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Dolphins9954
09-27-2008, 01:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIenDGSAdPA&feature=related



This is so outrageous that I don't know if it's real or fake. You be the judge. I'm trying to find more info.

Clipse
09-27-2008, 02:53 PM
:bs:

What a load of bull****. Missourians should shoot themselves in the head if this is true. Then again maybe not. Character attacks on McCain are perfectly fine but oh god, no way in hell are you allowed to make attacks on OBAMATRON, you will be persecuted for doing so for he is almighty :rolleyes2: What a Pu**y Obama is for making "truth squads"

Dolphins9954
09-27-2008, 03:28 PM
Holy crap it's real. Here is the link to the news station that reported it.


http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1


I really thought this was fake. I thought it might have been "The Onion" news. But apparently it's real. This is madness. Now we have truth squads getting people arrested. This is like the Gestapo. This is just like the Nazis. This is Fascism and Big Brother at it's finest. How can anyone support this especially Americans? If Obama is using tactics like this in the election. Then Imagine what he would do as president. Our country and our freedom is in major peril.

ohall
09-27-2008, 03:31 PM
Holy crap it's real. Here is the link to the news station that reported it.


http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1


I really thought this was fake. I thought it might have been "The Onion" news. But apparently it's real. This is madness. Now we have truth squads getting people arrested. This is like the Gestapo. This is just like the Nazis. This is Fascism and Big Brother at it's finest. How can anyone support this especially Americans? If Obama is using tactics like this in the election. Then Imagine what he would do as president. Our country and our freedom is in major peril.

My 1st reaction is the report is some how making it a bigger deal than it really is. There's no way Obama can be that stupid.

Clipse
09-27-2008, 03:54 PM
My 1st reaction is the report is some how making it a bigger deal than it really is. There's no way Obama can be that stupid.
I would hope he isn't that stupid. But it certainly seems true, and if it is, even more reason to never, ever vote for OBAMATRON.

Tetragrammaton
09-27-2008, 06:47 PM
The main focus is to prosecute those who violate ethics laws.

Good for them.

milldog
09-27-2008, 06:50 PM
:bs:

What a load of bull****. Missourians should shoot themselves in the head if this is true. Then again maybe not. Character attacks on McCain are perfectly fine but oh god, no way in hell are you allowed to make attacks on OBAMATRON, you will be persecuted for doing so for he is almighty :rolleyes2: What a Pu**y Obama is for making "truth squads"

Do you really think Obama is behind this or angry democrats. I would think Obama is too busy to start such nonsense. I could be wrong.:unsure:

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 07:00 PM
The Obama campaign cracks down on misleading ads, hmmm...........

I was not going to post this here, because I didn't feel like all the Obamamaniacs attacking me, and its a second amendment issue. Some know that I am pro second amendment, and this has been on some of my gun boards, on the link go down to the first post, and listen to the add Obama is running in, I believe, Virginia:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=242702


When I heard it, I thought, uh oh, some gun groups are endorsing him, this isn't good for McCain, but, hey who is the American Hunters and Shooters Association? Well, ask, and you shall receive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Hunters_and_Shooters_Association

All politicians lie, this hits me especially hard, and with what he is starting in Missouri, and he isn't even President.......I didn't think I would actually dislike him this much.

Heil Obama!

BillParFan
09-27-2008, 07:12 PM
Holy crap it's real. Here is the link to the news station that reported it.


http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1


I really thought this was fake. I thought it might have been "The Onion" news. But apparently it's real. This is madness. Now we have truth squads getting people arrested. This is like the Gestapo. This is just like the Nazis. This is Fascism and Big Brother at it's finest. How can anyone support this especially Americans? If Obama is using tactics like this in the election. Then Imagine what he would do as president. Our country and our freedom is in major peril.

I LOVE IT!

The only ones in peril are those that break the law by slandering someone.

What will McCains campaign do if they can't rely on his turd blossom disciples slander?

Clipse
09-27-2008, 07:24 PM
Do you really think Obama is behind this or angry democrats. I would think Obama is too busy to start such nonsense. I could be wrong.:unsure:
Who knows? Maybe, maybe not.

Clipse
09-27-2008, 07:31 PM
The main focus is to prosecute those who violate ethics laws.

Good for them.
If that was their main focus, why was it just to protect Obama, and not protect McCain? Does OBAMATRON and his supporters not make lies about McCain? I wish you would learn from some of the other Barackheads of this forum. At least they have good arguments. All politicians lie, I know you would like to believe OBAMATRON doesn't, guess what? He does, yet where are McCain's "Truth Squads" to protect him from Obama?

Do I believe this story? Not really. But the arguments you put out are just too weak and dumb to not ignore them.

NorFlaFin
09-27-2008, 08:25 PM
http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem

Clipse
09-27-2008, 08:34 PM
http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem

Obama should be stabbed in both eyes for the fact that he cannot see what a dumb *** move that was on his part.

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 08:50 PM
I am for McCain, I have made no bones about it, but I also let it be known when he does something I do not like. I hated his stance, and still do, on immigration, thought his mentioning Andrew Cuomo would be a great head of the SEC, was absolutely ridiculous. I support my Democrat governor, was against the war etc... so I do not think I am as bad as some as far as partisanship.

If what we are talking about is true, I believe it is one of the most disgusting, corrupt, partisan, idiotic political moves I have witnessed in the past few decades in this country. He should be ashamed of himself, but I doubt he or his supporters will do anything but cheer louder.

Heil Obama!

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 08:57 PM
I LOVE IT!

The only ones in peril are those that break the law by slandering someone.

What will McCains campaign do if they can't rely on his turd blossom disciples slander?
I guess we can pick and choose which laws we can follow. Libel is against the law. I see nothing wrong with trying to bring a stop to the nonsense that serves no purpose but to attack Obama's character with falsities. In fact, I applaud the rightful use of the law in combating these sort of campaign tactics.

If people want to continue to publicly tie Obama to Muslim terrorists and other such nonsense, they better be prepared to provide actual evidence.

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 09:08 PM
I guess we can pick and choose which laws we can follow. Libel is against the law. I see nothing wrong with trying to bring a stop to the nonsense that serves no purpose but to attack Obama's character with falsities. In fact, I applaud the rightful use of the law in combating these sort of campaign tactics.

If people want to continue to publicly tie Obama to Muslim terrorists and other such nonsense, they better be prepared to provide actual evidence.


I do not think you understand, this "squad" is for Obama's benefit ONLY.

If their was an INDEPENDENT party that held EVERYONE responsible for their untruths, I would support it also.

Read it again, I had to read it several times, as I thought I was seeing things. I mean this is not Germany in the late 30's, and early 40's (this isn't Germany is it?) things like this are not supposed to happen here.

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 09:10 PM
Oh yeah, sorry, please do not imprison me, ...Heil Obama.

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 09:24 PM
I do not think you understand, this "squad" is for Obama's benefit ONLY.

If their was an INDEPENDENT party that held EVERYONE responsible for their untruths, I would support it also.

Read it again, I had to read it several times, as I thought I was seeing things. I mean this is not Germany in the late 30's, and early 40's (this isn't Germany is it?) things like this are not supposed to happen here.
McCain is perfectly within his right to pursue libel complaints against him and I wouldn't be surprised if he already does. Obama has made it a point to combat slander in the campaign, this is nothing new. I understand the frustration over it though. It's one of the dirtiest and yet most effective campaign techniques that McCan't and Co. have used. :lol:

Tetragrammaton
09-27-2008, 09:29 PM
All politicians lie, I know you would like to believe OBAMATRON doesn't, guess what?

I haven't used the term lol in a long time, but I have to. Lol. I have said, on several occasions, that Obama has lied for political gain in several instances. Misrepresenting what I have said does not aid you.

Poornate made a thread for people to voice their concerns or negative aspects about their preferred candidate, and I among other "Barackheads" were able to. We also said what we liked about McCain. No conservative or "McCainhead" replied, so what are you talking about?


But the arguments you put out are just too weak and dumb to not ignore them.

Being patronizing doesn't aid either. Aren't we all adults here?

If you watch the video, it is said that Obama initiated the program. That is why they aren't helping McCain. He can do it too, but he doesn't have the funds to do it on the scale Obama does.

I know you will ignore this part, but that is the ugly side of Obama having the edge financially. He is able to do things like this and continue his negative campaigning much more than McCain who is hampered by his lower fundraising amounts.

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 09:48 PM
I haven't used the term lol in a long time, but I have to. Lol. I have said, on several occasions, that Obama has lied for political gain in several instances. Misrepresenting what I have said does not aid you.

Poornate made a thread for people to voice their concerns or negative aspects about their preferred candidate, and I among other "Barackheads" were able to. We also said what we liked about McCain. No conservative or "McCainhead" replied, so what are you talking about?



Being patronizing doesn't aid either. Aren't we all adults here?

If you watch the video, it is said that Obama initiated the program. That is why they aren't helping McCain. He can do it too, but he doesn't have the funds to do it on the scale Obama does.

I know you will ignore this part, but that is the ugly side of Obama having the edge financially. He is able to do things like this and continue his negative campaigning much more than McCain who is hampered by his lower fundraising amounts.


Obama initiated this, and paid for this, and state, federal, and county workers that are paid for with American taxpayer dollars are enforcing this?????????

This is beyond ridiculous, serious abuse of power, and HE IS NOT EVEN PRESIDENT.

Wayward, you cannot be serious about this, you cannot go much more overboard, is McCain perfect, don't make me laugh, this is disgusting.

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 10:01 PM
Obama initiated this, and paid for this, and state, federal, and county workers that are paid for with American taxpayer dollars are enforcing this?????????

This is beyond ridiculous, serious abuse of power, and HE IS NOT EVEN PRESIDENT.

Wayward, you cannot be serious about this, you cannot go much more overboard, is McCain perfect, don't make me laugh, this is disgusting.Where did it say he was paying for it? He asked them to do their jobs and enforce the law. These are prosecutors that are using their resources to do so. If you don't like the laws, feel free to lobby to have libel laws overturned so we can defame people all we want. Until then...it's the law.

I do enjoy all the overreactions though. They always entertain me.

Tetragrammaton
09-27-2008, 10:16 PM
Obama initiated this, and paid for this, and state, federal, and county workers that are paid for with American taxpayer dollars are enforcing this?????????

This is beyond ridiculous, serious abuse of power, and HE IS NOT EVEN PRESIDENT.

Wayward, you cannot be serious about this, you cannot go much more overboard, is McCain perfect, don't make me laugh, this is disgusting.

I am not saying it is right, I am saying he is able to do it because of his financial advantage. There are portions of it I can understand (the ethics issue), but some of them appear to be a reach in power. While I think anyone that thinks Obama is a Muslim should be sat down and taught, you can't outlaw it.


Where did it say he was paying for it? He asked them to do their jobs and enforce the law.

He may not have paid exactly, but it is within the realm of the likely next President to promise them promotions or make well-timed contributions.

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 10:30 PM
Where did it say he was paying for it? He asked them to do their jobs and enforce the law. These are prosecutors that are using their resources to do so. If you don't like the laws, feel free to lobby to have libel laws overturned so we can defame people all we want. Until then...it's the law.

I do enjoy all the overreactions though. They always entertain me.

I am going with what Wayward said in his post, I do not care if he is paying for it or not. I must be in the twilight zone, if I turned on my local news, and local sheriffs, or prosecuters were on the news saying they were going to watch out for OBAMA, and any misleading adds McCain might run(when they are both doing it), are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I would be down to that office so fast it would make your head spin.

Can you imagine if it was the other way around, MD would be screaming RACISM AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS. Obama is doing it however, and he is as quiet as a church mouse.

You guys are unbelieveable.

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 10:30 PM
Sorry, again.....Heil Obama!

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 11:17 PM
Sorry, again.....Heil Obama!
Yes, utilizing the laws in place is right up there with murdering millions. Well done. :rolleyes2:

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 11:26 PM
Yes, utilizing the laws in place is right up there with murdering millions. Well done. :rolleyes2:

I was trying to make the connection of shooting down any opposition to him by abusing his power, I am sorry if you missed that.


Heil Obama!


I enjoy all the overreactions though, they always entertain me.

Heil Obama!

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 11:27 PM
I am going with what Wayward said in his post, I do not care if he is paying for it or not. I must be in the twilight zone, if I turned on my local news, and local sheriffs, or prosecuters were on the news saying they were going to watch out for OBAMA, and any misleading adds McCain might run(when they are both doing it), are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I would be down to that office so fast it would make your head spin.

Can you imagine if it was the other way around, MD would be screaming RACISM AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS. Obama is doing it however, and he is as quiet as a church mouse.

You guys are unbelieveable.Very well, don't attempt to counter the fact that he is well within his rights to request assistance in thwarting illegal activities directed towards him. McCain is well within his rights to do the same. Continue to overreact and compare him to hitler, yadda yadda. In fact, why wait for him to come to your neighborhood? How far is Missouri? March on down and demand they not protect Obama's rights! Don't they have better things to do, like crack down on those ever-dangerous potheads?

And don't worry, what you're doing is only slander, at best. You don't have quite the audience necessary to qualify as libel. :hi5:

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 11:33 PM
I was trying to make the connection of shooting down any opposition to him by abusing his power, I am sorry if you missed that.


Heil Obama!


I enjoy all the overreactions though, they always entertain me.

Heil Obama!
Spin it anyway you want, you're comparing him to hitler, and you're not putting much effort into hiding it.

And you have yet to explain how using laws that have been in place for quite some time is an abuse of power. Please, present some facts. How exactly did he so?

Don't worry, I don't actually expect a thought out response. I expect more silly hitler comparisons. But just in case, here is a good start:
http://www.mobar.org/fecee336-a405-41e8-9647-fe5deb9cba1d.aspx ;) (http://www.mobar.org/fecee336-a405-41e8-9647-fe5deb9cba1d.aspx)

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 11:42 PM
Spin it anyway you want, you're comparing him to hitler, and you're not putting much effort into hiding it.

And you have yet to explain how using laws that have been in place for quite some time is an abuse of power. Please, present some facts. How exactly did he so?

Don't worry, I don't actually expect a thought out response. I expect more silly hitler comparisons. But just in case, here is a good start:
http://www.mobar.org/fecee336-a405-41e8-9647-fe5deb9cba1d.aspx ;) (http://www.mobar.org/fecee336-a405-41e8-9647-fe5deb9cba1d.aspx)

You are correct, I like to put some humor in my post, sorry if it offends you. I know the definition of libel, and you still miss my point. Why are these said government employees only interested in protecting one candidate???? That is the question, no spin, no belittling answers, do YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

phinfan3411
09-27-2008, 11:44 PM
Just to point out, other Obama supporters on this thread are hoping he had nothing to do with this Mr Know it All.

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 11:53 PM
You are correct, I like to put some humor in my post, sorry if it offends you. I know the definition of libel, and you still miss my point. Why are these said government employees only interested in protecting one candidate???? That is the question, no spin, no belittling answers, do YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?Heh, you're right. Doesn't get much funnier than hitler. Well done. :hi5:

The attacks against McCain haven't been nearly as libelous as those against Obama. I don't remember any chain emails or actual "news" broadcasts claiming McCain associated and may have been financed by Muslim terrorists or that he may be a secret one himself, with no facts whatsoever to back it up.

I certainly hope prosecutors would be going after those that do. But there haven't been nearly the number of incidents as those that have drawn the attention of the authorities in Obama's case.

Now awaiting the ludicrous reply that there have been an equal number of libelous attacks against McCain... :rolleyes2:

Gonzo
09-27-2008, 11:57 PM
Just to point out, other Obama supporters on this thread are hoping he had nothing to do with this.Well, I guess I better toss aside the facts and change my view then. :rolleyes2:

phinfan3411
09-28-2008, 12:01 AM
I am getting sick of your tone, I would not say attacks on McCain have been half as bad as the ones on Obama. How would you defend the stuff said, and done to Palin?


That is not the point though, they have both put out libelous ads, and one of them has government employees working for him to stop the attacks on him, not on both of them.

I have said again, and again that if they were protecting them both, I would welcome it, but the problem is they are protecting ONE, but you insist I am the idiot.

phinfan3411
09-28-2008, 12:07 AM
You are a moderator?

phinfan3411
09-28-2008, 12:08 AM
So do I report your personal attacks on me to you?

Gonzo
09-28-2008, 12:24 AM
I am getting sick of your tone, I would not say attacks on McCain have been half as bad as the ones on Obama. How would you defend the stuff said, and done to Palin?


That is not the point though, they have both put out libelous ads, and one of them has government employees working for him to stop the attacks on him, not on both of them.

I have said again, and again that if they were protecting them both, I would welcome it, but the problem is they are protecting ONE, but you insist I am the idiot.
My tone? Disagreement is my only tone and I'm entitled to it, just as you are.

What has been said and done to Palin that hasn't been twisting words ("Lipstick on a pig?" That backfired :lol: )? Better yet, what has been DONE to her?

The government employees are not "working for him." Spin. They are working for the government and protecting one of it's citizens, which is their job.

For all we know, they are protecting both. The libelous attacks against Obama have been far greater in number and have obviously attracted the attention of law enforcement.

I never called you an idiot. We disagree. Such is life.

Gonzo
09-28-2008, 12:28 AM
So do I report your personal attacks on me to you?Feel free to report them if they exist. We don't handle threads we are involved in. If you feel you are being mistreated by a moderator abusing his power, you may contact an admin.

I'm entitled to a viewpoint just like anybody else. disagreement =/= personal attack.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 12:40 AM
This is disgusting. And anyone that supports and defends this should cease to call themselves Americans. Take down the Star and Stripes and replace it with Swastikas. Because that is what this amounts too. We have free speech and expression in this country. We don't have the Thought Police and Speech Police in this country. That goes against everything this country stands for. If this was Bush or Mccain all you Obama followers would be up in arms about. And rightly so. Because this is an injustice to freedom and liberty. Not to mention the Constitution. So now we have truth squads that will have people arrested for speaking against Obama. This is madness and pure insanity. Has it really come to this in our country. Land of the Free? Home of the Brave? This guy isn't even president yet and he acting like this. My first reaction to this video was that it was fake. I couldn't believe Obama would go to this low level of Fascist Tactics. (Then again he did have "free speech" zones at his convention.) I'm even more shocked that his followers would actually support and defend this clear act of Fascism. That's what gets me the most. Are you guys really that blind? That you will follow Obama anywhere? Even to the brink of insanity? Even to the point of losing your country and your liberties? This is madness. Your die hard support for this man has blinded you. Please for the sake of our country and yourself. Step back and realize what it is you're supporting and defending. This is America. Not Nazi Germany. Wake up.



Not in my country.

phinfan3411
09-28-2008, 12:47 AM
OMG, now i'm comparing you to someone that killed millions!

phinfan3411
09-28-2008, 12:49 AM
This is disgusting. And anyone that supports and defends this should cease to call themselves Americans. Take down the Star and Stripes and replace it with Swastikas. Because that is what this amounts too. We have free speech and expression in this country. We don't have the Thought Police and Speech Police in this country. That goes against everything this country stands for. If this was Bush or Mccain all you Obama followers would be up in arms about. And rightly so. Because this is an injustice to freedom and liberty. Not to mention the Constitution. So now we have truth squads that will have people arrested for speaking against Obama. This is madness and pure insanity. Has it really come to this in our country. Land of the Free? Home of the Brave? This guy isn't even president yet and he acting like this. My first reaction to this video was that it was fake. I couldn't believe Obama would go to this low level of Fascist Tactics. (Then again he did have "free speech" zones at his convention.) I'm even more shocked that his followers would actually support and defend this clear act of Fascism. That's what gets me the most. Are you guys really that blind? That you will follow Obama anywhere? Even to the brink of insanity? Even to the point of losing your country and your liberties? This is madness. Your die hard support for this man has blinded you. Please for the sake of our country and yourself. Step back and realize what it is your are supporting and defending. This is America. Not Nazi Germany. Wake up.




Not in my country.


Gonzo, he is doing too! Shame, shame on us all huh?

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 12:54 AM
I'm surprised that conservatives are advocating not enforcing the law. Free speech has always had its limits, you can't openly slander or libel anybody. I understand advocating anarchism is cool and all but some of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Also to answer a question we don't know that McCain isn't doing the same, he could be doing it all over the country. McCain has just as much right to have prosecutors look into possible libel/slander suits. McCain has just as much right to protect himself according to the law. But I guess if Obama does it, he's Hitler, gestapo, nazi, etc. This is more than just an overreaction, this is ludicrous.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 12:55 AM
My tone? Disagreement is my only tone and I'm entitled to it, just as you are.

What has been said and done to Palin that hasn't been twisting words ("Lipstick on a pig?" That backfired :lol: )? Better yet, what has been DONE to her?

The government employees are not "working for him." Spin. They are working for the government and protecting one of it's citizens, which is their job.

For all we know, they are protecting both. The libelous attacks against Obama have been far greater in number and have obviously attracted the attention of law enforcement.

I never called you an idiot. We disagree. Such is life.


It was Obama's campaign along with pro-Obama prosecutors that brought this to attention of law enforcement. It wasn't the other way around. Now they have Sheriffs on board too. So who is going to go after Obama and his supporters when he lies? Can we now arrest Obama when he lies? How far do you want to go with this? This is nothing but the opening of Pandora's box and clear violation of our freedom. Who will be the Arbiter of these lies? Don't you see the disaster this would cause to our country and our freedom? I can't believe that I'm seeing this in my country.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 01:11 AM
I'm surprised that conservatives are advocating not enforcing the law. Free speech has always had its limits, you can't openly slander or libel anybody. I understand advocating anarchism is cool and all but some of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Also to answer a question we don't know that McCain isn't doing the same, he could be doing it all over the country. McCain has just as much right to have prosecutors look into possible libel/slander suits. McCain has just as much right to protect himself according to the law. But I guess if Obama does it, he's Hitler, gestapo, nazi, etc. This is more than just an overreaction, this is ludicrous.


I would expect something like this from Bush. But even he hasn't come up with a plan this sinister. If Mccain was doing this I would attack him as well. To me it doesn't matter which party or candidate. This is wrong regardless of who it is. I can't believe I'm seeing this. I can't believe you guys are defending this. I really thought this was a joke. This couldn't be real. First we had Paramilitary enforcement of "free speech" zones. Followed by raids on protesters. Now this. We are losing our freedoms fast in this country.

I don't think it's an overreaction with you have the Governor of this State speaking out against this.

http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 01:19 AM
I would expect something like this from Bush. But even he hasn't come up with a plan this sinister. If Mccain was doing this I would attack him as well. To me it doesn't matter which party or candidate. This is wrong regardless who it is. I can't believe I'm seeing this. I can't believe you guys are defending this. I really thought this was a joke. This couldn't be real. First we had Paramilitary enforcement of "free speech" zones. Followed by raids on protesters. Now this. We are losing our freedoms fast in this country.

I don't think it's an overreaction with you have the Governor of this State speaking out against this.

http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem

We've never had the freedom to openly slander/libel anybody. This isn't a freedom to lose, we never had it. This is only defamation law, it's not a big deal. Celebrities go through it all the time. Politicians have a hard time proving it because there is a special standard for public servants/characters. Apparently Missouri has a statute regarding ethics. This would be a specific branch of defamation. It's not like people are going to be arrested and thrown in jail. What happens if somebody is found quilty of a violation, they have to take the statement or sign down and pay a fine. Nobody is being beaten, killed, or jailed over this. It's a common law that's hard to enforce that has little ramification if found quilty.

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 01:28 AM
So do I report your personal attacks on me to you?

Nobody has personally attacked you in this thread.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 01:29 AM
We've never had the freedom to openly slander/libel anybody. This isn't a freedom to lose, we never had it. This is only defamation law, it's not a big deal. Celebrities go through it all the time. Politicians have a hard time proving it because there is a special standard for public servants/characters. Apparently Missouri has a statute regarding ethics. This would be a specific branch of defamation. It's not like people are going to be arrested and thrown in jail. What happens if somebody is found quilty of a violation, they have to take the statement or sign down and pay a fine. Nobody is being beaten, killed, or jailed over this. It's a common law that's hard to enforce that has little ramification if found quilty.


What this does is open Pandora's box. Now we will have the government listening to everything we say to make sure we don't slander or lie. I have a question. Who is going to watch over the government and candidates when they slander and lie? If no one is going to jail over this. Then why have prosecutors, law enforcement and Sheriffs involved? Seems to me that when they get involved. Someone is going to jail. If there is slander going around then sue the people. We don't need truth squads trying to get people arrested. That's insane.

Dolphan7
09-28-2008, 01:31 AM
I just wonder how different this thread would be if the candidate in the OP was John McCain.

I can't help but wonder about a double standard among supporters.

I would say regarding this matter, wait until they actually arrest or charge someone, then we can discuss. Right now it just seems like a bunch of words.

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 01:40 AM
What this does is open Pandora's box. Now we will have the government listening to everything we say to make sure we don't slander or lie. I have a question. Who is going to watch over the government and candidates when they slander and lie? If no one is going to jail over this. Then why have prosecutors, law enforcement and Sheriffs involved? Seems to me that when they get involved. Someone is going to jail. If there is slander going around then sue the people. We don't need truth squads trying to get people arrested. That's insane.

I don't think they're trying to get people arrested, I think they're trying to get whatever ads that violate the ethics statute to cease.

I don't know why they have sheriffs involved. Maybe the report was a little misleading, I don't know.

Like I said earlier this is a hard law to prove, it's nearly impossible for the government to be found guilty of libel or slander. There is a cut off on the number in a group that can be defamed. An example would be if there are ten employees that work in a store and somebody starts a rumor that an employee exposed themselves. There may not be a remedy for the ten because a court may find that the group of them is large enough that they weren't harmed. Sounds odd but that's how the law has worked in common law. The government would have to pinpoint one individual to slander and that slander has to cause that individual harm. I can call you a name and if you're not harmed by it you haven't been defamed. Defamation law is tricky, the courts frown on it.

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 01:47 AM
I just wonder how different this thread would be if the candidate in the OP was John McCain.

I can't help but wonder about a double standard among supporters.



I can say that I don't have a double standard with this issue. If McCain wants to protect his reputation against lies then he has the right to seek a legal remedy.

I've noticed though that this 'double standard' has been thrown out a lot lately and I don't see it. McCain supporters claim that if they say something about Obama they'll get bashed for it. But McCain supporters say crazy stuff about Obama all the time. McCain supporters claim that if Obama would have suspended his campaign and claimed to focus on the economic crisis his supporters would rave about how wonderful a decision it is. But McCain supporters cheered the decision McCain made. It seems to me everybody has been falling in line and acting the same with regards to who they support. McCain supporters cheer McCain and boo Obama. Obama supporters cheer Obama, and boo McCain. Nothing new, no double standard.

Dolphan7
09-28-2008, 02:01 AM
I can say that I don't have a double standard with this issue. If McCain wants to protect his reputation against lies then he has the right to seek a legal remedy.

I've noticed though that this 'double standard' has been thrown out a lot lately and I don't see it. McCain supporters claim that if they say something about Obama they'll get bashed for it. But McCain supporters say crazy stuff about Obama all the time. McCain supporters claim that if Obama would have suspended his campaign and claimed to focus on the economic crisis his supporters would rave about how wonderful a decision it is. But McCain supporters cheered the decision McCain made. It seems to me everybody has been falling in line and acting the same with regards to who they support. McCain supporters cheer McCain and boo Obama. Obama supporters cheer Obama, and boo McCain. Nothing new, no double standard.Sure there is a double standard. It isn't glaringly obvious, but it is there. It basically looks like this: My guy does it = ok, the other guy does it = not ok. Sometimes we will never know how supporters would react becasue it is a hypothetical argument, thus I use words like "wonder".

I wonder how Obama supporters would have reacted to him canceling his campaign to go back to Washington to work on this deal. I can only wonder because it never happened.

What I can tell you is that look at the amount of threads and posts criticizing McCain's decision to do just that, and ask yourself if we would see the same number of posts and threads from Obama supporters condemning Obama for the same thing?

I am not a betting man, never really have been, except on sure things. But I would bet that the answer to the above question would be no. That is the double standard. It isn't limited to just one side, but it is predominantly on the Obama side because they are the most vocal group.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 02:04 AM
I don't think they're trying to get people arrested, I think they're trying to get whatever ads that violate the ethics statute to cease.

I don't know why they have sheriffs involved. Maybe the report was a little misleading, I don't know.

Like I said earlier this is a hard law to prove, it's nearly impossible for the government to be found guilty of libel or slander. There is a cut off on the number in a group that can be defamed. An example would be if there are ten employees that work in a store and somebody starts a rumor that an employee exposed themselves. There may not be a remedy for the ten because a court may find that the group of them is large enough that they weren't harmed. Sounds odd but that's how the law has worked in common law. The government would have to pinpoint one individual to slander and that slander has to cause that individual harm. I can call you a name and if you're not harmed by it you haven't been defamed. Defamation law is tricky, the courts frown on it.

According to the news piece and the Governor of the State. The police and law enforcement are involved. And according to the news piece. Obama's campaign has said that law enforcement is involved.




“St. Louis County Circuit Attorney Bob McCulloch, St. Louis City Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce, Jefferson County Sheriff Glenn Boyer, and Obama and the leader of his Missouri campaign Senator Claire McCaskill have attached the stench of police state tactics to the Obama-Biden campaign.
“What Senator Obama and his helpers are doing is scandalous beyond words, the party that claims to be the party of Thomas Jefferson is abusing the justice system and offices of public trust to silence political criticism with threats of prosecution and criminal punishment.


Governor Matt Blunt of Missouri

If someone is slandering then sue them. I have no problem with that at all. It's when you have truth squads and law enforcement involved. That's when it get's out of control. And becomes a clear abuse of power. You don't get the police and Sheriffs involved unless someone is going to jail.

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 02:08 AM
Sure there is a double standard. It isn't glaringly obvious, but it is there. It basically looks like this: My guy does it = ok, the other guy does it = not ok. Sometimes we will never know how supporters would react becasue it is a hypothetical argument, thus I use words like "wonder".

I wonder how Obama supporters would have reacted to him canceling his campaign to go back to Washington to work on this deal. I can only wonder because it never happened.

What I can tell you is that look at the amount of threads and posts criticizing McCain's decision to do just that, and ask yourself if we would see the same number of posts and threads from Obama supporters condemning Obama for the same thing?

I am not a betting man, never really have been, except on sure things. But I would bet that the answer to the above question would be no. That is the double standard. It isn't limited to just one side, but it is predominantly on the Obama side because they are the most vocal group.

I agree. I was confused on what you meant by double standard. I thought you were saying that McCain supporters are more even handed. I think both are equally unfair. McCain supporters would have bashed Obama for suspending his campaign and going to DC, just like Obama supporters bashed McCain for doing it. That's why I said there wasn't a double standard because both sides equally fall in line with who they support.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 02:13 AM
I just wonder how different this thread would be if the candidate in the OP was John McCain.

I can't help but wonder about a double standard among supporters.

I would say regarding this matter, wait until they actually arrest or charge someone, then we can discuss. Right now it just seems like a bunch of words.


Because of the Internet and media attention this is getting. Then maybe people won't get arrested. And Obama will realize what a stupid idea this is. One can only hope.

I also believe that if this was Mccain. All hell would have broke lose with Obama followers. And that's what are elections have become. Two sides blindly following their candidates. No matter what. The hell with reason and logic. Madness rules the day.

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 02:15 AM
According to the news piece and the Governor of the State. The police and law enforcement are involved. And according to the news piece. Obama's campaign has said that law enforcement is involved.



Governor Matt Blunt of Missouri

If someone is slandering then sue them. I have no problem with that at all. It's when you have truth squads and law enforcement involved. That's when it get's out of control. And becomes a clear abuse of power. You don't get the police and Sheriffs involved unless someone is going to jail.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what "involved" means. It could mean a number of things from doing what is right to abusing their powers. I didn't put much stock in the governor's statement, it's clearly partisan.

I agree with you, if they're kicking down doors and arresting everybody that criticizes Obama then that's a huge problem to say the least.

However, I disagree with you in regards that I don't believe that is happening nor will it happen. I simply think they are looking to eliminate any illegal (violation of the ethics statute) ads, commericals, etc. But I could be wrong, only time will tell.

Blackocrates
09-28-2008, 02:17 AM
I also believe that if this was Mccain. All hell would have broke lose with Obama followers.

And McCain supporters would applaud it as good politics, a shrewd move on his part.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 02:18 AM
I guess we'll have to wait and see what "involved" means. It could mean a number of things from doing what is right to abusing their powers. I didn't put much stock in the governor's statement, it's clearly partisan.

I agree with you, if they're kicking down doors and arresting everybody that criticizes Obama then that's a huge problem to say the least.

However, I disagree with you in regards that I don't believe that is happening nor will it happen. I simply think they are looking to eliminate any illegal (violation of the ethics statute) ads, commericals, etc. But I could be wrong, only time will tell.


Well like I said in my post to D7. Maybe all the internet and media attention will keep that from happening. And that would be a good thing.

Gonzo
09-28-2008, 11:11 AM
It was Obama's campaign along with pro-Obama prosecutors that brought this to attention of law enforcement. It wasn't the other way around. Now they have Sheriffs on board too. So who is going to go after Obama and his supporters when he lies? Can we now arrest Obama when he lies? How far do you want to go with this? This is nothing but the opening of Pandora's box and clear violation of our freedom. Who will be the Arbiter of these lies? Don't you see the disaster this would cause to our country and our freedom? I can't believe that I'm seeing this in my country.
I've watched it several times and have yet to see where it says any of the things being claimed.

1) At no point do they say they are arresting anybody.
2) None are being forced to enforce the law (they shouldn't have to be forced to do their jobs), they are volunteering to do so.
3) The libel law protects our freedom. It prevents defamation that can destroy careers with blatant lies.
4) Obama didn't hire these officials. He went to them with a complaint and requested their assistance in preventing illegal activity. If a person's house continuously gets broken into, is he wrong to request the assistance of law enforcement, or should he just deal with it?

And I keep reading that those who support Obama wouldn't react the same way if it were McCain, yet all of us on here have said we would and have been quite clear in that. I certainly hope they are going after those who libel McCain. If some jackass went on the air and claimed McCain was a member of the KKK or a baby killer, I certainly hope law enforcement would get involved. Those kind of tactics have no place in the world's greatest democracy.

Plain and simple, it's the law. You can't pick and choose. If you disagree with libel laws, there are ways in which you can fight to have them removed, but it will be an uphill battle.

Gonzo
09-28-2008, 11:12 AM
I guess we'll have to wait and see what "involved" means. It could mean a number of things from doing what is right to abusing their powers. I didn't put much stock in the governor's statement, it's clearly partisan.

I agree with you, if they're kicking down doors and arresting everybody that criticizes Obama then that's a huge problem to say the least.

However, I disagree with you in regards that I don't believe that is happening nor will it happen. I simply think they are looking to eliminate any illegal (violation of the ethics statute) ads, commericals, etc. But I could be wrong, only time will tell.
I agree 100%.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2008, 12:54 PM
I've watched it several times and have yet to see where it says any of the things being claimed.

1) At no point do they say they are arresting anybody.
2) None are being forced to enforce the law (they shouldn't have to be forced to do their jobs), they are volunteering to do so.
3) The libel law protects our freedom. It prevents defamation that can destroy careers with blatant lies.
4) Obama didn't hire these officials. He went to them with a complaint and requested their assistance in preventing illegal activity. If a person's house continuously gets broken into, is he wrong to request the assistance of law enforcement, or should he just deal with it?

And I keep reading that those who support Obama wouldn't react the same way if it were McCain, yet all of us on here have said we would and have been quite clear in that. I certainly hope they are going after those who libel McCain. If some jackass went on the air and claimed McCain was a member of the KKK or a baby killer, I certainly hope law enforcement would get involved. Those kind of tactics have no place in the world's greatest democracy.

Plain and simple, it's the law. You can't pick and choose. If you disagree with libel laws, there are ways in which you can fight to have them removed, but it will be an uphill battle.




1) At no point do they say they are arresting anybody.


Really? Then why have prosecutors, Sheriffs and law enforcement involved? So they can all sit around and have a picnic? When they get involved someone is going to jail. Make no mistake about that.



2) None are being forced to enforce the law (they shouldn't have to be forced to do their jobs), they are volunteering to do so.


The qusetion would be. When was the last time this law was enforced? If not at all. They wouldn't be doing this if they weren't Pro-Obama. This is clearly the Obama campaign and supporters abusing their powers. All those involved from the prosecutors, and Sheriffs are pro Obama.


3) The libel law protects our freedom. It prevents defamation that can destroy careers with blatant lies.

Then sue them!!!!! We don't need truth squads going around getting people arrested. That's unnecessary and an abuse of power. Who is going to be the Arbitor of this speech? The Obama Campaign and his supporters? No thanks.


4) Obama didn't hire these officials. He went to them with a complaint and requested their assistance in preventing illegal activity. If a person's house continuously gets broken into, is he wrong to request the assistance of law enforcement, or should he just deal with it?


I didn't see anywhere in the news piece that said Obama hired these people. So I don't know where you're getting that. And to compare breaking into someone'e house to this is a joke. Breaking into someone's home is a clear violation of your rights and safety. I don't see how talking bad about Obama can even be compared. So now everytime we talk bad about Obama we are no different than people who break into homes? Don't you see how silly that sounds?

You say that no one is getting arrested but then support law enforcement getting involved. You're contradicting yourself. What the hell do you want the law enforcement to do. Shake hands with the guy? And contrary to what you believe. Someone going on the radio and calling Mccain a member of the KKK and baby killer is protected speech. They shouldn't get arrested for that. Where do you draw the line? What if I did a comedy routine on the radio that called Mccain and Obama members of the KKK, baby killers and Muslims. Should I get arrested for that?

Gonzo
09-28-2008, 03:28 PM
Really? Then why have prosecutors, Sheriffs and law enforcement involved? So they can all sit around and have a picnic? When they get involved someone is going to jail. Make no mistake about that.



The qusetion would be. When was the last time this law was enforced? If not at all. They wouldn't be doing this if they weren't Pro-Obama. This is clearly the Obama campaign and supporters abusing their powers. All those involved from the prosecutors, and Sheriffs are pro Obama.



Then sue them!!!!! We don't need truth squads going around getting people arrested. That's unnecessary and an abuse of power. Who is going to be the Arbitor of this speech? The Obama Campaign and his supporters? No thanks.



I didn't see anywhere in the news piece that said Obama hired these people. So I don't know where you're getting that. And to compare breaking into someone'e house to this is a joke. Breaking into someone's home is a clear violation of your rights and safety. I don't see how talking bad about Obama can even be compared. So now everytime we talk bad about Obama we are no different than people who break into homes? Don't you see how silly that sounds?

You say that no one is getting arrested but then support law enforcement getting involved. You're contradicting yourself. What the hell do you want the law enforcement to do. Shake hands with the guy? And contrary to what you believe. Someone going on the radio and calling Mccain a member of the KKK and baby killer is protected speech. They shouldn't get arrested for that. Where do you draw the line? What if I did a comedy routine on the radio that called Mccain and Obama members of the KKK, baby killers and Muslims. Should I get arrested for that?


You say that no one is getting arrested but then support law enforcement getting involved. You're contradicting yourself. Sorry, but no contradiction. A couple of years ago, I got a speeding ticket. I broke the law. Law enforcement got involved, a Texas sheriff in fact. I did not go to jail. Whether people will go to jail in this case, I highly doubt it, but I'm not sure what the minimum punishment in Missouri is for this law. I'm betting it results in fines if actually convicted. The biggest concern that violators should have is the possibility of such conviction going to civil court, where they could lose a lot of money if sued.

Libel law violations are most commonly seen in civil court, but there is more than enough precedent, including New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, which actually helped reign in our libel laws so we wouldn't become more like the U.K., which has some of the more stringent, free-speech threatening libel laws that don't necessarily require proof of actual malice. The arbiter will obviously be the judge heading the rare case that actually makes it to court. Actual malice is very difficult to prove.

Requesting law enforcement protection is not abuse of power. I'm going to have police guards at my wedding reception and I assure you, I have no power. Do the presidential candidates require more protection? Absolutely. I don't remember the last time I required protection from libel, but I have never ran for president or any other public office. I also don't require Secret Service protection.

The ridiculous, unwarranted, and untrue attacks in this campaign have gotten out of hand and distracted from the truly important issues. I hope it does cut down on the garbage on both sides of the aisle.

Several people on here have claimed Obama "hired" them, I wasn't referring to you specifically. And I never compared it to burglary. You misread what I wrote, which I figured would happen. My focus wasn't on burglary, but on the ability to seek assistance from law enforcement in the event of such a crime. A person can seek such assistance in any crime. However, libel does threaten a person's rights, albeit in a different manner than burglary.

As for protected speech, libel is not protected (hence the existence of the law). If actual malice is intended and statements are presented as facts that can threaten a persons livelihood, no, it's not protected under law. For example, if a woman comes out and claims sexual harassment by a CEO of a company (this is JUST AN EXAMPLE), the mere claims would threaten his job and livelihood, as well as his standing in the community. If those accusations are proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be completely false, that is libel and a violation of free speech because it is intended to actually harm an individual with outright lies, actual malice.

So, if someone went on the air and claimed it as fact that McCain killed babies and presented false evidence in support of such a claim, then yes, that is libelous and against the law. If you can't see the difference between that and a comedy routine, which are rarely presented as fact, then I'm not sure what else I can say.

Again, they won't be arrested for that. Not sure where people are getting that.

MDFINFAN
09-28-2008, 08:08 PM
I am going with what Wayward said in his post, I do not care if he is paying for it or not. I must be in the twilight zone, if I turned on my local news, and local sheriffs, or prosecuters were on the news saying they were going to watch out for OBAMA, and any misleading adds McCain might run(when they are both doing it), are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I would be down to that office so fast it would make your head spin.

Can you imagine if it was the other way around, MD would be screaming RACISM AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS. Obama is doing it however, and he is as quiet as a church mouse.

You guys are unbelieveable.

Why would I scream racism, this has nothing to do with race..:up: It has everything to to do with ethics, something you guys don't care about.... I don't think they target the normal ads, obviously there's more to this than the info we have.. Why don't you guys ever take a minute to think...There have been ads all over the country and Obama hasn't reacted to them...So obviously, if this is true there must be something overboard going on.. Since I notice the ppl mention muslim and christian, did McCain or a 527 run a ad saying the Obama is a Muslim...can you answer that, or can you tell me why Obama went this far...

Or should we Heil McCain, since he can fix everything..oh yea, I forgot, McCain said Obama didn't go to the townhalls with him and that's why he's running negative ads...I forgot, Obama has to do what McCain wants or it's hell to paid..

Speaking of Heil...

you should be saying Heil McCain.. Remember the fundalmentals of the economy are sound.. please vote for him and keep us in prison P3411:rolleyes2: Oh and I forgot, add his vp who thinks puttins raises his little head over the air space of AK and that's foreign experiences... and you guys really want to jump on Obama...who's candiates look stupid and who doesn't..? Keep defending bush 2...