 PM
I dont think any GM has said anything about him. He sort of spontaneously got thrust forth into the top 10 of the draft through some bizarre and poorly explained mechanism that occurs when there isnt an "elite" QB prospect in the draft.

Basically what happens is draft "experts" all have some sort of shared psychological experience where they randomly elect a quarterback into the top 10 because they feel empty without one there.Tom Heckert said it and Casserly polled 32 GMs and said Ryan was the consensus best

NJFINSFAN1
02-10-2008, 04:02 PM
Im amazed. Dont you guys ever question your take on Ryan? I mean really. If I was convinced someone sucked but every professional talent evaluator said he was good I might just step back a bit and wonder if I scouted him right?


I don't think he is bad, just not the # 1 pick and not someone we should take.

NJFINSFAN1
02-10-2008, 04:04 PM
I saw Ryan roll left at throw a sick pass against VaTech

Vince Young can't even throw rolling right

it spoke volumes that no stats could

he can't throw standing still (Young)

Madman29
02-10-2008, 04:04 PM
Personally I like Matt Ryan however I do not believe that the Dolphins should draft him. I think he will be a solid starting NFL QB but I dont think he is worth the #1 pick. Our Dolphins have many more needs to address and I have faith in Beck. Matt Ryan may not have had the best numbers and like many people say, its not all about the numbers, but he didnt have much talent around him. He really led BC and made them a contender for most of the season. Yes he has the size and he has the intangibles that you need to be successful. Now all he needs is to be coached. I know a lot of people question his arm but I would rather have a QB who knows how to win rather than a QB with the best arm. Look at Daunte Culpepper he has an amazing arm and his accuracy is good but he doesnt know how to read a defense and crumbles under pressure. All im trying to say is that Matt Ryan is a solid QB and I dont think anyone really needs to question his playing ability. What we need is for Ryan to really stand out during todays skills competition and hopefully he goes to the combine so that teams like the falcons will want to trade up for him.

NorFlaFin
02-10-2008, 04:12 PM
Scouting via statsheets make you the Oakland Raiders...............
Or the Detroit Lions.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 04:12 PM
Personally I like Matt Ryan however I do not believe that the Dolphins should draft him. I think he will be a solid starting NFL QB but I dont think he is worth the #1 pick. Our Dolphins have many more needs to address and I have faith in Beck. Matt Ryan may not have had the best numbers and like many people say, its not all about the numbers, but he didnt have much talent around him. He really led BC and made them a contender for most of the season. Yes he has the size and he has the intangibles that you need to be successful. Now all he needs is to be coached. I know a lot of people question his arm but I would rather have a QB who knows how to win rather than a QB with the best arm. Look at Daunte Culpepper he has an amazing arm and his accuracy is good but he doesnt know how to read a defense and crumbles under pressure. All im trying to say is that Matt Ryan is a solid QB and I dont think anyone really needs to question his playing ability. What we need is for Ryan to really stand out during todays skills competition and hopefully he goes to the combine so that teams like the falcons will want to trade up for him.

Nice post. I think that's the only legit argument against drafting Ryan. Too many people feel compelled to trash Ryan in their defense of Beck which is just silly. The argument against taking him is Beck will develop and we have other needs. But to trash Ryan is just ridiculous. Its like trashing Eli Manning or Ben Rothlisberger when they were coming out

SpaceMountain16
02-10-2008, 04:13 PM
Scouting via statsheets make you the Oakland Raiders...............
Or the Detroit Lions.

I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous

those teams dont scout...:up:

Marino420TD
02-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Nice post. I think that's the only legit argument against drafting Ryan. Too many people feel compelled to trash Ryan in their defense of Beck which is just silly. The argument against taking him is Beck will develop and we have other needs. But to trash Ryan is just ridiculous. Its like trashing Eli Manning or Ben Rothlisberger when they were coming out

Very good post.

DOL-FAN92
02-10-2008, 04:45 PM
Is all that really neccessary...Thats all his numbers say???

I do believe,If Im not mistaken that he is 24-7 as a starter....

thats better than miamis record since....well...for a long time(im talking about how many wins get gets per season).

infact...his talent was probably a little worse than ours,ephasizing on "LITTLE".

If Matt can win 24-7 with that kind of offense,let alone team,he would do wonder for Miami.

Last time I checked,if he were an average QB,he wouldn't win 24 games with the talent we basically have(with the exception of Ronnie Brown),something no one has done in Miami in a long time.

With Ryan,if he can take that sorry JV team called Boston College to 24 wins,than the sky is the limit for Ryan in Miami,basically Miami is a V team,I believe Ryan can make the transition just fine.

P.S.

If Ryan hadn't taken so many chance,he wouldn't have won 24 games.In the NFL,you have to be willing to throw the ball into the wrong hands,or other wise youre holding back,and thats something Miami needs,someone to "push the envelope" once in a while.You can NEVER win in the NFL if you aren't willing to take chances.

DOL-FAN92
02-10-2008, 04:51 PM
he can't throw standing still (Young)

:sidelol:

Greatness920
02-10-2008, 05:27 PM
im just gonna put my two cents in but matt ryan looks and feels like a ryan leaf bros i dunno bout him

lbmclean_sj
02-10-2008, 05:32 PM
im just gonna put my two cents in but matt ryan looks and feels like a ryan leaf bros i dunno bout him

you're joking right?

Ryan is an extremely physically talented but incredibly immature young QB?

whatever

NorFlaFin
02-10-2008, 05:45 PM
Just watch the replay of the 2008 QB skills competition.

Brennen won the accuracy - the announcer remined everybody of the Georigia game(no pass rush)
Flacco won the long ball 80yrs - the announcers reminded everbody of the JaMarcus throwing from his knees.
Henne had the NFL "IT" does couldn't hit the boardslide of a barn.

Matt Ryan - easy the best looking QB, arm(almost equaled Flacco), accuracy, intangibles.

McShay had a serious man-crush on Ryan.

cnc66
02-10-2008, 05:46 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.

so what.. maybe he is the best in "this" draft.. that has nothing to do with his value at number one.. he isn't worth it. BTW, can you show us a link demonstrating this outlandish claim ? It really shows an agenda when you exaggerate things to bolster an already weak argument. Hell, in "my" opinion, we already have a kid on our roster better than him.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 05:56 PM
so what.. maybe he is the best in "this" draft.. that has nothing to do with his value at number one.. he isn't worth it. BTW, can you show us a link demonstrating this outlandish claim ? It really shows an agenda when you exaggerate things to bolster an already weak argument. Hell, in "my" opinion, we already have a kid on our roster better than him.

heckert and casserly as stated in previous posts. look em up yourself.

cnc66
02-10-2008, 06:10 PM
heckert and casserly as stated in previous posts. look em up yourself.

not my job, I didn't make the statement.. you did, the onus of proof is upon YOU... and again, so what.. all that means is he's the best qb, and THAT has nothing to do with his comparative value to Dorsey or Long. The last thing we need to do is overpay for a mediocre qb.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 06:30 PM
not my job, I didn't make the statement.. you did, the onus of proof is upon YOU... and again, so what.. all that means is he's the best qb, and THAT has nothing to do with his comparative value to Dorsey or Long. The last thing we need to do is overpay for a mediocre qb. It would be my job if I cared enough to dig it up. As to comparative value, in the article where Heckert was quoted 2 GMS picked Ryan with first overall, two C Long, two McFadden, one Dorsey. The Casserly one I dont remember if they went into number one overall. I just remember he was consensus number one QB by a poll of all 32 GMS

cnc66
02-10-2008, 06:32 PM
It would be my job if I cared enough to dig it up. As to comparative value, in the article where Heckert was quoted 2 GMS picked Ryan with first overall, two C Long, two McFadden, one Dorsey. The Casserly one I dont remember if they went into number one overall. I just remember he was consensus number one QB by a poll of all 32 GMS

I see, well, we aren't in vip I guess, you can get away with unsupported claims that out here.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 06:35 PM
I see, well, we aren't in vip I guess, you can get away with unsupported claims that out here. Tell you what. I'll dig em up if you agree to sport a Matt Ryan sig. Ive been on this site for several years now and have never posted a false story. So if Im going to go through the trouble then I need to be rewarded. By now my word should be enough

cnc66
02-10-2008, 06:40 PM
Tell you what. I'll dig em up if you agree to sport a Matt Ryan sig. Ive been on this site for several years now and have never posted a false story. So if Im going to go through the trouble then I need to be rewarded

not on your life bro.. I didn't make the statement.. but that's ok, kinna odd you feel you need to look for a reward to do the right thing, I really don't care all that much, it is irrelevant anyway. The best qb in this draft is barely a top 5 pick, and certainly not a number one.

OneHondo
02-10-2008, 06:41 PM
Any QB taken in any draft has the potential of being the next Ryan Leaf. Brady Quinn and John Beck are still a risk of being what we fear most. But theres a chance that both could end up being the next great QB. You can't judge Beck by what went on last year, the way the Dolphins were disorganized and out of sync from the start. As confusing as it was for Ronnie Brown and the running backs it had to be tough on a rookie QB.
I agree that we shouldn't use the #1 pick on Matt Ryan but I like the idea of the Dolphins taking the quarterback position seriously and not an afterthought as they have done for such a long time before Beck was drafted. The days of picking up usable 2nd and 3rd string QBs are over hopefully.

Casas9425
02-10-2008, 06:42 PM
their is no argument, matt ryan is a consensus franchise calibur qb. john beck was never considered a franchise qb. most experts have ryan as a franchise guy beck was rated by many to be the 5th best qb last year.

Paul 13
02-10-2008, 06:46 PM
Matt Ryan = Alex Smith as far as comparative value goes with respect to each draft. Smith was considered the top qb prospect in his draft by the majority. After Indy, I don't doubt that Ryan will be in the same boat. I'm glad we have John Beck and don't have to worry about taking Ryan at #1 we have many other needs.

Geforce
02-10-2008, 06:47 PM
Is all that really neccessary...Thats all his numbers say???

I do believe,If Im not mistaken that he is 24-7 as a starter....

thats better than miamis record since....well...for a long time(im talking about how many wins get gets per season).

infact...his talent was probably a little worse than ours,ephasizing on "LITTLE".

If Matt can win 24-7 with that kind of offense,let alone team,he would do wonder for Miami.

Last time I checked,if he were an average QB,he wouldn't win 24 games with the talent we basically have(with the exception of Ronnie Brown),something no one has done in Miami in a long time.

With Ryan,if he can take that sorry JV team called Boston College to 24 wins,than the sky is the limit for Ryan in Miami,basically Miami is a V team,I believe Ryan can make the transition just fine.

P.S.

If Ryan hadn't taken so many chance,he wouldn't have won 24 games.In the NFL,you have to be willing to throw the ball into the wrong hands,or other wise youre holding back,and thats something Miami needs,someone to "push the envelope" once in a while.You can NEVER win in the NFL if you aren't willing to take chances.

You don't think Ryan's won-lost record has anything to do with that very good defense BC has?

Casas9425
02-10-2008, 06:50 PM
alex smith compares more to john beck in that they both played the same spread offense and a pretty soft schedule

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 06:53 PM
Just watch the replay of the 2008 QB skills competition.

Brennen won the accuracy - the announcer remined everybody of the Georigia game(no pass rush)
Flacco won the long ball 80yrs - the announcers reminded everbody of the JaMarcus throwing from his knees.
Henne had the NFL "IT" does couldn't hit the boardslide of a barn.

Matt Ryan - easy the best looking QB, arm(almost equaled Flacco), accuracy, intangibles.

McShay had a serious man-crush on Ryan.



Ryan arm almost equalled to Flacco... no no no
Ryan doesn't come close to the strength and zip on the throws. Ryan though is more of an accurate QB and puts the ball where needed, but wont be able to squeeze it into tight spaces like Flacco would be able too.

Flacco is less accurate intermediately, but has the zip and strength to make some plays Ryan wouldn't be able too.

Geforce
02-10-2008, 07:17 PM
alex smith compares more to john beck in that they both played the same spread offense and a pretty soft schedule

Beck and Smith played in a spread offense but they were anything but the same. The spread offense Beck ran was based off the one run by Texas Tech where the QB is not asked to do a lot of running, if any. The spread offense Smith ran is the Urban Meyer spread and requires the QB to run quite often.

finfan54
02-10-2008, 07:18 PM
I just have one thought on Matt Ryan. If he is going to be drafted as high as you guys think he is, then it won't be by us. Parcells NEVER NEVER takes a quarterback that high.

Drew Bledsoe?

finfan54
02-10-2008, 07:22 PM
Matt Ryan has all the prototype skills. He is also suppose to be good at reading defenses and such. His talent was not very good from what I have heard or read or their were injuries the team was dealing with at WR.

Ryan is a smart cookie who can improvise. It will take him time to develope however, just like any QB coming out. He does not have character issues and is a leader which is what they already know.

StLouisFinFan
02-10-2008, 07:26 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.
Sorry, Adam, but I've gotta call you on this one. Give me a list of "all GMs" who consider him the "best" in the country, please. From what I know, there are a couple of GMs, ala Charley Casserly, who provide their "professional" opinions on some of these draft nik web sites, magazines, etc., but that's hardly "every GM", or even "most GMs". You have to remember to take what some of these draft niks say about players coming out of college, as you'll often be fed a stream of garbage that they picked off of the junk heap of "scouting reports" they stole from other similar scouting services. If these guys were really talented at evaluating college level prospects, don't you think they'd have real jobs with real teams instead of playing the role of a poser while feeding the NFL media hype machine with regurgitated crap?

Cases in point:

Jerry Rice was too slow and didn't play top level competition
Brett Favre was too wild
Eric Dickerson ran too upright
Dave Meggett was too small
Zach Thomas was too small

And while I know that John Beck has his own set of question marks, a few question marks he shouldn't have had while coming out of college were his arm strength or his deep ball ability. I saw this crap from just about every one of those draft nik outlets, and yet I come to find out, on my own by reviewing game film and stats, that in his first two years, under a different offensive system that was geared for the vertical offense, he was slinging it long and hitting the mark. On top of that, he put up one of the highest ball velocity numbers in the combine in the last few years (2nd highest his draft year). So, you'll have to excuse me if I scoff at what is being written about certain players. It's mostly regurgitated, recycled garbage.

I am Bane
02-10-2008, 07:31 PM
NY GIANTS:

1984- Jeff Hostetler round 3 #59

NE Patriots:

1993- Drew Bledsoe round 1 #1

NY JETS:

they got Pennington the year after he left

DALLAS COWBOYS:

not one in 5 years

MIAMI DOLPHINS:

2008- BANE round 1 #1


but looking at his draft history, man he finds some great palyers in low rounds, and much talent that lasts a long time. that also is due to great coaching!!!

StLouisFinFan
02-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Matt Ryan has all the prototype skills. He is also suppose to be good at reading defenses and such. His talent was not very good from what I have heard or read or their were injuries the team was dealing with at WR.

Ryan is a smart cookie who can improvise. It will take him time to develope however, just like any QB coming out. He does not have character issues and is a leader which is what they already know.
Throwing a lot of Ints isn't prototypical for an NFL QB. I doubt any of his sub-par talented teammates threw those picks either. And true NFL QB superstars don't need someone else to offer up excuses to counter his red flags.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 07:53 PM
Sorry, Adam, but I've gotta call you on this one. Give me a list of "all GMs" who consider him the "best" in the country, please. From what I know, there are a couple of GMs, ala Charley Casserly, who provide their "professional" opinions on some of these draft nik web sites, magazines, etc., but that's hardly "every GM", or even "most GMs". You have to remember to take what some of these draft niks say about players coming out of college, as you'll often be fed a stream of garbage that they picked off of the junk heap of "scouting reports" they stole from other similar scouting services. If these guys were really talented at evaluating college level prospects, don't you think they'd have real jobs with real teams instead of playing the role of a poser while feeding the NFL media hype machine with regurgitated crap?

Cases in point:

Jerry Rice was too slow and didn't play top level competition
Brett Favre was too wild
Eric Dickerson ran too upright
Dave Meggett was too small
Zach Thomas was too small

And while I know that John Beck has his own set of question marks, a few question marks he shouldn't have had while coming out of college were his arm strength or his deep ball ability. I saw this crap from just about every one of those draft nik outlets, and yet I come to find out, on my own by reviewing game film and stats, that in his first two years, under a different offensive system that was geared for the vertical offense, he was slinging it long and hitting the mark. On top of that, he put up one of the highest ball velocity numbers in the combine in the last few years (2nd highest his draft year). So, you'll have to excuse me if I scoff at what is being written about certain players. It's mostly regurgitated, recycled garbage.




I cant believe Matt Ryan being the consensus best QB in the draft is still debatable. Only on FinHeaven

Here for you and cncc

Here is the Heckert article I mentioned earlier

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080124dan-pompei-nfl-draft,1,2370977.column

The Tribune asked seven NFL front office executives whom they would pick if they had the first selection. Six of them first said they would trade the pick if they could. But the chances of a trade are minimal — the Dolphins' only possibility would be if they accepted lower than market value for the pick.

"I don't see anybody moving into that spot," Browns general manager Phil Savage said. "Why? It's hard when there are really, really good players up there."

Told they couldn't trade, two front office men said they would take Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan, two would take Virginia defensive end Chris Long and two would take Arkansas running back Darren McFadden. One said he would take Louisiana State defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey.

Another mentioned Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long as a possibility, but conceded he rated Long below Joe Thomas, whom the Browns took with the third pick of the 2007 draft.

The Casserly statement was on CBS so unless you know how to get CBS transcripts the best I can do is indirect references from dtraft blogs

Matt Ryan is the consensus top QB in the opinions of NFL draft scouts. Charlie Casserly contacted all 32 teams and to inquire on where they ranked this years prospects. Casserly said "Ryan is head and shoulders above all the other QB's in the minds of the NFL scouts." Smart move by Ryan to not do anything to change that. Now somebody like Brohm could change that by having a lights out Senior Bowl, but that's out of Ryan's hands.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17105&highlight=casserly+ryan

Silverphin
02-10-2008, 08:05 PM
We never said that Matt Ryan isn't the best QB prospect. He just isn't worth the #1 pick.

NorFlaFin
02-10-2008, 08:17 PM
Other then Glen Dorsey nobody is really worth the No.1 pick.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 08:28 PM
We never said that Matt Ryan isn't the best QB prospect. He just isn't worth the #1 pick.

Well out of seven front office guys (pros not amatuers) Ryan shares the lead with Chris Long and Mcfadden so obviously he is worth it if you go by professional and not amateur opinions. He is "worth" it as much as C Long and McFadden are and more so than J Long and Dorsey. That at least is documented. Unless that's the legendary "smokescreen" all the front office guys are doing now. Its one thing to say we should go another direction which is a fair response. Its completely ridiculous to say he's not "worth" a number one. Could things change after the combine. Absolutely. One of these guys might vault ahead of everyone else. But as of now, they're all neck and neck and I would imagine that McFadden has dropped after his recent personal problems. As Parcells said he wont be listening to the cottage cheese industry of blog sites. He'll be listening to professionals. And no I wont find the quote for Parcells:shakeno::)

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 08:31 PM
Other then Glen Dorsey nobody is really worth the No.1 pick.

Actually that's the best way of putting it and if we're running a 3-4 Dorsey isnt even worth it:lol::up:

Silverphin
02-10-2008, 08:38 PM
Actually that's the best way of putting it and if we're running a 3-4 Dorsey isnt even worth it:lol::up:

Dorsey is 6'2" 316 as of the Senior Bowl Measure, only four lbs off from ideal NT weight, plus Dorsey has the ability to play multiple positions and techniques on the line, as shown at LSU.

cnc66
02-10-2008, 08:41 PM
I cant believe Matt Ryan being the consensus best QB in the draft is still debatable. Only on FinHeaven

Here for you and cncc

Here is the Heckert article I mentioned earlier

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080124dan-pompei-nfl-draft,1,2370977.column

The Tribune asked seven NFL front office executives whom they would pick if they had the first selection. Six of them first said they would trade the pick if they could. But the chances of a trade are minimal — the Dolphins' only possibility would be if they accepted lower than market value for the pick.

"I don't see anybody moving into that spot," Browns general manager Phil Savage said. "Why? It's hard when there are really, really good players up there."

Told they couldn't trade, two front office men said they would take Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan, two would take Virginia defensive end Chris Long and two would take Arkansas running back Darren McFadden. One said he would take Louisiana State defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey.

Another mentioned Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long as a possibility, but conceded he rated Long below Joe Thomas, whom the Browns took with the third pick of the 2007 draft.

The Casserly statement was on CBS so unless you know how to get CBS transcripts the best I can do is indirect references from dtraft blogs

Matt Ryan is the consensus top QB in the opinions of NFL draft scouts. Charlie Casserly contacted all 32 teams and to inquire on where they ranked this years prospects. Casserly said "Ryan is head and shoulders above all the other QB's in the minds of the NFL scouts." Smart move by Ryan to not do anything to change that. Now somebody like Brohm could change that by having a lights out Senior Bowl, but that's out of Ryan's hands.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17105&highlight=casserly+ryan

First, like I said Adam, it's not all that important to me where he ranks among the other qb's, to me, that is irrelevent, but this article does not support your claim. You said;



Originally Posted by adamprez2003 http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1062305788#post1062305788)
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.


Now I couldn't find that ^^ anywhere, this Chicago Trib article doesn't support your contention.

I did find some stuff "I" believe to be true, and I think this is the heart of "our" disagreement. To me, Ryan is not even close to being the best option for our team, "I" don't think he is any better than Beck. Now John is not the next manning, but I think he will be good qb, same as Ryan and Quinn. It is just not in our best interest to set aside everything for what is likely not an upgrade. It is prudent to draft another qb, but not with the first overall. Here is the part I agreed with




But most teams do not rate Ryan as highly as some previous top quarterback picks such as JaMarcus Russell, Eli Manning and Carson Palmer.

"This year none of the quarterbacks are franchise guys," one team president said. "You can't even argue they might be.



Now, on that second link.. it didn't support you either.. It was talking about scouts, not gm's, and it doesn't even say "all" the word of contention.

I hope Parcells sells everyone and their mother we are going to pick this kid.. MAYBE Atlanta will freak out and get stupid, but our first pick needs to be Howie's kid or Dorsey.

StLouisFinFan
02-10-2008, 08:46 PM
I cant believe Matt Ryan being the consensus best QB in the draft is still debatable. Only on FinHeaven

Here for you and cncc

Here is the Heckert article I mentioned earlier

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080124dan-pompei-nfl-draft,1,2370977.column

The Tribune asked seven NFL front office executives whom they would pick if they had the first selection. Six of them first said they would trade the pick if they could. But the chances of a trade are minimal — the Dolphins' only possibility would be if they accepted lower than market value for the pick.

"I don't see anybody moving into that spot," Browns general manager Phil Savage said. "Why? It's hard when there are really, really good players up there."

Told they couldn't trade, two front office men said they would take Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan, two would take Virginia defensive end Chris Long and two would take Arkansas running back Darren McFadden. One said he would take Louisiana State defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey.

Another mentioned Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long as a possibility, but conceded he rated Long below Joe Thomas, whom the Browns took with the third pick of the 2007 draft.

The Casserly statement was on CBS so unless you know how to get CBS transcripts the best I can do is indirect references from dtraft blogs

Matt Ryan is the consensus top QB in the opinions of NFL draft scouts. Charlie Casserly contacted all 32 teams and to inquire on where they ranked this years prospects. Casserly said "Ryan is head and shoulders above all the other QB's in the minds of the NFL scouts." Smart move by Ryan to not do anything to change that. Now somebody like Brohm could change that by having a lights out Senior Bowl, but that's out of Ryan's hands.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17105&highlight=casserly+ryan
I agree, he is probably the best prospect, THIS year. But drafting Ryan at No. 1, or even in the top 15, IMO, is sort of like buying a house that's worth $100K for $200K just because you're itching to get out of your existing house, which really just needs some new paint, a little sanding and some new furniture to accentuate, and the current housing market is in the crapper. Sure, maybe it's the best of what's available now, but that doesn't mean I have to settle on a house I don't really like, and pay double in the process. I'd rather put a little blood, sweat and tears into the one I already have. Now, if I wanted to settle on a long term investment property, then by all means invest in a "fixer-upper" to hedge my investments.

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 08:52 PM
First, like I said Adam, it's not all that important to me where he ranks among the other qb's, to me, that is irrelevent, but this article does not support your claim. You said;


Now I couldn't find that ^^ anywhere, this Chicago Trib article doesn't support your contention.

I did find some stuff "I" believe to be true, and I think this is the heart of "our" disagreement. To me, Ryan is not even close to being the best option for our team, "I" don't think he is any better than Beck. Now John is not the next manning, but I think he will be good qb, same as Ryan and Quinn. It is just not in our best interest to set aside everything for what is likely not an upgrade. It is prudent to draft another qb, but not with the first overall. Here is the part I agreed with



Now, on that second link.. it didn't support you either.. It was talking about scouts, not gm's, and it doesn't even say "all" the word of contention.

I hope Parcells sells everyone and their mother we are going to pick this kid.. MAYBE Atlanta will freak out and get stupid, but our first pick needs to be Howie's kid or Dorsey.

See that kind of disagreement I'm perfectly fine with. So long as the arguments are based on Beck becoming good enough and we should be addressing other needs. Its when the arguments digress to Ryan suck or isnt worth a top ten pick or isnt worth a number one that they get silly. There are probably 7 players that areworth a number one and Ryan is certainly in the mix. We all have our preferences but I cant say I would be upset with any of them. I trust our GM and the shadow behind him.

As to the article. Fine 32 scouts. the majority have ryan head and shoulders above all the other QBs. What's a reasonable guess as to what head and shoulders constitutes and what's you're best guess as to the number that view it that way- 25 of 32, 17 of 32, 30 of 32? C'mon CNCC, I know you're just busting my chops but seriously, how many GMs or scouts do you reasonably believe have any QB rated ahead of Ryan. Maybe Matt Millen has Ainge rated ahead of Ryan. I can understand having this debate in October and maybe again after the combine but at this stage its pretty much settled dont you think

Here. I'll make you a deal. Find me one GM who's on record saying that he doesnt think Ryan is the number one QB prospect in the nation

adamprez2003
02-10-2008, 08:54 PM
I agree, he is probably the best prospect, THIS year. But drafting Ryan at No. 1, or even in the top 15, IMO, is sort of like buying a house that's worth $100K for $200K just because you're itching to get out of your existing house, which really just needs some new paint, a little sanding and some new furniture to accentuate, and the current housing market is in the crapper. Sure, maybe it's the best of what's available now, but that doesn't mean I have to settle on a house I don't really like, and pay double in the process. I'd rather put a little blood, sweat and tears into the one I already have. Now, if I wanted to settle on a long term investment property, then by all means invest in a "fixer-upper" to hedge my investments.

:wink: Great way to put it. Me I'm looking to purchase a summer home

2413fanphins
02-10-2008, 09:23 PM
I posted this on another thread but I will ask here in case cncc or anybody else who seems knowledgeable could help me along.

say we switch to a 3-4D. I have read on here that some people have the opinion that C. long needs to bulk up to play DE on a 3-4. I read another's opinion that if we draft him he will play OLB.

If he's draft to play DE, than I take it we are sitting matt roth. In which case we than need another DE for the other side, because my understanding is that taylor would be OLB. so we than fill a hole and open up another by him playing DE... am I wrong here?

secondly, if he plays OLB... than what the hell are we going to do with our 3DL> the fact that c long is in the conversation in the first place suggests to me that we have other plans for roth... perhaps coming off the bench to sub or something.

that means, we either have roth at DE and getting burned all the time. Or we just have not a whole lot going for us at DL. Do we possess a NT now, I can't think of one.

I realize FA and trades could take place to allow the filling of some of these holes, but as of right now all I have to go on is the draft.

To me it makes more sense to go with dorsey, if he truly is only 4 lbs away from typical NT weight thats fine. IF not he fits a 4-3 nicely as well.

otherwise, it's jake long or matt ryan imo.

somebody clear this up please?

Hargitt01
02-10-2008, 09:32 PM
For those of you who want Matt Ryan, with all do respect, ARE YOU GUYS NUTS?! He's a turnover machine.. Ya ya, he has the "prototypical NFL QB size" but that doesnt mean anything when you throw INTs consistently..

His best game of the season was against Bowling Green where he threw 4 TDs and 0 Ints... Very good numbers, but then again the supposedly #1 pickk in the NFL should be putting up those numbers against garbage, smaller schools...
In fact, in ONLY 2 games, he has thrown 0 INTs and those two games were against small, garbage schools- Bowling Green and University of Mass., a 1-AA school.
In 12 of his 14 games, he has thrown ATLEAST 1 INT. In half of his games (7), he has thrown ATLEAST 2 INTs.
A good threshold of where I believe a QB should have his completion percentage at or above is 60% and in 6 games, his completion percentage has dipped below that 60% threshold. Furthermore, in 4 games, his completion percentage has dropped BELOW 50% against FSU, VT, NCST, and in his BOWL GAME, against MSU.

I know, I know you Matt Ryan fans will argue that numbers aren't everything and I agree... to an EXTENT..but his numbers are not only mediocre, but actually pretty bad... Take out his games against BG and UMASS, and hes an average QB...He throws waaayyy too many INTs...He threw 14 INTs in his last 8 games... Yikes, you cant have that in the NFL during the final stretch of the season...This guy is NFL size, and thats about it


That's what I am talking about. Numbers don't lie. This guy is a turnover machine. No love for Matt Ryan. Now Brian Brohm........He's a guy with greatr numbers, accuracy, Ideal Height, not a turnover machine.

NorFlaFin
02-10-2008, 10:01 PM
Actually that's the best way of putting it and if we're running a 3-4 Dorsey isn't even worth it:lol::up:

If Glen Dorsey really is Warren Sapp part II (improved) then you change your philosophy's and run a 4-3.

Similar to what Shula did when he drafted Marino with the 27th pick.

BTW:Cowboys ran 4-3 under Parcels for the first two years. Maybe they go back? They did hire Campo back.

Geforce
02-10-2008, 10:05 PM
I posted this on another thread but I will ask here in case cncc or anybody else who seems knowledgeable could help me along.

say we switch to a 3-4D. I have read on here that some people have the opinion that C. long needs to bulk up to play DE on a 3-4. I read another's opinion that if we draft him he will play OLB.

If he's draft to play DE, than I take it we are sitting matt roth. In which case we than need another DE for the other side, because my understanding is that taylor would be OLB. so we than fill a hole and open up another by him playing DE... am I wrong here?
If we play the 34 and C. Long is placed at DE, we already have someone opposite of him and their names are Vonnie Holliday and Rod Wright.


secondly, if he plays OLB... than what the hell are we going to do with our 3DL> the fact that c long is in the conversation in the first place suggests to me that we have other plans for roth... perhaps coming off the bench to sub or something.
You are absolutely correct about Roth. It was reported that he is best suited as a situational player coming off the bench. Roth also doesn't have the agility to play OLB.

that means, we either have roth at DE and getting burned all the time. Or we just have not a whole lot going for us at DL. Do we possess a NT now, I can't think of one.
We actually have two young NT who just needs to work on their techniques and get up to game speed. Steven Fifta and Paul Soliai. Soliai has the size many are looking for but he struggled all season with his techniques and hand placements.

I realize FA and trades could take place to allow the filling of some of these holes, but as of right now all I have to go on is the draft.

To me it makes more sense to go with dorsey, if he truly is only 4 lbs away from typical NT weight thats fine. IF not he fits a 4-3 nicely as well.

otherwise, it's jake long or matt ryan imo.

somebody clear this up please?
Who says Dorsey is only 4 lbs away from typcial NT weight? IMO it doesn't matter anyway because you don't draft a NT #1 anyways.

cnc66
02-10-2008, 10:16 PM
I posted this on another thread but I will ask here in case cncc or anybody else who seems knowledgeable could help me along.

say we switch to a 3-4D. I have read on here that some people have the opinion that C. long needs to bulk up to play DE on a 3-4. I read another's opinion that if we draft him he will play OLB.

If he's draft to play DE, than I take it we are sitting matt roth. In which case we than need another DE for the other side, because my understanding is that taylor would be OLB. so we than fill a hole and open up another by him playing DE... am I wrong here?

secondly, if he plays OLB... than what the hell are we going to do with our 3DL> the fact that c long is in the conversation in the first place suggests to me that we have other plans for roth... perhaps coming off the bench to sub or something.

that means, we either have roth at DE and getting burned all the time. Or we just have not a whole lot going for us at DL. Do we possess a NT now, I can't think of one.

I realize FA and trades could take place to allow the filling of some of these holes, but as of right now all I have to go on is the draft.

To me it makes more sense to go with dorsey, if he truly is only 4 lbs away from typical NT weight thats fine. IF not he fits a 4-3 nicely as well.

otherwise, it's jake long or matt ryan imo.

somebody clear this up please?

I'm not sure I can answer your questions, but I can make some comment. The thing to remember is that what is considered prototypical for a position will vary person to person. JT wasn't pro-typical for his position, so don't consider "opinions" as fact. CLong and Dorsey both would benefit from nfl strength programs but both are already capable.

Now, on the positions. I think both players, CLong and Dorsey if eother is picked by us, would be moved all over the place looking for miss-matches. Both are strong at the point of attack and have a great first step. So in turn, this would create many packages with rotation opportunities. We would see Long standing up, hand down, back into coverage.. one of the attractive things about he and Dorsey both are their versatility.

If we get Long, Roth might hit the trade table so your concern could be real about him, but maybe not. New coach, maybe Roth's game improves again bringing him out of mediocre. He would certainly have some better match ups with Long in the game. We have Wright, Soliai, Page, Vonny and Truck on the roster at tackle, Truck imo, is gone for sure but I don't know who we might displace because of Dorsey, maybe none.

"I" believe either of these picks are a win win, with me favoring Dorsey. I think both players pick up those around them, but IMO, we need to stop the run first. Sparano has said that the system will fit the player, if we get a shot at solving a need as big as d-line we can hardly lose. It's not all that big of a deal to incorporate someone as talented as these two. Half the fun will be watching us discover new ways to use one of these guys.

JsBaugh
02-10-2008, 11:35 PM
Tom Heckert said it and Casserly polled 32 GMs and said Ryan was the consensus best

If that is true then it shows how weak this draft is for QB's. Ryans numbers were not great and he blew some important games for BC with some stupid INT's. For all those that want Ryan, he wouldnt start next year anyway even if the Fins take him. He is way to big a project.

Nappy Roots
02-10-2008, 11:53 PM
Right and that's why every gm says he's the best QB in the country.


lmao. that and his supposed intangibles is ryan supporters only arguement....

Webb78OLman
02-10-2008, 11:56 PM
I honestly don't think we should draft Matt Ryan with the #1 overall pick. I don't base this on the numbers, I base this on seeing him myself in person. I watched from the VT student section in that Thursday night choke against Matt Ryan. Don't get me wrong, what Matt Ryan did in those last 4 minutes to lead his team to victory was heartbreaking, amazing, and showed real leadership. However, in those same 4 minutes the VT defense (which had been hitting him all night with heavy pressure) stopped actually pressuring him. Whether VT went to prevent defense (which always prevents you from winning), Boston College actually started to block, or whatever else, they didn't pressure him. So how good is it really if he's allowed to sit back and pick apart a secondary without any pressure? Also, how good is he really if he sucked (and I mean really sucked) for the first 56 minutes of the game? I'm sorry, but football is a 60 minutes sport, you have to play all 60 minutes. So based on my own personal experience I don't think he's worth the #1 pick.

That being said, if Parcells and Ireland think he is, then I have to trust them because they know better than I do (or at least I hope they do). I would just like to see Beck get another year to prove himself, bring in a veteran QB to challenge him.