PDA

View Full Version : Does Obama believe muslims will go to heaven with Christians?



Dolphin39
03-27-2008, 11:11 PM
According to this, Barack Obama doesn't even believe you must accept Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven. :(

Obama doesn't even believe in the fundamental beliefs held by every major Christian denomiations (Catholic, Baptist and others) So why does he even attend church?

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=73553

We learn more and more about Barack Obama and his beliefs everyday.

Dolphan7
03-28-2008, 12:13 AM
He sounds like Joel Osteen.

cwsox
03-28-2008, 08:23 PM
so Obama believes that all people are the children of God.

Ok, so what is the problem?

The Scriptures teach that too.

If you want to know what the UCC believes, to which Obama belongs, you might check out ucc.org

and it seems to me that Obama is running for president of all the people, he is not running for top guy in your church

HansMojo
03-29-2008, 05:44 AM
According to this, Barack Obama doesn't even believe you must accept Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven. :(

Obama doesn't even believe in the fundamental beliefs held by every major Christian denomiations (Catholic, Baptist and others) So why does he even attend church?

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=73553

We learn more and more about Barack Obama and his beliefs everyday.

Maybe Obama, like many Christians, is simply trying to provide an answer that accounts for people who have never had a real opportunity, for whatever reason, to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour (which is an issue that the Bible does not clearly and directly address) as opposed to the issue of outright rejection and rebellion (which the Bible does clearly and directly address).

While I believe the New Testament teaching that there is only one name by which we may be saved (Jesus Christ), and while I believe the NT teaching that no one comes to God accept through Jesus Christ, and while I believe the NT teaching that it is only because of the sacrifice of Christ and the Grace of God that any of us are saved, I'm not so sure that we as a Church have universally understood these statements as they apply in every possible situation because the NT does not address every possible situation. The NT primarily addresses believers and issues related to people who hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and either accept it or willfully rebel against it. But not everyone is in this situation.

What of the people that live(d) in isolated villages that were never reached by the Gospel? What of children that died while they were very young? Aren't these obvious exceptions? If these are exceptions, isn't it possible that there are others and shouldn't we leave these to God to decide?

IMHO, everyone that is saved is saved by Grace, Whether a person lived in Old Testament times or New Testament times, or any other time, we're all in the same boat. We are all saved by the blood of the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. Old or New Testament, the Messiah is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no one has ever come to the Father accept through Him. From Adam, to Enoch, to Moses, to us today, we are all, IMHO, saved through and because of the Messiah. The mechanics are a little different obviously...but the bottom line remains the same...IMHO it's all about Jesus.

Anyway, isn't it possible that Obama attends church because he loves the Lord...even if he doesn't have the same exact understanding as you? Who can judge his heart but God? :)

Dolphin39
03-29-2008, 07:52 AM
"those who reject that teaching can also be children of God".

This is the part I have issue with. My point is, you simply cannot reject Jesus and be saved.

Just Win Baby
03-29-2008, 09:11 AM
oh look, Dolphin39 with another Obama shock thread.

Mike13
03-29-2008, 10:38 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2008/03/barack_obama-1.jpgDuring a campaign stop yesterday in Greensboro, North Carolina, Senator Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is. (listen to audio clip (http://www.onenewsnow.com/uploadedFiles/Media/Audio/2008/03/27/Obama%202%20Not%20everyone%20needs%20to%20be%20Christian.mp3))


How dare he say that God loves everyone its not like its in the Bible or anything?:rolleyes:

HansMojo
03-29-2008, 03:00 PM
"those who reject that teaching can also be children of God".

This is the part I have issue with. My point is, you simply cannot reject Jesus and be saved.
The thing is, what you quote above isn't even Obama's words. What you quote above was a statement made by the writer of the article who is interpreting what Obama said and intended.

Theologically speaking, there is a difference between ignorance and rebellion. But who can say when ignorance turns into rebellion with any particular person? Who can know when a person has been convicted of truth, but rejects it and pushes away God? And isn't it possible that maybe in some cases peopl are rejecting the messenger (i.e. the "God hates gays" church with its hate filled message that even many Christians reject) rather than the true Gospel message itself? Is rejecting the messenger of a false doctrine about Jesus the same as rejecting Jesus Himself? How can any sinful human being presume to judge an entire group of people? How can anyone pass judgement on all Muslims or Jews? I personally leave that to God to judge since none of us know what is going on in anyone's heart.

Further, who can know when someone elses confession is genuine. How many people have "accepted" Jesus for social or political reasons. How many are in the church who have never been truly converted? How many fall into the category of believers who Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:

21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws." NLT

IMHO, God will look deeper into every human heart than we as sinful fallen human beings ever could. His judgement will be righteous, just, and fair. He loves us. We are His children.

Dolphan7
03-29-2008, 03:06 PM
For those who are concerned with those people in the far off reaches of humanity, stuck in the wild jungles of south america, and never had a chance to accept or reject Jesus..........

They could be saved ....if they hold to two things:

1. Belief in God
2. Follows the oughtness that has been placed within them.

Romans 1:18-20 says -



RO 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
RO 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
RO 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


Verse 19 says God has made himself evident within them, within people themselves. This is an oughtness of right and wrong written in our conscience.

Verse 20 says that God has made himself evident to people by what we see in the world, in nature, creation is evident all around us.

Creation tells us there is a God, our conscience tells us how to respond.

I know that this isn't as complete an answer as some would like, but I trust God. I know God is a just and compassionate God. And I know that God will do the right thing.

HansMojo
03-29-2008, 03:36 PM
For those who are concerned with those people in the far off reaches of humanity, stuck in the wild jungles of south america, and never had a chance to accept or reject Jesus..........

They could be saved ....if they hold to two things:

1. Belief in God
2. Follows the oughtness that has been placed within them.

Romans 1:18-20 says -



Verse 19 says God has made himself evident within them, within people themselves. This is an oughtness of right and wrong written in our conscience.

Verse 20 says that God has made himself evident to people by what we see in the world, in nature, creation is evident all around us.

Creation tells us there is a God, our conscience tells us how to respond.

I know that this isn't as complete an answer as some would like, but I trust God. I know God is a just and compassionate God. And I know that God will do the right thing.
Now that last bit definitely deserves an amen! :hi5:

Romans 2:14-16 also helps.

I know we don't take this point to the same degree when applying it non believers D7, but that's OK. The point is that God is Love and His judgement will take into account the light that people have been given.

Peace.

Dolphan7
03-29-2008, 03:51 PM
Now that last bit definitely deserves an amen! :hi5:

Romans 2:14-16 also helps.

I know we don't take this point to the same degree when applying it non believers D7, but that's OK. The point is that God is Love and His judgement will take into account the light that people have been given.

Peace.Welcome back to the POFO err.... ahem...Religion forum Hans!

Good reference to Rom 2.

Rom 2:14-16 is Paul referring right back to Rom 1:19.

It is not good enough to believe God exists, but how we respond to Him and to our brothers around us. Rom 2:13.

Cheers!

muscle979
03-30-2008, 11:44 PM
I can't believe he has the audacity to think that the majority of the Earth's population is not going to Hell.

Seriously, what percentage of the Earth does not believe that Jesus is the son of God? Some of you seriously think they are all on their way to eternal damnation?

Dolphin39
03-31-2008, 07:40 AM
I can't believe he has the audacity to think that the majority of the Earth's population is not going to Hell.

Seriously, what percentage of the Earth does not believe that Jesus is the son of God? Some of you seriously think they are all on their way to eternal damnation?

If any, who do you believe is going there?

Dolphan7
03-31-2008, 11:50 AM
I would think that after attending a Christian church for over 20 years, that Obama would have a pretty good understanding of the Christian faith and it's core beliefs.

Maybe that church didn't preach the gospel message all that well. Possibly. But I am sure they did teach on it, and the gospel is in every bible.

There is no excuse for Obama not to know and understand the gospel message, that through Jesus Christ alone are we saved. This is according to the faith that he himslef has professed that he is.

Maybe he just wasn't paying attention in church. Maybe he wasn't interested in spiritual things but more just a connection with people type of experience, social, political etc....

Maybe as a potential US President he doesn't want to rub the rest of the world the wrong way, the world that he wants to reconcile with if he gets elected.

I am not sure. But I do know that he is not demonstrating the faith that he professes to have. Which speaks more to his character and entegrity more than anything.

muscle979
03-31-2008, 03:25 PM
If any, who do you believe is going there?

I don't believe in Hell, at least not the conventional idea of fire and brimstone. Belonging to certain religions is beyond the control of many and it's hard to believe that if they have it wrong they are going to burn in hell. I mean most muslims as well as other faiths are born and raised that way. Did they ever really have a choice? Not really.

ch19079
03-31-2008, 06:53 PM
does this really change anything? does this mean anything?

the way I see it, most religions believe that you have to do specific things in life to go to "heaven", and if you dont do those things you go to "hell". but there are so many diffrent religions and factions of various religions, that it would end with only a handfull of people getting in. Where is the logic in that?

ih8brady
03-31-2008, 08:44 PM
:disapprove:

Shouldn't it be God's decision as to who goes to Hell and who doesn't? There's a fine line between believing in God and believing you are God. And even if Obama believed people from group X or Y go to hell, what kind of President would tell his fellow citizens that?

Dolphin39
04-01-2008, 03:16 PM
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Dol-Fan Dupree
04-01-2008, 03:46 PM
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

we have different definitions of the word "all".

Sometimes having conversations about the bible is like having conversations about poetry or Nostradamus.

It is like reading something and someone telling me the rose represented his love for his mother, it is very easy to see, when it is not easy to see.

ih8brady
04-02-2008, 02:34 AM
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Obama is running for President, not as a member of a clergy for a church. It is not his position or authority to judge the righteousness or the piety of other citizens. Suppose a Christian of a sect besides your own says everyone in your sect is bad and will go to hell while running for office. What would you think of that?

Tetragrammaton
04-12-2008, 01:13 PM
How dare he! Next he will start talking about equal rights for non-Christians too!

Even if a candidate believed that everyone else was going to Hell, you would be hard pressed to get them to say so. Maybe fringe candidates would, but not mainstream.

poornate
04-12-2008, 01:32 PM
I'm sorry... but since when does a matter of faith qualify or disqualify someone for office. Muslims pray to the same God as Christians and Jews... Why would anyone assume that there would, by adherence to these different belief sets, be a different heaven?