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BAMAPHIN 22
06-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Religion in the USA has a new anthem.

No longer Give Me that Old Time Religion, now it's Don't Fence Me In.
Newly released data from a major survey finds that most U.S. adults range far from knowing or caring about the distinctive teachings of their professed faith.

They believe overwhelmingly (92%) in God and 58% say they pray at least once a day. But when it comes to specific religions — the teachings of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Roman Catholic Church or scores of other denominations — they're all over the map, finds the latest data from the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-06-23-pew-religions_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

rafael
06-23-2008, 04:58 PM
"You no longer have an alignment of affiliation, belief and behavior. Instead we find complexity, and diversity not only between religious communities but within them, as well. We find a high level of comfort with this diversity," says political scientist John Green, a senior fellow with the Pew Forum.

IMO this is a good sign. It seems that most of the wars fought throughout history were the result of one group telling another 'We're right and you're wrong'.

•78% overall say there are "absolute standards of right and wrong," but only 29% rely on their religion to delineate these standards. The majority (52%) turn to "practical experience and common sense," with 9% relying on philosophy and reason, and 5% on scientific information.

•74% say "there is a heaven, where people who have led good lives are eternally rewarded," but far fewer (59%) say there's a "hell, where people who have led bad lives and die without being sorry are eternally punished." Only evangelicals and Muslims are as likely to believe almost to the same degree in both.

•70%, including a majority of all major Christian and non-Christian religious groups except Mormons, agree that "many religions can lead to eternal life."

•68% say "there's more than one true way to interpret the teachings of my religion."

All of those stats above seem to point to an increase in tolerance and acceptance. If that philosophy ever extends to the Middle East things may eventually resolve themselves over there. I haven't seen a reason to believe that was even possible in a really long time.

Dolphan7
06-24-2008, 12:05 PM
Apostacy in the end times. This is no surprise. I have conversations with hard core Christians from my own church who espouse some of these unbiblical teachings. It is just a sign of the times I am afraid. The power of the secular world using media and science to change the hearts and minds of millions of people over just a single generation, or two, is sadening.

WSE
06-24-2008, 12:17 PM
"You no longer have an alignment of affiliation, belief and behavior. Instead we find complexity, and diversity not only between religious communities but within them, as well. We find a high level of comfort with this diversity," says political scientist John Green, a senior fellow with the Pew Forum.

IMO this is a good sign. It seems that most of the wars fought throughout history were the result of one group telling another 'We're right and you're wrong'.

•78% overall say there are "absolute standards of right and wrong," but only 29% rely on their religion to delineate these standards. The majority (52%) turn to "practical experience and common sense," with 9% relying on philosophy and reason, and 5% on scientific information.

•74% say "there is a heaven, where people who have led good lives are eternally rewarded," but far fewer (59%) say there's a "hell, where people who have led bad lives and die without being sorry are eternally punished." Only evangelicals and Muslims are as likely to believe almost to the same degree in both.

•70%, including a majority of all major Christian and non-Christian religious groups except Mormons, agree that "many religions can lead to eternal life."

•68% say "there's more than one true way to interpret the teachings of my religion."

All of those stats above seem to point to an increase in tolerance and acceptance. If that philosophy ever extends to the Middle East things may eventually resolve themselves over there. I haven't seen a reason to believe that was even possible in a really long time.

good stats...

puts a smile on my face

things are starting to change for the better. Acceptance of others and their beliefs.

Dolphan7
06-24-2008, 12:38 PM
One World Religion!

Coming to a town near you!

WSE
06-24-2008, 12:43 PM
One World Religion!

Coming to a town near you!

well, this article still says people believe in religion

it also says, that at least in this country, people don't have the mindset of superiority and that all others who don't believe what they believe are going to hell.

thats a good thing. Let people believe what they believe. If this way of thinking spreads, it could stop a lot of wars in the future. So much crap has gone down in the past because of religion.

anyway, you probably know my favorite stat there. I always debate you on it, lol. People believe there should be an absolute moral code, but a higher percentage think it should be faced on common sense rather than a book. Love it.

Tetragrammaton
06-24-2008, 10:39 PM
It is a nice poll to see. People are becoming much more open minded.

ch19079
06-25-2008, 02:38 PM
It may lead to tolerance and acceptance between religions, as long as the religions include a belief in god and an afterlife. Which wouldnt really do much for those who dont believe in god.

The poll only showed the similarities in general concepts, not about how much they liked or even accepted others beliefs.

I would be interested to see a "poll" about how members of the major religions felt about members of other major religions and specifically those who dont belive in god at all. That will really show their tolerance (or lack of it).

emeraldfin
06-26-2008, 05:19 AM
You know people seem to think that this turning away from religion is a good thing, however there is one issue people seem to overlook and that is what the church teaches about everyday life and how we should live our lives.

People seem to condemn religions based on there dogma, however they dont look at what it teaches to people morally and who they should be. Religion IMO is a good thing if it teaches its members to forgive, be tolerent, honest and love. For me any religion that tells its members to behave like this is a good thing.

Dolphan7
06-26-2008, 12:07 PM
I think it is interesting to note the difference between a religion being intolerant, and a person following that religion to be intolerant.

Case in point the religion of Islam is very intolerant to unbelievers, yet there are millions of muslims who are tolerant toward unbelievers.

Same with Christianity. The religion itself is intolerant to any belief other than it's own, yet there are millions of christians who try to reach out and help those in need no matter their beliefs. they believe people have the right to choose for themselves.

Yes yes yes there are those in both religions that are very intolerant no doubt.

I just think that when we dumb down or water down our morals, the end result isn't as good as what we had to begin with. When we attempt to dictate our own morals down the slippery downward spiral of change, there really is no stopping point. Where will we be in 100 years? I shudder to think.

rafael
06-26-2008, 12:59 PM
You know people seem to think that this turning away from religion is a good thing, however there is one issue people seem to overlook and that is what the church teaches about everyday life and how we should live our lives.

People seem to condemn religions based on there dogma, however they dont look at what it teaches to people morally and who they should be. Religion IMO is a good thing if it teaches its members to forgive, be tolerent, honest and love. For me any religion that tells its members to behave like this is a good thing.

Teaching and discussing morality is a good thing however in my experience most of the religions (except for Buddism and Hinduism) tend to teach that if you don't believe in their god, in their way then you are a bad person and will go to hell. I think that's what people are rebelling against. Most thinking people believe that they can read the bible, the torah or whatever and use their real world experiences to make their own interpretations. I certainly don't believe that our religious leaders have any exclusive or greater understanding of morality than I do.

ch19079
06-26-2008, 02:15 PM
You know people seem to think that this turning away from religion is a good thing, however there is one issue people seem to overlook and that is what the church teaches about everyday life and how we should live our lives.

People seem to condemn religions based on there dogma, however they dont look at what it teaches to people morally and who they should be. Religion IMO is a good thing if it teaches its members to forgive, be tolerent, honest and love. For me any religion that tells its members to behave like this is a good thing.

Religion does teach their members how to behave and act, mostly to the benifit of society in general, and has been a major factor in forming civilizations for millions of years.

This may be a little off topic but, do people have to be afraid of an unseen god just to keep them from breaking the law? That may have been the case thousands of years ago, but do people still need their morals/laws hidden in a "message from god" to be obeyed?

I do not believe that our civilization would fall just becuase the people stopped beliving in an unseen god. Thats what laws are for.

Dolphan7
06-26-2008, 03:44 PM
Religion does teach their members how to behave and act, mostly to the benifit of society in general, and has been a major factor in forming civilizations for millions of years.

This may be a little off topic but, do people have to be afraid of an unseen god just to keep them from breaking the law? That may have been the case thousands of years ago, but do people still need their morals/laws hidden in a "message from god" to be obeyed?

I do not believe that our civilization would fall just becuase the people stopped beliving in an unseen god. Thats what laws are for.If it is the truth, You bet!

ABrownLamp
06-26-2008, 06:41 PM
I think it is interesting to note the difference between a religion being intolerant, and a person following that religion to be intolerant.

Case in point the religion of Islam is very intolerant to unbelievers, yet there are millions of muslims who are tolerant toward unbelievers.

Same with Christianity. The religion itself is intolerant to any belief other than it's own, yet there are millions of christians who try to reach out and help those in need no matter their beliefs. they believe people have the right to choose for themselves.

Yes yes yes there are those in both religions that are very intolerant no doubt.

I just think that when we dumb down or water down our morals, the end result isn't as good as what we had to begin with. When we attempt to dictate our own morals down the slippery downward spiral of change, there really is no stopping point. Where will we be in 100 years? I shudder to think.


IMO people 100 years from now will shudder to think about living life in 2008. Just like I cant imagine how awful living in 1908 must have been. Things are certainly better now. Although under the current admin and weak congress i cant say its better today than it was 10 years ago.

Is that the era of "better times" you were referring to? Under Clinton?

Dolphan7
06-27-2008, 01:53 PM
IMO people 100 years from now will shudder to think about living life in 2008. Just like I cant imagine how awful living in 1908 must have been. Things are certainly better now. Although under the current admin and weak congress i cant say its better today than it was 10 years ago.

Is that the era of "better times" you were referring to? Under Clinton?
ABL long time no hear from!

I see your point, but I was referring to going into the future and wondering where we will be, not looking at the past and knowing how far we have come, or digressed.

I think people or less moral today that let's say in the 1950's, with few exceptions - obviously race relations then hadn't been achieved yet.

ih8brady
06-28-2008, 04:41 AM
ABL long time no hear from!

I see your point, but I was referring to going into the future and wondering where we will be, not looking at the past and knowing how far we have come, or digressed.

I think people or less moral today that let's say in the 1950's, with few exceptions - obviously race relations then hadn't been achieved yet.

Let's see...women were treated like sex toys who ought to shut up and keep their legs spread, gays were discriminated against and treated like the Elephant Man by the medical community, the dark ages of McCarthy was in full swing, and let's not forget that a significant portion of the WASP dominated country was against Kennedy simply because of his sect of Christianity. Sounds like a moral Utopia.

emeraldfin
06-28-2008, 08:49 AM
Let's see...women were treated like sex toys who ought to shut up and keep their legs spread, gays were discriminated against and treated like the Elephant Man by the medical community, the dark ages of McCarthy was in full swing, and let's not forget that a significant portion of the WASP dominated country was against Kennedy simply because of his sect of Christianity. Sounds like a moral Utopia.


Dude you cant blame the errors of civalisation on religion. The reason things like what you stated dont happen any more is because mankind has evovled/developed over time. You cannot blame the errors/actions of certain people on an entire race of people. If you do you hold that prejuduce over them for the rest of your life, which you then pass on to your kids.

For instance in Ireland, it is customery for a Irish Catholic to hate British Protestants for what happend decades ago. That hatred is brewed from ignorance, not religion.

Dolphan7
06-28-2008, 12:27 PM
Let's see...women were treated like sex toys who ought to shut up and keep their legs spread, gays were discriminated against and treated like the Elephant Man by the medical community, the dark ages of McCarthy was in full swing, and let's not forget that a significant portion of the WASP dominated country was against Kennedy simply because of his sect of Christianity. Sounds like a moral Utopia.
As individuals I believe they were more moral in the 50's than today.

In the fifities mariage was a coveneant between a loving man and women, whom the children used as role models, of which there were plenty of them at the time. I don't know where you get the idea they were treated as sex toys, but I would make that argument in a second for the way we treat women in TODAYS world!

Homosexuality was considered a sin and was thought of as such. It wasn't promoted, nor was any other sinful behavior like alcoholism, sex outside of marriage, promiscuity. There was a healthy respect for authority and it was instilled in our kids. People prayed at dinner time, an fact there was such a thing as dinner time back then.

Compare that to the generations of kids we are raising today.



Stroll down one of our finest achievements in education. The American High School:

The F word is used as every part of speech, in every classroom in every hall. And it is considered a badge of honor to cuss.
Look at the blatant disrespect for authority in the schools. I am surprised that the teachers can take it, it is becoming a dangerous and thankless job.
There is a blatant lack of respect for personal property and for their own bodies. Tattoos, piercing etc..
Sex outside of marriage is something that is sought after and is considered a badge of honor among young males, and even among females. Thank you women’s lib.
Teen drug and alcohol abuse is rampant. Once again a badge of honor.
Teen pregnancy and thus abortion very common place. Where once it was shameful, now is "Oh well whatever". We teach them not to value life.
How many of these kids are from broken families, this is due to the high rate of divorce among their parents. Once a proud institution it now is being threatened from within and now by the homosexual agenda.
Teen suicide is increasing. Have we not provided enough hope in our children that they wouldn't resort to such a devastating end? Take out the purpose for living and this is what you get. We teach them there is no hope, no purpose and life has no value or meaning.
Everyone has to express their opinion, and back it up with brute force. This suppresses free thought and speech and intimidates those who aren’t as big and strong, making opposing viewpoints impossible. This is intolerance. Gone are the days when people could just agree to disagree.
Our children are selfish. It is all about them and what they want. Very materialistic. Ipods and cellphones define this generation. And try to take one away from them is like inciting a riot. It is their right!
These kids are obese. We took away exercise and going outside and replaced it with computers and Nintendo and Xbox. And we feed them a diet of high fat and calories.
What about the test scores as compared to the rest of the world. We once dominated in all categories. Today our kids need calculators or cash registers to add and subtract. And spelling and grammar and expression are much to be desired. Where once we said “ My dearly beloved Oh how I long for the day when I can cast my glance upon you and smell the freshness of your beauty like the smell of the flowers on a new spring day”….to this……Come here B**ch I want to **** you. Thank you rap music and that whole culture. You have dumbed down our society.



Yeah we are much better off now. Right!

rafael
06-28-2008, 12:33 PM
Dude you cant blame the errors of civalisation on religion. The reason things like what you stated dont happen any more is because mankind has evovled/developed over time. You cannot blame the errors/actions of certain people on an entire race of people. If you do you hold that prejuduce over them for the rest of your life, which you then pass on to your kids.

For instance in Ireland, it is customery for a Irish Catholic to hate British Protestants for what happend decades ago. That hatred is brewed from ignorance, not religion.

Most religions make that worse not better. They separate people. Too often they preach "My truth is the only truth and if you don't follow my truth you're going to hell and/or are an immoral person." I personally don't believe God is that intolerant.

So while I agree that we shouldn't hold on to prejudice, we also shouldn't ignore the same divisive rhetoric being used now.