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View Full Version : OK. You call yourself a fan? Then READ THIS.



afishfan
09-14-2008, 01:24 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/miami-dolphins/story/685593.html

There was recently a thread on this board about whether or not players actually are aware and look at this message board. Well we are aware correct? I would say the chances are pretty damn good they are as well.

The bottom line is this. If you are really a fan. Then PROVE IT! If you want your team to win SO BAD then SUPPORT THEM! Stop putting unrealistic expectations on high draft picks for example. When there are several factors involved in their evolution as a player that we could NEVER begin to fathom. So many around here talk so much verbal diarrhea without first off supporting ANYTHING they say by ANY facts whatsoever. If you don't have facts thats fine, great to have an opinion about things as well, but please at least have a basis for your interpretation of some event by SUPPORTING your theory. Keep in mind, in some way shape or form, the information DOES make it back to the players.

If we are fans then lets support our team. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. You want to point fingers? Let's do it to the coaching staff, lol. They can take it. Keep in mind, most of the players are barely out of college. They barely know who they are as men yet. We look up to them etc, but they are people as well. Think how some of the criticism levied here would feel if you were the one being attacked. Sometimes the money wouldnt even be worth it. And don't think for a second that sometimes, some of these guys don't think that way.

So let's be positive! Let's support our team, that we are so passionate about! Let's just ENJOY watching our team...and hopefully we'll have some success along the way!

Oh and for the record. If you want to talk FACTS. Let's talk facts. Brady Quinn SO FAR is the bust. Ted Ginn has, so far, been an INFINATELY more producive player in HIS BRIEF ONE YEAR NFL CAREER. Ginn has had production ON THE FIELD. Brady can't even get a snap. Look at the facts. If we had drafted Quinn and he still hadn't stepped on the field, would we still be treating HIM this way? Give Teddy Ginn time (you want to talk a little smack at the END of NEXT year if he hasn't been productive? Go ahead talk A LITTLE. But keep in mind it takes most of the good receivers three years. There is a lot to learn about the NFL and nuances of the position) Ginn has talent. He is a STARTING wide receiver on a Bill Parcells team. That is a FACT. He was considered pretty much UNIVERSALLY to be the second best receiving prospect in the draft two years ago. Perhaps even the fastest prospect in the draft. Teddy is going to be a very fine football player for us, and many of you that can't support him today will INSIST you supported him today, when a couple years from now his is a very accomplished receiver and perhaps YOUR favorite player!

Just one example that stands out. Lets cut these guys some slack though, and get behind them. They want to win MORE than we want them to. Our actions and words DO have an impact, as much as we think they don't, and as much as the players wouldn't admit if asked. It's human nature. Just think before you speak is all.

LET'S SUPPORT THESE GUYS! AND LET'S BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ARIZONA TODAY!!!!!!! GO FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uruguayfinfan
09-14-2008, 01:28 AM
agree 100%.

Nosferatu
09-14-2008, 01:31 AM
God I'm sick of threads like this. If people want to be critical, it doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

Dolfan5000
09-14-2008, 01:32 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/miami-dolphins/story/685593.html

There was recently a thread on this board about whether or not players actually are aware and look at this message board. Well we are aware correct? I would say the chances are pretty damn good they are as well.

The bottom line is this. If you are really a fan. Then PROVE IT! If you want your team to win SO BAD then SUPPORT THEM! Stop putting unrealistic expectations on high draft picks for example. When there are several factors involved in their evolution as a player that we could NEVER begin to fathom. So many around here talk so much verbal diarrhea without first off supporting ANYTHING they say by ANY facts whatsoever. If you don't have facts thats fine, great to have an opinion about things as well, but please at least have a basis for your interpretation of some event by SUPPORTING your theory. Keep in mind, in some way shape or form, the information DOES make it back to the players.

If we are fans then lets support our team. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. You want to point fingers? Let's do it to the coaching staff, lol. They can take it. Keep in mind, most of the players are barely out of college. They barely know who they are as men yet. We look up to them etc, but they are people as well. Think how some of the criticism levied here would feel if you were the one being attacked. Sometimes the money wouldnt even be worth it. And don't think for a second that sometimes, some of these guys don't think that way.

So let's be positive! Let's support our team, that we are so passionate about! Let's just ENJOY watching our team...and hopefully we'll have some success along the way!

Oh and for the record. If you want to talk FACTS. Let's talk facts. Brady Quinn SO FAR is the bust. Ted Ginn has an INFINATELY more producive player in HIS BRIEF ONE YEAR NFL CAREER. The guy has talent. That is a FACT. He was considered pretty much UNIVERSALLY to be the second best receiving prospect in the draft two years ago. Perhaps even the fastest prospect in the draft. Teddy is going to be a very fine football player for us, and many of you that can't support him today will INSIST you supported him today, when a couple years from now his is a very accomplished receiver and perhaps YOUR favorite player!

Just one example that stands out. Lets cut these guys some slack though, and get behind them. They want to win MORE than we want them to. Our actions and words DO have an impact, as much as we think they don't, and as much as the players wouldn't admit if asked. It's human nature. Just think before you speak is all.

LET'S SUPPORT THESE GUYS! AND LET'S BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ARIZONA TODAY!!!!!!! GO FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a breath of fresh air. A+ post and I totally agree. I can't believe all the negative threads we had this past week. 1 6 point loss to a division rival (not like we're coming off a 1-15 season or anything either) and Sparano, Ginn, Pennington and everyone else sucks? Get real. Support the team! We ALMOST won last week. The game was dissapointing in the end yes but that doesn't mean the team can't work on the mistakes and play better football week to week.

shula_guy
09-14-2008, 01:33 AM
The negative posts that bother you so much will go away when they start winning. If the player dont like reading negative posts by some of the members here, I would suggest to them to start finding ways to win games.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 01:37 AM
God I'm sick of threads like this. If people want to be critical, it doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

First off . Did you HAPPEN TO READ THE ARTICLE????? Secondly, it's with the article in mind that this post was made.
Third. does it say ANYWHERE in the post that somebody is a BETTER fan than somebody else?????
4. don't remember seeing another thread on this topic - if so then please go ahead and merge it for me

afishfan
09-14-2008, 01:39 AM
The negative posts that bother you so much will go away when they start winning. If the player dont like reading negative posts by some of the members here, I would suggest to them to start finding ways to win games.

OR MAYBE just MAYBE. the fans START to FOCUS on the positive and appreciate what we have and IN TURN the players start to win games. hmm. guess you missed the point of the post.

shula_guy
09-14-2008, 01:44 AM
OR MAYBE just MAYBE. the fans START to FOCUS on the positive and appreciate what we have and IN TURN the players start to win games. hmm. guess you missed the point of the post.

I did not miss the point of your post. I respect and tolerate differing opinions. your post is not based on facts and i tolerate it just as i tolerate negative posts. everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.

JRRYDAH21
09-14-2008, 01:49 AM
I did not miss the point of your post. I respect and tolerate differing opinions. your post is not based on facts and i tolerate it just as i tolerate negative posts. everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.


wuteva

PhinSoldia
09-14-2008, 01:51 AM
truth be told I love the negative threads of people that wish to be sports reporters people who are the living room head coachs and especially those living out childhood fantasies through the sucess of the team... It's all comedy to me but everybody has an opinion... The curse of the first amendment is that they have the right to voice that opinion no matter how stupid it is

Gonzo
09-14-2008, 01:51 AM
wuteva
well said...

afishfan
09-14-2008, 01:52 AM
I did not miss the point of your post. I respect and tolerate differing opinions. your post is not based on facts and i tolerate it just as i tolerate negative posts. everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.

Dave? Dave Shula is that you?? Great job with the bengals buddy. Glad you landed on your feet!

kud
09-14-2008, 01:54 AM
I'll be positive if we beat Arizona. If not, i'm stickin with negative.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 01:56 AM
I did not miss the point of your post. I respect and tolerate differing opinions. your post is not based on facts and i tolerate it just as i tolerate negative posts. everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.

Don't remember stating ONE opinion in the post either. outside of saying that ted ginn will be a productive player. That's the only OPINION. The rest was perhaps an appeal? NO OPINIONS stated. only facts and appeals sorry.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 01:57 AM
I'll be positive if we beat Arizona. If not, i'm stickin with negative.

LOL. fair enough

shula_guy
09-14-2008, 02:07 AM
Don't remember stating ONE opinion in the post either. outside of saying that ted ginn will be a productive player. That's the only OPINION. The rest was perhaps an appeal? NO OPINIONS stated. only facts and appeals sorry.


just because im bored i am going highlight everything in your original post that is an opinion




There was recently a thread on this board about whether or not players actually are aware and look at this message board. Well we are aware correct? I would say the chances are pretty damn good they are as well.

The bottom line is this. If you are really a fan. Then PROVE IT! If you want your team to win SO BAD then SUPPORT THEM! Stop putting unrealistic expectations on high draft picks for example. When there are several factors involved in their evolution as a player that we could NEVER begin to fathom. So many around here talk so much verbal diarrhea without first off supporting ANYTHING they say by ANY facts whatsoever. If you don't have facts thats fine, great to have an opinion about things as well, but please at least have a basis for your interpretation of some event by SUPPORTING your theory. Keep in mind, in some way shape or form, the information DOES make it back to the players.

If we are fans then lets support our team. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. You want to point fingers? Let's do it to the coaching staff, lol. They can take it. Keep in mind, most of the players are barely out of college. They barely know who they are as men yet. We look up to them etc, but they are people as well. Think how some of the criticism levied here would feel if you were the one being attacked. Sometimes the money wouldnt even be worth it. And don't think for a second that sometimes, some of these guys don't think that way.

So let's be positive! Let's support our team, that we are so passionate about! Let's just ENJOY watching our team...and hopefully we'll have some success along the way!

Oh and for the record. If you want to talk FACTS. Let's talk facts. Brady Quinn SO FAR is the bust. Ted Ginn has, so far, been an INFINATELY more producive player in HIS BRIEF ONE YEAR NFL CAREER. Ginn has had production ON THE FIELD. Brady can't even get a snap. Look at the facts. If we had drafted Quinn and he still hadn't stepped on the field, would we still be treating HIM this way? Give Teddy Ginn time (you want to talk a little smack at the END of NEXT year if he hasn't been productive? Go ahead talk A LITTLE. But keep in mind it takes most of the good receivers three years. There is a lot to learn about the NFL and nuances of the position) Ginn has talent. He is a STARTING wide receiver on a Bill Parcells team. That is a FACT. He was considered pretty much UNIVERSALLY to be the second best receiving prospect in the draft two years ago. Perhaps even the fastest prospect in the draft. Teddy is going to be a very fine football player for us, and many of you that can't support him today will INSIST you supported him today, when a couple years from now his is a very accomplished receiver and perhaps YOUR favorite player!

Just one example that stands out. Lets cut these guys some slack though, and get behind them. They want to win MORE than we want them to. Our actions and words DO have an impact, as much as we think they don't, and as much as the players wouldn't admit if asked. It's human nature. Just think before you speak is all.

LET'S SUPPORT THESE GUYS! AND LET'S BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ARIZONA TODAY!!!!!!! GO FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kud
09-14-2008, 02:08 AM
LOL. fair enough

No worries, I don't start "venting threads." Which i'm sure that is what you're on about.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 02:25 AM
just because im bored i am going highlight everything in your original post that is an opinion



There was recently a thread on this board about whether or not players actually are aware and look at this message board. Well we are aware correct? I would say the chances are pretty damn good they are as well.

The bottom line is this. If you are really a fan. Then PROVE IT! If you want your team to win SO BAD then SUPPORT THEM! Stop putting unrealistic expectations on high draft picks for example. When there are several factors involved in their evolution as a player that we could NEVER begin to fathom. So many around here talk so much verbal diarrhea without first off supporting ANYTHING they say by ANY facts whatsoever. If you don't have facts thats fine, great to have an opinion about things as well, but please at least have a basis for your interpretation of some event by SUPPORTING your theory. Keep in mind, in some way shape or form, the information DOES make it back to the players.

If we are fans then lets support our team. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. You want to point fingers? Let's do it to the coaching staff, lol. They can take it. Keep in mind, most of the players are barely out of college. They barely know who they are as men yet. We look up to them etc, but they are people as well. Think how some of the criticism levied here would feel if you were the one being attacked. Sometimes the money wouldnt even be worth it. And don't think for a second that sometimes, some of these guys don't think that way.

So let's be positive! Let's support our team, that we are so passionate about! Let's just ENJOY watching our team...and hopefully we'll have some success along the way!

Oh and for the record. If you want to talk FACTS. Let's talk facts. Brady Quinn SO FAR is the bust. Ted Ginn has, so far, been an INFINATELY more producive player in HIS BRIEF ONE YEAR NFL CAREER. Ginn has had production ON THE FIELD. Brady can't even get a snap. Look at the facts. If we had drafted Quinn and he still hadn't stepped on the field, would we still be treating HIM this way? Give Teddy Ginn time (you want to talk a little smack at the END of NEXT year if he hasn't been productive? Go ahead talk A LITTLE. But keep in mind it takes most of the good receivers three years. There is a lot to learn about the NFL and nuances of the position) Ginn has talent. He is a STARTING wide receiver on a Bill Parcells team. That is a FACT. He was considered pretty much UNIVERSALLY to be the second best receiving prospect in the draft two years ago. Perhaps even the fastest prospect in the draft. Teddy is going to be a very fine football player for us, and many of you that can't support him today will INSIST you supported him today, when a couple years from now his is a very accomplished receiver and perhaps YOUR favorite player!

Just one example that stands out. Lets cut these guys some slack though, and get behind them. They want to win MORE than we want them to. Our actions and words DO have an impact, as much as we think they don't, and as much as the players wouldn't admit if asked. It's human nature. Just think before you speak is all.

LET'S SUPPORT THESE GUYS! AND LET'S BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ARIZONA TODAY!!!!!!! GO FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ok if you have that much time on your hands then at least get your OPINIONS of what my opinions are correct please. the three year thing was an opinion as well you are correct. one that was supported by facts on production of wide receivers and also here is this article by none other than oj mcduffie. opinion: i think he knows a little bit about the matter.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2008/09/13/a1b_dolphins_0914.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=46

the they barely know who they are yet is an opinion. I bet if you want to argue AGAINST that opinion, I bet we can find an overwhelming bias towards that opinion from men 30 and above looking back on their lives at that age.

The Brady Quinn comment is 'assumed' based on the context of the paragraph to be based off of the information many here use to define Ted Ginn as a bust. Quinn's production on the field based on that defines him as a bust. and that is A FACT friend. I'm not saying he is a bust. Im defining the criteria used by others and then using that criteria that is used by others simply to classify. IT IS NOT MY OPINION. I DONT actually feel that way.

I think you do have too much time on your hands (OPINION) and your info Is NOT all accurate (FACT). but I dont feel like wasting my time to dissect it. its not the point of the thread anyways

Bill C
09-14-2008, 02:30 AM
Dude - you lost all credibility when you went on the Quinn vs. Ginn tirade. First off, no one is talking about what Quinn is or isn't - but Ginn was the #9 pick and it is hard justifying him being on the field with arguably one of the worst receiving corps in the history of the NFL. If you want to compare Ginn's status compare him to the players that we needed who were either in reach of that pick or available at that pick - here, I'll name a few for you: Landry, Willis, Okoye, Revis, Quinn. Our secondary was in shambles - Landry or Revis would have done a lot to solidify it. Objective fans knew Zach was a concussion case and should have been traded last season - we could have drafted Willis - a franchise MLB. Our DL was in trouble with age and injuries - we could have drafted Okoye. Get it yet? We had real NEEDS on this team and we had an opportunity to fill a need with a franchise level player. Instead, we took a chance for an injured unpolished WR who did not finish in the top 50 in any statistical category as a WR nor in the top 25 in any statistical category as a returner during his last season in college.

While Ginn may or may not be a bust - the pick certainly is a bust based on who we picked when compared to whom we could have picked given our needs at the time and the contributions they have made to their respective teams compared to what Ginn has done for us. And THAT is the focal point of most fans frustrations - we passed over those guys, for this? Understand?

shula_guy
09-14-2008, 02:31 AM
dont take it the wrong way I wasnt saying I disagreed or agreed I was only pointing out that everything in red is an opinion not a fact

afishfan
09-14-2008, 02:45 AM
Dude - you lost all credibility when you went on the Quinn vs. Ginn tirade. First off, no one is talking about what Quinn is or isn't - but Ginn was the #9 pick and it is hard justifying him being on the field with arguably one of the worst receiving corps in the history of the NFL. If you want to compare Ginn's status compare him to the players that we needed who were either in reach of that pick or available at that pick - here, I'll name a few for you: Landry, Willis, Okoye, Revis, Quinn. Our secondary was in shambles - Landry or Revis would have done a lot to solidify it. Objective fans knew Zach was a concussion case and should have been traded last season - we could have drafted Willis - a franchise MLB. Our DL was in trouble with age and injuries - we could have drafted Okoye. Get it yet? We had real NEEDS on this team and we had an opportunity to fill a need with a franchise level player. Instead, we took a chance for an injured unpolished WR who did not finish in the top 50 in any statistical category as a WR nor in the top 25 in any statistical category as a returner during his last season in college.

While Ginn may or may not be a bust - the pick certainly is a bust based on who we picked when compared to whom we could have picked given our needs at the time and the contributions they have made to their respective teams compared to what Ginn has done for us. And THAT is the focal point of most fans frustrations - we passed over those guys, for this? Understand?

"the pick certainly is a bust"? By your own account we have problems at receiver. Again. Go listen to what OJ MCDuffie has to say about himself and what is said about MARK DUPER in that article. middle linebackers can play in some systems and be productive. receivers and QBs typically struggle early. McDuffie even said the THIRD year was how long it took for him. Okeye had a like four sack early and then blanked.. get it? have you broken down the film? is he really that great?

So by your account we should never draft a receiver??? cause if they are not productive in their first year they are a bust??? The ninth pick was not a bust. In fact, it's really pretty ignorant to talk about it EITHER way until we can look back on it 5-10 years from now. MY WHOLE POINT OF THE POST. Unrealistic expectations based on lack of information.

67Stang
09-14-2008, 02:53 AM
Here is a fact, some people are just negative. The sad thing is, they aren't happy if everyone else isn't miserable and negative too. They expect immediate results, and for us to be play off contendors 1 year after going 1-15. They call players like Beck and Ginn busts after one year on a bad team...sad, sad, sad.

ThaGame17
09-14-2008, 02:57 AM
God I'm sick of threads like this. If people want to be critical, it doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.


last time i checked.... a FAN was someone who supports a team.... key word is SUPPORT

if you want to be negetive and critical of a team, thats what we like to call a "CRITIC"

im not gonna come on this board and start telling people if they are a fan or not because i dont know anything about them besides what i read on here.... so if you dont know anything about some of the players (besides the fact that they play football) then i would suggest getting off their back.

Forgive me for saying this because i know its been beaten to death, but if you couldnt do a better job than these players than you might wanna keep quiet.. and if you could do a better job, then i suggest trying out for the team....

also, im not saying im positive alll the time, i dont think anyone on here is... most devoted fans probably get disappointed after a loss, but theres no need to come on these boards and rip the players...

SpaceMountain16
09-14-2008, 03:00 AM
last time i checked.... a FAN was someone who supports a team.... key word is SUPPORT

if you want to be negetive and critical of a team, thats what we like to call a "CRITIC"

im not gonna come on this board and start telling people if they are a fan or not because i dont know anything about them besides what i read on here.... so if you dont know anything about some of the players (besides the fact that they play football) then i would suggest getting off their back.

Forgive me for saying this because i know its been beaten to death, but if you couldnt do a better job than these players than you might wanna keep quiet.. and if you could do a better job, then i suggest trying out for the team....

also, im not saying im positive alll the time, i dont think anyone on here is... most devoted fans probably get disappointed after a loss, but theres no need to come on these boards and rip the players...

Positivity doesn't win games
Negativity doesn't lose games

If everyone wants to sit here and be positive all the time that's fine. Love every move Parcells/Ireland make, every play Sparano/Hennig calls, every pass Pennington throws. That's fine.

Just don't count me in on that idiocy.....

afishfan
09-14-2008, 03:02 AM
Dude - you lost all credibility when you went on the Quinn vs. Ginn tirade. First off, no one is talking about what Quinn is or isn't - but Ginn was the #9 pick and it is hard justifying him being on the field with arguably one of the worst receiving corps in the history of the NFL. If you want to compare Ginn's status compare him to the players that we needed who were either in reach of that pick or available at that pick - here, I'll name a few for you: Landry, Willis, Okoye, Revis, Quinn. Our secondary was in shambles - Landry or Revis would have done a lot to solidify it. Objective fans knew Zach was a concussion case and should have been traded last season - we could have drafted Willis - a franchise MLB. Our DL was in trouble with age and injuries - we could have drafted Okoye. Get it yet? We had real NEEDS on this team and we had an opportunity to fill a need with a franchise level player. Instead, we took a chance for an injured unpolished WR who did not finish in the top 50 in any statistical category as a WR nor in the top 25 in any statistical category as a returner during his last season in college.

While Ginn may or may not be a bust - the pick certainly is a bust based on who we picked when compared to whom we could have picked given our needs at the time and the contributions they have made to their respective teams compared to what Ginn has done for us. And THAT is the focal point of most fans frustrations - we passed over those guys, for this? Understand?

Care to reexamine your claims as far as Ted Ginn's senior year of college? At least get your facts straight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=rec&group=80&year=2006&sort=rectds

SpaceMountain16
09-14-2008, 03:05 AM
Care to reexamine your claims as far as Ted Ginn's senior year of college? At least get your facts straight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=rec&group=80&year=2006&sort=rectds

You're pulling out Ginn's COLLEGE statistics? Have you ever even watched an Ohio State game? Ginn's counterpart Anthony Gonzalez is lower on that list then Ginn is and there isn't a big 10 player in like the top 40. You're taking a player from the Buckeyes and comparing him to pass happy warm weather recievers who play on teams that air it out much more, in more games. That's just stupid.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 03:06 AM
Positivity doesn't win games
Negativity doesn't lose games
.....

LMFAO!!! yep your right. Im sure teams that go into a games thinking they are going to lose, win right?

Not a chance in hell.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 03:09 AM
You're pulling out Ginn's COLLEGE statistics? Have you ever even watched an Ohio State game? Ginn's counterpart Anthony Gonzalez is lower on that list then Ginn is and there isn't a big 10 player in like the top 40. You're taking a player from the Buckeyes and comparing him to pass happy warm weather recievers who play on teams that air it out much more, in more games. That's just stupid.

Thanks dude you just PROVED my point for me anyways. You mentioned Ted Ginn wasnt in the top 50 in any catagory. The fact is you were wrong. then you backed up the fact you were wrong and supported my point anyways by saying he wasnt in a pass happy offense. I AGREE with you.

SpaceMountain16
09-14-2008, 03:10 AM
LMFAO!!! yep your right. Im sure teams that go into a games thinking they are going to lose, win right?

Not a chance in hell.

Well i meant on message boards, by fans. If i make 100 threads a day about how good Bill Parcells is or 100 threads a day about how awful Chad Pennington is, it doesn't effect the Dolphins either way. My being positive and negative. If i go to Phoenix tomorrow and boo the hell out of Chad Pennington every incompletion and cheer him every completion it doesn't help the Dolphins win or lose the game. So when people say fans should be positive kool aid drinking conformists.....they're wrong.

Oh and positivity and negativity don't win or lose games on the field either. I'm sure and i hope the Dolphins believe they are going to win games every week.....but they don't. Positivity isn't helping us too much in the last 21 regular season games.

SpaceMountain16
09-14-2008, 03:12 AM
Thanks dude you just PROVED my point for me anyways. You mentioned Ted Ginn wasnt in the top 50 in any catagory. The fact is you were wrong. then you backed up the fact you were wrong and supported my point anyways by saying he wasnt in a pass happy offense. I AGREE with you.

I apologize, i mis-read your post thinking it was an anti Ginn one. An unmerited anti-Ginn one because the guy was a terrific player in college.

MadDog 88
09-14-2008, 03:23 AM
Well i meant on message boards, by fans. If i make 100 threads a day about how good Bill Parcells is or 100 threads a day about how awful Chad Pennington is, it doesn't effect the Dolphins either way. My being positive and negative. If i go to Phoenix tomorrow and boo the hell out of Chad Pennington every incompletion and cheer him every completion it doesn't help the Dolphins win or lose the game. So when people say fans should be positive kool aid drinking conformists.....they're wrong.

Oh and positivity and negativity don't win or lose games on the field either. I'm sure and i hope the Dolphins believe they are going to win games every week.....but they don't. Positivity isn't helping us too much in the last 21 regular season games.

Are you saying that believing in yourselves as a team has no outcome on performance on the field?

SpaceMountain16
09-14-2008, 03:26 AM
Are you saying that believing in yourselves as a team has no outcome on performance on the field?

I'm saying it doesn't win games.....Just because you're positive doesn't mean you're more talented than you're opponent. Doesn't mean you execute better. Doesn't mean you win.

Negativity perhaps would hinder your performance. Teams who expect to lose and play to lose.....lose.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 03:28 AM
I apologize, i mis-read your post thinking it was an anti Ginn one. An unmerited anti-Ginn one because the guy was a terrific player in college.

I'm pro Ginn, but thats irrelevent and my opinion doesnt matter (and we could debate this all day...but i think there is more to support why he will be fine then otherwise)...

really the whole point of the thread is lets not label players as 'busts' after one year. it makes no sense. If we want to talk about Eric Kumerow or Yatil Green as a bust thats fine. Just ignorant to label just about any guy in his second year a bust.

The article i originally posted quite clearly lays out the fact that YES INDEED fans booing an supporting their players DO affect their performance on the field. And if everybody wants to remain critical......then go right ahead...but just keep in mind your bs....can and does lead to more things for you to ***** about. AND THAT IS A FACT.

Do you think Vince Young wants to go out and win games right now in Tennessee? Or is in the right frame of mind to do so? If the guy is the starting QB....quite obviously the coaching staff thinks he gives them the best chance to win. Yet the fans booed him last week in a win....and as a result he had an episode (I'm not saying he should have or he didnt react poorly.....not saying he's mentally tough or isnt....) but the fact is this situation happened...and guess what...as a result Tennessee is likely not as prepared to win as they would have been without this distraction this week and the questions it now posses in Tennessee.

SO if you are a fan and you want your team to win, and it means so much to you that you ***** about them when they suck.....JUST SUPPORT THEM and stop bitching...thats all im saying......and if you like to ***** cause your life is miserable...then just keep go on bitching...and I promise you will have plenty to ***** about ALL the time in your life. PROMISE.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 03:36 AM
dont take it the wrong way I wasnt saying I disagreed or agreed I was only pointing out that everything in red is an opinion not a fact

and I simply pointed out that 'everything in red' was NOT an opinion as you pointed out, and therefore you were providing incorrect information. So all I ask is in the future if you feel compelled to edit my post in pretty colors for grammatical errors, spelling errors, punctuation, opinions, facts, or otherwise, please just edit it correctly, and not just your OPINION of what correct is. Thank you.

SpaceMountain16
09-14-2008, 03:43 AM
I'm pro Ginn, but thats irrelevent and my opinion doesnt matter (and we could debate this all day...but i think there is more to support why he will be fine then otherwise)...

really the whole point of the thread is lets not label players as 'busts' after one year. it makes no sense. If we want to talk about Eric Kumerow or Yatil Green as a bust thats fine. Just ignorant to label just about any guy in his second year a bust.

The article i originally posted quite clearly lays out the fact that YES INDEED fans booing an supporting their players DO affect their performance on the field. And if everybody wants to remain critical......then go right ahead...but just keep in mind your bs....can and does lead to more things for you to ***** about. AND THAT IS A FACT.

Do you think Vince Young wants to go out and win games right now in Tennessee? Or is in the right frame of mind to do so? If the guy is the starting QB....quite obviously the coaching staff thinks he gives them the best chance to win. Yet the fans booed him last week in a win....and as a result he had an episode (I'm not saying he should have or he didnt react poorly.....not saying he's mentally tough or isnt....) but the fact is this situation happened...and guess what...as a result Tennessee is likely not as prepared to win as they would have been without this distraction this week and the questions it now posses in Tennessee.

SO if you are a fan and you want your team to win, and it means so much to you that you ***** about them when they suck.....JUST SUPPORT THEM and stop bitching...thats all im saying......and if you like to ***** cause your life is miserable...then just keep go on bitching...and I promise you will have plenty to ***** about ALL the time in your life. PROMISE.

I agree with you 100% on Ginn, 100%. I personally like Ginn and think he will turn out well, but i'm not going to condemn him as a bust until he is officially a bust, and i'm not going to annoint him great until it is apparent he actually is.

As for the other.....

Bringing up Vince Young to the argument that fans negativity hurts players is irrelevant. Especially when i can tell you that the reigning Super Bowl MVP has and probably will continue to see boo's for his entire career.

The point is, Fans have the freedom to root in anyway they want, they gain that right the second they spend their money on the team they root for. I'm no less happy of a human being just because i am critical of the Dolphins on occassion. But with the time and effort i spend on this team, in money or in just pure passion, i gain the right to be critical and i choose to voice my opinion when i am concerned about this team.

MadDog 88
09-14-2008, 03:43 AM
I'm saying it doesn't win games.....Just because you're positive doesn't mean you're more talented than you're opponent. Doesn't mean you execute better. Doesn't mean you win.

Negativity perhaps would hinder your performance. Teams who expect to lose and play to lose.....lose.

It may not neccessarily make you win with a team of our talent level against a team of the Pats talent level but it definitely effects the outcome. I am interested to see if the Pats come out with the same swagger against the Jets Sunday as they have had for the last several years.

You could see last year how excited the Phins were when Camarillo scored the winner and they got the monkey off their back. But it was as if once they got the win, they quit the last two against the Pats and Bengals.

afishfan
09-14-2008, 03:58 AM
I agree with you 100% on Ginn, 100%. I personally like Ginn and think he will turn out well, but i'm not going to condemn him as a bust until he is officially a bust, and i'm not going to annoint him great until it is apparent he actually is.

As for the other.....

Bringing up Vince Young to the argument that fans negativity hurts players is irrelevant. Especially when i can tell you that the reigning Super Bowl MVP has and probably will continue to see boo's for his entire career.

The point is, Fans have the freedom to root in anyway they want, they gain that right the second they spend their money on the team they root for. I'm no less happy of a human being just because i am critical of the Dolphins on occassion. But with the time and effort i spend on this team, in money or in just pure passion, i gain the right to be critical and i choose to voice my opinion when i am concerned about this team.

Yep. They have the right to boo and ***** and anything they want, doesnt change the fact that it is ignorant. And it doesnt change the fact that it can have an adverse affect on the team they root for. you think vince young fans are happy that this has happened right now? and where are all those ricky bashers we had a couple years ago? funny don't hear about it anymore and everybody loves him isnt it?

If anybody wants to root for the dolphins yet unconsciously resent some players because they in some way shape or form feel inadequate themselves and being critical of the players makes them feel better about themselves. Then go right ahead and keep doing it. Just realize that's whats really going on.

shula_guy
09-14-2008, 04:34 AM
and I simply pointed out that 'everything in red' was NOT an opinion as you pointed out, and therefore you were providing incorrect information. So all I ask is in the future if you feel compelled to edit my post in pretty colors for grammatical errors, spelling errors, punctuation, opinions, facts, or otherwise, please just edit it correctly, and not just your OPINION of what correct is. Thank you.


I stand behind everything I highlighted in your opinionated post. If you want to break it down sentence by sentence, go for it. Show whichever sentences you think are facts and that I mistakenly highlighted.

When you get done doing that you can do us all a great service and make us bad fans a list of what the criteria is to be a good fan since you seem to be the resident self proclaimed authority.

Please enlighten us as to :
1. How many games we should attend each season to quailify to call ourselves fans

2. how many hot dogs and beers we should buy at those games

3. how many team jerseys we must own

4. how loud we are suppose to cheer

5. when its ok to be upset by a players subpar performance

6. when its appropiate to admitt a player is a bust


Please tell us all how to be a good fan.

When you finish telling us that I recomend you look up the definition of what a fact an an opinion is. You apparentaly don't understand the difference. Just like you dont know enough to quit while you were ahead.

Brassmonki14120
09-14-2008, 05:19 AM
Positive attitudes don't win football games. An inspirational Haiku does.

Flip Tanneflop
09-14-2008, 11:15 AM
God I'm sick of threads like this. If people want to be critical, it doesn't make them any less of a fan than you.

And more importantly, everyone should stop pretending everyone we draft is a stud on the NFL field until they suck for 3 years. If a guy blows(Beck, J.Allen) then he just blows.

And when a guy is first drafted he shouldnt be made out to be a HOFer before he ever plays.

Flip Tanneflop
09-14-2008, 11:16 AM
The negative posts that bother you so much will go away when they start winning. If the player dont like reading negative posts by some of the members here, I would suggest to them to start finding ways to win games.

Knowing the playbook so that we dont have to burn critical timeouts that wind up being the difference in the game would be a good start. :up:

Flip Tanneflop
09-14-2008, 11:19 AM
People should also quit pretending that anything we say on this board has any effect at all on whether or not we win games.

And on a side note.....damn, we shouldve drafted Matt Ryan.

Bill C
09-14-2008, 12:01 PM
I believe that if a team is supposed to wait 3 years for a player to "get it" then said team should not have to pay said player anything above the league minimum until such time as that happens.

PHINPHOURLIFE
09-19-2008, 07:06 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/miami-dolphins/story/685593.html

There was recently a thread on this board about whether or not players actually are aware and look at this message board. Well we are aware correct? I would say the chances are pretty damn good they are as well.

The bottom line is this. If you are really a fan. Then PROVE IT! If you want your team to win SO BAD then SUPPORT THEM! Stop putting unrealistic expectations on high draft picks for example. When there are several factors involved in their evolution as a player that we could NEVER begin to fathom. So many around here talk so much verbal diarrhea without first off supporting ANYTHING they say by ANY facts whatsoever. If you don't have facts thats fine, great to have an opinion about things as well, but please at least have a basis for your interpretation of some event by SUPPORTING your theory. Keep in mind, in some way shape or form, the information DOES make it back to the players.

If we are fans then lets support our team. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. You want to point fingers? Let's do it to the coaching staff, lol. They can take it. Keep in mind, most of the players are barely out of college. They barely know who they are as men yet. We look up to them etc, but they are people as well. Think how some of the criticism levied here would feel if you were the one being attacked. Sometimes the money wouldnt even be worth it. And don't think for a second that sometimes, some of these guys don't think that way.

So let's be positive! Let's support our team, that we are so passionate about! Let's just ENJOY watching our team...and hopefully we'll have some success along the way!

Oh and for the record. If you want to talk FACTS. Let's talk facts. Brady Quinn SO FAR is the bust. Ted Ginn has, so far, been an INFINATELY more producive player in HIS BRIEF ONE YEAR NFL CAREER. Ginn has had production ON THE FIELD. Brady can't even get a snap. Look at the facts. If we had drafted Quinn and he still hadn't stepped on the field, would we still be treating HIM this way? Give Teddy Ginn time (you want to talk a little smack at the END of NEXT year if he hasn't been productive? Go ahead talk A LITTLE. But keep in mind it takes most of the good receivers three years. There is a lot to learn about the NFL and nuances of the position) Ginn has talent. He is a STARTING wide receiver on a Bill Parcells team. That is a FACT. He was considered pretty much UNIVERSALLY to be the second best receiving prospect in the draft two years ago. Perhaps even the fastest prospect in the draft. Teddy is going to be a very fine football player for us, and many of you that can't support him today will INSIST you supported him today, when a couple years from now his is a very accomplished receiver and perhaps YOUR favorite player!

Just one example that stands out. Lets cut these guys some slack though, and get behind them. They want to win MORE than we want them to. Our actions and words DO have an impact, as much as we think they don't, and as much as the players wouldn't admit if asked. It's human nature. Just think before you speak is all.

LET'S SUPPORT THESE GUYS! AND LET'S BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ARIZONA TODAY!!!!!!! GO FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After reading the article some of the players do not appreciate getting booed and it affects them mentally. wah! quit go get a 5 day 40hr week and deal with the day to day BS we deal with. we dont have someone at work to help us mentally . it comes with the territory if you cant handle it then maybe your not cut out for the job. If I played and people booed me I would laugh at them knowing I am going home to my fat pad, and all my other toys. Most peoples first reaction when your team loses is to boo and be upset. thats life deal with it. suck it up and stay postive. Keep reminding yourself how lucky you are, thats what I do. It can always be worst. GO PHINS!