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FINOMINAL
04-29-2008, 07:40 PM
Nice additions to our special teams and the “trenches”. So what does that mean when we face our AFC East opponents? If the Dolphins and every other team got a little bit better, what does that mean for us? I hope we can keep opposing offenses off the field, but Brady and Moss don’t need much time of possession to put three touchdowns on you. I don’t see us scaring anybody yet…

FINSFAN2781
04-29-2008, 07:55 PM
Were not at the point yet of scaring anyone. This is a rebuilding process, and in a few years, we will be the ones laughing and asking, whose going to stop us?

Dolfan1000
04-29-2008, 08:11 PM
I dont get the point of this thread. What exactly are you asking?

zach8111
04-30-2008, 12:24 AM
Nice additions to our special teams and the “trenches”. So what does that mean when we face our AFC East opponents? If the Dolphins and every other team got a little bit better, what does that mean for us? I hope we can keep opposing offenses off the field, but Brady and Moss don’t need much time of possession to put three touchdowns on you. I don’t see us scaring anybody yet…

WE ARE REBUILDING. you have to rebuild the trenches BEFORE anything else.

sceeto
04-30-2008, 12:29 AM
Nice additions to our special teams and the “trenches”. So what does that mean when we face our AFC East opponents? If the Dolphins and every other team got a little bit better, what does that mean for us? I hope we can keep opposing offenses off the field, but Brady and Moss don’t need much time of possession to put three touchdowns on you. I don’t see us scaring anybody yet…
You saw the superbowl, right? How did they do when they faced real pressure from the trenches? it's essential and is exactly the way to start building a strong foundation, against the run and pass. Coverage sacks are nice, if that's what you're referring to, but remember the time in the pocket we would give opposing QB's?, any QB could pick any team apart with that much time.

FINOMINAL
04-30-2008, 12:45 AM
I guess I'm asking this- based on the draft, signings, roster moves, etc-

When will we win?

Wildbill3
04-30-2008, 12:52 AM
we'll win in preseason book it. lol.

Bill C
04-30-2008, 12:53 AM
I am no homer, but I truly believe we are significantly more improved compared with the other AFCE teams. My reasoning is that we were so bad from a talent perspective, even adding average talent would be a huge boost to us, whereas average talent wouldn't even make the roster in NE. Given that, I see us as the most improved.

Three of our first four picks will be starting and probably four of the first five. If Henne is better than McCown and Beck - you could have the first six picks starting on this team. Does that mean they are all great? No - it is more indicative of how bad we were to begin with.

phinfan33
04-30-2008, 01:07 AM
WE ARE REBUILDING. you have to rebuild the trenches BEFORE anything else.
i agree with this post,the foundation has to be laid before anything else can be built,and so far it appears that we're on our way to having a strong foundation built.

bert
04-30-2008, 08:20 AM
everyone- in a year or two.

Digital
04-30-2008, 08:33 AM
I think our defense may surprise you a bit. Porter was struggling with injuries and being played out of position as a 43 LB last season, but towards the end of the year when he settled and got healthy, he played well (one of the few ... if anyone was even watching by that point in the season lol). Porter should be productive for us this year now that we're running a true 34 and he's back in his natural position.

We didn't trade Jason Taylor, and he's still got enough gas in the tank to make plays. He may even have something to prove when everyone he faces makes Dancing With The Stars trash talk comments at him.

While everyone is sad to see Zach go, it was for the best. Remember, traditionally when we have had Zach healthy we've been a good defense, and when he's been out of the lineup we've been poor. Last year he was out of the lineup almost the entire season, and we were very poor. We brought in 2 new ILB starters in Ayodele and Torbor/Anderson. While none of those players is Zach, the new scheme and 2 new talented players should improve our LB corps and free up Porter particularly to make more plays.

Our DL really suffered last year, and that was our Achilles Heel (along with missing Zach of course). Letting Carter go proved problematic, and Roth wasn't healthy nor was he ready for prime time. Traylor was still good but even less able to play more than 1 or 2 plays at a time. Our backups (Soliai, Fifita, etc.) just weren't up to par. Bringing in Jason Ferguson is a huge upgrade there as he plays more plays than Traylor and is a bona fide very good NT. Plus hopefully Soliai and whomever else gets minutes there will be more experienced. It's a new scheme, so this is the crucial area to watch.

Holiday isn't a great fit in the 34, and he was one of our more productive players, so that's going to be a rough transition. Roth simply cannot play 34 DE, and I see him being let go or traded. Starks should do an admirable job at LDE. Holiday and Merling will likely rotate at RDE, although both are a little light for the position at the moment. Langford will likely backup everywhere and rotate in at LDE spelling Starks. Rod Wright should really come to the forefront in this system, as he can play all 3 positions up front. Ultimately, I think we overdrafted 34 DL guys because we really lack the personnel to play it at the moment. None of the holdover starters is a good fit for a 34 DL. That leaves us with Ferguson (trade), Starks (big contract FA who will start at DE), Merling (high draft pick), Langford (drafted higher than expected), Rod Right (veteran developmental guy with some talent but not enough to start, but has the size/skills needed to play in a 34 DL), and Paul Soliai (enigma with strength, etc., but the light hasn't gone on for him yet). That's not the most impressive list. If we fail defensively, that's going to be one of the main reasons.

Our secondary is truly horrific. Will Allen is a good corner--when he is healthy (both games!). He's not big enough, but given what we have that's the least of our concerns because he has some legit talent. He is injury prone, and that's going to be our undoing. Ditto for Andre Goodman, who hasn't seen a training table that didn't make him go "oooooooooh comfy!" In this league you need 4 CB's these days ... our barrel ends at 2 deep. Lehan was resigned ... but he sucks IMHO. Please don't even go over the other 'options' at CB behind Lehan, they're various flavors of terrible.

Safety was shored up a bit. Bell has talent when healthy (both games too!), but he's going to get injured as usual. Luckily for us we brought in Crocker who is an average safety, making him a huge upgrade over what we had last year. Sad but true. Jason Allen really came on last season and had a good year, hopefully that continues. All in all, CB's are a much bigger need than S's as nickle packages play about half the time and dime packages play a lot too. I'm most frustrated that we didn't add a CB in a draft deep in CB talent.

Will we be great? Most definitely not. Will we be the worst in the league? I don't think so. I think somewhere in the middle 1/3 of defenses is attainable for us this year, but likely to be in the bottom half somewhere. Next year we'll need to really remake the defense with several DB's, at least 1 pass rusher OLB and probably 1 ILB, and at least 1 more DL.

rev kev
04-30-2008, 10:28 AM
The probs on DLine put too much pressure on our DBs regardles of injury to DBs nobody6 can cover these WRS TES and backs forever... and Zach went down (sigh: Willis) here Crowder didn't step up like he was expected... there is a new ceiling on this defense...

Crowder will prove coachable or he too wil be gone next year... Matt Roth is coachable but lacks physically... Can either of these guys stay healthy is also a question... But it ain't like BP and sons didn't bring in some fresh flesh...

We will be better at point of attack...

STs should put us in better field position and maybe just maybe the Offense relaxes and sustains some drives...

Geforce
04-30-2008, 04:35 PM
Our secondary is truly horrific. Will Allen is a good corner--when he is healthy (both games!). He's not big enough, but given what we have that's the least of our concerns because he has some legit talent. He is injury prone, and that's going to be our undoing. Ditto for Andre Goodman, who hasn't seen a training table that didn't make him go "oooooooooh comfy!" In this league you need 4 CB's these days ... our barrel ends at 2 deep. Lehan was resigned ... but he sucks IMHO. Please don't even go over the other 'options' at CB behind Lehan, they're various flavors of terrible.
You are entitled to your opinions but Will Allen has only missed one game in the three years he has been with Miami and 11 games total in his entire seven year career.
I'm not sure where you get your "he's not big enough" opinion from but Will Allen is basically the same size (5'10" 196) as Pro Bowl CBs Asante Samuel (5'10" 185), Marcus Trufant (5'11" 197), Terence Newman (5'11" 181), Lito Shepherd (5'10" 194), Patrick Surtain (5'11" 195), Sam Madison (5'11" 185) and Ronde Barber (5'10" 184).

hilslo
04-30-2008, 06:08 PM
I think the most obvious effect of the added talent and depth on our d-line is this: nobody is going to be able to simply run the ball down our throat! How many times last year did the opposition hold their lead by calling run after run? How frustrating is it watching your team give up 5 and 6 yard runs one play after another? Especially when they know what's coming.

As mentioned above, we are rebuilding, and while I'm not prepared to predict how many wins we'll have next year, I will predict that my hands will be healthier on Sunday evenings because I won't have to punch everything in sight out of pure frustration.

Digital
04-30-2008, 08:42 PM
I think the most obvious effect of the added talent and depth on our d-line is this: nobody is going to be able to simply run the ball down our throat!

In time I agree with you, but next year there are definitely going to be times when people run right down our throats. We replaced Traylor with Ferguson, who will play more downs but is no healthy spring chicken. We replaced a DT with Starks, who should be an upgrade when he's in there. We essentially repositioned Holiday from a 43 DT where he could use his quickness to a 34 DE where he's going to be pushed around a lot. We have the same backups as last year except for 2 rookies, neither of whom is quite big enough yet to dominate vs. the run. All in all, I expect us to be better than last season and worse than 2 years ago.

On the plus side we didn't have Zach almost the entire year last year, but now we'll have Torbor, Ayodele and Anderson to compete with Crowder for 2 inside spots. We might have a better run defense, but it's not going to be a great defense vs. the run, at least not next season.

mmikel30
04-30-2008, 10:31 PM
Nice additions to our special teams and the “trenches”. So what does that mean when we face our AFC East opponents? If the Dolphins and every other team got a little bit better, what does that mean for us? I hope we can keep opposing offenses off the field, but Brady and Moss don’t need much time of possession to put three touchdowns on you. I don’t see us scaring anybody yet…patience grasshopper ...you have to crawl before you walk

nahmoss
05-01-2008, 12:22 AM
The only way to beat great QBs like Brady and Manning is to pressure them consistently all game. If you try to beat NE in the secondary they will simply spread you out and run it up the gut.

rev kev
05-01-2008, 10:10 AM
I think we have drafted very well... two extremely motivated DEs... Holliday and Roth will be pushed to get downs...

phintim
05-01-2008, 12:34 PM
We had a horrible defense until Jimmy Johnson came along and took charge. The first thing he did was stop the run and he did that by getting a solid rotation on the DL. Muller and Cam messed that up last year which caused I beleive the whole problem with the defense. In fact if they had left the defense alone and kept the DL coach they would probably both be here for at least another year. Anyway now we have it appears a deep DL line again that can be rotated to stay fresh. I like the 4-3 better than the 3 -4 because the 4-3 I believe allows you to stop the run better and the 3-4 helps to stop the pass. Shula had the 3-4 and we struggled too and thats another reason why I like the 4-3. Once we have the run locked down then you work on the pass protection. Thats when Jimmy drafted Madison and Surtain after he rebuilt the DL his first year. The difference I see between Jimmy and Parcells it appears that Jimmy will draft any type of player if he appears productive compared to Parcells whom has to have his prototype player. Parcells method limits you to the number of players you can draft and I beleive he missed out. JT and ZT would never have been drafted by Parcells and look how goos they became. If there is a hole in Parcells system this is it. As they used to say Shula could beat you with his players or your players but Parcells will only allow himself to beat you with his players!

burger13
05-01-2008, 12:39 PM
Nice additions to our special teams and the “trenches”. So what does that mean when we face our AFC East opponents? If the Dolphins and every other team got a little bit better, what does that mean for us? I hope we can keep opposing offenses off the field, but Brady and Moss don’t need much time of possession to put three touchdowns on you. I don’t see us scaring anybody yet…

so you're are upset that we don't scare anyone after 3 months of rebuilding following a 1-15 season?? what did you expect?