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View Full Version : Gay men, straight women share brain detail: report



Joker2thief
06-16-2008, 02:49 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080616/lf_nm_life/brain_gay_dc

rafael
06-16-2008, 08:48 PM
It's only a matter of time until they prove that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice.

Dolphan7
06-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Well and here it begins. The so called scientific evidence that shows homosexuality isn't a choice, that people are born with it.

What about the child lovers out there? Pedophiles? Are they born that way too?

And the murderers and the rapists? They are born with it?

I mean how far will we go to tell ourselves that whatever we do isn't our fault and we are just born that way and therefore are not responsible for our actions before God?

Joker2thief
06-17-2008, 12:37 AM
Why would you automatically associate homosexuals with pedophiles and rapist?
You bring up God in a science forum why?I don't believe God says anything about rapist or pedophiles so why make that leap?Kind of the reason i did not post this in the Religion forum-but as a moderator I'm sure you will keep it on topic.
I'm sorry you feel you need to make a choice about your sexuality.I guess i am one of the few who know who i am attracted to and who i will be having sex with.But i guess from your point of view you as it being a choice you can double your odds with having a choice between both sexes.

HurriPhin
06-17-2008, 03:46 AM
I thought they just shared emotional instability and high heels. :lol:

Dolphan7
06-17-2008, 11:45 AM
Why would you automatically associate homosexuals with pedophiles and rapist?
You bring up God in a science forum why?I don't believe God says anything about rapist or pedophiles so why make that leap?Kind of the reason i did not post this in the Religion forum-but as a moderator I'm sure you will keep it on topic.
I'm sorry you feel you need to make a choice about your sexuality.I guess i am one of the few who know who i am attracted to and who i will be having sex with.But i guess from your point of view you as it being a choice you can double your odds with having a choice between both sexes.
There is no way the topic of homosexuality is going to not overlap with religion, not in this country. I'll try to leave the G word out of it.

I don't automatically associate homosexuals with pedophiles or rapists. But they are sexual orientations too are they not, and according to your POV, they are born with it, and the implication is if you are born with it, it is natural right? I am just trying to show how unrealistic that view is. I mean once you open up that box, you have to include all sexual orientation.

Then Beastiality is a sexual orientation, as well as poligamy and a host of other sexual preferences.

If they are all inborn and natural................

Blackocrates
06-17-2008, 04:24 PM
I don't automatically associate homosexuals with pedophiles or rapists. But they are sexual orientations too are they not, and according to your POV, they are born with it, and the implication is if you are born with it, it is natural right? I am just trying to show how unrealistic that view is. I mean once you open up that box, you have to include all sexual orientation.

Then Beastiality is a sexual orientation, as well as poligamy and a host of other sexual preferences.

If they are all inborn and natural................

Pedophilia and rape are not sexual orientations. You're way off and by claiming they are sexual orientations, you are associating them with homosexuality. If you are going to do that you have to include heterosexuals, bisexuals, and asexuals.

Do you not see the distinction between sexual orientation, (which is only classified as either homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, or asexual) and rape or pedophiles? If not then you are way out of sorts.

You are confusing sexual acts with sexual orientations. You are just trying to vilify homosexuals. Why would you take an article about brain scans that show a tendency towards something and infuse God, rape, humping goats, and pedophilia into it?

Dolphan7
06-17-2008, 05:29 PM
Pedophilia and rape are not sexual orientations. You're way off and by claiming they are sexual orientations, you are associating them with homosexuality. If you are going to do that you have to include heterosexuals, bisexuals, and asexuals.

Do you not see the distinction between sexual orientation, (which is only classified as either homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, or asexual) and rape or pedophiles? If not then you are way out of sorts.

You are confusing sexual acts with sexual orientations. You are just trying to vilify homosexuals. Why would you take an article about brain scans that show a tendency towards something and infuse God, rape, humping goats, and pedophilia into it?And who determines the definitions of sexual orientation/preference?

Whether you think so or not if you are a man, and you like men that is one orientation/preference. If you are a man and you like children, then that is another preference. If you are a man and you like animals, that is a third orientation. If you are a man and like whips and chains then that is another orientation. And the list goes on and on.

Everyone has their preference as to what their favorite sex is, whether that be with a man, a woman, a child or a horse, or with several women, or by being whipped by a dominatrix.

It is a preference/orientation and is learned behavior, not inborn.

And you want it to be learned behavior becasue if it is inborn, then it is natural and if it is natural then all the beastmasters and pedophiles are just as normal as a gay man. And I don't think gay men want to be considered normal alongside the likes of those.

The only reason I bring God up is that only God has the authority to set an absolute moral standard. And he has set that standard. And people just continue to try to rationalize their behavior away, using science to justify it. But in the end it won't matter. We all meet our maker in the end. And then some may remember a D7 on a Dolphin board reminding them and warning them well before it was too late.

Blackocrates
06-17-2008, 06:14 PM
And who determines the definitions of sexual orientation/preference?

Whether you think so or not if you are a man, and you like men that is one orientation/preference. If you are a man and you like children, then that is another preference. If you are a man and you like animals, that is a third orientation. If you are a man and like whips and chains then that is another orientation. And the list goes on and on.

Everyone has their preference as to what their favorite sex is, whether that be with a man, a woman, a child or a horse, or with several women, or by being whipped by a dominatrix.

It is a preference/orientation and is learned behavior, not inborn.

And you want it to be learned behavior becasue if it is inborn, then it is natural and if it is natural then all the beastmasters and pedophiles are just as normal as a gay man. And I don't think gay men want to be considered normal alongside the likes of those.

The only reason I bring God up is that only God has the authority to set an absolute moral standard. And he has set that standard. And people just continue to try to rationalize their behavior away, using science to justify it. But in the end it won't matter. We all meet our maker in the end. And then some may remember a D7 on a Dolphin board reminding them and warning them well before it was too late.

You're interchanging an act or preference with orientation. They are two separate things. My orientation is heterosexual, my preference is for beautiful brunettes that don't mind me tugging on their hair every once in a while. I was born a heterosexual, I learned to prefer brunettes with a little sass to them.

Rape is an act. Rape is not a sexual orientation. Pedophilia is an act. Older men that have a homosexual orientation may like boys. Some older men that have a heterosexual orientation may like girls. They prefer kids, their orientation leads them to either boys or girls.

My question to you is did you really have to learn to be a heterosexual? Are you saying there was a time when you could have learned to be a homosexual?

Dolphan7
06-17-2008, 08:49 PM
You're interchanging an act or preference with orientation. They are two separate things. My orientation is heterosexual, my preference is for beautiful brunettes that don't mind me tugging on their hair every once in a while. I was born a heterosexual, I learned to prefer brunettes with a little sass to them.

Rape is an act. Rape is not a sexual orientation. Pedophilia is an act. Older men that have a homosexual orientation may like boys. Some older men that have a heterosexual orientation may like girls. They prefer kids, their orientation leads them to either boys or girls.

My question to you is did you really have to learn to be a heterosexual? Are you saying there was a time when you could have learned to be a homosexual?You are using societal definitions, which are man made and can change over time. I am using Biblical definitions that have been set in stone by the Creator.

Regarding your last question - if I, or anyone, grew up in a home and community like some parts of San Francisco that promote homosexuality as normal behavior and acceptable morally, then yes there is a good chance I or anyone would grow up gay. It is a learned behavior.

And even if it isn't learned, we still have a responsibiltiy to the Creator to do what is right.

Whether a murderer is born that way, or learns to kill, that person still has a responsibility to do the right thing under God, and in this country under the law as well.

We can't define our own morality. It has already been defined for us.

Blackocrates
06-17-2008, 09:06 PM
You are using societal definitions, which are man made and can change over time. I am using Biblical definitions that have been set in stone by the Creator.

Regarding your last question - if I, or anyone, grew up in a home and community like some parts of San Francisco that promote homosexuality as normal behavior and acceptable morally, then yes there is a good chance I or anyone would grow up gay. It is a learned behavior.

And even if it isn't learned, we still have a responsibiltiy to the Creator to do what is right.

Whether a murderer is born that way, or learns to kill, that person still has a responsibility to do the right thing under God, and in this country under the law as well.

We can't define our own morality. It has already been defined for us.

But the definitions of sexual orientations are correct. It's not societal, it's scientific. You have a male and female. Sexual orientation encompasses all the possibilities. Male/female, male/male, male/female and male/male (bisexual), female/female, and the good ol' asexual that wants nothing to do with anybody. Those are the only orientations. Now what a person chooses to do with their orientation is their preference.

That's why it's not fair for you to equate certain sexual orientations (homosexuals) with perverted preferences. Why don't you equate heterosexuals with rapist and pedophiles? Because males rape females, and males go after young females (children).

Blackocrates
06-17-2008, 09:08 PM
I thought they just shared emotional instability and high heels. :lol:

Don't forget makeup and secrets. :lol:

Dolphan7
06-18-2008, 03:13 PM
But the definitions of sexual orientations are correct. It's not societal, it's scientific. You have a male and female. Sexual orientation encompasses all the possibilities. Male/female, male/male, male/female and male/male (bisexual), female/female, and the good ol' asexual that wants nothing to do with anybody. Those are the only orientations. Now what a person chooses to do with their orientation is their preference.

That's why it's not fair for you to equate certain sexual orientations (homosexuals) with perverted preferences. Why don't you equate heterosexuals with rapist and pedophiles? Because males rape females, and males go after young females (children).Scientific huh? Science changes just as much as I change my underwear.

Listen, According to the bible, sex between one man and one woman within a marriage is the standard. Anything else is considered taboo. Anything outside those confines are perversions or deviations to the acceptable norm.You can put all types of labels and definitions all you want, but when it comes to an absolute morality, those are the conditions. So according to that yes all sex outside marriage is wrong. That does not mean that I equate homosexuals with pedophiles. There clearly is a difference. But God does. That is just the way he is, that is His deal.

So if homosexuality is normal and natural then, why isn't pedophilia and beastiality and polygamy normal and natural then? To me they should all be treated the same no?

rafael
06-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Personally, I'm a heterosexual male and I never made the choice to be attracted to women. I don't have any reason to believe that others have anymore choice in the matter than I did.

I also don't agree that pedophilia and beastiality should be treated the same as homosexuality. Legally those first to acts are banned b/c the child is not considered able to make their own choice and in the case of animals there are many diseases that result from the act. Homosexuality between consenting adults doesn't have those issues, at least not anymore than heterosexual sex does.

Dolphan7
06-18-2008, 05:21 PM
I didn't choose to be heterosexual either - I was designed that way by God. That is the way He made us. We were made that way by design and intent and purpose. One man, for one women, in the covenenant of marriage. Anything outside that is by default not by design, therefore not normal, not appropriate or acceptable, and is a deviation from the norm.

rafael
06-18-2008, 05:42 PM
I didn't choose to be heterosexual either - I was designed that way by God. That is the way He made us. We were made that way by design and intent and purpose. One man, for one women, in the covenenant of marriage. Anything outside that is by default not by design, therefore not normal, not appropriate or acceptable, and is a deviation from the norm.

The point of the study was that there is evidence of biological design differences between people who are attracted to different sexes. If you want to say that was God's screw up then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Blackocrates
06-18-2008, 05:54 PM
Scientific huh? Science changes just as much as I change my underwear.

Maybe I shouldn't have used that word, because you focused on it. That's why I explained each possible choice between male and female. I don't see where it is debatable.

Listen, According to the bible, sex between one man and one woman within a marriage is the standard. Anything else is considered taboo. Anything outside those confines are perversions or deviations to the acceptable norm.You can put all types of labels and definitions all you want, but when it comes to an absolute morality, those are the conditions. So according to that yes all sex outside marriage is wrong. That does not mean that I equate homosexuals with pedophiles. There clearly is a difference. But God does. That is just the way he is, that is His deal.

You may be right you may be wrong, that's not what this thread is about so I'm not going to discuss this.

So if homosexuality is normal and natural then, why isn't pedophilia and beastiality and polygamy normal and natural then? To me they should all be treated the same no?

No, I don't know why you're not understanding this. I completely explained it earlier. Their are sexual orientations that encompass all the possible scenarios between a male and female. Then their are acts or preferences as you described them. Those are what we choose to do with our sexual orientation. That's why I used the example of heterosexuality being compared to pedophilia as being as incorrect as comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Pedophilia isn't an orientation it's a preference. This is a really simple issue that can't be debated. Sexual orientation is separate from sexual preferences or sexual acts. Therefore your comparison is false and completely inaccurate.

I believe I know what your trying to do, but your argument does pass the smell test or laugh test as one of my professor's called it. I understand that you believe their is only one right sexual behavior and only one right sexual orientation and that those should be the only one's viewed as compatable with society/government/churches, etc. I understand that since you believe their is only one right sexual act and sexual orientation then all others are wrong and should be thrown into the same category. Your overall belief may be right, I don't know. Heterosexuality maybe the only right sexual orientation for whatever reason.

However, you can't lump everything else together and just call it equally wrong. That's why I'm trying to get you to see the difference in sexual acts and sexual orientations. That's why I said if you believe this, homosexuality = pedophilia then you should believe this as well, heterosexuality = pedophilia. Because a man can have sex with both a female child and male child. Whether you believe homosexuality is wrong is fine but it doesn't equal any other sexual act, because those sexual acts you describe can be committed by heterosexuals.

I hope that cleared it up a bit.

Dolphan7
06-18-2008, 06:12 PM
I hope that cleared it up a bit.I have already stated that I don't view homosexuality the same as pedophilia. And here I am stating it again. But that is just me. God obviously views it differently, and we should just leave it at that.

Dolphan7
06-18-2008, 06:49 PM
The point of the study was that there is evidence of biological design differences between people who are attracted to different sexes. If you want to say that was God's screw up then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.I am not saying it was God's screw up at all. If anything it is mankind who screws up.

The research didn't conclude it was "design differences", just observable differences.

This research indicates a difference between a hetero man and a gay man, but it does not indicate nor prove that this difference is inborn. We know that we can trigger certain parts of the brain through vision, touch, smell, hearing, taste or other stimulus. This is no different. I think behavior can effect parts of the brain just like it does with an artist.

You think artists are born that way, or do you think that they learned it from childbirth? Is there an art gene? Is there a smart gene for that matter? Are people born intelligent? Or do they learn from childbirth?

Blackocrates
06-18-2008, 07:07 PM
I have already stated that I don't view homosexuality the same as pedophilia. And here I am stating it again. But that is just me. God obviously views it differently, and we should just leave it at that.

I see where you said that, but then you kept comparing the two. But like you said we'll just leave it at that.

Dolphan7
06-18-2008, 08:58 PM
I see where you said that, but then you kept comparing the two. But like you said we'll just leave it at that.
Just for giggles - I would assume that your position on gay marriage would be the same for polygamists too right? I mean what is good for one group, should be just as good for another right?

Consenting adults who love each other.

Right?

Blackocrates
06-18-2008, 09:20 PM
Just for giggles - I would assume that your position on gay marriage would be the same for polygamists too right? I mean what is good for one group, should be just as good for another right?

Consenting adults who love each other.

Right?

Nope, I personally believe a state should have civil unions between two consenting adults. Meaning both heterosexual and homosexual couples should only be able to enter into a civil union, with regards to a government contract. I believe only God can marry.

WSE
06-19-2008, 12:43 AM
Just for giggles - I would assume that your position on gay marriage would be the same for polygamists too right? I mean what is good for one group, should be just as good for another right?

Consenting adults who love each other.

Right?

I know you didnt ask me, but I still feel compelled to apply

Polygamy as a concept- nothing wrong with it. Why should I care if a consenting man and consenting women find it ok for a man to have multiple wives?

of course the problem with this is that it is not the same in practice- In a lot of cases, it is not between consenting adults, its between a power male and underage females. It affects innocents, and thats where it is wrong- Not the concept itself.

rafael
06-19-2008, 01:02 AM
I am not saying it was God's screw up at all. If anything it is mankind who screws up.

The research didn't conclude it was "design differences", just observable differences.

This research indicates a difference between a hetero man and a gay man, but it does not indicate nor prove that this difference is inborn. We know that we can trigger certain parts of the brain through vision, touch, smell, hearing, taste or other stimulus. This is no different. I think behavior can effect parts of the brain just like it does with an artist.

You think artists are born that way, or do you think that they learned it from childbirth? Is there an art gene? Is there a smart gene for that matter? Are people born intelligent? Or do they learn from childbirth?

No, I don't think it's anything like artistic ability. I think attraction is not something that is learned. I think it's something that your brain will automatically develop.

Layfield
06-19-2008, 05:37 AM
I believe that people are born with tendencies like homosexuality or pedophilia. People usually have a traumatic event in their life that brought it on. A lot of times someone is abused as a kid by an uncle or some other male and the kid grows up as a homosexual. There is nothing wrong with the fact that he is gay, but there is a reason that he is what he is. People who like children also have that feeling as a result of something major that happened when the kid was younger like being molested by an adult and so the kid learned the behavior.

Now even though homosexuality and pedophilia have similar origins homosexuality is ok but pedophilia will land you jail time. And why is that? Well homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. Two consensual adults of the same sex doesn't make anyone worse off. However when a kid is being forced to have sex with an adult there may be major repercussions later in life. People are more likely to be an abuser if they have already been abused and they are just messed up. That is why homosexuality is viewed as less of a sin than pedophilia.

Now there are other sexual orientations like bestiality and weird fetishes. Bestiality I promise you isn't good for the animal. No animal is gonna want inter special love under any reasonable normal circumstances and people don't like the mistreating of animals. We have many animal rights groups in this country and they we wouldn't hear the end of it if it were ok to have sex with dogs.

People shouldn't be able to say that they are just attracted to whatever they are attracted to and therefore sex with it is ok because in most situations someone loses out and if someone loses out then those people should just hold there urges in and not do anything. However when, in like the instance of homosexuality, no one will be hurt as a result than I say go for it. There should not be restrictions on homosexuality like there are on pedophilia; and making gay marriage legal wont create some insane chain of events when people start dating goats and old men marry twelve year olds.

Homosexuality is different than any other weird orientation because no one is hurt. In every other instance there is someone that loses out and ends up being a victim as a result.

Dolphan7
06-19-2008, 12:35 PM
Nope, I personally believe a state should have civil unions between two consenting adults. Meaning both heterosexual and homosexual couples should only be able to enter into a civil union, with regards to a government contract. I believe only God can marry.
Interesting. Never heard that before. Thanks!

Dolphan7
06-19-2008, 01:00 PM
I believe that people are born with tendencies like homosexuality or pedophilia. People usually have a traumatic event in their life that brought it on. A lot of times someone is abused as a kid by an uncle or some other male and the kid grows up as a homosexual. There is nothing wrong with the fact that he is gay, but there is a reason that he is what he is. People who like children also have that feeling as a result of something major that happened when the kid was younger like being molested by an adult and so the kid learned the behavior.

Now even though homosexuality and pedophilia have similar origins homosexuality is ok but pedophilia will land you jail time. And why is that? Well homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. Two consensual adults of the same sex doesn't make anyone worse off. However when a kid is being forced to have sex with an adult there may be major repercussions later in life. People are more likely to be an abuser if they have already been abused and they are just messed up. That is why homosexuality is viewed as less of a sin than pedophilia.

Now there are other sexual orientations like bestiality and weird fetishes. Bestiality I promise you isn't good for the animal. No animal is gonna want inter special love under any reasonable normal circumstances and people don't like the mistreating of animals. We have many animal rights groups in this country and they we wouldn't hear the end of it if it were ok to have sex with dogs.

People shouldn't be able to say that they are just attracted to whatever they are attracted to and therefore sex with it is ok because in most situations someone loses out and if someone loses out then those people should just hold there urges in and not do anything. However when, in like the instance of homosexuality, no one will be hurt as a result than I say go for it. There should not be restrictions on homosexuality like there are on pedophilia; and making gay marriage legal wont create some insane chain of events when people start dating goats and old men marry twelve year olds.

Homosexuality is different than any other weird orientation because no one is hurt. In every other instance there is someone that loses out and ends up being a victim as a result.Good post. Just a couple questions. You say homosexuality, and other sexual desires, are inborn, yet you cite abuse in childhood - and hereis the question - as a catalyst? Or are you saying that the abuse begins the behavior?

I agree that in many cases childhood experience, whether good or bad, effects ones sexuality. I know men that were abused (they don't call it that) by their older sisters, who were also just children at the time, who grow up with a sexual desire toward children. These same men also have confessed homosexual desires, yet can find no history of exposure in their childhood. Were they born a pedophile, or gay? or straight? Could the abuse with the sister have opened them to all sorts of sexual ideas that they weren't able to understand or handle? I think so.

I think we are sexual creatures and I also think that that takes great responsibility to manage and understand, and control. The younger we get our kids involved in sex and sexual subject (condoms in the classroom, reading books in gradeschool about gay couples etc...) the more we mess with something that shouldn't be messed with - and that is the age of innocence. It just seems like it is getting younger and younger.

Let me ask you another question - if the child was a willing and eager participant in sex with an adult, would that be ok with you? Becasue there are cases where this is true, just read the stories about female teachers having sex with underage boys as young as 13. By law that is illegal, but both parties consented willingly. You ok with that? My point is that you see pedophilia different than homosexuality, and I do to, but in the case of willing participants it does equate to the homosexual relationships of consenting individuals where no harm is done. Maybe we should consider pedophila's definition as the sexual abuse of an unwilling child. I bring this up because there are pedophile groups that seek to lower the age of sexual participation of minors. Check out NAMBLA on the internet.

As for Beastiality - a male dog humping anything is far from a victim. They will hump your leg and don't care!:lol: