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View Full Version : Obama Slams Bush's War Strategy



BAMAPHIN 22
09-09-2008, 09:06 PM
Barack Obama (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/22/politics/main3193625.shtml) said President Bush isn't acting quickly or forcefully enough to get more U.S. forces into Afghanistan and out of Iraq.


Mr. Bush "is tinkering around the edges and kicking the can down the road to the next president" with his decision Tuesday to bring home only 8,000 combat and support troops from Iraq by February, said Obama, who hopes to be that next president.


Mr. Bush said a Marine battalion scheduled to be sent to Iraq in November will instead be deployed to Afghanistan, followed by an Army combat brigade early next year. In all, that would add 4,500 to 4,700 combat troops in Afghanistan (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/iraq/main4429590.shtml).

Less than two hours later, Obama went before reporters during a campaign stop in this Midwestern battleground to respond.


"His plan comes up short - it is not enough troops, not enough resources, with not enough urgency," Obama said. "The next president will inherit a status quo that is still unstable."


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/politics/main4432209.shtml

Dolphan7
09-09-2008, 09:20 PM
You can never satisfy everyone. Geesh!

If it was 25K it would be "Why not more?"

MDFINFAN
09-09-2008, 09:38 PM
You can never satisfy everyone. Geesh!

If it was 25K it would be "Why not more?"

especially us, huh?:wink:

ohall
09-09-2008, 09:59 PM
Someone should really tell Mr. Obama that America won the war in Iraq. He may not look so out of touch if he knew that.

MDFINFAN
09-09-2008, 10:07 PM
Someone should really tell Mr. Obama that America won the war in Iraq. He may not look so out of touch if he knew that.

Someone should tell Ohall it was a unnecessary war and cost us a whole lot of money and lives for what exactly? we don't know do we?

milldog
09-09-2008, 10:11 PM
Someone should really tell Mr. Obama that America won the war in Iraq. He may not look so out of touch if he knew that.

Oh yeah, what did we win? My brother was killed in Iraq. For what? Weapons of mass destruction....

milldog
09-09-2008, 10:24 PM
While I respect some of your opinions on here, I'm done! I don't know how many of you lost someone dearly to you. If you have, you have my sincere condolences. Some of you really don't get it and won't. For that, you've ruined this site for me and I'll never be back. How you can begin to justify is beyond me.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 10:49 PM
While I respect some of your opinions on here, I'm done! I don't know how many of you lost someone dearly to you. If you have, you have my sincere condolences. Some of you really don't get it and won't. For that, you've ruined this site for me and I'll never be back. How you can begin to justify is beyond me.

I've lost people close to me, plus my father suffers from PTSD from the war. You shouldn't let ignorant comments run you off. You're right some people just don't get it and they won't, it's some sort of political game to them.

I say ignore those that bother you, I'm sure they didn't know of your lose nor would they make light of it if they knew. A lot of us are quick to type little barbs without thinking of the consequences.

You have an unfortunate yet unique perspective of the war, you should share it. Don't let some foolish posts/posters run you off. It only lowers the level of the forum.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 10:51 PM
While I respect some of your opinions on here, I'm done! I don't know how many of you lost someone dearly to you. If you have, you have my sincere condolences. Some of you really don't get it and won't. For that, you've ruined this site for me and I'll never be back. How you can begin to justify is beyond me.

BTW, I'm truly sorry about your lose. This war blows my mind, so do the supporters.

jguig
09-09-2008, 10:56 PM
What did we win?

There is a democracy in one of the most vital parts of the Middle East where there was never before one. This is a part of the world that is hostile to the US and her interests. Now we have a friend for the future. History will show that the sacrifices of the lives there provided our country with with a greater sense of world security in a very hostile part of the world.

Furthermore, generations of Iraqis will now be free. They have been terrorized, murdered and raped by their government prior to us liberating them. Regardless if we entered Iraq on a false premise (and one universally agreed to by intelligence agencies of numerous countries), there is no doubt that the US has effectively changed the lives of millions of future Iraqis for the better.

While I sympathize with your loss and admire your brother's service and sacrifice, to wish death or such pain upon another individual and their family is uncontionable. It is the ultimate of hate speech and does not belong in this forum or out of this forum for that matter. You should be ashamed that you lowered yourself to say something so hateful and cruel. This site will be a better place if you stick to your comment and stay away.

phinfan3411
09-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Oh yeah, what did we win? My brother was killed in Iraq. For what? Weapons of mass destruction.... Hopefully you'll lose someone soon and I can tell you we won. F- off!

I was in the military, and take things like going to war VERY seriously. I did not (thankfully) lose anyone real close to me, my condolences to you, and your family.

I did not agree with us going to war (yes, and I am a conservative), but how many times do we have to bring that up? Doesn't really matter whether you were for, or against, were there, where do we go from here? That is the question, Ohall meant no malice in his statement, I think you should reconsider.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 11:07 PM
What did we win?

There is a democracy in one of the most vital parts of the Middle East where there was never before one. This is a part of the world that is hostile to the US and her interests. Now we have a friend for the future. History will show that the sacrifices of the lives there provided our country with with a greater sense of world security in a very hostile part of the world.

Furthermore, generations of Iraqis will now be free. They have been terrorized, murdered and raped by their government prior to us liberating them. Regardless if we entered Iraq on a false premise (and one universally agreed to by intelligence agencies of numerous countries), there is no doubt that the US has effectively changed the lives of millions of future Iraqis for the better.

While I sympathize with your loss and admire your brother's service and sacrifice, to wish death or such pain upon another individual and their family is uncontionable. It is the ultimate of hate speech and does not belong in this forum or out of this forum for that matter. You should be ashamed that you lowered yourself to say something so hateful and cruel. This site will be a better place if you stick to your comment and stay away.

Way to pile it on. :rolleyes:

His comment was made out of haste and understandable anger. I can see where he's coming from. I've actually had the same feelings about people. I've often wondered why good people have to die in a senseless war and idiots are still clamouring about how wonderful the war is. Time has softened my view though. I don't think he truly wishes death on anybody, he's just angry and he's lashing out. I can't blame him. But apparently you can. The site won't be a better place without him, I hope he changes his mind after he cools off.

The democracy you talk about isn't self sustaining, many would argue it's only a facade. The national interest you talk about is oil. Human sacrifice isn't worth money in the pockets of oil tycoons. All you have to do is follow the money and you see who's benefitted from this war so far and it's not the Iraqi people. I don't have the figures but it seems like we've killed a comparable amount of Iraqi's compared to Sadaam.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:10 PM
Someone should tell Ohall it was a unnecessary war and cost us a whole lot of money and lives for what exactly? we don't know do we?

For our freedom and to show the world we were no longer the Vietnam and Black Hawk down paper tiger.

Our freedom is always necessary and it's rarely cheap.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:11 PM
Oh yeah, what did we win? My brother was killed in Iraq. For what? Weapons of mass destruction.... Hopefully you'll lose someone soon and I can tell you we won. F- off!

Sorry for your loss.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:13 PM
What did we win?

There is a democracy in one of the most vital parts of the Middle East where there was never before one. This is a part of the world that is hostile to the US and her interests. Now we have a friend for the future. History will show that the sacrifices of the lives there provided our country with with a greater sense of world security in a very hostile part of the world.

Furthermore, generations of Iraqis will now be free. They have been terrorized, murdered and raped by their government prior to us liberating them. Regardless if we entered Iraq on a false premise (and one universally agreed to by intelligence agencies of numerous countries), there is no doubt that the US has effectively changed the lives of millions of future Iraqis for the better.

While I sympathize with your loss and admire your brother's service and sacrifice, to wish death or such pain upon another individual and their family is uncontionable. It is the ultimate of hate speech and does not belong in this forum or out of this forum for that matter. You should be ashamed that you lowered yourself to say something so hateful and cruel. This site will be a better place if you stick to your comment and stay away.

There's a reason why they rarely even talk about Iraq in the news any more.

Keep thinking we haven't won.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 11:17 PM
I did not agree with us going to war (yes, and I am a conservative), but how many times do we have to bring that up?

People that have lost something are going to keep bringing it up, and they should. This is what irks me about some people. They haven't lost anything so they say let's move on, let's talk about something else. While broken families sit there not able to move on. I'm still baffled at the amount of callousness of some conservatives.

I can't say this enough, many conservatives fly the flag, where the stars and stripes on shirts, put yellow ribbons on their cars as if they're making a difference. Then you have families that have to suffer the consequences of war and live with it forever when one of their loved one's dies. Then those same conservatives say their sorry for what happened, but let's move on. Let's not live in the past. To me it just goes to show that those that publically claim to support the troops really don't care.

To be fair, phinfan I used part of your quote to state my opinion. It comes off as if I'm talking about you, but I'm not. I apologize for the apparent attack, but it's meant to be a general opinion. When you asked how many times it needs to be brought up, that question sparked my response.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 11:20 PM
For our freedom and to show the world we were no longer the Vietnam and Black Hawk down paper tiger.

Our freedom is always necessary and it's rarely cheap.

Iraq never threatened our freedom in any way, so it wasn't about freedom. I don't understand the second part of your first sentence. So we went to war to show the world how big are muscles are? If so that's ridiculous and not worthy of one military death.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:23 PM
People that have lost something are going to keep bringing it up, and they should. This is what irks me about some people. They haven't lost anything so they say let's move on, let's talk about something else. While broken families sit there not able to move on. I'm still baffled at the amount of callousness of some conservatives.

I can't say this enough, many conservatives fly the flag, where the stars and stripes on shirts, put yellow ribbons on their cars as if they're making a difference. Then you have families that have to suffer the consequences of war and live with it forever when one of their loved one's dies. Then those same conservatives say their sorry for what happened, but let's move on. Let's not live in the past. To me it just goes to show that those that publically claim to support the troops really don't care.

To be fair, phinfan I used part of your quote to state my opinion. It comes off as if I'm talking about you, but I'm not. I apologize for the apparent attack, but it's meant to be a general opinion. When you asked how many times it needs to be brought up, that question sparked my response.

He was wrong to assume what you just did. You are both wrong. I know his loss, I know it well. However my anger is directed at the ppl that deserve it. To blame Bush while ignoring all the LIB's that supported the war at the time is simply an irrational thing to do.

It is beyond offensive to imply one man lied about the reasons to go to war without any evidence to prove such a sentiment. I don't care who you lost. That kind of irrational thinking is simply wrong. That kind of irrational thinking is what the left is making political money off of right now. It's sad to say the least IMO.

MDFINFAN
09-09-2008, 11:28 PM
What did we win?

There is a democracy in one of the most vital parts of the Middle East where there was never before one. This is a part of the world that is hostile to the US and her interests. Now we have a friend for the future. History will show that the sacrifices of the lives there provided our country with with a greater sense of world security in a very hostile part of the world.

Furthermore, generations of Iraqis will now be free. They have been terrorized, murdered and raped by their government prior to us liberating them. Regardless if we entered Iraq on a false premise (and one universally agreed to by intelligence agencies of numerous countries), there is no doubt that the US has effectively changed the lives of millions of future Iraqis for the better.

While I sympathize with your loss and admire your brother's service and sacrifice, to wish death or such pain upon another individual and their family is uncontionable. It is the ultimate of hate speech and does not belong in this forum or out of this forum for that matter. You should be ashamed that you lowered yourself to say something so hateful and cruel. This site will be a better place if you stick to your comment and stay away.

This is the misconception, there is nothing yet in Iraq, the gov't hasn't taken ownership of it's country yet...HEAR THIS, THERE'S 3 TRIBES, AND THEY've NEVER SETTLED ON HOW THE COUNTRY WILL RUN AND BE GOVERN. Unless someone can show me a hell of spin, that part of Iraq hasn't been fixed as of my writing this. The only thing in Iraq at this point is that it's less violent, not 100% violent free as we learn that 3 marines lost their lives today. I think that's as much as you can say until Iraq takes and run it's gov't without our present.. So there's no democracy, just a quasi democracy held together by our military. That's why we'll still there.. We don't know what Iraq will be in the long run..no one can predict that at this point, we, as americans only hope it'll be a democracy. So lets take it slow in saying what Iraq is, you're projecting what we as Americans want for them, they're not us and they have their own way of thinking.. I, like you hope for the best, but because they have different values than us, I leave room for the unexpected...remember religion drives their actions more than we think. They could be our allies for 10 years, then our enemy the next 10..

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 11:29 PM
He was wrong to assume what you just did. You are both wrong. I know his loss, I know it well. However my anger is directed at the ppl that deserve it. To blame Bush while ignoring all the LIB's that supported the war at the time is simply an irrational thing to do.

It is beyond offensive to imply one man lied about the reasons to go to war without any evidence to prove such a sentiment. I don't care who you lost. That kind of irrational thinking is simply wrong. That kind of irrational thinking is what the left is making political money off of right now. It's sad to say the least IMO.

I didn't assume anything, you're making stuff up. That's why I said some people, I was making a general statement it wasn't targetted at you or phinfan.

About the bolded part, that's obvious. Plus, it sort of proves my point even though I wasn't talking about you.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:35 PM
I didn't assume anything, you're making stuff up. That's why I said some people, I was making a general statement it wasn't targetted at you or phinfan.

About the bolded part, that's obvious. Plus, it sort of proves my point even though I wasn't talking about you.

What are you saying, man up son.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 11:40 PM
What are you saying, man up son.

'Manning up' has nothing to do with it, I said what I said. I'm not your son, so grow up and stop trying to instigate personal attacks. I'm heading off to bed so flex your internet muscles all you want, I'll respond tomorrow.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:44 PM
'Manning up' has nothing to do with it, I said what I said. I'm not your son, so grow up and stop trying to instigate personal attacks. I'm heading off to bed so flex your internet muscles all you want, I'll respond tomorrow.

When you call someone a LIAR, be man enough to use the word, son. If not you just come of as weak!

No Internet muscles here, but you sure act as if you have some. Next time don't make assumptions based on nothing.

MDFINFAN
09-09-2008, 11:45 PM
He was wrong to assume what you just did. You are both wrong. I know his loss, I know it well. However my anger is directed at the ppl that deserve it. To blame Bush while ignoring all the LIB's that supported the war at the time is simply an irrational thing to do.

It is beyond offensive to imply one man lied about the reasons to go to war without any evidence to prove such a sentiment. I don't care who you lost. That kind of irrational thinking is simply wrong. That kind of irrational thinking is what the left is making political money off of right now. It's sad to say the least IMO.

Ohall, I'm going to say this as kindly as I can, could it be you're who's wrong?
The president of the US is the CDR in Chief of our armed forces. It's at his direction that we go to war. The congress gave Bush the authority to use force...He didn't have to use it Ohall, it was never push on him. Aghan was a legit war, that country had the ppl in it that attacked us. Everything we've learn since his decision to go to Iraq has questions written all over it, and a lot of ppl are now talking. Every attempt to show you evidence of bad decision making and questionable decisions have been met with resistance, and you know it. Most think Bush lied to them about why we went to war, even Palin thought that part of it was about energy, and you know the evident to that statement. So no Ohall everyone doesn't believe as you, there a number of constitutional lawyers who think Bush can be impreached, again everyone doesn't believe as you. Because ppl don't agree with your opinion doesn't make them wrong. Evidence you've turn down, doesn't mean it's not evidence. That's for the law to decide. You have a difference of opinon Ohall, that doesn't make you right or wrong. I think you owe milldog an apology for not taking in the emotional state he's in in terms of losing a love one. You're a vet. of this board and should be the lead on this, as I've apologize to you, when you felt I've offended you, I think you should do the same for others.. We're still a phin family with different opinons on politics.

MDFINFAN
09-09-2008, 11:48 PM
hey guys, let not get too personal, I know the emotions are running high right now..but take a breath..while we encourage robust debate, we don't want it to get too personal..let's not push it to the limit, which is where you guys are...so let this serve as a warning..

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:53 PM
Ohall, I'm going to say this as kindly as I can, could it be you're who's wrong?
The president of the US is the CDR in Chief of our armed forces. It's at his direction that we go to war. The congress gave Bush the authority to use force...He didn't have to use it Ohall, it was never push on him. Aghan was a legit war, that country had the ppl in it that attacked us. Everything we've learn since his decision to go to Iraq has questions written all over it, and a lot of ppl are now talking. Every attempt to show you evidence of bad decision making and questionable decisions have been met with resistance, and you know it. Most think Bush lied to them about why we went to war, even Palin thought that part of it was about energy, and you know the evident to that statement. So no Ohall everyone doesn't believe as you, there a number of constitutional lawyers who think Bush can be impreached, again everyone doesn't believe as you. Because ppl don't agree with your opinion doesn't make them wrong. Evidence you've turn down, doesn't mean it's not evidence. That's for the law to decide. You have a difference of opinon Ohall, that doesn't make you right or wrong. I think you owe milldog an apology for not taking in the emotional state he's in in terms of losing a love one. You're a vet. of this board and should be the lead on this, as I've apologize to you, when you left I've offended you, I think you should do the same for others.. We're still a phin family with different opinons on politics.

Of course he had to do it. The biggest threat to the world at the time was Iraq. If he took no action against Iraq and they used his perceived WMD on a neighbor like Israel or Saudi Arabia it would just be an awful thing to say the least.

The impeachment stuff you bring up just makes you look irrational MD.

As far as milldog I'm sorry for his loss, honestly. However I'm sorry, he is blaming the wrong person. He's not the only person to lose someone in Iraq. I see no reason to apologize for him wishing someone close to me to die while telling me to F-Off.

I honestly think you are out of line! He owes me an apology.

Blackocrates
09-09-2008, 11:54 PM
When you call someone a LIAR, be man enough to use the word, son. If not you just come of as weak!

No Internet muscles here, but you sure act as if you have some. Next time don't make assumptions based on nothing.

Well I guess I won't wait until the tomorrow. I never called you a liar, or insinuated that you were. All I said was that I was talking about you, then I commented on your sentence about you not caring who's died in the war. What did I assume? I wasn't even talking to you, I was making a general statement about people that haven't lost anything in this war.

You can stoop to childish insults all you want, it's only a reflection of yourself.

ohall
09-09-2008, 11:56 PM
Well I guess I won't wait until the tomorrow. I never called you a liar, or insinuated that you were. All I said was that I was talking about you, then I commented on your sentence about you not caring who's died in the war. What did I assume? I wasn't even talking to you, I was making a general statement about people that haven't lost anything in this war.

You can stoop to childish insults all you want, it's only a reflection of yourself.

I haven't insulted anyone.

And you can back track from what you meant, that's cool.

Ferretsquig
09-09-2008, 11:58 PM
Of course he had to do it. The biggest threat to the world at the time was Iraq. If he took no action against Iraq and they used his perceived WMD on a neighbor like Israel or Saudi Arabia it would just be an awful thing to say the least.

How horrible it would of been if that evil dictator had used his imaginary weapons against his neighbors.

The stupidity of people is just beyond belief.....

Blackocrates
09-10-2008, 12:01 AM
I haven't insulted anyone.

And you can back track from what you meant, that's cool.

Patronizing somebody by calling them 'son' is insulting. You know that, yet you still do it for whatever reason. I wish you would stop being vague and tell me where I insinuated you were a liar. My post where I quoted something from phinfan wasn't meant for you, nor him. You are just making stuff up, unless I'm missing something.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:03 AM
Iraq never threatened our freedom in any way, so it wasn't about freedom. I don't understand the second part of your first sentence. So we went to war to show the world how big are muscles are? If so that's ridiculous and not worthy of one military death.

Yes IMO someone had to go down after 9/11. The world saw us as a paper tiger because of our decision to pull out of Vietnam and from the Black Hawk incident. If we didn't the terrorists would obviously think they can repeat 9/11 whenever they like without any consequences.

#1 on the list was Iraq because we were currently at war with them and the world agreed they had WMD. Also and IMO this is key. There is no way we can inflict the kind of damage we did to the terrorists in Afghanistan as we have in Iraq. If we only went after them in Afghanistan we would never have seen victory as we have in Iraq. They would simply melt away into the mountains until we had to leave.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:04 AM
How horrible it would of been if that evil dictator had used his imaginary weapons against his neighbors.

The stupidity of people is just beyond belief.....

That is not how the world saw Saddam/Iraq at the time.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:05 AM
Patronizing somebody by calling them 'son' is insulting. You know that, yet you still do it for whatever reason. I wish you would stop being vague and tell me where I insinuated you were a liar. My post where I quoted something from phinfan wasn't meant for you, nor him. You are just making stuff up, unless I'm missing something.

I insulted no one. You are far too sensitive IMO.

You can re-read the posts to figure things out.

Blackocrates
09-10-2008, 12:06 AM
Yes IMO someone had to go down after 9/11. The world saw us as a paper tiger because of our decision to pull out of Vietnam and from the Black Hawk incident. If we didn't the terrorists would obviously think they can repeat 9/11 whenever they like without any consequences.

#1 on the list was Iraq because we were currently at war with them and the world agreed they had WMD. Also and IMO this is key. There is no way we can inflict the kind of damage we did to the terrorists in Afghanistan as we have in Iraq. If we only went after them in Afghanistan we would never have seen victory as we have in Iraq. They would simply melt away into the mountains until we had to leave.

That's fine, I disagree. But I really wish you would address my question and show me where I insinuated you were a liar. I'm tired and I want to go to bed but I'm curious enough to wait.

Blackocrates
09-10-2008, 12:09 AM
I insulted no one. You are far too sensitive IMO.

You can re-read the posts to figure things out.

So if I say, "listen here boy..." that's not an insult? You were trying to belittle me, I'm not being sensitive about it I'm just pointing out an obvious fact. If you enjoy belittling people then by all means belittle away.

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 12:09 AM
Of course he had to do it. The biggest threat to the world at the time was Iraq. If he took no action against Iraq and they used his perceived WMD on a neighbor like Israel or Saudi Arabia it would just be an awful thing to say the least.

The impeachment stuff you bring up just makes you look irrational MD.

As far as milldog I'm sorry for his loss, honestly. However I'm sorry, he is blaming the wrong person. He's not the only person to lose someone in Iraq. I see no reason to apologize for him wishing someone close to me to die while telling me to F-Off.

I honestly think you are out of line! He owes me an apology.

Wow, you really believe what you're saying don't you? Iraq was no threat Ohall, didn't you see how easy it was to attack them..Saddam didn't want the world to know he was so vulerable (sp). We destroyed them in Gulf war 1, I personally related that to you before this war, I had just come out of the military a couple of years before this one, I knew the threat assessment of Iraq, that's why I questioned Bush before this war began..I saw the assessment myself Ohall, I know the truth, whether you trust me or not, I knew the truth. Even when I'm on the opposite side of you on this, I won't lie to you. The world wasn't as afriad as you're making them out to be, hince, our allies stayed home..but you've heard this before...Just like you guys question Obama about still not voting for the surge, even after what you know now, you can still make that statement, even though I told you before the war what the case was, and it came to pass as I told you. That's arrogant and a total lack of respect for facts.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:10 AM
That's fine, I disagree. But I really wish you would address my question and show me where I insinuated you were a liar. I'm tired and I want to go to bed but I'm curious enough to wait.

I thought you were saying, to me, that I made up losing someone in the Iraq war.

As I said he is not the only person to know loss from the Iraq war. And again I don't care who you lose in the Iraq war it is irrational to blame one person for what took place when there is so much blame to go around if you thought there was a lie told.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:12 AM
Wow, you really believe what you're saying don't you? Iraq was no threat Ohall, didn't you see how easy it was to attack them..Saddam didn't want the world to know he was so vulerable (sp). We destroyed them in Gulf war 1, I personally related that to you before this war, I had just come out of the military a couple of years before this one, I knew the threat assessment of Iraq, that's why I questioned Bush before this war began..I saw the assessment myself Ohall, I know the truth, whether you trust me or not, I knew the truth. Even when I'm on the opposite side of you on this, I won't lie to you. The world wasn't as afriad as you're making them out to be, hince, our allies stayed home..but you've heard this before...Just like you guys question Obama about still not voting for the surge, even after what you know now, you can still make that statement, even though I told you before the war what the case was, and it came to pass as I told you. That's arrogant and a total lack of respect for facts.

No MD, I really don't believe it all that. I just typed it for the heck of it.

Unlike you I remember how things were before the war. I'm not comfortable re-writing history as so many seem to be when it comes to this subject.

I'll remind you I'm not the one that thinks Bush should be impeached!

Blackocrates
09-10-2008, 12:13 AM
I thought you were saying, to me, that I made up losing someone in the Iraq war.



Nope, it never entered my mind. I was strictly talking about people who haven't lost anybody and they say let's move on...etc. I wasn't talking about anybody on the site, I was just generalizing.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:15 AM
Nope, it never entered my mind. I was strictly talking about people who haven't lost anybody and they say let's move on...etc. I wasn't talking about anybody on the site, I was just generalizing.

Sorry, I apologize. It was just the timing of the posts.

Mr772
09-10-2008, 12:17 AM
Wow, you really believe what you're saying don't you? Iraq was no threat Ohall, didn't you see how easy it was to attack them..Saddam didn't want the world to know he was so vulerable (sp). We destroyed them in Gulf war 1, I personally related that to you before this war, I had just come out of the military a couple of years before this one, I knew the threat assessment of Iraq, that's why I questioned Bush before this war began..I saw the assessment myself Ohall, I know the truth, whether you trust me or not, I knew the truth. Even when I'm on the opposite side of you on this, I won't lie to you. The world wasn't as afriad as you're making them out to be, hince, our allies stayed home..but you've heard this before...Just like you guys question Obama about still not voting for the surge, even after what you know now, you can still make that statement, even though I told you before the war what the case was, and it came to pass as I told you. That's arrogant and a total lack of respect for facts.

I think Ohall only trusts and blindly defends King George.

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 12:17 AM
Yes IMO someone had to go down after 9/11. The world saw us as a paper tiger because of our decision to pull out of Vietnam and from the Black Hawk incident. If we didn't the terrorists would obviously think they can repeat 9/11 whenever they like without any consequences.

#1 on the list was Iraq because we were currently at war with them and the world agreed they had WMD. Also and IMO this is key. There is no way we can inflict the kind of damage we did to the terrorists in Afghanistan as we have in Iraq. If we only went after them in Afghanistan we would never have seen victory as we have in Iraq. They would simply melt away into the mountains until we had to leave.

huh???? Someone, that someone would be Afganistan, they were clearly involved and we went after them which was the right move...The world didn't disagree about WMD would be more accurate, and we weren't at war with Iraq, they signed a peace treaty at the end of GW1.. we were at sanctions and consequence with Iraq, that's more accurate than saying we were at war with them. So your saying we went after Iraq because we could get measurable results easier than we could for someone who attacked us...Have you lost it? Okay I'm though for tonight..that one was too much for me...that's the wildest thing I've heard yet.. now I see why McCain, another war monger could finish the middle east. Is that permissible to say while we're in this zone? :shakeno:

Blackocrates
09-10-2008, 12:18 AM
Sorry, I apologize. It was just the timing of the posts.

No problem, I was wondering where your responses came from. No worries, I'm off to bed now.

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 12:23 AM
No MD, I really don't believe it all that. I just typed it for the heck of it.

Unlike you I remember how things were before the war. I'm not comfortable re-writing history as so many seem to be when it comes to this subject.

I'll remind you I'm not the one that thinks Bush should be impeached!

Are you saying we didn't have those exact conversations before this war, I've been very consistent on this thing and haven't changed a word I've said before...I don't know how much is saved, I doubt this site goes back that far...but I bet I'm closer to real history than you are..then again you've always had a knack for not remembering or accepting things that didn't turn out the way you thought they should.....:up: Hey I lost on the bush rerun, I didn't think the country would do that again, I was wrong...I guess I can admit those and you can't admit when you're wrong.. got ya...I've got to get some sleep, I'll take you up on this tomorrow, I mean later this morning..:up:

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:25 AM
huh???? Someone, that someone would be Afganistan, they were clearly involved and we went after them which was the right move...The world didn't disagree about WMD would be more accurate, and we weren't at war with Iraq, they signed a peace treaty at the end of GW1.. we were at sanctions and consequence with Iraq, that's more accurate than saying we were at war with them. So your saying we went after Iraq because we could get measurable results easier than we could for someone who attacked us...Have you lost it? Okay I'm though for tonight..that one was too much for me...that's the wildest thing I've heard yet.. now I see why McCain, another war monger could finish the middle east. Is that permissible to say while we're in this zone? :shakeno:

In fact we were still at war with Iraq. That is why we were enforcing the no fly zone. This is also why Clinton was able to bomb Iraq whenever he wanted to. A peace treaty is not the end of a war.

Take your time, search google. I'm sure you'll figure out.

As far as the rest, I see no reason to re-write what I've already typed. IMO you couldn't be more wrong and you do a very AVG job of re-writting how things actually were pre-invasion of Iraq.

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:26 AM
I think Ohall only trusts and blindly defends King George.

I think anyone that calls our President a King needs to get at minimum his eyes checked!

ohall
09-10-2008, 12:28 AM
Are you saying we didn't have those exact conversations before this war, I've been very consistent on this thing and haven't changed a word I've said before...I don't know how much is saved, I doubt this site goes back that far...but I bet I'm closer to real history than you are..then again you've always had a knack for not remembering or accepting things that didn't turn out the way you thought they should.....:up: Hey I lost on the bush rerun, I didn't think the country would do that again, I was wrong...I guess I can admit those and you can't admit when you're wrong.. got ya...I've got to get some sleep, I'll take you up on this tomorrow, I mean later this morning..:up:

Please do a search. Maybe you will remember how things really were in the world at that time. As far as predictions, I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I'm not here to be right. I'm wrong daily. I learned that when I was a teenager.

Dolphan7
09-10-2008, 01:57 AM
Geesh! I take a few hours off and this thread gets out of hand. Looks like it is back on track ,but boy that was close.

I was thinking about sending this one to the depths of the sea forum. Maybe I will still do that.

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Geesh! I take a few hours off and this thread gets out of hand. Looks like it is back on track ,but boy that was close.

I was thinking about sending this one to the depths of the sea forum. Maybe I will still do that.

it was rough for a while..but as pofo vets, they came though and I was proud of them for it..:up: