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View Full Version : Jake long Makes a lot of sense



realdolphin
02-12-2008, 03:53 PM
I just found a great article about recent trades and drafts .
it is by far the most inteligent writing i`ve read in the big tuna era that just started .

take a look guys and tell me your opinion . ................. http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21266.html

i agree big time with this article . i feel in my personal opinion that we had a miserable 1-15 season under cam , but we have to give him credit ( and former GM also ) for having a draft that actually made sense . satele was great find , ginn is going to have an interesting rol , booker is a solid back up rb , and beck with a good o line can move the chains , not even brady could do to much with the pass protection he had . take a look at the SB for instance .
we are talking at least 4 good picks ...something nice as a monster draft for us is coming and we may end up having a young powerful team .

Farmer
02-12-2008, 03:58 PM
with people saying he'll be a RT in the nfl, and parcells loving to take def guys, i still say C long or dorsey is the pick. hopefully its C long though!

Jake
02-12-2008, 04:00 PM
I agree with taking Jake Long 1 overall but the rest of that "article" is laughable at best.

texasPHINSfan
02-12-2008, 04:01 PM
with people saying he'll be a RT in the nfl, and parcells loving to take def guys, i still say C long or dorsey is the pick. hopefully its C long though!

exactly.

fishypete
02-12-2008, 04:02 PM
Right now you could take Ryan, either of the Long's, Dorsey, Ellis and still have made a great choice for the Dolphins.

My long shot being true Parcells type of player's would be DRC or C. Campbell in the middle of the first round.

Roman529
02-12-2008, 04:04 PM
I don't think we can take an O-lineman with the first overall pick unless he is another Jonathan Ogden or Orlando Pace. I think Chris Long or Dorsey is the pick.

SuperMarksBros.
02-12-2008, 04:07 PM
jake long, if the org. feels he is a franchise LT, would be an incredible pick. move carey to the right side, satale looks like a future start, add hadnot, and you have the making for a line that'll block for years.

you'll see how good most qb's and rb's can look behind a good line.

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 04:09 PM
based on logic jake long makes a lot of sense . satele , carey and long is a soild young foundation for a superb o-line . but i agree parcells is more D oriented in drafts .

fishypete
02-12-2008, 04:10 PM
I don't think we can take an O-lineman with the first overall pick unless he is another Jonathan Ogden or Orlando Pace. I think Chris Long or Dorsey is the pick.

If you consider that Jake Long is a road hog and it appears that the Dolphins offense will be run first again...he would fit the need. Dorsey if the Dolphins only use a 4-3 defense...otherwise he's a wasted pick.

SpaceMountain16
02-12-2008, 04:13 PM
Jake Long is the pick i want, if not then trade down. Again i think i'd love seeing an o-line anchored by Jake Long, Vernon Carey and Samson Satele for the next 10+ years with Ronnie Brown in the backfield. Especially under the coaching of a guy like Sparano who specializes in the offensive line area and should help our running attack flourish.

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 04:15 PM
If you consider that Jake Long is a road hog and it appears that the Dolphins offense will be run first again...he would fit the need. Dorsey if the Dolphins only use a 4-3 defense...otherwise he's a wasted pick.

exactly ...dorsey is better suited for a 4-3 . jake long will have more impact adding great talent to the o-line . since richmond webb we havent had a real impresive tackle . jake long will make satele and carey look even better .

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 04:17 PM
Jake Long is the pick i want, if not then trade down. Again i think i'd love seeing an o-line anchored by Jake Long, Vernon Carey and Samson Satele for the next 10+ years with Ronnie Brown in the backfield. Especially under the coaching of a guy like Sparano who specializes in the offensive line area and should help our running attack flourish.

amen to that . :hi5:

X-Pacolypse
02-12-2008, 04:18 PM
Jake Long makes a lot of sense at number one. Either him or Chris Long. I'm not sold on Dorsey or Matt Ryan at all.

DrunkenFan
02-12-2008, 04:26 PM
Taking Jake Long #1 overall is stupid on many levels. For starters, taking an offensive lineman that high is a huge risk, way more than a QB. Secondly, our offensive line is the least of our needs right now. We have a good nucleus of players that are just starting to get used to each other. More shake-ups will only set them back, and the line played very good all year with the exception of the rebellion they staged when Beck came in the game. Thirdly, if you look at the track record of LTs taken in the first round in the past 20 years or so, waiting until later rounds to address the position makes infinitely more sense. LTs drafted in the first round, more often than not, are either converted to RT eventually because they can't man the position, or are released and wash out, or are traded.

Every year some oaf from the Big 11 comes out that supposedly will be the anchor LT of the future for their team and ends up doing jack ****. You have a better chance of finding your LT in a later round, there's no question.

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 04:32 PM
i dont know about that . richmond webb was a first rounder . and jake long is a two time all american , he is gone in the first round . a risk would be ryan in the first round .

BlueFin
02-12-2008, 04:38 PM
Right now you could take Ryan, either of the Long's, Dorsey, Ellis and still have made a great choice for the Dolphins.

My long shot being true Parcells type of player's would be DRC or C. Campbell in the middle of the first round.

I wish DRC would slip to 32 but its probably hopeless now.

Drafting Dorsey or C Long and coming back with DRC at 32 would be an amazing way to start the draft.

BlueFin
02-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Taking Jake Long #1 overall is stupid on many levels. For starters, taking an offensive lineman that high is a huge risk, way more than a QB. Secondly, our offensive line is the least of our needs right now. We have a good nucleus of players that are just starting to get used to each other. More shake-ups will only set them back, and the line played very good all year with the exception of the rebellion they staged when Beck came in the game. Thirdly, if you look at the track record of LTs taken in the first round in the past 20 years or so, waiting until later rounds to address the position makes infinitely more sense. LTs drafted in the first round, more often than not, are either converted to RT eventually because they can't man the position, or are released and wash out, or are traded.

Every year some oaf from the Big 11 comes out that supposedly will be the anchor LT of the future for their team and ends up doing jack ****. You have a better chance of finding your LT in a later round, there's no question.

See, I'm just not convinced he can excell in the NFL at LT, he is not an Orlando Pace, John Ogden, Boselli caliber player, and the reasons you state are real reasons for concern.

Robert Gallery in recent memory is a perfect example.

I have no doubt Jake can play RT in the NFL, but thats just not worth a #1 overall.

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 05:03 PM
well any player you select is a risk . not only the first rounders . i have no question jake long can play in the nfl . how good he will be i dont know . but in all honesty i dont see a player like him in his position later in the draft ..... great D players can be grabbed in middle rounds or second rounds . i dont see a wasted pick if we select jake long even if he is not a monster tackle in the nfl . the biggest salary for an olineman wont be as huge as if you select ryan in the first . jake long is the wisest option to me .

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 05:04 PM
well any player you select is a risk . not only the first rounders . i have no question jake long can play in the nfl . how good he will be i dont know . but in all honesty i dont see a player like him in his position later in the draft ..... great D players can be grabbed in middle rounds or second rounds . i dont see a wasted pick if we select jake long even if he is not a monster tackle in the nfl . the biggest salary for an olineman wont be as huge as if you select ryan in the first . jake long is the wisest option to me .

in fact chris long also could be a good pick . but i prefer jake .

fishypete
02-12-2008, 05:08 PM
Taking Jake Long #1 overall is stupid on many levels. For starters, taking an offensive lineman that high is a huge risk, way more than a QB. Secondly, our offensive line is the least of our needs right now. We have a good nucleus of players that are just starting to get used to each other. More shake-ups will only set them back, and the line played very good all year with the exception of the rebellion they staged when Beck came in the game. Thirdly, if you look at the track record of LTs taken in the first round in the past 20 years or so, waiting until later rounds to address the position makes infinitely more sense. LTs drafted in the first round, more often than not, are either converted to RT eventually because they can't man the position, or are released and wash out, or are traded.

Every year some oaf from the Big 11 comes out that supposedly will be the anchor LT of the future for their team and ends up doing jack ****. You have a better chance of finding your LT in a later round, there's no question.

There's some risk in every player in the draft...and if the Dolphins were going to be like the Pats and throw almost every down...I may agree with you....but the Dolphins won't be a passing team...they will be a running team first and often...and Long fits that bill...in a big way.
As far as tackles in the draft...I'll bet that most left tackles and franchise tackles are first round picks...always has been and will be, in the future. We have had enough Alibi's...since Webb...have we not?

jim1
02-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Taking Jake Long #1 overall is stupid on many levels. For starters, taking an offensive lineman that high is a huge risk, way more than a QB. Secondly, our offensive line is the least of our needs right now. We have a good nucleus of players that are just starting to get used to each other. More shake-ups will only set them back, and the line played very good all year with the exception of the rebellion they staged when Beck came in the game. Thirdly, if you look at the track record of LTs taken in the first round in the past 20 years or so, waiting until later rounds to address the position makes infinitely more sense. LTs drafted in the first round, more often than not, are either converted to RT eventually because they can't man the position, or are released and wash out, or are traded.

Every year some oaf from the Big 11 comes out that supposedly will be the anchor LT of the future for their team and ends up doing jack ****. You have a better chance of finding your LT in a later round, there's no question.

Yeah, Joe Thomas really blew chow, didn't he?

jim1
02-12-2008, 05:17 PM
See, I'm just not convinced he can excell in the NFL at LT, he is not an Orlando Pace, John Ogden, Boselli caliber player, and the reasons you state are real reasons for concern.

Robert Gallery in recent memory is a perfect example.

I have no doubt Jake can play RT in the NFL, but thats jusgt not worth a #1 overall.

Let's see:
6-7
315-330 lbs.
5.00-5.05 40 yd. dash
47 reps 225 lbs.
high motor, high character guy
will rip DE's faces off
very good feet

And what's not to like?
Get off of this "can't play LT" crap already- if he's a shade below Joe Thomas I'd be all over him like flies on cow crap. Shelton, Alabi, Toledo- good bye and good riddance. This guy will make our TEAM better- synergy all the way, Beck's/Ginn's/RB's/RW's best friend. The bodyguard and enforcer who allows everyone else the opportunity to do their thing. Hell they could go OT round one AND rd 2 or rd 3 and I'll light up a stogie. It is time NOW to fix this cursed OL of ours.

MrTree
02-12-2008, 05:28 PM
Let's see:
6-7
315-330 lbs.
5.00-5.05 40 yd. dash
47 reps 225 lbs.
high motor, high character guy
will rip DE's faces off
very good feet

And what's not to like?
Get off of this "can't play LT" crap already- if he's a shade below Joe Thomas I'd be all over him like flies on cow crap. Shelton, Alabi, Toledo- good bye and good riddance. This guy will make our TEAM better- synergy all the way, Beck's/Ginn's/RB's/RW's best friend. The bodyguard and enforcer who allows everyone else the opportunity to do their thing. Hell they could go OT round one AND rd 2 or rd 3 and I'll light up a stogie. It is time NOW to fix this cursed OL of ours.


It's not crap...it's the truth. He has a slow pivot on that large frame. Gholston gave a textbook illustration on how to abuse him and get after the qb. At the next level he will see too many guys with too much quickness for him to man the blindside. He's a planet theory guy who will end up being a very good RT for many years at inflated wages.

I am a line first guy. I would love it if there was an Orlando Pace in this draft. There is not.

jim1
02-12-2008, 05:37 PM
It's not crap...it's the truth. He has a slow pivot on that large frame. Gholston gave a textbook illustration on how to abuse him and get after the qb. At the next level he will see too many guys with too much quickness for him to man the blindside. He's a planet theory guy who will end up being a very good RT for many years at inflated wages.

I am a line first guy. I would love it if there was an Orlando Pace in this draft. There is not.

He gave up one sack all year to a guy that will be drafted in the top 10. Again, his footwork isn't D-Brick or Joe Thomas caliber, but calling him a very good OT is a disservice to him in my opinion. Chris Williams and Cherilius- they have some good feet, too. Good options at #32.

DrunkenFan
02-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Yes, how easy it is to bring up Ogden, Pace and Joe Thomas, and forget about the multiple of other LTs taken in the first that have been major disappointments.

As well, this isn't about how every player is a risk, which is true, but there's a measure of risk. LT is the hardest position to play in the pros outside of QB, and again, if you look at the history of the draft, you'll see that the majority of these tackles taken in the first round either end up playing RT, are moved, or wash out.

DOC33
02-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Let's see:
6-7
315-330 lbs.
5.00-5.05 40 yd. dash
47 reps 225 lbs.
high motor, high character guy
will rip DE's faces off
very good feet

And what's not to like?
Get off of this "can't play LT" crap already- if he's a shade below Joe Thomas I'd be all over him like flies on cow crap. Shelton, Alabi, Toledo- good bye and good riddance. This guy will make our TEAM better- synergy all the way, Beck's/Ginn's/RB's/RW's best friend. The bodyguard and enforcer who allows everyone else the opportunity to do their thing. Hell they could go OT round one AND rd 2 or rd 3 and I'll light up a stogie. It is time NOW to fix this cursed OL of ours.

JL makes sense for a variety of different reasons. Whether or not he can play LT is probably a 50/50 proposition, but really as loaded as this draft is with OT's there are probably only 2 maybe 3 that look like sure fire LT prospects in Clady and Williams. Otah and Collins look like about 50/50 propositions as LT prospects as well. Of that group JL looks to be the best NFL ready RT for sure and is as least as good of a LT currently as any of the others. His ceiling might not be as high as say Clady but his bust factor is not as high either. Yes he had trouble with Golston but frankly we havent seen Clady against that caliber of player so we dont know. The other factor to consider is that Carey is going into his contract year and currently MIA has no one in the pipeline that looks to be a starting caliber OT. If they were to draft someone like a Collins or Richardson ( guys that are going to take some development ) as some have proposed here we could go into 09 not knowing if we have any starting OT's on the left or right side. At least with Long you know that you have one of those positions locked up. Yes the number 1 would tie a lot of money up in an OT which is not really the ultimate solution but on the other hand you would have to wiegh the cost of bringing in a couple of FA ot's next year. I am not totally sold on drafting JL #1 but I do think it merits consideration.

MrTree
02-12-2008, 05:57 PM
He gave up one sack all year to a guy that will be drafted in the top 10. Again, his footwork isn't D-Brick or Joe Thomas caliber, but calling him a very good OT is a disservice to him in my opinion. Chris Williams and Cherilius- they have some good feet, too. Good options at #32.


Sacks are not a good barmometer to judge an OT buy. It's better to look at them on a play by play basis. Most years there is at least one tackle that has not given up a sack there last year (Bryant McKinney didn't give on up in his college career.) It isn't a transferrable statistic however.

When you look at Long the first thing that jumps out is that he's a mammoth of a man. He swallows DEs up and beats them down. However how do you beat size? Speed. That massive frame takes some real time to swing around and position. His pivot is too slow for the next level. In college there are a paucity of quality DEs who can rush with speed and power. One dirty little secret in football is that the QB position isn't the only one where there isn't enough real talent to fill the spots. DEs are hard to find too.

However, in the NFL Jake will find himself matched up against the Dwight Freeneys and Shawn Marions of the league. There are too many teams with quality guys who can bring it with speed in the NFL for Jake to be a LT. He just doesn't physically match up. LTs that can excel in power blocking for the running game are a plus, but to make the money they have to be outstanding pass protectors first. Jake Long is a right tackle in the NFL.

NorFlaFin
02-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Per Mel Kiper, OL are the safest 1 rd pick. The worst? DL

jim1
02-12-2008, 06:27 PM
Sacks are not a good barmometer to judge an OT buy. It's better to look at them on a play by play basis. Most years there is at least one tackle that has not given up a sack there last year (Bryant McKinney didn't give on up in his college career.) It isn't a transferrable statistic however.

When you look at Long the first thing that jumps out is that he's a mammoth of a man. He swallows DEs up and beats them down. However how do you beat size? Speed. That massive frame takes some real time to swing around and position. His pivot is too slow for the next level. In college there are a paucity of quality DEs who can rush with speed and power. One dirty little secret in football is that the QB position isn't the only one where there isn't enough real talent to fill the spots. DEs are hard to find too.

However, in the NFL Jake will find himself matched up against the Dwight Freeneys and Shawn Marions of the league. There are too many teams with quality guys who can bring it with speed in the NFL for Jake to be a LT. He just doesn't physically match up. LTs that can excel in power blocking for the running game are a plus, but to make the money they have to be outstanding pass protectors first. Jake Long is a right tackle in the NFL.
MAN OF STEEL: Senior tackle Long could be best ever at Michigan

December 31, 2007
BY MARK SNYDER
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

ORLANDO -- A trophy sits in a prominent area of the Michigan football weight room.
Small but heavy, a steel anvil sits atop a base, ringed with the names of its conquerors. There aren't many listed, which only adds to the intrigue.

U-M strength and conditioning coach Mike Gittleson uses the anvil as a goal for upperclassmen to achieve, a testament to their power. If you can pick up the anvil, your name goes on the base.
There was a stretch at the beginning of this decade when new names were sparse. Then one day a couple years ago, a young man with massive hands simply snagged it like a toy.
When Jake Long reached down and grabbed that anvil after more than a year of watching others try and fail, he literally lifted off the career of a Michigan legend.
"It weighs 150-some pounds," said Long, the left tackle from Lapeer who will conclude his career in Tuesday's Capital One Bowl. "You've got to grip it and pick it up."
The first time he lifted the anvil, Long was impressed with himself. But Gittleson, who has been at Michigan since 1978, was nowhere to be found. So when Long finally proved it for the record (in front of Gittleson and others) his name became a permanent fixture on the base.
Long, who made his first start as a Wolverine against San Diego State in 2004, has set a standard at Michigan rarely matched in the program's illustrious history. His achievements place him among the all-time greats.
A consensus All-America the past two years, Long became just the 11th Wolverine to be named in consecutive years, the first since safety Tripp Welbourne (1989-90). He was just the fifth two-time Big Ten offensive lineman of the year.
"I can appreciate it," said U-M fifth-year lineman Adam Kraus, who has played alongside Long every year and is one of Long's closest friends. "It's definitely a benefit to be playing with him on the line because you know he's not going to get beat very often, if at all. You definitely learn from him."
Long allowed only one sack this year, against Ohio State. He has incredible technique for a 6-foot-7, 315-pounder. And Long set an impressive standard each time Michigan ran a play, not committing a penalty all season.
That's the steadiness Long's teammates take for granted and now simply accept. But it's the physical, freakish moves that drop their jaws.
"I can remember in camp, running the Michigan mile and he's up front with the linebackers and running backs and wide receivers. He's a flat athlete," U-M defensive tackle Terrance Taylor said. "He's embarrassing (to the other linemen). On gassers, he's always the first lineman down and back. He's over 300 pounds, he weighs so much and is so big yet when we run the golf course he's in the top five finishing. He's beating Mike Hart and Mario Manningham, he beats these guys in the mile."

Kraus has no hesitation when asked for his most impressive Long moment.
"When he did 47 reps at 225 (pounds) before the 2006 season," Kraus said, recalling the roar that leapt from the weight room that day. "Everybody got pretty pumped up. How often is that done? The record at the (NFL) combine is 45. That just shows you what he can do. I think he can if he gets his strength back up he can (break it)."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071231/SPORTS06/712310383/1048

MrTree
02-12-2008, 06:30 PM
MAN OF STEEL: Senior tackle Long could be best ever at Michigan

December 31, 2007
BY MARK SNYDER
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

ORLANDO -- A trophy sits in a prominent area of the Michigan football weight room.
Small but heavy, a steel anvil sits atop a base, ringed with the names of its conquerors. There aren't many listed, which only adds to the intrigue.

U-M strength and conditioning coach Mike Gittleson uses the anvil as a goal for upperclassmen to achieve, a testament to their power. If you can pick up the anvil, your name goes on the base.
There was a stretch at the beginning of this decade when new names were sparse. Then one day a couple years ago, a young man with massive hands simply snagged it like a toy.
When Jake Long reached down and grabbed that anvil after more than a year of watching others try and fail, he literally lifted off the career of a Michigan legend.
"It weighs 150-some pounds," said Long, the left tackle from Lapeer who will conclude his career in Tuesday's Capital One Bowl. "You've got to grip it and pick it up."
The first time he lifted the anvil, Long was impressed with himself. But Gittleson, who has been at Michigan since 1978, was nowhere to be found. So when Long finally proved it for the record (in front of Gittleson and others) his name became a permanent fixture on the base.
Long, who made his first start as a Wolverine against San Diego State in 2004, has set a standard at Michigan rarely matched in the program's illustrious history. His achievements place him among the all-time greats.
A consensus All-America the past two years, Long became just the 11th Wolverine to be named in consecutive years, the first since safety Tripp Welbourne (1989-90). He was just the fifth two-time Big Ten offensive lineman of the year.
"I can appreciate it," said U-M fifth-year lineman Adam Kraus, who has played alongside Long every year and is one of Long's closest friends. "It's definitely a benefit to be playing with him on the line because you know he's not going to get beat very often, if at all. You definitely learn from him."
Long allowed only one sack this year, against Ohio State. He has incredible technique for a 6-foot-7, 315-pounder. And Long set an impressive standard each time Michigan ran a play, not committing a penalty all season.
That's the steadiness Long's teammates take for granted and now simply accept. But it's the physical, freakish moves that drop their jaws.
"I can remember in camp, running the Michigan mile and he's up front with the linebackers and running backs and wide receivers. He's a flat athlete," U-M defensive tackle Terrance Taylor said. "He's embarrassing (to the other linemen). On gassers, he's always the first lineman down and back. He's over 300 pounds, he weighs so much and is so big yet when we run the golf course he's in the top five finishing. He's beating Mike Hart and Mario Manningham, he beats these guys in the mile."

Kraus has no hesitation when asked for his most impressive Long moment.
"When he did 47 reps at 225 (pounds) before the 2006 season," Kraus said, recalling the roar that leapt from the weight room that day. "Everybody got pretty pumped up. How often is that done? The record at the (NFL) combine is 45. That just shows you what he can do. I think he can if he gets his strength back up he can (break it)."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071231/SPORTS06/712310383/1048

You seem to post a link or a quote for every response. Who cares about the PR rah rah stuff you can dig up? I can look back three years and get you similar creampuff pieces on Robert Gallery. It proves nada.

Jake Long physically projects to be a RT in the NFL. The skill set is not geared for continuous pass pro. Not a guy worth the #1.

adamprez2003
02-12-2008, 06:32 PM
It's not crap...it's the truth. He has a slow pivot on that large frame. Gholston gave a textbook illustration on how to abuse him and get after the qb. At the next level he will see too many guys with too much quickness for him to man the blindside. He's a planet theory guy who will end up being a very good RT for many years at inflated wages.

I am a line first guy. I would love it if there was an Orlando Pace in this draft. There is not.

Great point. I think Gholston destroyed any illusions anybody had of this guy possibly becoming a LOT. Strictly a ROT and if anyone is dropping out of the top five its going to be him or McFadden

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 06:36 PM
mrtree ...you made a nice analysis about footwork , but lets consider that pace , ogden and our beloved webb are and were mamuths also . jake long has something i like which is consistency and his footwork is only going to get better .,j long , satele and carey would be a very young and great foundation for an Oline of the future .

The Aqua Crush
02-12-2008, 07:27 PM
He could have also mentioned how well Derek Anderson did with the addition to the Browns line with Joe Thomas. one Great left side player gave anderson the ability to play.

Not sure if Jake Long is that guy, but if we went that route without a trade down available I would not be upset, if Jake is that good. he's right, if beck is going to be able to be confident and effective he needs a solid line, plain and simple.

realdolphin
02-12-2008, 08:08 PM
He could have also mentioned how well Derek Anderson did with the addition to the Browns line with Joe Thomas. one Great left side player gave anderson the ability to play.

Not sure if Jake Long is that guy, but if we went that route without a trade down available I would not be upset, if Jake is that good. he's right, if beck is going to be able to be confident and effective he needs a solid line, plain and simple.

yes it is that simple . marino had stephenson , simms and webb ...wwooaah what a line . beck needs something better than that as he is no marino . so satele , carey , hadnot and long seems like a young great line for some years .

jim1
02-12-2008, 08:46 PM
You seem to post a link or a quote for every response. Who cares about the PR rah rah stuff you can dig up? I can look back three years and get you similar creampuff pieces on Robert Gallery. It proves nada.

Jake Long physically projects to be a RT in the NFL. The skill set is not geared for continuous pass pro. Not a guy worth the #1.

Of course it doesn't prove anything. Neither does your incessant rambling about how JLong has a slow pivot and projects only to RT. Your negative rah rah stuff. There's really no point to us discussing this subject any longer.

2413fanphins
02-12-2008, 09:27 PM
I haven't heard a scout yet, proclaim that jake long is projected to be a RT..

Like mentioned before, his footwork that everyone is bellyaching about can only get better, thats what you pay coaches for.

I don't remember VG dominating Jake long all that well, only one sack comes to mind off hand but I could be wrong. It's happened before.

#1dolphinsfan
02-12-2008, 09:28 PM
I dont like the idea of Drafting a RT that high

BlueFin
02-12-2008, 10:50 PM
It's not crap...it's the truth. He has a slow pivot on that large frame. Gholston gave a textbook illustration on how to abuse him and get after the qb. At the next level he will see too many guys with too much quickness for him to man the blindside. He's a planet theory guy who will end up being a very good RT for many years at inflated wages.

I am a line first guy. I would love it if there was an Orlando Pace in this draft. There is not.

Some fans of college football just don't recognize the enormous difference between playing left tackle in college and playing it in the NFL.

I also wish he was an Orlando Pace, but I strongly feel he will end up being a potential pro bowl right tackle, but not on the left.

And again, that just isn't worth #1 overall money.

lbmclean_sj
02-12-2008, 11:01 PM
Maybe Clady will rise to the top

he fits the LT mold

DrunkenFan
02-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Parcells will be going defense if he can't get out of that pick, and it will probably be Chris Long. I just can't see the Ryan or Jake Long thing playing out at all.

TexanPhinatic
02-12-2008, 11:25 PM
Jake Long is not wirth the #1 spot, but if Matt Ryan is gone when KC picks, its good money he goes there.

Jake IS a LT guys, face it. Yeah Gholston had a good game against him. And thats about it ......
The guy is a monster, a devasting run blocker, a solid pass protector. Might need some help for speed rushes, but Sparano is an OL guy, if anyone can do it its him. Long is being projected as just below Joe Thomas, and higher than Levi Brown-hes not dropping. Should we trade with ATL or someone in that range Long will be a huge possibility.
I dont know if I can see any other LTs going top 10 really. Some solid potential, just not really sure if its top 10. Remember there was alot of fan speculation on Joe Toledo and then he fell deep into the first.

If we stay #1 it wont be Jake, if we end up around 5 it very very well could be.

MrTree
02-12-2008, 11:35 PM
mrtree ...you made a nice analysis about footwork , but lets consider that pace , ogden and our beloved webb are and were mamuths also . jake long has something i like which is consistency and his footwork is only going to get better .,j long , satele and carey would be a very young and great foundation for an Oline of the future .


These are all big guys yes, but they were not encumbered with the enormous frame Long has. Long has great speed for a man his size and will probably run a terrific 40 for a big man, but I think the cone drill is going to hit his stock. No matter of training is going to change the fact that he has a lot of meat to put into motion and there are going to be guys at the next level that will have a step on him every snap.

lbmclean_sj
02-12-2008, 11:41 PM
The guy is a monster, a devasting run blocker, a solid pass protector.

funny you just described a RT

the LT needs to be more athletic, and he doesn't need to be a great run blocker

if we are gonna pick a guy #1 he should be a guy who will not need help with speed rushers(ie Walter Jones/Jason Peters), Long ain't that guy

209Mason
02-13-2008, 12:44 AM
I'm all about O'line first as well... but I have to agree with MrTree, Bluefin, and others.... Jake Long is not #1 material. There have only ever been 2 tackles taken number one overall... and only one (Orlando Pace) since the 1960's. We have to ask if we honestly think he's that good. Is he good enough to be the 3rd tackle drafted #1 overall in the history of the NFL???... I think not. I think it's consensus that Joe Thomas last year was better, and he did not go #1. That said, I agree with many others on he, he's not worth the pick or the money, we should look at D or trade down.

jim1
02-13-2008, 08:04 AM
I'm all about O'line first as well... but I have to agree with MrTree, Bluefin, and others.... Jake Long is not #1 material. There have only ever been 2 tackles taken number one overall... and only one (Orlando Pace) since the 1960's. We have to ask if we honestly think he's that good. Is he good enough to be the 3rd tackle drafted #1 overall in the history of the NFL???... I think not. I think it's consensus that Joe Thomas last year was better, and he did not go #1. That said, I agree with many others on he, he's not worth the pick or the money, we should look at D or trade down.

#1, #2, #3- who gives a crap. It's about what's best for our team and what options are available in any given year. This is a deep draft, but no Carson Palmers or Peyton mannings are to be had this year- not a marquee name type of draft.

209Mason
02-13-2008, 10:22 AM
]#1, #2, #3- who gives a crap[/b]. It's about what's best for our team and what options are available in any given year. This is a deep draft, but no Carson Palmers or Peyton mannings are to be had this year- not a marquee name type of draft.

I'm going to take a wild stab and say that the Dolphin's salary cap gives a crap... a big crap.

Think about it. as you've said, this is a deep draft with no marquee names... so then why take a shot in the dark at number one who everyone pretty much agrees is not j. Ogden quality, then have to pay him number one money, when we could trade down and pick Otah or someone else up later on?

That said, I'm not completely sure ANYONE on that draft board is worthy of the number one pick this year. Maybe after the combine someone will stand out, maybe Long does impress the heck out of everyone... but until then, I don't like it.

jim1
02-13-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm going to take a wild stab and say that the Dolphin's salary cap gives a crap... a big crap.

Think about it. as you've said, this is a deep draft with no marquee names... so then why take a shot in the dark at number one who everyone pretty much agrees is not j. Ogden quality, then have to pay him number one money, when we could trade down and pick Otah or someone else up later on?

That said, I'm not completely sure ANYONE on that draft board is worthy of the number one pick this year. Maybe after the combine someone will stand out, maybe Long does impress the heck out of everyone... but until then, I don't like it.

I wasn't referring to the salary cap, but rather to a player being taken #1 overall vs. #2 or #3. There isn't a clear cut stud in this draft. If we could get JLong to sign on for Joe Thomas #3 money I'd be all for it. Again, I see him as a LT.

knoxpk
02-13-2008, 10:49 AM
Not that I am oppsed to OL or even Long in particular in the 1st round, I just think that defense is far and away the way to go.
Even if we score 10 points a game, if we have an overwhelming, destructive, stingy defense we can be in EVERY single game.
I like the idea of getting the OTHER long or even Dorsey with our pick and grabbbing yet ANOTHER quality defensive player with the 32nd pick. Then we go and work on some more offense.
All that is dependant on free agency of course.

emocomputerjock
02-13-2008, 10:53 AM
I wasn't referring to the salary cap, but rather to a player being taken #1 overall vs. #2 or #3. There isn't a clear cut stud in this draft. If we could get JLong to sign on for Joe Thomas #3 money I'd be all for it. Again, I see him as a LT.

Wrong. Dorsey and Chris Long are both "studs" worthy of the #1 pick.

jim1
02-13-2008, 10:57 AM
Wrong. Dorsey and Chris Long are both "studs" worthy of the #1 pick.

There's no Carson Palmer type of player in the draft. Long and Dorsey are damned good, but not top of the line marquee #1 overall players.

emocomputerjock
02-13-2008, 11:00 AM
There's no Carson Palmer type of player in the draft. Long and Dorsey are damned good, but not top of the line marquee #1 overall players.


Wrong. Dorsey and Chris Long are both "studs" worthy of the #1 pick.

Wrong. Dorsey and Chris Long are both "studs" worthy of the #1 pick.

No matter how you attempt to rail against it, it's still the truth.

Ghetti13
02-13-2008, 11:52 AM
Jake Long is just not that good. Much like it will come to light that Darren McFadden is just not that good. Both should go in the first round, but both are far from elite.

Glenn Dorsey is the best player in this draft. Period.

The only other players I could stomach at No.1 are Chris Long and Matt Ryan.

I feel strongly that Jeff and Bill have eyes that work well enough to feel the same way.

jim1
02-13-2008, 11:54 AM
Wrong. Dorsey and Chris Long are both "studs" worthy of the #1 pick.

No matter how you attempt to rail against it, it's still the truth.

When I want your opinion I'll give it to you.

emocomputerjock
02-13-2008, 11:55 AM
When I want your opinion I'll give it to you.

Good thing you're getting schooled in the facts then son. Raise your hand before you speak out of turn.

cnc66
02-13-2008, 12:03 PM
alright.. lets stop the personal comments and stick to the subject gentlemen.

jim1
02-13-2008, 12:13 PM
Good thing you're getting schooled in the facts then son. Raise your hand before you speak out of turn.

Thank God I'm not your son. Don't even bother raising your hand until you have something intelligent to offer. Taking a crap is a more intelligent pastime than having a discussion with you.

clbrazee
02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I've liked Jake Long all along. I feel he's the best pick for Miami at #1. He would provide a bookend tackle for the left, so Carey could be a bookend on the right. Put Satele in the middle and Hadnot as one of the guards. That just leaves the other guard. What would be a heck of an OL that would be for the next 7-10 years.

I personally don't think our defense was as bad as they looked last year. I don't think Capers ran the right scheme for the personnel we had. Yes we need a young DT. A DE in round 2 or 3 would be nice.

realdolphin
02-13-2008, 08:21 PM
I've liked Jake Long all along. I feel he's the best pick for Miami at #1. He would provide a bookend tackle for the left, so Carey could be a bookend on the right. Put Satele in the middle and Hadnot as one of the guards. That just leaves the other guard. What would be a heck of an OL that would be for the next 7-10 years.

I personally don't think our defense was as bad as they looked last year. I don't think Capers ran the right scheme for the personnel we had. Yes we need a young DT. A DE in round 2 or 3 would be nice.

yes . i feel the same way , it doesnt matter if long is as good as orlando pace or j ogden . the kid is a rock a stud and is a great player , carey is still young , satele was a steal ( thanks cam ) add to that the mega frame of jake long , plus hadnot and another great guard and we have a young and great line for mr.maser to coach , that is not starting from scratch and has enormous potential .

rent this space
02-14-2008, 01:51 AM
Some fans of college football just don't recognize the enormous difference between playing left tackle in college and playing it in the NFL.

I also wish he was an Orlando Pace, but I strongly feel he will end up being a potential pro bowl right tackle, but not on the left.

And again, that just isn't worth #1 overall money.

Isn't the difference between playing left tackle in college and playing it in the NFL the same for every player? Jake Long has all the physical tools to play LT at this level. someone questioned his strength- 47 reps at 225? are you kiddin me?
Let's not forget who is conducting this draft. Bill Parcells loves huge linemen and Tony Sparano is an offensive line coach. that tells me they first that they understand the importance of building the O-line, and also, if they pick him- you know it's the right choice. these guys know linemen very well.
Furthermore, releasing Shelton and Alabi leaves this team thin at tackle. they may have some free agents targeted, and I wouldn't even rule out early smoke-screens, but that also points to drafting at least one tackle.
Is Jake Long as good as Orlando Pace? maybe not, but how many guys in this league are? The money you pay is the money you pay. If this guy does end up a pro-bowler, his rookie contract will be a bargain.
One more thing, most would agree Jake Long is an outstanding run-blocker. From what I read, this team will run about twice as much as pass. Why not get a true smash-mouth tackle?
If they take Chris Long or even Glenn Dorsey, I would be very happy as well, I'm just saying Jake Long wouldn't be a bad choice.

emocomputerjock
02-14-2008, 10:23 AM
#1, #2, #3- who gives a crap. It's about what's best for our team and what options are available in any given year. This is a deep draft, but no Carson Palmers or Peyton mannings are to be had this year- not a marquee name type of draft.

Once again, Dorsey and Chris Long are those marquee type players you're saying don't exist. They're both superlative talents who can dominate not only at the college level and the professional level. Since they're both at positions of need *and* are the best players in the draft bar none, they're the best pick for our team.

fishypete
02-14-2008, 12:30 PM
Dorsey will only fit if the Dolphins stay with a 4-3. I rather have ellis otherwise.