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Nappy Roots
11-13-2008, 03:46 PM
What happens then? do you go to heaven due to ignorance? is this in the bible anywhere?

i have always wondered this....if a 5 year old dies and never accepts jesus in his life, does he go to hell because his parents didnt have him in church? or does he get a free pass?

LouPhinFan
11-13-2008, 04:34 PM
The term "age of accountability" is batted around in religious circles. It states that God has his own "age of accountablility" in mind in regards to us and when we actually become aware enough to make our own decision regarding following Jesus. Its very likely that this is not a fixed age but varies by person.

Tetragrammaton
11-13-2008, 05:33 PM
It can't be just age. What about a remote village in India? They have never heard of the Jesus.

Blackocrates
11-13-2008, 07:49 PM
To hell with them all. More room for the rest of us. :lol:

BobDole
12-01-2008, 05:28 PM
It can't be just age. What about a remote village in India? They have never heard of the Jesus.

if you haven't heard of him your not accountable but if you have you are.

Locke
12-01-2008, 05:46 PM
if you haven't heard of him your not accountable but if you have you are.

So someone who has never heard of Jesus gets a free pass to heaven?

BobDole
12-01-2008, 05:56 PM
So someone who has never heard of Jesus gets a free pass to heaven?

yup. asked that question once myself. it really only applies to remote tribes that have little to no contact with the outside world because christianity world wide. if you've never heard the word of God it's all gravy.

Locke
12-01-2008, 07:00 PM
yup. asked that question once myself. it really only applies to remote tribes that have little to no contact with the outside world because christianity world wide. if you've never heard the word of God it's all gravy.

Wow, thats pretty lame. Seems unfair that someone who is a good person in the US that makes a few mistakes could be condemned to hell, but a member of a warring tribe, possibly a murderer of members of his rival tribe, gets in on ignorance. Religion is fun..

Nappy Roots
12-01-2008, 07:46 PM
damn i wish i never heard of god then, i wouldnt have to worry about hell or wonder about religion and myself so much

BobDole
12-01-2008, 10:17 PM
Wow, thats pretty lame. Seems unfair that someone who is a good person in the US that makes a few mistakes could be condemned to hell, but a member of a warring tribe, possibly a murderer of members of his rival tribe, gets in on ignorance. Religion is fun..

i guess ignorance really is bliss.

Locke
12-02-2008, 02:01 AM
i guess ignorance really is bliss.

:lol:

Literally..

Miamian
12-02-2008, 04:24 AM
People, please. The OP set this out really as a question concerning Christianity, not all religions.

Dolphan7
12-02-2008, 12:18 PM
yup. asked that question once myself. it really only applies to remote tribes that have little to no contact with the outside world because christianity world wide. if you've never heard the word of God it's all gravy.That isn't necessarily true. I don't think anyone has a real clear idea how God will view those in remote areas of the world that have not heard of Jesus and been shown the Gospels. But I trust God will do the right thing. What we do know is what we read in Romans 1, that we are all without excuse becasue God has made himself evident to us through his creation. God has place in us a basic right and wrong. It is how each person responds to this aughtness of right and wrong that these people will be judged.

So a murdering and lying and stealing and greedy etc...tribesman who hasn't heard the word of God and Jesus doesn't get a free pass.

Dolphan7
12-02-2008, 12:41 PM
What happens then? do you go to heaven due to ignorance? is this in the bible anywhere?

i have always wondered this....if a 5 year old dies and never accepts jesus in his life, does he go to hell because his parents didnt have him in church? or does he get a free pass?A child who has not reached the age of accountability, and dies, enters heaven.

The age of accountability is based on our free will to choose God or reject God. At what age is a child able to make a clear and conscious decision, knowing the full consequences of their decision? It varies by individual. There isn't a set age. But we can expect that a twelve, thirteen or fourteen year old would be close to having the knowledge to make that decision rather than an infant. Although I have seen 8 year olds on fire for the Lord! There is a point in life that one knows and understands basic right from wrong, and the consequences of wrongful behavior. This is not to say that a five year old doesn't understand that if they disobey their mom, that dad will spank them when he gets home. What he doesn't understand is why that all has to happen. He doesn't understand why he can't simply do whatever he wants without consequence.

This is why the Catholic practice of infant baptism makes no sense. Salvation comes from acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Savior, belief in Him, repentance of our sins, and living right for God, not an act of baptism- especially with infants. What infant can make that determination? Makes no sense. This does not mean we shouldn't get baptized as an adult, when we finally do make that decision. We should.

Locke
12-02-2008, 01:08 PM
That isn't necessarily true. I don't think anyone has a real clear idea how God will view those in remote areas of the world that have not heard of Jesus and been shown the Gospels. But I trust God will do the right thing. What we do know is what we read in Romans 1, that we are all without excuse becasue God has made himself evident to us through his creation. God has place in us a basic right and wrong. It is how each person responds to this aughtness of right and wrong that these people will be judged.

So a murdering and lying and stealing and greedy etc...tribesman who hasn't heard the word of God and Jesus doesn't get a free pass.

OK, this makes much more sense. I would argue that these tribesmen aren't doing anything they feel is wrong though. Killing another man is forbidden by the bible as I understand. If they haven't been instilled with the notion that killing a rival is wrong, then they are going to accept it as a way of life . It gets pretty complicated I think.

On a side note D7, I've debated religion with a large amount of people. I'm not anti-religion or aethiest by any means. I'm an agnostic who was given a brain that needs hard proof. Anyways, I just have to say you present it in the most logical and convincing way of anyone I've met. Kudos my friend..

Dolphan7
12-02-2008, 01:57 PM
OK, this makes much more sense. I would argue that these tribesmen aren't doing anything they feel is wrong though. Killing another man is forbidden by the bible as I understand. If they haven't been instilled with the notion that killing a rival is wrong, then they are going to accept it as a way of life . It gets pretty complicated I think.

On a side note D7, I've debated religion with a large amount of people. I'm not anti-religion or aethiest by any means. I'm an agnostic who was given a brain that needs hard proof. Anyways, I just have to say you present it in the most logical and convincing way of anyone I've met. Kudos my friend..That is why I say that God will do what is right according to Him. We can't worry about how God will deal with those people in the rain forrest, we must worry about how he will deal with "us".



Thanks for the compliment. The bible really isn't that hard to understand. When you really look at Christianity, it really is very logical.

The problem people have isn't because they believe Christianity isn't true, it is that they refuse to give up their own belief system and replace it with the truth. And even further, this simple factoid prevents people from learning about Christianity because they refuse to accept that their belief system may just be wrong.

I know many who have come to realize that God, Jesus and the Bible are indeed true, and they reject it anyway.

Heck Jesus himself was asked to "give us a sign", and you know what they did? They killed him.

There is enough proof for Christianity for one to make a logical and intellectual decision for God, but it won't just arrive on ones doorstep. You have to go out and get it.

Jesus said "Ask and it will be given to you, Seek and you will find, Knock and it will be opened to you".

BobDole
12-02-2008, 05:51 PM
That isn't necessarily true. I don't think anyone has a real clear idea how God will view those in remote areas of the world that have not heard of Jesus and been shown the Gospels. But I trust God will do the right thing. What we do know is what we read in Romans 1, that we are all without excuse becasue God has made himself evident to us through his creation. God has place in us a basic right and wrong. It is how each person responds to this aughtness of right and wrong that these people will be judged.

So a murdering and lying and stealing and greedy etc...tribesman who hasn't heard the word of God and Jesus doesn't get a free pass.


that was what i thought too but i had that exact argument with very old and very christian people (grandparents and friends - name a scripture and they know book, verse, and line) a few years back and i was told differently. i wouldn't have interjected if not. they told me that one has to hear the word of God to be held accountable.

my argument was how could a warring polytheistic tribesman in some remote village get a free pass just because he had not been exposed to christianity - and their collective response was God did not hold it against you if you were unaware of his existence.

wish you were there for that argument.

and on a side note, i have a related question. what happened to the ancient people (aztecs, phoenicians, etc) that worshipped many gods because christianity was not yet an option? is it the same thing or was God offended that false gods were being prayed to?

Dolphan7
12-02-2008, 07:27 PM
that was what i thought too but i had that exact argument with very old and very christian people (grandparents and friends - name a scripture and they know book, verse, and line) a few years back and i was told differently. i wouldn't have interjected if not. they told me that one has to hear the word of God to be held accountable.

my argument was how could a warring polytheistic tribesman in some remote village get a free pass just because he had not been exposed to christianity - and their collective response was God did not hold it against you if you were unaware of his existence.

wish you were there for that argument.

and on a side note, i have a related question. what happened to the ancient people (aztecs, phoenicians, etc) that worshipped many gods because christianity was not yet an option? is it the same thing or was God offended that false gods were being prayed to?I think it is worth noting that there is a difference between knowing "God", and knowing "Jesus". These tribesmen will be held accountable for their knowledge of God, not knowing of or about Jesus. Whether they ever heard of Christ or Christianity doesn't matter because God has made himself evident to them in His Creation and has instilled a basic set of fundamental right and wrong values in all of us. It is this aughtness that tells them that "I wouldn't want someone to do to me what I am about to do to this other guy".


Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
RO 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
RO 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.As for the ancient religions of the world, God said "Thou shalt have no other God's before me". So yes he was offended.

FinFatale
12-03-2008, 10:33 AM
just a quick question why would GOD being GOD need MAN to pass his message to these tribesmen you speak of, just for an example, how do we know that GOD hasn't made his presence known to them Himself??????????? are we just assuming that GOD needs Man to introduce HIm???? Just curious.

Dolphan7
12-03-2008, 02:54 PM
just a quick question why would GOD being GOD need MAN to pass his message to these tribesmen you speak of, just for an example, how do we know that GOD hasn't made his presence known to them Himself??????????? are we just assuming that GOD needs Man to introduce HIm???? Just curious.I think that is what Paul was saying in Romans 1. God has made himself evident to all of us through his creation, so that we are without excuse. Does God need man to introduce himself - No. Does God use man to introduce himself through the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Yes!


RO 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
RO 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
RO 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Nappy Roots
12-03-2008, 05:30 PM
I think it is worth noting that there is a difference between knowing "God", and knowing "Jesus". These tribesmen will be held accountable for their knowledge of God, not knowing of or about Jesus. Whether they ever heard of Christ or Christianity doesn't matter because God has made himself evident to them in His Creation and has instilled a basic set of fundamental right and wrong values in all of us. It is this aughtness that tells them that "I wouldn't want someone to do to me what I am about to do to this other guy".

As for the ancient religions of the world, God said "Thou shalt have no other God's before me". So yes he was offended.


thanks a lot. that makes good sense.