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reese13
05-27-2008, 03:50 AM
its realistic to think either could come out next year even tho i thnk they will both stay all 4 years. which one would u rather have on ur nfl team? while tebow has had the more successful college career thus far, most say stafford projects as a better pro.

what do u guys think?

HurriPhin
05-27-2008, 06:09 AM
Stafford. Only b/c Tebow will not pursue an NFL career. Seriously. Tim is my neighbor here in G-ville and he talks of doing missionary work along with his parents when he is done with his college education. He knows he will be walking away from a millions in the NFL, but $$$ doesn't fuel his desire. Actually, he even drives around a beater vehicle and a lil' scooter. He's a true stand up guy, a one of a kind character and I wish him the best, it just won't be on an NFL field.

XXXSURTAINXXX
05-27-2008, 08:27 AM
Anything out of the UGA is better.

shanem40
05-27-2008, 10:30 AM
Stafford. Only b/c Tebow will not pursue an NFL career. Seriously. Tim is my neighbor here in G-ville and he talks of doing missionary work along with his parents when he is done with his college education. He knows he will be walking away from a millions in the NFL, but $$$ doesn't fuel his desire. Actually, he even drives around a beater vehicle and a lil' scooter. He's a true stand up guy, a one of a kind character and I wish him the best, it just won't be on an NFL field.he says that becuase he knows he wont have a real shot at the nfl anyways he will be drafted real late forced to change postions and fade away

PogiRo
05-27-2008, 10:37 AM
Stafford. Only b/c Tebow will not pursue an NFL career. Seriously. Tim is my neighbor here in G-ville and he talks of doing missionary work along with his parents when he is done with his college education. He knows he will be walking away from a millions in the NFL, but $$$ doesn't fuel his desire. Actually, he even drives around a beater vehicle and a lil' scooter. He's a true stand up guy, a one of a kind character and I wish him the best, it just won't be on an NFL field.

Dang, that's crazy. I can't quite say I'd be surprised if this were to happen, I'd be a little surprised, but nothing compared to the normal star college player. I see all these special stories done on him, and the kind of guy that is portrayed seems almost too good to be true, but I've never come away from an interview of him and thought he's anything but 100% genuine in what he says. But goodness, I hope he can squeeze out a couple million from football, heh.

Avigatorx
05-27-2008, 10:58 AM
Stafford. Only b/c Tebow will not pursue an NFL career. Seriously. Tim is my neighbor here in G-ville and he talks of doing missionary work along with his parents when he is done with his college education. He knows he will be walking away from a millions in the NFL, but $$$ doesn't fuel his desire. Actually, he even drives around a beater vehicle and a lil' scooter. He's a true stand up guy, a one of a kind character and I wish him the best, it just won't be on an NFL field.


He could do ALOT more for charity or whatever cause he supports as an NFL QB than he could ever do in a traditional missionary capacity.

BobDole
05-27-2008, 11:14 AM
tebow. no question. stafford will be money though.

SamTodd
05-27-2008, 01:03 PM
Stafford is a Pro QB coached by a great coach who has coached good qb's before stafford. Tebow is a beefed up eric crouch with a stronger arm. highly doubt he will be a suscessfull QB at the next level. He won't be asked to play to his strengths (spread offense) in the NFL and if they do, He won't last agaisnt the speed and power of nfl defenders... He couldnt do it verse georgia this year(VERY FAST defense).

mexicandolfan
05-27-2008, 01:29 PM
I really think both are going to be good:up: but neither would be great IŽll give a slight advantage to Tebow. Well thats my opinion

HurriPhin
05-28-2008, 02:24 AM
He could do ALOT more for charity or whatever cause he supports as an NFL QB than he could ever do in a traditional missionary capacity.

??? Although of the subject, please explain how he would find more time for missionary/charity causes while participating in a full-time NFL program which only allows 3 months of off-season.

CedarPhin
05-28-2008, 02:32 AM
Chad Henne

In all seriousness, I think if I had to take a QB, and I had a high pick...I'd probably go with Stafford. Tebow is a good athlete, but I don't think he'd ever amount to much as an NFL QB...probably a poor man's Alex Smith.

Stafford has the tools to be a great NFL QB, more of a pro-style offense QB.

So I'd take Stafford over Tebow.

CedarPhin
05-28-2008, 02:33 AM
??? Please explain how he would find more time for missionary/charity causes while participating in an NFL program which only allows 3 months of off-season.

$$$$$

HurriPhin
05-28-2008, 02:46 AM
$$$$$

Oh, of course, the answer to everything. :rolleyes2:

There's a bigger picture here gentlemen.

CedarPhin
05-28-2008, 02:50 AM
He'd be able to give more money to more charities and causes than what he'd be able to contribute without the $$$$$.

Money cures all ills.

HurriPhin
05-28-2008, 03:10 AM
He'd be able to give more money to more charities and causes than what he'd be able to contribute without the $$$$$.

Money cures all ills.

It's a Money v.s. Time argument. Tebow's parents run an orphinage in the Philippines and most children would rather have time spent with them over money spent on them. The old '74 folk song Cats in the Cradle also comes to mind for me here.

emeraldfin
05-28-2008, 06:34 AM
It's a Money v.s. Time argument. Tebow's parents run an orphinage in the Philippines and most children would rather have time spent with them over money spent on them. The old '74 folk song Cats in the Cradle also comes to mind for me here.

Dude did you not see the contract Matt Ryan got this year? If Tebow was to declare next year fot the draft, he gets at least the same amount or more than likely more money than Ryan. Now to me he would be unbelieveably stupid not to take a contract like that.

He could do anything he wants with that money, he could even open up his own orphange. All he has to do is play football till he's 30, retire and then devote his life to helping needy children

Sure money is'nt everything, but its damn near close to it.

HurriPhin
05-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Dude did you not see the contract Matt Ryan got this year? If Tebow was to declare next year fot the draft, he gets at least the same amount or more than likely more money than Ryan. Now to me he would be unbelieveably stupid not to take a contract like that.

He could do anything he wants with that money, he could even open up his own orphange. All he has to do is play football till he's 30, retire and then devote his life to helping needy children

Sure money is'nt everything, but its damn near close to it.

First off Tebow would not be a top 5 pick. Although he is a phenomenal athlete, I don't believe his "QB" skills & mechanics would translate well to the NFL. That being said, he would not receive anywhere near the contract M. Ryan did. Also, you make it sound so easy to play football into your 30's. There are a plethora of players who won't even make it 2-3 years after being drafted, let alone 8-10.

Avigatorx
05-28-2008, 02:29 PM
??? Although of the subject, please explain how he would find more time for missionary/charity causes while participating in a full-time NFL program which only allows 3 months of off-season.


Part of this reason has been explained by other posters, that with an NFL salary he will be in a better position to donate cash, however....

As a public figure, he will be in the spotlight and be more able to raise awareness of the issues he supports via the newsmedia, advertisements, fundraisers, or endorsements.

He will be able to accomplish much more for the orphans if he becomes an NFL QB. Worst comes to worst, things dont work out for him in the NFL (which I HIGHLY doubt) and he does missionary work full time.

Think about it....

Do you really care which presidential candidate Oprah Winfrey endorses?

Do you think if she wasnt rich and famous that ANYONE would care?

Do you even think shes qualified to offer her opinions?

Lets face it, the more famous a person is, the more influence they have and the more they can accomplish for a certain cause.

If Tebow stays healthy and continues on to have a successful NFL career he can accomplish MUCH more for the Phillipino children than he will ever do by skipping the NFL and moving straight into full time missionary work.

As religous as Tebow and his family are, he knows that God gave him a gift, and he gave it to him for a reason. Tim Tebow isnt going to let it go to waste when he can use it to help a worthy cause.

At least thats my take on it.

andysanchelima
05-28-2008, 02:40 PM
pro - stafford

with the amount of money he can make in the NFL he can hire thousands of people to help and use his star status to shine light on injustice and get people to help so tebow will do more good by playing ball

BennyVW
05-28-2008, 03:34 PM
Tebow will be harder to mold into the pro-game, but if it was done properly he could be very good. A stand up guy, who excells at everything he does, and is one of the most natural leaders i have ever seen. He has no baggage, and his skill set is one of a kind.

FinGator
05-28-2008, 04:21 PM
How is Tebow any different than Vince Young? So his skills may not translate into the NFL, but then why was he the best QB this past season? He has to be doing something right. For Vince Young and Michael Vick to go, why not Tebow?

zach8111
05-28-2008, 06:20 PM
well i REALLY doubt that we will draft ANOTHER first day QB but for the sake of argument, i would say stafford will have the better NFL career. the type of play tebow is, is REALLY HARD to project into the NFL

zach8111
05-28-2008, 06:21 PM
How is Tebow any different than Vince Young? So his skills may not translate into the NFL, but then why was he the best QB this past season? He has to be doing something right. For Vince Young and Michael Vick to go, why not Tebow?

college style football and pro style football is WAY different.

AZfinfan
05-28-2008, 06:28 PM
very, very few have what T. Tebow has....He is something special and it would be very suprising to me if he couldn't get it done in the NFL. He is a very intelligent football player. I hate when people watch him and say that he is one dimensional etc. The guy gets it done in many ways. He will learn to be a pro quarterback. He is just a special athlete and a fantastic leader.

LouisOliver25
05-28-2008, 07:56 PM
He could donate MILLIONS and fund the charity for years and relieve the financial stress that goes along with missionary work. He could do more with his pocket than actually being there. Besides, how much time is he spending there now?

LouisOliver25
05-28-2008, 08:05 PM
Last time I checked Tebow had the 2nd highest passer rating last year and was more accurate than Stafford. His down the field accuracy was incredible. He wasn't throwing short dumpy passes. Stafford is great as well. Tebow wasn't out running people with speed like Vick or Young either. He was used for short yardage situations simply because Florida didn't have a tough back who could hang on to the ball. I'm sure Florida didn't want to use him in that way and would've rather seen a RB get those carries. I think both will be debated for years to come. I think any team would be fine to have either of them personally.

Wwwhat
05-28-2008, 08:18 PM
Chad Henne

In all seriousness, I think if I had to take a QB, and I had a high pick...I'd probably go with Stafford. Tebow is a good athlete, but I don't think he'd ever amount to much as an NFL QB...probably a poor man's Alex Smith.

Stafford has the tools to be a great NFL QB, more of a pro-style offense QB.

So I'd take Stafford over Tebow.
There can't be such a thing as a poor man's Alex Smith...

HurriPhin
05-29-2008, 01:23 AM
Part of this reason has been explained by other posters, that with an NFL salary he will be in a better position to donate cash, however....

As a public figure, he will be in the spotlight and be more able to raise awareness of the issues he supports via the newsmedia, advertisements, fundraisers, or endorsements.

He will be able to accomplish much more for the orphans if he becomes an NFL QB. Worst comes to worst, things dont work out for him in the NFL (which I HIGHLY doubt) and he does missionary work full time.

Think about it....

Do you really care which presidential candidate Oprah Winfrey endorses?

Do you think if she wasnt rich and famous that ANYONE would care?

Do you even think shes qualified to offer her opinions?

Lets face it, the more famous a person is, the more influence they have and the more they can accomplish for a certain cause.

If Tebow stays healthy and continues on to have a successful NFL career he can accomplish MUCH more for the Phillipino children than he will ever do by skipping the NFL and moving straight into full time missionary work.

As religous as Tebow and his family are, he knows that God gave him a gift, and he gave it to him for a reason. Tim Tebow isnt going to let it go to waste when he can use it to help a worthy cause.

At least thats my take on it.

Thank you for your post & rebuttal. It's not many times that you get an intelligent response of someone's opposing opinion. I don't claim to be Tebow's sidekick, nor do we hang out so to speak, but he is my neighbor and we have had discussions about football, life after football, etc., on numerous occasions. Your point is most certainly valid and should be an interesting topic next time we talk. Again, thanks.

CANDolphan
05-29-2008, 01:31 AM
People who don't watch Tebow play are the ones saying he just runs and will be a full back. He will be at UF for 4 years and then he will be going pro. He's got great arm strength, he's a hell of a leader, he has good accuracy on the deep ball, and he's extremely hard to bring down ( think Vince Young like )

If he keeps working on his passing game like he did last year, he'll be a hell of a passer. People just love to hate on Tim Tebow. Alex Smith was a #1 overall pick in the NFL Draft, and Tebow is already a better prospect than he was.

HurriPhin
05-29-2008, 01:34 AM
He could donate MILLIONS and fund the charity for years and relieve the financial stress that goes along with missionary work. He could do more with his pocket than actually being there. Besides, how much time is he spending there now?

Quite a bit actually. He has been out of town since mid April, a couple of days after Florida's orange & blue spring game, & is not expected back until late July b/c the Gators begin their fall practice on Aug. 5th.

Lazy1
05-29-2008, 01:47 AM
Chad Henne

In all seriousness, I think if I had to take a QB, and I had a high pick...I'd probably go with Stafford. Tebow is a good athlete, but I don't think he'd ever amount to much as an NFL QB...probably a poor man's Alex Smith.

Stafford has the tools to be a great NFL QB, more of a pro-style offense QB.

So I'd take Stafford over Tebow.

LOL tebow a poor mans alex smith, more like alex smith is a poor mans Tim Tebow. At Utah meyer couldnt recruit like he can at florida so he settled for the "alex smith's" of the world and developed them.

Tebow won't come out after his junior year and he will develop his game and will be nfl ready after his senior year. One thing you can take to the bank is tebow has probably the best offensive coaching staff in the nation including offensive coord/qb coach dan mullen who worked wonders for tebow in 1 offseason changing his throwing motion allowing him to have a much quicker release and be more accurate.

Tebow is not getting enough credit for his abilities by alot of people, sure he won't be able to run over nfl linebackers like he does in college but he is still a very strong guy with running ability and the guy can throw alot better than people give him credit for, hes got a great arm and his accuracy is good and this part of his game will develop as he goes along.

Avigatorx
05-29-2008, 07:26 PM
Thank you for your post & rebuttal. It's not many times that you get an intelligent response of someone's opposing opinion. I don't claim to be Tebow's sidekick, nor do we hang out so to speak, but he is my neighbor and we have had discussions about football, life after football, etc., on numerous occasions. Your point is most certainly valid and should be an interesting topic next time we talk. Again, thanks.


Any time friend:)

It isn't often that an athlete comes around that can be a role-model for young kids these days. At least one with his head screwed on straight.

My boys look up to him as he looked up to Danny Wuerffel. Perhaps I am being selfish in hoping he chooses the NFL (After finishing school of course:)), but I think he is exactly the kind of kid the NFL needs nowadays.

Lemme know what he thinks of it next time you meet:)

Wishfishin
06-02-2008, 08:04 PM
I see both QB's being successful in the NFL. Tebow reminds me ALOT of Kenny Stabler, great vision, strength, and scrambling ability. Stafford is a traditional pocket passer with a cannon hanging from his right shoulder. His weakness is his decision making but he will continue to mature under Richt's tutelage.

sceeto
06-03-2008, 01:07 AM
It's a Money v.s. Time argument. Tebow's parents run an orphinage in the Philippines and most children would rather have time spent with them over money spent on them. The old '74 folk song Cats in the Cradle also comes to mind for me here.
No, I'm pretty sure they would want medicine, shoes, regular healthy hot meals, books, education, etc, rather than sitting around and conversing with Tim Tebow. Unfortunately, those things can only be helped with money. His parents are there for the time and attention they may need and Tim will be there for the financing....sounds like a smart plan. JMHO.:up:

CANDolphan
06-03-2008, 02:38 AM
If Tebow goes pro you can guarantee the dude will probably give up 75% of his signing bonus to charity.

RonMexico7
06-03-2008, 05:49 AM
No, I'm pretty sure they would want medicine, shoes, regular healthy hot meals, books, education, etc, rather than sitting around and conversing with Tim Tebow. Unfortunately, those things can only be helped with money. His parents are there for the time and attention they may need and Tim will be there for the financing....sounds like a smart plan. JMHO.:up:


:sidelol:


my eyes actually watered reading that bit!!:lol:

phintim
06-03-2008, 11:00 AM
Tebow or Stafford makes no difference the QB for next year is already on the team which one who knows

HurriPhin
06-03-2008, 01:19 PM
No, I'm pretty sure they would want medicine, shoes, regular healthy hot meals, books, education, etc, rather than sitting around and conversing with Tim Tebow. Unfortunately, those things can only be helped with money. His parents are there for the time and attention they may need and Tim will be there for the financing....sounds like a smart plan. JMHO.:up:

Way to be a smart ssa! I'm just saying, Tebow currently has other priorities after college besides the NFL and many institutions already give charitable contributions to their (him & his parents) causes.

sceeto
06-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Way to be a smart ssa! I'm just saying, Tebow currently has other priorities after college besides the NFL and many institutions already give charitable contributions to their (him & his parents) causes.
O.K...I bet those "charitable contributions" won't compare to what Tebow could do if drafted top 3 in the NFL draft. Even so, it would just be that much extra for them. With that they could really make some major accomplishments for their charities.:up:

Miamifin23
06-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Neither at this point. 1... We have 2 young qb's on the roster that based on where they were picked and projected, at least 1 should be able to step in and do a good job for us and possibly lead this team for some years to come. Also, unless a guy like Stafford shows he's a top flight prospect and a can't pass up on type QB, I don't think you can pick a QB in the top 5 of the draft anymore, Ryan got 6 years and 72 million dollars at pick 3 this year. The contract will cripple any team that gets another Alex Smith or Ryan Leaf.

QrtBck13
06-04-2008, 01:00 AM
Tebow doesn't really have a position. I don't think his arm is good enough to play QB. He's Big and Hits the hole hard but would he have a 2nd gear to bust into the secondary if he played RB? Can he catch the Ball? Can he tackle...maybe he can play LB? These are all important questions. He's a Big, Strong, Athlete.

CANDolphan
06-05-2008, 03:56 PM
Tebow doesn't really have a position. I don't think his arm is good enough to play QB. He's Big and Hits the hole hard but would he have a 2nd gear to bust into the secondary if he played RB? Can he catch the Ball? Can he tackle...maybe he can play LB? These are all important questions. He's a Big, Strong, Athlete.

He has the arm strength, and he's working on his mechanics. He's improved 200% since last year, and if he keeps improving, he will be NFL ready. To call him a running back or linebacker is absolutely ridiculous

clevelandm13
06-07-2008, 08:32 AM
Stafford. Only b/c Tebow will not pursue an NFL career. Seriously. Tim is my neighbor here in G-ville and he talks of doing missionary work along with his parents when he is done with his college education. He knows he will be walking away from a millions in the NFL, but $$$ doesn't fuel his desire. Actually, he even drives around a beater vehicle and a lil' scooter. He's a true stand up guy, a one of a kind character and I wish him the best, it just won't be on an NFL field.

I would love to watch him in the NFL, but Money doesn't mean anything if your not happy and doing what you feel you need to do.

Captain Lou
06-17-2008, 07:33 PM
Stafford is a Pro QB coached by a great coach who has coached good qb's before stafford. Tebow is a beefed up eric crouch with a stronger arm. highly doubt he will be a suscessfull QB at the next level. He won't be asked to play to his strengths (spread offense) in the NFL and if they do, He won't last agaisnt the speed and power of nfl defenders... He couldnt do it verse georgia this year(VERY FAST defense).

You also failed to mention he was playing injured that game! He's not a beefed up up Eric Crouch. If anything he is an Alex Smith 2.0!

ZachThomas76
07-18-2008, 12:51 PM
??? Although of the subject, please explain how he would find more time for missionary/charity causes while participating in a full-time NFL program which only allows 3 months of off-season.

Why couldnt he pursue his missionary work after his football career was over? He would still be mid 30's if he had a long career, and then would have money that would make an actual difference. I dont think Tebows style will translate well to the NFL. The guy who called him a "beefed up Eric Crouch" hit it on the head IMO. The spread offense doesnt help his transition either. Great college qb, but I dont think it goes any farther than that.

BobDole
07-18-2008, 01:29 PM
tebow completed 67% of his passes for 3286 yards and ran for another 900.

stafford completed 56% of his passes for 2523 yards and ran for negative 18 yards.

as of right now, this question is a joke. but i saw glimpses from stafford last year so next year this might be a real question. but not yet.

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-18-2008, 03:27 PM
Tebow also threw easier passes and had better recievers in Harvin and Caldwell. Stafford threw NFL passes developed by the great BoBo!

Stafford will be a NFL ready QB come time he graduates. Miami will not be able to draft him because he will be the #1 overall pick when ever he comes out.

Man aint nothing like them DAWGz!!!!!

ZachThomas76
07-18-2008, 03:57 PM
Stafford has all the physical tools, no doubting that. But so did Ryan Leaf, among others. Its going to come down to whats between his ears.

BobDole
07-21-2008, 01:56 PM
Tebow also threw easier passes and had better recievers in Harvin and Caldwell. Stafford threw NFL passes developed by the great BoBo!

Stafford will be a NFL ready QB come time he graduates. Miami will not be able to draft him because he will be the #1 overall pick when ever he comes out.

Man aint nothing like them DAWGz!!!!!


tebow threw the 20 plus yard passes much better too. at this point, he is the better QB in every way. we'll see how next season goes for stafford and the dawgs. i mean, we have to let you guys win once every decade or so. :d-day:

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-22-2008, 07:24 AM
tebow threw the 20 plus yard passes much better too. at this point, he is the better QB in every way. we'll see how next season goes for stafford and the dawgs. i mean, we have to let you guys win once every decade or so. :d-day:


LOL, You know as well as everyone else them Dawgz are going to come out biting this year....Don't stress Stafford....stress the running game.

chillwill3000
07-22-2008, 08:56 AM
Stafford FTW!

BobDole
07-22-2008, 09:22 AM
LOL, You know as well as everyone else them Dawgz are going to come out biting this year....Don't stress Stafford....stress the running game.


dem gators bite too. SEC is gonna be no joke this year. let the best team win.

hooshoops
07-22-2008, 09:35 AM
stafford is the better pro qb prospect

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-25-2008, 08:19 AM
stafford is the better pro qb prospect


And you know this mannnnn.

Barring injuries to the great QB from the Great UGA Bulldogs. I expect Knoshown Marino and Matthew Stafford to be 1 and 2 in the Heisman race.

2008

UGA 42 UF 10

Stafford 35 attempts, 29 completions for 345 yards 3 TD's
Moreno 25 rushes for 215 yards 2 TD's
Defense scores a TD

Man I cant wait!

How bout dem Dawgs??

BobDole
07-25-2008, 10:32 AM
And you know this mannnnn.

Barring injuries to the great QB from the Great UGA Bulldogs. I expect Knoshown Marino and Matthew Stafford to be 1 and 2 in the Heisman race.

2008

UGA 42 UF 10

Stafford 35 attempts, 29 completions for 345 yards 3 TD's
Moreno 25 rushes for 215 yards 2 TD's
Defense scores a TD

Man I cant wait!

How bout dem Dawgs??


we're only gonna score ten points on you guys next year? and you're gonna put up 40 on us again?

back to reality. UF 38 UGA 21

tebow 21 of 28 for 287 yards. 10 rushes for 61 yards. 3 total TDs.
moody 11 rushes for 78 yards. 1 TD.
harvin 8 catches for 115 yards. 6 rushes for 59 yards. 2 TD.

we do have these credit things now. would you like to make it interesting?

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-25-2008, 12:06 PM
we're only gonna score ten points on you guys next year? and you're gonna put up 40 on us again?

back to reality. UF 38 UGA 21

tebow 21 of 28 for 287 yards. 10 rushes for 61 yards. 3 total TDs.
moody 11 rushes for 78 yards. 1 TD.
harvin 8 catches for 115 yards. 6 rushes for 59 yards. 2 TD.

we do have these credit things now. would you like to make it interesting?


Man yes, Ill even give you 6 points. The Dawgs will be blowing people out this year.

WVDolphan
07-25-2008, 11:24 PM
First off Tebow would not be a top 5 pick. Although he is a phenomenal athlete, I don't believe his "QB" skills & mechanics would translate well to the NFL. That being said, he would not receive anywhere near the contract M. Ryan did. Also, you make it sound so easy to play football into your 30's. There are a plethora of players who won't even make it 2-3 years after being drafted, let alone 8-10.

Which goes exactly back to the point that the dude made who said that Tebow only says all that stuff about getting involved in terms of time because he knows he wont play in the league. Get real man. If he wants to help people(and I dont doubt he does, the guy seems like a great person) then you take big money and help people that way. Being a football player would allow you more time than most jobs to spend overseas reading to orphan kids too. And it would deliver the money needed to do great things as well in that area. So dont even come with all that nonsense that he would be able to do more for poor kids overseas without football.

HurriPhin
07-26-2008, 01:40 AM
Which goes exactly back to the point that the dude made who said that Tebow only says all that stuff about getting involved in terms of time because he knows he wont play in the league. Get real man. If he wants to help people(and I dont doubt he does, the guy seems like a great person) then you take big money and help people that way. Being a football player would allow you more time than most jobs to spend overseas reading to orphan kids too. And it would deliver the money needed to do great things as well in that area. So dont even come with all that nonsense that he would be able to do more for poor kids overseas without football.

The only non-sense here is you not paying attention.

Read the 2nd post in this thread. I'm not trying to tell you or ask you what we think is the best possible situation for Tebow's career. I'm telling you what HE SAID. It's not that difficult. I have talked face to face with the young man and I'm simply posting what he has told me. There's no debate here buddy.

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-26-2008, 10:43 AM
The only non-sense here is you not paying attention.

Read the 2nd post in this thread. I'm not trying to tell you or ask you what we think is the best possible situation for Tebow's career. I'm telling you what HE SAID. It's not that difficult. I have talked face to face with the young man and I'm simply posting what he has told me. There's no debate here buddy.

I feel that. Tebow is a great kid.....however, Stafford is a great QB and will translate into a great NFL QB and will be better than Tebow if he does or does not go into the NFL.

Just like Stafford was ranked #1 out of high school with Tebow ranked #2.

UGA!!!!! Dooley Dawgs are back!!!!

sceeto
07-26-2008, 11:18 PM
The only non-sense here is you not paying attention.

Read the 2nd post in this thread. I'm not trying to tell you or ask you what we think is the best possible situation for Tebow's career. I'm telling you what HE SAID. It's not that difficult. I have talked face to face with the young man and I'm simply posting what he has told me. There's no debate here buddy.


How about reading the 1st. or the 3rd. or whatever..http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif..someone is starting to change their tune..I love it....http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gifhttp://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif ...just messin' my fellow finfan!

loed
07-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Tim Tebow would clearly be my first choice. You can look all you want at mechanics, etc, but this guy is a leader, an athlete, is big enough for the position, and simply has the intangibles to change the outcome of a game by himself. Whoever mentioned Stabler I think had the best comparison. Should be fun watching this year

BobDole
07-27-2008, 04:07 PM
Man yes, Ill even give you 6 points. The Dawgs will be blowing people out this year.


done and done. don't know how the credits work, but put me down for how ever many you would like to lose. :wink:

i won't take the points. no way i'm gonna need them. i'll go straight up - you do know we wil be favored in this game, right? :woot:

let me know how much you would like to bet. cheers brother. :beer1:

hooshoops
07-28-2008, 10:25 AM
as long as tebow continues to run to contact his career as an nfl qb will be very short lived imo. you just can't do that in the pros and survive.

problem is so much of tebows game is built around power and the drop the head and bull forward mentality. it works perfect for the college game but makes for a short career in the pros.

great college qb one of the best i've ever seen. i don't see it translating all that well to the nfl.

just my take

ZachThomas76
07-28-2008, 01:14 PM
he's a rocked up version of Eric Crouch. book it.

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-28-2008, 01:17 PM
You you both would take Stafford

ZachThomas76
07-28-2008, 01:30 PM
I think Stafford has all the tools to develop into an excellent pro qb. Whether he does or not remains to be seen. Tebow is a product of the spread system, and while hes a great athlete playing qb, I dont think hes a great qb. Name me one spread or spread option qb who has done well in the NFL?

hooshoops
07-28-2008, 02:00 PM
You you both would take Stafford

yes we would

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-28-2008, 02:19 PM
I think Stafford has all the tools to develop into an excellent pro qb. Whether he does or not remains to be seen. Tebow is a product of the spread system, and while hes a great athlete playing qb, I dont think hes a great qb. Name me one spread or spread option qb who has done well in the NFL?

That's exactly my point. So who do you guys have in he FL vs GA game? Keep in mind how powerful GA's defense is against those so-called spread offenses......BOBDOLE......Remember Hawaii? lol

ZachThomas76
07-28-2008, 02:22 PM
That's exactly my point. So who do you guys have in he FL vs GA game? Keep in mind how powerful GA's defense is against those so-called spread offenses......BOBDOLE......Remember Hawaii? lol
I think its not going to be about Stafford or Gaybow in that game. Moreno runs all over the UF defense to the tune of 150+.

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-28-2008, 02:25 PM
I think its not going to be about Stafford or Gaybow in that game. Moreno runs all over the UF defense to the tune of 150+.


Man I like you!!!! You know your football. Also look for Caleb King to stickem for about 100 as well.

ZachThomas76
07-28-2008, 02:31 PM
Man I like you!!!! You know your football. Also look for Caleb King to stickem for about 100 as well.

I dont know what UF brought in this off season on D, but last I saw them, Jake Long was ***** slapping Derrick Harvey all day, and Chad Henne was carving their secondary up like it was nothing. Oh, and Mike Hart was running all over them. Unless UF has some D, it will be more of the same against Georgia I suspect. I cant wait for college ball to get going. Hey Surtain, have you ever seen Jake Locker play? QB up here for the Huskies. Hes like a right handed version of Tebow, but not as big, and much quicker. He runs a 4.4 40. Definitely needs work as a qb, but I could see him converted to wr at the next level. He played rb in HS I believe. Not sure if hes got any YouTube vids yet. Very raw, only a Soph this year I believe.

ZachThomas76
07-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Man I like you!!!! You know your football. Also look for Caleb King to stickem for about 100 as well.

Shhhhh. Dont tell anyone. I like to just get by with my ravishing looks. :unsure:

TedSlimmJr
07-28-2008, 04:35 PM
Stafford is the better NFL QB prospect. His skills simply translate better to the next level.

popularwar
07-28-2008, 08:36 PM
No spread offense in the pro's.

Advantage Stafford.

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-29-2008, 07:25 AM
No spread offense in the pro's.

Advantage Stafford.

You always had credibility. That's why I'm not surprised at that very intelligent statement.

Man, it's been a long time since a UGA QB was worth something. It's going to be a great year. Miami Dolphins, Georgia Bulldogs. I'm in football paradise fellas.

BobDole
07-29-2008, 03:43 PM
That's exactly my point. So who do you guys have in he FL vs GA game? Keep in mind how powerful GA's defense is against those so-called spread offenses......BOBDOLE......Remember Hawaii? lol


come on man - where's the bet? you guys get so cocky the year after you beat us. good thing that's only about once a decade. :woot:

and you're comparing florida to hawaii? :sidelol: you might as well compare my little brother's pop warner team to the fins. not so much.

i am totally down for a friendly wager involving not real money. will be waiting for the response.

TedSlimmJr
07-29-2008, 03:55 PM
tebow completed 67% of his passes for 3286 yards and ran for another 900.

stafford completed 56% of his passes for 2523 yards and ran for negative 18 yards.

as of right now, this question is a joke. but i saw glimpses from stafford last year so next year this might be a real question. but not yet.

How many yards and TD's did Andre Ware throw for? David Klingler? Alex Smith? Timmy Chang? Colt Brennan?

How many yards and TD's did Brett Favre throw for in college? Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? Dan Marino? Steve McNair? Troy Aikman?

If college stats were the determining factor in pro potential (which they're obviously not) Kliff Kingsbury would be a pro bowler and Donavan McNabb would be selling furniture.

Tebow is a wonderful college football player and perfect fit for Urban Meyer's system...but Stafford has the NFL qualities that GM's look for...other than coming from a pro style offense...

I do agree with you on one thing though...Is this really a question?

BobDole
07-29-2008, 04:36 PM
How many yards and TD's did Andre Ware throw for? David Klingler? Alex Smith? Timmy Chang? Colt Brennan?

How many yards and TD's did Brett Favre throw for in college? Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? Dan Marino? Steve McNair? Troy Aikman?

If college stats were the determining factor in pro potential (which they're obviously not) Kliff Kingsbury would be a pro bowler and Donavan McNabb would be selling furniture.

Tebow is a wonderful college football player and perfect fit for Urban Meyer's system...but Stafford has the NFL qualities that GM's look for...other than coming from a pro style offense...

I do agree with you on one thing though...Is this really a question?


i hear ya. we will see. i just can't pigeonhole tebow as a 'system quarterback' because i have yet to find the flaws in his game that the typical system qb's have. what's the knock? seriously? people just keep saying spread offense, system qb, blah, blah, blah... i have yet to see an actual knock on his game that is even worth coming back with a retort. it is playeddddddd.

not saying stafford is bad. he is very good - but not yet a tim tebow. maybe someday.

gators defense won't be all freshman and sophomores next year. and the offense doesn't even need to be discussed - especially with the addition of moody. gonna get ugly in jacksonville next year.

TedSlimmJr
07-29-2008, 04:58 PM
i hear ya. we will see. i just can't pigeonhole tebow as a 'system quarterback' because i have yet to find the flaws in his game that the typical system qb's have. what's the knock? seriously? people just keep saying spread offense, system qb, blah, blah, blah... i have yet to see an actual knock on his game that is even worth coming back with a retort. it is playeddddddd.

not saying stafford is bad. he is very good - but not yet a tim tebow. maybe someday.

gators defense won't be all freshman and sophomores next year. and the offense doesn't even need to be discussed - especially with the addition of moody. gonna get ugly in jacksonville next year.

Here's the flaw... and why it's so difficult for QB's who play in these "gimmick" systems to make the adjustment to the NFL.They're ALWAYS in the shotgun for one..they don't take any snaps from under center (which you will be required to do in the NFL 90% of the time) therefore they have poor footwork. They don't have any experience in dropping back, hitching, reading the defense, and throwing an accurate pass on target and on time. Offenses in the NFL are all about precise timing and accuracy. You cannot underestimate the importance of this, and we haven't even discussed mechanics involving delivery (which Tebow's aren't of NFL quality at the moment) we've only discussed taking the snap!!None of these previously mentioned system QB's that were busts, were busts because their arm wasn't strong enough or because they didn't have the physical tools to succeed in the NFL...in fact...their physical tools and "stats" are what got them drafted so high in the first place.The odds of a blue chip QB prospect coming from a pro style offense in college and delivering on all his promise in the NFL are already very slim...maybe 25% or so. When you factor in a blue chip prospect that comes from an offense in college that didn't teach him the intracacies that he will need to play QB in the NFL...the odds are stacked even more against him.But don't take my word for it...take NFL histories word for it instead.

BobDole
07-29-2008, 05:22 PM
Here's the flaw... and why it's so difficult for QB's who play in these "gimmick" systems to make the adjustment to the NFL.They're ALWAYS in the shotgun for one..they don't take any snaps from under center (which you will be required to do in the NFL 90% of the time) therefore they have poor footwork. They don't have any experience in dropping back, hitching, reading the defense, and throwing an accurate pass on target and on time. Offenses in the NFL are all about precise timing and accuracy. You cannot underestimate the importance of this, and we haven't even discussed mechanics involving delivery (which Tebow's aren't of NFL quality at the moment) we've only discussed taking the snap!!None of these previously mentioned system QB's that were busts, were busts because their arm wasn't strong enough or because they didn't have the physical tools to succeed in the NFL...in fact...their physical tools and "stats" are what got them drafted so high in the first place.The odds of a blue chip QB prospect coming from a pro style offense in college and delivering on all his promise in the NFL are already very slim...maybe 25% or so. When you factor in a blue chip prospect that comes from an offense in college that didn't teach him the intracacies that he will need to play QB in the NFL...the odds are stacked even more against him.But don't take my word for it...take NFL histories word for it instead.


good post. but again, same stuff. i know with florida's qb history (you hit a parked cop car? don't even get me started dildo) and the spread offense qb history - his chances of success at the pro level are slim. historically at least. but you're not gonna tell me he doesn't have a chance because he can't take a snap. and footwork? you have seen him play, correct?

and i know why qb's from the spread system don't translate well to the nfl. while that was excellent info - from someone that knows their shyte - it was all safe and very matter of fact. the only thing you really touched on was mechanics, because his accuracy 'problems' should have been quashed after his umpteenth deep pass hit harvin (damn near the fastest player in college) in stride.

let's take it to the next level. what about tebow's mechanics don't you like?

TedSlimmJr
07-29-2008, 05:58 PM
good post. but again, same stuff. i know with florida's qb history (you hit a parked cop car? don't even get me started dildo) and the spread offense qb history - his chances of success at the pro level are slim. historically at least. but you're not gonna tell me he doesn't have a chance because he can't take a snap. and footwork? you have seen him play, correct?

and i know why qb's from the spread system don't translate well to the nfl. while that was excellent info - from someone that knows their shyte - it was all safe and very matter of fact. the only thing you really touched on was mechanics, because his accuracy 'problems' should have been quashed after his umpteenth deep pass hit harvin (damn near the fastest player in college) in stride.

let's take it to the next level. what about tebow's mechanics don't you like?

So if you know all this and know that QB's that come from these systems don't translate well to the NFL, you only argue against your own knowledge because you're a Gator fan?

I never said Tebow didn't have a chance, I said Stafford is the better NFL QB prospect. And yes, I see everybody play...

Your first response to my post seemed to insinuate that the outcome of the Fla/Georgia game was going to have some impact on their futures in the NFL or something...lol.

I'm neither a Gator or Bulldog fan, I'm a college football fan, I have no bias in that respect.

Hitting Harvin in stride isn't what translates to the NFL...Chris Leak could hit Harvin in stride too...and Caldwell...not hard to do when you're wide open.

Tebow has to shore up the quirk in his delivery, but college coaching isn't going to do that....they don't tinker with the prospects mechanics like they will at the NFL level because of the fear it will set the team back while he makes the adjustments.

Tebow's release is low (as most college QB's are) but he also has the same quirk that Kyle Boller had, which is he almost "pushes" the ball out of his hand, almost like a shotput, just to give you a visual, but not nearly that dramatic, of course.

These gimmick systems that have come along are exactly what has ruined QB prospects nowadays. You can't compare Tebow to past Florida QB's like Palmer, Weurffel, Grossman, etc...these were Spurrier QB's...and a totally different system..although still a system nonetheless. Very similar to Jeff Tedfords system at Cal (Boller, Rodgers, Longshore, etc.)

Tebow's best comparison is obviously Alex Smith, although Smith's throwing mechanics were much cleaner and more crisp versus Tebow's.

If Tebow was running Mark Richt's offense at Georgia, he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes...that I can guarantee you. These systems are designed to put up these gaudy stats one QB after another, after another, after another, after....

hooshoops
07-29-2008, 08:12 PM
hey bob, i see you've met my friend tedslimmjr.

BobDole
07-30-2008, 11:35 AM
hey bob, i see you've met my friend tedslimmjr.

:err:

BobDole
07-30-2008, 11:56 AM
So if you know all this and know that QB's that come from these systems don't translate well to the NFL, you only argue against your own knowledge because you're a Gator fan?

I never said Tebow didn't have a chance, I said Stafford is the better NFL QB prospect. And yes, I see everybody play...

Your first response to my post seemed to insinuate that the outcome of the Fla/Georgia game was going to have some impact on their futures in the NFL or something...lol.

I'm neither a Gator or Bulldog fan, I'm a college football fan, I have no bias in that respect.

Hitting Harvin in stride isn't what translates to the NFL...Chris Leak could hit Harvin in stride too...and Caldwell...not hard to do when you're wide open.

Tebow has to shore up the quirk in his delivery, but college coaching isn't going to do that....they don't tinker with the prospects mechanics like they will at the NFL level because of the fear it will set the team back while he makes the adjustments.

Tebow's release is low (as most college QB's are) but he also has the same quirk that Kyle Boller had, which is he almost "pushes" the ball out of his hand, almost like a shotput, just to give you a visual, but not nearly that dramatic, of course.

These gimmick systems that have come along are exactly what has ruined QB prospects nowadays. You can't compare Tebow to past Florida QB's like Palmer, Weurffel, Grossman, etc...these were Spurrier QB's...and a totally different system..although still a system nonetheless. Very similar to Jeff Tedfords system at Cal (Boller, Rodgers, Longshore, etc.)

Tebow's best comparison is obviously Alex Smith, although Smith's throwing mechanics were much cleaner and more crisp versus Tebow's.

If Tebow was running Mark Richt's offense at Georgia, he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes...that I can guarantee you. These systems are designed to put up these gaudy stats one QB after another, after another, after another, after....

i have heard the 'pushing' the ball knock on tebow and that is valid. but he can throw the ball a mile - and being a sophomore - there is definitely time. his mechanincs have improved leaps and bounds in the last two years and will continue to do so until he leaves UF.

and i'm not even acting like this is for real - the better prospect at this point? okay.

the main reason i think he is getting flack is because he is coming from a spread offense and because he is a florida gator. historically, those two facts don't exactly lead to HOF numbers in the nfl. but i'm not gonna say he's screwed because of those two facts alone. i need more.

stafford does not have the leadership, confidence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy ( yeah, i said it :D), pocket presence (said it again), or inherent ability to take over a football game that tebow has. not YET. that is why this is so ridiculous. so if i needed a qb right this second to lead my pro team onto the field, tebow would be the choice. right now. which was the question - i think. who would pick stafford over tebow right now based on 'potential'? come on. in a few years, who knows.

and i didn't mean to nor did i insinuate that the florida/georgia game this year would in any way dictate the pro careers of either qb. if you are a fan of either team and you get a question like this you just have to. it's florida/georgia man - you know?

but that was an excellent post you responded with. keep it up my friend. :up:

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-30-2008, 03:03 PM
come on man - where's the bet? you guys get so cocky the year after you beat us. good thing that's only about once a decade. :woot:

and you're comparing florida to hawaii? :sidelol: you might as well compare my little brother's pop warner team to the fins. not so much.

i am totally down for a friendly wager involving not real money. will be waiting for the response.

Im down with a wager........but uhhh...how do we do it? Yeah we dawgs do get to smelling ourselves after a year of whooping on them gatorz. But this is a pretty good team we got this year. I truly think we can winthe national championship.

TedSlimmJr
07-30-2008, 03:57 PM
i have heard the 'pushing' the ball knock on tebow and that is valid. but he can throw the ball a mile - and being a sophomore - there is definitely time. his mechanincs have improved leaps and bounds in the last two years and will continue to do so until he leaves UF.

and i'm not even acting like this is for real - the better prospect at this point? okay.

the main reason i think he is getting flack is because he is coming from a spread offense and because he is a florida gator. historically, those two facts don't exactly lead to HOF numbers in the nfl. but i'm not gonna say he's screwed because of those two facts alone. i need more.

stafford does not have the leadership, confidence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy ( yeah, i said it :D), pocket presence (said it again), or inherent ability to take over a football game that tebow has. not YET. that is why this is so ridiculous. so if i needed a qb right this second to lead my pro team onto the field, tebow would be the choice. right now. which was the question - i think. who would pick stafford over tebow right now based on 'potential'? come on. in a few years, who knows.

and i didn't mean to nor did i insinuate that the florida/georgia game this year would in any way dictate the pro careers of either qb. if you are a fan of either team and you get a question like this you just have to. it's florida/georgia man - you know?

but that was an excellent post you responded with. keep it up my friend. :up:


I understand that Tebow has a strong arm...but that won't overcome poor footwork. If you can't take the snap from under center and drop back smooth and on time...you're strong arm will never be on display in the NFL...

Akili Smith, Jim Druckenmiller, etc. could throw the ball a mile too...lol.

Coming from the spread isn't so much a knock as it is a fact that it doesn't translate well to the NFL....and until one actually does...you really don't have a case to argue other than he's Tim Tebow and he can throw the ball really far...

As for Stafford...lol...he has the strongest arm in college football. He throws a "heavy" ball because his throwing motion is superior to that of Tebow which allows him to get his thick legs involved in the throw.

You don't have to be athletic to play QB in the NFL, in fact, it only works against you because you tend to rely on that instead of being a pocket technician. You win with prototype pocket passers (Stafford) in the NFL...not scramblers (Tebow). Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Drew Bledsoe, etc. are some of the worst athletes to ever play in the NFL. How'd they turn out? Michael Vick is the best athlete maybe to ever put on shoulder pads, yet he was ranked DEAD LAST in the league every year of his career in passer rating from inside the pocket...Vince Young is as athletic as any player you'll see play QB in the NFL...to the tune of 9TD's and 15 INT's and even thought about retirement after his rookie season because the NFL is a world different than running the spread and only having to read the defensive end.

Teams are starting to learn that they have somewhat of a blueprint to follow now reguarding QB prospects because of past teams mistakes.

Rule #1? Stay away from system QB's in the 1st round...your odds are better drafting a lesser hyped QB from a program that ran a pro style offense. GM's will absolutely factor in the system(s) that the quarterbacks come from....they have to now.

Do you know why the Heisman is a curse for QB's? It isn't because of some mysterious voodoo....it's because the Heisman is all about stats and hype...and you have to be in a system that is designed to produce such gaudy stats. A system that doesn't translate to the next level...

hooshoops
07-30-2008, 04:19 PM
:err:

lol. i just know tedslimm from someplace else and he knows his stuff.

XXXSURTAINXXX
07-30-2008, 04:40 PM
"You win with prototype pocket passers (Stafford) in the NFL."

Who happens to be the starting QB for THE University of Georgia Bulldogs. Stafford is the next Elway.

reese13
07-30-2008, 06:26 PM
stafford does not have the leadership, confidence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy ( yeah, i said it :D), pocket presence (said it again), or inherent ability to take over a football game that tebow has.

are u serious? stafford's arm strength is what made him the number 1 rated QB coming out f HS. his arm strength is why mel kiper says he will go number 1 in the draft. have u ever even seen him play? he has one f the strongest, if not the strongest, arms in the country.

ZachThomas76
07-31-2008, 02:15 PM
Until a spread or spread option qb has success in the NFL, this isnt really a debate is it? If the roles were reversed, and Stafford was the one putting up gaudy numbers in a spread, we would have the same opinion of him as some of us do of Tebow. Did anyone watch the Combine? Colt Brennan couldnt even get the 5 and 7 step drops down in practice with Mike Martz because he had never done it before. Its hard enough to be a rookie qb in the NFL, but then to have to learn things that are complete 180's to what made you successfull in college? Recipe for disaster at this point in time................

BobDole
07-31-2008, 02:24 PM
Im down with a wager........but uhhh...how do we do it? Yeah we dawgs do get to smelling ourselves after a year of whooping on them gatorz. But this is a pretty good team we got this year. I truly think we can winthe national championship.


word. i have no idea either. i'll pm a mod and see how it works. you guys will be tough this year - it should be a good game. makes the landings at jacksonville that much more fun after it's over. the SEC is going to be downright ridiculous next year. more so than usual.

i'll figure out how the credits work and i'll get back to you.

BobDole
07-31-2008, 02:29 PM
are u serious? stafford's arm strength is what made him the number 1 rated QB coming out f HS. his arm strength is why mel kiper says he will go number 1 in the draft. have u ever even seen him play? he has one f the strongest, if not the strongest, arms in the country.


i haven't read anything on him, i was just going on what i saw of him playing last year. he didn't really air the ball out alot - and the ones he did weren't exactly pretty - so i just figured he didn't have crazy arm strength. i watched most of their games and didn't see it - but i will admit i could be wrong. tebow's arm strength is ridiculous - so if stafford has him beat kudos to him.

BobDole
07-31-2008, 02:39 PM
I understand that Tebow has a strong arm...but that won't overcome poor footwork. If you can't take the snap from under center and drop back smooth and on time...you're strong arm will never be on display in the NFL...

Akili Smith, Jim Druckenmiller, etc. could throw the ball a mile too...lol.

Coming from the spread isn't so much a knock as it is a fact that it doesn't translate well to the NFL....and until one actually does...you really don't have a case to argue other than he's Tim Tebow and he can throw the ball really far...

As for Stafford...lol...he has the strongest arm in college football. He throws a "heavy" ball because his throwing motion is superior to that of Tebow which allows him to get his thick legs involved in the throw.

You don't have to be athletic to play QB in the NFL, in fact, it only works against you because you tend to rely on that instead of being a pocket technician. You win with prototype pocket passers (Stafford) in the NFL...not scramblers (Tebow). Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Drew Bledsoe, etc. are some of the worst athletes to ever play in the NFL. How'd they turn out? Michael Vick is the best athlete maybe to ever put on shoulder pads, yet he was ranked DEAD LAST in the league every year of his career in passer rating from inside the pocket...Vince Young is as athletic as any player you'll see play QB in the NFL...to the tune of 9TD's and 15 INT's and even thought about retirement after his rookie season because the NFL is a world different than running the spread and only having to read the defensive end.

Teams are starting to learn that they have somewhat of a blueprint to follow now reguarding QB prospects because of past teams mistakes.

Rule #1? Stay away from system QB's in the 1st round...your odds are better drafting a lesser hyped QB from a program that ran a pro style offense. GM's will absolutely factor in the system(s) that the quarterbacks come from....they have to now.

Do you know why the Heisman is a curse for QB's? It isn't because of some mysterious voodoo....it's because the Heisman is all about stats and hype...and you have to be in a system that is designed to produce such gaudy stats. A system that doesn't translate to the next level...


his footwork is really good and just keeps improving.

i could be wrong on this. history isn't exactly on my side. but being a gator fan and alum, there is just no way i can say a bulldog qb that just has 'potential' at this point is going to be better than a sophomore gator heisman winner.

i will always stand behind players from the fins, gators x 2, celts, heels, and yanks. call me a homer if you want, but i think i defend myself pretty well.

go gators

Avigatorx
07-31-2008, 03:30 PM
Wow, been a while since I last checked this thread, lol.

Bob, save your breath bro, these guys are haters and will find any excuse to knock a Gator. Nothing you can say will change their mind.

Time will tell, and like you said, he's got another 2 years to develop.

P.S. Gotta love the dawg fans, give em a win once in a while and they think the road to the championship runs through Georgia. (I think they will be a little surprised when they see the Gators D this year, given that we lost, what? 9 starters to the draft last year?)

And btw, Tebow wont be running as much this year, Meyer wants to save the wear and tear on him.

ZachThomas76
07-31-2008, 03:35 PM
Wow, been a while since I last checked this thread, lol.

Bob, save your breath bro, these guys are haters and will find any excuse to knock a Gator. Nothing you can say will change their mind.

Time will tell, and like you said, he's got another 2 years to develop.

P.S. Gotta love the dawg fans, give em a win once in a while and they think the road to the championship runs through Georgia. (I think they will be a little surprised when they see the Gators D this year, given that we lost, what? 9 starters to the draft last year?)

And btw, Tebow wont be running as much this year, Meyer wants to save the wear and tear on him.
im not a hater. im not a fan of Georgia or Florida. if you cant objectively look at what the spread has done to qb development (stunting it) then why try and have a logical discussion. just because you love the Gators and Tim Tebow isnt enough IMO. im sure Longhorn fans love Vince Young and Utah fans love Alex Smith. how did that work out?

HurriPhin
07-31-2008, 03:35 PM
What about tebow's mechanics don't you like?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I thought I'd chime in anyways. It's hard to compare anyone to Dan the man, but when you watch Dan's throwing motion his arm is always in an "L" position, elbow close to his side, tip of the ball pointing down field, and the release of the ball is near the ear. Tebow, on the other hand, has so much wasted movement in his throw.

Here's 3 pics to see just how bad it is:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics2.jpg (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics2.jpg)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics3.jpg

hooshoops
07-31-2008, 03:37 PM
his footwork is really good and just keeps improving.

i could be wrong on this. history isn't exactly on my side. but being a gator fan and alum, there is just no way i can say a bulldog qb that just has 'potential' at this point is going to be better than a sophomore gator heisman winner.

i will always stand behind players from the fins, gators x 2, celts, heels, and yanks. call me a homer if you want, but i think i defend myself pretty well.

go gators

lol. not much of a front runner are you. j/k

hooshoops
07-31-2008, 03:40 PM
why do people assume that because we don't think tebow will make it in the nfl at qb we're gator haters???

i just don't like the offensive system he comes from which suits his skill sets to the t and the run to contact for the pro game.

his game is contact. recipe for disaster in the pros.

BobDole
07-31-2008, 03:41 PM
lol. not much of a front runner are you. j/k


my teams are based on lpayers i liked growing up.

marino - fins

bird - celts

mattingly - yanks

gators - duh

heels - fox (i know he turned out to be a tool but i loved him in college)

TedSlimmJr
07-31-2008, 03:45 PM
his footwork is really good and just keeps improving.

i could be wrong on this. history isn't exactly on my side. but being a gator fan and alum, there is just no way i can say a bulldog qb that just has 'potential' at this point is going to be better than a sophomore gator heisman winner.

i will always stand behind players from the fins, gators x 2, celts, heels, and yanks. call me a homer if you want, but i think i defend myself pretty well.

go gators


You haven't seen his footwork from taking a snap under center, dropping back 3, 5, or 7 steps, hitching, etc...because that's not what the offense requires. Nobody will see him do that until he declares for the NFL draft and has workouts with NFL coaches.

Being a Tebow or Gator fan isn't a crime, (well...maybe a misdemeanor...lol J/K :)) so I'm not going to hold that against you. My opinion is objective...not subjective. Tebow is a wonderful player.

"Potential" is all any prospect coming out of college has, whether he has a Heisman trophy, (Eric Crouch, Danny Weurffel, Gino Toretta, Andre Ware, Troy Smith, Jason White, etc.) or whether nobody has ever even heard of you while you were in college (Tony Romo, Jon Kitna, Jake Delhomme, Mark Brunnell, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.)

There are no sure things in the NFL Draft...only percentages...which favor Stafford over Tebow as far as an NFL career is concerned.

All the Heismans in the world can't change that...

BobDole
07-31-2008, 03:47 PM
I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I thought I'd chime in anyways. It's hard to compare anyone to Dan the man, but when you watch Dan's throwing motion his arm is always in an "L" position, elbow close to his side, tip of the ball pointing down field, and the release of the ball is near the ear. Tebow, on the other hand, has so much wasted movement in his throw.

Here's 3 pics to see just how bad it is:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics2.jpg (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics2.jpg)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/LedCheffelin/Tebowsthrowingmechanics3.jpg

his delivery is funky, but has improved so much. noticeable improvement from freshman to sophomore year. gonna do nothing but get better. but you are right, much wasted movement.

ZachThomas76
07-31-2008, 03:49 PM
Thanks to the guy who posted those pics of Tebows delivery. God awful. Dropping your elbow as a qb is never a good thing.

BobDole
07-31-2008, 03:51 PM
You haven't seen his footwork from taking a snap under center, dropping back 3, 5, or 7 steps, hitching, etc...because that's not what the offense requires. Nobody will see him do that until he declares for the NFL draft and has workouts with NFL coaches.

Being a Tebow or Gator fan isn't a crime, (well...maybe a misdemeanor...lol J/K :)) so I'm not going to hold that against you. My opinion is objective...not subjective. Tebow is a wonderful player.

"Potential" is all any prospect coming out of college has, whether he has a Heisman trophy, (Eric Crouch, Danny Weurffel, Gino Toretta, Andre Ware, Troy Smith, Jason White, etc.) or whether nobody has ever even heard of you while you were in college (Tony Romo, Jon Kitna, Jake Delhomme, Mark Brunnell, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Matt Hasselbeck, etc.)

There are no sure things in the NFL Draft...only percentages...which favor Stafford over Tebow as far as an NFL career is concerned.

All the Heismans in the world can't change that...


dude, i was referring to potential in college. he didn't exactly light the world on fire last year. he's gonna need to beef up those stats before we even start talking about potential in the nfl. tebow's already reached that point.

history isn't everything people. after next season this will be a real discussion.

TedSlimmJr
07-31-2008, 03:57 PM
dude, i was referring to potential in college. he didn't exactly light the world on fire last year. he's gonna need to beef up those stats before we even start talking about potential in the nfl. tebow's already reached that point.

history isn't everything people. after next season this will be a real discussion.


Stats will never determine who projects as the better pro...that's what you have to get out of your head...

How a prospects skillset PROJECTS to the next level is what determines who has the better pro potential...which is the question the originator of this thread asked...

The player with the best pro potential on the Gator offense is Percy Harvin.

History might not be everything...but it's 100X's more dependable than stats...lol.

BobDole
07-31-2008, 04:03 PM
Stats will never determine who projects as the better pro...that's what you have to get out of your head...

How a prospects skillset PROJECTS to the next level is what determines who has the better pro potential...which is the question the originator of this thread asked...

The player with the best pro potential on the Gator offense is Percy Harvin.

History might not be everything...but it's 100X's more dependable than stats...lol.


but stafford has to put up decent enough numbers in college - next year - for this to be an even somewhat relevant debate. he's just not there yet. he probably will be next year - but as of right now it is just like comparing any other qb in college football to tebow and who will have the most success in the nfl. next year.

shanem40
07-31-2008, 10:43 PM
Rusty Smith mark my words

XXXSURTAINXXX
08-01-2008, 06:03 AM
why do people assume that because we don't think tebow will make it in the nfl at qb we're gator haters???

i just don't like the offensive system he comes from which suits his skill sets to the t and the run to contact for the pro game.

his game is contact. recipe for disaster in the pros.

well imma gator hater.....:d-day:

ZachThomas76
08-01-2008, 01:07 PM
I just cant wait for some College ball. I get lots of Pac 10 out here, but i also get my share of the SEC. I think USC has a receiver that we could use, Patrick Turner. Ozzberry is a good one too, but I see him being too slow for the NFL.

SeanTeezee26
08-17-2008, 01:35 PM
Let's get this straight. I HATE the gators. A bunch of my friends are from UF so I always have to hear how amazing Tebow is. I have to give it to him though, he's a hell of a QB. Strong Arm, Accurate, Fairly high football IQ, Mobile. I'm not saying that he's gonna come into the NFL and start running over Rey Lewis or Shawn Merriman, but I'm sure he can be sucessful

Also, He's a leader. For all those who saw UF v. FSU this past season, i think that game prety much speaks for itself. RIP Geno Hayes:lol:

BobDole
08-28-2008, 05:05 PM
well imma gator hater.....:d-day:


down to 70 credits? looks like i picked the right guy to bet with. :wink:

i guess we just pick a number and whoever loses donates that amount of credits to the other person. does 1000 sound about right?

loved the mr kendal nickname for langford by the way. that song was my jam in 8th grade.

XXXSURTAINXXX
08-28-2008, 06:10 PM
down to 70 credits? looks like i picked the right guy to bet with. :wink:

i guess we just pick a number and whoever loses donates that amount of credits to the other person. does 1000 sound about right?

loved the mr kendal nickname for langford by the way. that song was my jam in 8th grade.

No I got plenty of credits....after Miami wins tonight Ill have 30,000.

BobDole
08-29-2008, 11:28 AM
No I got plenty of credits....after Miami wins tonight Ill have 30,000.


damn. you won that bet. good job.

all right. so, now that you have an over abundance of credits and confidence, should we up the anty? i would even go as far as whoever has the least amount of credits come florida/georgia to go all in. that would be a nice bet.

what do you think?

XXXSURTAINXXX
08-29-2008, 01:29 PM
damn. you won that bet. good job.

all right. so, now that you have an over abundance of credits and confidence, should we up the anty? i would even go as far as whoever has the least amount of credits come florida/georgia to go all in. that would be a nice bet.

what do you think?

Im cool with that. So just to be clear...When Georgia beat Florida you will donate all you have to me? :wink:

BobDole
08-30-2008, 06:37 PM
Im cool with that. So just to be clear...When Georgia beat Florida you will donate all you have to me? :wink:

sounds good. it's a bet.

XXXSURTAINXXX
08-30-2008, 06:45 PM
well you need to get some credits bro....Cause i got 30 k......But man Stafford sure looked great today.

phinking
08-31-2008, 10:09 PM
Let me tell you all something. The last time I saw a College QB as talented as Stafford, was 1981 when my best friend called me to check out a QB playing for Stanford named John Elway.

XXXSURTAINXXX
09-01-2008, 06:11 AM
Let me tell you all something. The last time I saw a College QB as talented as Stafford, was 1981 when my best friend called me to check out a QB playing for Stanford named John Elway.


I like you dude.....You must saw that GA game? he put some nice touches on those balls huh? AJ Green is a nice target for him right?

ThunderDan13
09-01-2008, 12:03 PM
You know.

If I were an NFL coach I would draft Tebow #1.

I would teach him to block. Then I would put him in the fullback position and have him be a real pass and run threat. I really think the NFL needs some innovation and with some of these monster athletes that will be coming out in the next few years (Tebow, Terrel Pryor) I think that such a position could be created.

Imagine it. What if the trickery in play-action didn't stop after the fake hand-off? How would defenses defend against a hand-off to a guy that has the talents to be a power runner and take it up the middle for a big gain, or take a step forward, stop, and then accurately throw a 25 yard pass. It could be lethal.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think its genius. Even at the least, with his size/smarts/speed he can probably be a competent pass/run blocker at FB.

Why is this so crazy? I think he has the arm to be a decent NFL QB and he has the legs/strength to be a decent NFL 3rd down back. Why not exploit both?

TedSlimmJr
09-01-2008, 05:29 PM
Let me tell you all something. The last time I saw a College QB as talented as Stafford, was 1981 when my best friend called me to check out a QB playing for Stanford named John Elway.

I wont go that far yet....but I think Stafford's arm strength is just a **** hair shy of Jamarcus Russell's....only more mechanically solid and accurate.

Tebow's release looks to be slightly improved from last season though....gets the ball out a fraction quicker than he did.

hooshoops
09-02-2008, 05:04 PM
i only saw the highlights but stafford threw some beautiful balls. he looks almost text book with his release to me and he's got one of the most effortless looking and strong arms i've seen.

XXXSURTAINXXX
09-02-2008, 10:20 PM
i only saw the highlights but stafford threw some beautiful balls. he looks almost text book with his release to me and he's got one of the most effortless looking and strong arms i've seen.


He only played the 1st half and threw for 275 yards. Stafford has a nice touch bro. Man.....I fear someone in the AFC East will draft him when he graduates.

Clipse
09-10-2008, 08:00 AM
Tim Tebow has no shot in the NFL imo. The system that Florida uses is about as different from any NFL system that you can find. Tim Tebow is a great college QB, nothing more.

XXXSURTAINXXX
11-03-2008, 12:48 PM
well Bob.....Florida did in fact beat the shyt out my beloved Dawgs. Same beat next year?


sounds good. it's a bet.

ckparrothead
11-03-2008, 05:44 PM
There must be a lot of gator fans in this thread for Tebow to be getting almost 40% of the vote.

miami_fins13
11-24-2008, 02:37 PM
Stafford because he's got a cannon and he runs more of a pro style offense. Tebow can be good doing something though even if it's not QB.

BobDole
11-24-2008, 04:41 PM
well Bob.....Florida did in fact beat the shyt out my beloved Dawgs. Same beat next year?


sounds good.

BobDole
11-24-2008, 04:56 PM
this debate is relevant now. and to be honest - i wouldn't take either one in the first round. stafford is all right but he is inconsistent and awful under pressure. not even in the
top 5 IMO. tebow is great but he does have so much talent surrounding him it's hard to differentiate skills from surroundings. i would still take him over stafford but not until the second round. but it doesn't matter because we don't need him anyway. but it would be cool to see what he could bring to the wildcat.

this debate should really be mccoy or harrell because they are both amazing. i'd take mccoy since harrell has crabtree.

JCane
11-25-2008, 12:26 AM
It's Matthew Stafford and it's not even close. It's not even a discussion. Tim Tebow is a great college quarterback but he is not a pro-style quarterback. Tim Tebow reminds me a lot of Tommy Frazier and the mid-ninties Nebraska teams. Matthew Stafford is the best quarterback coming out of college next to Sam Bradford. Tim Tebow won't even be looked at by NFL scouts as a quarterback.

Matthew Stafford easily.

JCane
11-25-2008, 12:28 AM
There must be a lot of gator fans in this thread for Tebow to be getting almost 40% of the vote.

+1

Valandui
11-25-2008, 12:57 AM
It's Matthew Stafford and it's not even close. It's not even a discussion. Tim Tebow is a great college quarterback but he is not a pro-style quarterback. Tim Tebow reminds me a lot of Tommy Frazier and the mid-ninties Nebraska teams. Matthew Stafford is the best quarterback coming out of college next to Sam Bradford. Tim Tebow won't even be looked at by NFL scouts as a quarterback.

Matthew Stafford easily.
I agree. Tebow might be a good Tight End or Fullback, but not a QB.

JCane
11-25-2008, 04:40 AM
I agree. Tebow might be a good Tight End or Fullback, but not a QB.

Fullback, I agree. Tim Tebow could very well go to the NFL and be a great Fullback. He doesn't exactly have the power that Mike Alstott had but Tebow is certainly more shifty, elusive, and athletic than Alstott. I've never even thought about putting him at Tight End in the NFL but this is an interesting thought to say the least. I don't know about his hands but Tebow knows how to run over the middle and plow a tackler.