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MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 03:45 PM
Don't shoot the messenger!

I found this on another site of bloggers, it was a interesting back and forth. I thought long and hard, but my curiousity got the best of me and I wanted to know what you guys think "do white people think this way and why"...so I'm asking you guys to read it and comment on it.. The premise as I read it is whites think one way when it's them and another way if it's a minority..under the same circumstances. So what do you guys think..

[edited link, now you can read the whole thing]


Quote:White Privilege, White Entitlement and the 2008 ElectionShare
Today at 9:07pm
By Tim Wise

For those who still can’t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are constantly looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.


http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=106899383&blogID=432871257
__________________

Dolphan7
09-17-2008, 04:08 PM
:broken:

ohall
09-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Don't shoot the messenger!

I found this on another site of bloggers, it was a interesting back and forth. I thought long and hard, but my curiousity got the best of me and I wanted to know you guys think "do white people think this way and why"...so I'm asking you guys to read it and comment on it.. The premise as I read it is whites think one way when it's them and another way if it's a minority..under the same circumstances. So what do you guys think..



http://www.new.facebook.com/note.php...id=26622203585
__________________

I've never heard anyone even remotely say anything like that. And I can't remember the last time someone running for VP who had a child that was pregnant and that child was not married.

If someone is trying to compare situations they should at least try and make it an apples to apples situation.

FinFatale
09-17-2008, 04:37 PM
I've never heard anyone even remotely say anything like that. And I can't remember the last time someone running for VP who had a child that was pregnant and that child was not married.

If someone is trying to compare situations they should at least try and make it an apples to apples situation.


I agree.:up:

MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 04:37 PM
:broken:

Thanks, apparently they took it down, but I found another site and fixed my original link, plus here it is here:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=106899383&blogID=432871257

FinFatale
09-17-2008, 05:02 PM
hmm how is talking about Affirmative action or other " minority privledges" anymore " racist than talking about " white " privledge? ( I just read the entire article now that the link is fixed )

MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 05:07 PM
hmm how is talking about Affirmative action or other " minority privledges" anymore " racist than talking about " white " privledge? ( I just read the entire article now that the link is fixed )

This is where I don't want the conversation to go..we've talked affirmative action until we're blue in the face.. Since this was a white guy who wrote this I wanted to see if you guys agree...I can't say as a black guy... So please keep it from the premise he's writing and let's not turn it into a black vs white, non article issue..this is the perceptions of a white guy, as white americans, do you guys agree with him and if not, why or if you do, why?

MoFinz
09-17-2008, 05:12 PM
It's not from CNN...i don't believe it :wink:

Seriously....what's gonna happen when whites become a minority and all of a sudden these quotas and numbers start to swing back to the whites? Will these programs disappear and disenfranchise a whole segment of the population they were created to protect? Or will it just be "oh well, now we're even" and we can FINALLY move on?

just wondering

As far as priveledge....can't really say as i've been priveledged using the authors criteria. Maybe i'm just the white trash at the bottom of the supremecy pond

MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 05:16 PM
It's not from CNN...i don't believe it :wink:

Seriously....what's gonna happen when whites become a minority and all of a sudden these quotas and numbers start to swing back to the whites? Will these programs disappear and disenfranchise a whole segment of the population they were created to protect? Or will it just be "oh well, now we're even" and we can FINALLY move on?

just wondering

As far as priveledge....can't really say as i've been priveledged using the authors criteria. Maybe i'm just the white trash at the bottom of the supremecy pond

You'll pay for that....:D

MoFinz
09-17-2008, 05:17 PM
You'll pay for that....:D


:woot:
:hi5:

WSE
09-17-2008, 05:22 PM
I like the article....a lot of them are true imo

some I like



White privilege is being able to graduate near the bottom of your college class (McCain), or graduate with a C average from Yale (W.) and that's OK, and you're cut out to be president, but if you're black and you graduate near the top of your class from Harvard Law, you can't be trusted to make good decisions in office.

White privilege is being able to dump your first wife after she's disfigured in a car crash so you can take up with a multi-millionaire beauty queen (who you go on to call the c-word in public) and still be thought of as a man of strong family values, while if you're black and married for nearly twenty years to the same woman, your family is viewed as un-American and your gestures of affection for each other are called "terrorist fist bumps."

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."

White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough for the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until the 1950s--while believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requires it), is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a "****in' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll "kick their ****in' ***," and talk about how you like to "shoot ****" for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

phinfan3411
09-17-2008, 05:38 PM
As I have said before I believe racism without a doubt is real, and is everywhere. I also think it is a two way street.

I think the article, or blog is garbage, I am beyond tired of racism being brought into this election, and everywhere else everyday.

I wish Alan Keyes were the republican candidate so we would not have to hear all this idiocy.

Just to shoot down the first point of this blog, I do not have any problem with Bristol Palin because of the way she is handling the situation. As far as I know she is not on any state or federal assistance for her medical or the babies care. If I am wrong about that I will change my mind.

I have talked about a situation in my family where a ex-boyfriend of a family member has a child with her, and a few other girls. He does not work (on the books), does not have much to do with the kids, and at least two of the girls are on some type of assistance, and by the way, the kid is white.

Reading this blog tells me, and others that a guy like me would be fine with this situation, after all, all the people are white, right? Well, this idiot does not know me, and i'm not sure if he knows his *** from a hole in the ground. I think the guy in question needs a attitude adjustment, my wife does not let me talk to him if he comes to a family function, for fear of what I would say.

Eshlemon
09-17-2008, 06:11 PM
Don't shoot the messenger!

I found this on another site of bloggers, it was a interesting back and forth. I thought long and hard, but my curiousity got the best of me and I wanted to know what you guys think "do white people think this way and why"...so I'm asking you guys to read it and comment on it.. The premise as I read it is whites think one way when it's them and another way if it's a minority..under the same circumstances. So what do you guys think..

[edited link, now you can read the whole thing]



http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=106899383&blogID=432871257
__________________


'white privelage', 'racism', 'sexism', 'agism', 'elitist' are rhetoric crutches to lean on in politics to make the Tom Wise's feel better. I like mine and if you don't there's got to be circumstances other than you actually liking the other not the fact I like mine and am going to see him in a better light than you even if they have the same fallacies and vice versa.

Everybody thinks one way about themselves than others and others that don't have something wrong with them. Except me of course...my 'Eshlemon privelige'.

FinFatale
09-17-2008, 06:59 PM
This is where I don't want the conversation to go..we're talked affirmative active until we're blue in the face.. Since this was a white guy who wrote this I wanted to see if you guys agree...I can't say as a black guy... So please keep if from the premise he's writing and let's not turn it into a black vs white, non article issue..this is the perceptions of a white guy, as white americans, do you guys agree with him and if not, why or if you do, why?

well MD I truly don't know where else it could have gone..........

ohall
09-17-2008, 07:02 PM
This is where I don't want the conversation to go..we're talked affirmative active until we're blue in the face.. Since this was a white guy who wrote this I wanted to see if you guys agree...I can't say as a black guy... So please keep if from the premise he's writing and let's not turn it into a black vs white, non article issue..this is the perceptions of a white guy, as white americans, do you guys agree with him and if not, why or if you do, why?

How do you know he was white?

Wait can I ask if he was white? Is that against the rules of the MBoard?

ohall
09-17-2008, 07:04 PM
It's not from CNN...i don't believe it :wink:

Seriously....what's gonna happen when whites become a minority and all of a sudden these quotas and numbers start to swing back to the whites? Will these programs disappear and disenfranchise a whole segment of the population they were created to protect? Or will it just be "oh well, now we're even" and we can FINALLY move on?

just wondering

As far as priveledge....can't really say as i've been priveledged using the authors criteria. Maybe i'm just the white trash at the bottom of the supremecy pond

It won't happen, those rules will be thrown out. I would suspect ppl like Rev. Wright would say it's pay back time and whites deserve it.

finintheburgh
09-17-2008, 07:17 PM
Don't shoot the messenger!

I found this on another site of bloggers, it was a interesting back and forth. I thought long and hard, but my curiousity got the best of me and I wanted to know what you guys think "do white people think this way and why"...so I'm asking you guys to read it and comment on it.. The premise as I read it is whites think one way when it's them and another way if it's a minority..under the same circumstances. So what do you guys think..

[edited link, now you can read the whole thing]



http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=106899383&blogID=432871257
__________________


this is nothing more than an obama supporter tring to make white people feel guilty for not supporting obama. this isnt about being racist, its about white guilt and how he can use it to swing votes to obama.

funny thing is if you change White Privilege and White Entitlement to rich priviledge and rich entitlement you can then make the same case weither your talking black or white

WSE
09-17-2008, 09:45 PM
I dont think this post is about affirmative action, or anything like that

what I got out of it were examples in my opinion on how much harder Obama has had to work to get where he is than guys like Bush and McCain, and how he is scrutinized differently

can an African American become president with a C average? Finishing close to last in his class? Is that possible? Can he be where he is if he flunked out of college?

I dont think so. He worked hard. Near the top of his class in Harvard Law. Head of the Harvard Law Review. Law firms. Community organizing. State Senate. Senate. And now nominee

Also, I think the ones about family are true. He has been with his wife forever, and yet he somehow gets the character attacks.

Would he get the patriot attacks if his name didn't sound middle eastern? Would a flag pin matter so much if he wasn't black? For example, people are talking about him painting over his plane and removing an American flag, yet McCain has never had an american flag on his.

Would people be all over his church if it wasnt a black church? Evangelical white churches say crazy shi* all the time. Would this be a issue if there wasn't a fear of black extremism?

I think Obama has had to deal with a lot more because of his ethnicity. That's mostly what the article deals with, not affirmative action. Not white guilt. Just an opinion that Obama has had to deal with a lot of shi* he normally wouldn't have because of his ethnicity (the Muslim rumors, the churchgate story, his wife, the flag pin, the allegience, ext). And I believe a lot of those things, and I also beleive he has had to work a lot harder to get where he is than his collegues because of his ethnicity.

MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 10:43 PM
How do you know he was white?

Wait can I ask if he was white? Is that against the rules of the MBoard?

:sidelol::sidelol: His picture is to the left of the article, plus he has his on blog site, he's been out there for awhile..

MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 10:46 PM
this is nothing more than an obama supporter tring to make white people feel guilty for not supporting obama. this isnt about being racist, its about white guilt and how he can use it to swing votes to obama.

funny thing is if you change White Privilege and White Entitlement to rich priviledge and rich entitlement you can then make the same case weither your talking black or white


So you're saying that his thoughts aren't true, that's the one point you didn't answer...because I really don't feel the white guilt thing..I think that's used over board as well... it's the anti affirmative action counter... His premise is more it's okay when it's white, but it's something different when it's a minority, do you agree or do you disagree?

finintheburgh
09-17-2008, 10:49 PM
So you're saying that his thoughts aren't true, that's the one point you didn't answer...because I really don't feel the white guilt thing..I think that's used over board as well... it's the anti affirmative action counter... His premise is more it's okay when it's white, but it's something different when it's a minority, do you agree or do you disagree?


disagree. i think its more of a rich and poor thing.

MDFINFAN
09-17-2008, 11:37 PM
disagree. i think its more of a rich and poor thing.

Is that rich whites see it one way and poor whites see it another way

or is it rich white see poor blacks or some combo of that, can you elaborate a little to get a better feel of what you're saying..thanks..

Dolphan7
09-18-2008, 12:25 AM
Well...I can honestly say that white's don't think that way.

Now maybe An Obama supporter and a liberal democrat think that way, but not white people per se.

myke1072
09-18-2008, 05:45 AM
I dont think this post is about affirmative action, or anything like that

what I got out of it were examples in my opinion on how much harder Obama has had to work to get where he is than guys like Bush and McCain, and how he is scrutinized differently

can an African American become president with a C average? Finishing close to last in his class? Is that possible? Can he be where he is if he flunked out of college?

I dont think so. He worked hard. Near the top of his class in Harvard Law. Head of the Harvard Law Review. Law firms. Community organizing. State Senate. Senate. And now nominee

Also, I think the ones about family are true. He has been with his wife forever, and yet he somehow gets the character attacks.

Would he get the patriot attacks if his name didn't sound middle eastern? Would a flag pin matter so much if he wasn't black? For example, people are talking about him painting over his plane and removing an American flag, yet McCain has never had an american flag on his.

Would people be all over his church if it wasnt a black church? Evangelical white churches say crazy shi* all the time. Would this be a issue if there wasn't a fear of black extremism?

I think Obama has had to deal with a lot more because of his ethnicity. That's mostly what the article deals with, not affirmative action. Not white guilt. Just an opinion that Obama has had to deal with a lot of shi* he normally wouldn't have because of his ethnicity (the Muslim rumors, the churchgate story, his wife, the flag pin, the allegience, ext). And I believe a lot of those things, and I also beleive he has had to work a lot harder to get where he is than his collegues because of his ethnicity. stopped reading there. While he may not have went to Harvard, I think his Vietnam experience more that makes up for the difference in colleges or grades.



As for the original topic: I do believe this happens, but it happens both ways. Don't hold it against anyone unless you will against everyone.

finintheburgh
09-18-2008, 07:49 AM
Is that rich whites see it one way and poor whites see it another way

or is it rich white see poor blacks or some combo of that, can you elaborate a little to get a better feel of what you're saying..thanks..


i think rich people look at all poor people the same. color doesnt change the perception.rich blacks have priviledges poor whites and blacks dont and rich whites have priviledges that poor whites and blacks dont.

The_Dark_Knight
09-18-2008, 08:13 AM
I'm not going to presume to speak for the blogger and what his mindest is/was, but from what I read, he's attempting to illustrate, from his point of view what he perceives as hypocracy and is tying race into the equation...how a successful, well educated black man is so scrutinized where as a white man who's GPA was not that of of the black man's is revered.

I do have to agree with finintheburgh...this is more about stirring feelings of guilt more than anything. But as he also said, substitute "white" with "rich" and the entire argument changes perspective as the majority of Americans aren't rich.

I still find the comparrisons between Obama and Palin puzzling. Palin is not running for President. Obama is, so on the experience factor, the comparrison MUST be made between McCain and Obama...not Obama and Palin. Otherwise, McCain might as well drop out of the race and let Palin run for President. But I do find it curious how this partisan political argument makes no mention of Joe Biden. granted, he is white and fits into the "white privlige", but if comparrisons are going to be made between Obama and Palin, then why aren't there any comparrisons including Biden?

MD, to answer your original question...are there some out there that think like this...this "white privlege"? I'm not naive enough to say no. I'm sure there are, but these are the same people who can't tell you what position "their guy" holds on a topic...much like some Obama supporters who can't do the same. Ignorance runs rampant through elections and unfortunatley...like over here in the Middle East...lemmings are looking for a voice they can trust. Thank God Almighty though, netiher Obama nor McCain are some radical Islamic clerics who spew hate and lies. I don't think this way. I wouldn't care if Obama was white and McCain was black. My opinion of the candidates would be based on their position on the issues, not the color of their skin.

BlueFin
09-18-2008, 10:23 AM
I dont think this post is about affirmative action, or anything like that

what I got out of it were examples in my opinion on how much harder Obama has had to work to get where he is than guys like Bush and McCain, and how he is scrutinized differently



Oh really? So Obama had to serve 20 years in national office(like McCain) before he was seriously considered for the presidency?

It seems to me that no one in history has had an easier ride to be the nominee of a major party than Obama.(2 years in national office before running, no governership, no executive experience)

Also, people who try to correlate being good at school work to being successful in the real world are sadly mistaken, while it certainly doesn't hurt, there are far to many cases of overachievers who were awful in school for it to be the end all of judging a person's worth.

MDFINFAN
09-18-2008, 11:54 AM
Oh really? So Obama had to serve 20 years in national office(like McCain) before he was seriously considered for the presidency?

It seems to me that no one in history has had an easier ride to be the nominee of a major party than Obama.(2 years in national office before running, no governership, no executive experience)

Also, people who try to correlate being good at school work to being successful in the real world are sadly mistaken, while it certainly doesn't hurt, there are far to many cases of overachievers who were awful in school for it to be the end all of judging a person's worth.

The school comparison thing I agree with you on....In Obama's case he's kind of unique that way, generally you find real smart guys lacking common sense, and thus their judgement is so wried on a plane most of us can't relate to. This is where Obama impresses me, he has common sense and it come through in bundles.. and he's also successful.. I think that the combo of intelligence, common sense, and a good message that inspires ppl along with good policies are what we expect form top students, and thus the quicker rise for Obama than say, a McCain, who as you put it, had to take more time to learn his way around..but I think he's already pass his prime and he's at the top of his learning curve, whereas Obama has the compacity to elevate even more, and adopt quicker, and thus make better decisions, McCain is kind of set in his ways, because their the only ways he knows and that doesn't make him flexible enough for the emerging 21 century that's now in progress.

I really can't explain in this economic climate and failed 8 years and reading McCain's policies which are definetly more bush, why ppl, in terms of polls, aren't seeking change.. It's kind of common sense to see one way is not working, we need to try a different way...then again, I think the polls don't tell the whole story, so I have this hope that new registers, and young ppl on cell phone aren't polled, only established voters are. Obama isn't scary at all, and I think ppl are finally starting to understand that..it's like the Clinton's on their first campaign, we didn't know him either..but we took a chance and it worked..

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2008/10/fiscalconservatives-1.jpg

Blackocrates
09-19-2008, 03:28 PM
Yes I believe there is a such thing as 'white privilege' and I believe a lot of white people use it, even if they don't realize it. I can't count how many times I've heard white people talk about young black men as thugs because of their actions but young white men are just 'acting out', 'full of testosterone', 'having fun', etc.

White people have a long leesh, and are aloud to make numerous mistakes but black people in particular have a short leesh. If they mess up once, they're out. They're labeled, and according to white people they've proven whatever stereotype.

Growing up I've seen teachers and principals single out black students for stuff that white students were doing, or stuff that both white and black students were doing. I've personally been given passes for rowdy behavior and have had black students take the blame for my actions because the teacher 'saw' the black student do it, or it had to be the black student because poor swordfish is so innocent.

I've seen white parents berate black kids for starting trouble when it was actually the kids of the white parents that were starting trouble.

White people constantly get a pass. They may not realize it because it's business as usual and they've grown up with it, but if they had to walk in a black persons shoes they would realize that there is white privilege in America. It's everywhere, that's what makes it so hard to see.

BlueFin
09-19-2008, 04:58 PM
In the Navy, I watched Black sailors get away with insubordination and bad behavior that white sailors would have gone down for, because the white senior officer or enlisted man was afraid of the race card being played, and this was long before OJ.

The sooner all minorities quit seeing color and using it as a scapegoat for their failures, the sooner all race relations will improve dramatically.

I see example after example of minorities doing well in this country, far too many for it to be a fluke.

MDFINFAN
09-19-2008, 05:04 PM
In the Navy, I watched Black sailors get away with insubordination and bad behavior that white sailors would have gone down for, because the white senior officer or enlisted man was afraid of the race card being played, and this was long before OJ.

Do you really want to go long before OJ..

I remember watching white guys smoke pot at the malls and the cops just told them to move on, and then the same cops drive to the other side of the mall, see a black kid smoking and immediately arrest him.. I've seen scenes like that played out over and over in different circumstances. I had a white major tell me a brand new 2nd LT, that he put out a black officer a couple of months before I got there.. And I'm wondering, what the hell that has to do with me, since I didn't work for him or really know him, I was new to the unit. And I can tell you stories the other way around while in the military.. So basically that game is played both ways...

BlueFin
09-19-2008, 05:13 PM
Do you really want to go long before OJ..

I remember watching white guys smoke pot at the malls and the cops just told them to move on, and then the same cops drive to the other side of the mall, see a black kid smoking and immediately arrest him.. I've seen scenes like that played out over and over in different circumstances. I had a white major tell me a brand new 2nd LT, that he put out a black officer a couple of months before I got there.. And I'm wondering, what the hell that has to do with me, since I didn't work for him or really know him, I was new to the unit. And I can tell you stories the other way around while in the military.. So basically that game is played both ways...

Agreed, and that was my point.

The sooner we quit trying to make every thing that happens a racewide problem and using it as an excuse, and simply deal with the offending parties, not as a race, but as an individual, the sooner color won't matter anymore.

One of the biggest mistakes Obama has made in my opinion(along with snubbing Hillary), is bringing race into it, when no one else was talking about it. Certainly McCain and his people weren't. I can tell you this as a white man, one thing many whites are getting very tired of is the race card getting played everytime a minority doesn't get his way on something, and here was Obama out warning everybody about how his race would be used against him, when no one was saying anything of the sort.

MDFINFAN
09-19-2008, 06:03 PM
Agreed, and that was my point.

The sooner we quit trying to make every thing that happens a racewide problem and using it as an excuse, and simply deal with the offending parties, not as a race, but as an individual, the sooner color won't matter anymore.

One of the biggest mistakes Obama has made in my opinion(along with snubbing Hillary), is bringing race into it, when no one else was talking about it. Certainly McCain and his people weren't. I can tell you this as a white man, one thing many whites are getting very tired of is the race card getting played everytime a minority doesn't get his way on something, and here was Obama out warning everybody about how his race would be used against him, when no one was saying anything of the sort.

We know, and that's why Obama I think smartly stayed away from race, until the muslim card was played, the anti american, is he american, he doesn't share our values, he and his wife are radicals, he's lived in a muslim country, he wen to a muslim school..all the things about race and religion were played against him first, so he shoot back and so would you..black ppl don't like the we're not like them card played on us and we get tired of things too... but if we realize we're all ppl, and forget race, it'll be easy, but the fringe of all races won't allow that..so we should be able to deal with it.. and move on..and let the minority of both races play games with each other..

WSE
09-19-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm not going to presume to speak for the blogger and what his mindest is/was, but from what I read, he's attempting to illustrate, from his point of view what he perceives as hypocracy and is tying race into the equation...how a successful, well educated black man is so scrutinized where as a white man who's GPA was not that of of the black man's is revered.

I do have to agree with finintheburgh...this is more about stirring feelings of guilt more than anything. But as he also said, substitute "white" with "rich" and the entire argument changes perspective as the majority of Americans aren't rich.

I still find the comparrisons between Obama and Palin puzzling. Palin is not running for President. Obama is, so on the experience factor, the comparrison MUST be made between McCain and Obama...not Obama and Palin. Otherwise, McCain might as well drop out of the race and let Palin run for President. But I do find it curious how this partisan political argument makes no mention of Joe Biden. granted, he is white and fits into the "white privlige", but if comparrisons are going to be made between Obama and Palin, then why aren't there any comparrisons including Biden?

MD, to answer your original question...are there some out there that think like this...this "white privlege"? I'm not naive enough to say no. I'm sure there are, but these are the same people who can't tell you what position "their guy" holds on a topic...much like some Obama supporters who can't do the same. Ignorance runs rampant through elections and unfortunatley...like over here in the Middle East...lemmings are looking for a voice they can trust. Thank God Almighty though, netiher Obama nor McCain are some radical Islamic clerics who spew hate and lies. I don't think this way. I wouldn't care if Obama was white and McCain was black. My opinion of the candidates would be based on their position on the issues, not the color of their skin.

the education is one thing mentioned a lot in this blog post

but here is a question. Do you think this whole Muslim thing would of happened if his name was not Barack Obama. The flagpin issue. The plane paint issue. The pledge of allegiance issue (false btw). All the questions of patriotism. The church issue. If he was white, would these things of been an issue this election?

You say white guilt, I say Republican whites are using to use fear of black extremism to win this election. Trying to paint Obama as an extremist militant african american.

im white myself btw, I just see some of the" issues" affecting Obama would of never been issues if his skin color was different

The_Dark_Knight
09-20-2008, 03:42 AM
the education is one thing mentioned a lot in this blog post

but here is a question. Do you think this whole Muslim thing would of happened if his name was not Barack Obama. The flagpin issue. The plane paint issue. The pledge of allegiance issue (false btw). All the questions of patriotism. The church issue. If he was white, would these things of been an issue this election?

You say white guilt, I say Reoublican whites are using to use fear of black etremism to win this election. Trying to paint Obama as an extremist militant african american.

im white myself btw, I just see some of the" issues" affecting Obama would of never been issues if his skin color was different
If "Barack Hussein Obama" was white and not black...yes the whole "muslim thing" as you put would still have happened. The "muslim thing" was because of his name, not his race.

And before you become Holier than thou...republican and democrat pundits as well as the candidates themselves both use fear in their campaigns...

Republicans charge that Obama is a pacifist and will make us less safe against terrorism.

Democrats charge that McCain is another 4 more years of George Bush

They're both guilty of it

ih8brady
09-20-2008, 08:12 AM
If "Barack Hussein Obama" was white and not black...yes the whole "muslim thing" as you put would still have happened. The "muslim thing" was because of his name, not his race.

And before you become Holier than thou...republican and democrat pundits as well as the candidates themselves both use fear in their campaigns...

Republicans charge that Obama is a pacifist and will make us less safe against terrorism.

Democrats charge that McCain is another 4 more years of George Bush

They're both guilty of it


It's not the same thing. "Obama is a Muslim" crap is racist and it is so far away from reality, it's like calling McCain the gay son of Genghis Kahn. As for McCain and Bush, there is reasonable similarities and someone was a speaker at someone else's convention.


There have to be better examples of Democrats using fear.

myke1072
09-20-2008, 09:33 AM
I'm lost. We are allowed to practice any religion, yet it is supposed to be a negaitive if Obama is a Muslim ? I have had my issues with Obama, but I don't give a damn if he is a Muslim or not.

ohall
09-20-2008, 01:21 PM
If "Barack Hussein Obama" was white and not black...yes the whole "muslim thing" as you put would still have happened. The "muslim thing" was because of his name, not his race.

And before you become Holier than thou...republican and democrat pundits as well as the candidates themselves both use fear in their campaigns...

Republicans charge that Obama is a pacifist and will make us less safe against terrorism.

Democrats charge that McCain is another 4 more years of George Bush

They're both guilty of it

The Muslim thing happened to Obama because he has a Muslim sounding name and he has Muslim family members.

The issue has been more than clarified, however it most certainly did have to be addressed for the reasons I listed. Not that anything would be wrong with him being Muslim. Although I'm not sure if he was he would be a viable Presidential candidate. Unfortunately there is too much bias directed that way these days.

The_Dark_Knight
09-20-2008, 04:29 PM
It's not the same thing. "Obama is a Muslim" crap is racist and it is so far away from reality, it's like calling McCain the gay son of Genghis Kahn. As for McCain and Bush, there is reasonable similarities and someone was a speaker at someone else's convention.


There have to be better examples of Democrats using fear.
"Muslim" is not a race, it is a religion. Those who practice the religion of Islam are Muslims. So my original statement still stands.

Blackocrates
09-20-2008, 05:27 PM
And before you become Holier than thou...republican and democrat pundits as well as the candidates themselves both use fear in their campaigns...

Republicans charge that Obama is a pacifist and will make us less safe against terrorism.

Democrats charge that McCain is another 4 more years of George Bush

They're both guilty of it

It's funny that you admit that Bush is scary but claiming McCain is another four years of Bush is not a scare tactic. It's just pointing out policy differences. Now if democrats say McCain is suffering from an incurable disease, that would be a scare tactic.

ohall
09-20-2008, 05:53 PM
It's funny that you admit that Bush is scary but claiming McCain is another four years of Bush is not a scare tactic. It's just pointing out policy differences. Now if democrats say McCain is suffering from an incurable disease, that would be a scare tactic.

I think that's because McCain is his own person. I also think most Americans remember McCain has been one of Bush's biggest detractors. He has been harder on Bush than some DEM's. Calling for Rummy to be fired, his opposition to Bush's stance on so called torture, voting against Bush's tax bill and of course he was calling for a surge for quite a long time when Bush refused to go there.

Now if they want to say 4 more years of a REP failed strategy I think that may go over better. Over the last 24 months or so the REP wagon has been falling a part a bit. I know why they are doing it and usually it's a pretty good idea, but for the reasons I listed I don't think it really works that well this time around.

MDFINFAN
09-20-2008, 06:57 PM
I think that's because McCain is his own person. I also think most Americans remember McCain has been one of Bush's biggest detractors. He has been harder on Bush than some DEM's. Calling for Rummy to be fired, his opposition to Bush's stance on so called torture, voting against Bush's tax bill and of course he was calling for a surge for quite a long time when Bush refused to go there.

Now if they want to say 4 more years of a REP failed strategy I think that may go over better. Over the last 24 months or so the REP wagon has been falling a part a bit. I know why they are doing it and usually it's a pretty good idea, but for the reasons I listed I don't think it really works that well this time around.

But John McCain's website pretty much mirrors Bush policies with the exception of couple items... I don't see the difference deprite the rheotric.. the details are in the polices...and his site has the pudding.. 4 more years.

Blackocrates
09-21-2008, 12:08 AM
I think that's because McCain is his own person. I also think most Americans remember McCain has been one of Bush's biggest detractors. He has been harder on Bush than some DEM's. Calling for Rummy to be fired, his opposition to Bush's stance on so called torture, voting against Bush's tax bill and of course he was calling for a surge for quite a long time when Bush refused to go there.

Now if they want to say 4 more years of a REP failed strategy I think that may go over better. Over the last 24 months or so the REP wagon has been falling a part a bit. I know why they are doing it and usually it's a pretty good idea, but for the reasons I listed I don't think it really works that well this time around.

McCain has hardly been a detractor.

http://http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_that_even_though_john.html (http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_that_even_though_john.html)

Plus McCain is for the tax cuts now.

Here's a simple summary.

http://http://arcanebliss.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/08/1552947-mccain-voted-with-bush-95-of-the-time-in-2007 (http://arcanebliss.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/08/1552947-mccain-voted-with-bush-95-of-the-time-in-2007)

shula_guy
09-21-2008, 01:35 AM
no offense Mr gaithersburg liberal (mdfinfan) IMO this thread intends to push forth an agenda that generalizes and sterotypes "white america". It is absolute garbage and not worthy of a response. Im not attacking you personally Im just saying saying that it is a bad discussion because it is a very leading question. In order to attempt to answer it there is an imeadiate implied acknowledgement that it not only exists but is is a prevelant mentality within a certain faction of americans. It is race pandering and unamerican in my opinion. It is time to move beyond these dicussions.