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View Full Version : Dolphins should trade Beck before the season starts



Altair
05-15-2008, 04:43 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

BobDole
05-15-2008, 04:45 PM
prepare to get your head ripped off.

you might be right though.

SabanHater
05-15-2008, 04:46 PM
:diaf:

feelthepain
05-15-2008, 04:46 PM
Maybe Beck just wins the starting job outright and has a successful season, thus no need for a trade.

fatkirstyalley
05-15-2008, 04:49 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.
DUCK!

phinfan33
05-15-2008, 04:50 PM
Maybe Beck just wins the starting job outright and has a successful season, thus no need for a trade.
i hope he does win the starting job outright and shuts up all his critics!!!! i'm pulling for Beck myself.

ticophin
05-15-2008, 04:51 PM
And, if Henne does not show anything this season, or fails to make the probowl, we trade him too and draft someone else next season?
Ask any Dallas fan how Aikman looked his 1st year...
Ask any Falcons fan if they would take back ol`#4 from Green Bay
I`m not saying Beck is the second coming of Joe Montana, but with last years Oline play, judging a hard working rookie and packing his bags is irresponsible


PS. Welcome Altair!

Jal
05-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

First off, welcome to the board! :up:

As for your opinion that Beck should be traded before the season starts. I'd have to disagree. I think Beck should be given a chance to prove himself this year, since last year he was kind of thrown to the wolves. As for Henne, I think he'll eventually become our starter, but I don't think in the first year. I think he'll slowly be worked into the starting spot, but I don't think Parcells and Co would want him to be thrown into the starting spot right away.

Just my opinion.

Fin88
05-15-2008, 04:53 PM
I think we need to find out whether Henne or Beck have the best future and who is the best fit. You cannot tell this until they both get a real shot to play in real games. I personally think McKown will be our starter in 2008.

tmny99
05-15-2008, 04:54 PM
Yeah that would be great. Let's trade the guy before we see what we have in him, so he could potentially go somewhere else and be a star and we're still struggling to find a replacement for Danny. No way! Let them all battle it out and may the best man win. The good thing about this competition is that for the first time in years, we will truly emerge with the best player at the position taking snaps--not like rigged "camp competitions" that we've been accustomed to here (e.g. Jay Fiedler beating out Damon Huard)

Breed
05-15-2008, 04:56 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

http://www.randomdeveloper.com/images/upload/IncomingBaby.jpg

Take cover...

dlockz
05-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Lets just say we agree with you for a minute and overall beyond this season I dont see a chance for beck to be the starter. the problem with trying to trade Beck is he really has very little value elsewhere at this point. he is unproven and there is basically no market established for him. If we try to trade him the perception will be at this point we dont think alot of him. I truly think he will compete for job this year and in future be one of the better backups in the league behind Henne. I see no need to trade a 27 year old backup that will come in handy if someone gets hurt. Beck is a very bright guy and I think he can excel in an NFL backup role.
Reminds me of Todd collins.

dolpns13
05-15-2008, 04:58 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

I dont care who starts as long as they earned it. I dont know, if Henne doesnt get his head out of his *** like where it was throughout the rookie minicamps, he might be the one getting traded.

But heres to fair competition, may the best man win.. Even if its Luke

dlockz
05-15-2008, 04:58 PM
Yeah that would be great. Let's trade the guy before we see what we have in him, so he could potentially go somewhere else and be a star and we're still struggling to find a replacement for Danny. No way! Let them all battle it out and may the best man win. The good thing about this competition is that for the first time in years, we will truly emerge with the best player at the position taking snaps--not like rigged "camp competitions" that we've been accustomed to here (e.g. Jay Fiedler beating out Damon Huard)

Not sure we get a fair competition this year.

Altair
05-15-2008, 04:59 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.

Raoul Duke
05-15-2008, 05:02 PM
dude ur bout to get ripped another ******* just be warned. if i were u id live in a bullet proof bubble cuz once the OMG WE NEED EVERY DOLPHIN THATS EVERY BEEN A DOLPHIN TO STAY A DOLPHIN people get on they're are going to come fully loaded...aks, tech 9s, mac 10s, rpgs...wait i play way to much GTA 4

dlockz
05-15-2008, 05:02 PM
I dont care who starts as long as they earned it. I dont know, if Henne doesnt get his head out of his *** like where it was throughout the rookie minicamps, he might be the one getting traded.

But heres to fair competition, may the best man win.. Even if its Luke


We phin fans seem to place more importance in rookie minicamps than stuff with actual pads on. Everyone piled on Brady Quinn last year after minicamp but when the pads were on in preseason he was excellant. In shorts Joe Toledo was an all pro. Abraham Wright was king of rookie minicamp and did nothing. If Henne sucks when training camp starts thats a differant story.

RockyMtnPhinfan
05-15-2008, 05:02 PM
Dude....if they truly thought that Beck wasn't going to have a shot at starting why would they have not drafted a QB earlier? They waited until the second pick to get Henne. More potential talent in the pool, IMO, will help us end up with at least ONE good QB. If we have two, then trade one of them....but let the other shoe drop before you go sending off someone without knowing their true potential.

fatkirstyalley
05-15-2008, 05:03 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.
Welcome to the boards. The worst thing you can do is defend your original thought. Good Will turns to Bashing very quickly. I do not agree with your topic, but it outlandish either. Pooring gas on the fire.

dlockz
05-15-2008, 05:06 PM
Dude....if they truly thought that Beck wasn't going to have a shot at starting why would they have not drafted a QB earlier? They waited until the second pick to get Henne. More potential talent in the pool, IMO, will help us end up with at least ONE good QB. If we have two, then trade one of them....but let the other shoe drop before you go sending off someone without knowing their true potential.


Our team wanted Henne at qb it was very obvious if u were in draft chat room where people where praying that some other team would take Henne. There was only one other Qb we could have taken earlier and that would mean passing on Long.

Altair
05-15-2008, 05:07 PM
If they thought Henne was not going to be available when they picked again in the second round they would have taken him at 32. But excellent scouting and inside information from other Parcell alliances around the NFL allowed the Phins to play their hand and wait for Henne at 57. Rick Spielman and Dave Whasthisname would have traded both seconds to move up into the first round to take Henne and then would have proclaimed him the Savior of the team.

Parcells is a Master that is why Long, Merling and Henne are on the team.

Jal
05-15-2008, 05:13 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.


I don't think that John Beck is owed anything, nor do I think Parcells feels that way. However, Parcells and Co aren't exactly writing off John Beck, as they have been working with him quite a bit during the offseason to improve his throwing mechanics, bulk him up, etc.... I don't think they would be doing that if they felt he wasn't going to have a chance at being the starting QB. It's quite possible that McCown could start this season if Beck doesn't show any improvement during the preseason. But I think it would be a big mistake to trade Beck without first giving him a fair shot. Besides, I'm not so sure Henne and Beck wouldn't be able to co-exist on the same team, so having one start and the other a backup I don't think is out of the question.

dreamwalker
05-15-2008, 05:15 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.

Someone should have explained all this to San Diego. Then they could have avoided all the problems having Brees and Rivers on the same team. How dare they have 2 young (different) quarterbacks on the team at the same time? :shakeno: All it did was cause problems... If they had of dumped Brees after they drafted Rivers maybe they would already be a dynasty.

No need for competition...that’s over rated

gunn34
05-15-2008, 05:15 PM
If they thought Henne was not going to be available when they picked again in the second round they would have taken him at 32. But excellent scouting and inside information from other Parcell alliances around the NFL allowed the Phins to play their hand and wait for Henne at 57. Rick Spielman and Dave Whasthisname would have traded both seconds to move up into the first round to take Henne and then would have proclaimed him the Savior of the team.

Parcells is a Master that is why Long, Merling and Henne are on the team.

:lol: You're right about that.:lol:

Let's see if Beck is the answer first. Why would Henne get a free pass this year and you wouldn't give Beck a free pass for last year? Both rookies years.

Altair
05-15-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't think that John Beck is owed anything, nor do I think Parcells feels that way. However, Parcells and Co aren't exactly writing off John Beck, as they have been working with him quite a bit during the offseason to improve his throwing mechanics, bulk him up, etc.... I don't think they would be doing that if they felt he wasn't going to have a chance at being the starting QB. It's quite possible that McCown could start this season if Beck doesn't show any improvement during the preseason. But I think it would be a big mistake not to trade Beck without first giving him a fair shot. Besides, I'm not so sure Henne and Beck wouldn't be able to co-exist on the same team, so having one start and the other a backup I don't think is out of the question.


Point well taken. But assuming neither Beck or Henne win the starting job. Who is going to get the bulk of the reps in practice and who is going to run the scout team?

If Henne is the longterm future starter. Would Beck be happy as a career backup? Would Henne?

How would the Team Parcells explain themselves by starting Beck? They did not draft him and Parcells fired the guys that did.

That is not how things work in the real lilfe NFL. Remember the Huard-Fielder 2000 pre-season?

phintim
05-15-2008, 05:20 PM
Well lets hope Parcells opinion is right on Henne although he has missed on a few high round draft picks before and lets hope even more that Ireland is right plus the QB coach we have who is suppose to be a good one can correct Henne's issue at QB. You have to believe that the Dolphins brain trust believes it can fix those issues or they would not have drafted Henne. You do bring up a good point in a sense that if Beck does not fit the style of what Parcells is looking for at the QB position then Beck is probably not long term to stay in a Dolphins uniform.
I was against drafting another rookie QB this year until Beck had a chance to prove himself and would have rather seen us grab an additional veteran instead. "But" if Parcell is dead set on aquiring a certain style QB for the team then the earlier the better I say.
I also do not agree with Parcells need to aquire "only" certain style players for his teams I truly believe he misses out on alot of good football players doing it "his" way. "But" so far Parcells has built quite a few winning programs so who am I to argue.

Altair
05-15-2008, 05:21 PM
:lol: You're right about that.:lol:

Let's see if Beck is the answer first. Why would Henne get a free pass this year and you wouldn't give Beck a free pass for last year? Both rookies years.


2 reaasons:

The reason Beck was here last year has been fired.

Beck is not suited to run this offense. He is more suited to run the Green Bay Packer offense or the Eagles offense. West Coast Offenses.

xflashx
05-15-2008, 05:21 PM
But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

Undersized? Henne and Beck are both 6'1. Henne at this point sucked it up on the last day of rookie camp. Beck did nothing but over achieve in mini camp and workouts last year. He just had bad game play behind one of the worst teams ever. There is no clear cut sure thing that Henne will be a better QB. If anything lets trade JT.
:buddwalk:

Marino613
05-15-2008, 05:22 PM
I am not sure I agree either, but I don't think it is a misguided opinion at all. There is no doubt that different types of QBs excel in different types of systems, and in the long list of reasons of how to handle personnel, not exactly fitting the system is definitely a check in the negative column. The question is how bad a fit will he be and how talented is he.

Also, I would want to see what people were willing to trade for him. It may be that we get more for him now while he is still seen as having "potential" rather than risking that he falls on his face, perhaps only because of the system. How much will a bench warmer who couldn't compete for the starting job when many are saying it was his to lose be worth (even if, had this been a wc offense, he may have wowed everyone)?

So, while I am pretty new here myself, welcome. Interesting and thought provoking opinion that is less Beck bashing, but a legit question about how he fits into the new system. I would love for him to succeed and I think the added competition is worth it, unless someone is willing to trade a DB or WR that is worth something.

Breed
05-15-2008, 05:27 PM
2 reaasons:

The reason Beck was here last year has been fired.

Beck is not suited to run this offense. He is more suited to run the Green Bay Packer offense or the Eagles offense. West Coast Offenses.

I disagree, Beck has the arm to play in any offense. It's just a matter of putting it all together.

dreamwalker
05-15-2008, 05:28 PM
2 reaasons:

The reason Beck was here last year has been fired.

Beck is not suited to run this offense. He is more suited to run the Green Bay Packer offense or the Eagles offense. West Coast Offenses.

Absolulty wrong- the reason beck is here is because he wasnt cut- like the other two quarterbacks that were here last year.

We had the cap to cut ties with him and we didnt.

If you use your arguement we might as well as cut ties with ginn and satele. Sorry new coaches sometimes do keep holdovers from other coaching staff. If they see potential they do not and will not cut them

Oh and the west coast offense arguement is wrong also. the man is smart, has a good arm and has a quick release. what in that screams west coast offense?

Roth's Wrath
05-15-2008, 05:30 PM
This is torture guys, i don't even know why I read this whole thread! Give Beck a break for once people, the kid has done everything the coaches have asked for him, he had a rigorous offseason, threw like 4,000 passes with Coach Lee, he was a workout warrior this offseason, he has a good shot at starting this year, Parcells has 3 guys that can start the '08 season, this is a great thing! I say let the competition begin! and lets not jump to conclusions too fas cuz they guys are just running around in shorts , wait till the hitting begins .

RockyMtnPhinfan
05-15-2008, 05:32 PM
Jeff Ireland mentioned in an earlier report that, while he was involved in the 07' draft with Dallas, that Beck was high on their list. So maybe he IS a parcells guy. Right?

Sh*t Man......it doesn't matter.....we have a decent OL and the Ronnie/Ricky express with a Jalen Parmele backer.....Trent Dilfer could unretire and come back and do well with this type of running power. GO R&R!!!

silvrwrx
05-15-2008, 05:34 PM
I'll pass. Beck has no value and i would rather have another young QB than a 5th or 6th round pick next year.

xflashx
05-15-2008, 05:35 PM
John Beck can run Dan Henning's type of offense if thats what they are going for. He's not just a West Coast QB. Also... how do you know so well what John Beck is incapable of and what not? How is Chad Henne any better than him? He locks onto recievers, holds the ball a little to long, stays in the pocket but doesn't have a quickness to avoid a pass rusher. Henne to me just seems a little raw right now. I'm sure Beck still is but he just seems like overall he's got the makeup of a great QB. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
:buddwalk:

haoleboy
05-15-2008, 05:36 PM
Two capable QB's fighting it out cannot be a bad thing. If one of them steps up we've found our guy. If they both step up we trade one of 'em for a higher pick. It makes no sense to trade Beck now.

dreamwalker
05-15-2008, 05:37 PM
I'll pass. Beck has no value and i would rather have another young QB than a 5th or 6th round pick next year.

you mean a 2nd or 3rd, they would have no problems getting a 3rd at all. he didnt do enough last year to lose value.

dlockz
05-15-2008, 05:39 PM
Jeff Ireland mentioned in an earlier report that, while he was involved in the 07' draft with Dallas, that Beck was high on their list. So maybe he IS a parcells guy. Right?


Maybe but find it strange they did not draft a qb. So unless Ireland thought he was worth only a third rounder because they did not have second rounder.

EvilDylan
05-15-2008, 05:40 PM
Beck is a top level athlete, top level athletes can adapt to their surroundings easily most of the time. Especially intelligent top level athletes. You don't get to where he is right now by sucking.

also the last coaching staff drafted ginn, soliai, satele, should they get cut too just because cam and crew drafted them?

dreamwalker
05-15-2008, 05:43 PM
Beck is a top level athlete, top level athletes can adapt to their surroundings easily most of the time. Especially intelligent top level athletes. You don't get to where he is right now by sucking.

also the last coaching staff drafted ginn, soliai, satele, should they get cut too just because cam and crew drafted them?

Thanks for reinforcing my point

Vertical Limit
05-15-2008, 05:44 PM
Why would we trade Beck? He's our best QB prospect and the best QB on our roster. We will be left with Henne who is a Grossman clone and McCown, who is McCown.

Tupac Shakur
05-15-2008, 05:54 PM
:limp:

Dfan06
05-15-2008, 05:55 PM
Who cares! pretty lame arguments if you ask me, John BEck college stats blow Henne's out of the water. So suddenly Henne is now better then beck! this is why every year our former players come back to hunt us. So if we trade Beck and he turns out to be major talent, what whill you be saying then? you keep them both until they both show they can out do each other,

NYinBostonFin
05-15-2008, 06:00 PM
We have 2 young prospects and a vet who never really got a fair shot. I feel better about our QB situation now than I have in years. Why would we trade one for a late draft pick? Because they might push each other?

Let them fight it out. Henne isn't ready this year anyway. Might as well see if Beck can beat out Mcnown before we even think of getting rid of him. Cam/Mueller aren't complete idiots, there had to be something they saw in him for not taking Quinn.

NewPhinPhan
05-15-2008, 06:05 PM
I find the arguements about "their guy" or "not their guy" funny. Same with the "they don't owe him anything" statements.

Last I saw, we have 3 QB's on the roster. TWO of them are signed. Beck and McCown. They are OWED $$$$. They are invested in by the team. Right now, Henne is the only one NOT owed anything, until he signs.

To anyone with eyes and ears it's been obvious the amount of TIME the FO has invested in Beck. You can read about it anytime, if you put in the effort. Whether they drafted him or not doesn't matter. Maybe to fans it does, as this theme keeps coming up and people look for ways of making a player worth more or less than another. But it's stupid.

If all of these statements about "the old regime's players" were correct, they wouldn't have put so much time into the QBs, brought in a QB coach FIRST, etc.

Beck is as much "Their" guy as Henne and McCown. Why? Because he's a Dolphin. There will be a QB competition this fall, and may the best QB win.

I'm gunning for Beck, of course, and expect him to win the job. But the BEST man will win. Whomever that might be.

Vaark
05-15-2008, 06:07 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2008/12/1zgc3np-1.jpg

Hellweed
05-15-2008, 06:13 PM
There's no value in trading Beck because he has yet to prove himself worth anything. He's still an unknown commodity right now. As is Henne. We, everyone, needs 3 QBs going into the season anyhow. Not really a thought out idea.

Nosferatu
05-15-2008, 06:16 PM
Having 3 QB's competing for the starting job is not a bad thing. At least it gives you a higher probability of finding out who can do what.

rev kev
05-15-2008, 06:20 PM
Lets just say we agree with you for a minute and overall beyond this season I dont see a chance for beck to be the starter. the problem with trying to trade Beck is he really has very little value elsewhere at this point. he is unproven and there is basically no market established for him. If we try to trade him the perception will be at this point we dont think alot of him. I truly think he will compete for job this year and in future be one of the better backups in the league behind Henne. I see no need to trade a 27 year old backup that will come in handy if someone gets hurt. Beck is a very bright guy and I think he can excel in an NFL backup role.
Reminds me of Todd collins.

Cooooooooooorrrrrrrrrreeeeeeecccccctttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rev kev
05-15-2008, 06:23 PM
Jeff Ireland mentioned in an earlier report that, while he was involved in the 07' draft with Dallas, that Beck was high on their list. So maybe he IS a parcells guy. Right?

Sh*t Man......it doesn't matter.....we have a decent OL and the Ronnie/Ricky express with a Jalen Parmele backer.....Trent Dilfer could unretire and come back and do well with this type of running power. GO R&R!!!

Let it go bro... this is conjecture.... and the TRIAD drafted a QB this year...

zach8111
05-15-2008, 06:23 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

Trade john beck??!! Why?! we havent even seen him play. and when we did he had NO TIME, NO RUNNING GAME, and NO RECEIVERS. beck wont get traded.

Stefins
05-15-2008, 06:28 PM
Great Idea Albert....
Now lets hear who you think the Fins can trade him to.....and what they would get in return.....

footballer
05-15-2008, 06:28 PM
LETS TRADE BECK, HENNE and MCCOWN to the saints for MARK BRUNELL... yea, lets do it.

Riftur
05-15-2008, 06:52 PM
Beck has a big enough arm to play in any offense. I think it would be rediculous for us to trade Beck without seeing him play. Even if our team was decent last year we still have to give Beck more than 5 games to prove himself. I dont think that Parcells drafted Henne because they gave up on Beck. I think I remember Parcells saying that he would draft a QB every draft if he could.

BLITZKRIEG
05-15-2008, 06:59 PM
Beck has basically no trade value, so I highly doubt we'd be well compensated. I think Beck will be good enough to hold onto the back-up position behind McCown this year, and we'll have him ready just in case we need him. As for Henne, I don't think he'll be rushed into anything as a rookie, his time will come in 2009....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Jal
05-15-2008, 07:06 PM
If Henne is the longterm future starter. Would Beck be happy as a career backup? Would Henne?

How would the Team Parcells explain themselves by starting Beck? They did not draft him and Parcells fired the guys that did.

That is not how things work in the real lilfe NFL. Remember the Huard-Fielder 2000 pre-season?


I personally can't speak for either QB, but I think Henne could accept the backup role for a couple years, since he's learning the system. After about 2 years you might start having some pressure from Henne to play, but byt that time we might actually be able to get something for Beck if he's performed fairly well. But right now, as other people have pointed out, Beck just doesn't have any value on the trade block because he hasn't proven himself yet.

We also have to remember Beck and Henne's age difference. Henne has time to develop whereas Beck would need to show something right away since he's older. I'd say give Beck a chance to prove himself now and then Henne can step in later if Beck still doesn't pan out. In any case, I think we could be looking pretty good in a couple of years if things play out right and we end up with 2 good QBs (similar to the Chargers situation with Brees and Rivers).

As for Parcells explaning why they are starting Beck - it's simple - you state that you are starting the best QB at the position. This means they don't get into this regime, that regime mindset - Each player on the roster is here because they play for this organization. If our coaching staff has an us versus them mentality regarding their players, then we have bigger problems to worry about and we'll be looking for a new coaching staff soon.

oodolphins
05-15-2008, 07:18 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.


Please go back to playing Assassin's Creed. :shakeno:

mfish41
05-15-2008, 07:19 PM
I find the arguements about "their guy" or "not their guy" funny. Same with the "they don't owe him anything" statements.

Last I saw, we have 3 QB's on the roster. TWO of them are signed. Beck and McCown. They are OWED $$$$. They are invested in by the team. Right now, Henne is the only one NOT owed anything, until he signs.

To anyone with eyes and ears it's been obvious the amount of TIME the FO has invested in Beck. You can read about it anytime, if you put in the effort. Whether they drafted him or not doesn't matter. Maybe to fans it does, as this theme keeps coming up and people look for ways of making a player worth more or less than another. But it's stupid.

If all of these statements about "the old regime's players" were correct, they wouldn't have put so much time into the QBs, brought in a QB coach FIRST, etc.

Beck is as much "Their" guy as Henne and McCown. Why? Because he's a Dolphin. There will be a QB competition this fall, and may the best QB win.

I'm gunning for Beck, of course, and expect him to win the job. But the BEST man will win. Whomever that might be.


and then 4,000 throws and countless hours with john beck later, they drafted a qb in the 2nd round........ john beck is not part of the plan, and unless he plays out of his mind and seperates himself from the other two he'll be gone by the trade deadline, the reason he is here is there's no risk in giving him a fair assesment

WVDolphan
05-15-2008, 07:26 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

I agree Beck should be traded. I figure he has already been offered. The problem is there is no market for him.

The last two paragraphs are dead on and you are really stating the obvious. Well obvious to everyone not on FH.

And I havent read any responses to your post yet. Even though I havent, hows it feel to have your head ripped off for stating the obvious?

WVDolphan
05-15-2008, 07:32 PM
Lets just say we agree with you for a minute and overall beyond this season I dont see a chance for beck to be the starter. the problem with trying to trade Beck is he really has very little value elsewhere at this point. he is unproven and there is basically no market established for him. If we try to trade him the perception will be at this point we dont think alot of him. I truly think he will compete for job this year and in future be one of the better backups in the league behind Henne. I see no need to trade a 27 year old backup that will come in handy if someone gets hurt. Beck is a very bright guy and I think he can excel in an NFL backup role.
Reminds me of Todd collins.

I thought he reminded you of Brandon Doman Lockz?

WVDolphan
05-15-2008, 07:33 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.

Stop stating the obvious already. Youre making too much sense. Its all about spinning things into making the Beckheaven. Now go root for the Jets. :lol:

chub
05-15-2008, 07:34 PM
I dont understand why anyone would want to trade Beck at this point?
His value is as low as it could be, yet we have not given the kid a chance to succeed yet. Sure he looked awful last year but the fact is he should of never even played.

I mean Green started the season and was definately not fantastic yet he had healthy players till he got hurt. Then Cleo played and played very poorly. By the time Beck was started he had no oline, no running game, no receivers, and worst of all no defense. He was playing from behind always.

The good thing about Beck is Cleo was a vet and sucked, I can atleast understand why Beck could suck too.

I am not a Beck bandwagon person, yet I still would like to see what this can or can not do. I hope he wins the starting job out of camp.

As for McCown, I think he could be the starter and actually play pretty well, if we protect him and have a running game. He will never be a star but he could be very servicable for sometime.

As for Henne, I dont know much about him. Yet he is a rookie QB and I dont see him sniffing the field at all this year unless he is totally awesome in the preseason etc. Even if he is awesome, I still dont think he sees any playing time for good reason. As Beck should have been treated his first year.

May the best qb win, I hope that is Beck. I am a fan of all of our players, I want them all to succeed. I would love to see arguments around here next year about trading qb's because we have too much talent, that would be a first in a very longtime.

DeeperImage
05-15-2008, 07:36 PM
I think we need to give him a fair chance, even though I am far from a fan of Beck, and was less than impressed with him last year.

I don't want us to make another mistake and not allow him the opportunity to fight for the job.

WVDolphan
05-15-2008, 07:37 PM
If they thought Henne was not going to be available when they picked again in the second round they would have taken him at 32. But excellent scouting and inside information from other Parcell alliances around the NFL allowed the Phins to play their hand and wait for Henne at 57. Rick Spielman and Dave Whasthisname would have traded both seconds to move up into the first round to take Henne and then would have proclaimed him the Savior of the team.

Parcells is a Master that is why Long, Merling and Henne are on the team.

Dude you have to stop. Everyone knows that the difference between not reaching for a guy at 32 when the FO has a good feeling he will be there at 57, and would just trade back up should someone had selected Brohm, means that the FO feels like Beck is gold. Otherwise they wouldve reached at 32 for a guy who can be taken just as well at 57.

huthut
05-15-2008, 07:37 PM
Are You Suprised Cam Did Not Try To Make A Possible Trade For Beck Being He Was Sold On Him And Had Worked With Him During 2007 Season? Why Was Flacco Drafted Instead! Makes You Wonder What Cam Finally Found Out About Beck That He Would Not Admit To Anyone? Kust A Thought!!

X-Pacolypse
05-15-2008, 07:47 PM
You got some brass coming on here and saying Beck should be traded. I disagree with that opinion. Nonetheless, welcome to Finheaven!

dreamwalker
05-15-2008, 07:50 PM
I agree Beck should be traded. I figure he has already been offered. The problem is there is no market for him.

The last two paragraphs are dead on and you are really stating the obvious. Well obvious to everyone not on FH.

And I havent read any responses to your post yet. Even though I havent, hows it feel to have your head ripped off for stating the obvious?

Come on thats a little silly really- i can pull stuff out of the air like that too. I think brown was already offered in trade- no takers

or how about they offered ginn and satele in a trade no takers

No links??

Beck is here because they want him to be here- thats it.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-15-2008, 07:55 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.


From the roster on NFL.com

John Beck: Height: 6-2 Weight: 216
Chad Henne: Height: 6-2 Weight: 225

Clearly one is the undersized west coast style QB and the other is the big drop back passer.....

And why does Henne get a free pass this season? Half of the posters are ready to dump Beck after a few games.

finboss
05-15-2008, 07:56 PM
Please go back to playing Assassin's Creed. :shakeno:

Freakin' hilarious!! :sidelol:

misterjb55
05-15-2008, 07:57 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

But how do you know that Beck is ill suited for this type of system.....
He hasn't played a single down this and he already doesn't fit into this system......

I feel like that everyone rushing to some sort of irrational conclusion about their own theory of the quarterback situation.

Watch if we do trade him to somewhere, before any proper evaluation, like Minnesota or Chicago and he thrives there and Henne turns into somewhat of a duck then were are going to have threads that are like "Damn why did we Trade John Beck"or "Henne is such a Dud".....

But on the other hand....Beck could be damaged goods and Henne could be our savior that we have been searching for over the past decade.....

But who the hell knows...... I sure dont.....neither does anyone here.....

I just want the best quarterback to play for this team and we have been desperately searching for one ever since Marino hung up the pads for a suit and makeup and TV....

Let see how things goes in the minicamps and training camp and preseason and to see what the people who eventually make that decision believes. I just dont want to potentially lose a really good quarterback to another team and feel like horse feces afterwards.....

It just seems to early to attempt to trade one of them before you really you know what you have....if you do, that means to putting all you eggs in one basket and hoping for some miracles.....

Well i dont want miracles.....I want result that came from a proper evaluation from the appropriate people, Bill Parcells and Co. So everyone, be chill and play the waiting cause thats all we can do. Speculation is not getting us anywhere........

Motcrue4
05-15-2008, 07:58 PM
prepare to get your head ripped off.

you might be right though.

LOL Lol that is great!:sidelol:

HybridPHIN 23
05-15-2008, 08:00 PM
If you dont want John Beck to succeed in Miami... you can't seriously be interested in what's best for the team. That's just how i see it tho.


No way we get high 2nd value trading him now.

dreamwalker
05-15-2008, 08:04 PM
If you dont want John Beck to succeed in Miami... you can't seriously be interested in what's best for the team. That's just how i see it tho.

If you look deep into this you are correct. I think beck should be here and compete. I think he has great potential- HOWEVER if Henne won the battle in camp I would be exstatic. I have a feeling some of the Beck haters would not be happy if it went the other way

Vaark
05-15-2008, 09:01 PM
What a fool Parcell's would look like trading Beck (assuming he even could) without seeing what he's capable of only to watch him turn into a Drew Brees while Henne morphs into a Kyle Boller. Could happen as easily as the other way around. Some legacy that would be. Not very prudent, not very foresightful.


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2008/05/2v0bxbs-1.jpg

Vaark
05-15-2008, 09:11 PM
From the roster on NFL.com

John Beck: Height: 6-2 Weight: 216
Chad Henne: Height: 6-2 Weight: 225

Clearly one is the undersized west coast style QB and the other is the big drop back passer.....

And why does Henne get a free pass this season? Half of the posters are ready to dump Beck after a few games.


Yah, maybe we should arbitrarily dump Beck and see if Henne falls flat in a baptism by fire over a handful of games. We'd be well positioned to draft Matt Stafford, who unlike Ryan, seems to be the real deal. And which Beck critic here has any traction arguing against the scenario that if Henne doesn't shine we get what we can for him and go after Stafford???

JsBaugh
05-15-2008, 09:20 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

Welcome to Finheaven.

Let me explain how this season will turn out for our QB's. Beck will easily win the starting job in TC.

cafinfan408
05-15-2008, 09:56 PM
just because Beck was picked to play Cam's style of O does not mean he cannot play a different style. lets give him a lil more than half a year that he was not prepared for. Myself not the biggest beck fan but seriously anyone that is ready to give up on him after that "season" that we had last year is crazy. Granted the fumbles did make me insane

FinNasty
05-15-2008, 10:08 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.

Welcome! :D

As far as Henne vs. Beck, IMO... I dont see much that Henne has on Beck other than size.

And he doesnt even have that much more size on him. They are the same height (6'2) and Beck is only 10lbs lighter.

Both have great arms. Beck is a little more mobile, has a much quicker release, and has better field vision.

outlawd2u
05-15-2008, 10:32 PM
This is stupid for one reason....... There is NO guarantee that Henne will be any good in the NFL. IThe very worse thing that could happen is for Miami to trade Beck and he shines somewhere else while Henne struggles and we have to pick a QB very high within the next couple of years. Not saying that would happen but it's possible and that would really turn my stomach.

feelthepain
05-15-2008, 10:35 PM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.

If that were how the Dolphins FO felt about Beck, the Dolphins would not have risked losing Henne in the second round when they picked Merling. Gotta love the Beck haters.

SpaceMountain16
05-15-2008, 10:40 PM
Yeah trade him now! While his value is high!

FinsFan74
05-15-2008, 10:43 PM
Yeah, I think we should trade a guy who had no line and running back when he started, therefore he sucks....hey I've got a better idea, let's all grab pitchforks and chase him out of town

feelthepain
05-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Yeah trade him now! While his value is high!


:lol:.....Sarcastic logic.......:lol:

SpaceMountain16
05-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Yeah, I think we should trade a guy who had no line and running back when he started, therefore he sucks....hey I've got a better idea, let's all grab pitchforks and chase him out of town

Who cares about all that logical stuff you just said! You must be blind! John Beck played four horrible games, he's obviously not a perfect quarterback, we must trade him now and start the proven college choke artist Chad Henne!

sceeto
05-15-2008, 10:56 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.First you say trade Beck sometime this summer and then you say if Beck doesn't win the staring job over Henne?? Well, what are you saying really?..that Beck has like 2 weeks to prove himself and win the starting job? How else coluld we trade him this summer?? :m359: My head hurts! All I can say to you now is......:morning:

sceeto
05-15-2008, 11:10 PM
I dont care who starts as long as they earned it. I dont know, if Henne doesnt get his head out of his *** like where it was throughout the rookie minicamps, he might be the one getting traded.

But heres to fair competition, may the best man win.. Even if its Luke
Dude! It's rookie mini camps!, for god's sake!! Rookie freakin' mini camps!! He's throwing his 1st. passes ever as a pro, but I get your point, he should've shown us whether he's our next Marino or not by now....:stitches:

sceeto
05-15-2008, 11:21 PM
and then 4,000 throws and countless hours with john beck later, they drafted a qb in the 2nd round........ john beck is not part of the plan, and unless he plays out of his mind and seperates himself from the other two he'll be gone by the trade deadline, the reason he is here is there's no risk in giving him a fair assesment
The 4000 throws thing is big because Beck's biggest problem was fumbling. He played a lot out of the shotgun in college, so just getting a good feel of taking snaps from center should help a lot.

BARF
05-15-2008, 11:24 PM
if we do that we lose out we will not get a 2nd round pick back for him

FinsFan74
05-15-2008, 11:24 PM
Who cares about all that logical stuff you just said! You must be blind! John Beck played four horrible games, he's obviously not a perfect quarterback, we must trade him now and start the proven college choke artist Chad Henne!
LOL...great post :up:

Altair
05-15-2008, 11:34 PM
From the roster on NFL.com

John Beck: Height: 6-2 Weight: 216
Chad Henne: Height: 6-2 Weight: 225

Clearly one is the undersized west coast style QB and the other is the big drop back passer.....

And why does Henne get a free pass this season? Half of the posters are ready to dump Beck after a few games.


Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?

Altair
05-15-2008, 11:35 PM
PS: Beck used up his free pass.

cafinfan408
05-15-2008, 11:39 PM
Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?

yes

Altair
05-15-2008, 11:39 PM
According to Scout.com Chad Henne is 6-3 245 lbs

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=3100314


John Beck is 6-2 216 lbs

http://mia.scout.com/a.z?s=62&p=8&c=1&nid=3124858


There is a big difference in size and weight.

Altair
05-15-2008, 11:42 PM
Hey I would rather have Jim Kelly sized QB then a pint sized Doug Flutie.

:lol:

Now if you will excuse me. Altair has some unfinished business in Damascus to take care of. :wink:

beatnut
05-15-2008, 11:46 PM
I agree Beck should be traded. I figure he has already been offered. The problem is there is no market for him.

The last two paragraphs are dead on and you are really stating the obvious. Well obvious to everyone not on FH.

And I havent read any responses to your post yet. Even though I havent, hows it feel to have your head ripped off for stating the obvious?
It would be a miracle if Henne became the starter this year. The guy was the 57th pick, not the 7th and I can't remember the last time a 2nd rounder became the man as a rookie.... maybe you can answer that for me. Watching the fins last year was so painful I would have rather been in church! We need all the help we can get so why get rid of a 2nd year prospect- if he wasn't worth having, BP & Co. would have dumped him (Lorenzo Booker) or made it obvious that they don't like him (JT). In fact, everything they have said about him is positive and if you know Parcells, you know to take what he says at face value- same for Ireland and Spar. These guys don't bull****.
Henne is going to struggle in his first year just like every other rookie quarterback and with the way he makes googlie eyes at his receivers, we'll get to see just how good he is at holding on to the ball when he gets smacked- if he even gets on the field. Most coaches (including BP) prefer to let the rookie hold the clipboard but if he does get to play, I doubt he'll start out as cool headed and accurate as he was in college- the guy's not Marino, or Big B. He'll run for his life and get the sh*t kicked out of him same as Beck did- good thing he's tough. I guess we'll get to see how tough he really is too unless you really beleive our OL is going to suddenly become air-tight just because Jake is here.

This team needs help in spades and realistically, Beck is our best hope at quarterback come September. Henne might turn out to be better, no one knows- we sure as hell won't know this summer.

Marino613
05-15-2008, 11:46 PM
The more I think about it, I only get this idea if we can get better value for him now because BP amd co. thinks it is too much of a risk that he will fail in camp. But for that there needs to be a better reason in my opinon than comparable size and a couple of years. The ywould need good reason to believe he is unable to play in the current system. It doesn't seem that they feel this is an issue or they probably would have tried to trade him before the draft for an extra pick or sweetened the trade for good FA with a pick of theirs (unless they thought they had little chance of landing another suitable non-matt ryan choice but I doubt that). Barring that, they would have made overtures by now, when they could most reasonably claim that "the kid has potential for a different system, wanna swap?" Unless, of course, they think he can improve his value in camp which would mean that he can function in this system, in which case, why trade him?

If someone had a quality DB or WR they needed to trade for a potential starter in a west coast system, I could see going for it now, but this offseason he has more value in competition and he may still prove to be very talented and capable in this offense.

SportsWorx
05-15-2008, 11:50 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

I am with you. But there are a lot of (Followers) that will support him no matter what.

dreamwalker
05-16-2008, 12:00 AM
I am with you. But there are a lot of (Followers) that will support him no matter what.

Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the norm

feelthepain
05-16-2008, 12:18 AM
Hey I would rather have Jim Kelly sized QB then a pint sized Doug Flutie.

:lol:

Now if you will excuse me. Altair has some unfinished business in Damascus to take care of. :wink:

Anyone else see something odd with Altair???

Dfan06
05-16-2008, 12:20 AM
Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the norm
rite on the money

sceeto
05-16-2008, 01:07 AM
Hey I would rather have Jim Kelly sized QB then a pint sized Doug Flutie.

:lol:

Now if you will excuse me. Altair has some unfinished business in Damascus to take care of. :wink:
Jim Kelly??? That's a good name to use around here as an example.:bugeye::up::motion:

sceeto
05-16-2008, 01:09 AM
PS: Beck used up his free pass.
What color is the sky in your world?

AquaAdrenaline
05-16-2008, 01:39 AM
Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the normCan't disagree with that observation.

Might as well throw the name Doug Flutie out there for the list of "little QB's who turned out to be pretty good."

Coral Reefer
05-16-2008, 02:07 AM
Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the norm

Agreed.

Some real crazy posts in this thread.
Not surprising though.

Love the Beck and Doug Flutie size comparison. :lol:

DefensiveEnd76
05-16-2008, 02:44 AM
We phin fans seem to place more importance in rookie minicamps than stuff with actual pads on. Everyone piled on Brady Quinn last year after minicamp but when the pads were on in preseason he was excellant. In shorts Joe Toledo was an all pro. Abraham Wright was king of rookie minicamp and did nothing. If Henne sucks when training camp starts thats a differant story.


Didn't you mean "in the training room he was All-Pro". The guy never got on the field for more then about 1 day and then he was injured

rich_devildog
05-16-2008, 04:15 AM
I personally think that it is a healthy competition between the two young QB's. Beck struggled last season when given the ball, however we need to wait a little longer to see if it pans out! There has been hall of famers who didn't start off so great, i'm sure everyone can think of a few. If we have a healthy running game with our new additions to the o-line it might make it a little more possible for a QB, no matter who it is to be a little more sucessful. Chad seems like a better fit because Beck had a bad start but the cream rises to the top and Parcells knows what he's doing lets just see what happens!

baddraft07
05-16-2008, 07:56 AM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.


i agree to a point ... i get ripped on here all the time, dont worry about it.

if beck shows that he is a good backup and not starting material then we hang on to him and try to get a higher vaule pick next year.... that is if henne can produce .....its to early to trade him and we need to get top value outta him....but your right he is not the future dispite what some of these posters think

FinfanInBuffalo
05-16-2008, 07:59 AM
Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?

So when the numbers on the official NFL website don't fit your previously held view of the world, you just make up your own? Can I do that too?

Beck gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds. Henne takes an hour.

Beck has 20/20 vision. Henne is blind in one eye and near sighted in the other.

Beck studies film for 23.5 hours per day. Henne plays Madden and thinks he's studying film.

It's easy to win arguments this way!

FinfanInBuffalo
05-16-2008, 08:00 AM
PS: Beck used up his free pass.

Apparently you don't know what the term "free pass" means....

FinfanInBuffalo
05-16-2008, 08:01 AM
According to Scout.com Chad Henne is 6-3 245 lbs

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=3100314


John Beck is 6-2 216 lbs

http://mia.scout.com/a.z?s=62&p=8&c=1&nid=3124858


There is a big difference in size and weight.

So Henne is fat and that's a good thing? If he can't control his weight at his age, he'll be playing NT in a few years.

dolfan121
05-16-2008, 08:01 AM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.
So I guess when San Diego drafted Rivers and the suddenly Drew Brees started playing lights out.....pretty good situation there, huh?:up:

FinfanInBuffalo
05-16-2008, 08:02 AM
Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the norm

Well said.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-16-2008, 08:08 AM
So I guess when San Diego drafted Rivers and the suddenly Drew Brees started playing lights out.....pretty good situation there, huh?:up:

And Atlanta traded Schaub for a 1st. Dallas traded Steve Walsh. This has happened before. Drafting Henne was nothing more than getting good value at that point in the draft and filling a roster that was devoid of young QB talent. A healthy competition will occur and hopefully the Fins will have TWO PRO BOWL CALIBER QBs on their roster. After 9 years with NONE, you'd thing Dolphin fans would be thrilled at the possiblity. Instead, some want to pick sides and whine. Sometimes its painful to be a Fins fan and not because of the team.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 08:10 AM
We phin fans seem to place more importance in rookie minicamps than stuff with actual pads on. Everyone piled on Brady Quinn last year after minicamp but when the pads were on in preseason he was excellant. In shorts Joe Toledo was an all pro. Abraham Wright was king of rookie minicamp and did nothing. If Henne sucks when training camp starts thats a differant story.

I understand there arent pads and minicamps and players will play differently once those pads go on. But what I am sayin is Henne DID NOT have pads on and he peformed terrible, normally players will perform better without pads than with and accounting for this equation, like i said, if henne doesnt get his head out of his *** he will be in for a hurtin. I hope he is the opposite of the norm of being great without pads than with. Like I said, I want all of our QB's to succeed. Im pullin for every one of them

Lenny
05-16-2008, 09:51 AM
FACT: You need 3 QB's on your roster, so if we dumped Beck we would need someone to replace him.

FACT: Beck's contract is cheaper than what it would cost us to sign a veteran backup off the street.

FACT: Beck's trade value right now is practically nil. Even if he doesn't win the starting job he can still build his trade value ala Matt Schaub by performing well in mop-up duty over the next couple of years.

Even if you are correct in your assesment of Beck and his ability to fit into this offense, trading him right now makes absolutely ZERO sense.

Ga. FinFan
05-16-2008, 10:12 AM
I couldn't make it past the top of page 3, sorry, but it's just to much. John Beck is a winner and is going to be a starting QB for someone in this league. Those of you who want him traded or passed over will some day look back and say the same things about John that you have said about Drew Brees and Brian Griese in the past. So post on I'll not even read this rubbish any more. Damn I'll be glad when the games start.

Maybe we will be unlucky and they will have Chad "Blue Boy" Henne start. Then he'll be bad and by the 4 th game you guys will be calling for his head, too!!

=FinTunaWorld=
05-16-2008, 10:18 AM
I believe the OP must be a kin of WVryanphan.

DefensiveEnd76
05-16-2008, 10:21 AM
I read somewhere that Beck has added a lot of muscle this off-season and he now weighs 220. Also, Beck measured 6'2 1/4" at the scouting combine last season so he is a legit 6'2" and 220 pounds. He has enough size!!!

=FinTunaWorld=
05-16-2008, 10:24 AM
I read somewhere that Beck has added a lot of muscle this off-season and he now weighs 220. Also, Beck measured 6'2 1/4" at the scouting combine last season so he is a legit 6'2" and 220 pounds. He has enough size!!!
:) Awesome.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 10:24 AM
I read somewhere that Beck has added a lot of muscle this off-season and he now weighs 220. Also, Beck measured 6'2 1/4" at the scouting combine last season so he is a legit 6'2" and 220 pounds. He has enough size!!!

Wasnt his original weight about 215. adding 5 lbs isnt really adding alot.. 6-2 225-230, would be nicer.

FinFanatic80
05-16-2008, 10:55 AM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

Stupidest F'n thing I''ve ever heard!

fatkirstyalley
05-16-2008, 10:56 AM
Stupidest F'n thing I''ve ever heard!
Stupider than.....Jake Long will be great because he is Left Handed?

footballer
05-16-2008, 11:08 AM
Please go back to playing Assassin's Creed. :shakeno:


yea, go back to the templar- oh yeah, stay away from from maddens franchise mode too- would hate to see you mess that up as well-

zach8111
05-16-2008, 11:11 AM
Chad Henne gets a free pass this season. But explain how do you convert an undersized west coast style QB into a classic drop back passer when you have allready drafted one and signed another in free agency.

I just do not see the logic in forcing a round peg into a square hole just because that round peg was a 2nd round draft pick of a previously failed coaching staff. Bill Parcells owes nothing to John Beck and he has said nothing to the fan base to inspire confidence in his ablilities. On the other hand he has given Henne a glowing endorsement.
undersized? he has good size for a QB. he is 215 (rookie season) and a little over 6-2 or 6-3. that is good size. so you are saying every QB from west coast school should not be given a chance like steve young and many more great QB's that i dont want to name because this thread is kinda stupid and we arent gonna trade him

DefensiveEnd76
05-16-2008, 11:28 AM
Wasnt his original weight about 215. adding 5 lbs isnt really adding alot.. 6-2 225-230, would be nicer.


No, the article stated that at the end of the 2007 season, Beck weighed about 205 and he added 15 or 16 pounds of muscle since then which would put him at 220 or 221 now.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 11:32 AM
No, the article stated that at the end of the 2007 season, Beck weighed about 205 and he added 15 or 16 pounds of muscle since then which would put him at 220 or 221 now.

ok,

I dont remember how much he wieghed last year. imo 220 is still on the cups of too light, but 230 might be too big for him at 6-2

SpurzN703
05-16-2008, 11:40 AM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

No thanks :)

DJRoss
05-16-2008, 12:25 PM
According to Scout.com Chad Henne is 6-3 245 lbs

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=3100314


John Beck is 6-2 216 lbs

http://mia.scout.com/a.z?s=62&p=8&c=1&nid=3124858


There is a big difference in size and weight.

I kind a like using the numbers provided at the NFL combines that have Beck at 6'2 1/8 weighing 216 lbs, of course that was last year. According to coaching staff Beck has put on more weight. 10lbs. So I guess that means that Beck is 226 now, or is that with a brick in his pants? :lol:

Hennes combine weight and height, what were they? Also does it really matter?

DJRoss
05-16-2008, 12:29 PM
Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the norm

Sad reality isn't it? Try and prop up Beck supporters as being myopic to the point of not welcoming in the new guy and seeing where this leads to. Usually people tend to ascribe characteristics to others that they themselves possess. So a crook will never trust anyone, because everyone must be a crook because they are. :shakeno:

dlockz
05-16-2008, 12:43 PM
I thought he reminded you of Brandon Doman Lockz?


I compared his numbers to Doman but I think he can be a good backup like Todd Collins. Not so much style of play.

gromet76
05-16-2008, 12:51 PM
Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?


you cant actually be serious with this post?

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 01:02 PM
Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?

I have never seen anyone try to skew numbers in their favor more than this post... holy ****

Beck is over 6-2.. he is 6-2 and 1/8th so how is that closer to 6-1
Beck is 26 years old, not 27
Beck apparently is now 216, how does that make him closer to 200

Wow, well at least we know which posters are objective and which are not. Well at least you somewhat protected yourself by writing "probably" in front of your quotes although that really doesnt protect your post that much from being blindly 1 sided and totally innacurate

TotoreMexico
05-16-2008, 01:09 PM
Dude you have to stop. Everyone knows that the difference between not reaching for a guy at 32 when the FO has a good feeling he will be there at 57, and would just trade back up should someone had selected Brohm, means that the FO feels like Beck is gold. Otherwise they wouldve reached at 32 for a guy who can be taken just as well at 57.

:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

You were saying we were going to trade up in the 1st for a QB, now you say the FO sees the future and knew Henne would be there at 57 :rolleyes2:

SabanHater
05-16-2008, 01:10 PM
I've never witnessed so much hate towards one guy that has only played in 4 games.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 01:13 PM
I've never witnessed so much hate towards one guy that has only played in 4 games.

No kidding, its ridiculous... And it wasnt even his fault which makes these threads evenmore laughable...

jlfin
05-16-2008, 01:20 PM
Hello I am new here but I have been reading the forums and decided to jump in and give my IMOs.

The Dolphins would be better off trading away John Beck sometime this summer. The 2 young QB system does not work well in the NFL and usually one of the QBs suffers for it and becomes a lockeroom cancer.

If John Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown Parcells would be better off trading him for whatever he can get.

Lets face reality Chad Henne was drafted to be the future starting QB and he was hand picked by Parcells himself to run a vertical drop back pocket passing game. John Beck is the incumbent selected by a prior coaching staff to run a west coast style open passing offense that no longer exists here.

There is no reason to keep both of them especially when Beck is ill suited for our new offense and Chad Henne needs all the practice reps he can get so that he can assume the job later in the season from McCown another Parcells handpicked player.

Gee, maybe we should wait until TC and preseason is over and evaluate the young talent on this team then. :d-day:
I did'nt realize that Beck was a "west coast" style QB (whatever that is). I always thought he was a dropback passer with a quick release and a strong arm. :rolleyes:

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 01:27 PM
Gee, maybe we should wait until TC and preseason is over and evaluate the young talent on this team then. :d-day:
I did'nt realize that Beck was a "west coast" style QB (whatever that is). I always thought he was a dropback passer with a quick release and a strong arm. :rolleyes:

I dont know where he got west coast from either but BYU runs a spread offense and Miami sure as hell didnt run a west coast offense last year.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 01:28 PM
Actually i think beck supporters will be happy no matter who gets the job as long as he earned the job through compitition....

It is the other way around beck haters would rather start henne even if it meant starting a dweeb- as long as its not beck.

Pro Beck- usually are not mad that we drafted another QB
they like the compitition and cant wait to see where it goes
if Henne shines, they have no problem with him starting over beck

Anti Beck- would like him traded
If Beck stays they hope he falls on his face in camp
they would rather have a journeyman quarterback instead of Beck to fill in the gap between this year and Henne next year.

I know this isnt everyone- but from reading the posts its pretty much the norm


Like you said its not everyone but I think you give way too much credit to the so called Beck supporters than the so called Henne supporters.

There does seem to be quite a divide on how things are looked at.

Beck Lover-rationalizes that since Henne was not taken at 32 that Henne was not in teams plans all along and is less of a threat to be future starter. the so called Henne lover speculates that teams dont take qb's that high just to push the incumbant. I definately do agree with the latter thinking just based on my knowledge of and view of NFL history.

I personally dont see most Henne supporters as wanting Beck to fail as much as they see Henne as a better prospect. The typical Beck supporter wants to quote college stats(which are quite skewed by offenses,conferences and level of competition) The typical Henne supporter The typical Henne supporter for whatever reason see Henne as a better prospect(I say whatever because there seems to be so many views ranging from silly to quite observational).

I do think people have a favorite one way or another no matter what they want to act like. I was in the draft chatroom on draft day and believe me it was like a voodoo circus with forum members begging for Henne to not be drafted. Before draft day most Beck supporters were very sure we would not draft a qb in the first two rounds based on hiring a Qb coach and the story got twisted to he was too good of prospect to pass up at our pick. I personally will be fine if any qb on our roster becomes a good qb. I personally think that qb will be Henne I just dont like to be looked at as being irrational to think that Henne might be a better prospect than Beck when our front office must likely think quite a bit of him to draft him in the second round with a 2nd round pick from the previous year on the roster. I have never said trade John Beck or he is a bust I have said from day one I thought we made a mistake passing on Brady Quinn and taking a lesser prospect in my opinion in John Beck. Ginn at that pick was not so cant miss that u pass on the biggest need on the team. This year I agree that Jake Long is the kind of player that you pass on a top prospect like Matt Ryan for. Where I differ from most fans of the Beck pick last year i dont try to pretend that Henne was the best prospect in the draft. The rational that Quinn sucked because he was drafted later than projected while somehow we were smarter than every team in the draft because we drafted a cant miss qb in the second borders on no objectivity at all.

I think we have a three way competition this year and in reality the only player that might have a big advantage is McCown based on he has shown he can win a qb position in the NFL and has been an NFL starter a good amount of his career. As for Beck and Henne the only advantage I see Beck as possibly having is that they want to get a look at him and evaulate him while they groom a rookie. I do think with the age differance there is more pressure to see what Beck has than Henne but I cant really tell you what is in the mindset of our staff like so many others try to. I do think there are way too myths being propigated.


Myth 1-David Lee was hired because the staff thinks so highly of Beck. Last time I checked all teams have Qb coaches and why would you not try to improve the qb's currently on your team.

Myth 2- Our staff thinks John Beck sucks so we drafted another qb. I do think they wanted to choose thier own qb but nothing is written in stone so much that Beck cannot develop.

Myth 3 - If the dolphins really wanted Henne why pass on him at 32. Hellyou can say the same thing last year about Beck why did we pass on him at 9 if we really wanted him. Both staffs took educated guesses based on info that we could get the qb's we wanted at a certain spot.

Myth 4-That either qb's height will be much of an issue in the NFL. While I do agree that Henne seems more solidly built, height or weight will basically be no factor in NFl success.

Neither of these guys are cant miss prospects, not that anybody ever is one but there is a reason that both qb's had other players at the same position drafted ahead of them. So lets please throw away the college stats and see what they can do. Phil Simms had some of the worst college stats of any qb ever drafted and he turned out pretty damn well.

fatkirstyalley
05-16-2008, 01:30 PM
I dont know where he got west coast from either but BYU runs a spread offense and Miami sure as hell didnt run a west coast offense last year.
Whatever we ran last year couldnt be called "An Offense" ...it

fatkirstyalley
05-16-2008, 01:31 PM
I dont know where he got west coast from either but BYU runs a spread offense and Miami sure as hell didnt run a west coast offense last year.
I think we ran a staute of liberty offense last year

gromet76
05-16-2008, 01:53 PM
Sad reality isn't it? Try and prop up Beck supporters as being myopic to the point of not welcoming in the new guy and seeing where this leads to. Usually people tend to ascribe characteristics to others that they themselves possess. So a crook will never trust anyone, because everyone must be a crook because they are. :shakeno:

actually i think dreamwalker is right on. and your first 2 sentences dont really make sense, but i understand what your trying to say (why would he want to "prop up beck supporters as being myopic?")

anyway, im all for welcoming people, but when their first post is comprised of inane assumptions and conjecture from mid air i tend to shy away from seeing where it leads (only out of bored curiosity do i continue to read these posts - and i never cease to be amazed at the absurdity of some of them). there are way too many things wrong with Altair's initial and then subsequent posts to really go into.

but to get back to your original post (and the one to which you were replying), from what i have seen, i believe (like dreamwalker) that most people in favor of beck would be happy if either henne or him succeeded... while it seems most anti-beckers would like nothing more than for him to be a complete failure and don’t really want him to get a fair chance. (of course this is not everyone, but rather a more vocal majority).

obviously not everyone falls into one category or the other (pro or anti beck). There are many who just want the best qb to win (which is where i fall- leaning towards beck though- clearly). Yet as I read through these forums a lot of the logic that is used by the anti-beck group (and I mean anti-beck not pro-henne or mccown) follow the path of something like this: That guy is wearing a red shirt, since I saw him in a red shirt, every shirt he owns must be red…etc…inductive logic… parcels drafted a qb in the second round…thats a high pick, he really likes henne....since he likes henne, beck must suck..etc

Wvdolphin is the perfect example of the anti-beckers that I speak of. Pretty much any comment, no matter how idiotic, that pertains negatively towards Beck will have a nice thank you at the bottom from him. I mean come on..really

These anti-beckers then like to put themselves on the cross as they are the only voice of reason amongst a mass of optimistic “homers.” As if a biased pessimism somehow equates to an objective criticism.

Ok im done…. just a little bit of a rant there

gromet76
05-16-2008, 02:15 PM
There does seem to be quite a divide on how things are looked at.

Beck Lover-rationalizes that since Henne was not taken at 32 that Henne was not in teams plans all along and is less of a threat to be future starter. the so called Henne lover speculates that teams dont take qb's that high just to push the incumbant. I definately do agree with the latter thinking just based on my knowledge of and view of NFL history.


I agree with a lot of what you ahve to say even though we do have different view points. Only a few things though:

Ive seen you bring this up before (in regards to the latter thinking)- just want to point out that Beck is by no means the incumbant qb. he has yet to prove anything- of course it makes sense to draft another prospect. but if the trifecta was really unsure of him they would have taken a qb at 32 or traded up a few spots. You have to agree that getting henne at 57 was a steal.



I personally dont see most Henne supporters as wanting Beck to fail as much as they see Henne as a better prospect. The typical Beck supporter wants to quote college stats(which are quite skewed by offenses,conferences and level of competition) The typical Henne supporter The typical Henne supporter for whatever reason see Henne as a better prospect(I say whatever because there seems to be so many views ranging from silly to quite observational).


Im pretty sure any qb we could have possibly drafted in the top 3 or 4 rounds would be seen as a better prospect by those who have this unreasonable hatred( or whatever it is) towards beck




Myth 3 - If the dolphins really wanted Henne why pass on him at 32. Hellyou can say the same thing last year about Beck why did we pass on him at 9 if we really wanted him. Both staffs took educated guesses based on info that we could get the qb's we wanted at a certain spot.


I think the large part of camerons strategy was to get both gin and beck. i also mentioned this earlier though.

anway good post though

dlockz
05-16-2008, 02:25 PM
I agree with a lot of what you ahve to say even though we do have different view points. Only a few things though:

Ive seen you bring this up before (in regards to the latter thinking)- just want to point out that Beck is by no means the incumbant qb. he has yet to prove anything- of course it makes sense to draft another prospect. but if the trifecta was really unsure of him they would have taken a qb at 32 or traded up a few spots. You have to agree that getting henne at 57 was a steal.



Im pretty sure any qb we could have possibly drafted in the top 3 or 4 rounds would be seen as a better prospect by those who have this unreasonable hatred( or whatever it is) towards beck



I think the large part of camerons strategy was to get both gin and beck. i also mentioned this earlier though.

anway good post though

I agree Henne at 57 was a good pick but Brohm at 56 was also a good pick. There seemed to be no secret that the staff really liked Henne as far back as march.

Marino613
05-16-2008, 02:28 PM
soap box speech:

Not everyone here falls into Anti/Pro, hater/"lover" :hug2: factions. Even in his original post this guy wrote "if Jon Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown...", meaning he doesn't think that he necessarily won't or should not win it. Thus, not a hater.

I have a suggestion, if someone new shows up and posts something that touches a nerve because all the "haters and lovers" already argued it to death just post the link to the thread so he knows what he is getting himself into. It also saves you the time of having to retype or cut and past all those old responses.

IF after that he still wants to go head to head and write stupid comments (I write stupid things all the time :unsure:), than do what you will.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 02:38 PM
soap box speech:

Not everyone here falls into Anti/Pro, hater/"lover" :hug2: factions. Even in his original post this guy wrote "if Jon Beck does not win the starting job over Henne or McCown...", meaning he doesn't think that he necessarily won't or should not win it. Thus, not a hater.

I have a suggestion, if someone new shows up and posts something that touches a nerve because all the "haters and lovers" already argued it to death just post the link to the thread so he knows what he is getting himself into. It also saves you the time of having to retype or cut and past all those old responses.

IF after that he still wants to go head to head and write stupid comments (I write stupid things all the time :unsure:), than do what you will.

If you want to reads stupid comments you should look at my posts 132 and 137 and the ignorance I am responding too, I think you will change your tune about the original poster. The posts continually get worse and worse and extremely biased

DrunkenFan
05-16-2008, 02:40 PM
I don't know if it was mentioned in this thread yet or not but Beck wasn't brought in to be a west coast style QB, considering Cameron didn't implement a west coast style offense, and with the hiring of Henning, we're going to keep the Air Coryell style offense already in place.

This offense doesn't require a drop back passer with a long ball, though both Henne and Beck have that. It's based off of the QB making quick decisions and being accurate, and using the short to intermediate passing game to set up the long ball. In San Diego Cameron had LT in there so they almost worked it in reverse since they had to use LT as a means to set up the rest of the offense.

Long story short, they brought in Henning because he comes from the Air Coryell lineage. Beck was drafted because his skills fit that offense, ergo Beck will be given every opportunity under the sun to be the starter, so to answer your question, no, they won't be trading him barring some huge development.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 02:43 PM
I don't know if it was mentioned in this thread yet or not but Beck wasn't brought in to be a west coast style QB, considering Cameron didn't implement a west coast style offense, and with the hiring of Henning, we're going to keep the Air Coryell style offense already in place.

This offense doesn't require a drop back passer with a long ball, though both Henne and Beck have that. It's based off of the QB making quick decisions and being accurate, and using the short to intermediate passing game to set up the long ball. In San Diego Cameron had LT in there so they almost worked it in reverse since they had to use LT as a means to set up the rest of the offense.

Long story short, they brought in Henning because he comes from the Air Coryell lineage. Beck was drafted because his skills fit that offense, ergo Beck will be given every opportunity under the sun to be the starter, so to answer your question, no, they won't be trading him barring some huge development.

Yeah, we already hit that tune. I dotn know why people thought Beck was, or was going to be a west coast style QB as BYU was a spread Offense and Miami has not been or will not be a west coast offense in 2008

Vaark
05-16-2008, 02:43 PM
I think we're being snookered again: "Altair" = "HenneFan" = Slippery Slop's latest incarnation. Right now he's reveling in the output of his trolldom.

dolpns13
05-16-2008, 02:46 PM
I think we're being snookered again: "Altair" = "HenneFan" = Slippery Slop's latest incarnation. Right now he's reveling in the output of his trolldom.

You think? He ratted himself into slipsoap last week. Wow, waaaay too much time on those hands

FinNasty
05-16-2008, 02:49 PM
I would love for someone to address my post earlier...

"I dont see much that Henne has on Beck other than size.

And he doesnt even have that much more size on him. They are the same height (6'2) and Beck is only 10lbs lighter.

Both have great arms. Beck is a more mobile in the pocket, has a much quicker release, and has better field vision"


Any takers? What does Henne have on Beck other than 10lbs?

Despacio
05-16-2008, 03:07 PM
Why limit ourselves, the more young QB's, the more chances we have of finding the guy. Beck has just as many positive attributes as Henne.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 03:10 PM
I would love for someone to address my post earlier...

"I dont see much that Henne has on Beck other than size.

And he doesnt even have that much more size on him. They are the same height (6'2) and Beck is only 10lbs lighter.

Both have great arms. Beck is a more mobile in the pocket, has a much quicker release, and has better field vision"


Any takers? What does Henne have on Beck other than 10lbs?

Proven himself against better competition, has played alot of guys that will be in the NFL every sunday. I see him as a better leader, more proven.
I dont agree that beck has better field vision. Henne seems to play better under pressure and has a better release point than Beck. Henne is slightly taller but in reality one inch means nothing. I admire how Henne as a true freshman came in and took the job and excelled and never let go even with more expirienced qb's on roster. He also has much more experience in college in a prostyle offense.

Zaphod
05-16-2008, 04:13 PM
Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?

Probably probably - how do you know? You're now just making up stuff to support your stupid suggestion.

dreamwalker
05-16-2008, 04:47 PM
Like you said its not everyone but I think you give way too much credit to the so called Beck supporters than the so called Henne supporters.

There does seem to be quite a divide on how things are looked at.

Beck Lover-rationalizes that since Henne was not taken at 32 that Henne was not in teams plans all along and is less of a threat to be future starter. the so called Henne lover speculates that teams dont take qb's that high just to push the incumbant. I definately do agree with the latter thinking just based on my knowledge of and view of NFL history.

I personally dont see most Henne supporters as wanting Beck to fail as much as they see Henne as a better prospect. The typical Beck supporter wants to quote college stats(which are quite skewed by offenses,conferences and level of competition) The typical Henne supporter The typical Henne supporter for whatever reason see Henne as a better prospect(I say whatever because there seems to be so many views ranging from silly to quite observational).

I do think people have a favorite one way or another no matter what they want to act like. I was in the draft chatroom on draft day and believe me it was like a voodoo circus with forum members begging for Henne to not be drafted. Before draft day most Beck supporters were very sure we would not draft a qb in the first two rounds based on hiring a Qb coach and the story got twisted to he was too good of prospect to pass up at our pick. I personally will be fine if any qb on our roster becomes a good qb. I personally think that qb will be Henne I just dont like to be looked at as being irrational to think that Henne might be a better prospect than Beck when our front office must likely think quite a bit of him to draft him in the second round with a 2nd round pick from the previous year on the roster. I have never said trade John Beck or he is a bust I have said from day one I thought we made a mistake passing on Brady Quinn and taking a lesser prospect in my opinion in John Beck. Ginn at that pick was not so cant miss that u pass on the biggest need on the team. This year I agree that Jake Long is the kind of player that you pass on a top prospect like Matt Ryan for. Where I differ from most fans of the Beck pick last year i dont try to pretend that Henne was the best prospect in the draft. The rational that Quinn sucked because he was drafted later than projected while somehow we were smarter than every team in the draft because we drafted a cant miss qb in the second borders on no objectivity at all.

I think we have a three way competition this year and in reality the only player that might have a big advantage is McCown based on he has shown he can win a qb position in the NFL and has been an NFL starter a good amount of his career. As for Beck and Henne the only advantage I see Beck as possibly having is that they want to get a look at him and evaulate him while they groom a rookie. I do think with the age differance there is more pressure to see what Beck has than Henne but I cant really tell you what is in the mindset of our staff like so many others try to. I do think there are way too myths being propigated.


Myth 1-David Lee was hired because the staff thinks so highly of Beck. Last time I checked all teams have Qb coaches and why would you not try to improve the qb's currently on your team.

Myth 2- Our staff thinks John Beck sucks so we drafted another qb. I do think they wanted to choose thier own qb but nothing is written in stone so much that Beck cannot develop.

Myth 3 - If the dolphins really wanted Henne why pass on him at 32. Hellyou can say the same thing last year about Beck why did we pass on him at 9 if we really wanted him. Both staffs took educated guesses based on info that we could get the qb's we wanted at a certain spot.

Myth 4-That either qb's height will be much of an issue in the NFL. While I do agree that Henne seems more solidly built, height or weight will basically be no factor in NFl success.

Neither of these guys are cant miss prospects, not that anybody ever is one but there is a reason that both qb's had other players at the same position drafted ahead of them. So lets please throw away the college stats and see what they can do. Phil Simms had some of the worst college stats of any qb ever drafted and he turned out pretty damn well.

Not wanting to draft Henne is not the same as not wanting him on this team. I for one thought there were so many holes on this team that it would be wise to fill them in places of KNOWN need than drafting for a position of uncertainty Now I am glad he is here because we could hit it big with this pick.

I fall into this category

I am a Beck supporter who now leans toward wanting Henne as our FUTURE starter only because of his age. I really would rather Beck start this year because this would be the ONLY way we could get compensated for the two high first round picks we used on quarterbacks. What we need is a Henne/Beck situation here just like the Drew/Rivers competition that happened in San Diego. THAT is cheering for my team and not a player.

If Beck lights it up this year then we have a great QB for the next 10 years. If he falters but shows promise we get back our second (or higher) that we used on him.

I do not use stats to support Beck- stats are useless. Some of the best college QBs failed in the pros and some of the most mediocre QBs have went on to shine.

Some big QBs have succeeded and some small ones have. It is hit or miss and if someone thinks (no matter who thinks it) ten pounds will make or break a quarterback then they haven’t been watching the NFL for very long.

What we have here is a GOOD thing and we should all be happy to have them both on our team. Trying to opt out of this situation is just silly.

Give Beck the chance this year because first year QBs tend to flail around like a dead fish for the first 10 or so games. (kind of like Beck did last year) if it doesn’t work so be it (we have lost nothing because we defiantly were not going very far this year anyway)

I have to stand by my earlier statements about pro and anti Beck. It is the norm but not the rule and it sounds like you may be the exception to the rule

DJRoss
05-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Gee, maybe we should wait until TC and preseason is over and evaluate the young talent on this team then. :d-day:
I did'nt realize that Beck was a "west coast" style QB (whatever that is). I always thought he was a dropback passer with a quick release and a strong arm. :rolleyes:

LOL Beck played in a Pro Set/Power Spread offense. That meant that he spent quite a bit of time in shot gun, however he did have plenty of under center snaps. The power spread dealt with new changes in how the RB's were utilized. But don't take my word on it (you know a guy who spent several years covering BYU sports for TotalBlueSports Magazine), just believe the word of the spec-clowns in here who like to make arbitrary statements without any facts in evidence.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 05:07 PM
Those same experts that think the MWC is on par with the big 10 in talent. lol.

DJRoss
05-16-2008, 05:12 PM
actually i think dreamwalker is right on. and your first 2 sentences dont really make sense, but i understand what your trying to say (why would he want to "prop up beck supporters as being myopic?")

anyway, im all for welcoming people, but when their first post is comprised of inane assumptions and conjecture from mid air i tend to shy away from seeing where it leads (only out of bored curiosity do i continue to read these posts - and i never cease to be amazed at the absurdity of some of them). there are way too many things wrong with Altair's initial and then subsequent posts to really go into.

but to get back to your original post (and the one to which you were replying), from what i have seen, i believe (like dreamwalker) that most people in favor of beck would be happy if either henne or him succeeded... while it seems most anti-beckers would like nothing more than for him to be a complete failure and don’t really want him to get a fair chance. (of course this is not everyone, but rather a more vocal majority).

obviously not everyone falls into one category or the other (pro or anti beck). There are many who just want the best qb to win (which is where i fall- leaning towards beck though- clearly). Yet as I read through these forums a lot of the logic that is used by the anti-beck group (and I mean anti-beck not pro-henne or mccown) follow the path of something like this: That guy is wearing a red shirt, since I saw him in a red shirt, every shirt he owns must be red…etc…inductive logic… parcels drafted a qb in the second round…thats a high pick, he really likes henne....since he likes henne, beck must suck..etc

Wvdolphin is the perfect example of the anti-beckers that I speak of. Pretty much any comment, no matter how idiotic, that pertains negatively towards Beck will have a nice thank you at the bottom from him. I mean come on..really

These anti-beckers then like to put themselves on the cross as they are the only voice of reason amongst a mass of optimistic “homers.” As if a biased pessimism somehow equates to an objective criticism.

Ok im done…. just a little bit of a rant there

I agree with what you said. That was the gist of my response to dreamwalker. I agreed wholeheartedly. I was stating that it was sad that those that try and pin "beck-lovers" as being as myopic as those that seek to hate beck. The Hate Henne posts receive no traction in that they are rather ignored, but the hate Beck posts light up this forum.

DJRoss
05-16-2008, 06:04 PM
Those same experts that think the MWC is on par with the big 10 in talent. lol.

Prove that is not the case? All you will come up with is arbitrary arguments based in bias. Prove that BYU and Michigan play different levels of competition. Using a number of multivariates that apply equally to both programs.

We would also need an empirical study over a period of time such as ten years or so in order to see how the Pac10 would handle having to travel OOC as much as the MWC while the MWC gets the privileged of stacking the deck with a gross representation of home games against the same competition.

The fallacy of your statement is that you actually believe that it is already proven. Unfortunately for you given the nature of the football season and the system we have in conference affiliations, it cannot be proven.

You would have to tie both conferences together for several years in order to actually college relevant data for such a study. You would also have to understand that football being a team game means understanding that the parts create a lesser or greater value of the whole.

Too many factors to consider in the current environment. Your attempt to ridicule my previous argument is like assuming that San Diego State must be the best team in the MWC because they had 5 players drafted. Or Iowa is better than Ohio State because they had 4 drafted when the Buckeyes only had 3 drafted.

Keep laughing, maybe you can take the time to actually look up how much of the NFL is actually comprised of players outside the big six conferences? Maybe you can actually evaluate the past ten years of the draft and see how many of those players who were drafted are actually still playing, actually ended up starting vs riding the pine or being scout players, and finally how many players have fallen through the cracks due to scouts missing totally on their assessments due to buying into the hype. I mean Ryan Leaf while extremely visible is not that uncommon (meaning a drafted player in any round ends up not meeting expectations created by their conference/team affiliation)

Stick to actual facts, and leave posturing hypothesis out of it and maybe your opinions my be more credible.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 06:10 PM
Your view about how close the MWC to the big 10 actually kills any credibility you may think you have. if byu was in the big 10 or six as you say they still would not be in that top 6.

feelthepain
05-16-2008, 06:22 PM
Your view about how close the MWC to the big 10 actually kills any credibility you may think you have. if byu was in the big 10 or six as you say they still would not be in that top 6.


Not the level of competition argument again?! Tell me, what's in this for you? What are you getting from arguing this thing to death?? Seriously, let the guy's play and whomever wins, wins. Honestly are going to stop caring about the Dolphins if Beck wins the starting job??? I know I'll be happy with whomever is the QB as long as we win, but this stupid argument is pointless. Let it go.

SpaceMountain16
05-16-2008, 06:27 PM
Beck is undersized that 216LB is soaking wet with a brick down his pants. Beck is probably closer to 200 lbs. Meanwhile Henne is probably closer to 230lbs.

As far as height. Beck is closer to 6-1 while Henne is closer to 6-3.

Age Henne is 22 Years Old.

Beck is 27 Years old.

Need I say more?

And you cant build a madden franchise with a 27 year old QB who's rated under a 70, so obviously we have to trade him! If we turn trade deadline off we could probably trade Beck for a third rounder in week ten next year.

EvilDylan
05-16-2008, 07:02 PM
Appalachian state is all I have to say.

DJRoss
05-16-2008, 07:07 PM
Your view about how close the MWC to the big 10 actually kills any credibility you may think you have. if byu was in the big 10 or six as you say they still would not be in that top 6.

Sure, because if BYU was in the big 10 they would still remain in a vacuum instead of adapting, adjusting and many of the top LDS recruits who opt to attend USC, Tennessee, Oregon because of the BCS would not be interested in playing for a Big Ten team with it's own network and a chance to play in the Rose Bowl as well as the mythical national championship. LOL, your rebuttals continue to illustrate your ignorance.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 07:51 PM
Sure, because if BYU was in the big 10 they would still remain in a vacuum instead of adapting, adjusting and many of the top LDS recruits who opt to attend USC, Tennessee, Oregon because of the BCS would not be interested in playing for a Big Ten team with it's own network and a chance to play in the Rose Bowl as well as the mythical national championship. LOL, your rebuttals continue to illustrate your ignorance.

If San Diego St or TCU were in a major conference yes they would have a chance after awhile with adaptation , exposure and so on but BYU actually has a few things that would work against thier recruiting, one being location and the other its religious affiliation. My only arguement with you has been level of competition that teams have faced and BYU has not faced or excelled against a high level of competition. 1-7 against ranked teams, a losing record out of conference and lack of NFL talent overall in the conference. Level of competition is somewhat important when comparing prospects. Josh Johnson's college stats are so much better than any other qb but are we to not dismiss his talent level of defenses when comparing him to other Qb's. I have never said that a prospect that has played against lower caliber defensive players cannot be a good player. I have said and stand by that John Beck's college numbers were good but very much a product of system and class of defenses that they play. How do you explain a 1 to 1 td to int ratio all time versus out of conference for him as compared to his 4 to 1 in conference his last season? Of course you wont even try to explain it, you will just ramble on how you know so much more than everyone else.
I'm not truly going to bash John Beck, he is a nice qb prospect that is somewhat overrated by some because of inflated college stats playing in a qb friendly offense that regularly yields very good numbers for the starter.
Max Hall already is putting up nice numbers as a sophmore in the same offense.I think of John Beck as Colt Brennan with a stronger arm. I personally dont hate Brennan as a prospect and think that Beck will be a valuable NFL backup in the future. If you want to debate that Beck is a better NFL prospect than Chad Henne thats fine and open to debate but to say that he did not play against inferior defensive talent is indefensible.
I personally to a degree love the debate on who is better but just quit trying to use college stats that are apples and oranges due to competition and offensive schemes.

NYPhinzFan
05-16-2008, 07:57 PM
I think Beck will do just fine, he now has protection, hopefully a running game, a TE that can do something and a good possession receiver in Wilforda and a burner in Ginn. This year will be the test to see what he's really got.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 08:02 PM
Not the level of competition argument again?! Tell me, what's in this for you? What are you getting from arguing this thing to death?? Seriously, let the guy's play and whomever wins, wins. Honestly are going to stop caring about the Dolphins if Beck wins the starting job??? I know I'll be happy with whomever is the QB as long as we win, but this stupid argument is pointless. Let it go.

The level of competition is only relevant for those that want to use college stats to compare qb's. If you want to say that Beck is a better prospect because of this or that than thats your arguement but for some that want to cite inflated stats due to competition and schemes level of competition is a valid arguement. I just dont get why the So called Beck lovers get into such a friggin tizzy whenever someone suggests that you cannot compare his college stats to other qb's. I personally have been a dolphin fan thru 5 years of jay Fielder so yea I could survive Beck playing qb. In just dont buy that somehow people that think Henne is a better prospect somehow have less of an arguement based on anything tangible.
Josh Johnson probably had the most impressive season ever for any qb, you dont think he has questions on him just based on his level of opposition. Colt Brennan completed 72 percent of his passes, you dont think scheme and competition might play a factor.

PhinSoldia
05-16-2008, 08:47 PM
Lets just say we agree with you for a minute and overall beyond this season I dont see a chance for beck to be the starter. the problem with trying to trade Beck is he really has very little value elsewhere at this point. he is unproven and there is basically no market established for him. If we try to trade him the perception will be at this point we dont think alot of him. I truly think he will compete for job this year and in future be one of the better backups in the league behind Henne. I see no need to trade a 27 year old backup that will come in handy if someone gets hurt. Beck is a very bright guy and I think he can excel in an NFL backup role.
Reminds me of Todd collins.

correction henne will be a great back up

etown08
05-16-2008, 08:55 PM
Why do ppl keep posting these stupid threads. Why would you trade BECK we dont even know who we have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So we can draft a bust, if he doesnt pan out then you trade him. Whoever thinks we should trade him would be fired as a GM.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 09:32 PM
correction henne will be a great back up


Anything is possible but I doubt we decided to draft a backup in round 2> it may turn out that way but if thats the strategy it would be quite flawed.

Vaark
05-16-2008, 09:33 PM
If San Diego St or TCU were in a major conference yes they would have a chance after awhile with adaptation , exposure and so on but BYU actually has a few things that would work against thier recruiting, one being location and the other its religious affiliation. My only arguement with you has been level of competition that teams have faced and BYU has not faced or excelled against a high level of competition. 1-7 against ranked teams, a losing record out of conference and lack of NFL talent overall in the conference. Level of competition is somewhat important when comparing prospects. Josh Johnson's college stats are so much better than any other qb but are we to not dismiss his talent level of defenses when comparing him to other Qb's. I have never said that a prospect that has played against lower caliber defensive players cannot be a good player. I have said and stand by that John Beck's college numbers were good but very much a product of system and class of defenses that they play. How do you explain a 1 to 1 td to int ratio all time versus out of conference for him as compared to his 4 to 1 in conference his last season? Of course you wont even try to explain it, you will just ramble on how you know so much more than everyone else.
I'm not truly going to bash John Beck, he is a nice qb prospect that is somewhat overrated by some because of inflated college stats playing in a qb friendly offense that regularly yields very good numbers for the starter.
Max Hall already is putting up nice numbers as a sophmore in the same offense.I think of John Beck as Colt Brennan with a stronger arm. I personally dont hate Brennan as a prospect and think that Beck will be a valuable NFL backup in the future. If you want to debate that Beck is a better NFL prospect than Chad Henne thats fine and open to debate but to say that he did not play against inferior defensive talent is indefensible.
I personally to a degree love the debate on who is better but just quit trying to use college stats that are apples and oranges due to competition and offensive schemes.

Whether it's apples to apples or to oranges, the relative level of competition and offensive schemes appear to have little bearing on whether a Big 10 QB has much advantage over a MWC Qb in winning a starting NFL job. That's the bottom line!

In today's NFL, I count 2 STARTING QBs coming out of the Big 10's eleven team conference(Brees and Brady). That constitutes a grand total of 1 additional STARTING QB more than the MWC's produced (A.Smith) out of its only 2-less member teams. Amusingly, if Beck wins the starting job, and in Baltimore Troy Smith does not, that would tie it 2 each (unless Alex Smith blows it, LOL).

So in terms of producing QBs whom their pro teams entrust starting jobs to (not counting backups and other "also-rans" because who really drafts for backups within the first few rounds?),.... then the level of competition which prepares a Big 10 QB for professional success as a starter doesn't seem to afford too much of a statistical advantage over the MWC. Again, the bottom-line is the bottom-line. As I mentioned a few weeks ago in a thread in which we were going back and forth about just how successfully the Michigan QB experience translates into Pro stardom outside of Brady, I do hope that Henne proves to be both the UM and Big 10 exception rather than the rule.

dlockz
05-16-2008, 10:38 PM
Whether it's apples to apples or to oranges, the relative level of competition and offensive schemes appear to have little bearing on whether a Big 10 QB has much advantage over a MWC Qb in winning a starting NFL job. That's the bottom line!

In today's NFL, I count 2 STARTING QBs coming out of the Big 10's eleven team conference(Brees and Brady). That constitutes a grand total of 1 additional STARTING QB more than the MWC's produced (A.Smith) out of its only 2-less member teams. Amusingly, if Beck wins the starting job, and in Baltimore Troy Smith does not, that would tie it 2 each (unless Alex Smith blows it, LOL).

So in terms of producing QBs whom their pro teams entrust starting jobs to (not counting backups and other "also-rans" because who really drafts for backups within the first few rounds?),.... then the level of competition which prepares a Big 10 QB for professional success as a starter doesn't seem to afford too much of a statistical advantage over the MWC. Again, the bottom-line is the bottom-line. As I mentioned a few weeks ago in a thread in which we were going back and forth about just how successfully the Michigan QB experience translates into Pro stardom outside of Brady, I do hope that Henne proves to be both the UM and Big 10 exception rather than the rule.

the big 10 and Michigan has had alot more success at the pro level than the MWC and BYU easily over the past 20 years. Name one successful qb from the MWC in the last 20 years. Brian Griese, Jim Harbaugh, Todd Collins, Elvis Grbac are all much better NFL players than anyone that the MWC has produced since Steve Young came out. Jeff George, Kyle Orton, Drew Brees, Trent Green, Brooks Bollinger, Tony Banks, Kerry Collins, Drew Stanton , Troy Smith all of these guys may be all-pros but are legitimate NFL Qb's that have been produced by this conference and that is versus Alex Smith and Ty Detmer and now John Beck. Yea its friggin neck and neck on producing NFL qb's. Alex Smith and John Beck are both in a fight for thier starting jobs so it could easily be no starters from this conference. Troy Smith, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne and drew Stanton could all be starters very soon while there are no more MWC qb's on the horizon.

harmonkoz
05-17-2008, 08:26 AM
Beck is going to be Parcell's disposable QB. He always has one.

While the O-line and offense is rebuilt Beck takes the beating. When the Oline and backfield is stable Henne will get the nod. And Beck will become draft picks.