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View Full Version : Mike Mayock on Matt Ryan; compared to Big Ben



burghPhinFan
02-12-2008, 11:01 PM
from NFL network last night:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806a38a9
I'd imbed this but I don't know the tags. I was hoping it would do it itself like over on Celtkin

Madman29
02-12-2008, 11:16 PM
Good lets keep hyping him up so that everyone expects us to take him and then we will have teams like the Falcons trading us there entire draft for him.

TexanPhinatic
02-12-2008, 11:19 PM
It would be really nice if Ryan could pull away from Brohm and everyone else even further down. Some teams in the top 10 really need QB help (Atl, KC, Balt) and we might be able to finagle something with one of them.

Still, we could surprise everyone and just outright take the guy, there seems to be a good amount of opposition to this, but its really not a farfetched idea.

Madman29
02-12-2008, 11:22 PM
It would be really nice if Ryan could pull away from Brohm and everyone else even further down. Some teams in the top 10 really need QB help (Atl, KC, Balt) and we might be able to finagle something with one of them.

Still, we could surprise everyone and just outright take the guy, there seems to be a good amount of opposition to this, but its really not a farfetched idea.


I wouldn't say it is farfetched but I dont think we really want to spend the number one pick on him. I think we need to do all we can to trade out of this pick and aquire more picks. I like Matt Ryan but like I said we have a lot of needs right now and I have faith in Beck.

TexanPhinatic
02-12-2008, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't say it is farfetched but I dont think we really want to spend the number one pick on him. I think we need to do all we can to trade out of this pick and aquire more picks. I like Matt Ryan but like I said we have a lot of needs right now and I have faith in Beck.

Trading would be optimal yes, but if it just doesnt work we will have some tough choices to make. At the least, he inspires more confidence (in me) than Alex Smith and Aaron Rogers did when we were drafting at #2.

This is just one of those drafts where despite a good amount of talent, there is no clear cut #1, we just have to do the best we can.

Madman29
02-12-2008, 11:32 PM
I agree, I would take him over Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers anyday. Your right there is no clear cut #1 but hopefully the combine will change that. But yeah i agree with you.

#1dolphinsfan
02-12-2008, 11:43 PM
I agree, I would take him over Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers anyday. Your right there is no clear cut #1 but hopefully the combine will change that. But yeah i agree with you.
how do u know u would take him over Aaron Rodgers he hasnt played in any games except like one or two and he has played pretty good

lbmclean_sj
02-12-2008, 11:47 PM
Alex Smith was a gimmick offense QB

he is gonna get killed next year

Madman29
02-12-2008, 11:56 PM
how do u know u would take him over Aaron Rodgers he hasnt played in any games except like one or two and he has played pretty good


Exactly so neither has pro experience and I would take Matt Ryan over him. Im not saying that Ryan is better because nobody knows that yet. I am saying that if Rodgers and Ryan were in the same draft i would prefer Ryan.

General Tso
02-12-2008, 11:58 PM
I agree, I would take him over Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers anyday. Your right there is no clear cut #1 but hopefully the combine will change that. But yeah i agree with you.

You'd take Ryan over Rodgers because he's taller? Other than that, it's Rodgers by a mile IMO.

General Tso
02-12-2008, 11:58 PM
Exactly so neither has pro experience and I would take Matt Ryan over him. Im not saying that Ryan is better because nobody knows that yet. I am saying that if Rodgers and Ryan were in the same draft i would prefer Ryan.

Because... ?

Madman29
02-13-2008, 12:01 AM
You'd take Ryan over Rodgers because he's taller? Other than that, it's Rodgers by a mile IMO.


I didnt say i would take Ryan because he is taller... I think Ryan is a better QB than Rodgers and Smith. I mean if your comparing Rodgers now vs Ryan now then yea it would make more sense to take Rodgers because he has been learning a pro system and has been mentored by Brett Favre.

Madman29
02-13-2008, 12:03 AM
Matt Ryan has the intangibles that all the great QB's have. Now im not saying by any means that Ryan will be a great QB but he certaintly has the potential otherwise he wouldnt even be considered for the #1 pick.

Madman29
02-13-2008, 12:04 AM
btw general tso is absolutely delicious...

General Tso
02-13-2008, 12:14 AM
Matt Ryan has the intangibles that all the great QB's have. Now im not saying by any means that Ryan will be a great QB but he certaintly has the potential otherwise he wouldnt even be considered for the #1 pick.

At this time in 2005 many people projected Rodgers at #1 to SF and look where he ended up falling.

So far the only thing I've heard about Ryan is "intangibles". How about a QB with tangibles, i.e. results? There is no comparison to Rodgers' results in college compared to Ryan's one solid, though unspectacular, season. Give me a QB that throws for a high completion percentage, good TD-INT ratio, sets several college records and puts up big performances in big games over a QB with "intangibles" any day.

BTW... what exactly are the intangibles that Ryan has and Rodgers didn't? Rodgers is more of the fiery competitor than Ryan appears to be. Ryan throws a pick and laughs about it on the sidelines (see this year's bowl game), Rodgers throws 'em (though much less often than Ryan I might add) and has the look you see in a Manning, Marino, etc that says "I'm going to go right back at that SOB next time out, how dare he pick off one of my passes!". (Disclaimer: not comparing Rodgers' game to those hall of famers, just saying he has a similar demeanor after making a mistake).

General Tso
02-13-2008, 12:19 AM
btw general tso is absolutely delicious...

Off topic... but o so true.

#1dolphinsfan
02-13-2008, 12:22 AM
Exactly so neither has pro experience and I would take Matt Ryan over him. Im not saying that Ryan is better because nobody knows that yet. I am saying that if Rodgers and Ryan were in the same draft i would prefer Ryan.
oh ok i get what u are saying i would Rather have Rodgers though i think he will be a better QB once the old man Brett Favre Retires

Madman29
02-13-2008, 12:39 AM
At this time in 2005 many people projected Rodgers at #1 to SF and look where he ended up falling.

So far the only thing I've heard about Ryan is "intangibles". How about a QB with tangibles, i.e. results? There is no comparison to Rodgers' results in college compared to Ryan's one solid, though unspectacular, season. Give me a QB that throws for a high completion percentage, good TD-INT ratio, sets several college records and puts up big performances in big games over a QB with "intangibles" any day.

BTW... what exactly are the intangibles that Ryan has and Rodgers didn't? Rodgers is more of the fiery competitor than Ryan appears to be. Ryan throws a pick and laughs about it on the sidelines (see this year's bowl game), Rodgers throws 'em (though much less often than Ryan I might add) and has the look you see in a Manning, Marino, etc that says "I'm going to go right back at that SOB next time out, how dare he pick off one of my passes!". (Disclaimer: not comparing Rodgers' game to those hall of famers, just saying he has a similar demeanor after making a mistake).



Well i certaintly would not draft a QB based off of his throwing ability. IMO that would be like drafting Daunte Culpepper, he has a tremendous arm but doesn't have the intangibles. He can't read defenses, feel the presence in the pocket, etc. Rodgers is a good QB, I am not bashing him in any way. Ryan did not have much talent on offense around him so he was forced to make plays and when QB's are forced to do that with little talent around them, turnovers become a problem. Rodgers had JJ Arrington at RB and a couple decent recievers and being in a prestigious college like CAL he had overall better talent around him. For the record I think Rodgers is better than Smith and should have been drafted #1 overall.

Casas9425
02-13-2008, 12:47 AM
Alex Smith was a gimmick offense QB

he is gonna get killed next year
you could also say the same thing about john beck he played a similar offense at byu

sd_finfan
02-13-2008, 01:09 AM
It seems like Brohm is flying under the radar a lot around here. He has all the tools, and more talent than Matt Ryan, but all the talk around here is about Matt Ryan. I believe Brohm has as much talent as anyone that has come out in the last five years. He has the arm strength, and throws a nice deep ball. He is an extremely smart qb, and can make the intermediate throws as well. If he and Louisville didn't have such a rough year he would be the clear cut #1 qb in the draft. When we drafted Marino he was rated just as high as Elway his junior year, but he didn't have a great senior year, and I see a lot of similarities the way he slipped and the way Brohm is slipping. I am not saying Brohm is Dan Marino by any means, and I am not saying we draft him, but I will guarantee he has a good career better than what Ryan will have. It all depends on how the Tuna wants to build the fins, and what they think of Beck in the end though.

General Tso
02-13-2008, 02:26 AM
Well i certaintly would not draft a QB based off of his throwing ability. IMO that would be like drafting Daunte Culpepper, he has a tremendous arm but doesn't have the intangibles. He can't read defenses, feel the presence in the pocket, etc. Rodgers is a good QB, I am not bashing him in any way. Ryan did not have much talent on offense around him so he was forced to make plays and when QB's are forced to do that with little talent around them, turnovers become a problem. Rodgers had JJ Arrington at RB and a couple decent recievers and being in a prestigious college like CAL he had overall better talent around him. For the record I think Rodgers is better than Smith and should have been drafted #1 overall.

Since when is CAL a prestigious football program compared to Boston College? Also, Rodgers might have had less talent at WR his junior year than Ryan had at BC (didn't have as good of a defense either).

As for your first statements... huh? You wouldn't draft a QB for his ability to throw the football? That's like saying you wouldn't judge a designated hitter for his ability to hit a baseball. In my crazy world, the ability to accurately throw a football to the correct team is the most important thing to go by.

And I'm still waiting for you to define what these "intangibles" are that Ryan has and Rodgers didn't.

General Tso
02-13-2008, 02:28 AM
It seems like Brohm is flying under the radar a lot around here. He has all the tools, and more talent than Matt Ryan, but all the talk around here is about Matt Ryan. I believe Brohm has as much talent as anyone that has come out in the last five years. He has the arm strength, and throws a nice deep ball. He is an extremely smart qb, and can make the intermediate throws as well. If he and Louisville didn't have such a rough year he would be the clear cut #1 qb in the draft. When we drafted Marino he was rated just as high as Elway his junior year, but he didn't have a great senior year, and I see a lot of similarities the way he slipped and the way Brohm is slipping. I am not saying Brohm is Dan Marino by any means, and I am not saying we draft him, but I will guarantee he has a good career better than what Ryan will have. It all depends on how the Tuna wants to build the fins, and what they think of Beck in the end though.

Agreed. This non-expert also has Brohm rated ahead of Ryan. If only Brohm had the intangibles! :)

JT#1
02-13-2008, 08:45 PM
i think Brohm will end up being a better pro quarterback than Matt Ryan. He throws to many picks, his TD/Int ratio was average(especially considering this past season was his best) and his completion % was slightly below average.

alen1
02-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Rodgers over Ryan in a heartbeat IMO. Rodgers impressed me vs Dallas this past year on Thanksgiving Day I think it was. They lost but he led a pretty good comeback.

lbmclean_sj
02-13-2008, 09:33 PM
you could also say the same thing about john beck he played a similar offense at byu

well I certainly wouldn't take John Beck with the first pick in the draft

NorFlaFin
02-13-2008, 09:40 PM
Agreed. This non-expert also has Brohm rated ahead of Ryan. If only Brohm had the intangibles! :)


Brohm biggest problem is that his backup(Hunter Caldweld???) subbed for him and put up similar numbers.

Whispers of "system QB".

I'd draft Brohm in the second and let him and Beck battle it out.

dlockz
02-13-2008, 09:48 PM
Brohm biggest problem is that his backup(Hunter Caldweld???) subbed for him and put up similar numbers.

Whispers of "system QB".

I'd draft Brohm in the second and let him and Beck battle it out.

Brohm will not be there in the second

PhinsRock
02-13-2008, 11:04 PM
I put a lot of stock in anything Mayock says, respect him a lot. But, no way we take a QB this high, not Parcells' style. More likely he trades down IMHO. BTW that's an awesome link, thanks for posting it.

JT#1
02-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Brohm biggest problem is that his backup(Hunter Caldweld???) subbed for him and put up similar numbers.

Whispers of "system QB".

I'd draft Brohm in the second and let him and Beck battle it out.
i would think its hard to be a system QB when he has played in 2 different systems the past 2 seasons.

unifiedtheory
02-14-2008, 03:22 AM
Brohm will not be there in the second

I'm willing to bet he is, the guys stock is crashing and burning. He could be looked at as the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft (Ryan, Henne, Flacco, Woodsen) and I don't see 5 quarterbacks going in the first round.

JT#1
02-14-2008, 09:54 AM
Henne,flacco and woodson arent seen as better than brohm, esspecially woodson whose stock has been dropping like a rock

Zanno
02-14-2008, 12:52 PM
pro football weekly is really talking up Ryan also

VT Dolphan
02-15-2008, 12:03 AM
Brohm biggest problem is that his backup(Hunter Caldweld???) subbed for him and put up similar numbers.

Whispers of "system QB".

I'd draft Brohm in the second and let him and Beck battle it out.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they ran a pro-style offense at Louisville. I think Petrino ran an NFL style offense before going to the pros, and his replacement Steve Kragthorpe also ran pro-style.

I think Ryan will be a decent QB, but I'm not buying the Big Ben comparisons. I think Brohm has more potential to become a very good QB.

As for the backup, Hunter Cantwell, a lot of draft sites have him down as being a very high pick in 2009 and one of the top QB prospects, so it may just be that Louisville has a ton of talent at the QB position. Kind of a chicken and the egg type situation, don't know if the system is making the QB's or the QB's are making the system.

emocomputerjock
02-15-2008, 10:51 AM
Mayock has always been high on Ryan, and has been making this comparison for months now. He's just doing his thing.

Dolfan_Noles
02-15-2008, 11:34 AM
I think that Flacco should draw more comparisons to Big Ben than Ryan. His prototypical size and arm strength are the things that remind me most of Ben.

I watched A LOT of ACC football this year, and Matt Ryan is going to be a solid NFL quarterback, I've said that all along. But, that said, I really think that we need to give John Beck a chance.

I couldn't imagine if we had the #1 pick last year and took Jamarcus Russell what people on this board would be saying right now. He played atrociously. Since everyone loves YouTube so much, search for Jamarcus Russell videos from last year. He played waaaay worse than Beck. People would be clamoring for his replacement if he was drafted in the same spot as Beck. Everyone seems to assume that he will have more potential in the long-term just because he was drafted higher.

Patience is a virtue. It's hard to be patient in the NFL where teams go from everything to nothing overnight and vice-a-versa, but that doesn't mean that it's time to give up on John Beck.

Yes, the last regime should have drafted Brady Quinn (maybe). But, that doesn't mean that John Beck is not the guy for the future. He played with no talent around him, which has been mentioned sooo many times on here. No O-Line, injured RBs, a rookie receiver, a guy that was already cut, and a #1 receiver that was traded away. No TEs either. He made some plays and he'll continue to mature. Next year, if it doesn't work out, THEN we look at QB.

Or, we can take Flacco at 32 if he's still around. ;)

Vertical Limit
02-15-2008, 11:49 AM
He's compared to Roethlisberger? Eww stay away. Roethlisberger is overrated, and dissapears in the playoffs. Don't even mention the Super Bowl year, Fiedler behind center could have won that Super Bowl for the Steelers.