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BAMAPHIN 22
09-10-2008, 11:48 AM
With the economy the No. 1 issue just eight weeks from Election Day, majority-party Democrats are trying to push a second stimulus package through Congress to follow the tax rebate checks sent out earlier this year. So far, Republicans aren't joining the march, echoing the reservations expressed by presidential nominee John McCain and the White House.
Pressure is building for lawmakers to do something anything, perhaps.
Democratic leaders plan to forge ahead with a $50 billion stimulus package in the short time Congress will be in session between now and the election.
"It's about jobs. Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs a four-letter word," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday, discussing possible contents of a stimulus package.


http://news.aol.com/article/democrats-pushing-2nd-stimulus-gop/168140

ohall
09-10-2008, 11:57 AM
Drill now!

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2008, 12:10 PM
Does anyone have any detailed data on the effects of the first stimulus? I would be interested in seeing that.

poornate
09-10-2008, 01:34 PM
I don't have detailed info... but it did spark the economy... to me though, and this is directly inspired by the above post about drilling, it is comparable to the call for drilling. neither will have any lasting affect on us or on the economy as a whole. believe me... i am in a bad spot these days... it is a day to day life for me and my family... that first stimulus check REALLY helped us... But I don't want another one approved... i think it sets a bad precedent... and it doesn't help the long term fiscal picture of the nation...

Ferretsquig
09-10-2008, 01:34 PM
Does anyone have any detailed data on the effects of the first stimulus? I would be interested in seeing that.

It's not something that can be measured. You can try to correlate one event to another, and say that they lead to an increase in consumer spending, or say whatever benefit was countered by an increase in inflation. The reality is that $100 billion in a $15 trillion economy isn't going to have a discernible effect either way.

poornate
09-10-2008, 01:38 PM
It's not something that can be measured. You can try to correlate one event to another, and say that they lead to an increase in consumer spending, or say whatever benefit was countered by an increase in inflation. The reality is that $100 billion in a $15 trillion economy isn't going to have a discernible effect either way.

This is ignoring the economic spin off of transfer monies... when guy A spends a dollar with guy B's store, guy B pays his employee who is guy C, who pays Company A for services... etc, etc... i believe the Economic Spin-Off of a Federal Transfer payment dollar is eight times before it leaves the economy... that means $800 billion dollars... and that is around 5% of our economy... that's a lot...

Dolphan7
09-10-2008, 01:53 PM
Is this new stimulus to hit the citizens before the election, or soon after, in time for the Holidays?

If so couldn't this be considered a political ploy by the dems?

MoFinz
09-10-2008, 02:03 PM
Just like i asked when the first one was announced......where is the money to pay for it coming from? Are we robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Govt. just needs to get out of the way. The free market will correct itself, not with government assistance though

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2008, 02:04 PM
Is this new stimulus to hit the citizens before the election, or soon after, in time for the Holidays?

If so couldn't this be considered a political ploy by the dems?

Of course it would be. Just like Senate Republicans acting like fifth graders over a vote on drilling.

FinFatale
09-10-2008, 02:11 PM
http://www.moolanomy.com/692/second-stimulus-check/

just someone's opinion but its informative.

ohall
09-10-2008, 02:31 PM
Of course it would be. Just like Senate Republicans acting like fifth graders over a vote on drilling.

I think you mean DEM Senators.

tucker
09-10-2008, 02:40 PM
i spent mine at the Hard Rock Casino

Ferretsquig
09-10-2008, 02:49 PM
This is ignoring the economic spin off of transfer monies... when guy A spends a dollar with guy B's store, guy B pays his employee who is guy C, who pays Company A for services... etc, etc... i believe the Economic Spin-Off of a Federal Transfer payment dollar is eight times before it leaves the economy... that means $800 billion dollars... and that is around 5% of our economy... that's a lot...

Its a nice theory.....

poornate
09-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Its a nice theory.....

It's not theory... if it is spent, this is the proven and tracked result... if it is used to pay down existing debt? nada... I know where mine went... So that is a potential, cough, less than i stated...

Dolphins9954
09-10-2008, 04:08 PM
http://news.aol.com/article/democrats-pushing-2nd-stimulus-gop/168140



Great. More debt. That's exactly what we need to spur the economy.

Ferretsquig
09-10-2008, 04:58 PM
It's not theory... if it is spent, this is the proven and tracked result... if it is used to pay down existing debt? nada... I know where mine went... So that is a potential, cough, less than i stated...

It can't be proven.

I can turn around and make the argument that paying down debt it more beneficial to the economy because the money bolsters a bank's reserves, which in turn is used to invest in domestic industry, which uses the cash to hire employees, etc.... Ideally yes....there is a multiplication of each dollar spent when it circulates throughout the system.

The_Dark_Knight
09-11-2008, 10:14 AM
The thing with an economic stimulous package, the desired result is to spur the economy to such an extent that it helps move a stagnant economy. Now, if the economy grows...jobs are created and more money is spent, the stimulous package pays for itself in revenues collected by the government in taxes.

I don't have time right now to check, but Wayward brought up a good question if the first package helped move the economy. If it did and the ecomony is moving int he right direction, then another package may not be needed. If the economy needs a little bit more of a nudge...and current data collected shows that the package would be recouperated in taxes, then perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Without knowing the data from the first package, I can't form an opinion one way or the other.

poornate
09-11-2008, 10:21 AM
It can't be proven.

I can turn around and make the argument that paying down debt it more beneficial to the economy because the money bolsters a bank's reserves, which in turn is used to invest in domestic industry, which uses the cash to hire employees, etc.... Ideally yes....there is a multiplication of each dollar spent when it circulates throughout the system.

I know a lot of Macroeconomists who would disagree with you here.....

ohall
09-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Drill for domestic oil and gas prices will fall and that will resolve the major lag on our economy. High gas prices are killing everyone.

Some how I doubt the DEM congress will really ever allow an up or down vote on this issue. They'd rather give away more money that we simply have to repay later on. Once is fine, but twice is just irresponsible IMO.

FinFatale
09-11-2008, 01:44 PM
Drill for domestic oil and gas prices will fall and that will resolve the major lag on our economy. High gas prices are killing everyone.

Some how I doubt the DEM congress will really ever allow an up or down vote on this issue. They'd rather give away more money that we simply have to repay later on. Once is fine, but twice is just irresponsible IMO.


I agree. debt is debt , and frankly I haven't seen anything substantial to indicate the last one triggered anything significant......

Eshlemon
09-12-2008, 02:52 PM
Thought the first was a bad idea first time and haven't seen any reason to change opinion.

We're insane. A gas tax holiday is shameless pandering but giving everybody hundreds of dollars is a stimulus package...and vice versa. Gas tax holidays netted a 70% return of the full tax amount...wonder if this was as successful.