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FinFatale
09-08-2008, 11:16 AM
The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 11:33 AM
So?

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 11:43 AM
Obama's training program described as 'Big Brother'
Critic says plan would herd 'American youth into government-funded re-education camps'

Posted: September 06, 2008
11:45 pm Eastern

"The tax-funded Chicago organization cited as a probable model for programs to integrate youth into the social and political world under an Obama tenure in the White House is the epitome of "Big Brother" that shovels impressionable youth through a course of brainwashing, according to critics."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74462
I think we in America have enough Big Brother crap going on.

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 11:47 AM
Michelle Obama is not running for office. Sarah Palin, whose church seeks to "re-educate" homosexuals, is.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Michelle Obama is not running for office. Sarah Palin, whose church seeks to "re-educate" homosexuals, is.


"The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said "
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700

I am fully aware that Michelle Obama isn't running for office. Senator Obama however is.
As far as Govenor's Palin's intentions that you have mentioned do you have a link??? or reference you could post where she is advocating making her ideals a fully funded national program, if so please post. I would appreciate it...thanks

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 12:42 PM
Michelle Obama is not running for office. Sarah Palin, whose church seeks to "re-educate" homosexuals, is.

http://www.lovewonout.com/questions/ this is the convention that the Wasilla Bible Church is supporting, doesn't seem like a " re-education " to me.
there are several questions they answer there also.




Are you here to "cure" gays?
Absolutely not. The only time you’ll ever hear the word “cure” used in relation to our event is by those who oppose Love Won Out. They also like to claim we want to “fix” or “convert” gays and lesbians and that we believe people can “pray away the gay.” Such glib characterizations ignore the complex series of factors that can lead to same-sex attractions; they also mischaracterize our mission. We exist to help men and women dissatisfied with living homosexually understand that same-sex attractions can be overcome. It is not easy, but it is possible, as evidenced by the thousands of men and women who have walked this difficult road successfully.

ohall
09-08-2008, 12:45 PM
http://www.lovewonout.com/questions/ this is the convention that the Wasilla Bible Church is supporting, doesn't seem like a " re-education " to me.
there are several questions they answer there also.

It's just more LIB spin from another one of our IND thinkers around here.

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 12:54 PM
You can look one forum up, Bamaphin posted a link about the desire of her church to promote the converting of homosexuals. Also, that is from CBS, not some Christian site that you posted.

And why did you bold the name Obama? Michelle shares the name.

I don't let editorials tell me what to believe. If there is a report about this, I would be interested.

When the Alaskan Independence thing came out about Palin, I expressed concern. When it was revealed it was her husband and not her, I said it was a non-issue. Same thing here.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 12:56 PM
You can look one forum up, Bamaphin posted a link about the desire of her church to promote homosexuals. Also, that is from CBS, not some Christian site that you posted.

And why did you bold the name Obama? Michelle shares the name.

I don't let editorials tell me what to believe. If there is a report about this, I would be interested.

When the Alaskan Independence thing came out about Palin, I expressed concern. When it was revealed it was her husband and not her, I said it was a non-issue. Same thing here.


???????????????????

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 01:02 PM
You can look one forum up, Bamaphin posted a link about the desire of her church to promote homosexuals. Also, that is from CBS, not some Christian site that you posted.

And why did you bold the name Obama? Michelle shares the name.

I don't let editorials tell me what to believe. If there is a report about this, I would be interested.

When the Alaskan Independence thing came out about Palin, I expressed concern. When it was revealed it was her husband and not her, I said it was a non-issue. Same thing here.


"Focus on the Family, a national Christian fundamentalist organization, is conducting the Love Won Out Conference (http://www.lovewonout.com/) in Anchorage, about 30 miles from Wasilla. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/07/politics/main4423486.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Previous to my post regarding " some christian site " that you referred to, I read the article and it was infact in that article that I linked to Love Worn Out Conference.
I also noted in that article, posted by CBS , it was said that "Gay activists in Alaska said Palin has not worked actively against their interests, but early in her administration she supported a bill to overrule a court decision to block state benefits for gay partners of public employees.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 01:12 PM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74462

According to an editorial in Investor's Business Daily, (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700) Obama plans to use the non-profit, which is funded partly by the federal government and is featured on Obama's campaign website, as the model for a national service corps, called the "Universal Voluntary "

this is from the worldnetdaily article and explains why I bolded Obama in my previous post from the editorial........

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 01:16 PM
???????????????????

Typo, sorry.

And this is an editorial, still. I could find you editorials that say we never landed on the moon, Bush personally drank the blood of Iraqi civilians, and that Cheney has really been dead since 1998 and is a robot.

I could go to Newsmax or Huffington Post and find outlandish blogs from both sides. That is why I don't really want to listen to this one.

BlueFin
09-08-2008, 01:54 PM
Typo, sorry.

And this is an editorial, still. I could find you editorials that say we never landed on the moon, Bush personally drank the blood of Iraqi civilians, and that Cheney has really been dead since 1998 and is a robot.

I could go to Newsmax or Huffington Post and find outlandish blogs from both sides. That is why I don't really want to listen to this one.

I think the difference is, who's is actually paying for each one?

One is apparently government funded, one is not.

And yes, you can find all sorts of extreme editorials, the difference, as always, is whether any facts back them up, which in the case of the Obama pork program, seems to be a resounding YES!

ohall
09-08-2008, 01:55 PM
Typo, sorry.

And this is an editorial, still. I could find you editorials that say we never landed on the moon, Bush personally drank the blood of Iraqi civilians, and that Cheney has really been dead since 1998 and is a robot.

I could go to Newsmax or Huffington Post and find outlandish blogs from both sides. That is why I don't really want to listen to this one.

I believe you could!

Dolphan7
09-08-2008, 01:55 PM
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 02:01 PM
And yes, you can find all sorts of extreme editorials, the difference, as always, is whether any facts back them up, which in the case of the Obama pork program, seems to be a resounding YES!

Of course there are some. That is the brilliance of editorials. Include some facts, omit others, and strike.

The editorial mentions that members of the group are more likely to protest. That is a good thing. It means they are standing up for themselves and are getting involved.

This editorial is really reaching.

poornate
09-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Are you railing against a youth leadership initiative? Seriously?

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 02:19 PM
Are you railing against a youth leadership initiative? Seriously?

no, I am not " railing" . I am researching what this organization really is.
something wrong with looking into things like this??? or should I just buy blindly what their website advertises?????
sorry I like to research myself and make my decision. I posted the link, the thread being the name of the article because I found it interesting and though it would promote good discussion.
It also strikes me as odd that for some it's OK to RAIL against a 17 year old pregnant teen and her mom but it's not ok to look into government funded programs.:err:

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 02:25 PM
no, I am not " railing" . I am researching what this organization really is.
something wrong with looking into things like this??? or should I just buy blindly what their website advertises?????
sorry I like to research myself and make my decision. I posted the link, the thread being the name of the article because I found it interesting and though it would promote good discussion.
It also strikes me as odd that for some it's OK to RAIL against a 17 year old pregnant teen and her mom but it's not ok to look into government funded programs.:err:

You are missing the point.

This is someone's perspective of what the initiative stands for, nothing more.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 02:30 PM
You are missing the point.

This is someone's perspective of what the initiative stands for, nothing more.


I didn't miss any point. I am not just regarding this editorial. I am looking into the organization. I have made contact with three students two past and one present and asked for their prospective. I wouldn't base my pov on one or two articles. I do know however and it just isn't the " editorial" that says so that Senator Obama co founded this project. That is FACT. I also know that at least two of the students there have said they felt they were being brainwashed, I am far from finished.
Just wanted to let you know I didn't miss a point. I rarely do!, sometimes due to my language barrier I have to reread or I don't get the sarcasm I will admit that.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 02:58 PM
So, when I'm president, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year... and for all to perform 100 hours of service a year.
That's two hours a week. It's not a lot.
And by the time you graduate, though, it adds up. You will have done 17 weeks of service. And we can reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school levels, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service plans, and give school resources to offer new service opportunities.
At the community level, we'll develop public-private partnerships so students can serve more outside the classroom.


How is it a national voluntary program if attendance is mandatory?????

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=70160

I am not reference the article here, but the VIDEO this is Senator Obama giving his speech on this..........his words..........his face.........his voice.............

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 03:02 PM
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1658698-2,00.html

ohall
09-08-2008, 04:00 PM
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1658698-2,00.html

Buckle up little sister you know how DEM's treat smart women these days!

:)

LouPhinFan
09-08-2008, 04:12 PM
Doesn't a President have to get Congress approval for programs of this size? I'm guessing that Congress would seriously look at this program education ciriculum and any "brainwashing" would be exposed.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 04:15 PM
Doesn't a President have to get Congress approval for programs of this size? I'm guessing that Congress would seriously look at this program education ciriculum and any "brainwashing" would be exposed.


Yes I would think so. I am simply pointing out Senator's Obama's plan......but stranger things have happened in congress haven't they???

Dolphan7
09-08-2008, 04:19 PM
I don't have a problem with using what people have as extra and appropriating it for those who don't have enough, like in charitable giving. I don't have a problem with community service either, I think it is a wonderful idea.

What I do have a problem with is mandating it. Taxing the rich for the benefit of the poor and forcing kids into community service is not the right approach.

These should remain voluntary.

This is the difference between democrats and republicans.

Democrats don't think people will do these things on their own. So they try to force it.

Republicans feel that it is your time and your money to use it how you see fit.

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 04:28 PM
For a long time, community service has been required for most colleges. I don't see how Obama's plan is any different.

Dolphan7
09-08-2008, 04:32 PM
For a long time, community service has been required for most colleges. I don't see how Obama's plan is any different.Is that in exchange for tuition, or a condition of free money for college? Explain?

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 04:50 PM
For a long time, community service has been required for most colleges. I don't see how Obama's plan is any different.

I guess then Senator Obama isn't changing anything is he?
I know Maryland has a mandate program in the works, and is the only state so far to implete it in highschool.......but that doesn't make it right. How can one enjoy something that is FORCED on them???
I know I wouldn't.

would you mind listing a few of these " most " colleges you speak of. I would like to do somer reading on their mandate volunteer programs. thanks@

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 04:54 PM
ahh nevermind I found a couple......thank you though.

LouPhinFan
09-08-2008, 04:58 PM
For a long time, community service has been required for most colleges. I don't see how Obama's plan is any different.

What colleges are you talking about? I am unaware of any major college that requires community service of its students.

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Okay, I will clarify. High school advisors highly recommend that students put community service on their transcript. Bright Futures, the Florida scholarship for students, requires community service. So it is not mandatory, but very necessary.

Dolphan7
09-08-2008, 05:53 PM
Okay, I will clarify. High school advisors highly recommend that students put community service on their transcript. Bright Futures, the Florida scholarship for students, requires community service. So it is not mandatory, but very necessary.As it should be, voluntary.

Obama suggest's it be mandatory. You ok with that?

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 05:59 PM
As it should be, voluntary.

Obama suggest's it be mandatory. You ok with that?

When did Obama suggest this? FinFatale's quote didn't seem to suggest it. I wouldn't have a problem for it if it was required for public school students just like I don't have a problem that they have to take physical education.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 06:10 PM
When did Obama suggest this? FinFatale's quote didn't seem to suggest it. I wouldn't have a problem for it if it was required for public school students just like I don't have a problem that they have to take physical education.

"So, when I'm president, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year... and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year.
That's two hours a week. It's not a lot.
And by the time you graduate, though, it adds up. You will have done 17 weeks of service. And we can reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school levels, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service plans, and give school resources to offer new service opportunities." national plan........
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69960

i posted this previously....

MDFINFAN
09-08-2008, 10:21 PM
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700

You do know who this site is..right.. this isn't exactly a sane site, this is like the huffington post..the other way..

So it's basically their way of campaigning for McCain..

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 10:28 PM
You do know who this site is..right.. this isn't exactly a sane site, this is like the huffington post..the other way..

So it's basically their way of campaigning for McCain..

Yes, I realize that , that is why I went to Obama's website for one, and a few others to see what this national volunteer things was about.
but thanks, it's so hard anymore when you hit on a site you have to see who runs it, who owns it............BUT not everything on those sites can be discounted I just think you have to look into things more, for me anyway............

Tetragrammaton
09-08-2008, 10:32 PM
"So, when I'm president, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year... and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year.
That's two hours a week. It's not a lot.
And by the time you graduate, though, it adds up. You will have done 17 weeks of service. And we can reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school levels, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service plans, and give school resources to offer new service opportunities." national plan........
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69960

i posted this previously....

I don't see how that is mandatory. When I read that, I think he has a goal to have in place a program for students to do it if they want to. I don't see students with wealthy parents or students who aren't going to college being forced into it.

FinFatale
09-08-2008, 10:36 PM
I don't see how that is mandatory. When I read that, I think he has a goal to have in place a program for students to do it if they want to. I don't see students with wealthy parents or students who aren't going to college being forced into it.


I do believe, imo, that once the schools aren't afforded funding for certain things unless their students participate you will see it as it in now in Maryland, the only state doing this and for that reason.....become mandatory..........I had another article too but it's on my laptop, I will have to find it and post it.........I just really feel that anything that is not heartfelt is just that not heartfelt and once an agenda is met it become so meaningless......for me anyway.

ih8brady
09-09-2008, 12:28 AM
Who cares about Michelle Obama? For one, she isn't running for office...Barack is. Secondly, she is one of the muslim Huessein Obama's many wives so BFD.

ih8brady
09-09-2008, 12:34 AM
Obama is wrong, if and only if, he is suggesting mandatory service. The 13th Amendment is one of the finest achievements ever by this country, and it clearly and strictly prohibits forced service save for punishment.

Tetragrammaton
09-09-2008, 12:37 AM
Obama is wrong, if and only if, he is suggesting mandatory service. The 13th Amendment is one of the finest achievements ever by this country, and it clearly and strictly prohibits forced service save for punishment.

This would be my position.

I have no problem with grants offered for community service, however. It is a great way to help improve our community and give young people an education. We need it.

Dolphan7
09-09-2008, 02:07 AM
If there is a quid pro quo then it isn't mandatory, but more like a contract. Each side gets what they want out of the deal. I have no problem with that.

Education for free for some value to the community.

As long as there is no indoctrination going on. We have enough of that in our public schools already.

poornate
09-09-2008, 07:30 AM
If there is a quid pro quo then it isn't mandatory, but more like a contract. Each side gets what they want out of the deal. I have no problem with that.

Education for free for some value to the community.

As long as there is no indoctrination going on. We have enough of that in our public schools already.

A few things...

07... When was the last tyime you were in a public school? I am curious as to what indocrination is going on there...

The second thing is... many states have required community service to graduate for years... This is nothing new... and I have no problem with it being mandatory either... It exposes students to new experiences and opens up the learning process to what they become involved in... i knbow my brother repaired computers for donation for his Virginia MANDATORY community service... 50 hours, as i recall... I don't think they do it anymore... that's a shame... He had to do it 9-10 yewars ago to graduate high school....

FinFatale
09-09-2008, 01:14 PM
If there is a quid pro quo then it isn't mandatory, but more like a contract. Each side gets what they want out of the deal. I have no problem with that.

Education for free for some value to the community.

As long as there is no indoctrination going on. We have enough of that in our public schools already.

I think if this system was put into place under the guise of voluntary it wouldn't be long until the schools that didn't implete it wouldn't be getting the same fair funding as those that did..........doesn't that then make it mantatory perhaps without being upfront but...............you know what I mean?

Dolphan7
09-09-2008, 01:30 PM
A few things...

07... When was the last tyime you were in a public school? I am curious as to what indocrination is going on there...

The second thing is... many states have required community service to graduate for years... This is nothing new... and I have no problem with it being mandatory either... It exposes students to new experiences and opens up the learning process to what they become involved in... i knbow my brother repaired computers for donation for his Virginia MANDATORY community service... 50 hours, as i recall... I don't think they do it anymore... that's a shame... He had to do it 9-10 yewars ago to graduate high school....
That is a subject for another thread, and probably a completely different forum.

FinFatale
09-09-2008, 01:30 PM
Obama is wrong, if and only if, he is suggesting mandatory service. The 13th Amendment is one of the finest achievements ever by this country, and it clearly and strictly prohibits forced service save for punishment.


I agree.

The duty of serving is a matter of morality, and that is the province of the family, not the schools. I am sure that many parents want their kid's 'schools to encourage morality and virtue but we have a problem when it comes to the government's schools: because of taxation and compulsory attendance, they are virtual monopolies. Most people have to send their kids there. Now we are talking about imposing particular moral lessons on children, perhaps against parents' wishes. That's wrong in a free society.

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:00 PM
I agree.

The duty of serving is a matter of morality, and that is the province of the family, not the schools. I am sure that many parents want their kid's 'schools to encourage morality and virtue but we have a problem when it comes to the government's schools: because of taxation and compulsory attendance, they are virtual monopolies. Most people have to send their kids there. Now we are talking about imposing particular moral lessons on children, perhaps against parents' wishes. That's wrong in a free society.

Give it a break. Veiled references to school vouchers being a necessity in a "free" society don't go unnoticed. let me tell you something... for someone who always trumpets research, free-thinking, and not having made up their mind... you sure are indoctrinated... let me save you the time... Just vote for McCain... he is everything you want and support...

Service to your community and nation is not an issue of morality... it can be made compulsory... Service, or giving back to your locality, is honorable and should be encouraged... What a great way to broaden the horizons of children and expose them to new themes and elements within their community...

You disagree with compulsory school attendance as well? I hate to say it... but if school were not mandatory you would see the human resources of our nation severely degraded... That is a position that, unless you can present a strong argument, I can see no merit in...

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:04 PM
Give it a break. Veiled references to school vouchers being a necessity in a "free" society don't go unnoticed. let me tell you something... for someone who always trumpets research, free-thinking, and not having made up their mind... you sure are indoctrinated... let me save you the time... Just vote for McCain... he is everything you want and support...

Service to your community and nation is not an issue of morality... it can be made compulsory... Service, or giving back to your locality, is honorable and should be encouraged... What a great way to broaden the horizons of children and expose them to new themes and elements within their community...

You disagree with compulsory school attendance as well? I hate to say it... but if school were not mandatory you would see the human resources of our nation severely degraded... That is a position that, unless you can present a strong argument, I can see no merit in...

And what does that make you?

You want to tell everyone again Palin whores out her children every time she takes her children out on the stage?

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:05 PM
And what does that make you?

Informed, committed, and I make no bones about it....

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:07 PM
You want to tell everyone again Palin whores out her children every time she takes her children out on the stage?

Yes I can, if you'd like. She parades them like an alley pimp... anymore questions?

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:09 PM
Yes I can, if you'd like. She parades them like an alley pimp... anymore questions?

You act as if that were true it some how doesn't stick to your guy Obama as well? No I don't expect that you thought that through.

Again you just proved my point.

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:15 PM
Informed, committed, and I make no bones about it....

To the DEM agenda? I agree. This however does not make you unbiased. It makes you biased.

You go after her because she did research and she ended up on the other side of the issues. For you to imply she is where she is because she really doesn't do research is insulting to say the least.

This is the problem with LIB's. They think their research, their opinion is the only opinion to have and anyone that disagrees with them then those ppl simply must be stupid.

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:17 PM
You act as if that were true it some how doesn't stick to your guy Obama as well? No I don't expect that you thought that through.

Again you just proved my point.

It doesn't pertain... It doesn't pertain to any of the other three people primarily involved in this election... Biden and McCain do not specifically flaunt their sons military involvement... definitely haven't told the world where and in what group they are serving (which could obviously make their CHILDREN a greater target)... I can't even name, well, any of the candidates children... I think one of Obama's daughter's is named Sasha... And I know that McCain has at least one (two?) adopted daughters...That's about it...But Palin? I can name Piper and Trig and Bristol off of the top of my head... Palin cuts aid to families in Alaska with handicapped children... until she has one to care for... then she positions her poor baby on camera and says that she is an advocate for children with disabilities? Please... political ambition before all... she pimps her family...

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:21 PM
It doesn't pertain... It doesn't pertain to any of the other three people primarily involved in this election... Biden and McCain do not specifically flaunt their sons military involvement... definitely haven't told the world where and in what group they are serving (which could obviously make their CHILDREN a greater target)... I can't even name, well, any of the candidates children... I think one of Obama's daughter's is named Sasha... And I know that McCain has at least one (two?) adopted daughters...That's about it...But Palin? I can name Piper and Trig and Bristol off of the top of my head... Palin cuts aid to families in Alaska with handicapped children... until she has one to care for... then she positions her poor baby on camera and says that she is an advocate for children with disabilities? Please... political ambition before all... she pimps her family...

lol of course it doesn't.

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:23 PM
To the DEM agenda? I agree. This however does not make you unbiased. It makes you biased.

You go after her because she did research and she ended up on the other side of the issues. For you to imply she is where she is because she really doesn't do research is insulting to say the least.

This is the problem with LIB's. They think their research, their opinion is the only opinion to have and anyone that disagrees with them then those ppl simply must be stupid.

I go after her STATEMENTS that she is "on the fence" and still "investigating" when she probably only follows you in terms of adhering to and posting Neo-Con dogma... and I am implying that her "research" consists of Republican talking points or attach stances on any progressive view.. I don't care what side of the fence people end up on... I straddle it... there are places I can rest with most people on here, depending on the issue... i do care about people just being what they are... You have no apologies ready for your views do you? there... i know what you are and what you will believe and say on almost every issue... no surprises from O'Hall!!! I am just saying that she should do the same... instead of hiding behind some shroud of undecided voter...

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:29 PM
I go after her STATEMENTS that she is "on the fence" and still "investigating" when she probably only follows you in terms of adhering to and posting Neo-Con dogma... and I am implying that her "research" consists of Republican talking points or attach stances on any progressive view.. I don't care what side of the fence people end up on... I straddle it... there are places I can rest with most people on here, depending on the issue... i do care about people just being what they are... You have no apologies ready for your views do you? there... i know what you are and what you will believe and say on almost every issue... no surprises from O'Hall!!! I am just saying that she should do the same... instead of hiding behind some shroud of undecided voter...

Just as I do you. The difference is I don't go around saying I am an IND. I am a proud CON. Get it yet? You are going after her for the very same traits you show in every post you post on this MBoard.

There are quite a few of you out there. I find it laughable when one of you say, "but I'm an IND"

lol

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:41 PM
Just as I do you. The difference is I don't go around saying I am an IND. I am a proud CON. Get it yet? You are going after her for the very same traits you show in every post you post on this MBoard.

There are quite a few of you out there. I find it laughable when one of you say, "but I'm an IND"

lol

Well let's see... I am against raising minimum wage, abortion on demand, against gay marriage, against expanding gun laws, against inequality in the work place for non-union members... I am for grants to faith based organizations who serve the public and for grants to charitable organizations... I have no problem with discussing creationism as a theory right beside evolution... regardless of which I believe in.... and would actively support it as legislation that makes it permissible...

Sounds like the Democratic party line to me... I'm just not a dogmatic ideologue... You toss labels all you want... I know how nervous independents make party people...

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:47 PM
Well let's see... I am against raising minimum wage, abortion on demand, against gay marriage, against expanding gun laws, against inequality in the work place for non-union members... I am for grants to faith based organizations who serve the public and for grants to charitable organizations... I have no problem with discussing creationism as a theory right beside evolution... regardless of which I believe in.... and would actively support it as legislation that makes it permissible...

Sounds like the Democratic party line to me... I'm just not a dogmatic ideologue... You toss labels all you want... I know how nervous independents make party people...

Most CON's can tell you where they agree with DEM's as well. This doesn't make me a DEM.

We all have our IND ways, but I'm here to tell you, you do not come off as IND as you think you do. And because of that I found it quite odd you would go after someone who also claims to be an IND. Why shouldn't she get the benny from an IND like yourself?

I can see if MD went after her. We all know where he stands. Oh wait, n/m.

Dolphan7
09-09-2008, 02:51 PM
:head2head:

poornate
09-09-2008, 02:56 PM
Most CON's can tell you where they agree with DEM's as well. This doesn't make me a DEM.

We all have our IND ways, but I'm here to tell you, you do not come off as IND as you think you do. And because of that I found it quite odd you would go after someone who also claims to be an IND. Why shouldn't she get the benny from an IND like yourself?

I can see if MD went after her. We all know where he stands. Oh wait, n/m.

I can't imagine anything that bothers me less than how you judge me... i just get tired of you dropping lulz and accusing everyone of being an adherent to this label or that label... I have voted for one, ONE Democrat for president out of three elections that have happened since I was old enough to vote... You wanna know why your party is dying? Bomb throwers like yourself... These things I listed above are no "little" differences... and you know it as well as I do... So? Slander and bash and drive the Centrists farther away... You want to know why I am so against McCain? He's a danger to this nation and my family... does it sound like i am often against him? Well... I am... That just means that i have considered what's at stake and made a choice... i don't pretend that I am not solidly behind Obama... because I am solidly behind him... but that doesn't mean that there are not BIG things that i disagree with him on... I'm just not able to pick a President based on what party he represents....

ohall
09-09-2008, 02:59 PM
I can't imagine anything that bothers me less than how you judge me... i just get tired of you dropping lulz and accusing everyone of being an adherent to this label or that label... I have voted for one, ONE Democrat for president out of three elections that have happened since I was old enough to vote... You wanna know why your party is dying? Bomb throwers like yourself... These things I listed above are no "little" differences... and you know it as well as I do... So? Slander and bash and drive the Centrists farther away... You want to know why I am so against McCain? He's a danger to this nation and my family... does it sound like i am often against him? Well... I am... That just means that i have considered what's at stake and made a choice... i don't pretend that I am not solidly behind Obama... because I am solidly behind him... but that doesn't mean that there are not BIG things that i disagree with him on... I'm just not able to pick a President based on what party he represents....

In short you are as IND as she is. No I don't expect you to see that. If someone is going to be bold enough to say I am an IND, they had better show it. If not they come off in a very bad way. You have shown no such thing, not even close. Thread after thread you align with the left.

And obviously it effects you in some way. That is why you continue to reply to my posts concerning this topic.

poornate
09-09-2008, 03:05 PM
It seems that the debated points that most often arise in here speak to my more liberal beliefs... I am pro-education... big time... I am against drilling... I am against Iraq.... i am for universal health care... Do you see a theme with me? Provide, inform, do no damage, assist, help, aid, diplomacy... these are where my beliefs lie... They are across the board... I would like to see a liberal belief you, or she, holds come out... you say that I am as Independent as she is... you're crazy... i gotta be honest... i don't think i have ever seen a post from either of you that strays from your party... Go ahead... Why don't you pick 5-6 BIG issues that you deviate away from what I expect from you on? I'm hitting refresh in anticipation....

Dolphan7
09-09-2008, 03:34 PM
Better yet, why don't we just stick to the thread topic.:up:

poornate
09-09-2008, 03:37 PM
So 07... You can "thank" O'Hall in every post along this line, through this entire conversation... But when i call him to task... we are encouraged to not stray? That doesn't seem very consistent to me...

Dolphan7
09-09-2008, 03:49 PM
So 07... You can "thank" O'Hall in every post along this line, through this entire conversation... But when i call him to task... we are encouraged to not stray? That doesn't seem very consistent to me...If you posted something I agreed with or liked, I would have thanked you.

My point is it is time to get back to the topic, enough is enough.

ih8brady
09-09-2008, 04:25 PM
Service to your community and nation is not an issue of morality... it can be made compulsory... Service, or giving back to your locality, is honorable and should be encouraged... What a great way to broaden the horizons of children and expose them to new themes and elements within their community...


Not if you follow the very terse and direct thirteenth amendment of the Constitution.


Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.



It says we are free from forced service from Uncle Sam, regardless of the alleged nobility of the government's plan.



Whatever happened to freedom of choice? Or just living in an open and free society? What little time I have to myself after working, I get to decide what to do with it. That's what it means to live in a free society.

ohall
09-09-2008, 04:33 PM
So 07... You can "thank" O'Hall in every post along this line, through this entire conversation... But when i call him to task... we are encouraged to not stray? That doesn't seem very consistent to me...

Sorry to go off topic, again, but you did nothing of the kind.

I correctly pointed out the hypocrisy of going after someone who calls herself an IND thinker when you also claim to be an IND thinker.

I would argue she has shown far more IND thinking than most so called IND thinkers around here. She constantly asks both sides to defend their POV, not just the DEM side.

FinFatale
09-09-2008, 04:41 PM
I go after her STATEMENTS that she is "on the fence" and still "investigating" when she probably only follows you in terms of adhering to and posting Neo-Con dogma... and I am implying that her "research" consists of Republican talking points or attach stances on any progressive view.. I don't care what side of the fence people end up on... I straddle it... there are places I can rest with most people on here, depending on the issue... i do care about people just being what they are... You have no apologies ready for your views do you? there... i know what you are and what you will believe and say on almost every issue... no surprises from O'Hall!!! I am just saying that she should do the same... instead of hiding behind some shroud of undecided voter...

I don't believe that I am the subject of this thread and find posts offensive that had made me such. Like every other American in this country I am entitled to my freedom of speech and my beliefs.
To accuse and libel others that use this forum is not the purpose of this forum.

FinFatale
09-09-2008, 05:51 PM
Give it a break. Veiled references to school vouchers being a necessity in a "free" society don't go unnoticed. let me tell you something... for someone who always trumpets research, free-thinking, and not having made up their mind... you sure are indoctrinated... let me save you the time... Just vote for McCain... he is everything you want and support...

Service to your community and nation is not an issue of morality... it can be made compulsory... Service, or giving back to your locality, is honorable and should be encouraged... What a great way to broaden the horizons of children and expose them to new themes and elements within their community...

You disagree with compulsory school attendance as well? I hate to say it... but if school were not mandatory you would see the human resources of our nation severely degraded... That is a position that, unless you can present a strong argument, I can see no merit in...


I did not say that I did or didn't mandate compulsory school attendance or my stance on either. I said that school attendance is mantatory in the public school system.

poornate
09-09-2008, 09:43 PM
Not if you follow the very terse and direct thirteenth amendment of the Constitution.




It says we are free from forced service from Uncle Sam, regardless of the alleged nobility of the government's plan.



Whatever happened to freedom of choice? Or just living in an open and free society? What little time I have to myself after working, I get to decide what to do with it. That's what it means to live in a free society.

I meant it as in the context of my post topic... compulsory for high school or college graduation... Not Joe Blow off of the street... a lot of schools have this policy and it is nothing but positive...