PDA

View Full Version : Jets Robertson Deal Falls Through



Cuzinfinny
03-03-2008, 07:09 PM
ROBERTSON DEAL ISN'T HAPPENING

For the second time since Friday, a deal that the Bengals thought they'd make to upgrade a subpar defense has fallen apart.

Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com reports that the trade between the Jets and the Bengals for New York defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson is off.

The sticking point was Cincy's insistence that Robertson re-do a contract that is set to pay him $9.8 million in 2008.

Brown42000
03-03-2008, 07:10 PM
Lmao

Yessir
03-03-2008, 07:11 PM
Going to kill their cap...They have to cut him.

And I'd take a flyer on Robertson too...He's a bust as now, but there is still upside. Plenty.

LarryFinFan
03-03-2008, 07:11 PM
ROBERTSON DEAL ISN'T HAPPENING

For the second time since Friday, a deal that the Bengals thought they'd make to upgrade a subpar defense has fallen apart.

Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com reports that the trade between the Jets and the Bengals for New York defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson is off.

The sticking point was Cincy's insistence that Robertson re-do a contract that is set to pay him $9.8 million in 2008.

Uh ho....Can you spell cap issues.. ???

dlockz
03-03-2008, 07:12 PM
This might be a disaster if they used some of that cap money for thier signings. I still think if they have time they can get something of value for him.

SR 7
03-03-2008, 07:13 PM
lmaoo sucks for NYJ cuz they were goin to get a 3rd n 5th this is lookin to be one hell of an offseason for em if they pulled i toff but it aint happenin.

TRADE JT WE NEED MORE PICKS! where is speilman when u need him. i want that 2nd and 3rd pick.

NJFINSFAN1
03-03-2008, 07:16 PM
Going to kill their cap...They have to cut him.

And I'd take a flyer on Robertson too...He's a bust as now, but there is still upside. Plenty.


The reason they are trading him is because he is not a 3-4 lineman!

alan huber
03-03-2008, 07:17 PM
i dont understand where are they going to get the money to pay this years rookies .. not to mentions next year they wont have any cap to work with .. good for them

elandre
03-03-2008, 07:18 PM
:woot: Here we go! The jets have time but no way they get what they were askin for now...

Thanks Pace ;)

MiamiDolfan85
03-03-2008, 07:18 PM
ROBERTSON DEAL ISN'T HAPPENING

For the second time since Friday, a deal that the Bengals thought they'd make to upgrade a subpar defense has fallen apart.

Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com reports that the trade between the Jets and the Bengals for New York defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson is off.

The sticking point was Cincy's insistence that Robertson re-do a contract that is set to pay him $9.8 million in 2008.

whats even mroe amusing is that they guaranteed Woddy $9M...and signed Pace $22M guaranteed...so in all,$31M is automatically gone.And the Rob etson deal would have supported the Pace deal,but it fell threw.So,if the Jets aren't in the red,their definately broke.I guarantee their shopping the pick,I don't even think they'll be able to sign anybody.Man,the Jets made some pretty stupid thing since the FA period.As is Faneca and Jenkins were'nt enough,they try to go out and get Woody and Pace.Somebody has to tell the Jets that this isn't Madden...you can just add everyone,and no suffer consequences.

LOL....I bet their starting to panic,because the Pace deal hasn't even been a full 24 hrs. yet,and already karma is starting to show its b*tchy side...

Aqua4Ever04
03-03-2008, 07:19 PM
Now the Bengals just have to pray Sedrick Ellis will fall to them in the draft (which won't happen.) Missing on Shaun Rogers killed them because he wound up going to their rival in Cleveland and now the Bengals are still stuck with a huge on their defensive line. What a disaster.

84needs1000yds
03-03-2008, 07:20 PM
Going to kill their cap...They have to cut him.

And I'd take a flyer on Robertson too...He's a bust as now, but there is still upside. Plenty.

They do not have to cut him he is just not going to be traded to the Bengals

alan huber
03-03-2008, 07:24 PM
i mean how many cap did the jetsys had to work with in the first place?? more then 60 million???? HEYYYYYY ENJOY PACE ,FANECA, MR INJURY HIMSELF(Jenkins) ...... they are all your draft picks salaries ..

MiamiDolfan85
03-03-2008, 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuzinfinny http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1062369839#post1062369839)
ROBERTSON DEAL ISN'T HAPPENING

For the second time since Friday, a deal that the Bengals thought they'd make to upgrade a subpar defense has fallen apart.

Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com reports that the trade between the Jets and the Bengals for New York defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson is off.

The sticking point was Cincy's insistence that Robertson re-do a contract that is set to pay him $9.8 million in 2008.

whats even more amusing is that they guaranteed Woody $9M...and signed Pace $22M guaranteed...so in all,$31M is automatically gone.And the Robertson deal would have supported the Pace deal,but it fell through.So,if the Jets aren't in the red,their definately broke.I guarantee their shopping the pick,I don't even think they'll be able to sign anybody.Man,the Jets made some pretty stupid moves since the FA period.As is Faneca and Jenkins were'nt enough...which was good,then they try to go out and get Woody and Pace.Somebody has to tell the Jets that this isn't Madden...you can just add everyone,and no suffer consequences or clear your cap saleries or even restart.

LOL....I bet their starting to panic,because the Pace deal hasn't even been a full 24 hrs. yet,and already karma is starting to show its Please do not circumvent the profanity filter. side...

rev kev
03-03-2008, 07:40 PM
he he

Dfan06
03-03-2008, 07:43 PM
haha nice to hear

invertedboarder
03-03-2008, 07:43 PM
this is good news

zackmandude63
03-03-2008, 07:47 PM
what does it mean if they cant salvage some cap space, does it mean that they will forfeit some of those signings?

MiamiDolfan85
03-03-2008, 07:49 PM
what does it mean if they cant salvage some cap space, does it mean that they will forfeit some of those signings?

no...it just means their over their cap...hence,they cant sign or trade anyone until they cut someone that would make a cap hit...

FINSFAN2781
03-03-2008, 07:53 PM
Lets watch it all fall apart now. ****in stupid Jets.

Roman529
03-03-2008, 07:54 PM
I was visiting Gang Green (the Jets fan forum) and they were all talking about how their cap guru was the best in the business (sorry I cannot think of his name). Sounds to me like the Jets have overspent. :lol:

noyz
03-03-2008, 07:55 PM
lmao....and so begins the destruction of a team..they can't sign any draft picks until they are under the cap

SamIam
03-03-2008, 07:57 PM
stupid Jets :sidelol:

DolfanChris06
03-03-2008, 07:58 PM
I want Jake Long, lol great news they overpayed for Pace, i swear didnt like him out of Wake Forest i thought he was a bust pick as in Eddie Moore.

MelbournePhin
03-03-2008, 07:58 PM
im sure they will find another taker for robertson

HaRdKoReXXX
03-03-2008, 07:59 PM
Does anyone else sense desparation in Jersey B? They're spending cash in NY like they just got a fat tax-return. Mangenius is gotta be under intense pressure from the brass after last seasons tank fest.

Gotta be rough when a team that plays in your stadium wins a title...not to mention in the sports media capital of the world...

schisno
03-03-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm sure they could have loaded the front of the contracts meaning that year after year the cap hit would be less in guaranteed money. Or maybe they expect the Cap to keep growing like it did this offseason giving everyone more money than they really know what to do with.

Jets, 49ers = New overspending Redskins

LarryFinFan
03-03-2008, 08:08 PM
It's always nice when the Jests buffoon something, but it's not over yet and Pace no matter how you put it was a good signing for them...

Ludacris
03-03-2008, 08:12 PM
LOL

I thought so...
geeez...Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, Faneca, Damien Woody and now they can't trade Dwayne Robertson.....LOL they have painted themselves into a corner.

cdz12250
03-03-2008, 08:13 PM
Wow, man. For real? FANTASTIC!!! I'm going right over to the Jets board to gloat!

jlfin
03-03-2008, 08:15 PM
It's always nice when the Jests buffoon something, but it's not over yet and Pace no matter how you put it was a good signing for them...

Perhaps, but I don't think he's worth anywhere near 22 million in guaranteed money.
I wanted the Phins to sign him, but I got a little nervous when I heard they offered a contract guaranteeing 20 million up front.
I'm kid of glad we didn;t break the bank on the guy. He's only had one good season and he doesn't seem like an elite OLB to me.

SQuinn17
03-03-2008, 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuzinfinny http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1062369839#post1062369839)
ROBERTSON DEAL ISN'T HAPPENING

For the second time since Friday, a deal that the Bengals thought they'd make to upgrade a subpar defense has fallen apart.

Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com reports that the trade between the Jets and the Bengals for New York defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson is off.

The sticking point was Cincy's insistence that Robertson re-do a contract that is set to pay him $9.8 million in 2008.

whats even more amusing is that they guaranteed Woody $9M...and signed Pace $22M guaranteed...so in all,$31M is automatically gone.And the Robertson deal would have supported the Pace deal,but it fell through.So,if the Jets aren't in the red,their definately broke.I guarantee their shopping the pick,I don't even think they'll be able to sign anybody.Man,the Jets made some pretty stupid moves since the FA period.As is Faneca and Jenkins were'nt enough...which was good,then they try to go out and get Woody and Pace.Somebody has to tell the Jets that this isn't Madden...you can just add everyone,and no suffer consequences or clear your cap saleries or even restart.

LOL....I bet their starting to panic,because the Pace deal hasn't even been a full 24 hrs. yet,and already karma is starting to show its *****y side...sweet!

DolfanDaveInATX
03-03-2008, 09:01 PM
I thought all NFL teams had to be below the salary cap before the draft in order to make picks?

In any event, the Jest had better strike gold in this draft or they're going to be really bad for a really long time. They grossly overpaid for Pace, and some LDE or LOLB from the AFC East will go to the Pro Bowl after playing against Woody twice.

Jets81
03-03-2008, 09:02 PM
Ouch, thats horrible news.

Cannonboy
03-03-2008, 09:13 PM
Very nice indeed.

Tpaddle
03-03-2008, 09:14 PM
haha good stuff

X-Pacolypse
03-03-2008, 09:30 PM
I hope the Jets are happy about the money they dished out. If their aquisitions tank, they're going to be REALLY bad for a long, long, long, long time.

finfan54
03-03-2008, 09:39 PM
Hey, lets give it up for the Jets. They got some really good players for the next 5 years or so....

Too bad none of them are QB's.

Cant wait for Gholsten or someone to hold out on them looking for bank but then again.....where is the bank?

MiamiDolfan85
03-04-2008, 05:45 PM
man....all that waiting for Pace to sign was bad at first...cause it wasn't with MIA...but now Im happy as hell

i got da juice
03-04-2008, 05:52 PM
no one will trade for d rob because they no if they dont trade just wait and they can sign him when they cut him. he can play our de, dolphins look for him if he is cut

dolpns13
03-04-2008, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuzinfinny http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1062369839#post1062369839)
ROBERTSON DEAL ISN'T HAPPENING

For the second time since Friday, a deal that the Bengals thought they'd make to upgrade a subpar defense has fallen apart.

Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com reports that the trade between the Jets and the Bengals for New York defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson is off.

The sticking point was Cincy's insistence that Robertson re-do a contract that is set to pay him $9.8 million in 2008.

whats even more amusing is that they guaranteed Woody $9M...and signed Pace $22M guaranteed...so in all,$31M is automatically gone.And the Robertson deal would have supported the Pace deal,but it fell through.So,if the Jets aren't in the red,their definately broke.I guarantee their shopping the pick,I don't even think they'll be able to sign anybody.Man,the Jets made some pretty stupid moves since the FA period.As is Faneca and Jenkins were'nt enough...which was good,then they try to go out and get Woody and Pace.Somebody has to tell the Jets that this isn't Madden...you can just add everyone,and no suffer consequences or clear your cap saleries or even restart.

LOL....I bet their starting to panic,because the Pace deal hasn't even been a full 24 hrs. yet,and already karma is starting to show its *****y side...


Robertson is scheduled to make almost 10 million.. :sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:... I dont think JT is even scheduled to make that much.... HAHAHA Loser Jets!

Great news man.. Thanks!

TonySporanoTuna
03-04-2008, 05:58 PM
We should bring Robertson in for a 5th or 6th rounder to play end on the line. He runs a 4.85 and would be good at rushing the passer out of a 3-4 as an end. I can see him doing great things if we get him for the end spot. He is a little bigger than most, but we could get him to either slim down a little bit or just play big.

HugeFinFan
03-04-2008, 06:07 PM
The Jets are trying to trade him because he can't play DE (or NT) in their 3-4. Why would he all of a sudden be able to play DE here in a same defense?

Bonedoc7777
03-04-2008, 06:11 PM
robertson is not a bad player, he is a 4-3 DT right, i think he may be talented enough to be in the DT rotation in a 3-4 but not the main guy, he is going to want big money so he wont fit here

jetsman
03-04-2008, 06:56 PM
After reading the comments in this thread,it has becomes obvious that no one on this board understands how the cap hit on such contracts is really paid out.When you sign someone to a $20 million dollar deal like Pace's,for six years,the bonus money is spread out over the six year life span of the contract.Thus,$20 million divided by six years equals around $3.5 million for the NEXT SIX YEARS.We are only paying Pace $3.5 million plus a low base salary for this season and the next five.

Trust me,the Jets have LOTS of money left to sign more free agents and our draft picks.It's just wishful thinking we are over the cap.We had almost as much money as you guys to start free agency,the only difference is we are actually using it for a change.

TexanPhinatic
03-04-2008, 06:58 PM
He sucks no thanks. Do we have a 6th this year still? Thought that went to Ferguson. The 5th is gone as well from the Green trade.

Besides, DE is not something we need really. We have Vonnie on one end and Starks on the other, with Wright and Roth to back them up. Not worth absorbing that fat contract.

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 06:58 PM
After reading the comments in this thread,it has becomes obvious that no one on this board understands how the cap hit on such contracts is really paid out.When you sign someone to a $20 million dollar deal like Pace's,for six years,the bonus money is spread out over the six year life span of the contract.Thus,$20 million divided by six years equals around $3.5 million for the NEXT SIX YEARS.We are only paying Pace $3.5 million plus a low base salary for this season and the next five.

Trust me,the Jets have LOTS of money left to sign more free agents and our draft picks.It's just wishful thinking we are over the cap.We had almost as much money as you guys to start free agency,the only difference is we are actually using it for a change.


DOnt try and use logic on some of them, they will just laugh and say that we suck and we overpay. Very good way to break it down.:up:

BiggDolphin
03-04-2008, 07:03 PM
The real kicker is that Robertson isn't going to redo his deal. He is set to make 9.8 millions this year and of course he hasn't played up to that amount at all so the Jets will have a hard time trying to find someone to take him with his current salary. Good luck Gang Green!!!

Da Phinishisher
03-04-2008, 07:03 PM
Dolphins fans won't have to say anything in a few years when the Jest are trying to move these great acquisitions because they don't fit your new coach's scheme.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:07 PM
Dolphins fans won't have to say anything in a few years when the Jest are trying to move these great acquisitions because they don't fit your new coach's scheme.
Manigini isn't going anywhere.We've had less new coaches in the last ten years than the Fins too:lol:

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:08 PM
Dolphins fans won't have to say anything in a few years when the Jest are trying to move these great acquisitions because they don't fit your new coach's scheme.


You obviously do not pay attention, we are dumping players that dont fit the system, we are grabbing guys that fit the system.

Da Phinishisher
03-04-2008, 07:13 PM
Why do you think your team went nuts in free agency?

DESPERATION

Sorry to break the new to ya, but the "Mangenius" is grabbing at straws and unless he turns it around there, he gone.

And what do you guys do with Kerry Rhoades and your young players coming due when you can't afford to match offers??? Can only franchise one player at a time. Enjoy your FA

Tureo
03-04-2008, 07:14 PM
im sure they will find another taker for robertson
I am sure someine will take DRob and they will have to cut some players before the draft. I don't think they would have to shop their #1 because they could always release someone. Does anyone have updated cap info on the Jets. Regardless of the numbers their team looks better than ours on paper at this point. Hate to say it.

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:15 PM
Why do you think your team went nuts in free agency?

DESPERATION

Sorry to break the new to ya, but the "Mangenius" is grabbing at straws and unless he turns it around there, he gone.

And what do you guys do with Kerry Rhoades and your young players coming due when you can't afford to match offers??? Can only franchise one player at a time. Enjoy your FA


LOL!! Keep dreaming the dream man, funny how fans on a 1-15 team can run their mouths so much.

Geforce
03-04-2008, 07:15 PM
After reading the comments in this thread,it has becomes obvious that no one on this board understands how the cap hit on such contracts is really paid out.When you sign someone to a $20 million dollar deal like Pace's,for six years,the bonus money is spread out over the six year life span of the contract.Thus,$20 million divided by six years equals around $3.5 million for the NEXT SIX YEARS.We are only paying Pace $3.5 million plus a low base salary for this season and the next five.

Trust me,the Jets have LOTS of money left to sign more free agents and our draft picks.It's just wishful thinking we are over the cap.We had almost as much money as you guys to start free agency,the only difference is we are actually using it for a change.According to ESPN,
Calvin Pace's contract is reported to be 6-yr $42 million, $22 million guaranteed and a signing bonus of $20 million. Pace will be paid $26 million over the first three years of the contract. This makes him one of the highest paid linebackers in NFL history.

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:15 PM
I am sure someine will take DRob and they will have to cut some players before the draft. I don't think they would have to shop their #1 because they could always release someone. Does anyone have updated cap info on the Jets. Regardless of the numbers their team looks better than ours on paper at this point. Hate to say it.


They just cut Clement and signed a backup CB.

Da Phinishisher
03-04-2008, 07:19 PM
if you come to a Dolphins board and try to crow, then realize the truth hurts too much, so you have to revert to bashing last years record, then by all means run that weak game of yours.
Problem is years from now it will get harder and harder to reference 1-15.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:19 PM
Why do you think your team went nuts in free agency?

DESPERATION

Sorry to break the new to ya, but the "Mangenius" is grabbing at straws and unless he turns it around there, he gone.

And what do you guys do with Kerry Rhoades and your young players coming due when you can't afford to match offers??? Can only franchise one player at a time. Enjoy your FA

Rhodes will get his new deal after the draft this spring.Most of our young guys are under contract.That's why the Jets fight so hard to get 5 or 6 year deals in place after the draft.We are in great shape for YEARS to come.

Hey (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/member.php?u=5600) BleedinGreenNC,I just noticed you're from North Carolina.I moved here about 14 years ago myself.I live in Statesville,NC.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:21 PM
According to ESPN,
Calvin Pace's contract is reported to be 6-yr $42 million, $22 million guaranteed and a signing bonus of $20 million. Pace will be paid $26 million over the first three years of the contract. This makes him one of the highest paid linebackers in NFL history.
That's quite correct.It doesn't refute my prior statement about the way the contract is paid out though.

Geforce
03-04-2008, 07:23 PM
That's quite correct.It doesn't refute my prior statement about the way the contract is paid out though.
You said you were paying him a low base salary. What exactly is that low base salary you speak of?

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:24 PM
I am sure someine will take DRob and they will have to cut some players before the draft. I don't think they would have to shop their #1 because they could always release someone. Does anyone have updated cap info on the Jets. Regardless of the numbers their team looks better than ours on paper at this point. Hate to say it.
We are still around $10 or $11 million under the cap WITH Robertsons huge salary.When we trade him we free up another $8 million to play with.We will be quite comfortable even if we keep Robertson for the whole season.It's NO problem........:woot:

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:25 PM
if you come to a Dolphins board and try to crow, then realize the truth hurts too much, so you have to revert to bashing last years record, then by all means run that weak game of yours.
Problem is years from now it will get harder and harder to reference 1-15.


Weak game? Problem is that all that i have been seeing is post bashing other teams choices on here, and that Miami's choices have been all great. What i do notice is that when one of your fan seems to be objective on their teams picks, as well as the Jet's picsk, they get belittled and bashed by their own teams fans. Record aside, we both sucked last year, nobody is going to know if a team made a bad decision until the end of the next season.

By the way, i have been a member here for a long time, i know how this place works, and i happen to be friends with a bunch of FIns fans, dont try and bait, not going to work.

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:26 PM
Rhodes will get his new deal after the draft this spring.Most of our young guys are under contract.That's why the Jets fight so hard to get 5 or 6 year deals in place after the draft.We are in great shape for YEARS to come.

Hey BleedinGreenNC,I just noticed you're from North Carolina.I moved here about 14 years ago myself.I live in Statesville,NC.


DIdnt know that! Might have to get a group of us together and go see a game!

afishfan
03-04-2008, 07:30 PM
You obviously do not pay attention, we are dumping players that dont fit the system, we are grabbing guys that fit the system.

You are correct, very similar to us (ferguson trade). I do think you guys are much improved. However, two HUGE question marks with all that money given out. For one Jenkins might fit as a NT, but he hasn't played it, and he hasn't been able to stay healthy. You gave up two draft picks for him AND gave him a ****load of money. Woody has been a guard his whole career and was a swinging door for defensive ends getting to the quarterback at tackle last year - so why is he suddenly going to be an upgrade at RT? Faneca is a good signing - but you again gave him a TON of cash and he is 31. The jets CANNOT EVER be any good until you have a QUARTERBACK. Vilma is a GREAT linebacker and you gave him away because he no longer fits.

I would even go so far as to say the Dolphins will be a better team next year - because I have more faith in our quarterbacks than your team.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:31 PM
You said you were paying him a low base salary. What exactly is that low base salary you speak of?
Most contracts are imaginary numbers that are never reached because the base salaries are backloaded with HUGE amounts of cash that the player will never actually get paid.He is probably scheduled to make around $10 million per year in base salary in the final two years of that deal,which is $20 million.
The team will either renegotiate that deal around year 4 or cut the player with no significant cap penalty at that time,other than the remaining prorated bonus money.The deal is actually for the guaranteed potion and nothing more really.That means we will actually pay him in the neighborhood of around $26-28 million for this deal.

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:32 PM
You are correct, very similar to us (ferguson trade). I do think you guys are much improved. However, two HUGE question marks with all that money given out. For one Jenkins might fit as a NT, but he hasn't played it, and he hasn't been able to stay healthy. You gave up two draft picks for him AND gave him a ****load of money. Woody has been a guard his whole career and was a swinging door for defensive ends getting to the quarterback at tackle last year - so why is he suddenly going to be an upgrade at RT? Faneca is a good signing - but you again gave him a TON of cash and he is 31. The jets CANNOT EVER be any good until you have a QUARTERBACK. Vilma is a GREAT linebacker and you gave him away because he no longer fits.

I would even go so far as to say the Dolphins will be a better team next year - because I have more faith in our quarterbacks than your team.


I also question the amount of money that we gave out, but hey, lets see what happens. WE DO NEED A QB!! Spot on with that one!:up:

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:34 PM
DIdnt know that! Might have to get a group of us together and go see a game!

Sounds like a plan to me!:hi5:

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:36 PM
I also question the amount of money that we gave out, but hey, lets see what happens. WE DO NEED A QB!! Spot on with that one!:up:

I'm not sure about the QB thing.I think we need to see what Clemens can do behind a decent offensive line.It's hard for any Qb to throw from their back,just ask Tom Brady!:lol:

Da Phinishisher
03-04-2008, 07:37 PM
I have respect for your acquisition of talent, not trying to bait at all, but does all that guaranteed money accurately represent the talent you acquired? of course not, no team outright wins during FA in terms of value. The Jets have chosen to throw that money around so that is why the jets are catching some flak at the moment

Geforce
03-04-2008, 07:39 PM
Most contracts are imaginary numbers that are never reached because the base salaries are backloaded with HUGE amounts of cash that the player will never actually get paid.He is probably scheduled to make around $10 million per year in base salary in the final two years of that deal,which is $20 million.
The team will either renegotiate that deal around year 4 or cut the player with no significant cap penalty at that time,other than the remaining prorated bonus money.The deal is actually for the guaranteed potion and nothing more really.That means we will actually pay him in the neighborhood of around $26-28 million for this deal.
So you were just speculating that he has a low base salary? I generally don't have a problem with you or anyone else speculating but don't try to make it sound like it is a fact when you really don't know.

The salary cap won't matter in three years anyway if the owners opt out of the current CBA.

BleedinGreenNC
03-04-2008, 07:39 PM
I have respect for your acquisition of talent, not trying to bait at all, but does all that guaranteed money accurately represent the talent you acquired? of course not, no team outright wins during FA in terms of value. The Jets have chosen to throw that money around so that is why the jets are catching some flak at the moment


Just like you guys getting crap for Porter last year.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:40 PM
I have respect for your acquisition of talent, not trying to bait at all, but does all that guaranteed money accurately represent the talent you acquired? of course not, no team outright wins during FA in terms of value. The Jets have chosen to throw that money around so that is why the jets are catching some flak at the moment
We understand that as well.What some may not realize is that with the cap increasing as it has over the past few seasons,these contracts will seem like a bargain in a couple of years,just watch and see.Remember when the Vikings paid Steve Hutchinson that $49 million dollar contract that piad him $7 million per year?THAT is a bargain for that caliber player,looking at it two years later.That's point that some front offices are starting to realize.

SF Dolfan
03-04-2008, 07:42 PM
Truthfully, as much as I hate the Jets, my concern about all their moves and the ramifications on their cap are really secondary. I thought PAce would've been a nice addition, but I'm glad we didn't pay that much for a guy who's had one good year. He could be great or a bust, but it just seems like too large a gamble for a team coming off a 1-15 season. He's going to get the same over the first 3 years as Moss is going to get in 3 years w/ Pats. I think in the next year or two, there'll be a comparable or better talent available via FA or draft for equivalent money. Since we're a couple years away, I'm content to wait, as hard as it may be. The one thing that may change that position is if the league goes uncapped in 2010 as some have predicted. That would reward teams who have splurged since that won't have to deal with the consequences of their spending. It would also mean salaries could potentially skyrocket even more. Still in all, I think you need to stay prepared for a cap of some sort. I think the Jets are just in win now mode while we're rebuilding. It's a different approach and we'll see how it works out for both teams. The Jets should get immediate payoff, where as we need to look for our big jump in 2-3 years.

SF Dolfan
03-04-2008, 07:45 PM
We understand that as well.What some may not realize is that with the cap increasing as it has over the past few seasons,these contracts will seem like a bargain in a couple of years,just watch and see.Remember when the Vikings paid Steve Hutchinson that $49 million dollar contract that piad him $7 million per year?THAT is a bargain for that caliber player,looking at it two years later.That's point that some front offices are starting to realize.

I fully agree with this post. You still need to make sure you're paying for quality, however. The big question is what happens to the cap in 2010 and thereafter. Of course, we won't know until it happens.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 07:46 PM
So you were just speculating that he has a low base salary? I generally don't have a problem with you or anyone else speculating but don't try to make it sound like it is a fact when you really don't know.

The salary cap won't matter in three years anyway if the owners opt out of the current CBA.
Well,if you look at ANY contract that has been given out over the last 10 years,you will see that they are ALL structured this way.Why would the Jets suddenly change the way that they make deals,or any other team for that matter.I would bet you my life savings that is the way it is written.It's the only way it is cap feasible for any team.It's just the way teams do business.

Da Phinishisher
03-04-2008, 07:47 PM
Valid points fellas. To counter the Joey Porter point, we knew he was overpaid and had the same blind confidence (got to as fans), but he was just one huge commitment. The Jets have made several this year, which is why there is the speculation Mangini is on the hot seat...

afishfan
03-04-2008, 08:02 PM
I have respect for your acquisition of talent, not trying to bait at all, but does all that guaranteed money accurately represent the talent you acquired? of course not, no team outright wins during FA in terms of value. The Jets have chosen to throw that money around so that is why the jets are catching some flak at the moment

well in their defense, there is a TON of decision making that goes into free agency if you do it right that none of us even think about. for one thing, even though we hear all the time how recently how stupid it is to sign players to big contracts cause they never pan out etc etc. I disagree if it is done correctly. In the last few years the cap has gone up significantly, so who really knows (regardless of cap space available) what kind of long term position the Jets may be in with cap- I'm sure they have some plan. Also, how can you get better quickly without some good signings?? One intelligent thing to do perhaps depending on how many players you having entering free agency is sign a bunch of guys one year and let marginal players (in your system) leave the next - that way you maximize supplemental picks (look at the pats this year - they probably just secured at least 4 3rd round draft picks next year - that is so huge!!!! you will not see them sign any free agents besides moss for this reason) they set this up to happen with one year deals to stallworth (who will get them a third rounder - ts unbelievable).

The jets need players just like us and the only signing I don't like is the Woody signing. The only way Faneca doesn't work out is if the Jets aren't good in two years. And in some ways it makes sense anyways (take a look at what Dave Dombrowski has done with the Detroit Tigers in a couple of years - he overpaid for Pudge and Ordonez and gave them credability instantly - now guys want to be there).

I like your aggressive approach. It wouldn't work for us (parcells brings the credability by his presence alone) and we probably are further away in some areas. I think it works for you guys though - as I am equally ecstatic about our free agency (with the exception of PACE!!! - jerks). The only signgin that might not work out is Smiley - but he was the best available guy for us - Fanaca doesnt make sense cause we need 3 positions filled on the line and we need to stick with younger guys if possible and he was a 2nd rounder and is 26.

The key to both teams .....good line (both working on it)....playmakers on defense (you guys got one closer with Pace). and Quarterback ( I'll take our guys) but neither of us have that position settled until we can get a guy to play with somewhere around an 85 qb rating and not take a ton of sacks and fumble the ball. If either team gets that qb play = regardless they will be a .500 team already - thats how the league works.

So any speculation about either team really doesnt matter = it all comes down to quarterback. and we both have questions, and perhaps we both have a potential answer (Beck and KK). its up to the qbs

jetsman
03-04-2008, 08:02 PM
Valid points fellas. To counter the Joey Porter point, we knew he was overpaid and had the same blind confidence (got to as fans), but he was just one huge commitment. The Jets have made several this year, which is why there is the speculation Mangini is on the hot seat...
I'm not sure if he is on the hot seat,no one is,but I think after coming here he was trying not to be too disruptive and used players that didn't really fit his system.He got away with it the first year when we had a weaker schedule and won 10 games,but last season I think convinced him he needed to get rid of guys who don't fit the system,regardless of whether they are good players or not,i.e Vilma and Robertson.He is bringing in guys that are prototypical 3-4 guys and I think we will make big strides because of that fact.

jvw
03-04-2008, 08:07 PM
I was visiting Gang Green (the Jets fan forum) and they were all talking about how their cap guru was the best in the business (sorry I cannot think of his name). Sounds to me like the Jets have overspent. :lol:
His name is Tannenbaum or something like that he is good

Itsdahumidity
03-04-2008, 08:17 PM
I'm not sure if he is on the hot seat,no one is,but I think after coming here he was trying not to be too disruptive and used players that didn't really fit his system.He got away with it the first year when we had a weaker schedule and won 10 games,but last season I think convinced him he needed to get rid of guys who don't fit the system,regardless of whether they are good players or not,i.e Vilma and Robertson.He is bringing in guys that are prototypical 3-4 guys and I think we will make big strides because of that fact.

Oh make no mistake jetsman, mangini is definitely on the hot seat. What he's doing to your defense now should have been done on day one(he's either stubborn w/ his scheme or don't know how to run any other).

So it's at least a 2 year setback. With the coin you guys spent, your team better get to the playoffs for mangini's sake.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 08:19 PM
His name is Tannenbaum or something like that he is good
Yes,you're correct.

jetsman
03-04-2008, 08:23 PM
Oh make no mistake jetsman, mangini is definitely on the hot seat. What he's doing to your defense now should have been done on day one(he's either stubborn w/ his scheme or don't know how to run any other).

So it's at least a 2 year setback. With the coin you guys spent, your team better get to the playoffs for mangini's sake.
He couldn't do it from day one because we didn't have the cap space.I explained in my earlier post why I believe he waited.

PMZQ
03-04-2008, 08:29 PM
Ouch, thats horrible news.

:up: :beer1:

jetsman
03-04-2008, 08:39 PM
:up: :beer1:

....annnnnddddd.....completely UNTRUE............:sidelol:

Itsdahumidity
03-04-2008, 08:40 PM
He couldn't do it from day one because we didn't have the cap space.I explained in my earlier post why I believe he waited.

Oh, I didn't read the entire thread but I'm not talking about the big signings. He should have traded Vilma & Robertson for bigger players, thus getting proper value in return. 3 # ones down the toilet, sheesh I thought we threw away picks.

Da Phinishisher
03-04-2008, 08:42 PM
Just curious Jets fans, what kind of expectations the media is putting out there after the moves so far. Are playoffs being mentioned? I'm just wondering cause I remember how it was for Miami and Porter, but I live in Denver and they had an offseason last year similiar to yours this year and SB was being touted.

whatsburning
03-04-2008, 09:06 PM
We should bring Robertson in for a 5th or 6th rounder to play end on the line. He runs a 4.85 and would be good at rushing the passer out of a 3-4 as an end. I can see him doing great things if we get him for the end spot. He is a little bigger than most, but we could get him to either slim down a little bit or just play big.

Why in the world would we want to help the Jests salvage their cap situation?? This suggestion is the same thing that happened with the Wes Welker deal... NE signed him to a ridiculous offer sheet worth more than 5 mil a year, then offered an extra 7th to us to get him outright, then signed him to a cap-friendly 3 mil/year deal. All for a 7th round pick??? We could've let him go to NE for the 2nd round tender, and have him count against their cap for 5 mil +/year instead of the manageable 3 mil.

pags77
03-04-2008, 09:22 PM
Just curious Jets fans, what kind of expectations the media is putting out there after the moves so far. Are playoffs being mentioned? I'm just wondering cause I remember how it was for Miami and Porter, but I live in Denver and they had an offseason last year similiar to yours this year and SB was being touted.

Definitely not a Jets fan but living in NY, get to listen to a lot of local sports-talk and most "experts" like the bold moves the Jets are making.
The offensive line should be a strong point for this team with Faneca taking a leadership role and making guys like Mangold and Ferguson better. There is a recognition that they need playmakers at the QB and RB position to compliment the talented O-line they have put together. They are looking for playmakers in the draft.
On the defensive side, they feel they are bringing in the "right" players to make the base 3-4 work. The feeling was Vilma and Robertson were more suited for the 4-3.

swankdaddy7
03-05-2008, 12:32 AM
Most contracts are imaginary numbers that are never reached because the base salaries are backloaded with HUGE amounts of cash that the player will never actually get paid.He is probably scheduled to make around $10 million per year in base salary in the final two years of that deal,which is $20 million.
The team will either renegotiate that deal around year 4 or cut the player with no significant cap penalty at that time,other than the remaining prorated bonus money.The deal is actually for the guaranteed potion and nothing more really.That means we will actually pay him in the neighborhood of around $26-28 million for this deal.

You are not refuting the ESPN report that $26 million is paid in the first three years. Therefore it is not as backloaded as you are trying to state. That's an average of $8.7 million per year over the first three years.

jetsman
03-05-2008, 02:51 AM
You are not refuting the ESPN report that $26 million is paid in the first three years. Therefore it is not as backloaded as you are trying to state. That's an average of $8.7 million per year over the first three years.

I take ESPN with a grain of salt until the team confirms the details.ESPN also reported we traded Vilma for a conditional 2009 4th round pick.That turned out to not be the case.We traded Vilma for a 2008 4th rounder and a conditional 2009 pick which can beno lower than a 3rd and as high as a 2nd rounder.

Even if they pay $26 mil in the first three years,there could be a clause for automatic renegotiation based on certain easily reached incentives.Trust me,you guys are hoping we broke the bank,but I know our GM,and one thing he is not going to do is screw up the cap.Your man Parcells called him an ABSOLUTE GENIUS and rising STAR when he was with the Jets organization.So far,that has proven to be true.

Eclypse13
03-05-2008, 03:54 AM
Wow... the Jets are having a pretty decent offseason and everyone wants to act like they are messing up? They are playing for now and think they are a playoff team. They are treating FA the way New England did last year and loading up. Yeah they will have to pay for it in a few years most likely... but its not like they are doing anything that messed up.

Jenkins is a stud and a hell of a pickup. I would have loved to have him on the Phins. Faneca is a helluva guard. Overpaid, but anyone given that salary is overpaid. Some other team would have paid him just as much though. Its the direction the NFL is headed in.

late again
03-05-2008, 09:42 AM
We should bring Robertson in for a 5th or 6th rounder to play end on the line. He runs a 4.85 and would be good at rushing the passer out of a 3-4 as an end. I can see him doing great things if we get him for the end spot. He is a little bigger than most, but we could get him to either slim down a little bit or just play big.
Where did you read that and how old is that information? The guy is 310#.
He's not an End, either. He's a NT. He was being traded because the Jets believe Jenkins is an upgrade and can't afford both.