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FinFatale
10-01-2008, 07:32 PM
I ask this question of those that are SURE that Senator Obama has really in his heart denounced all the things he aspired to re:Jeremiah Wright for example.....He did go to that church for over twenty years, the man did marry him and did baptize his children, he did write a book inspired by a sermon by Rev. Wright......how do you know for SURE that Senator Obama in his heart really has had a change of heart and it's not something just brought while seeking election votes????????? or do you care?

Personally I have a difficult time believing that every questionable person Senator Obama has been in some way affliated with suddenly are no longer any influence in his life.

lemonpepperfish
10-01-2008, 07:34 PM
i can see into Mccain's heart and it is empty. Is it really better to go with the devil you know then the one that you don't? I don't think my stock perfolio will last four more years. Also, i look at Palin and she sends shudders up my spine. Is she for real? Are you?

poornate
10-01-2008, 07:45 PM
Mmm... I think my answer is that I have yet to see a personal relationship that Obama has has that I find questionable enough to make me care... Look at your own lives... Any old freinds that wouldn't pass the test? Relatives? Let's be honest....

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 07:46 PM
i can see into Mccain's heart and it is empty. Is it really better to go with the devil you know then the one that you don't? I don't think my stock perfolio will last four more years. Also, i look at Palin and she sends shudders up my spine. Is she for real? Are you?

So I take it by your answer you don't have an answer regarding Senator Obama. Deferring the topic to Senator McCain isn't answering the question.
I

MoFinz
10-01-2008, 07:57 PM
i can see into Mccain's heart and it is empty. Is it really better to go with the devil you know then the one that you don't? I don't think my stock perfolio will last four more years. Also, i look at Palin and she sends shudders up my spine. Is she for real? Are you?

Dude...quit trolling.....you would be better served going and getting a second job judging by how youve mismanaged your portfolio thus far:boohoo:

BlueFin
10-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Mmm... I think my answer is that I have yet to see a personal relationship that Obama has has that I find questionable enough to make me care... Look at your own lives... Any old freinds that wouldn't pass the test? Relatives? Let's be honest....

Well lets see, Reverend Wright is a racist, supports Louis Farrakhan and traveled too Libya with him to meet with Khadaffi.

William Ayers, a known terrorist who is unrepentent, Obama served as chairman of a board with him, supports many of the radical education views of Ayers as part of their affiliation.....for example, both fought a law that would have treated a 17 year old, who has committed 3 violent crimes, as an adult.

Tony Rezco, well, bilked the taxpayers for tons of money with the help of Obama, Obama got his house and real estate as a side effect at a really good deal.

I honestly can say I haven't affiliated with anyone of those three's ilk.

Now if John McCain had attended the same church as David Duke, served on a board with Timothy McVigh, and received real estate in connection with someone he had helped get government funding for......you would all be hanging him out to dry, you could stick a fork in him, he would be done.

I applaud this thread, the truth is none of you can really be sure that all his rhetoric now is REAL and not just pandering for votes. None of you can really be sure that what is really in his heart is the very things he has lived up until earlier this year, when upon being called out on these subjects, he denounced and excused away his affiliations.

poornate
10-01-2008, 08:28 PM
Wright? I have no problem with him... I know the theology he follows... I know the meaning and spirit of it. The problem I have with Wright is that he wouldn't STFU when it became clear that his fiery oratory was chum in the water for the fear-factory Conservative gossip circuit.

Ayers? Again, no problem with it... he is a respected member of the academic community.. they served on a community action board... it was a naturally occurring professional association... they weren't out having beers and brats...

Rezco meet Keating... Keating? This is Rezco... To be fair... Do I think Rezco helped Obama get a good deal on his house. Yep. Do I care? Nope. I got inside help getting a good deal on one of my houses... and I am still grateful for it... You all act like you would mount your soapbox and speak out against the inside deal if it was offered to you... That's not true... Stop kidding yourself... I have no problem with McCain and Keating... It's just gray area stuff to me... We all get a perk from time to time... just happens... I don't think either relationship speaks to the morals of the men, though...

BlueFin
10-01-2008, 08:42 PM
Wright? I have no problem with him... I know the theology he follows... I know the meaning and spirit of it. The problem I have with Wright is that he wouldn't STFU when it became clear that his fiery oratory was chum in the water for the fear-factory Conservative gossip circuit.

Ayers? Again, no problem with it... he is a respected member of the academic community.. they served on a community action board... it was a naturally occurring professional association... they weren't out having beers and brats...

Rezco meet Keating... Keating? This is Rezco... To be fair... Do I think Rezco helped Obama get a good deal on his house. Yep. Do I care? Nope. I got inside help getting a good deal on one of my houses... and I am still grateful for it... You all act like you would mount your soapbox and speak out against the inside deal if it was offered to you... That's not true... Stop kidding yourself... I have no problem with McCain and Keating... It's just gray area stuff to me... We all get a perk from time to time... just happens... I don't think either relationship speaks to the morals of the men, though...

The more disturbing part of Obama's history, is his close affiliation with Wright, who is a racist, Farrakhan is a racist, and they support each other. Obama was perfectly comfortable in this atmosphere until Hillary called him out on it, it was then and only then that he backed away. I'll say again, Had McCain had a long philosophical relationship with David Duke, I doubt you would excuse it Nate.

I think the threadstarter is asking a great question, the truth is, anyone voting for Obama cannot be sure, and the reason it is pertenient is the large number of questionable affiliations in Obama's past.

If Obama is willing to affiliate with anyone to get elected, then he would also be willing to lie about his true core beliefs long enough to fool enough voters to get elected as well.

I hope and pray, should Obama get elected, that we have not been fooled.

poornate
10-01-2008, 09:08 PM
The problem I see with your post is that you say he would associate with anyone to get elected... but all three people you point out had nothing to do with getting him elected, state, senate, what have you... in fact, with the exception of Wright, they have had nothing to do with this campaign at all.... all they have done is hurt Obama... Please... in Illinois or in the Senate, please show me the political connection between Obama and Ayers or Rezko? And i mean something nefarious... Not a contribution or a support party... Something you construe as underhanded or wrong...

Tetragrammaton
10-01-2008, 10:00 PM
he did write a book inspired by a sermon by Rev. Wright

No he didn't.

Wright did his damage, and the polls showed it, but then the voters revealed that they didn't care. People aren't going to vote about a pastor of a church that Obama joined for political purposes.

I find it interesting that the same people who think Obama is a Muslim also criticize his Christian pastor. If he went there to hide his Muslim faith, why would Wright matter?

Dolphins9954
10-01-2008, 10:07 PM
The more disturbing part of Obama's history, is his close affiliation with Wright, who is a racist, Farrakhan is a racist, and they support each other. Obama was perfectly comfortable in this atmosphere until Hillary called him out on it, it was then and only then that he backed away. I'll say again, Had McCain had a long philosophical relationship with David Duke, I doubt you would excuse it Nate.

I think the threadstarter is asking a great question, the truth is, anyone voting for Obama cannot be sure, and the reason it is pertenient is the large number of questionable affiliations in Obama's past.

If Obama is willing to affiliate with anyone to get elected, then he would also be willing to lie about his true core beliefs long enough to fool enough voters to get elected as well.

I hope and pray, should Obama get elected, that we have not been fooled.

He already has lied about quite a few things already.

No money from Oil Companies.
No money from Lobbyists.
No money from Special Interests.
Saying that he can pay for his budget.
Saying that he will only raise taxes on the Rich.
The list goes on.

Obama is a typical politician that will do or say whatever he needs to get elected. He is no different than the rest and offers no "change" what so ever. Obama has many people fooled already. And if he wins we all have to suffer for it. Then again we will suffer with Mccain as well. He can't pay for his budget either. And like Obama will leave us with even more debt than before.

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 10:19 PM
No he didn't.

Wright did his damage, and the polls showed it, but then the voters revealed that they didn't care. People aren't going to vote about a pastor of a church that Obama joined for political purposes.

I find it interesting that the same people who think Obama is a Muslim also criticize his Christian pastor. If he went there to hide his Muslim faith, why would Wright matter?


well if he joined that church for political reasons who is to say that other things he is doing are for no more than " policial " reasons and to advance himself personally and not to bring a change for the people..............I mean come on..........

WSE
10-01-2008, 10:23 PM
Wright- I don't think he is a racist per say, and I really don't care about that association. He is a product of the 60's imo, and says some crazy stuff, but all in all did a lot to help get civil rights. Trinity is a huge church, with a huge following, and I don't fault Obama for attending at all. The anti American knock against Wright is bs in my opinion- you could be against US foreign policy and still love America. The quote people love to use about chickens coming home to roost in regards to 9/11 came originally from an ambassador.

Ayers is more fishy, but he is a distinguished professor at University of Chicago. They served together on a philantropic board, that by the sounds of it, does great things for the Chicago community. Community organizing is Obama's cup of tea- The Woods Fund does that, and is respected. They served together on the board.

Rezko= Keating. Big politicians= big money, and sometimes the people who give you the money arent all too great. Thats just the way it is.

Tetragrammaton
10-01-2008, 10:27 PM
well if he joined that church for political reasons who is to say that other things he is doing are for no more than " policial " reasons and to advance himself personally and not to bring a change for the people..............I mean come on..........

Everything that John McCain and Barack Obama have done has been calculated to help them attain higher office. Who could deny this?

milldog
10-01-2008, 10:27 PM
Well lets see, Reverend Wright is a racist, supports Louis Farrakhan and traveled too Libya with him to meet with Khadaffi.

William Ayers, a known terrorist who is unrepentent, Obama served as chairman of a board with him, supports many of the radical education views of Ayers as part of their affiliation.....for example, both fought a law that would have treated a 17 year old, who has committed 3 violent crimes, as an adult.

Tony Rezco, well, bilked the taxpayers for tons of money with the help of Obama, Obama got his house and real estate as a side effect at a really good deal.

I honestly can say I haven't affiliated with anyone of those three's ilk.

Now if John McCain had attended the same church as David Duke, served on a board with Timothy McVigh, and received real estate in connection with someone he had helped get government funding for......you would all be hanging him out to dry, you could stick a fork in him, he would be done.

I applaud this thread, the truth is none of you can really be sure that all his rhetoric now is REAL and not just pandering for votes. None of you can really be sure that what is really in his heart is the very things he has lived up until earlier this year, when upon being called out on these subjects, he denounced and excused away his affiliations.

I can tell you I have a few aquantices that are my friends that have had some shady dealings in life. Yes they are still my friends but definately not people I'd consider my "friends". I mean this by we all may have friends that are your friends but may not be there when you might need them most. I still stay in contact with many of them but I don't think its fair to say you are what you hang around with. I have some friends that are married, have babies, good wives yet still cheaters. I'm not a cheater because I love my wife and would never do anything to hurt her and I believe in god and know its wrong, plus were in love and don't need anyone else. Because I still befriend these aquantices doesn't mean I believe in ther values, so no, I don't agree with you here. You probably will say I'm not agreeing with you because I support Obama but that's not the case. i personally don't like the fact that he's been involved with shady characters in his past but I can't morally hold that against him or I'd be a hypocrite. I think Obama is a stand up guy and desperately wants to lead us to be better, if I didn't I would'nt be voting for him. neither candidate comes without baggage. this is not a sticking point for me.

MDFINFAN
10-01-2008, 10:29 PM
I ask this question of those that are SURE that Senator Obama has really in his heart denounced all the things he aspired to re:Jeremiah Wright for example.....He did go to that church for over twenty years, the man did marry him and did baptize his children, he did write a book inspired by a sermon by Rev. Wright......how do you know for SURE that Senator Obama in his heart really has had a change of heart and it's not something just brought while seeking election votes????????? or do you care?

Personally I have a difficult time believing that every questionable person Senator Obama has been in some way affliated with suddenly are no longer any influence in his life.

First you have to have the premise Rev. Wright is as described, a racist or anti american..well I don't believe that after watching him on tv and listening to him for the last 6 years. So no, Obama has no bad inspiration from wright...you really need to look over wright's total history and not just this political just gotcha soundbites.. I have a difficult time with ppl who don't see anyone in chicago questioning Obama's commitment, his none issues in terms of these associations..i.e., name some legislation that obama has sponsored that favor these questionable associations, name something Obama has done illegally based on these questionable associations, name a quote Obama has made that has these questionable associations written all over it. With all this BS about questionable associations show anything that has affected Obama's judgement in the Iill senate or the US senate...show at least one thing...he's been in public office for 12 years now..surely there should be something base on these questionable associations..if you can't find anything, I think that answered your questions...:rolleyes:

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 10:33 PM
Md Senator Obama just recently distanced himself from Rev. Wright, a matter of what months??? and who has Rev. Wright been associated with??? I mean one would even tell their children they are classed with the company they keep no???

poornate
10-01-2008, 10:38 PM
... If I run for office, I hope I'm not judged by every association I have evr had... My God... I can't imagine... and I am an honest and moral person.... You know that old saying about lying with the dogs? Well, that's humanity folks... it is unavoidable...

Tetragrammaton
10-01-2008, 10:40 PM
I am watching CNN, and they are saying that Republicans may focus back on Wright to turn the election back in their favor. But it seems that the troops already have the memo.

milldog
10-01-2008, 10:44 PM
Md Senator Obama just recently distanced himself from Rev. Wright, a matter of what months??? and who has Rev. Wright been associated with??? I mean one would even tell their children they are classed with the company they keep no???

BS!!! You are what you are and what you stand for...PERIOD! I doubt others influence you, why would you think its any different? Maybe when you're 12 that's true. So do you think because you think Rev. Wright is rascist Obama is? He distanced himself because Wright was hurting his campaign. Why can't you see that?

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 10:47 PM
I am watching CNN, and they are saying that Republicans may focus back on Wright to turn the election back in their favor. But it seems that the troops already have the memo.


I got no memo. I asked a sincere question. I don't understand why it's so difficult to answer without accusing me or anyone else whose answer doesn't suit of " attempting to turn an electon " . lol. I don't follow anything blindly, never have and never will. I am not a sheep. I have concerns with some of his associations. It's not like it's one person, it seems he associated himself with those who seem to have ' radical" points of view. That concerns me, It's that simple.

MDFINFAN
10-01-2008, 10:49 PM
Md Senator Obama just recently distanced himself from Rev. Wright, a matter of what months??? and who has Rev. Wright been associated with??? I mean one would even tell their children they are classed with the company they keep no???

That's because Wright was pissed at the media and ran over Obama, I don't blame Obama on that.. Wright was for Wright at that time and he left Obama hanging.. I have both crazy, or what you would call questionable friends, and I have what you would call main stream friends.. but my values are my values..none of them influcent me to do something I don't think is right, wouldn't you say the same about yourself.. In all this, what you don't think about is that here's 3 people the media loves to point to.. how many more friends and associates do Obama have that are not in the public view because they're so called main stream friends... have you even considered that? Do you know all the Keating 5 friends..the other ppl involved in that that McCain knows? Are you going to hold those associations against McCain?

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 10:50 PM
Obama was asked if he felt betrayed by Wright, who played a significant role in Obama's spiritual life for 20 years, performed his wedding and inspired the title of Obama's most recent book, "The Audacity of Hope.http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/28/obama_on_wright_he_does_not_sp.html

so the title of his book was inspired by a sermon that Rev. Wright did.

FinFatale
10-01-2008, 10:53 PM
... If I run for office, I hope I'm not judged by every association I have evr had... My God... I can't imagine... and I am an honest and moral person.... You know that old saying about lying with the dogs? Well, that's humanity folks... it is unavoidable...

The thing is Nate when someone opens themselves up publically they are open to scurtiny ( sp). That is the way it is. It's always been this way not just since Senator Obama decided to run.

MDFINFAN
10-01-2008, 10:57 PM
The thing is Nate when someone opens themselves up publically they are open to scurtiny ( sp). That is the way it is. It's always been this way not just since Senator Obama decided to run.

But the question is, is the scurtiny on this just, especially if there's no issues involving Obama in knowing these ppl.. "There's nothing on the table in terms of some judgment of Obama in his political life as a result of knowing these ppl and they are big wicks in the chicago political scene, so I'm assuming a lot of politicians know them.. again have you seen anyone from chicago, to include repub downing Obama because of these associations.. The repubs from that city could kill obama now that he has the national spotlight, but none of them is coming out against him.. A repub was the first person to do a Obama ad in Iowa from chicago.. that should say a lot about his character.

Dolphins9954
10-01-2008, 11:12 PM
i can see into Mccain's heart and it is empty. Is it really better to go with the devil you know then the one that you don't? I don't think my stock perfolio will last four more years. Also, i look at Palin and she sends shudders up my spine. Is she for real? Are you?


How bout no devil at all. Even you admit you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Or Devils as you put it. Which makes your arguement for Obama sound quite silly. Because in the end you're still voting for a Devil.

MDFINFAN
10-01-2008, 11:15 PM
How bout no devil at all. Even you admit you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Or Devils as you put it. Which makes your arguement for Obama sound quite silly. Because in the end you're still voting for a Devil.


And the name we should be voting for isssssss.......?

Tetragrammaton
10-01-2008, 11:47 PM
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/28/obama_on_wright_he_does_not_sp.html

so the title of his book was inspired by a sermon that Rev. Wright did.

Correct. I have read the book. There is a very short section at the end about Wright, and that is it.


I got no memo. I asked a sincere question. I don't understand why it's so difficult to answer without accusing me or anyone else whose answer doesn't suit of " attempting to turn an electon " . lol. I don't follow anything blindly, never have and never will. I am not a sheep. I have concerns with some of his associations. It's not like it's one person, it seems he associated himself with those who seem to have ' radical" points of view. That concerns me, It's that simple.

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the commentators. Sorry if you took it that way.

Dolphins9954
10-01-2008, 11:52 PM
And the name we should be voting for isssssss.......?


in 2012 hopefully.

The point I'm making is. When you admit your're voting for the lesser of two evils. Then your defence and support of that evil. Only makes you look silly. Because your're still voting for that evil.

poornate
10-02-2008, 09:58 AM
in 2012 hopefully.

The point I'm making is. When you admit your're voting for the lesser of two evils. Then your defence and support of that evil. Only makes you look silly. Because your're still voting for that evil.

Evil? Give me a break....

Tetragrammaton
10-02-2008, 10:07 AM
Like D9954, I am against the idea of voting for the lesser of two evils. It really is silly to not vote for who you believe in, and it reflects on ones intelligence.

I have voted third party (Libertarian in the 2006 Florida gubernatorial race), but I don't see Obama as a lesser of two evils. I see him as a superior candidate to McCain and all minor candidates.

BlueFin
10-02-2008, 10:55 AM
That's because Wright was pissed at the media and ran over Obama, I don't blame Obama on that.. Wright was for Wright at that time and he left Obama hanging.. I have both crazy, or what you would call questionable friends, and I have what you would call main stream friends.. but my values are my values..none of them influcent me to do something I don't think is right, wouldn't you say the same about yourself.. In all this, what you don't think about is that here's 3 people the media loves to point to.. how many more friends and associates do Obama have that are not in the public view because they're so called main stream friends... have you even considered that? Do you know all the Keating 5 friends..the other ppl involved in that that McCain knows? Are you going to hold those associations against McCain?

I think there is a difference between your spiritual leader for over 20 years and your friends.

BlueFin
10-02-2008, 11:14 AM
The problem I see with your post is that you say he would associate with anyone to get elected... but all three people you point out had nothing to do with getting him elected, state, senate, what have you... in fact, with the exception of Wright, they have had nothing to do with this campaign at all.... all they have done is hurt Obama... Please... in Illinois or in the Senate, please show me the political connection between Obama and Ayers or Rezko? And i mean something nefarious... Not a contribution or a support party... Something you construe as underhanded or wrong...

Rezco contributed to Obama's various campaigns and helped him raise money.

I'm not sure about Ayers contributions, I'll have to look into that, but serving in Chicago in an organization with William Ayers which expoused Ayers radical views, certainly helped Obama win over the neighborhoods in Chicago.

The point was not just about this campaign, the point was that Obama has gotten in bed with radicals in his pursuit of moving up the political ladder, and if McCain had done anything similar you guys would be banging that drum daily.

The troubling part about this is, does Obama really share these views of these radicals, he certainly had no problem associating with them until Hillary brought them out, and he thought it would effect his presidential run.

I have no problem voting for a black candidate (or half black/white in this case), but I do have a problem with voting for a someone who supports radicals and racists, who at the very least has exercized horrible judgement in affiliating with them, and in the worst scenario could actually believe all the things he lived up until a few months ago.

SpurzN703
10-02-2008, 11:19 AM
I ask this question of those that are SURE that Senator Obama has really in his heart denounced all the things he aspired to re:Jeremiah Wright for example.....He did go to that church for over twenty years, the man did marry him and did baptize his children, he did write a book inspired by a sermon by Rev. Wright......how do you know for SURE that Senator Obama in his heart really has had a change of heart and it's not something just brought while seeking election votes????????? or do you care?

Personally I have a difficult time believing that every questionable person Senator Obama has been in some way affliated with suddenly are no longer any influence in his life.

Nobody knows for sure and the ones that say they do have no clue

SpurzN703
10-02-2008, 11:23 AM
I can tell you I have a few aquantices that are my friends that have had some shady dealings in life. Yes they are still my friends but definately not people I'd consider my "friends". I mean this by we all may have friends that are your friends but may not be there when you might need them most. I still stay in contact with many of them but I don't think its fair to say you are what you hang around with. I have some friends that are married, have babies, good wives yet still cheaters. I'm not a cheater because I love my wife and would never do anything to hurt her and I believe in god and know its wrong, plus were in love and don't need anyone else. Because I still befriend these aquantices doesn't mean I believe in ther values, so no, I don't agree with you here. You probably will say I'm not agreeing with you because I support Obama but that's not the case. i personally don't like the fact that he's been involved with shady characters in his past but I can't morally hold that against him or I'd be a hypocrite. I think Obama is a stand up guy and desperately wants to lead us to be better, if I didn't I would'nt be voting for him. neither candidate comes without baggage. this is not a sticking point for me.

Your friends have nothing to do with a presidential candidate who makes decisions for millions of Americans at his job. Your analogy isn't even close to being logical man.

Dolphins9954
10-02-2008, 11:29 AM
Evil? Give me a break....


Tell that to the guy who said it. He admitted that he was voting for a "Devil".

Dolphins9954
10-02-2008, 11:30 AM
Like D9954, I am against the idea of voting for the lesser of two evils. It really is silly to not vote for who you believe in, and it reflects on ones intelligence.

I have voted third party (Libertarian in the 2006 Florida gubernatorial race), but I don't see Obama as a lesser of two evils. I see him as a superior candidate to McCain and all minor candidates.

A superior candidate that will give you the same exact result. You really have no choice in the matter. That's an illusion.

MDFINFAN
10-02-2008, 11:50 AM
I think there is a difference between your spiritual leader for over 20 years and your friends.

Huh...know there's not.. ppl go to church every Sunday and cuss every monday... I like Obama, but I don't see him as a religious titan...I think he's Sunday going person...but not involved in the church other than that...ppl who are real followers in their church usually participate in the ministries of the church...care to name a ministry Obama participates in... Take a step back, even though you believe wright is this racist and anti american because he used the term white man, and said america has done some bad things..., This same racist has a over whelming amount of White ppl supporting him, WHO, and I stress, know him.. His church is in a denomination that's 90 % white.. So his immediate supervisors are WHITE. His mentor is white. He has white members of his church.. Germans have visited his church and he spoke in german with them.. He has a long history of lecturing in white churches, white organizations, 3 presidential citations..and he's grown one of the largest churches in America.. In religion, that generally happens when you're serving God's will...and most of the time, that means the ordinary person won't understand..because they dibble dabble in religions but don't take it to the next step, and ppl who live in the next step are often mock by the regular joe. Obama hasn't taken it to the next step either..

BlueFin
10-02-2008, 11:57 AM
Huh...know there's not.. ppl go to church every Sunday and cuss every monday... I like Obama, but I don't see him as a religious titan...I think he's Sunday going person...but not involved in the church other than that...ppl who are real followers in their church usually participate in the ministries of the church...care to name a ministry Obama participates in... Take a step back, even though you believe wright is this racist and anti american because he used the term white man, and said america has done some bad things..., This same racist has a over whelming amount of White ppl supporting him, WHO, and I stress, know him.. His church is in a denomination that's 90 % white.. So his immediate supervisors are WHITE. His mentor is white. He has white members of his church.. Germans have visited his church and he spoke in german with them.. He has a long history of lecturing in white churches, white organizations, 3 presidential citations..and he's grown one of the largest churches in America.. In religion, that generally happens when you're serving God's will...and most of the time, that means the ordinary person won't understand..because they dibble dabble in religions but don't take it to the next step, and ppl who live in the next step are often mock by the regular joe. Obama hasn't taken it to the next step either..


Yes, its so upright that Barrack ran away like Carl Lewis once Hillary brought it up, instead of defending something that was innocent....as you say MD.

FinFatale
10-02-2008, 12:11 PM
Correct. I have read the book. There is a very short section at the end about Wright, and that is it.



I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the commentators. Sorry if you took it that way.


Thanks WWZ. I get overboard sometimes and get defensive. Appreciate you clearing that up!

MDFINFAN
10-02-2008, 01:15 PM
Yes, its so upright that Barrack ran away like Carl Lewis once Hillary brought it up, instead of defending something that was innocent....as you say MD.

I think you missed my point, Obama is not a religious zealot, Wright pissed him off, and obama dropped him. If Obama had been in a ministry, I think he'd still be defending Wright..he tried and Wright was too caught up with the media doesn't know more than him about religion and has no right questioning him, especially after misrepresenting him.. His throwing Obama under the bus, wasn't innocent, that was painful.. The ministry of Wright is innocent, but the bs Wright express about Obama wasn't...as I would say..:up:

poornate
10-02-2008, 01:20 PM
Rezco contributed to Obama's various campaigns and helped him raise money.

I'm not sure about Ayers contributions, I'll have to look into that, but serving in Chicago in an organization with William Ayers which expoused Ayers radical views, certainly helped Obama win over the neighborhoods in Chicago.

The point was not just about this campaign, the point was that Obama has gotten in bed with radicals in his pursuit of moving up the political ladder, and if McCain had done anything similar you guys would be banging that drum daily.

The troubling part about this is, does Obama really share these views of these radicals, he certainly had no problem associating with them until Hillary brought them out, and he thought it would effect his presidential run.

I have no problem voting for a black candidate (or half black/white in this case), but I do have a problem with voting for a someone who supports radicals and racists, who at the very least has exercized horrible judgement in affiliating with them, and in the worst scenario could actually believe all the things he lived up until a few months ago.

Radical views=Voter registration/Poverty Fund.... Wow... that is out there...

I hope he believes in all the things he lived up until a few months ago... helping people, political action, assisting the poor, the value of public service, the value of education.... Please, please let him still believe in all the things he has lived for....

shula_guy
10-02-2008, 01:42 PM
For the sake of argument: Lets say Obama is a racist. Does it matter? I Dont think it does, America would not allow him to push a racial bias agenda. I think that is the smaller aspect of the reason to be concerned. However what is very troubling about his past and present affiliations is this......

When we choose a president we are not electing someone who is an expert on everything under the sun. We are electing someone we believe will make good decisions for our country. He needs to have a good cabinet, be a real patriot, and capable of making sound decisions based on the information he is given at the time he gets it.
In the short term it may of been politically lucrative for Obama to affiliate himself with the people he did, but it was not a sound long term decision. I don't question Obama's heart, I question his ability to make decisions that are good for our country over the long term. If he could not see that maintaining a long term relationship with publically outspoken militant figures would be politically harmfull to his career then I have to ask myself If he is going to wrecklessly lead this country into simliar perils.

MDFINFAN
10-02-2008, 01:49 PM
For the sake of argument: Lets say Obama is a racist. Does it matter? I Dont think it does, America would not allow him to push a racial bias agenda. I think that is the smaller aspect of the reason to be concerned. However what is very troubling about his past and present affiliations is this......

When we choose a president we are not electing someone who is an expert on everything under the sun. We are electing someone we believe will make good decisions for our country. He needs to have a good cabinet, be a real patriot, and capable of making sound decisions based on the information he is given at the time he gets it.
In the short term it may of been politically lucrative for Obama to affiliate himself with the people he did, but it was not a sound long term decision. I don't question Obama's heart, I question his ability to make decisions that are good for our country over the long term. If he could not see that maintaining a long term relationship with publically outspoken militant figures would be politically harmfull to his career then I have to ask myself If he is going to wrecklessly lead this country into simliar perils.


I've use this kind of argument before...it's too much.. somehow, their stuck on 2-4 ppl having more influcent on Obma then all the other ppl Obama might know...:shakeno:
I think the answer to your last point is no... those ppl have never done anything illegal in his time of knowing Obama and I think it has no bearing on his long term judgement.

FinFatale
10-02-2008, 01:51 PM
For the sake of argument: Lets say Obama is a racist. Does it matter? I Dont think it does, America would not allow him to push a racial bias agenda. I think that is the smaller aspect of the reason to be concerned. However what is very troubling about his past and present affiliations is this......

When we choose a president we are not electing someone who is an expert on everything under the sun. We are electing someone we believe will make good decisions for our country. He needs to have a good cabinet, be a real patriot, and capable of making sound decisions based on the information he is given at the time he gets it.
In the short term it may of been politically lucrative for Obama to affiliate himself with the people he did, but it was not a sound long term decision. I don't question Obama's heart, I question his ability to make decisions that are good for our country over the long term. If he could not see that maintaining a long term relationship with publically outspoken militant figures would be politically harmfull to his career then I have to ask myself If he is going to wrecklessly lead this country into simliar perils.


Excellent point, well made. It's just that that has me concerned in a nutshell.

MDFINFAN
10-02-2008, 02:13 PM
Excellent point, well made. It's just that that has me concerned in a nutshell.

Then here's my question, what might Obama do based on knowing these ppl...and I'm sure he's not the only one who knows these ppl...Does not his associations with other ppl who aren't as recognized play just as a important role in his life?

FinFatale
10-02-2008, 02:24 PM
Then here's my question, what might Obama do based on knowing these ppl...and I'm sure he's not the only one who knows these ppl...Does not his associations with other ppl who aren't as recognized play just as a important role in his life?


No he isn' the only one that knows these people, of course he isn't but he is the one that is currently running for President of the United States. It just seems as though he has associated with these " types" ( for lack of a better word at the moment) for his political gain, ( I suppose) and it makes me leery of him.

MDFINFAN
10-02-2008, 02:33 PM
No he isn' the only one that knows these people, of course he isn't but he is the one that is currently running for President of the United States. It just seems as though he has associated with these " types" ( for lack of a better word at the moment) for his political gain, ( I suppose) and it makes me leery of him.

Does McCain's associations also make you leery of him.. he does things for politicial gain also...that's why he seek endorsements for Haggee and Flanigan, knowing their reps before he did so.. and the proof is he wail against them back in 2000..then he seeks them out this go round...McCain has been reprimanded for his role in Keating 5..check ou the individuals in that too.. I guess I'm saying is when you're a politician, everyone is going to want to know you, and you're going to meet a lot of ppl....it's not like Obama grew up in Chicago and had a preconceived notion of these ppl.. When he met Renzo, he wasn't in any trouble.. and when he got on a board, Aryers was there. he hadn't been in the news in 40 years...why would he raise a flag to Obama, again, why aren't the republicans in Chicago making this a issue against Obama.. Obama's judgement has been sound.. He's never put anyone in jeapordy over over he's known..

shula_guy
10-02-2008, 02:41 PM
Then here's my question, what might Obama do based on knowing these ppl...and I'm sure he's not the only one who knows these ppl...Does not his associations with other ppl who aren't as recognized play just as a important role in his life?


He will do what all elected officals do. He will try to pull the country closer to his idealisms. The people he affilates himself with, gives an idication of what those idealisms are. He will not be able to shift the country too much because he will have to drag conservatives with him and they will go kicking and screaming. His creedo is change but in reality there is very little change that he can accomplish. Same goes for McCain if he gets elected. Look at Bush, he has been in office 8yrs and has accomplished very little. Clinton too. Society controls itsself, we are right where we put ourselves.

Does anyone truly believe white america would tolerate Obama trying to push through a black bias agenda? Conservative America will not allow him to push a socialist agenda either. The same holds true conversly too, Black America and liberal America will block coservative America from going too far right.

I believe change takes place in grass root america. If America was more critical of who they were electing to local offices we would have better canidates to choose from in the national elections. Our problem is we are generally complacent and lazy. We think someone else out there will do our leg work for us and tell us who the best person is to vote for. We are also under the missguided arrogant opinion, that we are always right and America will always prevail. We are all asleep at the wheel and we are paying the price for it.