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Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 10:57 AM
The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.

phin fan 4 ever
03-05-2008, 11:03 AM
it's not always the big names that make a big impact and we are rebuilding we don't need to get big names yet we need to continue to fill holes and get younger, and with all the capspace we had going in to fa i think the fins are doing a great job and are on the right path to more victories, and hopefully they have a great draft

Chris long with the first pick

burger13
03-05-2008, 11:06 AM
The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.

not sure why you assume that the Bills are a given to be better than the Jets or Dolphins.

without looking, they have added Stroud and K.Mitchell only right? They already had a good defense, but I don't think that Stroud coming off an injury or Mitchell are going to push them into the elite category.

ok...I did look and they also added Spencer Johnson...doesn't change my previous opinion

on offense they invested heavily last year in O-Line and drafted M.Lynch, and their running game wasn't that good. they ranked in the bottom half of the league. Also, T.Edwards exceeded expectations as a rookie, but that hardly means that they are guaranteed good or even average QB play this year.

I am by no means saying that I think that either the Jets or the Dolphins are going to be better....just that it is far from certain that the Bills are the second best team in the division.

dlockz
03-05-2008, 11:07 AM
The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.


I dont see why the Jets will be so bad. I can see all three rivals at .500 or better next year.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 11:11 AM
not sure why you assume that the Bills are a given to be better than the Jets or Dolphins.

without looking, they have added Stroud and K.Mitchell only right? They already had a good defense, but I don't think that Stroud coming off an injury or Mitchell are going to push them into the elite category.

ok...I did look and they also added Spencer Johnson...doesn't change my previous opinion

on offense they invested heavily last year in O-Line and drafted M.Lynch, and their running game wasn't that good. they ranked in the bottom half of the league. Also, T.Edwards exceeded expectations as a rookie, but that hardly means that they are guaranteed good or even average QB play this year.

I am by no means saying that I think that either the Jets or the Dolphins are going to be better....just that it is far from certain that the Bills are the second best team in the division.The running game wasn't that good? Lynch only played 13 games and ended 11th in the league and had a 4.0 YPC. It's the passing offense that lacked and the Bills are looking to add a tall WR with Bryant Johnson. If they don't sign him they are certain to get Kelly or Sweed.








1 LaDainian Tomlinson (http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150) SD (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sandiegochargers/profile?team=SD) RB 315 19.7 1,474 4.7 92.1 15 49 75 23.8 13 2 0 2 Adrian Peterson (http://www.nfl.com/players/adrianpeterson/profile?id=PET260705) MIN (http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN) RB 238 17.0 1,341 5.6 95.8 12 73T 62 26.1 11 5 4 3 Brian Westbrook (http://www.nfl.com/players/brianwestbrook/profile?id=WES537220) PHI (http://www.nfl.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/profile?team=PHI) RB 278 18.5 1,333 4.8 88.9 7 36 73 26.3 11 0 0 4 Willie Parker (http://www.nfl.com/players/willieparker/profile?id=PAR468944) PIT (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) RB 321 21.4 1,316 4.1 87.7 2 32 49 15.3 12 0 4 5 Jamal Lewis (http://www.nfl.com/players/jamallewis/profile?id=LEW373095) CLE (http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE) RB 298 19.9 1,304 4.4 86.9 9 66T 58 19.5 9 2 4 6 Clinton Portis (http://www.nfl.com/players/clintonportis/profile?id=POR792942) WAS (http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/profile?team=WAS) RB 325 20.3 1,262 3.9 78.9 11 32 61 18.8 3 0 6 7 Edgerrin James (http://www.nfl.com/players/edgerrinjames/profile?id=JAM177189) ARI (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/profile?team=ARI) RB 324 20.2 1,222 3.8 76.4 7 27 52 16.0 4 0 4 8 Willis McGahee (http://www.nfl.com/players/willismcgahee/profile?id=MCG001995) BAL (http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL) RB 294 19.6 1,207 4.1 80.5 7 46T 56 19.0 5 1 4 9 Fred Taylor (http://www.nfl.com/players/fredtaylor/profile?id=TAY220162) JAC (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC) RB 223 14.9 1,202 5.4 80.1 5 80T 45 20.2 8 4 2 10 Thomas Jones (http://www.nfl.com/players/thomasjones/profile?id=JON755755) NYJ (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkjets/profile?team=NYJ) RB 310 19.4 1,119 3.6 69.9 1 36 55 17.7 2 0 2 11 Marshawn Lynch (http://www.nfl.com/players/marshawnlynch/profile?id=LYN442976) BUF (http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF) RB 280 21.5 1,115 4.0 85.8 7 56T 51 18.2 6 2 1

fishypete
03-05-2008, 11:14 AM
You have to play the games.

MoneyBrown
03-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Smack talk is not permitted anywhere on Finheaven.
The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.

houtz
03-05-2008, 11:17 AM
The Jets and the BIlls will be a .500 team at best. Miami might surprise some teams and end up at .500 or even better, but I'm not going to count on anything.

The Jets wasted money on a mediocre linebacker who had one good season. I highly doubt that makes them contenders. And in case anyone forgot they still have Pennington or Clemens which neither look like they got much potential.

The Bills on the other hand they got a great guy in Edwards. But their defense isn't very good and their offense isn't very consistent.

Fact is, the Patriots don't have much competition for a few years. But the best thing for us is they lost half their defense and the remaining part of their defense has an average age of about 65. Can't forget this spygate thing has to explode sooner or later.

burger13
03-05-2008, 11:23 AM
The running game wasn't that good? Lynch only played 13 games and ended 11th in the league and had a 4.0 YPC. It's the passing offense that lacked and the Bills are looking to add a tall WR with Bryant Johnson. If they don't sign him they are certain to get Kelly or Sweed.


yes. NOT THAT GOOD. Ranked 15th in rushing yards and 15th in yards per attempt.

The Dolphins have an O-Line which is widely regarded as below average, and only had Ronnie Brown for 7.5 games and they still had a higher ypc than the Jills.

as for overall offense the Bills were 30th in the NFL, even worse than Miami. Bryant Johnson (who isn't even signed yet) is going to fix this?

EDIT - and now that I took the time to look, their defense wasn't even that good either.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-05-2008, 11:30 AM
Just a Jills troll...look at the name...

On my worst day as a Dolphins fan(which is still better then the BEST day as a Jills fan) I could NEVER pretend to be another teams fan just to insult them...:loser1:

Yeah pretty weak, the first thought that came to mind was theres no way anyone would pick BUF in the upper echelon of the AFC East...

BLITZKRIEG
03-05-2008, 11:32 AM
Hate to say it, but if anyone has a chance to knock off the Pats in 2008, it will be the NY Jets in my opinion....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Mile High Fin
03-05-2008, 11:37 AM
We'll surprise, and be about .500 this year....

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 12:46 PM
Smack talk is not permitted anywhere on Finheaven.
Not a troll... I've been on these boards longer than you. I have been a fan of Willis since his days at the U and was glad when he got traded to Baltimore.

SQuinn17
03-05-2008, 12:50 PM
both the bills and jets have improved their lines but still dont scare anybody at the skill positions! therefore both of them are going nowhere.

SQuinn17
03-05-2008, 12:52 PM
Not a troll... I've been on these boards longer than you. I have been a fan of Willis since his days at the U and was glad when he got traded to Baltimore.
so whats up with all the pro-bills posts then?

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 12:53 PM
so whats up with all the pro-bills posts then?
devils advocate

SQuinn17
03-05-2008, 12:56 PM
devils advocate
man get off their nuts! theyre not that good.

Nublar7
03-05-2008, 12:56 PM
devils advocate

http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=800812&postcount=2


I am a bills fan who tapes every game, if you need help I am willing to help with that if no one else will do it. I also own my own production company so editing commercials aint no thing. As far as what format you compress and loading the torrent I could use help there. If worst comes to worst for you guys I will do it.

FinFrenzy
03-05-2008, 12:58 PM
Besides Stroud if he's healthy what did the Bill's do? K. Mitchell??? Didn't they sign a guy by the name of T. Spikes a few years ago also???

I honestly think the only unpredictable team in the Division is the phins...We can only get better, how much can only be seen during the season.

TotoreMexico
03-05-2008, 01:00 PM
so whats up with all the pro-bills posts then?

He's a bills fan...

TotoreMexico
03-05-2008, 01:02 PM
devils advocate

Bull****

footballer
03-05-2008, 01:16 PM
You have to play the games.

i know thats right! im sure the new york giants believe you.

finfan54
03-05-2008, 01:22 PM
Who is the Bills Qb? I am sorry, but wishful thinking requires something more than just adding Free agents. And you say the NY JETS are bottome feeders based on this? wow.

SQuinn17
03-05-2008, 01:26 PM
http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=800812&postcount=2
good look on that nub7

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 01:30 PM
The Jets and the BIlls will be a .500 team at best. Miami might surprise some teams and end up at .500 or even better, but I'm not going to count on anything.

The Jets wasted money on a mediocre linebacker who had one good season. I highly doubt that makes them contenders. And in case anyone forgot they still have Pennington or Clemens which neither look like they got much potential.

The Bills on the other hand they got a great guy in Edwards. But their defense isn't very good and their offense isn't very consistent.

Fact is, the Patriots don't have much competition for a few years. But the best thing for us is they lost half their defense and the remaining part of their defense has an average age of about 65. Can't forget this spygate thing has to explode sooner or later.

Let's talk about that defense for a quick second. It wasn't very good, but it wasn't bad either. The problem was that they let up a lot of yards and stayed on the field a long time, but they were 18th in points allowed. They were top 12 before the New England debacle. So while they let up tons of yards they didn't let up so many points... so they aren't that bad. Marcus Stroud and Kawika Mitchell should help the run defense. Not too mention that Poz and Ko Simpson will be back... it's a completely different defense than last year.

The offense had its problems... one of which was a rookie QB. Trent has had some time to learn now and should be better this season, he had a pretty good season for a rook. Another problem was playcalling. Steve Fairchild called a horrible game and after he left the new OC came in and said that one of the changes they are going to make is to implement and audible package! What? Fairchild's system didn't have an audible package? It's a wonder they won 7 games without an audible package. The final problem was redzone. The Bills had trouble getting into the endzone from this area, a tall wide receiver and a possession tight end would help with this. That's where Bryant Johnson comes in. Sure he's not Chad Johnson or TO... but he is 6 foot 3 with good hands. In today's NFL you need a tall WR who you can toss up a fade route pass to in the redzone.

That said, someone else said something along the lines of what makes you think the Bills will be better than the Phins or Jets.

Well, for starters, The Bills won 7 games last season against the Jets 4 and Miami's 1. So out of the gates they are better. Second as far as Bills vs Phins... the QB situation is more solid with the Bills as there is still a big question to who will start for the phins. Trent had a good season as a QB, but a great season as a rookie QB. The O line is pretty solid, all the Bills need is a center. WR will be set after the draft if not before. The Bills will most likely draft Malcolm Kelly or Sweed in the first and have a good compliment to Lee Evans and Roscoe Parrish's speed. So the Bills offense is not as far off as the phins.

The Bills D as I said earlier is almost completely different from last season. Yukoda Simpson and Paul Poszlusny will be back. Kawika Mitchell will join Poz and Crowell backing the line which is a huge upgrade from Ellison and Digorgio. Marcus Stroud will be on the D line with McCargo and Schobel.

So like I said originally, as far as improvements go, it looks as though the Bills are still better off than the Phins.

Now... if only we could get rid of those pesky patriots.

On the other side, Parcells has the Phins in the right direction. I saw the same thing when Levy came in as GM of the Bills. He got rid of the aging vets and filled the roster with young FA's and had very good drafts. Now that the Bills are a young team, its time to go after some bigger FA's which they have.

I feel like the Phins will take the same path. Get the roster younger, bring in guys who believe in the system and when the core players are there, bring in some good vet FA's.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 01:36 PM
Who is the Bills Qb? I am sorry, but wishful thinking requires something more than just adding Free agents. And you say the NY JETS are bottome feeders based on this? wow.Who is the Bills QB? You don't remember the guy that thrashed you last year? you know the guy that torched you for 4 TD's Trent Edwards... He was a rookie and with 9 games behind him the '08 season is looking pretty good.

Who is the Phins QB? Oh yeah... nobody knows.

MiamiDolphins34
03-05-2008, 01:37 PM
http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=800812&postcount=2

Pwned:lol:

Dolfan1000
03-05-2008, 01:38 PM
Owned.

Similar to him asking you to leave, I find it funny you have yet to address your blatant lie about being a Jills fan.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 01:45 PM
Please comment only on the subject, not the poster. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Owned.

Similar to him asking you to leave, I find it funny you have yet to address your blatant lie about being a Jills fan.
Never said I wasn't a Bills fan... I said I wasn't a troll. I have been on this message board longer than most of you

Dolfan1000
03-05-2008, 01:46 PM
Good. Lets add a personal attack to your resume. Only helping make the mods decision easier.

Oh, and you did say you were not a Bills fan; you called yourself a devil's advocate.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 01:48 PM
Good. Lets add a personal attack to your resume. Only helping make the mods decision easier.

Oh, and you did say you were not a Bills fan; you called yourself a devil's advocate.
Personal attack? like what you guys have been doing to me?

and I NEVER SAID THAT I WASN'T A BILLS FAN.

finfan54
03-05-2008, 02:16 PM
Who is the Bills QB? You don't remember the guy that thrashed you last year? you know the guy that torched you for 4 TD's Trent Edwards... He was a rookie and with 9 games behind him the '08 season is looking pretty good.

Who is the Phins QB? Oh yeah... nobody knows.

I watched Trent Edwards, not impressed. Dude lost you a game you had...the Dallas Cowboys. Using the lowly Dolphins and Cameron Worrell as your proof is very very sad indeed.

Nublar7
03-05-2008, 02:35 PM
Personal attack? like what you guys have been doing to me?

and I NEVER SAID THAT I WASN'T A BILLS FAN.
So, who is "We"?

The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.

MoneyBrown
03-05-2008, 02:39 PM
Never said I wasn't a Bills fan... I said I wasn't a troll. I have been on this message board longer than most of you .

Dude, Nubs shows your true colors, then you hide and say you never said you weren't a Bills fan. So then explain this, troll:


We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.So here you use "we" in reference to the Miami Dolphins. So you are referring to yourself as a part of the Miami Dolphins base. You are clearly pretending to be a Miami Dolphins fan to slip in your dig about the jills being better than the Fins.

So there is no meaning behind you being a member of this site longer than some of us...

It only means that you have been here trolling, longer than we have been here supporting.

I feel bad for some of the quality Bills fans that come on this site, because activity like this is a negative representation.

MoneyBrown
03-05-2008, 02:40 PM
Haha Nubs, good looking out. I was right behind you, writing my post while you were posting yours!!!

burger13
03-05-2008, 02:40 PM
Trent had a good season as a QB, but a great season as a rookie QB.

talk about overrating....since when is 56%, 7 TD and 8 INT (in 9 starts) considered a good season for a QB. And MORE THAN HALF his TD's came in one game against the worst team in the league (yeah, that would be us).


He was decent for a 3rd round rookie....but lets not push it

Justasportsfan
03-05-2008, 02:41 PM
not sure why you assume that the Bills are a given to be better than the Jets or Dolphins.

without looking, they have added Stroud and K.Mitchell only right? They already had a good defense, but I don't think that Stroud coming off an injury or Mitchell are going to push them into the elite category.

ok...I did look and they also added Spencer Johnson...doesn't change my previous opinion

on offense they invested heavily last year in O-Line and drafted M.Lynch, and their running game wasn't that good. they ranked in the bottom half of the league. Also, T.Edwards exceeded expectations as a rookie, but that hardly means that they are guaranteed good or even average QB play this year.

I am by no means saying that I think that either the Jets or the Dolphins are going to be better....just that it is far from certain that the Bills are the second best team in the division.
I agree, it's far from certain that the bills will finish 2nd in the division but it is more realistic than either the jets or fins.

Green Ranger
03-05-2008, 02:42 PM
So, who is "We"?



ZING!!!!!!

finfan54
03-05-2008, 02:47 PM
I agree, it's far from certain that the bills will finish 2nd in the division but it is more realistic than either the jets or fins.

Um, by the looks of things, the Jets, yes they are overspending, but no doubt are a better football team than last year. To say otherwise is not realistic. Now, does that translate to playoff team? Not yet. It comes down to the offense and QB.

The Jets are the only ones who have beaten the Patriots recently (besides us, who dont matter right now). The Bills havent even come close. The Bills beat some teams and then fall flat on their face the next week. So, to me, its really just ludicrous to suggest that anyone is better than anyone else minus the NE Patriots.

burger13
03-05-2008, 02:50 PM
I agree, it's far from certain that the bills will finish 2nd in the division but it is more realistic than either the jets or fins.

nah.....I'm the biggest Jets hater there is, but I would pick them ahead of the Bills. They have been that team for a while now that is good when you don't expect anything from them and bad when they are supposed to be good. Coming off a 4 win season, I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the playoffs. Bringing in A.Faneca and K.Jenkins doesn't hurt.

Bills could go either way IMO....if Edwards doesn't take a significant step forward this year, I think they lose more than they did last year.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 03:15 PM
So, who is "We"?"We" is you and I.

Justasportsfan
03-05-2008, 03:17 PM
Um, by the looks of things, the Jets, yes they are overspending, but no doubt are a better football team than last year. To say otherwise is not realistic. Now, does that translate to playoff team? Not yet. It comes down to the offense and QB.

The Jets are the only ones who have beaten the Patriots recently (besides us, who dont matter right now). The Bills havent even come close. The Bills beat some teams and then fall flat on their face the next week. So, to me, its really just ludicrous to suggest that anyone is better than anyone else minus the NE Patriots.

Even if the jets upgraded we swept both the fins and the jets and we upgraded too. Again it's far from certain but it's more logical.

I don't care if the jets beat the Pats, we swept them so it doesn't matter who beat who unless it's head on.

Justasportsfan
03-05-2008, 03:19 PM
nah.....I'm the biggest Jets hater there is, but I would pick them ahead of the Bills. They have been that team for a while now that is good when you don't expect anything from them and bad when they are supposed to be good. Coming off a 4 win season, I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the playoffs. Bringing in A.Faneca and K.Jenkins doesn't hurt.

Bills could go either way IMO....if Edwards doesn't take a significant step forward this year, I think they lose more than they did last year.

Clemens needs to make a significant move forward too for them to beat us. they are coming off a 4 win season but we are coming off a 7 game win season and though they have upgraded,so did we. they didn't beat us with the D we had last year

finswin56
03-05-2008, 03:19 PM
Gentlemen, if you can't keep this thread smack free, and without personal comments, it will be closed.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 03:29 PM
talk about overrating....since when is 56%, 7 TD and 8 INT (in 9 starts) considered a good season for a QB. And MORE THAN HALF his TD's came in one game against the worst team in the league (yeah, that would be us).


He was decent for a 3rd round rookie....but lets not push itI said he was a decent QB. But a good rookie. You forget it was his first year in the league playing in an offense with an inept coordinator. His completion percentage is low because he played in a blizzard (cleveland) and 60 MPH winds (NYG). Without those 2 games he was at 62%.

And to the poster that said that he lost us the Dallas game... THAT WAS HIS FIRST NFL START... EVER! The entire offense was stifled that day... not just Edwards. He was moving the ball pretty good against the cowboys... just couldn't get into the endzone (see earlier post about redzone woes).

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 03:32 PM
You think that the Jets are better off than the Bills? Who is their QB... that's right... they don't know yet.
As far as the Bills winning and then falling flat on their face... they were a young team with A LOT of injuries last year... over 20 guys on IR. The Kevin Everett injury plagued them for a few weeks after it happened as well.


Um, by the looks of things, the Jets, yes they are overspending, but no doubt are a better football team than last year. To say otherwise is not realistic. Now, does that translate to playoff team? Not yet. It comes down to the offense and QB.

The Jets are the only ones who have beaten the Patriots recently (besides us, who dont matter right now). The Bills havent even come close. The Bills beat some teams and then fall flat on their face the next week. So, to me, its really just ludicrous to suggest that anyone is better than anyone else minus the NE Patriots.

burger13
03-05-2008, 05:35 PM
I said he was a decent QB. But a good rookie.

No...you said:


Trent had a good season as a QB, but a great season as a rookie QB.


You forget it was his first year in the league playing in an offense with an inept coordinator. His completion percentage is low because he played in a blizzard (cleveland) and 60 MPH winds (NYG). Without those 2 games he was at 62%.

I didn't forget anything....I said he was decent for a 3rd round rookie.

And I like the little thing you did there where you get to excuse the player for bad performances which you don't want to count. If I do that for John Beck and don't count the Philly game which was his first start and cold and snowing....he threw for 60% too. :woot:

What if we don't count the Miami game for Edwards, because the Dolphins were so bad last year...what does Trent's 'great season as a rookie QB look then?

140 of 246 for 1465 yards with 3 TD's and 8 INT's - 64.8 rating.

WOW! That's impressive.

But the truth is that all those games do count, and if Edwards wants to be a good QB in Buffalo, he better learn how to throw for better than 35% in those types of games. The kid may wind up being ok. Maybe good. Maybe great....but he's not there yet, and your 30th ranked offense has a way to go.

ch19079
03-05-2008, 05:40 PM
The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.
Pats
Bills
Jets
Fins

in that order.

- We have to put the pats on top just because they are the pats.

- The bills Improved thier D-line (even if you dont think highly of Stroud) because Tripplett was a BUM. The bills also got a solid OLB in FA AND Poz will be back after missing most of last season. On O, Edwards and Lynch are more experienced, which can only improve thier performances. The bills still need a WR and TE to be very effective, but there is still time for that. The bills should easily get to .500 if not better.

- The jets overpaid for big name FA, but the FA still improved their team. Their O-Line WILL be better. Their QB, RB, and defense is still up in the air though, so I cant predict them even getting to .500. Maybe 6-7 wins.

- The fins added some ok people in FA. They are definatly one of the few teams that are truly rebuilding. Usually a team says they are rebuilding after a few bad seasons but continue to sign over hyped, overpaid, old players (jets) which is not truly rebuilding. But the fins just have to many holes to fill. They are on the right track, but I cant see them winning more than 5-6 games next season.

MelbournePhin
03-05-2008, 06:41 PM
the bills finish 2nd in the division and miss the playoffs. who cares?

soflabillsfan
03-05-2008, 11:43 PM
Still a lot of smack talk from a team that went 1-15 last year.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 11:48 PM
No...you said:





I didn't forget anything....I said he was decent for a 3rd round rookie.

And I like the little thing you did there where you get to excuse the player for bad performances which you don't want to count. If I do that for John Beck and don't count the Philly game which was his first start and cold and snowing....he threw for 60% too. :woot:

What if we don't count the Miami game for Edwards, because the Dolphins were so bad last year...what does Trent's 'great season as a rookie QB look then?

140 of 246 for 1465 yards with 3 TD's and 8 INT's - 64.8 rating.

WOW! That's impressive.

But the truth is that all those games do count, and if Edwards wants to be a good QB in Buffalo, he better learn how to throw for better than 35% in those types of games. The kid may wind up being ok. Maybe good. Maybe great....but he's not there yet, and your 30th ranked offense has a way to go.It's basically the same thing. I wasn't dismissing the games which he played in crazy conditions... he is young and will get used to it. Before this season the coldest weather he played in was 50 degrees. I was simply pointing out that his completion percentage was higher before two very crazy games in terms of weather.

It's a given that he needs to play better, but he was a rookie who had a good season for a rookie... not a third round rookie... just a rookie. ESPN was talking about him daily and amazed by his poise and control of the huddle, his quick decision making and fast release... That's NOT what they were saying about Beck.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-05-2008, 11:50 PM
Still a lot of smack talk from a team that went 1-15 last year.
Tell me about it? I don't know why they are this confident, or this quick to put down a team that had 7 times more wins than they had. To put down a team that, on paper (which is all we have right now) is light-years ahead of theirs.

Well, I should expect it though, they were saying the same thing last off season... how they would challenge New England and how they will own the east again... they were wrong then, and they're wrong now... No team is further away from a superbowl than these Miami Dolphins.

TotoreMexico
03-06-2008, 12:02 AM
Still a lot of smack talk from a team that went 1-15 last year.

Same from a team that hasn't won a Super Bowl, and your point is?

TotoreMexico
03-06-2008, 12:03 AM
Tell me about it? I don't know why they are this confident, or this quick to put down a team that had 7 times more wins than they had. To put down a team that, on paper (which is all we have right now) is light-years ahead of theirs.

Well, I should expect it though, they were saying the same thing last off season... how they would challenge New England and how they will own the east again... they were wrong then, and they're wrong now... No team is further away from a superbowl than these Miami Dolphins.

Just like the bills fans over the bills forums:rolleyes2:

BuffaloSoldier2
03-06-2008, 12:50 AM
No...you said:





I didn't forget anything....I said he was decent for a 3rd round rookie.

And I like the little thing you did there where you get to excuse the player for bad performances which you don't want to count. If I do that for John Beck and don't count the Philly game which was his first start and cold and snowing....he threw for 60% too. :woot:

What if we don't count the Miami game for Edwards, because the Dolphins were so bad last year...what does Trent's 'great season as a rookie QB look then?

140 of 246 for 1465 yards with 3 TD's and 8 INT's - 64.8 rating.

WOW! That's impressive.

But the truth is that all those games do count, and if Edwards wants to be a good QB in Buffalo, he better learn how to throw for better than 35% in those types of games. The kid may wind up being ok. Maybe good. Maybe great....but he's not there yet, and your 30th ranked offense has a way to go.


You make a lot of fair points. But a couple of things to remember about those games against Cleveland: 1) Edwards had about the same stats as Derek Anderson and 2) against the Giants, Edwards outplayed the Super MVP (Eli had 2 ints and 7 fumbles). In fact before the monsoon came and our pro bowl LT got hurt in the 2nd quarter, he was lighting up the champs with 2 tds.

It obviously could got either way but I'm fully confident in Edwards. He avoids dumb sacks and plays much better than JP.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-06-2008, 12:53 AM
Just like the bills fans over the bills forums:rolleyes2:
I don't recall bills fans ever saying this... but if they did, they were a lot closer to being right than Phins fans.

Why can't you admit that the Bills are MUCH further along than the Phins?

TotoreMexico
03-06-2008, 01:01 AM
I don't recall bills fans ever saying this... but if they did, they were a lot closer to being right than Phins fans.

Why can't you admit that the Bills are MUCH further along than the Phins?

Well, I do

NE won the division, and you can't argue much about that, until you actually win the division come here to talk

Nasty Mcgahee
03-06-2008, 01:03 AM
Well, I do

NE won the division, and you can't argue much about that, until you actually win the division come here to talk
I don't understand your point?

I'll ask again: Why can't you admit that the Bills are MUCH further ahead than the Dolphins?

TotoreMexico
03-06-2008, 01:12 AM
I don't understand your point?

I'll ask again: Why can't you admit that the Bills are MUCH further ahead than the Dolphins?

My point is: new england owns the division until proven otherwise, until you actually win the division then come here to talk, comprende?

Brassmonki14120
03-06-2008, 02:22 AM
My point is: new england owns the division until proven otherwise, until you actually win the division then come here to talk, comprende?

This is a forum where anyone can express their opinion and others can state why they agree or disagree without being bullied or harassed.

I'm not a MOD but I am asking that you at least keep it civil, please.

I do agree with you 100% that the East is NE's.

In keeping with the topic I too believe that the Bills and Pats sit attop the AFC East with the Jets climbing their way up to the Bills.

Pre Draft:
Pats 10-6: Brady, Moss, Welker, Moroney, the O-Line.

Bills 8-8 possibly 9-7: Injured players returning, FAs and Trading for Stroud upgrades the Run Defense instantly.

Jets 8-8: Bought themselves a .500 team.

Phins 4-12 to 5-11: Still not a very good team at all.

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 07:34 AM
http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=800812&postcount=2


Ouch....busted!

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 07:52 AM
I don't care if the jets beat the Pats, we swept them so it doesn't matter who beat who unless it's head on.

Ya know what else doesn't matter? LAST YEAR. Last year has no effect on this year and just as little meaning. I know Bill fans have had so little to hang their hats on in the history of the franchise, which explains why their fans always claim they're the team to beat in the spring, then finish 500. or worse then hang their hats on 4 or 5 wins to claim how they will be better the following season just to come back the following spring to make the same exact claims.

....vicious cycle!!! Only Bill fans respect the Bills.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-06-2008, 10:30 AM
Ya know what else doesn't matter? LAST YEAR. Last year has no effect on this year and just as little meaning. I know Bill fans have had so little to hang their hats on in the history of the franchise, which explains why their fans always claim they're the team to beat in the spring, then finish 500. or worse then hang their hats on 4 or 5 wins to claim how they will be better the following season just to come back the following spring to make the same exact claims.

....vicious cycle!!! Only Bill fans respect the Bills.
Do you realize that your team only had 1 win last year? That does matter because it shows that you are behind the curve.

Why cant you admit that the Bills are better off than the Phins?

Addressing the other guy: I never said that the Pats weren't going to be on top. So your point really doesn't need to be made because your not arguing anything that I said.

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 01:06 PM
Do you realize that your team only had 1 win last year? That does matter because it shows that you are behind the curve.

No it doesn't, teams can go from worst to first and from first to worst in one off season, it happens every year. I think there has been a history from almost every season since the very first year of FA.It seems especially true for SB loser as they have a knack for going to a SB one year and missing the playoffs the next.

All last years results do, is give fans excuse for trash talk. I know Bill fans are thrilled Miami had such a bad year, A) because you hate the Dolphins, but B) and more importantly, it gives Bill fans an excuse to over evaluate their own teams pathetic season. Typical Bill fan post: ("we won 7 games last year, we're light years ahead of the Dolphins"!)

Gotta love how Bill fans rationalize, you ignore so many factors that go into a season and the results they have, simply to stroke your own ego's. I guess it comes form years and years and years and years of never winning anything worthy of talking about.

As usual the annual "Bills are going to compete for the AFC east" threads have begun and as usual all this based from a previous losing season followed by a minor trade and a few less then impressive FA moves. It's almost laughable.

As I stated before, Bill fans are about the only ones who respect the Bills.

Brassmonki14120
03-06-2008, 01:16 PM
Ya know what else doesn't matter? LAST YEAR. Last year has no effect on this year and just as little meaning. I know Bill fans have had so little to hang their hats on in the history of the franchise, which explains why their fans always claim they're the team to beat in the spring, then finish 500. or worse then hang their hats on 4 or 5 wins to claim how they will be better the following season just to come back the following spring to make the same exact claims.

....vicious cycle!!! Only Bill fans respect the Bills.

C'mon now. You can't be for real are you?

You quote false stats, you contradict yourself in the same thread, and then some of your posts are like the pot ACCUSING the kettle of being black.

Honesty time man, you're just goofin around and cant possibly believe what you're posting right? Kinda of like SNL "da Bears" skits.

If I'm wrong and you're just an emotional poster getting some stats mixed up or forgetting what you've already posted when you contradict yourself then I appologize. But really, you are just goofin, right?

By the way, I believe the Bills are a pretty solid 9-7 team if they make the addition of Ben Troupe.

Justasportsfan
03-06-2008, 02:28 PM
Ya know what else doesn't matter? LAST YEAR. Last year has no effect on this year and just as little meaning. I know Bill fans have had so little to hang their hats on in the history of the franchise, which explains why their fans always claim they're the team to beat in the spring, then finish 500. or worse then hang their hats on 4 or 5 wins to claim how they will be better the following season just to come back the following spring to make the same exact claims.

....vicious cycle!!! Only Bill fans respect the Bills.

I agree, last year was last year , but when the bills were finishing last in the division you used to use that excuse as to why we shouldn't win the next season.

You also stated prior to the start of last season that anyone who thinks we'd be beter than the fins is clueless. I could bring back your old posts to show you who was wrong ( YOU) but you know the mods won't like that.

Justasportsfan
03-06-2008, 02:29 PM
C'mon now. You can't be for real are you?


He is.

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 03:24 PM
C'mon now. You can't be for real are you?

You quote false stats, you contradict yourself in the same thread, and then some of your posts are like the pot ACCUSING the kettle of being black.

Honesty time man, you're just goofin around and cant possibly believe what you're posting right? Kinda of like SNL "da Bears" skits.

If I'm wrong and you're just an emotional poster getting some stats mixed up or forgetting what you've already posted when you contradict yourself then I appologize. But really, you are just goofin, right?

By the way, I believe the Bills are a pretty solid 9-7 team if they make the addition of Ben Troupe.

Contradictions? Not likely, You believe the Bills are a solid 9-7? Based on what, hope? The Bills only success in the NFL came in a brief 4 year span that happened in the early 90's, otherwise their existence has been nothing more then a foot note. BTW, you do realize a Bill fan started this thread proclaiming success before the fact, right? Based on minimal FA moves and 1 trade? Just like every year,right?

Just for grins and giggles, why don't you share with the rest of us how many wins he Bills have against winning teams the last three years. Then maybe we can rationalize their ability to win 9 games in 08.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-06-2008, 03:44 PM
No it doesn't, teams can go from worst to first and from first to worst in one off season, it happens every year. I think there has been a history from almost every season since the very first year of FA.It seems especially true for SB loser as they have a knack for going to a SB one year and missing the playoffs the next.

All last years results do, is give fans excuse for trash talk. I know Bill fans are thrilled Miami had such a bad year, A) because you hate the Dolphins, but B) and more importantly, it gives Bill fans an excuse to over evaluate their own teams pathetic season. Typical Bill fan post: ("we won 7 games last year, we're light years ahead of the Dolphins"!)

Gotta love how Bill fans rationalize, you ignore so many factors that go into a season and the results they have, simply to stroke your own ego's. I guess it comes form years and years and years and years of never winning anything worthy of talking about.

As usual the annual "Bills are going to compete for the AFC east" threads have begun and as usual all this based from a previous losing season followed by a minor trade and a few less then impressive FA moves. It's almost laughable.

As I stated before, Bill fans are about the only ones who respect the Bills.Show me a team that went from a 1 or 2 win season to making the playoffs. It's never happened. Teams fall faster than they climb, especially after making the superbowl because their players demand more money and get cut.

The Dolphins have a lot of holes to fill. QB WR OL TE...CB S, I would even argue RB because Brown isn't an every down back.

This is a team that is very far away from being good, I know, I've seen it with the Bills. Your kidding yourself if you think that they can be back into playoff contention after last season. They are in a complete rebuilding mode, you got at least 3 years.

I'll ask again because you guys keep dodging the question.. Tell me why you can't admit that the Bills are in a better position than the Dolphins.

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 04:50 PM
Show me a team that went from a 1 or 2 win season to making the playoffs. It's never happened. Teams fall faster than they climb, especially after making the superbowl because their players demand more money and get cut.

The 2005 Saints went from 3-13 worst in the NFL and first overall DP to the 2006 NFC Championship game. The 2005 Jets went from 4-12 to 10-6 and a playoff berth. BTW, both those teams did so with new FO's and HC's.

Miami lost 15 games last year but but lost 6 by 3 points or less and had a TON of key injuries, more so then any other team. If Zach,Yeremiah, Trent and Ronnie were all healthy the entire season we probably finish with 7 wins. So as much as you'd really like to believe Miami was a healthy 1-15 team they weren't. Miami's loss's to injuries were staggering.



The Dolphins have a lot of holes to fill. QB WR OL TE...CB S, I would even argue RB because Brown isn't an every down back.Come draft day Miami will also have a lot of DP's to fill those wholes and FA will continue. And Miami has plenty of money to spend.



This is a team that is very far away from being good, I know, I've seen it with the Bills. Your kidding yourself if you think that they can be back into playoff contention after last season. They are in a complete rebuilding mode, you got at least 3 years.Very far away? You do realize Miami was 1-15 last year but still finished better on offense and Defense in 07 then the Bills? We started 6 RB's and never played the same secondary two games in a row in 07? Yet we still manage a better overall Defense the the 7 win Bills? What does that say about the Bills?

In the last two years Miami has finished both years with better stats on both sides of the ball and have more wins against teams with winning records?

You come here telling us how bad our team really is, but then your team has worse stats the last two years then the fins and your team is on the rise and the fins are getting worse? You ignore the stats cause they don't support your opinion, then use wins as the end all be all. Wins and loses only matter for playoff teams, everyone else wins and loses are irrelevant!! Why? Cause if you're not in the playoffs you're not very good.


I'll ask again because you guys keep dodging the question.. Tell me why you can't admit that the Bills are in a better position than the Dolphins.I believe I covered the question with the paragraph above.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-06-2008, 05:05 PM
The 2005 Saints went from 3-13 worst in the NFL and first overall DP to the 2006 NFC Championship game. The 2005 Jets went from 4-12 to 10-6 and a playoff berth. BTW, both those teams did so with new FO's and HC's.

Miami lost 15 games last year but but lost 6 by 3 points or less and had a TON of key injuries, more so then any other team. If Zach,Yeremiah, Trent and Ronnie were all healthy the entire season we probably finish with 7 wins. So as much as you'd really like to believe Miami was a healthy 1-15 team they weren't. Miami's loss's to injuries were staggering.

Come draft day Miami will also have a lot of DP's to fill those wholes and FA will continue. And Miami has plenty of money to spend.

Very far away? You do realize Miami was 1-15 last year but still finished better on offense and Defense in 07 then the Bills? We started 6 RB's and never played the same secondary two games in a row in 07? Yet we still manage a better overall Defense the the 7 win Bills? What does that say about the Bills?

In the last two years Miami has finished both years with better stats on both sides of the ball and have more wins against teams with winning records?

You come here telling us how bad our team really is, but then your team has worse stats the last two years then the fins and your team is on the rise and the fins are getting worse? You ignore the stats cause they don't support your opinion, then use wins as the end all be all. Wins and loses only matter for playoff teams, everyone else wins and loses are irrelevant!! Why? Cause if you're not in the playoffs you're not very good.

I believe I covered the question with the paragraph above.So the games that the Dolphins lost by 3 points or less should be considered wins? Do that with the Bills and they are in the playoffs! You say that Miami had more injuries than any other team, do you realize that the Bills had 20 TWENTY guys on IR... that was good for most in the league. The Bills had 5 foot 5 Jimmy Leonhard starting at safety.

Your stats are flawed a bit, you say the Bills overall defense was worse that the Phins, that's inaccurate. The phins let up less yards than the Bills, but other than that the Bills were statistically better. They ended 18th in points allowed (they were top 12 before the New England thrashing). Do you know where the Dolphins ended? That's right, bottom of the league.

As far as the offense goes, I mentioned earlier that it was flawed. But that's getting fixed especially with the departure of Steve Fairchild. It's easier to fix an offense than it is to have to fix both offense and defense. Again, your phins are way behind the curve.

Justasportsfan
03-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Ya know what else doesn't matter? LAST YEAR. Last year has no effect on this year and just as little meaning..

If what you say is true then all the more the follwing quote has no bearing.


Contradictions? Not likely, You believe the Bills are a solid 9-7? Based on what, hope? The Bills only success in the NFL came in a brief 4 year span that happened in the early 90's, otherwise their existence has been nothing more then a foot note. BTW, you do realize a Bill fan started this thread proclaiming success before the fact, right? Based on minimal FA moves and 1 trade? Just like every year,right?

Just for grins and giggles, why don't you share with the rest of us how many wins he Bills have against winning teams the last three years. Then maybe we can rationalize their ability to win 9 games in 08.


Self contradiction.

Justasportsfan
03-06-2008, 05:22 PM
Miami lost 15 games last year but but lost 6 by 3 points or less and had a TON of key injuries, more so then any other team.

Very far away? You do realize Miami was 1-15 last year but still finished better on offense and Defense in 07 then the Bills? We started 6 RB's and never played the same secondary two games in a row in 07? Yet we still manage a better overall Defense the the 7 win Bills? What does that say about the Bills?

In the last two years Miami has finished both years with better stats on both sides of the ball and have more wins against teams with winning records?


I'll reply to this with this...


Ya know what else doesn't matter? LAST YEAR. Last year has no effect on this year and just as little meaning..

Another self contradiction



then hang their hats on 4 or 5 wins to claim how they will be better the following season just to come back the following spring to make the same exact claims.

Uh you're hanging your hat on a 1-15 season.

jp2lee783
03-06-2008, 05:52 PM
This is just stupid.

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 05:55 PM
So the games that the Dolphins lost by 3 points or less should be considered wins? Do that with the Bills and they are in the playoffs! You say that Miami had more injuries than any other team, do you realize that the Bills had 20 TWENTY guys on IR... that was good for most in the league. The Bills had 5 foot 5 Jimmy Leonhard starting at safety.

Did I say Miami's loses "were" wins? No! I said Miami was 1-15, but 6 of their loses were by 3 points or less. I also said If Zach, Trent, Ronnie and Yeremiah were healthy last year Miami could have been 7-9 instead of 1-15.


Your stats are flawed a bit, you say the Bills overall defense was worse that the Phins, that's inaccurate. The phins let up less yards than the Bills, but other than that the Bills were statistically better. They ended 18th in points allowed (they were top 12 before the New England thrashing). Do you know where the Dolphins ended? That's right, bottom of the league.

The Difference? The Bills lost one starter...who BTW was also a rookie, so you can't call the loss of Posluzny a huge loss. Miami lost a ton of starters last year, we should have struggled, the Bills were basically 7-9 with their starters. Or should I say the players "they" consider starters.


As far as the offense goes, I mentioned earlier that it was flawed. But that's getting fixed especially with the departure of Steve Fairchild. It's easier to fix an offense than it is to have to fix both offense and defense. Again, your phins are way behind the curve.

Didn't Bill fans claim they had one of the best Olines in football right all the money spent on FA's last year? Then Buffalo can't seem to produce better numbers then the 1-15 Dolphins? The problem with Bill fans is they think because they're team beats a 1-15 injured Dolphin team twice they somehow are on another level. Then the the teams with winning records play the Bills and the Bills can't seem to find a way to win, at home or on the road. How bout you wait till your team actually improves, before you start pointing fingres or telling everyone else how good you're "gonna be"!?

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 06:23 PM
If what you say is true then all the more the follwing quote has no bearing.




Self contradiction.

Here let me spell it out for you.....What "fans think" of last year, has no effect on the following year!

On the other hand, History shows teams can turn things around quickly, "if" they make the right moves.

Buffalo is notorious for being cheap especially under Wilson, it's why they won't be successful. Example: Rogers VS Stroud, Rogers was the better player, his stats support the fact, why is Stroud a Bill and not Rogers? Money!!! Obviously Bill fans have convinced themselves that Stroud is this huge addition, when clearly there was a better option, but since Stroud still represents an improvement over what you had, it's automatically a huge change for the Bills and well they must be a division front runner!! Uhhh, it doesn't work that way.

First of all Stroud hasn't been a great player in over two years now, which is why Jacksonville was willing to let him go. He has injury and off field issues. Buffalo may have upgraded what they had at DT but seriously, how hard was that to do??

Miami on the other hand is willing to do whatever it takes to win. I think the two teams history proves this to be true, as the Dolphins are ten times more successful then the Bills since day one.

The Bills Dolphins head to head match is so one sided it isn't even funny, the post season success is well in favor of the Dolphins. Obviously the Championships favor the Dolphins. And Miami is the younger franchise.

As you can see, there is a way to not be successful following a bad year and there is a way to be successful following a bad year. "The Bills philosophy" is why they won't succeed and the Dolphins philosophy is the reason why they could. The Bills don't do everything they can to improve, but at least the Dolphins try.

Either way is no guarantee, but odds favor the teams willing to go over and above. It's really sad that I need to spell this out for you...denial? I would say so.

Justasportsfan
03-06-2008, 07:21 PM
First of all Stroud hasn't been a great player in over two years now, which is why Jacksonville was willing to let him go. He has injury and off field issues. Buffalo may have upgraded what they had at DT but seriously, how hard was that to do?? last year is last year.


Miami on the other hand is willing to do whatever it takes to win. I think the two teams history proves this to be true, as the Dolphins are ten times more successful then the Bills since day one.

The Bills Dolphins head to head match is so one sided it isn't even funny, the post season success is well in favor of the Dolphins. Obviously the Championships favor the Dolphins. And Miami is the younger franchise.

As you can see, there is a way to not be successful following a bad year and there is a way to be successful following a bad year. "The Bills philosophy" is why they won't succeed and the Dolphins philosophy is the reason why they could. The Bills don't do everything they can to improve, but at least the Dolphins try.

Either way is no guarantee, but odds favor the teams willing to go over and above. It's really sad that I need to spell this out for you...denial? I would say so.If miami does what needs to be done to win , why are you 1-15?

Sad that you have to go back to all the way to 1970's.

FYI, someone said last year was last year.
Right now you are rebuilding. Just like when Saban was rebuilding or last year when you were rebuilding. Chances are you won't be better than the bills. Wanna make a bet?

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 08:04 PM
last year is last year.

As far as what the fans think, yes it is!!



If miami does what needs to be done to win , why are you 1-15?

I didn't say Miami "does" what needs to be done, I said Miami tries as hard as they can to do what they need to do to win. Shall I spell out the difference in above for you too, or do you actually see the difference?

Here this may help, Miami's owner gives the coaches and FO anything they feel they need to succeed without interference, Does Ralph do this? No, not even close. Just because the coaches are given whatever they need doesn't mean their decision will work out, but the odds favor the teams who's owners are willing to do whatever they can to ensure success. It's really very simple.



Sad that you have to go back to all the way to 1970's.

Ummm, I think if you go back and actually read what I wrote, you'll notice I talked about the teams entire history, not the "70's"! So I'm not real sure what the heck you're talking about.




FYI, someone said last year was last year.
Right now you are rebuilding. Just like when Saban was rebuilding or last year when you were rebuilding. Chances are you won't be better than the bills. Wanna make a bet?

Again I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, but Miami may very well be rebuilding and they may have been rebuilding since Saban was the HC. There are no guarantees in life, so you try to put yourself in the best position possible to succeed. Have the Bills be doing this?

Lets see, is Dick Juron the Best the Bills could do? No, but at the time he was cheaper then other options...what a shock.

Was Saban the best the Dolphins could do at the time? There sure seem to be a lot of teams that thought so. As he was very hot at the time.

The point, the Bills do whats best for their bottom line, the Dolphins don't have a bottom line. WH has basically been an open check book. Now I know you get this concept, so lets stop playing games. As for betting that's a an endeavor for the foolish because in this type of bet neither of us have control over the outcome and since I have no control, I have no desire to bet. Does it change the fact that the Bills philosophy is predicated on making money and the Dolphins philosophy is as Al Davis would say "just win baby". Miami has and always will have a better chance to succeed.

soflabillsfan
03-06-2008, 08:48 PM
The dolphins are a year behind the Bills. Thats just a fact.

feelthepain
03-06-2008, 08:53 PM
The dolphins are a year behind the Bills. Thats just a fact.

Nooo, that's an opinion.

soflabillsfan
03-06-2008, 08:56 PM
Nah, Bills have had 2 solid drafts, the fins have only 1 in the last two years.

Brassmonki14120
03-07-2008, 02:11 AM
I'm glad to hear someone call the Bills cheap, especially after everyone says that they overpaid D.Dockery and L Walker last year and some are even trying to say that the Bills spent too much for K. Mitchel.


There are no guarantees in life, so you try to put yourself in the best position possible to succeed. Have the Bills be doing this?


I believe they have. Miami on the other hand... not so much.

Passing on Quinn last year and taking Ted Ginn jr in the first round. There was a possibility the Phins could have built an Offense around Quinn but not Ginn jr. How about hiring M Mularkey after seeing what a train wreck he was in Buffalo when it came to calling plays, is that really the best the Dolphins could do. WH open checkbook was stuck shut when he had the choice between Brees and Pep, or keeping Zach but he couldn't stop writing zeros on the check he handed over to Joey Porter when the Defense didn't even need him. Was pushing Welker and Chambers out and embracing Ricky putting the team in the best position to succeed?

Teams make mistakes and pull some really bonehead moves sometimes but some of these things (see above) make it look like the Phins don't have a clue or is purposely trying to fail.

You can bash Jauron all you want and it wont change the fact that over the past few years he and both his GMs have done away with the circus act they came into and gave some respectability to the team. They have made some pretty good moves through Free Agency, the Draft and Trades as well.

The Dolphins have done poorly when it comes to Free Agency, The Draft and Trades. In recent years the Phins have done next to nothing to put themselves in the best position to succeed. If they were trying then they have been failing miserably.

Brassmonki14120
03-07-2008, 04:04 AM
Back to 8-8 maybe 9-7


TROUPE TO TAMPA
Reports from both Pewter Report and Adam Schefter of NFL Network indicate that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm#) have agreed to terms with tight end Ben Troupe (http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/3971) on a two-year deal. Troupe was a second-round pick of the Titans in 2004.

feelthepain
03-07-2008, 08:20 AM
The Dolphins have done poorly when it comes to Free Agency, The Draft and Trades. In recent years the Phins have done next to nothing to put themselves in the best position to succeed. If they were trying then they have been failing miserably.


I'm not going to get into how cheap the Bills are with you, because if you believe the Bills aren't cheap then you haven't been paying attention.

A far as how the Dolphins have done in FA, that has nothing to do with an owner who's willing to do what he can to make the team better. WH hires a man and gives them whatever they ask for without interfering. That's why Miami will always have a better chance to win.

Brassmonki14120
03-07-2008, 01:20 PM
A far as how the Dolphins have done in FA, that has nothing to do with an owner who's willing to do what he can to make the team better. WH hires a man and gives them whatever they ask for without interfering. That's why Miami will always have a better chance to win.

Then how come they don't?

feelthepain
03-07-2008, 02:21 PM
Then how come they don't?

They do, no team will be successful "every year", but Miami has been and will continue to be one of the most successful franchises in the NFL. I think the Dolphins are right on the heels of the Oakland Raiders for most wins ever in NFL history.

Brassmonki14120
03-07-2008, 03:02 PM
They do, no team will be successful "every year", but Miami has been and will continue to be one of the most successful franchises in the NFL. I think the Dolphins are right on the heels of the Oakland Raiders for most wins ever in NFL history.

This is a "what have you done for me lately" world and no one thinks Miami is a successful franchise. Don't believe me, next time your kid plays Madden tell him he can only use the Dolphins and watch him throw a fit. Or tell your buddies that you'll be drafting ANYONE from Miami in the first 4 rounds of your fantasy draft and watch the looks you get.

Maybe decades ago, some time in the last millenium, Miami was a feared and dominant team. I wont agrue that. But in the last several years the Dolphins have been a long running joke. From Wanny, to Ricky, to the Daunte led Super Bowl Contenders, to passing on Brady Quinn to select Ted Ginn jr, to the league's worst record of 1-15 just last season.

Now here we are in 2008 and for this years draft I'm seriously considering setting my kids drum kit up in the living room so I can do rim shots every time the Phins make a selection. Not to say that BP is going to draft crappy players but when it comes to todays Dolphins the punchline never seems to end.

Justasportsfan
03-07-2008, 03:23 PM
This is a "what have you done for me lately" world and no one thinks Miami is a successful franchise..Depends on who you are talking to.

FTP said the fins have a better chance of winning over the bills alst year. He'll keep saying that until he gets it right and then say I told you so after being wrong most of the time.

Justasportsfan
03-07-2008, 03:26 PM
As for betting that's a an endeavor for the foolish because in this type of bet neither of us have control over the outcome and since I have no control, I have no desire to bet. thought so.

I don't have control over the bills as well but I'm willing to back up my opinions . You say the fins will always have a better chance to win , back it up.

I'm not talking about a cash bet. just a banning bet. Whoever losses gets banned. You game?

feelthepain
03-07-2008, 09:01 PM
This is a "what have you done for me lately" world and no one thinks Miami is a successful franchise.

"No one thinks Miami is a successful franchise"? Maybe you should change the "No one", to "none of us Bill fans"!

feelthepain
03-07-2008, 09:03 PM
Depends on who you are talking to.

FTP said the fins have a better chance of winning over the bills alst year. He'll keep saying that until he gets it right and then say I told you so after being wrong most of the time.


And I'll never see a Bills SB victory in my lifetime.

feelthepain
03-07-2008, 09:13 PM
thought so.

I don't have control over the bills as well but I'm willing to back up my opinions . You say the fins will always have a better chance to win , back it up.


I never bet, how many times do I have to explain this to you. It has nothing to do with my opinion or what I believe.

carolinabillsfa
03-07-2008, 11:18 PM
Ted Ginn with the 9th overall pick. Thats how success starts right there.

Brassmonki14120
03-08-2008, 02:16 AM
And I'll never see a Bills SB victory in my lifetime.

I've never wished anybody dead before.

TomBradyWoot
03-08-2008, 02:17 AM
Ted Ginn with the 9th overall pick. Thats how success starts right there.


What?? Haven't you heard?? Ted Ginn (the guy they all hated on draft day yet fell in love with a week later) is the next Devin Hester/Steve Smith/Jerry Rice/Randy Moss/Torry Holt/Anquan Boldin all in one!!!!:sidelol:

TotoreMexico
03-08-2008, 02:43 AM
Ted Ginn with the 9th overall pick. Thats how success starts right there.

Want to talk about succes?

whitner with the 8th overall pick, now THAT'S what I call success

Aqua4Ever04
03-08-2008, 04:31 AM
I dont see why the Jets will be so bad. I can see all three rivals at .500 or better next year.

They have no answer at quarterback, they need running back help, and their receiving core is weak especially considering the Jets and Coles are in a contract dispute. Paying out their eyeballs for over rated free agents isn't going to help.

As it stands right now, I'd predict the division winds up like this.

New England 11-5
Buffalo 9-7
NY Jets 6-10
Miami 6-10

Then in 2009, I think division is completely up for grabs. I see the Bills getting stronger with each coming year while the Pats begin their decline and I firmly believe we've seen the end of the tainted dynasty. As for the Jets, in a couple of years they're going to have no idea what to do with these massive contracts they're dishing out. Parcells will have the Dolphins compeitive again really soon so I think this division will start getting pretty exciting as early as 2009 again.

Aqua4Ever04
03-08-2008, 04:32 AM
Man, I need to frequent this forum more often. I forgot just how silly our opposing fans sound most of the time.

GridIronKing34
03-08-2008, 04:41 AM
This is what I think we're going to be looking like:

New England 12-4
Buffalo 8-8
New York 6-10
Miami 5-11

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 10:40 AM
This is what I think we're going to be looking like:

New England 12-4
Buffalo 8-8
New York 6-10
Miami 5-11
That looks realistic, but I don't see how the Dolphins can improve by 4 wins but the Bills only improve by 1 win, and NY 2.... When the Jets and Bills both have had a better FA right now than Miami.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 10:43 AM
Want to talk about succes?

whitner with the 8th overall pick, now THAT'S what I call success
You mean the same Donte Whitner who statistically outperforms Michael Huff every year since being drafted?

p.s. Michael Huff went before him in the draft.

Statistically Whitner isn't far off from Bob Sanders... a few less tackles... sacks is where Sanders looks much better than Whitner.... but the Bills don't blitz the safeties. He has the same amount of turnovers as Sanders.

Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety.

He had a decent year last year and he had to pick up the slack from Jimmy Leonhard.

Jets81
03-08-2008, 11:22 AM
The Pats and Bills will be on top of the AFCE... The Jets and Phins will be on the bottom again.

We better hope for a great draft because, yes we got younger, but we haven't signed many big name players. reminiscent of what the Bills did when Levy was the GM.

Look, we know you guys are riding high after your "good" (by Bills fan standards) season last year. Even though it didn't end up with a playoff birth, and 4 of your 7 wins came against the Jets and Fins who both scored more points last season while undergoing big changes on the offensive side of the ball, and you got woefully embarrassed by the Pats, and blew that game on MNF, etc..

The Bills aren't a lock for anything next season.

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 11:35 AM
You mean the same Donte Whitner who statistically outperforms Michael Huff every year since being drafted?

p.s. Michael Huff went before him in the draft.

Statistically Whitner isn't far off from Bob Sanders... a few less tackles... sacks is where Sanders looks much better than Whitner.... but the Bills don't blitz the safeties. He has the same amount of turnovers as Sanders.

Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety.

He had a decent year last year and he had to pick up the slack from Jimmy Leonhard.


Really? Many here consider Jason Allen a bust, here are his numbers: 2007 for Allen 2006 for Simpson since Simpson did nothing in 07!

Jason Allen, 07'

G: 16

GS: 9

TKLS: 62

Sacks: 0

INT's: 3


Ko Simpson, 06'

G: 16

GS: 15

TKLS: 76

Sacks: 1

INT's: 2


You say " Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety." Since Allens numbers are basically the same shall we believe that same of him? Cause many Dolphin fans seem un-impressed with Allens numbers to this point, but you label Ko a future stud? A little homer love fest? Absolutely!!!!

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 12:10 PM
Look, we know you guys are riding high after your "good" (by Bills fan standards) season last year. Even though it didn't end up with a playoff birth, and 4 of your 7 wins came against the Jets and Fins who both scored more points last season while undergoing big changes on the offensive side of the ball, and you got woefully embarrassed by the Pats, and blew that game on MNF, etc..

The Bills aren't a lock for anything next season.

Bill fans consistently consider their record a success, no matter if they're 2 games under 500 or not. The Bills have a very tough time winning games against teams that are above 500, but their fans don't ever consider this when talking about a "successful 7-9 season". I emphasize "successful 7-9 season" because to them that's successful.

They come out every spring talking about two pickups that will put them on par with the Pats and a shot at the division tittle, but every year it's the same for them. They already have Trent Edwards a lock for success as they did with JP as they did with Rob Johnson. If one of their fans cautions the rest about their over reaction to the mild success, they're cast out as a bad egg, rather then understanding limited success is just that.

This is of course a result of never having success and living off the tiniest glimmer of hope as a fan. Oh but they beat the Jets and Dolphins twice last year so they're light years ahead of everyone in the division that lost to them, like every year doesn't bring change and what happened last year has zero effect on the next year. When your favorite team has never given you as a fan anything worthy of remembering, you tend to over react to every little thing that's positive and expect respect from it.

The Bill fans also refuse to accept the fact the their beloved Bills never seem to land the Randy Mosses and Terrell Owens of the world instead they get the "hey, I'll play for less kinda talent" or "hey, I'll coach for less" then the Bill fans convince themselves they have the same talent. Example: Stroud! Hasn't done much of anything the last two years missed a ton of games has issue with injuries and performance enhancing drugs, enough so to get him suspended for most of the year, but Bill fans use his signing to give their team the best grade in FA even though Stroud wasn't a FA. It's laughable the way Bill fans react and talk about their team then trash everyone else's teams.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Really? Many here consider Jason Allen a bust, here are his numbers: 2007 for Allen 2006 for Simpson since Simpson did nothing in 07!

Jason Allen, 07'

G: 16

GS: 9

TKLS: 62

Sacks: 0

INT's: 3


Ko Simpson, 06'

G: 16

GS: 15

TKLS: 76

Sacks: 1

INT's: 2


You say " Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety." Since Allens numbers are basically the same shall we believe that same of him? Cause many Dolphin fans seem un-impressed with Allens numbers to this point, but you label Ko a future stud? A little homer love fest? Absolutely!!!!I think most fans are unimpressed with his ability to tackle and that he constantly gets beat deep. Whitner on the other hand almost always tackles the guy he hits and rarely gets caught out of position.

soflabillsfan
03-08-2008, 01:03 PM
Really? Many here consider Jason Allen a bust, here are his numbers: 2007 for Allen 2006 for Simpson since Simpson did nothing in 07!

Jason Allen, 07'

G: 16

GS: 9

TKLS: 62

Sacks: 0

INT's: 3


Ko Simpson, 06'

G: 16

GS: 15

TKLS: 76

Sacks: 1

INT's: 2


You say " Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety." Since Allens numbers are basically the same shall we believe that same of him? Cause many Dolphin fans seem un-impressed with Allens numbers to this point, but you label Ko a future stud? A little homer love fest? Absolutely!!!!
Ko was a 4th round draft pic and Allen was a 1st rounder. Thats why people are on Allen. More is expected sooner out of a 1st rounder.

soflabillsfan
03-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Look, we know you guys are riding high after your "good" (by Bills fan standards) season last year. Even though it didn't end up with a playoff birth, and 4 of your 7 wins came against the Jets and Fins who both scored more points last season while undergoing big changes on the offensive side of the ball, and you got woefully embarrassed by the Pats, and blew that game on MNF, etc..

The Bills aren't a lock for anything next season. And we didn't undergo any changes on the offensive side of the ball? We started a rookie Qb and RB!

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:09 PM
I think most fans are unimpressed with his ability to tackle and that he constantly gets beat deep. Whitner on the other hand almost always tackles the guy he hits and rarely gets caught out of position.

Yet their numbers are identical, I guess the difference is KO is a Bill and Jason is a Dolphin or maybe it's because Dolphin fans don't think every young player on their teams roster roster is a stud in the making. It seems to me no matter what anyone says about a Bill player team or coach, Bill fans have "one" stat that they use to separate the avg. from the outstanding.

You do notice you consider Ko an outstanding young prospect simply because you theorize he has slightly more ability to tackle then Jason? And I find it odd that the Bills players, coaches or teams always seem to be on the upside of every comparison when a Bill fan is speaking. If not, just read your last two post where you clearly think Ko is the better player even though his stats hardly support that opinion.

TotoreMexico
03-08-2008, 01:11 PM
You mean the same Donte Whitner who statistically outperforms Michael Huff every year since being drafted?

p.s. Michael Huff went before him in the draft.

Statistically Whitner isn't far off from Bob Sanders... a few less tackles... sacks is where Sanders looks much better than Whitner.... but the Bills don't blitz the safeties. He has the same amount of turnovers as Sanders.

Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety.

He had a decent year last year and he had to pick up the slack from Jimmy Leonhard.

You mean the same Michael Huff who is on the TRADING BLOCK? That Michael Huff?

And LMAO @ "whitner is and will be a force in this league", Jason Allen who has much less playing time has already more int's than him

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:12 PM
And we didn't undergo any changes on the offensive side of the ball? We started a rookie Qb and RB!

And the teams overall statistics support the fact, but according to Bill fans their nearly last place offense should be feared in the 2008 season. Because their young rookies will not be rookies anymore. Only in Buffalo.

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:14 PM
Ko was a 4th round draft pic and Allen was a 1st rounder. Thats why people are on Allen. More is expected sooner out of a 1st rounder.

And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick....your point, is irrelevant.

soflabillsfan
03-08-2008, 01:22 PM
And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick....your point, is irrelevant.
How so? More is expected out of a 1st round pick. There is less patience for a guy like Allen.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:25 PM
How so? More is expected out of a 1st round pick. There is less patience for a guy like Allen.not to mention they are comparing Allen's second season against Ko's first season!

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:28 PM
You mean the same Michael Huff who is on the TRADING BLOCK? That Michael Huff?

And LMAO @ "whitner is and will be a force in this league", Jason Allen who has much less playing time has already more int's than himRight... your point was that the Bills took Donte too high... I'm arguing that he outplays another safety taken higher in the exact same draft! Thank you for helping my point... you rock!

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:30 PM
How so? More is expected out of a 1st round pick. There is less patience for a guy like Allen.

How so? Because it doesn't matter where you're drafted it matters where you play. Just because you have first round talent doesn't mean the system you play in, fits you best. Plus the fact that there are many players through the history of the NFL that are are sleepers and busts. Remember the draft is a projection, not a fact. There is also less expectation and pressure on a 4th round player then there is on a 1st. I think your view of this situation is typical for Bill fans. You only see what you want, to prove your point. There is far more that goes into a players success then where he's drafted.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:30 PM
and you guys are the ones making the comparison. I never mentioned Jason Allen... I never said he was a bad player! What I said was that Donte is a good player, he is a solid tackler and rarely gets caught out of position. If Allen has comparable stats, the he is probably going to be a great safety too.

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:32 PM
not to mention they are comparing Allen's second season against Ko's first season!

Hmmmm, do you have proof Ko's second season would have been better? No! But it's yet another example of Bill fans putting the cart before the horse.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:33 PM
How so? Because it doesn't matter where you're drafted it matters where you play. Just because you have first round talent doesn't mean the system you play in, fits you best. Plus the fact that there are many players through the history of the NFL that are are sleepers and busts. Remember the draft is a projection, not a fact. There is also less expectation and pressure on a 4th round player then there is on a 1st. I think your view of this situation is typical for Bill fans. You only see what you want, to prove your point. There is far more that goes into a players success then where he's drafted.
Your clearly not listening to him and your arguments are weak. What he is saying is that FANS expect more out of a guy that is drafted in the first round. That is why your fans aren't to fond of Will Allen, while our fans can be fond of Ko Simpson because he was drafted in the 4th round and not expected to start, but when he did he had a decent season... less was expected but when he produced it was a pleasant surprise... more is expected of Will Allen and if he doesn't produce... like you know, not even starting one game his rookie year, fans will get upset.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:34 PM
Hmmmm, do you have proof Ko's second season would have been better? No! But it's yet another example of Bill fans putting the cart before the horse.
Did I say it would have been better? Most of the time it is because players get acclimated to the speed of the game, get comfortable with the system they are in and gel with players around them... you know this.

TotoreMexico
03-08-2008, 01:38 PM
Right... your point was that the Bills took Donte too high... I'm arguing that he outplays another safety taken higher in the exact same draft! Thank you for helping my point... you rock!

1 spot higher, and that player is on the trading block right now. And I'm not too sure about outplaying him

Huff:

Tackles: 138
SFTY: 1
PDef: 12
Int: 1

Whitner:

Tackles: 135
SFTY: 0
Pdef: 5
Int: 2

Please explain how is that outplaying him?

You're welcome

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Do you know why there aren't many other Dolphins fans arguing with you? Because they know your wrong!

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:39 PM
and you guys are the ones making the comparison. I never mentioned Jason Allen... I never said he was a bad player! What I said was that Donte is a good player, he is a solid tackler and rarely gets caught out of position. If Allen has comparable stats, the he is probably going to be a great safety too.

You're missing the point, us Dolphins fans don't consider Jason a stud based on those numbers. Bill fans do with Ko! It's the point of the overall thread, Bill fans see a glimmer and run with it based on little to nothing. They do this with every coach, player and team. Ko isn't a pro bowler but to listen to Bill fans he is. Enough already, let them become what you want them to be, before you blow air up their skirts.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:40 PM
1 spot higher, and that player is on the trading block right now. And I'm not too sure about outplaying him

Huff:

Tackles: 138
SFTY: 1
PDef: 12
Int: 1

Whitner:

Tackles: 135
SFTY: 0
Pdef: 5
Int: 2

Please explain how is that outplating him?

You're welcomeAnd a forced fumble... All take 3 less tackles for another turn over any day.

Nasty Mcgahee
03-08-2008, 01:42 PM
You're missing the point, us Dolphins fans don't consider Jason a stud based on those numbers. Bill fans do with Ko! It's the point of the overall thread, Bill fans see a glimmer and run with it based on little to nothing. They do this with every coach, player and team. Ko isn't a pro bowler but to listen to Bill fans he is. Enough already, let them become what you want them to be, before you blow air up their skirts.
Read a couple of posts above about draft picks and it will answer your question. This is getting ridiculous. You argue in circles... it's getting quite comical.

Fact: Phins were 1-15.

Fact: They are not very good

Fact: They are rebuilding

That's it... end of discussion.

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:44 PM
And a forced fumble... All take 3 less tackles for another turn over any day.

Are you really being serious with this argument? Bill fans over evaluate every single Bill player.

TotoreMexico
03-08-2008, 01:46 PM
And a forced fumble... All take 3 less tackles for another turn over any day.

In 2007

Huff:

Sack: 1
FF: 1

Whitner:

Sack: 0
FF: 1

You're welcome

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 01:48 PM
Fact: Bills were 7-9

Fact: They are not very good

Fact: They are "always" rebuilding

That's it... end of discussion.

Jets81
03-08-2008, 02:57 PM
And we didn't undergo any changes on the offensive side of the ball? We started a rookie Qb and RB!

Everyone but the Pats started an inexperienced QB last season, so cross that off the list. A rookie RB can improve a team in his rookie season, much less of a learning curve then at QB.

The Bills haven't qualified for the post season since 99' right? If thats the case they're in danger of going 0 for the decade. Not the kind of team you pencil in at the top of the standings before a season starts.

carolinabillsfa
03-08-2008, 02:59 PM
Really? Many here consider Jason Allen a bust, here are his numbers: 2007 for Allen 2006 for Simpson since Simpson did nothing in 07!

Jason Allen, 07'

G: 16

GS: 9

TKLS: 62

Sacks: 0

INT's: 3


Ko Simpson, 06'

G: 16

GS: 15

TKLS: 76

Sacks: 1

INT's: 2


You say " Whitner is and will be a force in this league... a top notch safety." Since Allens numbers are basically the same shall we believe that same of him? Cause many Dolphin fans seem un-impressed with Allens numbers to this point, but you label Ko a future stud? A little homer love fest? Absolutely!!!!



FTP Donte Whitner is not Ko Simpson. You do know this right?

feelthepain
03-08-2008, 03:25 PM
FTP Donte Whitner is not Ko Simpson. You do know this right?

Yeah, somehow in the past thirty threads I inserted Ko's numbers instead of Whitners.

Brassmonki14120
03-08-2008, 05:25 PM
Are you really being serious with this argument? Bill fans over evaluate every single Bill player.

I've always been very realistic when posting here.


Bill fans see a glimmer and run with it based on little to nothing.

Says the man with the John Beck avatar.

carolinabillsfa
03-08-2008, 06:36 PM
Ko Simpson a 4th round draft picks rookie statistics are being compared to Jason Allen's, who was a 1st round draft pick, second year statistics.

That is just borderline rediculous while trying to tell everybody that Ko Simpson should be labeled as some sort of bust.

soflabillsfan
03-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Everyone but the Pats started an inexperienced QB last season, so cross that off the list. A rookie RB can improve a team in his rookie season, much less of a learning curve then at QB.

The Bills haven't qualified for the post season since 99' right? If thats the case they're in danger of going 0 for the decade. Not the kind of team you pencil in at the top of the standings before a season starts. You were wrong, just admit it.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-08-2008, 07:12 PM
Please comment only on the subject, not the poster. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Fact: Bills were 7-9

Fact: They are not very good

Fact: They are "always" rebuilding

That's it... end of discussion.

1-15

Losers of 6 straight to the Bills, should be 8 but thanks to Mularkey, the Bills blew a 20 point lead (who you probably thought was an offensive genius).

Crisis
03-08-2008, 08:01 PM
Fact: Bills were 7-9

Fact: They are not very good

Fact: They are "always" rebuilding

That's it... end of discussion.

Fact: Miami was 1-15

Fact: They are TERRIBLE

Fact: They never rebuild, they reload on washed up has beens and have another losing season.

Jets81
03-08-2008, 08:58 PM
You were wrong, just admit it.

I don't admit to being wrong when I'm not wrong..

Aqua4Ever04
03-09-2008, 04:31 PM
The truth is we, as Dolphins fans, have no room to talk in terms of our team. But that doesn't nullify our rights to ***** and analyize other teams and their problems. Just because our team isn't very good right now doesn't mean our points about your team are false. So enough with that "You guys were 1-15, NUFF SAID" crap because it holds no validity.

Now, I happen to think the Bills are on the upcome. You guys are going to be very pleased with Marcus Stroud and Kawika Mitchell. They will help your lack luster run defense this coming season and are definitely upgrades. I'm currently watching the Bills vs. Broncos game from last season and I am terrified of Marshawn Lynch. He's not as good as Ronnie Brown, but he's a damn good running back. Your offensive line is mamoth, that's the only way to describe it, that unit is solid.

The red flags I see with the Bills is their victories last year. Every year in the AFC East a team not named the Patriots pops up with an over rated winning streak. In 2005, it was the Dolphins who won 6 straight against less then worth opponents. In 2006, the Jets had no business being in the playoffs but got in with one of the worst offenses in football. Last year, the Bills eeked out a victory over the winless Dolphins in week 11 (I believe it was) and compiled 3 other wins against terrible Jets and Dolphins teams.

Trent Edwards isn't a game chaning quarterback at this level. He could be your Trent Dilfer care taker and I'm not saying he can't win you a Super Bowl, but he'll need a terrific team around him to do so.

With all that said, I think the Bills will be around .500 next year.

Wagon Circler
03-09-2008, 04:50 PM
I feel really good about what the bills have done so far in the offseason. I will be really excited if they can draft a big receiver, my preference Limas Sweed.

Aqua4Ever04
03-09-2008, 04:54 PM
I feel really good about what the bills have done so far in the offseason. I will be really excited if they can draft a big receiver, my preference Limas Sweed.

If Malcolm Kelly is on the board and the Bills take a differernt receiver, I will laugh, a lot. Kelly is the far superior receiver in this draft and I'm none too happy about the prospect of him going to the Bills.

Wagon Circler
03-09-2008, 05:45 PM
I disagree with that statement. I believe Sweed is the best WR prospect in the draft.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-09-2008, 11:11 PM
The truth is we, as Dolphins fans, have no room to talk in terms of our team. But that doesn't nullify our rights to ***** and analyize other teams and their problems. Just because our team isn't very good right now doesn't mean our points about your team are false. So enough with that "You guys were 1-15, NUFF SAID" crap because it holds no validity.

Now, I happen to think the Bills are on the upcome. You guys are going to be very pleased with Marcus Stroud and Kawika Mitchell. They will help your lack luster run defense this coming season and are definitely upgrades. I'm currently watching the Bills vs. Broncos game from last season and I am terrified of Marshawn Lynch. He's not as good as Ronnie Brown, but he's a damn good running back. Your offensive line is mamoth, that's the only way to describe it, that unit is solid.

The red flags I see with the Bills is their victories last year. Every year in the AFC East a team not named the Patriots pops up with an over rated winning streak. In 2005, it was the Dolphins who won 6 straight against less then worth opponents. In 2006, the Jets had no business being in the playoffs but got in with one of the worst offenses in football. Last year, the Bills eeked out a victory over the winless Dolphins in week 11 (I believe it was) and compiled 3 other wins against terrible Jets and Dolphins teams.

Trent Edwards isn't a game chaning quarterback at this level. He could be your Trent Dilfer care taker and I'm not saying he can't win you a Super Bowl, but he'll need a terrific team around him to do so.

With all that said, I think the Bills will be around .500 next year.

Vwery fair response. however, the part in bold makes no sense. Aren't you Fins fans pining your hopes on Beck? Well, Edwards was a 3rd round rookie and proven a hell of a lot more than Beck. But you guys aren't gonna give up on Beck are you? Point is, it's really silly to make any type of assumptions based on a player's rookie season.

Additionally (and I don't feel like digging through the stats again) but Edwards completed more 20 yard passes per pass attempt than Brady and Manning in their first years as starters. Of course it doesn't mean anything but it shows that Edwards may be more than a Dilfer type. Time will tell.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-09-2008, 11:13 PM
If Malcolm Kelly is on the board and the Bills take a differernt receiver, I will laugh, a lot. Kelly is the far superior receiver in this draft and I'm none too happy about the prospect of him going to the Bills.


I really hated the idea of taking a receiver in the first because I don't think that's how good teams are built, but with the moves the Bills made, I could live with Kelly. He's a beast and the best freestyler in the draft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RiitZEHxA

Aqua4Ever04
03-10-2008, 12:21 AM
Vwery fair response. however, the part in bold makes no sense. Aren't you Fins fans pining your hopes on Beck? Well, Edwards was a 3rd round rookie and proven a hell of a lot more than Beck. But you guys aren't gonna give up on Beck are you? Point is, it's really silly to make any type of assumptions based on a player's rookie season.

Additionally (and I don't feel like digging through the stats again) but Edwards completed more 20 yard passes per pass attempt than Brady and Manning in their first years as starters. Of course it doesn't mean anything but it shows that Edwards may be more than a Dilfer type. Time will tell.

John Beck has nothing to do with that. But to answer, I think Beck will have a better career then Edwards. No quarterback would've succeeded in Miami last year, much less a rookie. Edwards was pampered a little last year and was put in position to methodically move the ball downfield with very little chance of making a mistake. That's why he had just 1 touchdown prior to playing our joke of a defense.

I do agree that it's senseless to base a player's future solely on a rookie season, fair point there.

I think Edwards will be a "good" starting quarterback for you guys for several years. But again, I don't ever see him being a great, nor do I think Beck will be etching his name in Canton.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-10-2008, 12:29 AM
John Beck has nothing to do with that. But to answer, I think Beck will have a better career then Edwards. No quarterback would've succeeded in Miami last year, much less a rookie. Edwards was pampered a little last year and was put in position to methodically move the ball downfield with very little chance of making a mistake. That's why he had just 1 touchdown prior to playing our joke of a defense.

I do agree that it's senseless to base a player's future solely on a rookie season, fair point there.

I think Edwards will be a "good" starting quarterback for you guys for several years. But again, I don't ever see him being a great, nor do I think Beck will be etching his name in Canton.

Again, fair response though I have no idea how you could say Beck will have a better career than Edwards. Our offense was worst than yours. Basically, if you double Lee Evans, we are screw. Josh Reed may be the worst #2 receiver in the league (though he is a solid #3) and our TEs suck. I really believe if we get an upgrade at this two positions, TE will really have a breakout year. Don't forget Brady (and trust me, I'm not at all saying Edwards will come close to him) was known as a checkdown QB during the early part of his career. I'd rather have a smart QB who gets the ball into his playmakers' hands than a guy with a rocket arm who jsut chucks it (Losman and Culpepper).

And you're right about him limiting his mistakes and litting up your d to pad his stats. But I will also point out that he had 2 first half tds against the Super Bowl champs and badly outplayed Manning before Jason Petters got injuried and a monsoon hit.

Aqua4Ever04
03-10-2008, 01:11 AM
I really hated the idea of taking a receiver in the first because I don't think that's how good teams are built, but with the moves the Bills made, I could live with Kelly. He's a beast and the best freestyler in the draft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RiitZEHxA

Malcolm Kelly will be a great player in the NFL, I'd put some of my rep on that.

Aqua4Ever04
03-10-2008, 01:16 AM
Again, fair response though I have no idea how you could say Beck will have a better career than Edwards. Our offense was worst than yours. Basically, if you double Lee Evans, we are screw. Josh Reed may be the worst #2 receiver in the league (though he is a solid #3) and our TEs suck. I really believe if we get an upgrade at this two positions, TE will really have a breakout year. Don't forget Brady (and trust me, I'm not at all saying Edwards will come close to him) was known as a checkdown QB during the early part of his career. I'd rather have a smart QB who gets the ball into his playmakers' hands than a guy with a rocket arm who jsut chucks it (Losman and Culpepper).

And you're right about him limiting his mistakes and litting up your d to pad his stats. But I will also point out that he had 2 first half tds against the Super Bowl champs and badly outplayed Manning before Jason Petters got injuried and a monsoon hit.

What receiver on our offense commanded that respect? When Beck came in, Chambers was gone, Ronnie and Chatman were banged up, Booker missed some time, Hagan dropped everything (as did Martin), and or offensive line was busy starting fights on the team plane with Keith Traylor.

I agree about the intelligent quarterback remark. I think Beck and Edwards both fit those bills. I'm one that thinks David Garrard is one of the NFL's best quarterbacks while Vince Young is hands down the worst starting QB in the NFL.

Hopefully it turns into a nice Kelly/Marino rivalry again.:up: Just as long as we're the ones winning the championships.

Edwards looked really good vs. Miami. He kept improving down the stretch of the season (minus that Cleveland game where no QB would look good) but I'm not ready to anoint his greatness yet. Like you said earlier, rookie years are hardly indicitive of what you'll see in a player's career. (See Drew Brees and Peyton Manning.)

Brassmonki14120
03-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Just because our team isn't very good right now doesn't mean our points about your team are false. So enough with that "You guys were 1-15, NUFF SAID" crap because it holds no validity.


True dat in bold. But not many of those points are realistic and some are just plain funny.

I do hope that Miami and Buffalo can find some young QB's that can renew the rivalry as well. Some of my fondest football memories are of hating your boy Dan. I used to love to hate him, I swear my wife had to break me from spitting at the TV when the isotoner comercials came on.

As far as the "You guys are 1-15" stuff you're just going to have to live with it because that is your current record. You can live with it for 1 offseason.

Aqua4Ever04
03-10-2008, 03:50 PM
True dat in bold. But not many of those points are realistic and some are just plain funny.

I do hope that Miami and Buffalo can find some young QB's that can renew the rivalry as well. Some of my fondest football memories are of hating your boy Dan. I used to love to hate him, I swear my wife had to break me from spitting at the TV when the isotoner comercials came on.

As far as the "You guys are 1-15" stuff you're just going to have to live with it because that is your current record. You can live with it for 1 offseason.

The past 6 or 7 years has made the AFC East very boring. I too love the days of when there would be three teams battling for the division while the last place team remained competitive. Recently, it's just been a battle for 2nd while the Pats crush all opponents. I hate the Pats, Jets and Bills, but I'd rather see a competitive division. Hopefully Beck, Edwards and Clemens can be quality starting quarterbacks for a few years. But at this point, I'd love to see the Pats go 0-16 for the next 5 or 6 years.

It doesn't really bother me. It just irks me when I say something negative about the Bills, Jets or Pats, and one of those fans comes back with, "Like you have room to talk!" That's just dumb and is a sign of conceeding the argument. So when I read that, that's my interpertation.

Brassmonki14120
03-11-2008, 12:29 PM
It doesn't really bother me. It just irks me when I say something negative about the Bills, Jets or Pats, and one of those fans comes back with, "Like you have room to talk!" That's just dumb and is a sign of conceeding the argument. So when I read that, that's my interpertation.

LOL, Welcome to my world.

The conversations start out something like this:

Fan #1-
"Beck is going to have a hard time again this season unless you pick up a couple of big blocking TE's and maybe some more depth for the O-Line."

Fan #2-
"what do you know, 36 years ago we put together the only perfect season! Yea we rule!"

Fan #1-
"Yeah that was a great season the Phins had 36 years ago, the year I was born. Now let's see if we can talk about this season. The Bills made a few good FA moves and made a pretty good trade, all for need positions. On the other hand I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't get Troupe or McIntyre signed and it really worries me that Johnson hasn't inked a deal with Buffalo yet."

Fan #3-
"Troupe, Mc, ans Johnson must have heard about the 4 Superbowl losses Buffalo suffered back in the '90s. You will never sign any good players because of what happened 2 decades ago."

Fan #1-
"Yeah Miami has been making some great moves. Wanny, JJ, Saban, Cam, MM, Ricky, Fiedler, Feely, Porter, your entire O-Line last year, cutting Zach..."

Fan #2-
"Last year is in the past and has no bearing on this year. Zach is old and his time is past... Blah Blah Blah."

Fan #1-
"But you just brought up stuff from 36 years ago?"

Fan #3-
"Oh man, 36 years ago. That when the Phins had their perfect season... yadda yadda, blah blah..."
******************************************************

LOL I just had a 3 person arguement all by myself and I didn't win any of them. But you get what I mean right?

Wagon Circler
03-11-2008, 07:48 PM
LOL, Welcome to my world.

The conversations start out something like this:

Fan #1-
"Beck is going to have a hard time again this season unless you pick up a couple of big blocking TE's and maybe some more depth for the O-Line."

Fan #2-
"what do you know, 36 years ago we put together the only perfect season! Yea we rule!"

Fan #1-
"Yeah that was a great season the Phins had 36 years ago, the year I was born. Now let's see if we can talk about this season. The Bills made a few good FA moves and made a pretty good trade, all for need positions. On the other hand I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't get Troupe or McIntyre signed and it really worries me that Johnson hasn't inked a deal with Buffalo yet."

Fan #3-
"Troupe, Mc, ans Johnson must have heard about the 4 Superbowl losses Buffalo suffered back in the '90s. You will never sign any good players because of what happened 2 decades ago."

Fan #1-
"Yeah Miami has been making some great moves. Wanny, JJ, Saban, Cam, MM, Ricky, Fiedler, Feely, Porter, your entire O-Line last year, cutting Zach..."

Fan #2-
"Last year is in the past and has no bearing on this year. Zach is old and his time is past... Blah Blah Blah."

Fan #1-
"But you just brought up stuff from 36 years ago?"

Fan #3-
"Oh man, 36 years ago. That when the Phins had their perfect season... yadda yadda, blah blah..."
******************************************************

LOL I just had a 3 person arguement all by myself and I didn't win any of them. But you get what I mean right?
So true Monkey

Aqua4Ever04
03-12-2008, 03:35 AM
You guys are just talking to the wrong fans. Every fan base has those kind of "fans."

feelthepain
03-12-2008, 07:09 AM
Vwery fair response. however, the part in bold makes no sense. Aren't you Fins fans pining your hopes on Beck? Well, Edwards was a 3rd round rookie and proven a hell of a lot more than Beck. But you guys aren't gonna give up on Beck are you? Point is, it's really silly to make any type of assumptions based on a player's rookie season.

Additionally (and I don't feel like digging through the stats again) but Edwards completed more 20 yard passes per pass attempt than Brady and Manning in their first years as starters. Of course it doesn't mean anything but it shows that Edwards may be more than a Dilfer type. Time will tell.


Typical Bill fan opinion. Everything the Bills do is always better when their telling the story. What has Edwards proven? That he can be pulled from a game and be replaced by JP Losman? That he can have avg. stats? That he can't play well in cold weather, not a good sign for a QB in Buffalo? Funny how others see the whole picture.

Lets see:


John Beck:

G/GS- 5/4

TD's- 1

INT's- 3

passing yards- 559

completion pct.- 56.1

QB rating- 62.0


Trent Edwards:

G/GS- 10/9

TD's- 7

INT's- 8

passing yards- 1630

completion pct.- 56.1

QB rating- 70.4

This exactly what I mean by "typical Bill fan opinion", there is so little to go off of on either players stats, but as usual Bill fans consider that a "hell of a lot more proven"! As usual it's a laughable opinion. Trent only had one game where he threw more TD's then INT's. Different situations, different circumstances, different teams, different philosophies. But of course Trent's numbers are superior!!

BTW, Ronnie Brown was out for 10 games last year, just curious...do you think his presence would have helped Beck at all? Can't wait for this response. Oh and before you respond, Ronnie was leading the league in total yards from the LOS when he was injured, I'd say he was playing rather well when he went down!!

Brassmonki14120
03-12-2008, 01:24 PM
I'd say he was playing rather well when he went down!!
He plays well every year until he goes down.

Edwards in the pocket is cool customer, he never looks rattled, he goes through his checkdowns and looked confident.

Beck was a mess most of the time. 7 fumbles in 5 incomplete games. Most of the time he looked like he was about to have a nervous breakdown.

feelthepain
03-12-2008, 01:58 PM
He plays well every year until he goes down.

Edwards in the pocket is cool customer, he never looks rattled, he goes through his checkdowns and looked confident.

Beck was a mess most of the time. 7 fumbles in 5 incomplete games. Most of the time he looked like he was about to have a nervous breakdown.

Amazing how Bill fans try so hard to lift their players above everyone else's. Even though both QB's basically put up the same kinda numbers, Trent is of course better, cause Bill fans say so. Gotta love it. I guess you'll be a playoff team now, now that you have yet another superstar QB in the making, right?

Brassmonki14120
03-12-2008, 02:17 PM
Amazing how Bill fans try so hard to lift their players above everyone else's. Even though both QB's basically put up the same kinda numbers, Trent is of course better, cause Bill fans say so. Gotta love it. I guess you'll be a playoff team now, now that you have yet another superstar QB in the making, right?

Not because Bills fans say so but because anybody that watched the 2 QB's play this season says so.

Are you saying that Beck looked confident behind center? Trent did.

Looked calm and collected in the pocket? Trent did.

Went through his checkdowns? Trent did.

Threw with a purpose and not just trying to get rid of the ball? Trent did.

Beck was also yanked from games he started because of poor play.

I'm not saying that Edwards is the next Brady or Manning. What I am saying is that he was the better QB last season when it came down to Trent and Beck.


you have yet another superstar QB in the making

You said it, not me.

Justasportsfan
03-12-2008, 04:08 PM
You're missing the point, us Dolphins fans don't consider Jason a stud based on those numbers. Bill fans do with Ko! It's the point of the overall thread, Bill fans see a glimmer and run with it based on little to nothing. They do this with every coach, player and team. Ko isn't a pro bowler but to listen to Bill fans he is. Enough already, let them become what you want them to be, before you blow air up their skirts.

I really don't think you should be generalizing. Especially since it's a known fact that hardly any finfan agree with your posts. So i don't think you should be saying bills fans or "us Dolphin fans"

Justasportsfan
03-12-2008, 04:15 PM
I never bet, Translation : I never back up my my beliefs

Justasportsfan
03-12-2008, 04:17 PM
I never mentioned Jason Allen... I never said he was a bad player!

I'll say it. He sucks especially if you take into consideration where he was drafted.

feelthepain
03-12-2008, 05:00 PM
I really don't think you should be generalizing. Especially since it's a known fact that hardly any finfan agree with your posts. So i don't think you should be saying bills fans or "us Dolphin fans"

Oh yeah you must have proof somewhere. Cause I sure can prove not many Bill fans give you an ounce of credit, and for good reason.

feelthepain
03-12-2008, 05:06 PM
Translation : I never back up my my beliefs


Translation: I'm wise enough to know better then to bet on things I don't control. You on the other hand, not so much.

Vertical Limit
03-12-2008, 05:18 PM
I'll say it. He sucks especially if you take into consideration where he was drafted.
Umm, where are the supporting facts or are you saying Donte Whitner sucked last year?

Jason Allen on 6 games less starting than Whitner had 2 more interceptions, 2 more pass defended, 55 solo tackles [62 total] on 9 games starting compared to Whitner 68 solo tackles [89 total], 1 pass defended and 1 interception in 15 games starting.

That of course, considering where Donte Whitner [8th overall] was drafted compared to Jason Allen [16th overall]. :rolleyes2:

feelthepain
03-12-2008, 05:33 PM
Umm, where are the supporting facts or are you saying Donte Whitner sucked last year?

Jason Allen on almost half as many games starting than Whitner had 2 more interceptions, 2 more pass defended, 55 solo tackles [62 total] on 9 games starting compared to Whitner 68 solo tackles [89 total], 1 pass defended and 1 interception in 15 games starting.

That of course, considering where Donte Whitner [8th overall] was drafted compared to Jason Allen [16th overall]. :rolleyes2:


Yeah see when trying to talk football with Justabillfan, understand his team is always better....no matter what.

Wagon Circler
03-12-2008, 09:14 PM
Well the bills made some moves and are looking good before the draft. When the draft is over the team will look even better. I'm confident they will draft well.

feelthepain
03-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Well the bills made some moves and are looking good before the draft. When the draft is over the team will look even better. I'm confident they will draft well.

Really, what moves would they be, cause I'm not impressed given the amount of money the Bills are sitting on.

Brassmonki14120
03-13-2008, 12:48 AM
Yeah see when trying to talk football with Justabillfan, understand his team is always better....no matter what.

No that is you.

The phins went 1-15 last season so to be honest everybody's team is better than yours.

Brassmonki14120
03-13-2008, 01:04 AM
Really, what moves would they be, cause I'm not impressed given the amount of money the Bills are sitting on.

The only impressive thing the phins have done this offseason is convincing BP to join the organization.

Nothing else that the team has done has been spectacular. Yes people are saying that the phins have improved but they are the worst team in the entire NFL. They won a single game, just 1 game. 2 wins this season is doubling Miami's win total from last seaon, 2 wins would be an improvement. The phins could sign Ryan Leaf and it would be an improvement.


In keeping with the topic:
The Bills went 7-9 last season, not even .500. The Bills did add some need TALENT to the roster and with those additions and being a realist I can see the Bills topping out at 9-7.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-13-2008, 01:05 AM
Umm, where are the supporting facts or are you saying Donte Whitner sucked last year?

Jason Allen on 6 games less starting than Whitner had 2 more interceptions, 2 more pass defended, 55 solo tackles [62 total] on 9 games starting compared to Whitner 68 solo tackles [89 total], 1 pass defended and 1 interception in 15 games starting.

That of course, considering where Donte Whitner [8th overall] was drafted compared to Jason Allen [16th overall]. :rolleyes2:

Honestly, I don't know much about Allen's play since he's been in the league but I do believe he was part of a secondary that got beat for 4 tds against us. He did play that game right?

And stats is a bad way to judge a db. Whitner plays in the box alot. And our secondary had an undrafted free agent starting at free safety and cornerback. Whitner helped out both of those guys immensely. Plus the reason you don't get picks sometimes is because teams don't throw at you.

And if you really wanna do stats, Whitner has almost identical stats as Bob Sanders through their first 2 seasons.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-13-2008, 01:10 AM
Really, what moves would they be, cause I'm not impressed given the amount of money the Bills are sitting on.

Right because we all know spending the most money means how well you will do. :rolleyes:

Honestly, it's impossible to argue with you. You say the same thing about how terrible the Bills are every season and they end up having a better season than Miami. I get that you're a homer but you just can't argue without your biases taking over.

There's no one in the NFL who would compare Edwards to Beck. Edwards was miles ahead of Beck. Edwards beat a playoff team on the road. Edwards threw 4 tds in a game. Edwards had the Bills leading the Super Bowl champs in the 4ht quarter. Edwards has a winning record as a starter. So don't tell me they are comparable.

That doesn't mean Beck can't be a good QB. But he didn't have close to the impact Edwards has. Man up and take a bet for the upcoming season. Put up or shut. You game? :up:

Brassmonki14120
03-13-2008, 01:20 AM
Honestly, I don't know much about Allen's play since he's been in the league but I do believe he was part of a secondary that got beat for 4 tds against us. He did play that game right?

Isn't that the same game when Beck completed 1 pass for 6 yards, was sacked 3 times and then got pulled after he fumbled and the Bills picked it up and ran it into the endzone for a Touchdown?

Aqua4Ever04
03-13-2008, 03:32 AM
Isn't that the same game when Beck completed 1 pass for 6 yards, was sacked 3 times and then got pulled after he fumbled and the Bills picked it up and ran it into the endzone for a Touchdown?

Are you trying to lead into something with this or are you just pointing out a bad game? My gut tells me it's the former.

carolinabillsfa
03-13-2008, 09:29 AM
Amazing how Bill fans try so hard to lift their players above everyone else's. Even though both QB's basically put up the same kinda numbers, Trent is of course better, cause Bill fans say so. Gotta love it. I guess you'll be a playoff team now, now that you have yet another superstar QB in the making, right?


FTP I believe you missed the whole 7 fumbles stat for Beck in 5 games not very good. Trent Edwards fumbled 4 times in 10 games losing none of them. You can't just put up passing yards and rating and expect that to the only basis of your argument, turnovers are arguably the most important part of any game. Beck turned the ball over more than in less games, telling me that Trent is a better quarterback.

Vertical Limit
03-13-2008, 09:34 AM
Honestly, I don't know much about Allen's play since he's been in the league but I do believe he was part of a secondary that got beat for 4 tds against us. He did play that game right?

And stats is a bad way to judge a db. Whitner plays in the box alot. And our secondary had an undrafted free agent starting at free safety and cornerback. Whitner helped out both of those guys immensely. Plus the reason you don't get picks sometimes is because teams don't throw at you.

And if you really wanna do stats, Whitner has almost identical stats as Bob Sanders through their first 2 seasons.
Right, and Jason Allen plays in a much more difficult defense than the Cover 2 that the Bills use.

TotoreMexico
03-13-2008, 10:46 AM
Honestly, I don't know much about Allen's play since he's been in the league but I do believe he was part of a secondary that got beat for 4 tds against us. He did play that game right?

And stats is a bad way to judge a db. Whitner plays in the box alot. And our secondary had an undrafted free agent starting at free safety and cornerback. Whitner helped out both of those guys immensely. Plus the reason you don't get picks sometimes is because teams don't throw at you.

And if you really wanna do stats, Whitner has almost identical stats as Bob Sanders through their first 2 seasons.

So why do they have them?

And please, it's not like whitner is Asomugha or something, you're reaching right there

BTW where's the other bills fan who claimed that whitner "statistically outperforms" Huff?:rolleyes2:

feelthepain
03-13-2008, 11:12 AM
The only impressive thing the phins have done this offseason is convincing BP to join the organization.

Nothing else that the team has done has been spectacular. Yes people are saying that the phins have improved but they are the worst team in the entire NFL. They won a single game, just 1 game. 2 wins this season is doubling Miami's win total from last seaon, 2 wins would be an improvement. The phins could sign Ryan Leaf and it would be an improvement.


In keeping with the topic:
The Bills went 7-9 last season, not even .500. The Bills did add some need TALENT to the roster and with those additions and being a realist I can see the Bills topping out at 9-7.

Right and spending the money and brining in players doesn't help your team either. I love how whatever the Bills do is the best thing they could do...according to you obviously. I don't think the Bills moves are that impressive because they could have done better but as usual don't. Then Bill fans as usual, spew nonsense before one game has been played.

It was the same last year. Bill fans were telling everyone right after their FA signings that they would now compete for the division and were a playoff team, sure.

Your biggest addition so far this year has done basically nothing the last two years, but of course since he's a Bill suddenly becomes this tremendous addition and the Bills are once again a playoff team who'll battle the Pats for the division. Where is all this blind faith coming from? You do realize your top FA addition has been injured and suspended for drug use the last two years, right?

As for the Dolphins, they are getting rid of lazy people who didn't have the desire to win. Nothing spectacular, but solid addition and BTW, Miami fans aren't telling everyone what a huge upgrade our FA's have made the Dolphins and how we will suddenly be a division contender, like Bill fans.

Miami in 2006 was a top 3 defense, last year the injuries took their toll. I dare you to find a team in the league that had more injuries to their starting unit then Miami who also had the schedule that we had. The difference in Buffalo in 07 and Miami, our biggest contributor to the loses was key injuries.

Brassmonki14120
03-13-2008, 01:41 PM
Right and spending the money and brining in players doesn't help your team either. I love how whatever the Bills do is the best thing they could do...according to you obviously. I don't think the Bills moves are that impressive because they could have done better but as usual don't. Then Bill fans as usual, spew nonsense before one game has been played.

It was the same last year. Bill fans were telling everyone right after their FA signings that they would now compete for the division and were a playoff team, sure.

Your biggest addition so far this year has done basically nothing the last two years, but of course since he's a Bill suddenly becomes this tremendous addition and the Bills are once again a playoff team who'll battle the Pats for the division. Where is all this blind faith coming from? You do realize your top FA addition has been injured and suspended for drug use the last two years, right?

As for the Dolphins, they are getting rid of lazy people who didn't have the desire to win. Nothing spectacular, but solid addition and BTW, Miami fans aren't telling everyone what a huge upgrade our FA's have made the Dolphins and how we will suddenly be a division contender, like Bill fans.

Miami in 2006 was a top 3 defense, last year the injuries took their toll. I dare you to find a team in the league that had more injuries to their starting unit then Miami who also had the schedule that we had. The difference in Buffalo in 07 and Miami, our biggest contributor to the loses was key injuries.

Miami fans can't tell anyone about huge upgrades in FA because the biggest upgrade in players you grabbed in FA are a fat drunken frat boy (only played in 9 games last year, an FTP reason why you must suck) who tends to run on at the mouth when he's drinking crown and a QB who would be a back up anywhere other than Miami.

Moving on.
Dare taken, Miami didn't have the most.

Start here:
http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1
Work your way through each week.

Moving on... again.
You are wrong. The biggest contributors to Miami's losses were a crappy O-line, a crappy coach, and a rookie QB who played like crap.

Other contributions include WH's going crazy with the checkbook and throwing money away on an AVERAGE LB in Porter instead of grabbing an O-Lineman*, trading Welker, Ted Ginn jr as your 1st overall pick/passing on Quinn...

*2007 FA O-Linemen

Max Starks RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
Leonard Davis UFA Arizona Cardinals
Eric Steinbach UFA Cincinnati Bengals
Luke Petitgout, UFA, New York Giants
Jeremy Newberry, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Jordan Black, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Carswell, UFA, Denver Broncos
Kris Dielman, UFA, San Diego
Derrick Dockery, UFA, Washington Redskins
Nat Dorsey, RFA, Cleveland Browns
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Norm Katnik, RFA, New York Jets
Ryan Lilja, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Sean Locklear, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Damion McIntosh, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Roman Oben, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Tony Pashos, UFA, Baltimore Ravens
Luke Petitgout, UFA, New York Giants
Brian Rimpf, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Todd Steussie, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle Seahawks

feelthepain
03-13-2008, 02:52 PM
Miami fans can't tell anyone about huge upgrades in FA because the biggest upgrade in players you grabbed in FA are a fat drunken frat boy (only played in 9 games last year, an FTP reason why you must suck) who tends to run on at the mouth when he's drinking crown and a QB who would be a back up anywhere other than Miami.


Don't get all bent out of shape, it's not me that signed a DT that hasn't done much of anything the last two years. It was your teams FO! Is it my fault he was injured much of 06 and suspended much of 07? No, is either of those facts wrong? No, was he your teams top FA addition so far? According to Bill fans YES!!! So don't go gettin' all whiny because I point out the facts and you don't like it. Just deal with it.

Miami has gone out and released players that were no longer in their future plans or didn't contribute in a positive way to the teams 07 season. They then add players that are versatile and bring a strong work ethic and winning attitude. Are any of their 11 signings superstars? No, but Miami is making changes because the changes are needed. The Bills release one or two players and add one or two or three players. Is that what the Bills need to get to the next level? No, they need to rebuild as well, just because the Bills are young doesn't make them good. They haven't been a good team in nearly a decade. Does the fact that Miami had a bad year in 07 change the fact that the Bills still suck?? No! So try focusing on what the Bills need and stop looking at what Miami is doing.



Moving on.
Dare taken, Miami didn't have the most.

Start here:
http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1
Work your way through each week.Wow outstandingly worthless, you're on the ball.


Moving on... again.
You are wrong. The biggest contributors to Miami's losses were a crappy O-line, a crappy coach, and a rookie QB who played like crap.And yet the Dolphins with all their injuries finished higher in nearly every statistical category then your beloved Bills. But the Bills are better! Sure!!


Other contributions include WH's going crazy with the checkbook and throwing money away on an AVERAGE LB in Porter instead of grabbing an O-Lineman*, trading Welker, Ted Ginn jr as your 1st overall pick/passing on Quinn...
Oh I see you'd rather have an owner who doesn't even try to make the team better because he loves his money more then winning. I love how you point to WH as if he's the reason Miami has had little success. May I remind you he has WS tittle with the Marlins and his Panthers were in the Stanley cup Finals in recent years?? I think he's had more then his share of success and his philosophy works just fine. On the other hand what's RW got? Oh I know, fans who still have nothing to talk about!



*2007 FA O-Linemen

Max Starks RFA Pittsburgh Steelers
Leonard Davis UFA Arizona Cardinals
Eric Steinbach UFA Cincinnati Bengals
Luke Petitgout, UFA, New York Giants
Jeremy Newberry, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Jordan Black, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Carswell, UFA, Denver Broncos
Kris Dielman, UFA, San Diego
Derrick Dockery, UFA, Washington Redskins
Nat Dorsey, RFA, Cleveland Browns
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Norm Katnik, RFA, New York Jets
Ryan Lilja, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Sean Locklear, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Damion McIntosh, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Roman Oben, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Tony Pashos, UFA, Baltimore Ravens
Luke Petitgout, UFA, New York Giants
Brian Rimpf, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Todd Steussie, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Floyd Womack, UFA, Seattle SeahawksAnd again Miami still had a better rushing attack and passing game then the Bills! In 06 and 07. Your point is pointless.

BuffaloSoldier2
03-13-2008, 08:34 PM
Right and spending the money and brining in players doesn't help your team either. I love how whatever the Bills do is the best thing they could do...according to you obviously. I don't think the Bills moves are that impressive because they could have done better but as usual don't. Then Bill fans as usual, spew nonsense before one game has been played.

It was the same last year. Bill fans were telling everyone right after their FA signings that they would now compete for the division and were a playoff team, sure.


Dude, you're just making up stuff. I, like most Bills fans, never said the Bills would make the playoffs. So stop making up stuff. I thought they would be improved. And if you consider they were 7-6 and with a big game at Cleveland, I guess the playoff predictions weren't really that far off.


Your biggest addition so far this year has done basically nothing the last two years, but of course since he's a Bill suddenly becomes this tremendous addition and the Bills are once again a playoff team who'll battle the Pats for the division. Where is all this blind faith coming from? You do realize your top FA addition has been injured and suspended for drug use the last two years, right?

Funny that you'll tout Randy Starks and an injuried Stroud had a better season than him. I'm sure no Fins fan would be excited to get a 3 time pro bowl defensive tackle. :rolleyes: And considering the Bills gave up jsut a 3rd and 5th, when they have an additional pick in each round, that's not that big of a price to pay. It's a risk but it's well worth it. But I'm sure you'd much rather have Starks. :up:



As for the Dolphins, they are getting rid of lazy people who didn't have the desire to win. Nothing spectacular, but solid addition and BTW, Miami fans aren't telling everyone what a huge upgrade our FA's have made the Dolphins and how we will suddenly be a division contender, like Bill fans.


Miam ws 1-15 and the Bills were 7-9 with one of the youngest team in football. They had a look at the playoffs. I already have conceded the division and 2 losses to the Pats, but given that we play the Fins and Jets twice and the AFC/ NFC West, I definitely expect a playoff and/or winning season. There's no question about it. And Jauron knows that his job is on the line.



Miami in 2006 was a top 3 defense, last year the injuries took their toll. I dare you to find a team in the league that had more injuries to their starting unit then Miami who also had the schedule that we had. The difference in Buffalo in 07 and Miami, our biggest contributor to the loses was key injuries.


Right because the Bills didn't lose their starting MLB; their starting corner; their starting free safety; their starting WLB; and their top backup free safety (George Wilson who Beck hit for a touchdown); and their top 2 backup DEs. Yeah, you're right Miami was the only team with injuries. :rolleyes:

And you're nuts if you don't think that the Bills are miles ahead of the Fins. You haven't beat us in 3 years and lose a game 38-14 in which our rookie 3rd round QB threw 4tds and your rookie 2nd round QB (who you passed Quinn over for) got benched in the first half. Miles apart. :up:

Jets81
03-13-2008, 08:55 PM
Right and spending the money and brining in players doesn't help your team either. I love how whatever the Bills do is the best thing they could do...according to you obviously. I don't think the Bills moves are that impressive because they could have done better but as usual don't. Then Bill fans as usual, spew nonsense before one game has been played.

It was the same last year. Bill fans were telling everyone right after their FA signings that they would now compete for the division and were a playoff team, sure.

Your biggest addition so far this year has done basically nothing the last two years, but of course since he's a Bill suddenly becomes this tremendous addition and the Bills are once again a playoff team who'll battle the Pats for the division. Where is all this blind faith coming from? You do realize your top FA addition has been injured and suspended for drug use the last two years, right?

As for the Dolphins, they are getting rid of lazy people who didn't have the desire to win. Nothing spectacular, but solid addition and BTW, Miami fans aren't telling everyone what a huge upgrade our FA's have made the Dolphins and how we will suddenly be a division contender, like Bill fans.

Miami in 2006 was a top 3 defense, last year the injuries took their toll. I dare you to find a team in the league that had more injuries to their starting unit then Miami who also had the schedule that we had. The difference in Buffalo in 07 and Miami, our biggest contributor to the loses was key injuries.

This is true, most of the Fin fans on here have been low key when talking about there FA acquisitions so far this offseason. More then a few have even complemented the Jets on there moves so far.

Also true is how every season is going the be the Bills break out season. I remember these same Bills fans talking about how they were going to have one of the best offenses in the league this past season and how Lossman would ascend to an elite level. They know who they are so I won't name names.

In the interest of full disclosure, I myself thought the Jets would win 8-9 games last season and was obviously way off. It all just goes to show that fans can run there mouths all they want, and while it can make for fun discussion it doesn't amount to crap once the teams take the field.

feelthepain
03-13-2008, 10:43 PM
Dude, you're just making up stuff. I, like most Bills fans, never said the Bills would make the playoffs. So stop making up stuff. I thought they would be improved. And if you consider they were 7-6 and with a big game at Cleveland, I guess the playoff predictions weren't really that far off.

Making stuff up? You obviously visit Bills sites, you're gonna tell me as with every off season Bill fans aren't talking playoffs yet again? Please stop, I know better. All Bill fans ever do is tell everyone else how their team will contend in the up coming season.


Funny that you'll tout Randy Starks and an injuried Stroud had a better season than him. I'm sure no Fins fan would be excited to get a 3 time pro bowl defensive tackle. :rolleyes: And considering the Bills gave up jsut a 3rd and 5th, when they have an additional pick in each round, that's not that big of a price to pay. It's a risk but it's well worth it. But I'm sure you'd much rather have Starks. :up:I don't want Stroud, he's often injured and he's been suspended for steroid use. You act as if that is irrelevant. Well it's not, in fact it's quite serious. You also act as if Stroud made the pro bowl the last three years, he hasn't.
Why do Bill fans always think every player they sign is some huge achievement? He's ok, but it's been a while since he's been what you're hoping he will be. Your team didn't land the top DT in the NFL, just a player who's former team had seen enough and decided to move on.

And please show me where I said a word about Starks. I never said he was better or worse then Stroud. Satrks has the size BP looks for in a DL player and will probably be a third down option and add a nice rotation. Heck he may not even make the team. Talk about making stuff up, geesh.


Miam ws 1-15 and the Bills were 7-9 with one of the youngest team in football. They had a look at the playoffs. I already have conceded the division and 2 losses to the Pats, but given that we play the Fins and Jets twice and the AFC/ NFC West, I definitely expect a playoff and/or winning season. There's no question about it. And Jauron knows that his job is on the line.The Bills hadf a look at the playoffs?....AT 7-9??? PLEASE!!! Your team has what? 2 wins in the last two years aginst teams with a winning record? What good is making the playoffs if you can't beat teams with a winning record? As for what the Dolphins were in 07, this isn't 07 anymore. No one has even made it to the draft yet rosters aren't set yet so how do you know what will be? You don't.

You expect a playoff or winning season? Ummm I'm sure you expected that in 06 and 07 and you're still waiting. Jauron? Good luck, he's had what, one winning season as a HC? With the Bears? Bill fans....funny stuff.


Right because the Bills didn't lose their starting MLB; their starting corner; their starting free safety; their starting WLB; and their top backup free safety (George Wilson who Beck hit for a touchdown); and their top 2 backup DEs. Yeah, you're right Miami was the only team with injuries. :rolleyes:

And you're nuts if you don't think that the Bills are miles ahead of the Fins. You haven't beat us in 3 years and lose a game 38-14 in which our rookie 3rd round QB threw 4tds and your rookie 2nd round QB (who you passed Quinn over for) got benched in the first half. Miles apart. :up:I said Miami had the most "KEY INJURIES" combined with a tough schedule. And they did, the Bills lose what a Rookie LB? Big deal, Miami also had better statistics on offense and defense then the Bills and Miami did it with some really lackluster talent.

This leads me to your final comment. The Bills are miles ahead of the Dolphins? Then why didn't the Bills finish somewhere in the middle of the pack on offensive and defensive statistics? This is why I have such little respect for anything Bill fans say. You claim your team is miles ahead of the Dolphins, but everything the Bills did last year points to their being one of the worst teams in the league. How do you ignore those facts and then try to convince others your team is better then they are? What a frikin joke, those comments are, as are the Bills.


As if everything you write isn't full of bias and blind faith you also have a problem remembering what you write in the same post.

Example:

First you write,


"I, like most Bills fans, never said the Bills would make the playoffs."Then you write,


"I definitely expect a playoff and/or winning season. There's no question about it."Wow, great stuff:up:

feelthepain
03-13-2008, 11:01 PM
This is true, most of the Fin fans on here have been low key when talking about there FA acquisitions so far this offseason. More then a few have even complemented the Jets on there moves so far.

Also true is how every season is going the be the Bills break out season. I remember these same Bills fans talking about how they were going to have one of the best offenses in the league this past season and how Lossman would ascend to an elite level. They know who they are so I won't name names.

In the interest of full disclosure, I myself thought the Jets would win 8-9 games last season and was obviously way off. It all just goes to show that fans can run there mouths all they want, and while it can make for fun discussion it doesn't amount to crap once the teams take the field.

We shouldn't be excited, we have no idea where we stand right now. It's neither good nor bad. I believe we still have a lot of talent on this team, but who knows how long it could take to come together. It could happen next year it could happen in three years. We just have to wait and see.

late again
03-14-2008, 12:23 AM
Making stuff up? You obviously visit Bills sites, you're gonna tell me as with every off season Bill fans aren't talking playoffs yet again? Please stop, I know better. All Bill fans ever do is tell everyone else how their team will contend in the up coming season.

I don't want Stroud, he's often injured and he's been suspended for steroid use. You act as if that is irrelevant. Well it's not, in fact it's quite serious. You also act as if Stroud made the pro bowl the last three years, he hasn't.
Why do Bill fans always think every player they sign is some huge achievement? He's ok, but it's been a while since he's been what you're hoping he will be. Your team didn't land the top DT in the NFL, just a player who's former team had seen enough and decided to move on.

And please show me where I said a word about Starks. I never said he was better or worse then Stroud. Satrks has the size BP looks for in a DL player and will probably be a third down option and add a nice rotation. Heck he may not even make the team. Talk about making stuff up, geesh.

The Bills hadf a look at the playoffs?....AT 7-9??? PLEASE!!! Your team has what? 2 wins in the last two years aginst teams with a winning record? What good is making the playoffs if you can't beat teams with a winning record? As for what the Dolphins were in 07, this isn't 07 anymore. No one has even made it to the draft yet rosters aren't set yet so how do you know what will be? You don't.

You expect a playoff or winning season? Ummm I'm sure you expected that in 06 and 07 and you're still waiting. Jauron? Good luck, he's had what, one winning season as a HC? With the Bears? Bill fans....funny stuff.

I said Miami had the most "KEY INJURIES" combined with a tough schedule. And they did, the Bills lose what a Rookie LB? Big deal, Miami also had better statistics on offense and defense then the Bills and Miami did it with some really lackluster talent.

This leads me to your final comment. The Bills are miles ahead of the Dolphins? Then why didn't the Bills finish somewhere in the middle of the pack on offensive and defensive statistics? This is why I have such little respect for anything Bill fans say. You claim your team is miles ahead of the Dolphins, but everything the Bills did last year points to their being one of the worst teams in the league. How do you ignore those facts and then try to convince others your team is better then they are? What a frikin joke, those comments are, as are the Bills.


As if everything you write isn't full of bias and blind faith you also have a problem remembering what you write in the same post.

Example:

First you write,

Then you write,

Wow, great stuff:up:

Excellent summary FTP.

Jets81
03-14-2008, 08:27 AM
We shouldn't be excited, we have no idea where we stand right now. It's neither good nor bad. I believe we still have a lot of talent on this team, but who knows how long it could take to come together. It could happen next year it could happen in three years. We just have to wait and see.

Ahh, see I kinda disagree there. I think all 3 teams have reason to be excited.

The Fins were in a lot of games last season, and with a competent coach some of those tight losses could turn into wins next season. The Fins are starting a new era with Parcels, you'll have a completely different team over the next few seasons. If the Parcels effect works for the Fins they'll be competing for postseason play in a couple years.

The Bills were the second best team in the division and they've made a few upgrades. I can understand why they'd be confident especially given the injury woes they had last season and what they were able to accomplish. It just seems like they can never get over the hump, and I don't expect the Jets or Fins to be the pushovers they were last season. That said, there's still no reason for them to feel like next year won't be the year they can finally push there way into the playoffs.

As for the Jets, they were a playoff team (albeit a weak one) 2 seasons ago, and like the Fins they lost a lot of close games last season. The Jets went out and did almost exactly what any Jets fan would have wanted them too so far this offseason. They addressed needs with talent thats either top tier or has the potential to be. Considering that the Jets have what appears to be a weak schedule (on paper at least) Jets fans have good reason to believe that they'll return to the postseason again next year.

You have to get excited about next season, the alternative sucks all the fun out of being a fan. As much as I look forward too the East returning to respectability, a couple teams are always going to be left out in the cold because this division is going to be very competitive in the near future. That beats the alternative of having a bunch of losers though, and the better we all get the better the chances that the Patriots reign at the top of the division comes to an end. :up:

Jets81
03-14-2008, 09:00 AM
Miam ws 1-15 and the Bills were 7-9 with one of the youngest team in football. They had a look at the playoffs. I already have conceded the division and 2 losses to the Pats, but given that we play the Fins and Jets twice and the AFC/ NFC West, I definitely expect a playoff and/or winning season. There's no question about it. And Jauron knows that his job is on the line.

And there is the flaw in your thinking. You're penciling in wins against the Jets and Fins. Both teams have already improved there rosters (on paper at least) and the draft is still to come. 3 of those 4 wins for the Bills were very close games, and those 4 wins contributed over 50% of your total.

The Bills won 7 games last season, all but one tightly contested, and all but one against what was the lower eschelon of the league. I don't fault your optimism, but counting on wins in the division like that sets you up for a big let down next season.

feelthepain
03-14-2008, 09:54 AM
Ahh, see I kinda disagree there. I think all 3 teams have reason to be excited.

The Fins were in a lot of games last season, and with a competent coach some of those tight losses could turn into wins next season. The Fins are starting a new era with Parcels, you'll have a completely different team over the next few seasons. If the Parcels effect works for the Fins they'll be competing for postseason play in a couple years.

The Bills were the second best team in the division and they've made a few upgrades. I can understand why they'd be confident especially given the injury woes they had last season and what they were able to accomplish. It just seems like they can never get over the hump, and I don't expect the Jets or Fins to be the pushovers they were last season. That said, there's still no reason for them to feel like next year won't be the year they can finally push there way into the playoffs.

As for the Jets, they were a playoff team (albeit a weak one) 2 seasons ago, and like the Fins they lost a lot of close games last season. The Jets went out and did almost exactly what any Jets fan would have wanted them too so far this offseason. They addressed needs with talent thats either top tier or has the potential to be. Considering that the Jets have what appears to be a weak schedule (on paper at least) Jets fans have good reason to believe that they'll return to the postseason again next year.

You have to get excited about next season, the alternative sucks all the fun out of being a fan. As much as I look forward too the East returning to respectability, a couple teams are always going to be left out in the cold because this division is going to be very competitive in the near future. That beats the alternative of having a bunch of losers though, and the better we all get the better the chances that the Patriots reign at the top of the division comes to an end. :up:


I think Miami has more growing pains to go through, I think we could be last in the division next year. I'm Ok with that because we have so much youth and inexperience. Both with the players and coaches. I think the Jets are the only team that will give the Pats a challenge. I would really like to see Chad stay healthy for a season for the Jets because I think he has the talent to be a top QB.

Jets81
03-14-2008, 10:05 AM
I think Miami has more growing pains to go through, I think we could be last in the division next year. I'm Ok with that because we have so much youth and inexperience. Both with the players and coaches. I think the Jets are the only team that will give the Pats a challenge. I would really like to see Chad stay healthy for a season for the Jets because I think he has the talent to be a top QB.

Chads a smart guy that used to make good decisions. There's a direct correlation between his downward spiral and the state of the Jets OL in my opinion. He's not getting any younger though and while he can throw a ball 50 yards now and then, his arm strength makes him easier for opposing defenses to scheme for. I woulden't be shocked to see him trot out onto the field as the opening day starter next season, but I also wouldn't be shocked if he's not even on the opening day roster.

Justasportsfan
03-14-2008, 11:09 AM
Umm, where are the supporting facts or are you saying Donte Whitner sucked last year?

Jason Allen on 6 games less starting than Whitner had 2 more interceptions, 2 more pass defended, 55 solo tackles [62 total] on 9 games starting compared to Whitner 68 solo tackles [89 total], 1 pass defended and 1 interception in 15 games starting.

That of course, considering where Donte Whitner [8th overall] was drafted compared to Jason Allen [16th overall]. :rolleyes2:

are you saying stats paint an entire picture. Your O was ranked higher than ours and so did your D . Yet we all know your team was scored upon easily. Of course your db's stats are gonna look padded.

Lets not forget that inspite of your better statistical ranking , you were 1-15 and we were 7-9.

Allen is not in Whitners and Huffs class.

Justasportsfan
03-14-2008, 11:16 AM
Translation: I'm wise enough to know better then to bet on things I don't control. You on the other hand, not so much.

I don't have control over what happens either but at least I've always been willing to put my money where my mouth is. You always run away when I challenge your opinions. Simply put, you have no confidence in your own statements and I've always been right. You were wrong 100% of the time.

Feleey sucked, Saban sucked , and we were better than you last year. Just a few things that you were wrong. The only wise thing you did was not take the bets because you WERE WRONG!

Now I don't have control over what happens this upcoming season. You keep telling us that your team is ranked higher offensively ,defensively etc,etc.

Simply put, you think your team is gonna better than the bills. Back it up.

Justasportsfan
03-14-2008, 11:21 AM
Yeah see when trying to talk football with Justabillfan, understand his team is always better....no matter what.

:lol:

I'm not the one who thinks that offensive/defensive rankings makes the fins better inspite of what the standings say. 7-9 vs. 1-15. You do.

Brassmonki14120
03-14-2008, 01:15 PM
I love how whatever the Bills do is the best thing they could do...according to you obviously.


You said this, I didn't. Why are you telling me what I think? You keep saying "Bills fans think this, Bills fans think that..."? You can keep saying it over and over and it still wont make it true.


It was the same last year. Bill fans were telling everyone right after their FA signings that they would now compete for the division and were a playoff team, sure.


Again, why are you telling me what I said? I never said that in fact last year I said something like The Pats would go 13-3, Jets 10-6, Bills 8-8, Phins 3-13 and I think I said I may have given the phins a game or two.

I have always been realistic when it comes to talking football in here, always. So when you go telling me what I think or what I said please quote me, don't just make stuff up.

Here's my predictions for last season. www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190638&page=2 (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190638&page=2)



Pats 13-3 (tough game against SD even at home and I dont want to believe they will sweep more than 1 AFC East team this year)

Jets 11-5 (wins @ Home over Miami, Cleveland, Pitt, KC, Buf, Wash, New England. Road wins Miami, Tenn, Dallas, NY Giants)

Bills 8-8 (Wins @ Home over Miami, NY Jets, New England, Balt. Road wins over Miami, Cleveland, Pitt, Philly)

Phins 3-13 (Losses @ home to Buf, NE, NYJ, Balt, Cin, Dal, NYG Losses on the road to Buffalo, NE, NYJ, Pitt, Philly, Wash. Miami's only wins come against Oakland, Cleveland, Houston.


Here are Phin fans predictions about their team-

Dolphins...9-7.....wildcard defense&RBs are tough

Dolphins: 7-9

Dolphins 10-6

Dolphins 9-7 or 10-6, depending on our qb

Dolphins 11-5 (Wild Card Winner)

Dolphins: 10-6 (I expect to split with the pats, and sweep Jets & Bills)

dolphins 4-12

Dolphins=7-9

Aqua4Ever04's 1st preidiction-Dolphins 11-5, 2nd prediction Dolphins 9-7

Fins 7-9

Dolphins 10-6(split with the pats)wildcard


Same thread Bills fans predictions-


Bills 8-8

Crisis only gave standings
Pats
Jets
Bills
Phins


I went as far as page 8 and that's all the Bills fans pridictions I saw.

So if anyone has been unrealistic about their team it's been the Phin fans.

Every year it's most, not all, phin fans shouting "Saban will win the SB for Miami" or "Pep the Probowler will take us deep into the playoffs", or "The R&R Express will dominate the league".

feelthepain
03-14-2008, 02:19 PM
You said this, I didn't. Why are you telling me what I think? You keep saying "Bills fans think this, Bills fans think that..."? You can keep saying it over and over and it still wont make it true.

Ummm, Bill fans do think there team is better then it is and no matter how much you deny it, it's still true. Maybe you should have a talk with Bill fans and tell them to stop telling everyone how good their team is.


Again, why are you telling me what I said? I never said that in fact last year I said something like The Pats would go 13-3, Jets 10-6, Bills 8-8, Phins 3-13 and I think I said I may have given the phins a game or two.

I have always been realistic when it comes to talking football in here, always. So when you go telling me what I think or what I said please quote me, don't just make stuff up.

I said Bill fans...not you! And they were!


Here are Phin fans predictions about their team-
Quote:
Dolphins...9-7.....wildcard defense&RBs are tough

Dolphins: 7-9

Dolphins 10-6

Dolphins 9-7 or 10-6, depending on our qb

Dolphins 11-5 (Wild Card Winner)

Dolphins: 10-6 (I expect to split with the pats, and sweep Jets & Bills)

dolphins 4-12

Dolphins=7-9

Aqua4Ever04's 1st preidiction-Dolphins 11-5, 2nd prediction Dolphins 9-7

Fins 7-9

Dolphins 10-6(split with the pats)wildcard
Same thread Bills fans predictions-

Quote:
Bills 8-8

Crisis only gave standings
Pats
Jets
Bills
Phins

You know what I find interesting and quite humorous about that quote, is how selective it is. You went looking for a specific thing and then post it as if of all 10,000 posts on this subject last year based on this one. I think I could do a little research and find a handful of Dolphin posters who predicted an below avg. season for the fins and a handful of Bill fans that posted a playoff run and a division tittle for their team. So spear me your selective facts.


Every year it's most, not all, phin fans shouting "Saban will win the SB for Miami" or "Pep the Probowler will take us deep into the playoffs", or "The R&R Express will dominate the league".

So now you tell me what I said and what I think. I see, as with your selective posts you put yourself on this untouchable pedestal giving out orders and ruling the site. Is there any other rules you'd like to invent for everyone but Bill fans??

Brassmonki14120
03-15-2008, 12:09 AM
Ummm,


You really had to type that out?


Bill fans do think there team is better then it is and no matter how much you deny it, it's still true.

Better than the Phins? Without a doubt.

Upgraded and solidified some positions with depth? Absolutely.

It would be pretty hard to argue either.


I said Bill fans...not you!

I am a Bills fan, born in Buffalo, lived in Buffalo, Kenmore, and NT.


You know what I find interesting and quite humorous about that quote, is how selective it is. You went looking for a specific thing and then post it as if of all 10,000 posts on this subject last year based on this one.

It was selective, I selected a post about the subject. Click the link, the title of the post was "Guess the AFCE standings".


as with your selective posts you put yourself on this untouchable pedestal giving out orders and ruling the site.

If the pedestal is reality then no, you cannot touch me.

I'm flattered that you see me as an authority figure ruling this site and giving out orders, now do my dishes.

Aqua4Ever04
03-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I really don't think I ever said 11-5 and meant it. 9-7 was my pick last year.

Justasportsfan
03-17-2008, 11:02 AM
I think Miami has more growing pains to go through, I think we could be last in the division next year. I'm Ok with that because we have so much youth and inexperience. Both with the players and coaches.

:up: