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ATVZ400
03-10-2008, 02:22 PM
Jets owner trying to buy Super Bowl?

(http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/03/09/2008-03-09_jets_spending_spree_puts_pressure_on_eri.html)Is Woody Johnson feeling the pressure of the Giants' championship and as a result opening the checkbook and letting GM Mike Tannenbaum and coach Eric Mangini spend like teenagers who just got their parents' credit card? "This is really more about the Jets and our plan," Tannenbaum told the Daily News. "We still philosophically believe in building through the draft and re-signing our own players. This was a situation where we felt we had areas we wanted to improve based on how the team played last year, and we had opportunities to satisfy those needs. I respect and admire what the Giants did and I really like those people over there and I am really happy for them. We're trying to build the best team we can over here." The Jets went on what is probably the wildest four-day spending binge in history: Between their signings of Alan Faneca, Calvin Pace and Damien Woody and their trade for Kris Jenkins, they took on $137 million worth of contracts, including $63 million guaranteed. Not one of the players is a game-changer, although they represent upgrades over what the Jets had last year. -- NY Daily News

Vertical Limit
03-11-2008, 01:29 PM
Atleast it looks like an upgrade. There are teams out there like the Cardinals, that have much more money invested according to the cap, and still would be lucky to reach .500.

FINSFAN2781
03-11-2008, 02:06 PM
They are, but too bad they aint going to do ****. Overpaying for old, often-injured and some no name guys isnt going to get you a Super Bowl.

SpaceMountain16
03-11-2008, 02:47 PM
They're trying to improve an awful team, and like most other teams are obviously aiming at a world championship. I'm sure the pressure to compete with the Giants is there, but i wouldn't say the Jets are "buying" a super bowl. Certainly if they think the moves they've made thus far this off-season will get them anywhere near a super bowl, they're mistaken. Not with the Patriots in the division and the rest of the AFC being very strong.

perfect1
03-11-2008, 02:49 PM
It wont work, Faneca is over the hill and they spent alot of money on alot of nothin

Jets81
03-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Look, if the Jets went out and blew there wad on the biggest names with no rhyme or reason then yea, I'd agree that they were trying to buy a SB...that or they became the Redskins overnight.

Fact is, every spot they've addressed was a big need. The contracts are nowhere near as bad as some people like to think, and, whether you call it desperation, trying to buy a SB, whatever, it shows they're trying to improve the team. I'll take that any day of the week over letting the best available talent slip away to save a few bucks.

nyjunc
03-11-2008, 04:15 PM
They are, but too bad they aint going to do ****. Overpaying for old, often-injured and some no name guys isnt going to get you a Super Bowl.

Outside of woody who is "often injured"? Faneca has missed 1 game this decade, Pace had a freak injury in '06 but has played in every game in his 4 other years in the league, Jenkins has played in 31 of 32 games the past 2 tears.

I guess you meant Justin Smiley and Jason ferguson when you were talking about oft-injured players as Smiley played 8 games last year and Fersuson in 3 seasons after collecting a big pay day has started in just 22 of 48 games and played in just 1 game overall last year.

SpurzN703
03-11-2008, 04:56 PM
They aren't doing it the right way, we are. Rebuild through younger/cheaper guys.

See the Redskins. Money doesn't buy you anything but salary cap hell

nyjunc
03-11-2008, 05:14 PM
They aren't doing it the right way, we are. Rebuild through younger/cheaper guys.

See the Redskins. Money doesn't buy you anything but salary cap hell

We aren't building through FA, we are plugging a few holes. We have built through the draft, our LT and C are drafted players, our WRs were drafted, our TE, our big play threat at RB, our pass rushing DE, half our Lbs including our best LB, our shutdown corner and our great Safety. We have added pieces around them, if we were overspending every year i'd agree we were doing it the skins way but this is not a normal thing we are doing, we NEVER spend big $ on FAs but some quality guys in areas of need were avaialble and we spent.

Remember the only guy that was really overtpaid was Pace and you guys were wiloling to go to $20 mil guaranteed.

Coral Reefer
03-11-2008, 05:27 PM
It wont work, Faneca is over the hill and they spent alot of money on alot of nothin

Faneca isn't over the hill IMO.

The guy is still a top mauler.
Having said that, I don't see this team as being ready to make a run and Faneca probably dosen't have a number of years left so his impact may not be maximized as it may have been if he went to another team.

Before Jet fans jump all over me, Yes, I think it would have even been an even worse decision for him to come to Miami.

Vertical Limit
03-11-2008, 05:37 PM
We aren't building through FA, we are plugging a few holes. We have built through the draft, our LT and C are drafted players, our WRs were drafted, our TE, our big play threat at RB, our pass rushing DE, half our Lbs including our best LB, our shutdown corner and our great Safety. We have added pieces around them, if we were overspending every year i'd agree we were doing it the skins way but this is not a normal thing we are doing, we NEVER spend big $ on FAs but some quality guys in areas of need were avaialble and we spent.

Remember the only guy that was really overtpaid was Pace and you guys were wiloling to go to $20 mil guaranteed.
Our front office was, I thought 15 mill guaranteed was already overpaying the guy.

ATVZ400
03-11-2008, 05:41 PM
The contracts are nowhere near as bad as some people like to think, and, whether you call it desperation, trying to buy a SB, whatever, as perJets81 (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/member.php?u=3201)

the NY Daily News is say that not me... (http://www.dolphinsnation.com/forums/member.php?u=3201)

cnc66
03-11-2008, 05:51 PM
Aren't a lot of owners trying to buy a Superbowl, ours included?

I think they did good, they will defenitely be able to do some mauling along the lines, and that will be a good thing against their real rivals, the pats.

late again
03-11-2008, 08:29 PM
Aren't a lot of owners trying to buy a Superbowl, ours included?

I think they did good, they will defenitely be able to do some mauling along the lines, and that will be a good thing against their real rivals, the pats.

Yeah, I know. The idea here is to win. Ya gotta have the players to do that. And oddly enough those players expect to get paid. Even more strange is that the better players want more than the mediocre players....go figure..
Not much different from pointing at the guy getting a car loan and saying he's trying to buy a car.

Jetsfan0099
03-13-2008, 05:23 PM
We aren't building through FA, we have many many holes. So the Jets decided that they can not fill every hole in the draft. So they decided that they will go out and spend for once, remember the Jets are known for being Cheap. When do we ever have a spending spree in FA?? Tannenbaum said when he became the GM, that he wants to build the team through the draft. He also said that he wants to use FA to fill as many holes as possible so we can take the Best available player in the draft. So we are not locked to have to take anyone for a need. Since Tannenbaum and Mangini took over, they spent 2 seasons signing cheap no name guys and they ended up being horrible and getting released. Our drafts have been gold under Tannenbaum and Mangini, but the FA period has stunk. But they saved up money for this. They believe signing a vet like Faneca can help Mangold and Ferguson develop more, and Woody they believe can be a good RT, they watched him play RT last year and were impressed. There are no NT in the draft, well any dominant ones, so making a move for Jenkins was smart. They also think Calvin Pace is a complete LB, that he is very talented and athletic, can drop into coverage and rush the passer. Remember Bill Parcells wanted him too, but Pace happened to like the direction that the Jets were going more, and couldn't refuse the deal.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-13-2008, 05:32 PM
We aren't building through FA, we have many many holes. So the Jets decided that they can not fill every hole in the draft. So they decided that they will go out and spend for once, remember the Jets are known for being Cheap. When do we ever have a spending spree in FA?? Tannenbaum said when he became the GM, that he wants to build the team through the draft. He also said that he wants to use FA to fill as many holes as possible so we can take the Best available player in the draft. So we are not locked to have to take anyone for a need. Since Tannenbaum and Mangini took over, they spent 2 seasons signing cheap no name guys and they ended up being horrible and getting released. Our drafts have been gold under Tannenbaum and Mangini, but the FA period has stunk. But they saved up money for this. They believe signing a vet like Faneca can help Mangold and Ferguson develop more, and Woody they believe can be a good RT, they watched him play RT last year and were impressed. There are no NT in the draft, well any dominant ones, so making a move for Jenkins was smart. They also think Calvin Pace is a complete LB, that he is very talented and athletic, can drop into coverage and rush the passer. Remember Bill Parcells wanted him too, but Pace happened to like the direction that the Jets were going more, and couldn't refuse the deal.

Better roll down the window, the homerism is gettin pretty deep in here.

Let's read between the lines bud, your teams Coach/GM are on the hot seat. They **** the bed last year after making the playoffs the previous year and know the fans will call for their head if it happens again.

Jetsfan0099
03-13-2008, 05:39 PM
Better roll down the window, the homerism is gettin pretty deep in here.

Let's read between the lines bud, your teams Coach/GM are on the hot seat. They **** the bed last year after making the playoffs the previous year and know the fans will call for their head if it happens again.
The reason they were bad last year was because of losing Kendall at LG, having practice squad type talent out there, having some injuries, not making the plays when it counts, not having the right personel for the defense. No homerism here, just stating the facts, lack of talent last year, no offensive weapons in the passing game besides Cotchery and Coles, and Coles was injured last year, our OL was horrible too. And that resulted in bad QB play. Mangini is the best thing to happen to the Jets in a long time though. He should not get fired.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-13-2008, 07:22 PM
The reason they were bad last year was because of losing Kendall at LG, having practice squad type talent out there, having some injuries, not making the plays when it counts, not having the right personel for the defense. No homerism here, just stating the facts, lack of talent last year, no offensive weapons in the passing game besides Cotchery and Coles, and Coles was injured last year, our OL was horrible too. And that resulted in bad QB play. Mangini is the best thing to happen to the Jets in a long time though. He should not get fired.

A few of those reasons you listed sounded like coaching problems did they not? Every team has injuries, hell look at the Phins. There's no reason for Mangini and Co. to stock pile FA like they did if they werent a little concerned about their jobs IMO.

You said yourself the GM wants to build a team through the draft, so why spend so much on a few veteran guys and one horribly overpriced, unproven one?

TheMageGandalf
03-13-2008, 07:56 PM
Remember Bill Parcells wanted him too, but Pace happened to like the direction that the Jets were going more, and couldn't refuse the deal.


I can't agree.

It was ALL about the cash.

This was his chance to get the BEST deal he'll problably ever get and he went to the highest bidder plain and simple.

I am sorry to say that we aren't close and the Jets (although slightly ahead) aren't close either. If anything the Fins have more going for them due to the fact that Parcells has a great track record.

It was about cash. For example, if today I was offered 10k more a year to go work for another co. I'd be in my boss' office in 2 sec. saying "see ya!"

You can easily imagine the samething going on especially when we are talking some BIG TIME guaranteed money not just working man's chump change.

Jets81
03-13-2008, 07:59 PM
A few of those reasons you listed sounded like coaching problems did they not? Every team has injuries, hell look at the Phins. There's no reason for Mangini and Co. to stock pile FA like they did if they werent a little concerned about their jobs IMO.

You said yourself the GM wants to build a team through the draft, so why spend so much on a few veteran guys and one horribly overpriced, unproven one?

Because you can't fill every hole on a team through the draft. You say Pace is overpriced, but he hasn't even played a down as a Jet yet, so I'm not sure what information you're privy to that we're not. Whether or not his contract was overpriced can start to be determined after he's played a full season in green.

They stock piled FA's to fill obvious holes. We need guys on the OL, we went out and got 2 of the best available. We needed a DT, we went out and got one of the best available. We needed a pass rusher, we went out and got one of the best available. And again, as has already been pointed out, the contracts are nowhere near as bad as some people are making them out to be, especially if these guys play at a high level next season.

Also, the Jets are building through the draft. The best players on the team are all draft picks. Rhodes, Harris, Revis, Washington, Ferguson, Mangold, Cotchery, etc. The core of the team is being built through the draft and were doing what every team does in the offseason, tries to fill holes with the best available players...tries to improve their team.

Jets81
03-13-2008, 08:13 PM
I can't agree.

It was ALL about the cash.

This was his chance to get the BEST deal he'll problably ever get and he went to the highest bidder plain and simple.

I am sorry to say that we aren't close and the Jets (although slightly ahead) aren't close either. If anything the Fins have more going for them due to the fact that Parcells has a great track record.

It was about cash. For example, if today I was offered 10k more a year to go work for another co. I'd be in my boss' office in 2 sec. saying "see ya!"

You can easily imagine the samething going on especially when we are talking some BIG TIME guaranteed money not just working man's chump change.

Parcels hasn't brought a Super Bowl to any of the last 3 teams he coached for. While he brought them all back to respectability, he didn't finish the job...and that was while he was actually coaching. This is uncommon ground for him. He's in the background now, and there's no guarantee that he'll have the same kind of success that he's had in the past in this new role.

As for Pace, the Phins wanted him but the Jets wanted him more. It's that simple.

Jetsfan0099
03-13-2008, 08:59 PM
A few of those reasons you listed sounded like coaching problems did they not? Every team has injuries, hell look at the Phins. There's no reason for Mangini and Co. to stock pile FA like they did if they werent a little concerned about their jobs IMO.

You said yourself the GM wants to build a team through the draft, so why spend so much on a few veteran guys and one horribly overpriced, unproven one?
No Tannenbaum just learned from his mistake, he misjudged the talent level of the team last year, he admitted to that. So he brought some real talent.

nyjunc
03-14-2008, 06:45 AM
Better roll down the window, the homerism is gettin pretty deep in here.

Let's read between the lines bud, your teams Coach/GM are on the hot seat. They **** the bed last year after making the playoffs the previous year and know the fans will call for their head if it happens again.

We NEVER sign high priced FAs! We have built through the draft and will continue to do so. As of today(before the draft) out of 24 starters(11 on O and D plus the K and P) 15 are original Jets. That's 68% of our starters. As of today Miami has 12 original dolphins, 50% of your starters so please stop this notion that we are building through FA. We have been building a solid core and are adding pieces around them.


I can't agree.

It was ALL about the cash.

This was his chance to get the BEST deal he'll problably ever get and he went to the highest bidder plain and simple.

I am sorry to say that we aren't close and the Jets (although slightly ahead) aren't close either. If anything the Fins have more going for them due to the fact that Parcells has a great track record.

It was about cash. For example, if today I was offered 10k more a year to go work for another co. I'd be in my boss' office in 2 sec. saying "see ya!"

You can easily imagine the samething going on especially when we are talking some BIG TIME guaranteed money not just working man's chump change.

So you think an extra $2-3 mil made the difference? If Pace thought Miami was a better situation he would have taken the $20 mil in guaranteed money rather than the $12.5 w/ the Jets w/ an '09 roster bonus to get it up to $23 mil.

Parcells DESPERATELY wanted Pace and lost out on him.


Parcels hasn't brought a Super Bowl to any of the last 3 teams he coached for. While he brought them all back to respectability, he didn't finish the job...and that was while he was actually coaching. This is uncommon ground for him. He's in the background now, and there's no guarantee that he'll have the same kind of success that he's had in the past in this new role.

As for Pace, the Phins wanted him but the Jets wanted him more. It's that simple.

A major reason he didn't win was b/c of his poor moves as a GM. Meggett and Byars cost us a SB, He wasted time w/ Vinny and Bledsoe in Dallas, in NE they stripped him of his GM duties then made a SB run and a big key to that run was Terry Glenn who Parcells didn't want to draft.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-14-2008, 03:28 PM
Because you can't fill every hole on a team through the draft. You say Pace is overpriced, but he hasn't even played a down as a Jet yet, so I'm not sure what information you're privy to that we're not. Whether or not his contract was overpriced can start to be determined after he's played a full season in green.

They stock piled FA's to fill obvious holes. We need guys on the OL, we went out and got 2 of the best available. We needed a DT, we went out and got one of the best available. We needed a pass rusher, we went out and got one of the best available. And again, as has already been pointed out, the contracts are nowhere near as bad as some people are making them out to be, especially if these guys play at a high level next season.

Also, the Jets are building through the draft. The best players on the team are all draft picks. Rhodes, Harris, Revis, Washington, Ferguson, Mangold, Cotchery, etc. The core of the team is being built through the draft and were doing what every team does in the offseason, tries to fill holes with the best available players...tries to improve their team.

You just proved my point. The guy got Joey Porter money and what has he accomplished in the NFL thus far? Thats what Im basing it on. Your team paid him on potential, not a good idea unless its a rookie you've drafted IMO.

You know as well as I do If the shoe were on the other foot you and your cronies would be yapping up the fact we spent that much on a no name guy. I personally was opposed to us signing him for that much. GL with that contract.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-14-2008, 03:38 PM
We NEVER sign high priced FAs! We have built through the draft and will continue to do so.

If you say so pal. Dont be shocked if Jersey B has a new GM within the next couple years.

Jets81
03-14-2008, 03:54 PM
You just proved my point. The guy got Joey Porter money and what has he accomplished in the NFL thus far? Thats what Im basing it on. Your team paid him on potential, not a good idea unless its a rookie you've drafted IMO.

You know as well as I do If the shoe were on the other foot you and your cronies would be yapping up the fact we spent that much on a no name guy. I personally was opposed to us signing him for that much. GL with that contract.
I proved your point by stating that the Jets went after the best available FA talent? Again, you can judge the contract size if you want, but as none of these players have played for the Jets yet, you can't say they're overpriced and be correct.

FWIW, Pace had a better year then Porter did last season, he's younger then Porter, and he looks like he's always wearing a Halloween mask. Beat that.

Jets81
03-14-2008, 03:57 PM
If you say so pal. Dont be shocked if Jersey B has a new GM within the next couple years.

He's right, the Jets don't spend in FA very often and they are building through the draft. Keep acting like you know better though, it's amusing.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-14-2008, 04:21 PM
He's right, the Jets don't spend in FA very often and they are building through the draft. Keep acting like you know better though, it's amusing.

You're right, I guess over 100 mill in guaranteed money isn't "that often". The only thing thats going to be amusing is when the Jets pull a repeat of last season after spending all that loot.

Too bad there weren't any QB's on the market for you guys to throw 25 mill in guaranteed money at. I dont care what any of you Jet fans think, you guys are about as bad off as us in that area. :lol:

Jets81
03-14-2008, 04:32 PM
You're right, I guess over 100 mill in guaranteed money isn't "that often". The only thing thats going to be amusing is when the Jets pull a repeat of last season after spending all that loot.

Too bad there weren't any QB's on the market for you guys to throw 25 mill in guaranteed money at. I dont care what any of you Jet fans think, you guys are about as bad off as us in that area. :lol:

I'm trying to figure out your logic here. The Jets have been on a spending spree this offseason. When was the last time you can remember the Jets going on a spending spree like this? To me, the Redskins spend big in free agency "often". IE, they do it what seems like at least every other year. Maybe you could clarify your understanding of "often".

There were QB's on the market but they all sucked. You should know, your team picked one up and he probably has a pretty good shot at starting next season.

nyjunc
03-15-2008, 06:17 AM
You just proved my point. The guy got Joey Porter money and what has he accomplished in the NFL thus far? Thats what Im basing it on. Your team paid him on potential, not a good idea unless its a rookie you've drafted IMO.

You know as well as I do If the shoe were on the other foot you and your cronies would be yapping up the fact we spent that much on a no name guy. I personally was opposed to us signing him for that much. GL with that contract.

Jorey ZPorter didn't deserve Joey porter money, the dolphins paid for a name while the Jets paid for potential. At least pace's career APPEARS on the upswing. The same couldn't be said for Porter a year ago.

You know as well as I do if you guys got Pace for the $20 mil guaranteed you offered him you'd be telling everyone what a great deal it was. The difference is we are not saying it was a great deal, we are happy we got him but obviously he was overpaid. We have plenty of cap room, all that matters going forward is if he produces. if he does it will look like a gfreat deal but if not it could look really bad.


If you say so pal. Dont be shocked if Jersey B has a new GM within the next couple years.

It's not if I say so, I have already proven it. We have a higher # of original Jets starting compared to you guys and compared to most teams around the league. We have built through the draft, we are just sdding some pieces.


You're right, I guess over 100 mill in guaranteed money isn't "that often". The only thing thats going to be amusing is when the Jets pull a repeat of last season after spending all that loot.

Too bad there weren't any QB's on the market for you guys to throw 25 mill in guaranteed money at. I dont care what any of you Jet fans think, you guys are about as bad off as us in that area. :lol:

When did we spend over $100 mil guaranteed? We spent $21 on faneca, $12.5 on Pace, $11.2 on Woody and $9.5 on Jenkins. That's $54.2 mil which is a littel different from $100 mil, right?(I am not sure what Richardson and Chatman got but it wasn't a significant amount)

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2008/03/breaking-down-the-big-four-dea.html

As far as the QB, do you have a QB that has 3 postseason appearances in his 4 healthy seasons as a starter? So regardless of what happens if Chad is on the team we start out way ahead of you guys at QB. Clemens and Beck are in the same position as of now.