PDA

View Full Version : The world's verdict will be harsh if the US rejects Obama



BAMAPHIN 22
09-10-2008, 10:07 AM
If Sarah Palin defies the conventional wisdom that says elections are determined by the top of the ticket, and somehow wins this for McCain, what will be the reaction? Yes, blue-state America will go into mourning once again, feeling estranged in its own country. A generation of young Americans - who back Obama in big numbers - will turn cynical, concluding that politics doesn't work after all. And, most depressing, many African-Americans will decide that if even Barack Obama - with all his conspicuous gifts - could not win, then no black man can ever be elected president.


But what of the rest of the world? This is the reaction I fear most. For Obama has stirred an excitement around the globe unmatched by any American politician in living memory. Polling in Germany, France, Britain and Russia shows that Obama would win by whopping majorities, with the pattern repeated in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America. If November 4 were a global ballot, Obama would win it handsomely. If the free world could choose its leader, it would be Barack Obama.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/10/uselections2008.barackobama

MoFinz
09-10-2008, 10:08 AM
so, we let the rest of the world elect our President now??

I don't think so.

LouPhinFan
09-10-2008, 10:59 AM
This brings to mind the soundbite the news played when reporting about Obama's over-the-top speech in Germany. A news agency was interviewing members of the crowd for their reactions to Obama and his speech. Some British guy said:

"I found my new Messiah, he's great"

Or something very close that.


I don't put any stock in Europe's opinions at all. Yeah, they'll think less of us if McCain is elected but only until Russia decides to invade a few more small countries and then they'll be calling us to help them take care of business. They're pretty spineless over there. Completely different culture than over here in the US.

Everyone hates the US, but everyone wants to be the US.

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2008, 11:05 AM
Luckily, we won't have to worry about it.

MoFinz
09-10-2008, 11:17 AM
Luckily, we won't have to worry about it.

Im pretty sure the Venezuelans wouldnt mind of we elected Chavez President, or the Iranians id we elected Achmeimanahole President. I wonder why we never listen to those international voices?

Oh yeah, because we are America, and we decide for ourselves who will be our leader. The last decades or 2 haven't been stellar for us, but by God, it's still our choice. Any European that thinks their opinion on who our President should be weighs anything close to an Americans can shampoo my crotch

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 11:17 AM
This brings to mind the soundbite the news played when reporting about Obama's over-the-top speech in Germany. A news agency was interviewing members of the crowd for their reactions to Obama and his speech. Some British guy said:

"I found my new Messiah, he's great"

Or something very close that.


I don't put any stock in Europe's opinions at all. Yeah, they'll think less of us if McCain is elected but only until Russia decides to invade a few more small countries and then they'll be calling us to help them take care of business. They're pretty spineless over there. Completely different culture than over here in the US.

Everyone hates the US, but everyone wants to be the US.

That's no longer true, it use to be true, but we've lost so much standing, others don't look at us the same way.. They still love american ppl, but we as a country what we stood for is no longer that becon on the hill. Take a trip overseas..ask them.

MoFinz
09-10-2008, 11:24 AM
That's no longer true, it use to be true, but we've lost so much standing, others don't look at us the same way.. They still love american ppl, but we as a country what we stood for is no longer that becon on the hill. Take a trip overseas..ask them.

And yet, people still die to come here. People still set up shop here to make a better life for their families. Not too many other places in this world see that

I may not care for our politics all the time, but i will always acknowledge this country as the Light on the Hill, the Land of Opportunity, and the Country of Hope where every citizen has a chance to live what is feared and envied by other regimes worldwide.....The American Dream.

ohall
09-10-2008, 11:29 AM
That's no longer true, it use to be true, but we've lost so much standing, others don't look at us the same way.. They still love american ppl, but we as a country what we stood for is no longer that becon on the hill. Take a trip overseas..ask them.

My sister is married to a Venezuelan. Over the last 8 years my brother in laws family has moved from Venezuela, there is only a few of them left to still come over. Although they didn't kill anyone to get here they did move heaven on earth.

It's my experience although many world leaders and media types may say negatives things about this country and its leaders they would all come here to live in a milli-second if they could. I honestly believe when you hear those ppl whine, they are nothing more than jealous.

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 11:39 AM
My sister is married to a Venezuelan. Over the last 8 years my brother in laws family has moved from Venezuela, there is only a few of them left to still come over. Although they didn't kill anyone to get here they did move heaven on earth.

It's my experience although many world leaders and media types may say negatives things about this country and its leaders they would all come here to live in a milli-second if they could. I honestly believe when you hear those ppl whine, they are nothing more than jealous.

I think that's something we as Americans like to think, I mean we love our country and we see it as the best country in the world and we should, we're a hell of a country... but after living overseas I see them living basically the same way we live, they have just as much freedom and upward mobility as we do.. While in europe, there are places that would make you think you were back in america.. I mean we love european places too...we fantasize about France, our young love amiserdam and the switz.. Europe and America are very much intwined.. But it's the american ppl that the europeans really love, we have a style about ourselves that intrigues them. I really think it's the melting pot image in the US that attracks so many, where else in the world can you go when your from a foreign country and find so many of your countrymen in than the US. I think their biggest fascination, is somehow we make it work..

FinFatale
09-10-2008, 11:49 AM
That's no longer true, it use to be true, but we've lost so much standing, others don't look at us the same way.. They still love american ppl, but we as a country what we stood for is no longer that becon on the hill. Take a trip overseas..ask them.

I was born in Europe and grew up there, lived in two different countries there, travelled extensively throughout and I can tell you this....what one might precieve as LOVE for this great country is from my experience LOVE for our American tourist dollar, other than that there is still disdain for Americans often seen as arrogrant and concieted. Yes, they want what we have here, can you blame them?? but that doesn't mean they LOVE america or americas, infact jealousy of this country is rampant. If you speak the language of the country you may find, when you travel, you HEAR and UNDERSTAND things you wouldn't if you don't.....I also am aware that like here, England in particular you will have " conservative" leaning media and " liberal" media.... I grew up when George Bush wasn't president and the climate was the same long before Bush...long before Clinton........it just is what it is.........Yes, many come to this country to live a ' better " life but imo its self serving not because they just LOVE america.........infact one of the reasons that I shy from socialism is I actually lived and worked in two socialists countries..I don't like socialism.....

jared81
09-10-2008, 11:51 AM
That's no longer true, it use to be true, but we've lost so much standing, others don't look at us the same way.. They still love american ppl, but we as a country what we stood for is no longer that becon on the hill. Take a trip overseas..ask them.

where is your proof for that? i make a living talking to europeans, and they all have issues with our country, but it is purely at the governmental level......most europeans i talk to, envy our country, and alot of them want to move here. you arent doing to well with your analysis today MD

ohall
09-10-2008, 11:55 AM
I was born in Europe and grew up there, lived in two different countries there, travelled extensively throughout and I can tell you this....what one might precieve as LOVE for this great country is from my experience LOVE for our American tourist dollar, other than that there is still disdain for Americans often seen as arrogrant and concieted. Yes, they want we have here, can you blame them?? but that doesn't mean they LOVE america or americas, infact jealousy of this country is rampant. If you speak the language of the country you may find, when you travel, you HEAR and UNDERSTAND things you wouldn't if you don't.....I also am aware that like here, England in particular you will have " conservative" leaning media and " liberal" media.... I grew up when George Bush wasn't president and the climate was the same long before Bush...long before Clinton........it just is what it is.........Yes, many come to this country to live a ' better " life but imo its self serving not because they just LOVE america.........
The way I see it is:

Europe started hating American politicians when Reagan laid into Russia. Many Europeans thought if you call a spade a spade in Russia America is not the country that is going to be invaded it will be Europe that will be invaded.

It's the appeasement mentality versus the fight mentality. That's why along with JFK why they have such contempt for most CON Presidents and politicians.

They know if a CON is elected they are not going appease, they are going to face threats head on.

MDFINFAN
09-10-2008, 12:10 PM
where is your proof for that? i make a living talking to europeans, and they all have issues with our country, but it is purely at the governmental level......most europeans i talk to, envy our country, and alot of them want to move here. you arent doing to well with your analysis today MD

When I lived there that's the way it was, I can't bring evidence other than relating my experience, I'm not sure the ppl you're interacting with are telling you the full truth, I didn't mention one thing that Fintale did, and that's they do think we're conceited and arrogant..and when you read posts on here like others want to pick our leader, and things like that, it shows a kind of arrogants. Just because others in another country like one of our leaders, which in the old days use to be a good thing, now our cynicism has made it a bad thing, doesn't mean we should take that as a bad thing, if nothing esle, it helps with foreign policy.. I truely think some think we can do everything in this world on our own, and that's simple not the case.

Case in point, in order to fight these wars, we have to borrow money from other countries....that shows our weaknesses. Without going into a lot of dicussion and pointing out other we're without need of others help and their opinions..

phinfan3411
09-10-2008, 12:11 PM
I was born in Europe and grew up there, lived in two different countries there, travelled extensively throughout and I can tell you this....what one might precieve as LOVE for this great country is from my experience LOVE for our American tourist dollar, other than that there is still disdain for Americans often seen as arrogrant and concieted. Yes, they want we have here, can you blame them?? but that doesn't mean they LOVE america or americas, infact jealousy of this country is rampant. If you speak the language of the country you may find, when you travel, you HEAR and UNDERSTAND things you wouldn't if you don't.....I also am aware that like here, England in particular you will have " conservative" leaning media and " liberal" media.... I grew up when George Bush wasn't president and the climate was the same long before Bush...long before Clinton........it just is what it is.........Yes, many come to this country to live a ' better " life but imo its self serving not because they just LOVE america.........infact one of the reasons that I shy from socialism is I actually lived and worked in two socialists countries..I don't like socialism.....

I love all the different viewpoints we have here in the pofo. I mean you can possibly believe what many want you to believe about our country, and what President Bush has done to it, or you can listen to a person that ACTUALLY LIVED IT. You probably do not have to guess who i'm going to believe, way to go FinFatale!

BlueFin
09-10-2008, 12:33 PM
so, we let the rest of the world elect our President now??

I don't think so.

Letting the rest of the world pick our president would be like the New England Patriots letting me pick their replacement for Tom Brady.......anybody have Jay Fiedler's number?

LouPhinFan
09-10-2008, 12:34 PM
Letting the rest of the world pick our president would be like the New England Patriots letting me pick their replacement for Tom Brady.......anybody have Jay Fiedler's number?

No, but I might be able to find Ray Lucas' number for you...

:lol:

FinFatale
09-10-2008, 12:35 PM
Letting the rest of the world pick our president would be like the New England Patriots letting me pick their replacement for Tom Brady.......anybody have Jay Fiedler's number?

lol YES IT'S 1-800-JF-SUCKS

Clipse
09-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Who care's what other countries think? Last time I checked this is America and we are voting for president of...America. If they want their opinion's heard, get their *** over here and become an American citizen.

With that being said, FinFatale, great post, outstanding post. I too was born and raised in Europe (Germany). Even though I was born an American Citizen (army) my Mother is German and we often visited her relatives. And man do some of them hate Americans. Most of it is streotypical bull****, much like we have here in America, but like you said, they will move to America because they want the "AMERICAN DREAM", not because they like AMERICANS.

FinFatale
09-10-2008, 12:50 PM
Who care's what other countries think? Last time I checked this is America and we are voting for president of...America. If they want their opinion's heard, get their *** over here and become an American citizen.

With that being said, FinFatale, great post, outstanding post. I too was born and raised in Europe (Germany). Even though I was born an American Citizen (army) my Mother is German and we often visited her relatives. And man do some of them hate Americans. Most of it is streotypical bull****, much like we have here in America, but like you said, they will move to America because they want the "AMERICA DREAM", not because they like AMERICANS.

I was born in France and grew up as a young child and teen there, moved to Germany and spent several years there.......then relocated to Canada..........lived and worked there.....until I became ill and due to the health care system there.......wasn't able to secure quality health care, came to the US for care........met and married my husband.....and am now a PROUD US CITIZEN............

LouPhinFan
09-10-2008, 12:53 PM
That's no longer true, it use to be true, but we've lost so much standing, others don't look at us the same way.. They still love american ppl, but we as a country what we stood for is no longer that becon on the hill. Take a trip overseas..ask them.

That may be the sentiment within Europe, but I think all the hispanics, Asians, Indians, and Africans that immigrate (both lawfully and unlawfully) to this country would disagree. We are still the becon of hope on the hill, just not to Europe and its emerging socialist, appeasment mentality.

Clipse
09-10-2008, 01:20 PM
I was born in France and grew up as a young child and teen there, moved to Germany and spent several years there.......then relocated to Canada..........lived and worked there.....until I became ill and due to the health care system there.......wasn't able to secure quality health care, came to the US for care........met and married my husband.....and am now a PROUD US CITIZEN............

Yes I understand that the healthcare is pretty bad in Canada. Imo its because its Universal, so being that it's cheap. And well just like everything else nowadays, the cheaper it is, the worser the quality is. That's why im hoping to dear God Obama doesn't get elected because Universal Health Care is such a horrible, expensive idea.

Clipse
09-10-2008, 01:21 PM
That may be the sentiment within Europe, but I think all the hispanics, Asians, Indians, and Africans that immigrate (both lawfully and unlawfully) to this country would disagree. We are still the becon of hope on the hill, just not to Europe and its emerging socialist, appeasment mentality.
American Dream as they like to call it :up:. Great post.

FinFatale
09-10-2008, 01:28 PM
you know I'd like to add that just recently I ran into a Canadian woman that was comparing Canadian healthcare and its quality to American healthcare, she was praising her canadian healthcare.....until I told her where I lived in Canada for how long etc....... then she suddenly changed her tune..........I think that some of the other countries just want so badly to have SOMETHING , anything better than this GREAT free country called the USA that some really do exgerate some of the greatness in theirs..............just my opinion of course...........

Dolphan7
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
The day we allow any influence whatsoever on our elections from the rest of the world, is the first day of the beginning of the end for America!

ohall
09-10-2008, 01:33 PM
Who care's what other countries think? Last time I checked this is America and we are voting for president of...America. If they want their opinion's heard, get their *** over here and become an American citizen.

With that being said, FinFatale, great post, outstanding post. I too was born and raised in Europe (Germany). Even though I was born an American Citizen (army) my Mother is German and we often visited her relatives. And man do some of them hate Americans. Most of it is streotypical bull****, much like we have here in America, but like you said, they will move to America because they want the "AMERICA DREAM", not because they like AMERICANS.

Obama seems to. I don't know if he really does but his recent trip abroad I think it is quite easy to get that impression.

poornate
09-10-2008, 01:47 PM
We all should care what other countries think... Too often it seems like there is no accounting for the fact that we are a member of a globalized economy... a world that requires cooperation, allies, etc...

Where does alll this isolationist worldview spring from? Didn't we learn the lessons of Isolationism in WWII? I care very much about our place in the world... it is different to be a leader because of peripherals than it is to be a leader by unanimous decision... through recognition... International diplomacy and our nation's legitimacy should be on the forefront of everyone's mind...

Another thing... you cannot compare what happened with Russia and the US to what is happening today... the whole world had divided into teams during the Cold war..that isn't the case now... We COULD do what we did then... Perhaps that could be the case again... but we don't have near the reputation now that we developed by the end of the eighties and into the nineties...

BlueFin
09-10-2008, 01:54 PM
That may be the sentiment within Europe, but I think all the hispanics, Asians, Indians, and Africans that immigrate (both lawfully and unlawfully) to this country would disagree. We are still the becon of hope on the hill, just not to Europe and its emerging socialist, appeasment mentality.

That may be the idealistic view, but certainly those folks are also looking out for their own self interests as well.

There is a worldwide jealousy of this country thats exists, and you certainly can't say that Venezuela loves us in the Hispanic world. And were certainly not loved by the many Muslim countries throughtout Africa and Asia.

Its not just a European thing.

BlueFin
09-10-2008, 02:04 PM
We all should care what other countries think... Too often it seems like there is no accounting for the fact that we are a member of a globalized economy... a world that requires cooperation, allies, etc...

Where does alll this isolationist worldview spring from? Didn't we learn the lessons of Isolationism in WWII? I care very much about our place in the world... it is different to be a leader because of peripherals than it is to be a leader by unanimous decision... through recognition... International diplomacy and our nation's legitimacy should be on the forefront of everyone's mind...

Another thing... you cannot compare what happened with Russia and the US to what is happening today... the whole world had divided into teams during the Cold war..that isn't the case now... We COULD do what we did then... Perhaps that could be the case again... but we don't have near the reputation now that we developed by the end of the eighties and into the nineties...

Actually, the isolationist lost the WW2 argument, and the WW1 argument, so your point is kind of mute. If we were isolationist we would not have freed millions upon millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It does not make you isolationist to say that who the people of Europe, or Africa, or Asia or anywhere else, want as the United States president is not relevent to the discussion.

He is the president of this country, elected by this country, to look out for this countries interests.

You can safely bet, than any candidate promoted by foreigners, would be a candidate that would better serve the interests of the foreigners versus our own citizens.

I don't want a President that is more concerned with appearances than standing up for what is right.

All to often, this country has been right and they have been wrong.

Actually, Isolationism worked very well for this country for the first 125 years of its existence, its the moving away from it that has caused us more and more problems.

Dolphan7
09-10-2008, 02:30 PM
We should just take out guns and go home. :refuse:

Clipse
09-10-2008, 02:34 PM
Obama seems to. I don't know if he really does but his recent trip abroad I think it is quite easy to get that impression.
Obama...Here's hoping after McCain wins, that name never ever comes up again. Barack is going to regret not picking Hillary for VP imo. No chance he wins the election now, or maybe I'm just being optimistic, who knows.

poornate
09-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Actually, the isolationist lost the WW2 argument, and the WW1 argument, so your point is kind of mute. If we were isolationist we would not have freed millions upon millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It does not make you isolationist to say that who the people of Europe, or Africa, or Asia or anywhere else, want as the United States president is not relevent to the discussion.

He is the president of this country, elected by this country, to look out for this countries interests.

You can safely bet, than any candidate promoted by foriegners, would be a candidate that would better serve the interests of the foriegners versus our own citizens.

I don't want a President that is more concerned with appearances than standing up for what is right.

All to often, this country has been right and they have been wrong.

Actually, Isolationism worked very well for this country for the first 125 years of its existence, its the moving away from it that has caused us more and more problems.

A couple of points...

1. it is possible that WWII would not have happened, and it is probable that it would not have been as terrible, if we, as a nation, had not subscribed to a non-interventionist policy during the 1930's... So it is not a moot point at all...

2. Iraq doesn't prove anything about this topic... Iraq served only our interests, and that is debatable, and the interests of the Iraqi citizens, and that is also debatable.

3. "Standing up for what is right" and "appearances" are not exclusive. A lot of times we, as a nation, have not aligned our goals to the goals and interests of our International position.... This hurts the world and lessens our influence. Our actions can serve us and the rest of the world, too...

4. As for the statement about us being an Isolationist country for our first 125 years and it serving us well... that is not true. We weren't an Isolationist country for our first 125 days, much less years... we have always been a global nation with ties to the world... perhaps with the lowest point in the tide being the off again on again period, preceding the wars, between 1904 and 1941... and maybe During the Civil war... Never happened with any authority, though...

tucker
09-10-2008, 02:44 PM
My sister is married to a Venezuelan. Over the last 8 years my brother in laws family has moved from Venezuela, there is only a few of them left to still come over. Although they didn't kill anyone to get here they did move heaven on earth.

It's my experience although many world leaders and media types may say negatives things about this country and its leaders they would all come here to live in a milli-second if they could. I honestly believe when you hear those ppl whine, they are nothing more than jealous.the upper class hates it in venezuela, they poor love chavez

poornate
09-10-2008, 02:45 PM
Obama...Here's hoping after McCain wins, that name never ever comes up again. Barack is going to regret not picking Hillary for VP imo. No chance he wins the election now, or maybe I'm just being optimistic, who knows.

I am so glad he didn't pick Clinton... i know it would have helped politically, but it would have made me seriously question his judgment and motive... And, BTW, you are being exceedingly optimistic... I think we remain a toss-up until the final debate... someone made this point, i can't remember who, that after the final debate, whoever wins it will carry to the end... i believe that... All things with clarity in that last one... all the mud will be done by then and we will see what happens... From "Big Lick", huh?

poornate
09-10-2008, 02:46 PM
the upper class hates it in venezuela, they poor love chavez

of course they hate it... they have had everything taken from them... lifestyles, jobs, freedoms, food...

Clipse
09-10-2008, 03:00 PM
I am so glad he didn't pick Clinton... i know it would have helped politically, but it would have made me seriously question his judgment and motive... And, BTW, you are being exceedingly optimistic... I think we remain a toss-up until the final debate... someone made this point, i can't remember who, that after the final debate, whoever wins it will carry to the end... i believe that... All things with clarity in that last one... all the mud will be done by then and we will see what happens... From "Big Lick", huh?
Yep, reppin the Big Lick here.

poornate
09-10-2008, 03:14 PM
Yep, reppin the Big Lick here.

I was just down there like three weeks ago... nice town... i graduated from Radford and my college roommate went to Cave Springs...

BlueFin
09-10-2008, 04:01 PM
A couple of points...

1. it is possible that WWII would not have happened, and it is probable that it would not have been as terrible, if we, as a nation, had not subscribed to a non-interventionist policy during the 1930's... So it is not a moot point at all...

2. Iraq doesn't prove anything about this topic... Iraq served only our interests, and that is debatable, and the interests of the Iraqi citizens, and that is also debatable.

3. "Standing up for what is right" and "appearances" are not exclusive. A lot of times we, as a nation, have not aligned our goals to the goals and interests of our International position.... This hurts the world and lessens our influence. Our actions can serve us and the rest of the world, too...

4. As for the statement about us being an Isolationist country for our first 125 years and it serving us well... that is not true. We weren't an Isolationist country for our first 125 days, much less years... we have always been a global nation with ties to the world... perhaps with the lowest point in the tide being the off again on again period, preceding the wars, between 1904 and 1941... and maybe During the Civil war... Never happened with any authority, though...

Well, thats just not true, let me suggest you read a book titled, "America, A Republic, not an Empire".

We in fact did practice an America first policy (Isolationist Policy)until we were lured into WW1. For 100 Plus years we stayed out of European wars and affairs other than trade, nor did we fight any other wars than our own. We were not the worlds policeman or the worlds charity.

If you can provide any facts to dispute that I'd be interested in seeing them.

Dolphins9954
09-10-2008, 04:11 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/10/uselections2008.barackobama


Who cares what the world thinks. Americans decide the president. Not the world. What the world needs to understand is that no matter which way this election goes. We will get the same result. Obama=Mccain.

Dolphan7
09-10-2008, 04:17 PM
Obaima Palden 08!

#1 Fan
09-10-2008, 04:20 PM
who we choose as president effects the lives of people in other countries. we're tied to europe militarily and financially. it's not like us as dolphins fans picking the pats QB.

Clipse
09-10-2008, 05:13 PM
I was just down there like three weeks ago... nice town... i graduated from Radford and my college roommate went to Cave Springs...
Yes it is pretty nice I guess. Much better than Danville lol.

Dolphan7
09-10-2008, 05:16 PM
Actually, the isolationist lost the WW2 argument, and the WW1 argument, so your point is kind of mute. If we were isolationist we would not have freed millions upon millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It does not make you isolationist to say that who the people of Europe, or Africa, or Asia or anywhere else, want as the United States president is not relevent to the discussion.

He is the president of this country, elected by this country, to look out for this countries interests.

You can safely bet, than any candidate promoted by foreigners, would be a candidate that would better serve the interests of the foreigners versus our own citizens.

I don't want a President that is more concerned with appearances than standing up for what is right.

All to often, this country has been right and they have been wrong.

Actually, Isolationism worked very well for this country for the first 125 years of its existence, its the moving away from it that has caused us more and more problems.I tend to agree with you here. Not sure if you are suggesting we return to isolationist policy or not, but I don't think we can put the skin back on the onion so to speak.

The invention of the Nuclear bomb in the 40's and Russia's subsequent acquisition of the same horrible power thrust us into a new era. No longer could we retreat to our borders and stave off invasion being protected by vast oceans. Now the threat comes from the air, and immediate, and so destructive a first attack would be a last attack.

Add in the wild card of Islamic Extremism coupled with the threat of nuclear bombs, and there is no way we could ever not be out there and part of this world, militarily, economically, politically, Humanitarian etc....

There is no country in the world that could ever attack us, defeat us and not pay the ultimate price (Mutually Assured Destruction). No one would dare. That only leads to one way to take America down. Get control of our leaders. How do they do that? Get control of our elections, and influence them.

Barack Obama has already signaled that he is an internationalist, promoting a fee or tax on US citizens accountable to a world body. I remember that discussion a few months ago. He wants to make friends with the world, but has not placed a limit on the price. He wants to be the worlds leader, not just the United States.

It is no wonder the world likes him. He is the downfall of our sovereignity. Or at least the beginning of it.

The day we allow foreign countries to influnce and effect our elections, is the first day of the downfall of this great country.

A vote for Obama is a vote against Autonomy of the United States.

Just my .02