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View Full Version : Ron Paul Blasts “Secret Government” Running Economy



FinFatale
09-24-2008, 05:49 PM
http://www.infowars.com/?p=4619

“Our problems come first of all from the Federal Reserve. It is a monopoly and it controls interest rates artificially low, causes people to make mistakes, that’s the basic source. But then on top of that in the Housing market we had the community reinvestment act which told investors that they had to loan to risky borrowers, and that was a risky complication. HUD contributes to this, FDIC contributes, it’s called moral hazard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard), everything that we have done over here creates moral hazard, that is we assure people or assume that we will take care of everybody, just go out and create the risk, it is the opposite of the market place.” Paul stated.

Ferretsquig
09-24-2008, 05:57 PM
It's easy to overreact after they've made a mistake, or shower plaudits on Greenspan during the boom. Both are stupid, shortsighted, and reactionary.

What does the guy want? Return to the gold standard? Go back to the pre-federal bank days when any state or institution could print its own currency? The fed's job is to keep interest rates artificially low or high, depending on the state of the economy. They misjudged and didn't slow down the boom quickly enough, but its far better than leaving people up to their own design.

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 06:08 PM
http://www.infowars.com/?p=4619


The Federal Reserve is a secret government that controls our money, economy and inflation. With no oversight or overview from the American people. The Fed controls both parties and candidates. And this new bailout will only give more power to the Federal Reserve. Which is nothing but a collection of Private Banks around the world. They say that the Fed is more secretive than the CIA. What does that tell you? The founding fathers were very wise when they wrote in the Constitution that only Congress has the power to coin and print money. They knew that this power in the hands of Private Banks would destroy the economy with inflation and interest. Which brings up the question of the legality of the Fed. When their existence goes against the Constitution. Every time the Fed prints this money out of thin air. We have to pay them bank with interest. And it kills the currency with inflation. So it's a double whammy. That has lead to the fall of the dollar. And to many of the economic problems we face. You also have a runaway government that constantly puts us in debt. How is this bailout going to work when you have a government that's not going to stop putting us in record amounts of debt?
When we change that along with getting rid of the Fed and giving their powers back to the people like the Constitution requires. Then you will see a difference and true change.

One more thing to add. This bailout and new powers the Fed would have. Can't be challenged in court. Something that isn't being talked about like it should. The language in the bill will bar all courts from challenging this bill and the Fed's authority. Can you say Financial Dictatorship?

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 06:10 PM
It's easy to overreact after they've made a mistake, or shower plaudits on Greenspan during the boom. Both are stupid, shortsighted, and reactionary.

What does the guy want? Return to the gold standard? Go back to the pre-federal bank days when any state or institution could print its own currency? The fed's job is to keep interest rates artificially low or high, depending on the state of the economy. They misjudged and didn't slow down the boom quickly enough, but its far better than leaving people up to their own design.


He wants the government to stop putting us in debt. And to take away the Federal Reserve's power. And give it back to the people like the Constitution requires.

Ferretsquig
09-24-2008, 06:55 PM
So lemme get this straight. You think monetary policy in this country was better before the federal reserve was created, and the power was in the hands of the people? Surely you're aware of why the institution was created in the first place.

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 07:17 PM
So lemme get this straight. You think monetary policy in this country was better before the federal reserve was created, and the power was in the hands of the people? Surely you're aware of why the institution was created in the first place.


Well for one that power belongs to Congress and no one else. The Constitution says so. Second wasn't it on the Federal Reserve's watch when the first great depression happened? Now they have a possible second depression on their record. Not exactly the greatest resume. Don't you think? It's our fiscal and monetary policies that's the problem. This bailout means nothing when you have a government that is out of control with debt. And a Fed constantly printing money out of thin air. And killing our currency with Inflation and interest. Fix that then we will begin to see some real change.

Ferretsquig
09-24-2008, 07:27 PM
Well for one that power belongs to Congress and no one else. The Constitution says so. Second wasn't it on the Federal Reserve's watch when the first great depression happened? Now they have a possible second depression on their record. Not exactly the greatest resume. Don't you think?

Its a marvelous resume. The financial stability and economic growth this country has seen over the last century is unparalleled in history.

phinfan3411
09-24-2008, 07:39 PM
I agree with Paul 100%. I have never heard the term "moral hazard" before, but it fits. Cannot blame it all on that specifically, but it certainly did not help.

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 08:30 PM
Its a marvelous resume. The financial stability and economic growth this country has seen over the last century is unparalleled in history.


And in the end we're left with the biggest financial crisis this country and the world has possibly ever seen. That's the part your're leaving out. This would be the second time this has happened with the Federal Reserve at the helm. The fact remains that our current fiscal and monetary policies can't continue. More Debt and More Inflation is not the way to go.

Ferretsquig
09-24-2008, 08:53 PM
And in the end we're left with the biggest financial crisis this country and the world has possibly ever seen. That's the part your're leaving out.

In real terms this crisis hasn't even come close to touching the savings and loans fiasco, let alone the great depression.

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 09:54 PM
In real terms this crisis hasn't even come close to touching the savings and loans fiasco, let alone the great depression.


Let's see. The Savings and Loan bailout cost us around 160 billion. This current bailout will cost us 1 trillion. I would say this crisis trumps the S&L fiasco. Without a doubt. As for the depression. If we don't change our ways that's where we're heading.

Ferretsquig
09-24-2008, 10:47 PM
It won't even come close to a trillion dollars. The worst of the mortgage securities have been resold to hedge funds at 20-30 cents on the dollar. The feds will take a similar approach....packaging and selling to the highest bidder. Add in the fact that the payouts will be drawn out over a period of 5-10 years the money figure we're talking about becomes a bit less sensational. But the $700 billion does make a nice soundbite......hey it sure got the Paul riled up.

poornate
09-24-2008, 11:14 PM
I think the FED will eventually control the One World Government that springs up to govern Mexico, the United States and Canada after the aliens finish building their "secret highway" between the three countries....

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 11:44 PM
It won't even come close to a trillion dollars. The worst of the mortgage securities have been resold to hedge funds at 20-30 cents on the dollar. The feds will take a similar approach....packaging and selling to the highest bidder. Add in the fact that the payouts will be drawn out over a period of 5-10 years the money figure we're talking about becomes a bit less sensational. But the $700 billion does make a nice soundbite......hey it sure got the Paul riled up.


Because of the bailouts our debt will now be at 11.3 trillion dollars. That looks like a trillion to me. Also take into account that the numbers you used won't mean nothing if the bailout doesn't work. Which it won't. And they mean nothing when you have have a government and candidates that will add another 4 to 5 trillion dollars to the debt. Notice the pattern here. I'll give you a clue. IT'S DEBT. Mixed with a whole bunch of inflation and interest.

One thing that is getting missed here. Is the fact that this Bailout bill will take away the courts ability to challenge the Fed and Paulson. This amounts to a Financial Dictatorship. No overview or oversight and the courts stripped of their powers to challenge this. Explain to me how that is a good thing?

Dolphins9954
09-24-2008, 11:45 PM
I think the FED will eventually control the One World Government that springs up to govern Mexico, the United States and Canada after the aliens finish building their "secret highway" between the three countries....


Once again you have nothing to add or say.

Shocking.

Ferretsquig
09-25-2008, 12:02 AM
Because of the bailouts our debt will now be at 11.3 trillion dollars. That looks like a trillion to me. Also take into account that the numbers you used won't mean nothing if the bailout doesn't work.

With the bailout the potential debt ceiling is 11.3 trillion dollars. There is a little difference in that statement and the one you're making. You try to put everything in this ridiculously simplistic form. The fed is asking permission to purchase an unknown quantity which will be resold at an unknown value. All we know is the resale value will be lower than the purchase value and the maximum purchase value is $700 billion. That does not mean we are borrowing a trillion dollars.

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 12:10 AM
With the bailout the potential debt ceiling is 11.3 trillion dollars. There is a little difference in that statement and the one you're making. You try to put everything in this ridiculously simplistic form. The fed is asking permission to purchase an unknown quantity which will be resold at an unknown value. All we know is the resale value will be lower than the purchase value and the maximum purchase value is $700 billion. That does not mean we are borrowing a trillion dollars.

It means that they will print this money out of thin air and add a whole bunch of Inflation to the currency. Because the fact is we don't have this money. The government is in debt. Where is this money coming from? What about the fact that the next two candidates will add another 4 to 5 trillion to the debt? What about the courts being stripped of their power to challenge the Fed and Paulson? No one even talks about that.

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 02:03 PM
Paul has released another statement.




Whenever a Great Bipartisan Consensus is announced, and a compliant media assures everyone that the wondrous actions of our wise leaders are being taken for our own good, you can know with absolute certainty that disaster is about to strike.

The events of the past week are no exception.

The bailout package that is about to be rammed down Congress’ throat is not just economically foolish. It is downright sinister. It makes a mockery of our Constitution, which our leaders should never again bother pretending is still in effect. It promises the American people a never-ending nightmare of ever-greater debt liabilities they will have to shoulder. Two weeks ago, financial analyst Jim Rogers said the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made America more communist than China! "This is welfare for the rich," he said. "This is socialism for the rich. It’s bailing out the financiers, the banks, the Wall Streeters."That describes the current bailout package to a T. And we’re being told it’s unavoidable.

The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish that only politicians and the media could pretend to believe it. But that has become the conventional wisdom, with the desired result that those responsible for the credit bubble and its predictable consequences – predictable, that is, to those who understand sound, Austrian economics – are being let off the hook. The Federal Reserve System is actually positioning itself as the savior, rather than the culprit, in this mess!

The Treasury Secretary is authorized to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets at any one time. That means $700 billion is only the very beginning of what will hit us.
Financial institutions are "designated as financial agents of the Government." This is the New Deal to end all New Deals.
Then there’s this: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Translation: the Secretary can buy up whatever junk debt he wants to, burden the American people with it, and be subject to no one in the process.
There goes your country.





http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul479.html



No overview. No oversight. No courts having power to challenge this. More Debt. More Inflation.

How can anyone vote for this? This amounts to a power grap and Financial Dictatorship. Not only will the government put us in record amount of debt and inflation. We won't have the power to do anything about it. This also brings up the question of the legality of this bill. How can the courts be stripped of their power in this? Don't we have a seperation of powers in this country? Not anymore.

poornate
09-25-2008, 02:07 PM
Continually posting Ron Paul's statements does not force him into relavence... Who is he making statements to? Potted plants, a wall in his garden? His cat? Who's listening when he delivers these important statements?

Ferretsquig
09-25-2008, 02:17 PM
He's got a nice little cult following. He'll manage a couple more book deals before people get tired of him. His real problem is that when the economy perks up again his message will have far less resonance and noone will care anymore.

I'd like the guy a lot more if he would just take the Perot approach to addressing the problem instead of spewing out this populist crap.

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Continually posting Ron Paul's statements does not force him into relavence... Who is he making statements to? Potted plants, a wall in his garden? His cat? Who's listening when he delivers these important statements?


Continuing to add nothing to the debate but smears. Only makes you look irrelevant. Contrary to what you believe. There is this thing called the truth. Ever since this bailout crisis. Ron Paul has been on every news station you can think of. I can line up plenty of interviews from all news sources just from this week alone. So people are interested in what he has to say. If you like it or not. And before this bailout Ron Paul had a very successful Rally for the Republic. That got plenty of Air time and was covered by C-Span. So the smears aren't working. Try something new.

Why don't you explain to me how no overview, no oversight, courts stripped of their powers, more debt, more inflation and interest. Is the right and best thing to do for our country?

Then explain to me how this is legal and Constitutional. We have seperation of powers in this country. This bailout out is nothing but a power grap. That will strip the people's ability to challenge this at all. Not exactly American and Constitutional at all.

poornate
09-25-2008, 03:01 PM
Continuing to add nothing to the debate but smears. Only makes you look irrelevant. Contrary to what you believe. There is this thing called the truth. Ever since this bailout crisis. Ron Paul has been on every news station you can think of. I can line up plenty of interviews from all news sources just from this week alone. So people are interested in what he has to say. If you like it or not. And before this bailout Ron Paul had a very successful Rally for the Republic. That got plenty of Air time and was covered by C-Span. So the smears aren't working. Try something new.

Why don't you explain to me how no overview, no oversight, courts stripped of their powers, more debt, more inflation and interest. Is the right and best thing to do for our country?

Then explain to me how this is legal and Constitutional. We have seperation of powers in this country. This bailout out is nothing but a power grap. That will strip the people's ability to challenge this at all. Not exactly American and Constitutional at all.

Funny... I'm pretty well read... and a bit of a politico... I can't recall hearing a thing about "Dr. Nobody" and his important contribution to the national collective...

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 03:08 PM
Funny... I'm pretty well read... and a bit of a politico... I can't recall hearing a thing about "Dr. Nobody" and his important contribution to the national collective...


So you continue to smear. And avoid answering questions.

Don't worry I understand. This power grap and Financial Dictatorship is indefenceable. Even you would know (I Hope) that stripping courts of their constitutional powers is wrong and illegal.

poornate
09-25-2008, 03:11 PM
You want to debate the constitutionality of it? Fine... Let me ask you, in extraordinairy circumstances is it okay to work in the gray areas of constitutionally granted authority?

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 03:31 PM
You want to debate the constitutionality of it? Fine... Let me ask you, in extraordinairy circumstances is it okay to work in the gray areas of constitutionally granted authority?


It's not OK to ignore, dismiss and violate the Constitution. Especially when it comes to extraordinairy circumstances. Your're using the same exact excuse and approach that Bush used for the Patriot Act and War with Iraq. (Which Obama voted for). Not exactly a change or difference there.

"Those that are willing to give up their liberty for safety deserve neither".

Giving Dictatorial powers to the Fed and the Government is not in the interest of the American people and the Constitution. What's the point of the Constitution if no one from both sides follows it? Don't these guys swear on the bible to "uphold and defend" the constitution? What ever happened to that? This amounts to a power grap. That will have no overview or oversight. Don't you guys complain about not having enough regulations. But now you support giving total power to the Fed and Government. With no overview and courts stripped of their Constitutional powers. What kind of sense does that make?

poornate
09-25-2008, 03:40 PM
It's not OK to ignore, dismiss and violate the Constitution. Especially when it comes to extraordinairy circumstances. Your're using the same exact excuse and approach that Bush used for the Patriot Act and War with Iraq. (Which Obama voted for). Not exactly a change or difference there.

"Those that are willing to give up their liberty for safety deserve neither".

Giving Dictatorial powers to the Fed and the Government is not in the interest of the American people and the Constitution. What's the point of the Constitution if no one from both sides follows it? Don't these guys swear on the bible to "uphold and defend" the constitution? What ever happened to that? This amounts to a power grap. That will have no overview or oversight. Don't you guys complain about not having enough regulations. But now you support giving total power to the Fed and Government. With no overview and courts stripped of their Constitutional powers. What kind of sense does that make?

Really? Because Jefferson, a man you greatly admire, believed in states rights, too... he wanted the central government to have little authority... yet when he was confronted with an extraordinairy circumstance, he unconstitutionally and, in your view, illegally borrowed a gigantic sum of money from a foreign power to buy land that strengthened the naion... Now, we aremaking a gray area move because it will strengthen the nation... see? You can be an idealist and still realize when compromise of those ideals serves the greater good... We are not a nation without our people and the people need action...

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 03:50 PM
Really? Because Jefferson, a man you greatly admire, believed in states rights, too... he wanted the central government to have little authority... yet when he was confronted with an extraordinairy circumstance, he unconstitutionally and, in your view, illegally borrowed a gigantic sum of money from a foreign power to buy land that strengthened the naion... Now, we aremaking a gray area move because it will strengthen the nation... see? You can be an idealist and still realize when compromise of those ideals serves the greater good... We are not a nation without our people and the people need action...

First you will have to show me how Jefferson illegally borrowed money. Then again that's a deflection from what's happening now and this thread.

So giving Dictatorial powers to the Fed and the Government is for the greater good? Now I've heard enough. I wonder if Fascist States and Dictatorships use the same excuse?

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 05:05 PM
Looks like there is plenty of American Patriots seeing through the fear tactics and lies. And standing up for America and the Constitution. Neither party is offering a choice or a difference. Taking to the streets is the only option. Stop the Dictatorial power grap from the Federal Reserve and the Government. Power back to the people.




The public backlash against the Bush administration's proposal to use tax dollars to bailout Wall Street spilled into the streets Thursday.
"People all over the country are up in arms about this," said David Elliot, a spokesman for grassroots advocacy group UsAction. "Our members are livid, and they're hitting the streets."

At present, there are 251 events planed in more than 41 states to protest the bailout, according to organizers at TrueMajority.com. Several organizations have contributed to the planning of the protests, including Democracy for America, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn) and labor unions.

A protest organized by the New York Central Labor Council took place this afternoon on Wall Street near the New York Stock Exchange. Another protest, which was spontaneously organized online, is also targeting New York's financial district, where protestors plan to build a "pile of citizen junk" near the famous Wall Street bull statue later Wednesday.

"Since Bush wants to buy up Wall Street's worthless investments with Main Street's hard-earned tax dollars, some folks are planning to bring their OWN junk to Wall Street to see if they can get a bailout, too," citizen organizer Arun Gupta said in a statement.

Gupta is the author of an e-mail message that initially inspired plans for the protest in New York.

Protests are also planned in Washington. Events are scheduled to coincide with a 4 p.m. ET meeting at the White House between Bush administration officials, Congressional leaders and the presidential candidates to discuss the final details of the bailout plan.

"The people we entrusted to run our economy have failed us," said Alan Charney, program director of UsAction. "We can no longer trust them to get us out of this financial mess."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/bailout_protests/?postversion=2008092515

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 05:15 PM
The bottom has dropped out.





BEIJING, Sept 25 (Reuters) - Chinese regulators have told domestic banks to stop interbank lending to U.S. financial institutions to prevent possible losses during the financial crisis, the South China Morning Post reported on Thursday.

The Hong Kong newspaper cited unidentified industry sources as saying the instruction from the China Banking Regulatory Commission (CBRC) applied to interbank lending of all currencies to U.S. banks but not to banks from other countries.

"The decree appears to be Beijing's first attempt to erect defences against the deepening U.S. financial meltdown after the mainland's major lenders reported billions of U.S. dollars in exposure to the credit crisis (http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcoverage/subprime)," the SCMP said.

A spokesman for the CBRC had no immediate comment.




http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSPEK16693720080925

FinFatale
09-25-2008, 05:34 PM
"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety." --1st Inaugural Address, 1801.

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 07:18 PM
The protests continue and gain in numbers. I'm so happy to see my fellow Americans stand up to this Financial Dictatorship. And it shows that many Americans aren't fooled by the fear and lies. I commend them and stand beside them. Liberty and the Constitution still has defenders.


http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080925/NEWS01/809250412
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/outrage-online.html
http://www.wibc.com/News/Story.aspx?ID=100312
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/09/22/daily63.html
http://www.mndaily.com/2008/09/25/protesters-rally-against-proposed-bailout
http://www2.ljworld.com/blogs/kansas_congress/2008/sep/25/bailout_protest/
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20080925/BUSINESS/80925011/1001
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2008/db20080924_430418.htm



No free speech zones here.

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 07:29 PM
Bush, Mccain , Obama, the GOP and the Dems have released a photo showing their bipartisanship with this bailout.




http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Dolphins9954
09-25-2008, 09:09 PM
Prestigious Group of 192 Economists - Including Nobel Prize Winners - Slams Bailout (http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/prestigious-group-of-economists-slam.html)


The following group of prominent economists, including numerous Nobel Prize winners, has written a letter slamming the bailout proposal

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/prestigious-group-of-economists-slam.html