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jim1
02-12-2008, 09:36 AM
Dolphin moves could mean it'll be a Long draft
Posted by: J.D. Robinson on February 12, 2008 12:49 AM

Just some guy's opinion, but one that I tend to agree with:

On Monday, Miami's new regime began what is the first of what is expected to be many waves of turning current Dolphins into former ones. In doing so, the team might have tipped off what it's thinking entering April's NFL (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) draft. It appears that former offensive lineman and new head coach Tony Sparano isn't going to waste time molding a line in his image, and Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long might want to start looking for real estate in South Florida.
Four tackles were shown the door Monday by Miami general manager Jeff Ireland, including three who either played significant roles in 2007 or figured into the team's long-term plans during the recent past.

Obviously, there are many different directions the Dolphins can go with the first overall pick in the upcoming draft. If the Dolphins cannot trade down, then they are likely to select one of three players: LSU defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey, Boston College quarterback (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) Matt Ryan or Long. Even with Monday's release of Trent Green and Keith Traylor -- potentially paving the way for Ryan or Dorsey to respectively replace them -- the moves indicate that the 6-foot-7, 315-pound Long is the current favorite.

Sparano has probably reviewed the game tape from the 2007 campaign, and likely has come to the conclusion many in South Florida had around the middle of November: Vernon Carey is better suited to play tackle on the right side than the left. After coming along noticeably during 2005 and 2006, Carey was switched from right to left tackle by Cam Cameron before the 2007 season. Carey regressed somewhat this past season, and often showed difficulty in protecting the quarterback's blindside against speed-rushing defensive ends. Shelton's release leaves the right tackle slot open again, and Carey is the most logical replacement.

Drafting Long would also be a benefit to the advancement of John Beck. During the preseason, playing with and against third-stringers, Beck was able to move the Miami offense. When the regular season began, and first-team defensive lines began feasting on the below-average Miami offensive line, Beck struggled. Any hope that Beck can turn into a workable NFL thrower depends on whether he can gain confidence in his passing abilities, which will only happen if he's standing upright. Want to see the difference between a quarterback with time and one without? Go watch Tom Brady against the Giants (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) in Week 17. Then go watch him again in the Super Bowl facing the same team.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html

BlueFin
02-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Dolphin moves could mean it'll be a Long draft
Posted by: J.D. Robinson on February 12, 2008 12:49 AM

Just some guy's opinion, but one that I tend to agree with:

On Monday, Miami's new regime began what is the first of what is expected to be many waves of turning current Dolphins into former ones. In doing so, the team might have tipped off what it's thinking entering April's NFL (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) draft. It appears that former offensive lineman and new head coach Tony Sparano isn't going to waste time molding a line in his image, and Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long might want to start looking for real estate in South Florida.
Four tackles were shown the door Monday by Miami general manager Jeff Ireland, including three who either played significant roles in 2007 or figured into the team's long-term plans during the recent past.

Obviously, there are many different directions the Dolphins can go with the first overall pick in the upcoming draft. If the Dolphins cannot trade down, then they are likely to select one of three players: LSU defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey, Boston College quarterback (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) Matt Ryan or Long. Even with Monday's release of Trent Green and Keith Traylor -- potentially paving the way for Ryan or Dorsey to respectively replace them -- the moves indicate that the 6-foot-7, 315-pound Long is the current favorite.

Sparano has probably reviewed the game tape from the 2007 campaign, and likely has come to the conclusion many in South Florida had around the middle of November: Vernon Carey is better suited to play tackle on the right side than the left. After coming along noticeably during 2005 and 2006, Carey was switched from right to left tackle by Cam Cameron before the 2007 season. Carey regressed somewhat this past season, and often showed difficulty in protecting the quarterback's blindside against speed-rushing defensive ends. Shelton's release leaves the right tackle slot open again, and Carey is the most logical replacement.

Drafting Long would also be a benefit to the advancement of John Beck. During the preseason, playing with and against third-stringers, Beck was able to move the Miami offense. When the regular season began, and first-team defensive lines began feasting on the below-average Miami offensive line, Beck struggled. Any hope that Beck can turn into a workable NFL thrower depends on whether he can gain confidence in his passing abilities, which will only happen if he's standing upright. Want to see the difference between a quarterback with time and one without? Go watch Tom Brady against the Giants (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) in Week 17. Then go watch him again in the Super Bowl facing the same team.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html

I really think this is overreacting.

This is a deep left tackle draft, they could just as easily be targeting a left tackle with pick 32 or later.

My other thought on this is, Jake Long is not an Orlando Pace, Johnathan Ogden, or Tony Boselli caliber prospect, so spending 1st overall money on him is questionable.

Obviously they would love to trade out of this spot I think, but if no deal is possible, it makes more sense to spend that kind of money on a QB, or can't miss guys like Dorsey or C. Long.

The truth is, there will be left tackles drafted later in this draft that have as much or more potential than Jake Long.

The Confessor
02-12-2008, 11:00 AM
I really think this is overreacting.

This is a deep left tackle draft, they could just as easily be targeting a left tackle with pick 32 or later.

My other thought on this is, Jake Long is not an Orlando Pace, Johnathan Ogden, or Tony Boselli caliber prospect, so spending 1st overall money on him is questionable.

Obviously they would love to trade out of this spot I think, but if no deal is possible, it makes more sense to spend that kind of money on a QB, or can't miss guys like Dorsey or C. Long.

The truth is, there will be left tackles drafted later in this draft that have as much or more potential than Jake Long.

Very good point, and this part of the quote makes absolute zero sense




Sparano has probably reviewed the game tape from the 2007 campaign, and likely has come to the conclusion many in South Florida had around the middle of November: Vernon Carey is better suited to play tackle on the right side than the left. After coming along noticeably during 2005 and 2006, Carey was switched from right to left tackle by Cam Cameron before the 2007 season. Carey regressed somewhat this past season, and often showed difficulty in protecting the quarterback's blindside against speed-rushing defensive ends. Shelton's release leaves the right tackle slot open again, and Carey is the most logical replacement.

I would bet Sporano has actually watched lots of tape of Jake Long, and watched him continuously get beat by speed-rushers...but at the college level.

rev kev
02-12-2008, 11:16 AM
OT first day :)

WISfinfan13
02-12-2008, 11:29 AM
I would have to agree that these cuts do not nessiarily mean we will take Jake Long with the first overall pick. I think our FO sees that there are many good OT in the draft. And there will be a guy with a first round grade available when we make the 32nd overall selection.

m i n o
02-12-2008, 11:39 AM
Dolphin moves could mean it'll be a Long draft
Posted by: J.D. Robinson on February 12, 2008 12:49 AM

Just some guy's opinion, but one that I tend to agree with:

On Monday, Miami's new regime began what is the first of what is expected to be many waves of turning current Dolphins into former ones. In doing so, the team might have tipped off what it's thinking entering April's NFL (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) draft. It appears that former offensive lineman and new head coach Tony Sparano isn't going to waste time molding a line in his image, and Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long might want to start looking for real estate in South Florida.
Four tackles were shown the door Monday by Miami general manager Jeff Ireland, including three who either played significant roles in 2007 or figured into the team's long-term plans during the recent past.

Obviously, there are many different directions the Dolphins can go with the first overall pick in the upcoming draft. If the Dolphins cannot trade down, then they are likely to select one of three players: LSU defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey, Boston College quarterback (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) Matt Ryan or Long. Even with Monday's release of Trent Green and Keith Traylor -- potentially paving the way for Ryan or Dorsey to respectively replace them -- the moves indicate that the 6-foot-7, 315-pound Long is the current favorite.

Sparano has probably reviewed the game tape from the 2007 campaign, and likely has come to the conclusion many in South Florida had around the middle of November: Vernon Carey is better suited to play tackle on the right side than the left. After coming along noticeably during 2005 and 2006, Carey was switched from right to left tackle by Cam Cameron before the 2007 season. Carey regressed somewhat this past season, and often showed difficulty in protecting the quarterback's blindside against speed-rushing defensive ends. Shelton's release leaves the right tackle slot open again, and Carey is the most logical replacement.

Drafting Long would also be a benefit to the advancement of John Beck. During the preseason, playing with and against third-stringers, Beck was able to move the Miami offense. When the regular season began, and first-team defensive lines began feasting on the below-average Miami offensive line, Beck struggled. Any hope that Beck can turn into a workable NFL thrower depends on whether he can gain confidence in his passing abilities, which will only happen if he's standing upright. Want to see the difference between a quarterback with time and one without? Go watch Tom Brady against the Giants (http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html#) in Week 17. Then go watch him again in the Super Bowl facing the same team.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html
one could also say the same for dorsey/ellis as 3 or four dt were released as well and it's early. alot of the first guys will be casualties of injury pronness/lack of talent.

jim1
02-12-2008, 12:07 PM
I really think this is overreacting.

This is a deep left tackle draft, they could just as easily be targeting a left tackle with pick 32 or later.

My other thought on this is, Jake Long is not an Orlando Pace, Johnathan Ogden, or Tony Boselli caliber prospect, so spending 1st overall money on him is questionable.

Obviously they would love to trade out of this spot I think, but if no deal is possible, it makes more sense to spend that kind of money on a QB, or can't miss guys like Dorsey or C. Long.

The truth is, there will be left tackles drafted later in this draft that have as much or more potential than Jake Long.

Potential don't pay the mortgage.

"You lose with potential. You win with performance."

Bill Parcells

swampfox
02-12-2008, 12:28 PM
I wont get into the RT or LT debate at this time but Jake Long isn't even the best OT in the draft. Ryan Clady is at the moment.

Spray Mucus
02-12-2008, 12:57 PM
The fact that Vernon Carey can play both OT spots, we won't have to worry about drafting a sure LT. There are 5 solid OT in this draft with first round grades.

Jake Long
Ryan Clady
Jeff Otah
Chris Williams
Gosder Cherilus

I'm thinking at least 1-2 should be sitting there at 32.... I have a feeling (if he's there) we might nab Cherilus... BP has history with BC linemen.

ChambersWI
02-12-2008, 01:00 PM
people know my stance on Long since I'm a Michigan fan. I definatly think too many people are in the mind set he can't play LT, when he's been a pretty dominant LT the last 2 years with very little talent on Michigan's OL (Adam Kraus is the only other upperclassman who will get drafted. Boren and Schilling could be good though). I would welcome the best player on my college team to my pro team, but he is not my first choice.

jim1
02-12-2008, 02:27 PM
The fact that Vernon Carey can play both OT spots, we won't have to worry about drafting a sure LT. There are 5 solid OT in this draft with first round grades.

Jake Long
Ryan Clady
Jeff Otah
Chris Williams
Gosder Cherilus

I'm thinking at least 1-2 should be sitting there at 32.... I have a feeling (if he's there) we might nab Cherilus... BP has history with BC linemen.

IF we pass on JLong and don't take Cherilius or Chris Williams at #32 I'll be pissed. Wiliams os more of a straight up LT, but I just have this thing for Cherilius, i think that he's going to be a good one.

MrTree
02-12-2008, 03:12 PM
I think Jake Long would represent the biggest mistake we could feasibly pick at #1

newlownorder
02-12-2008, 03:32 PM
To be honest you really could address the O-line if FA. Would love to see Wharton from Carolina and Starks from Pitt come over. Wharton would be LT, Starks RT and Carey moved into guard where many think he belongs. More likely you'll see Flozell at LT and possibly Faneca at G.

jim1
02-12-2008, 03:42 PM
I think Jake Long would represent the biggest mistake we could feasibly pick at #1

What if Merling or Campbell turn out to be better De's than CLong? What if Red Bryant and Pat Sims turn out to be better 3-4 NT's than Dorsey? There are a lot of variables, including FA. As much as I like JLong, there's OT talent available in rds 2-3, we just have to get some of it. JLong biggest mistake possible? I doubt it.

Spray Mucus
02-12-2008, 04:31 PM
I think Jake Long would represent the biggest mistake we could feasibly pick at #1

Glen Dorsey or bust right buddy! :hi5::up::Bradysack:

MrTree
02-12-2008, 05:07 PM
JLong biggest mistake possible? I doubt it.


Absolutely.

The candidates at #1
Jake Long
Glenn Dorsey
Chris Long
Matt Ryan

Jake Long will be platying RT in the NFL. His foot speed will not allow him to matchup to the speed rushers he will be seeing at the next level on the QBs blindside, Passing up the other guys for Jake Long is lunacy.

MrTree
02-12-2008, 05:08 PM
Glen Dorsey or bust right buddy! :hi5::up::Bradysack:


Dorsey's my favorite for #1 but I think Jake Long is absolutely the worst pick (except maybe for the occasional person who wants to throw Sedrick Ellis in there) at the #1 position.

jim1
02-12-2008, 06:04 PM
Absolutely.

The candidates at #1
Jake Long
Glenn Dorsey
Chris Long
Matt Ryan

Jake Long will be platying RT in the NFL. His foot speed will not allow him to matchup to the speed rushers he will be seeing at the next level on the QBs blindside, Passing up the other guys for Jake Long is lunacy.

We must have watched different Jake Longs this year then. He's fast and seems plenty mobile and athletic to me. Funny how he's rated so hightly AND as a stud LT prospect by so many, I guess that they're all a bunch of idiots. Case in point, Scott Wright from NFLDC:

1. Darren McFaddenJRRBArkansasElite talent who is destined to become one of the league's top rushers. 2. Glenn DorseySRDTL.S.U.Simply one of the best defensive tackle prospects we've seen in years. 3. Jake LongSROTMichiganA left tackle who is not quite Joe Thomas but is better than Levi Brown

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/rankings.html

Note that he has him playing LT. If he's a shade below Joe Thomas I can live with that. Are you sure that Dorsey (who is awesome by the way) is the type of big bodied grunt that we need at DT? Would we be better off with a Sims, Bryant or Rubin later in the draft?

Let's agree to disagree, because I just do not understand how you pidgeon hole a guy as talented determined as Jake Long is into the RT slot.

MrTree
02-12-2008, 06:19 PM
. Funny how he's rated so hightly AND as a stud LT prospect by so many, I guess that they're all a bunch of idiots. Case in point, Scott Wright from NFLDC:

1. Darren McFaddenJRRBArkansasElite talent who is destined to become one of the league's top rushers. 2. Glenn DorseySRDTL.S.U.Simply one of the best defensive tackle prospects we've seen in years. 3. Jake LongSROTMichiganA left tackle who is not quite Joe Thomas but is better than Levi Brown

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/rankings.html

Note that he has him playing LT. If he's a shade below Joe Thomas I can live with that. Are you sure that Dorsey (who is awesome by the way) is the type of big bodied grunt that we need at DT? Would we be better off with a Sims, Bryant or Rubin later in the draft?

Let's agree to disagree, because I just do not understand how you pidgeon hole a guy as talented determined as Jake Long is into the RT slot.


Straw man argument and appeal to authority. Rather than attacking my argument directly you set up a false argument (In this case that I am saying these scouts are idiots as you called it) that is not defensible. There are also plenty of scouts out there who will tell you the same thing I said. So since the scouts are not in perfect agreement we have to debate this on our own merits unless you can provide a scout that has been 100% correct in their past opinions and believe Long is a LT. In short, who cares what one scout says; others say what I am saying as well.

So in our debate I will tell you that Jake Long does indeed have a slow pivot on his big frame which he offsets with his wingspan and his strength. In the NFL these attributes won't be enough to make him a steady and dependable LT. And btw footwork is the single most important attribute to a LT. More important than strength, size, or speed. A LT without great footwork is like an airplane without great wings.

Carey was not really that bad at LT. Our problems were at guard and somewhat at RT. However our pass rush and rush defense were atrocious.

Glenn Dorsey = Greater prospect than Jake Long
Chris Long = Greater prospect than Jake Long
DT = Bigger need than LT
DE = Bigger need than LT.

Jake Long is not the guy for the Phins.