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FinFatale
10-01-2008, 01:40 PM
Last year, for example, the average Senator voted with his own party 84 percent of the time; Obama voted with his party 96 percent of the time. In the prior two years, his number was 95 percent, making him the fourth most partisan member of the Senate. And not just partisan, but also highly ideological. In 2007, according to the National Journal, Obama’s voting record made him “the most liberal Senator.” Throughout his Senate career, according to Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), the dean of liberal advocacy groups, Obama voted “right” 90 percent of the time. Actually this is misleading, since ADA counts an absence as if it were a vote on the “wrong” side. If we discount his absences, Obama voted to ADA’s approval more than 98 percent of the time.
This touches directly on the question of what, beyond the platitudes of unity, hope, and change, Obama himself believes in. His voting record is one indication. Another is his intellectual evolution.


https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/obama-s-leftism-12961?page=all

interesting opinion piece...

BlueFin
10-01-2008, 06:21 PM
Well, there you have it, a knowledgable voter knows with little doubt about how far left Obama really is, the naive or non-informed voter believes all the campaign time rhetoric about moving to the center in an effort to get the votes of the centrist voters.

Whilst McCain is clearly a more centrist candidate who if anything had to move right a bit to satisfy the core of his party.

phinfan3411
10-01-2008, 06:54 PM
Whether right or wrong, this is where I have always presumed Obama fell, maybe not the "most" liberal, but one of the most.

I know about the political compass, but do not exactly agree with their ranking system.

lemonpepperfish
10-01-2008, 07:40 PM
yeah, conservatives have done a great job of leading this country! I may be able to keep up with my mortgage if the bottom doesn't completely fall out on my portfolio. Eight years and i may be out almost half a million, all told. Hurray for the right wing!!! Four more years will do me in. Sorry guys, i think i'd be awfully foolish if i put my vote in for four more years. I can only eat so much sht before i have to switch my allegiance. For the first time in twenty years i'm voting democratic. I only wish i had figured this out sooner! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three times, i must be a real idiot!

lemonpepperfish
10-01-2008, 07:41 PM
Ps: Bluefin, your sig says it all.

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 07:48 PM
yeah, conservatives have done a great job of leading this country! I may be able to keep up with my mortgage if the bottom doesn't completely fall out on my portfolio. Eight years and i may be out almost half a million, all told. Hurray for the right wing!!! Four more years will do me in. Sorry guys, i think i'd be awfully foolish if i put my vote in for four more years. I can only eat so much sht before i have to switch my allegiance. For the first time in twenty years i'm voting democratic. I only wish i had figured this out sooner! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three times, i must be a real idiot!

How is it up to the government to manage your portfolio??? whether it's the Democrates or the Republicans how is their fault if you have mismanaged your portfolio?????????? where is YOUR accountability in all of it????

MoFinz
10-01-2008, 07:55 PM
yeah, conservatives have done a great job of leading this country! I may be able to keep up with my mortgage if the bottom doesn't completely fall out on my portfolio. Eight years and i may be out almost half a million, all told. Hurray for the right wing!!! Four more years will do me in. Sorry guys, i think i'd be awfully foolish if i put my vote in for four more years. I can only eat so much sht before i have to switch my allegiance. For the first time in twenty years i'm voting democratic. I only wish i had figured this out sooner! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three times, i must be a real idiot!

Im sorry, did the conservatives sign your mortgage papers? Or tell you where to invest?If you portfolio is that irretrievably damaged, you either werent diverse enough or you werent invested in a proper portfolio where at least half your money goes into rock steady investments.
Blaming Bush for your financial state is kinda like blaming Ronald McDonald if you get a bad hamburger. Neither one of 'em is running the company you got a problem with, theyre just the easiest targets to blame failure on

BlueFin
10-01-2008, 08:31 PM
yeah, conservatives have done a great job of leading this country! I may be able to keep up with my mortgage if the bottom doesn't completely fall out on my portfolio. Eight years and i may be out almost half a million, all told. Hurray for the right wing!!! Four more years will do me in. Sorry guys, i think i'd be awfully foolish if i put my vote in for four more years. I can only eat so much sht before i have to switch my allegiance. For the first time in twenty years i'm voting democratic. I only wish i had figured this out sooner! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three times, i must be a real idiot!

Well maybe you should get informed, not only about playing the stock market, but about what the main cause of the banking crisis really is.

It was under Clinton that the federal government started pushing home loans to people who wouldn't normally qualify, it was the liberals who decided to use our banking system to experiment with social engineering, not the conservatives.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you there isn't blame to go around in a lot of directions, but the major problem started then.

The other part of the banking problem was people getting in over their heads in houses they couldn't afford, or couldn't afford if anything bad ever happened to them, of course the banks should have never made these loans. It was also house flippers, people who thought they'd getting rich buying and selling houses, leveraging themselves to the hilt to do it.

You can never assume things will always go well, the market is cyclic and wil always have ups and downs, the smart man is prepared to profit from good times and ride out the bad.

MoFinz
10-01-2008, 08:35 PM
Well maybe you should get informed, not only about playing the stock market, but about what the main cause of the banking crisis really is.

It was under Clinton that the federal government started pushing home loans to people who wouldn't normally qualify, it was the liberals who decided to use our banking system to experiment with social engineering, not the conservatives.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you there isn't blame to go around in a lot of directions, but the major problem started then.

The other part of the banking problem was people getting in over their heads in houses they couldn't afford, or couldn't afford if anything bad ever happened to them, of course the banks should have never made these loans. It was also house flippers, people who thought they'd getting rich buying and selling houses, leveraging themselves to the hilt to do it.

You can never assume things will always go well, the market is cyclic and wil always have ups and downs, the smart man is prepared to profit from good times and ride out the bad.

Excellent points, especially at the end. You would think nobody made any money during the rollercoaster ride these past 2 weeks.

phinfan3411
10-01-2008, 08:49 PM
yeah, conservatives have done a great job of leading this country! I may be able to keep up with my mortgage if the bottom doesn't completely fall out on my portfolio. Eight years and i may be out almost half a million, all told. Hurray for the right wing!!! Four more years will do me in. Sorry guys, i think i'd be awfully foolish if i put my vote in for four more years. I can only eat so much sht before i have to switch my allegiance. For the first time in twenty years i'm voting democratic. I only wish i had figured this out sooner! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three times, i must be a real idiot!

For once, living in Western New York paid off for me. I feel for the people, on this board, and off that have been hit hard by this housing crisis. In WNY, we never had the boom most other places had, so our market really didn't change at all. Our houses, for the most part, are very cheap compared to the rest of the country, and lucky for me just about every house on my block that has been sold since I bought mine has sold for more than we paid.

Getting back more on point, as this crisis started to come to a head, I, like i'm sure many of you wanted to know how it happened, what could have triggered it. I have been doing as much reading on it as I could, and honestly would not bother me if my research brought me to Pres Bush, as I do not support him on many issues. Imo, I did not find much with him, but I am interested in whatever specifics you have found.

I am not interested in answers like: "That idiot Bush, all he did was deregulate stuff", I would like specifics please, like exactly what legislation led to exactly what.......

I'm sure a guy that has been voting republican for 20yrs, and may be out 500,000 dollars will have some specifics. I probably lost about 9-10 thousand in my 401k, and i'm mad as hell and have an idea of why.

phinfan3411
10-01-2008, 08:52 PM
Well maybe you should get informed, not only about playing the stock market, but about what the main cause of the banking crisis really is.

It was under Clinton that the federal government started pushing home loans to people who wouldn't normally qualify, it was the liberals who decided to use our banking system to experiment with social engineering, not the conservatives.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you there isn't blame to go around in a lot of directions, but the major problem started then.

The other part of the banking problem was people getting in over their heads in houses they couldn't afford, or couldn't afford if anything bad ever happened to them, of course the banks should have never made these loans. It was also house flippers, people who thought they'd getting rich buying and selling houses, leveraging themselves to the hilt to do it.

You can never assume things will always go well, the market is cyclic and wil always have ups and downs, the smart man is prepared to profit from good times and ride out the bad.


Great post, could not have said it better. Get tired of people just blaming their problems on whomever happens to be in the Whitehouse.

Tetragrammaton
10-01-2008, 10:02 PM
Whether right or wrong, this is where I have always presumed Obama fell, maybe not the "most" liberal, but one of the most.

I know about the political compass, but do not exactly agree with their ranking system.

Liberal? Yes. Leftist? No.

WSE
10-01-2008, 10:28 PM
Obama is pretty liberal, but he has key votes against that

He voted for Patriot Act (I'm sad to say most dems did), and he voted for the border wall on the US/Mexican border- two votes I highly disagree with him about.

He still has a pretty liberal record, but as a liberal, I could say he is no Dennis Kucinich, lol.

Dolphins9954
10-01-2008, 10:28 PM
Well maybe you should get informed, not only about playing the stock market, but about what the main cause of the banking crisis really is.

It was under Clinton that the federal government started pushing home loans to people who wouldn't normally qualify, it was the liberals who decided to use our banking system to experiment with social engineering, not the conservatives.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you there isn't blame to go around in a lot of directions, but the major problem started then.

The other part of the banking problem was people getting in over their heads in houses they couldn't afford, or couldn't afford if anything bad ever happened to them, of course the banks should have never made these loans. It was also house flippers, people who thought they'd getting rich buying and selling houses, leveraging themselves to the hilt to do it.

You can never assume things will always go well, the market is cyclic and wil always have ups and downs, the smart man is prepared to profit from good times and ride out the bad.


Good post. The bubble started with Clinton and burst with Bush. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was paying off politicians from both sides. Neither side can claim innocence here. And one more thing to add to this as well. All these inflated home prices lead to more property taxes. Which made the government real happy.

MDFINFAN
10-01-2008, 10:35 PM
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/obama-s-leftism-12961?page=all

interesting opinion piece...

How many of those votes were against Bush's requests..and this is old, why are you bring it back up, we've discussed this already.. So voting against Bush makes him a leftist..I'll take that anyday over those who voted with bush over 90 % of the time..:up:

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 10:38 PM
How many of those votes were against Bush's requests..and this is old, why are you bring it back up, we've discussed this already.. So voting against Bush makes him a leftist..I'll take that anyday over those who voted with bush over 90 % of the time..:up:

I brought it up because I thought the article hit on some valid issues.
To me it's not OLD.

MDFINFAN
10-01-2008, 10:44 PM
I brought it up because I thought the article hit on some valid issues.
To me it's not OLD.

In Obama's first 2 years the repubs were in control, I'd be a leftist in that situation..I would have voted against bush and the repubs in that circumstance...and since the dems have taken over, I think he's more toward the middle.... I just think his whole persona governs from the middle.. that's where I see him, and I think that's where we'll see him govern..I really think he'll work with repubs..even the repub rep in Oregon is campaigning using Obama as his up model..