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emeraldfin
06-11-2008, 08:36 AM
Can anyone here explain to me what is the offical stance of the Christian Church and the role of Satan?

Dolphan7
06-11-2008, 12:59 PM
Official Stance?

What we can tell about Satan is from the Bible.

He is a rebellious Fallen Angel.

1/3 of the angels in heaven followed his rebellion.

He is the serpent in Genesis 1.

He is the temporary ruler of this world until Christ returns.

He is a spirit and dwells in the spirit realm.

He has limited powers over individuals unless they invite him or his minions in.

Hell was created specifically for Satan and his ilk.

Will one day have influence on the coming anti-christ and will eventually become the anti-christ depending on how one reviews Revelations.

He will eventually be cast into Hell for eternity.

This is just off the top of my head and straight from the Bible.

Why the interest in Satan?

emeraldfin
06-12-2008, 05:01 AM
Well does the creation of Satan mean that Christianity is not a monotheistic religion, but dualist? Thats why I would actually like to know the Church's stance on the situation of Satan

Dolphan7
06-12-2008, 11:45 AM
Well does the creation of Satan mean that Christianity is not a monotheistic religion, but dualist? Thats why I would actually like to know the Church's stance on the situation of SatanThe Christian Church believes that God has always been in existance, knowing no beginning and no end.

Satan is a created being. So he has a beginning, and he will have an end so to speak.

God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Satan is none of the above. He has no God like powers.

So according to the Christian Church, there is only one God and Satan is just a created and fallen angel in constant rebellion against God.

emeraldfin
06-12-2008, 12:21 PM
But God has no control over Satan, if Satan did indeed rebel against God.

Now to me, a being that is able to influence factors on earth and the way people think (as seen in Genesis with Adam and Eve) Satan must then have similar powers to God. Anytime I attended Church I was always told to resist Satan and Satan's false promisies. Now to me it seems Satan must have God like powers IF Satan can affect our lives in the way God does.

SpurzN703
06-12-2008, 01:25 PM
The Christian Church believes that God has always been in existance, knowing no beginning and no end.

Satan is a created being. So he has a beginning, and he will have an end so to speak.

God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Satan is none of the above. He has no God like powers.

So according to the Christian Church, there is only one God and Satan is just a created and fallen angel in constant rebellion against God.

So why won't God put Satan in Hell for eternity now rather then any other time then now?

Dolphan7
06-12-2008, 01:27 PM
But God has no control over Satan, if Satan did indeed rebel against God.

Now to me, a being that is able to influence factors on earth and the way people think (as seen in Genesis with Adam and Eve) Satan must then have similar powers to God. Anytime I attended Church I was always told to resist Satan and Satan's false promisies. Now to me it seems Satan must have God like powers IF Satan can affect our lives in the way God does.

God has complete control over Satan, he just chooses not to exercise it, until the right time. Judgement day will come for Satan just as it will for everyone. Jesus has already defeated Satan via the Cross. Satan has been given temporary control of this world, but only until the return of Jesus.


1JN 5:19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.


Certainly Satan has powers, but they are confined to the spirit realm. He isn't even close to having God like Powers. He can't read your mind like God can. He can't be everywhere at once like God can. He can't be all knowing.

When people say to resist Satan and his false promises, they are really saying is to resist anything that is "anti-God". That is what Satan represents. He is anti-God. He will one day become the anti-Christ. His goal is to turn people away from God, that does not mean that they worship Satan, but Satan is happy if people simply reject God.

It is comforting to know that when one has been Baptized, Satan is prevented from interferring in our relationship with God. We are protected so to speak.


JN 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Now that doesn't mean that we can't voluntarily jump out of that hand! But as long as we are in that relationship with God, Satan has no power to stop that. He can tempt us, but that is about all he can do.

Dolphan7
06-12-2008, 01:30 PM
So why won't God put Satan in Hell for eternity now rather then any other time then now?That is a great question.....and the answer is.......


We don't know.


God has his timetable and his reasons. I can only speculate as to why.

It is hard for us as finite beings to understand the mind of an infinite God.

PS: I just thought of something. When a person is convicted of a crime, there is always that time between the trial and the sentencing trial. My guess is that Satan has already been defeated by Christ, and now it is just that period of time between then and the final sentencing. Just a guess though.

There are others who think that Hell doesn't exist yet. It gets into a real complicated explanation that would be best left alone for now, don't want to scare off the tourists ya know.

SpurzN703
06-12-2008, 11:28 PM
That is a great question.....and the answer is.......


We don't know.


God has his timetable and his reasons. I can only speculate as to why.

It is hard for us as finite beings to understand the mind of an infinite God.

PS: I just thought of something. When a person is convicted of a crime, there is always that time between the trial and the sentencing trial. My guess is that Satan has already been defeated by Christ, and now it is just that period of time between then and the final sentencing. Just a guess though.

There are others who think that Hell doesn't exist yet. It gets into a real complicated explanation that would be best left alone for now, don't want to scare off the tourists ya know.

Regarding your analogy though, if a person is waiting trial, they aren't out in society hurting people. If Satan was just waiting to be sentenced, isn't Satan still out there trying to corrupt people and bring them to his side?

If Satan was jail it would be similar but that's beyond nuts

Dolphan7
06-13-2008, 12:16 AM
Regarding your analogy though, if a person is waiting trial, they aren't out in society hurting people. If Satan was just waiting to be sentenced, isn't Satan still out there trying to corrupt people and bring them to his side?

If Satan was jail it would be similar but that's beyond nuts

It was just an analogy. But even then there are some who are free to roam the land while waiting for sentencing. Not for major crimes have you but the analogy fits.

Yes Satan is still allowed to roam the land and try to get as many people to deny God as he can. Remember that does not mean people must worship Satan, just deny God, and that makes Satan happy.

Satan has been defeated, meaning that Jesus was able to complete his mission and become that ultimate sacrifice in order for all of us to have that path to reconciliation with God, inspite of Satan's best efforts to prevent that from happening. Satan has long had the upper hand since he tricked Adam and Eve into sinning, bringing the punishment of death for us all. Jesus triumph on the cross saved us from that certain death. Now we have a choice - either follow God, or not. But the choice is up to each one of us individually to make.

emeraldfin
06-13-2008, 05:00 AM
It was just an analogy. But even then there are some who are free to roam the land while waiting for sentencing. Not for major crimes have you but the analogy fits.

Yes Satan is still allowed to roam the land and try to get as many people to deny God as he can. Remember that does not mean people must worship Satan, just deny God, and that makes Satan happy.

Satan has been defeated, meaning that Jesus was able to complete his mission and become that ultimate sacrifice in order for all of us to have that path to reconciliation with God, inspite of Satan's best efforts to prevent that from happening. Satan has long had the upper hand since he tricked Adam and Eve into sinning, bringing the punishment of death for us all. Jesus triumph on the cross saved us from that certain death. Now we have a choice - either follow God, or not. But the choice is up to each one of us individually to make.

The question fo me then is who is responsible for creating evil?

Now from reading Bible references it seems as though evil originated from Satan. Most dualistic religions try to define evil by claiming it was created by the evil god. I just dont understand why Satan has such a strong presence in the Bible and in the entire Christian religion if he was noting more than a rebelious angel. Evil and materialistic mindsets have never been more prominent on the planet than at any other stage.

Now of course I dont expect you to have all these answers Dolphan7, my arguement is that evil and Satans role in the spread of evil is far to prominent and influencial to be passed off as the doings of a trouble-some rouge.

SpurzN703
06-13-2008, 09:47 AM
It was just an analogy. But even then there are some who are free to roam the land while waiting for sentencing. Not for major crimes have you but the analogy fits.

Yes Satan is still allowed to roam the land and try to get as many people to deny God as he can. Remember that does not mean people must worship Satan, just deny God, and that makes Satan happy.

Satan has been defeated, meaning that Jesus was able to complete his mission and become that ultimate sacrifice in order for all of us to have that path to reconciliation with God, inspite of Satan's best efforts to prevent that from happening. Satan has long had the upper hand since he tricked Adam and Eve into sinning, bringing the punishment of death for us all. Jesus triumph on the cross saved us from that certain death. Now we have a choice - either follow God, or not. But the choice is up to each one of us individually to make.

I know it's just an analogy ;)

I just don't get why God would let trouble walk around and cause destruction when he had the chance to stop it at anytime.

One thing I don't understand about God is when people say they thank God for saving their lives during a flood or natural disaster.

If God did save them, why have the disaster in the first place? Why risk lives? Why kill people as a result?

Dolphan7
06-13-2008, 11:11 AM
The question fo me then is who is responsible for creating evil?

Now from reading Bible references it seems as though evil originated from Satan. Most dualistic religions try to define evil by claiming it was created by the evil god. I just dont understand why Satan has such a strong presence in the Bible and in the entire Christian religion if he was noting more than a rebelious angel. Evil and materialistic mindsets have never been more prominent on the planet than at any other stage.

Now of course I dont expect you to have all these answers Dolphan7, my arguement is that evil and Satans role in the spread of evil is far to prominent and influencial to be passed off as the doings of a trouble-some rouge.Maybe it would be easier to understand it this way:

Satan is evil, I don't think there is any doubt about that. He rebelled against God and many followed his lead, these are the demons and minions in the spirit world, fallen angels also. Satan was intrumental in causing Adam and Eve to bring sin into this world and to mankind. So Satan was part of the beginning of sin and evil, but that does not mean that he is involved in every and all sin from that point forward. Mankind has perpetrated some of the most heinous evils ever, and Satan just sits back and laughs, seeing man doing his work for him - which is to drive people away from God. We brought sin and evil into this world. Satan was just the facilitator so to speak. Adam and Eve had a choice, as we all do, freedom of choice to follow God, or not. They chose to disobey God and the result is sin entered the world at that time and has multiplied ever since.

Does that help?

Dolphan7
06-13-2008, 11:49 AM
I know it's just an analogy ;)

I just don't get why God would let trouble walk around and cause destruction when he had the chance to stop it at anytime.

One thing I don't understand about God is when people say they thank God for saving their lives during a flood or natural disaster.

If God did save them, why have the disaster in the first place? Why risk lives? Why kill people as a result?Well as I commented earlier, God has his own timetable for Satan. Certainly if it were you or me we would have been done with Satan long ago. And maybe if we were privy to God's ultimate timetable we would understand why he waits for the final judgement. Maybe it has something to do with the longevity of the earth, the physical earth?

Remember that in the beginning God created the earth complete and perfect. Then sin entered the world, then the flood and the earth is not getting better, but getting older, and worse, and you can point to Global warming/cooling as a symptom of that. Earth won't last forever. Earth has a beginning, and an end. Earth isn't infinite. Only God is. Maybe that has something to do with it, but that is pure speculation on my part. The bible doesn't say.

Regarding disasters and people thanking God for their lives. I think that is just a common reaction when people survive something traumatic as that. I have heard atheists thank God after a catasrophe - go figure! That doesn't mean that God didn't step in and help, but it doesn't mean that he did either.

The assumption I think you are making is that God made these natural disasters happen. We hear the phrase "Acts of God". Well the plain and simple truth is, God isn't up there picking and choosing when to send hurricanes and tornadoes and earthquakes and tsunami's and "pick your natural disaster". Keep in mind that when sin entered the world, though our choice (Adam and Eve), the world became unstable in the sense that God's perfect creation was violated and sin takes on many different forms, some man made, some natural like earth movement, severe weather from storms to drought etc....

After the flood of Noah the world's climate has changed and that accelerated earth decline, increasing the rate of natural disasters. I think there is an increasing amount of instability going on in the world. I think earthquakes are getting more common and more severe, I see more devastating storms wreaking havok all across the globe at a seemingly higher rate than in the past. We don't have to look very far to hear about global warming and greenhouse and such that are a serious threat to mankind. Earth is winding down so to speak, it won't last forever.

So God isn't making these things happen. They are the result of sin having it's effect on the world.

So why doesn't God save more people - kind like when Superman flies all over the world saving everyone from destruction?

Becasue his hands are tied so to speak. Because when we chose sin over God, we have to suffer the consequences of that sin. It is like a child of yours that does something bad. When that happens then a good parent disciplines that child. Cause and effect. God is like a giant father figure to mankind, and to each of us individually. When we sin, we have to pay the consequences of that sin. God can't take away the consequences of our choices. Just as a child needs to learn from his mistakes, and suffering the consequences is part of that learning, so we too must suffer and learn from our mistakes.

And the consequences of mankinds sin is death. The bible says that the wages of sin is death. We deserve death, that is the choice we made, and that is the price for that sin. I know it seems rather harsh, but we don't get to make up the rules. Only God does, and that is just the way he sees it. So we must die for our sins. And everyone klnows there are two things you can count on in this world. Death and taxes. We all die. And also there is nothing we can do to make up for our sins. Nothing. Can't be good enough. Can't work our way to salvation. God demands perection. We are not perfect. So we are stuck. We are dead. There is no hope for us. We are totally disconnectd from God. God cannot stand to be around sin, being as perfect as the purest white known to man, and then some.

Unless there was someone who could pay the price of our sin for us. If there was someone who would be that perfect sacrifice acceptable to God, then we could have that hope and that chance to re-connect with Him. And there is!.....Jesus. Jesus paid the price for all our sins. Being perfect he didn't have to die having not committed any sin at all. But because he so loved the world he willingly gave himself up for our salvation. Not only that but he defeated death by rising from the dead on the third day. We don't deserve it, but he gave it to us as a gift. So now we have a way to reconnect with God. All we have to do is accept that free gift, the gift of Grace, given by Jesus on the cross. through Jesus, and only through Him are we now acceptable to God.

emeraldfin
06-14-2008, 06:42 AM
Well as I commented earlier, God has his own timetable for Satan. Certainly if it were you or me we would have been done with Satan long ago. And maybe if we were privy to God's ultimate timetable we would understand why he waits for the final judgement. Maybe it has something to do with the longevity of the earth, the physical earth?

Remember that in the beginning God created the earth complete and perfect. Then sin entered the world, then the flood and the earth is not getting better, but getting older, and worse, and you can point to Global warming/cooling as a symptom of that. Earth won't last forever. Earth has a beginning, and an end. Earth isn't infinite. Only God is. Maybe that has something to do with it, but that is pure speculation on my part. The bible doesn't say.

Regarding disasters and people thanking God for their lives. I think that is just a common reaction when people survive something traumatic as that. I have heard atheists thank God after a catasrophe - go figure! That doesn't mean that God didn't step in and help, but it doesn't mean that he did either.

The assumption I think you are making is that God made these natural disasters happen. We hear the phrase "Acts of God". Well the plain and simple truth is, God isn't up there picking and choosing when to send hurricanes and tornadoes and earthquakes and tsunami's and "pick your natural disaster". Keep in mind that when sin entered the world, though our choice (Adam and Eve), the world became unstable in the sense that God's perfect creation was violated and sin takes on many different forms, some man made, some natural like earth movement, severe weather from storms to drought etc....

After the flood of Noah the world's climate has changed and that accelerated earth decline, increasing the rate of natural disasters. I think there is an increasing amount of instability going on in the world. I think earthquakes are getting more common and more severe, I see more devastating storms wreaking havok all across the globe at a seemingly higher rate than in the past. We don't have to look very far to hear about global warming and greenhouse and such that are a serious threat to mankind. Earth is winding down so to speak, it won't last forever.

So God isn't making these things happen. They are the result of sin having it's effect on the world.

So why doesn't God save more people - kind like when Superman flies all over the world saving everyone from destruction?

Becasue his hands are tied so to speak. Because when we chose sin over God, we have to suffer the consequences of that sin. It is like a child of yours that does something bad. When that happens then a good parent disciplines that child. Cause and effect. God is like a giant father figure to mankind, and to each of us individually. When we sin, we have to pay the consequences of that sin. God can't take away the consequences of our choices. Just as a child needs to learn from his mistakes, and suffering the consequences is part of that learning, so we too must suffer and learn from our mistakes.

And the consequences of mankinds sin is death. The bible says that the wages of sin is death. We deserve death, that is the choice we made, and that is the price for that sin. I know it seems rather harsh, but we don't get to make up the rules. Only God does, and that is just the way he sees it. So we must die for our sins. And everyone klnows there are two things you can count on in this world. Death and taxes. We all die. And also there is nothing we can do to make up for our sins. Nothing. Can't be good enough. Can't work our way to salvation. God demands perection. We are not perfect. So we are stuck. We are dead. There is no hope for us. We are totally disconnectd from God. God cannot stand to be around sin, being as perfect as the purest white known to man, and then some.

Unless there was someone who could pay the price of our sin for us. If there was someone who would be that perfect sacrifice acceptable to God, then we could have that hope and that chance to re-connect with Him. And there is!.....Jesus. Jesus paid the price for all our sins. Being perfect he didn't have to die having not committed any sin at all. But because he so loved the world he willingly gave himself up for our salvation. Not only that but he defeated death by rising from the dead on the third day. We don't deserve it, but he gave it to us as a gift. So now we have a way to reconnect with God. All we have to do is accept that free gift, the gift of Grace, given by Jesus on the cross. through Jesus, and only through Him are we now acceptable to God.

You say we chose sin over God, then does that not mean that we are all evil creatures? The problem I see with Jesus giving up Himself for our sins is that, ultimetly it has done noting. The world we live in today is far more material and selfish than at any other point in history. Religion in the West is pretty much dying in front of our eyes. I live in a country where it is now more strange for someone to go to church than not go.

People in the West just dont want to believe anymore and in there eyes, they dont need religion. Money and material ownership is all that matters. I personally believe that in 100 years time only 25% of people in this country (Ireland) will attend church. For some strange reason or another God has adopted a very Lassiez Faire attitude to what He created over the past 2000 years and now people are begining to turn their backs on him.
To quote German philospoher Friedrich Nietzsche "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him."

And the person who created evil, Satan now has more control over people than God has, more so in the West.

SpurzN703
06-14-2008, 11:54 PM
You say we chose sin over God, then does that not mean that we are all evil creatures? The problem I see with Jesus giving up Himself for our sins is that, ultimetly it has done noting. The world we live in today is far more material and selfish than at any other point in history. Religion in the West is pretty much dying in front of our eyes. I live in a country where it is now more strange for someone to go to church than not go.

People in the West just dont want to believe anymore and in there eyes, they dont need religion. Money and material ownership is all that matters. I personally believe that in 100 years time only 25% of people in this country (Ireland) will attend church. For some strange reason or another God has adopted a very Lassiez Faire attitude to what He created over the past 2000 years and now people are begining to turn their backs on him.
To quote German philospoher Friedrich Nietzsche "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him."

And the person who created evil, Satan now has more control over people than God has, more so in the West.

So people who get killed in disasters did so b/c of sin? Is it really that bland yet that serious?

SpurzN703
06-14-2008, 11:56 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

I understand what you're saying but my goodness that isn't fair if that's how it really is (though no one said it was). If we can't make up what sins are, why do we get hurt b/c we do the things the commandments or whatever says.

I don't but it

Dolphan7
06-16-2008, 12:49 PM
So people who get killed in disasters did so b/c of sin? Is it really that bland yet that serious?A better way to look at it is that they didn't die because God made it happen.

They died because of Sin, not their individual sin, but the result of sin in the world.

Dolphan7
06-16-2008, 01:04 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

I understand what you're saying but my goodness that isn't fair if that's how it really is (though no one said it was). If we can't make up what sins are, why do we get hurt b/c we do the things the commandments or whatever says.

I don't but itWhy do bad things happen to good people? That is the question.

It just goes to my point that God isn't up there orchstrating natural disasters. Even good God fearing people are victims too.

If it were God causing it, then it wouldn't be fair to those who follow his commandments now would it.

This is why it isn't God.

But we don't get to make up the rules.

Only God can.

If you look at it from God's perspective regarding fairness;

Was it fair that God gave us everything in the Garden of Eden, and we chose evil instead?

Was it fair that after saving the Jews from Egyptian slavery, that the Jews wanted to go back into slavery so they could have their favorite foods to eat again?

Was it fair that God sent his only son to save us from our sins, and they killed him?

I think God has been more than fair with us.

Dolphan7
06-16-2008, 01:15 PM
You say we chose sin over God, then does that not mean that we are all evil creatures? The problem I see with Jesus giving up Himself for our sins is that, ultimetly it has done noting. The world we live in today is far more material and selfish than at any other point in history. Religion in the West is pretty much dying in front of our eyes. I live in a country where it is now more strange for someone to go to church than not go.

People in the West just dont want to believe anymore and in there eyes, they dont need religion. Money and material ownership is all that matters. I personally believe that in 100 years time only 25% of people in this country (Ireland) will attend church. For some strange reason or another God has adopted a very Lassiez Faire attitude to what He created over the past 2000 years and now people are begining to turn their backs on him.
To quote German philospoher Friedrich Nietzsche "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him."

And the person who created evil, Satan now has more control over people than God has, more so in the West.

I can't argue with what you are saying. The world is slowly turning away from God and embracing themsleves, moral relativism and relative truths. European church attendance is at an all time low, with no end in site. America is struggling between maintaining God as a presence in it's society and those who would seek to eliminate God from every facet. Sadly, eventually America will succomb and become like Europe,and usher in the new world order, religion, government, money and Leader! Yes there will be a world leader someday who will lead over all the nations. There will be no room for Christianity in that world.

Jesus dying for our sins was to give us a choice to accept His free gift of grace, salvation through belief in Jesus. It wasn't to make the world a better place, although His hope is that all be saved, the reality is that only a few will.



MT 7:13 " Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
MT 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

SpurzN703
06-16-2008, 02:42 PM
A better way to look at it is that they didn't die because God made it happen.

They died because of Sin, not their individual sin, but the result of sin in the world.

Or they just died because that's just how it goes

SpurzN703
06-16-2008, 02:43 PM
Why do bad things happen to good people? That is the question.

It just goes to my point that God isn't up there orchstrating natural disasters. Even good God fearing people are victims too.

If it were God causing it, then it wouldn't be fair to those who follow his commandments now would it.

This is why it isn't God.

But we don't get to make up the rules.

Only God can.

If you look at it from God's perspective regarding fairness;

Was it fair that God gave us everything in the Garden of Eden, and we chose evil instead?

Was it fair that after saving the Jews from Egyptian slavery, that the Jews wanted to go back into slavery so they could have their favorite foods to eat again?

Was it fair that God sent his only son to save us from our sins, and they killed him?

I think God has been more than fair with us.

We didn't choose evil b/c we weren't there. It hasn't been fair from the beginning of time.

Dolphan7
06-16-2008, 03:24 PM
We didn't choose evil b/c we weren't there. It hasn't been fair from the beginning of time.
No we were not there, but we still have a choice to follow God or not. We still sin everyday. God gave us choices then and now, and he has been fair all throughout time.

The whole point of the OT was to show us that we can't ever be good enough to be acceptable to God, to washaway our sins. They tried it, tried to obey all those rules in the OT, in the first 5 books. Those books are loaded with all sorts of things we needed to live by, perfectly, in order to meet God's standard. No one could do it everyday perfectly. At one point we all sin.

That is true today. That is why Jesus is so important to us, because it removes the necessity for us to atone for our own sins, instead he atoned for it by his death burrial and ressurection. The NT is all about Jesus and salvation through faith in Him alone. A clear choice once again, and a relatively easy one compared to doing what the OT demanded. That is totally fair because we don't deserve it.

So the question is what choice will you make?

emeraldfin
06-17-2008, 04:54 AM
I can't argue with what you are saying. The world is slowly turning away from God and embracing themsleves, moral relativism and relative truths. European church attendance is at an all time low, with no end in site. America is struggling between maintaining God as a presence in it's society and those who would seek to eliminate God from every facet. Sadly, eventually America will succomb and become like Europe,and usher in the new world order, religion, government, money and Leader! Yes there will be a world leader someday who will lead over all the nations. There will be no room for Christianity in that world.

Jesus dying for our sins was to give us a choice to accept His free gift of grace, salvation through belief in Jesus. It wasn't to make the world a better place, although His hope is that all be saved, the reality is that only a few will.

If I did'nt know better Dolphan7 you seem to have a very "illuminating" view on the future :wink:

Dolphan7
06-21-2008, 01:06 AM
If I did'nt know better Dolphan7 you seem to have a very "illuminating" view on the future :wink:Illuminating huh? I thought it was a dim view myself!

WVDolphan
06-21-2008, 04:00 AM
God has complete control over Satan, he just chooses not to exercise it, until the right time. Judgement day will come for Satan just as it will for everyone. Jesus has already defeated Satan via the Cross. Satan has been given temporary control of this world, but only until the return of Jesus.




Certainly Satan has powers, but they are confined to the spirit realm. He isn't even close to having God like Powers. He can't read your mind like God can. He can't be everywhere at once like God can. He can't be all knowing.

When people say to resist Satan and his false promises, they are really saying is to resist anything that is "anti-God". That is what Satan represents. He is anti-God. He will one day become the anti-Christ. His goal is to turn people away from God, that does not mean that they worship Satan, but Satan is happy if people simply reject God.

It is comforting to know that when one has been Baptized, Satan is prevented from interferring in our relationship with God. We are protected so to speak.



Now that doesn't mean that we can't voluntarily jump out of that hand! But as long as we are in that relationship with God, Satan has no power to stop that. He can tempt us, but that is about all he can do.


This "God" you speak of is starting to sound like a real prick. Youre telling us he is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Therefore he has complete control over this "Satan" character who is a real piece of work that likes to cause pain and suffering for everyone. But, this "God" who has the three characteristics you mentioned just turns "Satan" loose on everyone until Jesus returns and were all ****ed until then. What a prick. Sounds pretty much like this "God" you talk about is just playing some kind of game by himself and nothing we do really matters. Kinda like when you were a kid and you played GI Joes or something by yourself and whatever you wanted to happen is how it went down. What bs. I dont like your theory at all.

Btw, your whole story there sounds like some star wars movie or something. Pretty unfathomable to me how grown men and women, a decent percentage of them are quite intelligent outside of this thinking, believe such wild ****. Its really unreal.

If no one was exposed to the ideas of religion until they were at least 18 years old.......how many people do you think would actually believe this bs? Like......4....maybe? Imagine telling a grown person with an above average education, who had never heard of any type of religious ideas this whole story. :lol: They would think you are completely schitzo or something.

WVDolphan
06-21-2008, 04:07 AM
A better way to look at it is that they didn't die because God made it happen.

They died because of Sin, not their individual sin, but the result of sin in the world.

No. Usually people die for lots of other reasons.....heart failure, accident, jump off a building, someone smashes them in the head with a bowling ball, etc etc... Everybody dies. And it may or may not have anything to do with "sin".

Besides, you said god was omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. So you cant say that and then say people didnt die because god made it happen. Or maybe you just use circular logic that makes no sense at all.

Dolphan7
06-23-2008, 05:15 PM
This "God" you speak of is starting to sound like a real prick. Youre telling us he is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Therefore he has complete control over this "Satan" character who is a real piece of work that likes to cause pain and suffering for everyone. But, this "God" who has the three characteristics you mentioned just turns "Satan" loose on everyone until Jesus returns and were all ****ed until then. What a prick. Sounds pretty much like this "God" you talk about is just playing some kind of game by himself and nothing we do really matters. Kinda like when you were a kid and you played GI Joes or something by yourself and whatever you wanted to happen is how it went down. What bs. I dont like your theory at all.

Btw, your whole story there sounds like some star wars movie or something. Pretty unfathomable to me how grown men and women, a decent percentage of them are quite intelligent outside of this thinking, believe such wild ****. Its really unreal.

If no one was exposed to the ideas of religion until they were at least 18 years old.......how many people do you think would actually believe this bs? Like......4....maybe? Imagine telling a grown person with an above average education, who had never heard of any type of religious ideas this whole story. :lol: They would think you are completely schitzo or something.And what are your beliefs? Please disclose so that someone other than myself can make a mockery of your belief system.

I may not agree with whatever you may believe or not believe in. But I respect your right to decide for yourself. And I would never try to make fun of it, or mock it, or attack it in such a disrespectful way as you have here.

dolfan_101
06-24-2008, 03:47 AM
This "God" you speak of is starting to sound like a real prick. Youre telling us he is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Therefore he has complete control over this "Satan" character who is a real piece of work that likes to cause pain and suffering for everyone. But, this "God" who has the three characteristics you mentioned just turns "Satan" loose on everyone until Jesus returns and were all ****ed until then. What a prick. Sounds pretty much like this "God" you talk about is just playing some kind of game by himself and nothing we do really matters. Kinda like when you were a kid and you played GI Joes or something by yourself and whatever you wanted to happen is how it went down. What bs. I dont like your theory at all.

Btw, your whole story there sounds like some star wars movie or something. Pretty unfathomable to me how grown men and women, a decent percentage of them are quite intelligent outside of this thinking, believe such wild ****. Its really unreal.

If no one was exposed to the ideas of religion until they were at least 18 years old.......how many people do you think would actually believe this bs? Like......4....maybe? Imagine telling a grown person with an above average education, who had never heard of any type of religious ideas this whole story. :lol: They would think you are completely schitzo or something.

You present nothing here but just arrogance and disrespect, it's a lot easier to just to gun on someone than to have an actual conversation, you're pretty disgusting for that...

SamTodd
06-29-2008, 12:04 AM
religion sounds like a bad video game

SpurzN703
06-29-2008, 12:24 PM
No we were not there, but we still have a choice to follow God or not. We still sin everyday. God gave us choices then and now, and he has been fair all throughout time.

The whole point of the OT was to show us that we can't ever be good enough to be acceptable to God, to washaway our sins. They tried it, tried to obey all those rules in the OT, in the first 5 books. Those books are loaded with all sorts of things we needed to live by, perfectly, in order to meet God's standard. No one could do it everyday perfectly. At one point we all sin.

That is true today. That is why Jesus is so important to us, because it removes the necessity for us to atone for our own sins, instead he atoned for it by his death burrial and ressurection. The NT is all about Jesus and salvation through faith in Him alone. A clear choice once again, and a relatively easy one compared to doing what the OT demanded. That is totally fair because we don't deserve it.

So the question is what choice will you make?

Name sins that you think teenage or young adults break these days and I'll prove my point/ask my questions.

Dolphan7
06-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Name sins that you think teenage or young adults break these days and I'll prove my point/ask my questions.
They lie, they cheat, they steal, sexual sin that knows no bounds, just to name a few off the top of my head.