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View Full Version : Trade Tom Brady??????



shula_guy
11-15-2008, 01:24 PM
I am so looking forward to all the knee jerk responses I get from this thread. Before you guys pound me to a bloody pulp with this, let it sink in.

First off, the 2007 patriots are not the same team they were one short year ago. Forget about Brady being out. The defensive side of their game has eroded and has gotten old. They need an injection of youth on the team. Brady himself is past his prime and is going to begin to decline as well. He is a 31 yr old QB with 9yrs in this leauge. I am not saying Brady dosnt have good play left in him, although you never know how he is going to return after this injury and what Tom Brady we will see on the field next year. Most would expect to see him make a good recovery and him back to excelent form, so his trade value would be high.

The question for this team is, do they believe cassle can be the future of this team. They are faced with this dilema at the end of this season. There is no way Cassle will be resigned if he is not garunteed a starter spot, another team will take him. N.E. must decide if this was a fluke season for him or if he is the real deal or even if he is the real thing, do they want to risk drafting another QB to groom to replace Brady in about 4yrs.

If cassle can hold down the fort and you can remain competive without Brady, do you take the draft picks? Begin finding youth to start replacing your veteran talents thet are retiring and slowing down? Do you take the heat from the fans and start infusing youth into your aging team.

If they dont resign Cassle, because his contract ends this year, he will be snatched up by someone and new england will have gained nothing from it and be without a B/U QB.

djfresh47
11-15-2008, 01:54 PM
Yes Tom Brady is past his prime judged by what he did last season. They're not the same team they were last year mainly because Brady's not at Qb, IMO. Matt Cassel has gotten better but really? When Marino tore his achilles and Mitchell had a few so-so games I didn't think it was a consideration to trade him.

They drafted O'Connel in the 4th rd I think last season. I'm sure they'd love to keep Cassel as a backup. Dumping a player I still believe in his prime because Cassel's played alright is ridiculous, IMO. I don't doubt Belicheck will bring in guys to fill holes.

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 02:05 PM
Yes Tom Brady is past his prime judged by what he did last season. They're not the same team they were last year mainly because Brady's not at Qb, IMO. Matt Cassel has gotten better but really? When Marino tore his achilles and Mitchell had a few so-so games I didn't think it was a consideration to trade him.

They drafted O'Connel in the 4th rd I think last season. I'm sure they'd love to keep Cassel as a backup. Dumping a player I still believe in his prime because Cassel's played alright is ridiculous, IMO. I don't doubt Belicheck will bring in guys to fill holes.

I hear what your saying and dont really see them trading away Brady, but it might be the best move if they did. I think Schaub is a better example then mitchel in this situation. Atlanta looks like they made out well getting Ryan in the draft but if they would not of traded away schaub I think they would of been ok and could of drafted for other needs.

There is a few problems here. They all boil down to the unknown's
1. How good is Cassle?
2. How healthy will Brady be when he is done rehabbing?
3. How long is the rehab going to take?

KlausC
11-15-2008, 02:09 PM
I think they'd be smart to keep Cassel around next season, but it's probably premature to get rid of Brady. That knee is a big question mark right now, but if he's healthy you don't get rid of him.

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 02:13 PM
I think they'd be smart to keep Cassel around next season, but it's probably premature to get rid of Brady. That knee is a big question mark right now, but if he's healthy you don't get rid of him.

The problem for the Pats is he enters free agency after this season and will almost assuredly be offered a starter postion and starter money by someone else in this leauge. If you are the Pats do you really want to offer an insurance policy player top money? And if your Cassle, even if the Pats did make a competive offer wouldnt you want to go somewhere you would be named the starter instead of sitting behind brady?

KlausC
11-15-2008, 02:20 PM
The problem for the Pats is he enters free agency after this season and will almost assuredly be offered a starter postion and starter money by someone else in this leauge. If you are the Pats do you really want to offer an insurance policy player top money? And if your Cassle, even if the Pats did make a competive offer wouldnt you want to go somewhere you would be named the starter instead of sitting behind brady?

If it were my decision it's an easy answer. Yes, you pay him top money for one year to make sure Brady is back to being Brady. For one year you have an expensive insurance policy. I would consider franchising him.

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 02:38 PM
If it were my decision it's an easy answer. Yes, you pay him top money for one year to make sure Brady is back to being Brady. For one year you have an expensive insurance policy. I would consider franchising him.

If they can franchise him that is definitly an intresting option.

djfresh47
11-15-2008, 02:54 PM
I hear what your saying and dont really see them trading away Brady, but it might be the best move if they did. I think Schaub is a better example then mitchel in this situation. Atlanta looks like they made out well getting Ryan in the draft but if they would not of traded away schaub I think they would of been ok and could of drafted for other needs.

There is a few problems here. They all boil down to the unknown's
1. How good is Cassle?
2. How healthy will Brady be when he is done rehabbing?
3. How long is the rehab going to take?

Schaub had great preseasons in Atlanta. I think he compares to what Hasselbeck did in GB before being traded to Seattle. I see the Schaub trade differently. They had their guy in Vick. Then Vick got caught fighting dogs. I've yet to see much in Schaub except that he's injury prone.

I think Brady will be ready for the start of next year. I compare his situation to McNabb's and Carson Palmer's when they got hurt. He's a drastically better player than either of those two IMO. Peyton Manning looked awful at the start of this year as did the Colts offense because their timing was off due to Manning missing time. I think the Pats would like to re-sign Cassel. Who also stated he'd go back as a backup for a good deal. The Patriots could overpay Cassel then try to deal him after next offseason. That's never really been their way of doing things though. I think they'll let Cassel walk.

If their OC gets a job I think that opens the door for Cassel to follow him.

emeraldfin
11-15-2008, 03:21 PM
This situation is pretty similar to what the Pats went through around 7/8 years ago with Brady and Bledsoe.

#1dolphinsfan
11-15-2008, 03:53 PM
if they get rid of brady they are stupid

djfresh47
11-15-2008, 04:41 PM
This situation is pretty similar to what the Pats went through around 7/8 years ago with Brady and Bledsoe.

Bledsoe was never the player Brady is.

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Schaub had great preseasons in Atlanta. I think he compares to what Hasselbeck did in GB before being traded to Seattle. I see the Schaub trade differently. They had their guy in Vick. Then Vick got caught fighting dogs. I've yet to see much in Schaub except that he's injury prone.

I think Brady will be ready for the start of next year. I compare his situation to McNabb's and Carson Palmer's when they got hurt. He's a drastically better player than either of those two IMO. Peyton Manning looked awful at the start of this year as did the Colts offense because their timing was off due to Manning missing time. I think the Pats would like to re-sign Cassel. Who also stated he'd go back as a backup for a good deal. The Patriots could overpay Cassel then try to deal him after next offseason. That's never really been their way of doing things though. I think they'll let Cassel walk.

If their OC gets a job I think that opens the door for Cassel to follow him.


You make a good point about if they lose their OC, if he lands on a team in need of a QB.

I am not aware of Cassle saying that he would be content sitting on the bench behind Brady if he was offered a starter postion somewhere else. If that is the context that statement was made in, I would have serious concerns about him making it as a starter anywhere he goes or stays at.

As far as it being the Patriots way of doing buiness. I agree that owners need to be delicate on how they handle players contracts. No players are going to be easily signed or negotiated with if they feel an organaztion has a reputation for playing hardball tactics at a players expense. I think the general attitudes of the fan base have to be accounted for as well.

Let me state it like this:

Given between two choices the first being a Tom Brady lead team struggling to get into the post season and not really making of a splash once getting in there or a Cassle lead offense that continues to keep the Patriots competive deep into the post season, I think the fans would prefer the latter of the two.

If you believe the Patriots have enough resources without trading Brady to remain a dominant force in the nfl then fine keep him, but if you think they need extra help because of aging talent at various postions to remain dominant, then I think you have to consider making that tough decission of getting some value out of a brady Trade not to mention opening up some more cap space.

Look at the 49er's when they got rid of Montanna, Young was not exactly welcomly recieved but in the end he did bring them rings. I'm not saying Cassel is a better QB then Brady, but Brady is not winning games by himself. He is very good at his role but he is a role player in a system and if that system can keep enough talent in enough of the roles then they can continue to dominate for years to come depending on who they pick up with the extra picks they get.

If Cassel is a one hit wonder then obviously it would be a huge mistake to let brady go but if he turns out to be the real deal. It good be a smart decission that will leave them secure at the qb for another decade.

Bottom line, regardless of what Cassel has said in the past if he continues to light up the score board he will be a starter next season on some team, somewhere.

chris66
11-15-2008, 05:16 PM
He is a restricted free agent and you can always use the transition tag. which allows you to match the offer and if you dont you get the teams first and third pick.

emeraldfin
11-15-2008, 05:29 PM
Bledsoe was never the player Brady is.

Patriots did'nt know that back then, that Brady would be as good as he turned out to be.

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 05:38 PM
He is a restricted free agent and you can always use the transition tag. which allows you to match the offer and if you dont you get the teams first and third pick.


Oh TY that is a usefull piece of information I did not know. I thought he was ufa. I would defintly be tempted to tag with a first and a third, with the full understanding that in all likelyhood someone will pay that for him.
I think they could get and would get that for him off a team in desperate need at the QB postion.

#1dolphinsfan
11-15-2008, 06:15 PM
He is a restricted free agent and you can always use the transition tag. which allows you to match the offer and if you dont you get the teams first and third pick.
well if the pats do that then you guys will keep him i dont think any team in the NFL is stupid enough to give up a First and Third round pick for Cassell

chris66
11-15-2008, 06:37 PM
well if the pats do that then you guys will keep him i dont think any team in the NFL is stupid enough to give up a First and Third round pick for Cassell

exactly, and if the team offers what he is really worth. pats should have no problem matching, or if the other team throws out a huge amont of money , the pats get the picks it is really a win win for the pats. they either keep him at a reasonable price or get picks

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 07:22 PM
exactly, and if the team offers what he is really worth. pats should have no problem matching, or if the other team throws out a huge amont of money , the pats get the picks it is really a win win for the pats. they either keep him at a reasonable price or get picks


How much do you think he is worth? How much would you tender him for?

djfresh47
11-15-2008, 07:30 PM
You make a good point about if they lose their OC, if he lands on a team in need of a QB.

I am not aware of Cassle saying that he would be content sitting on the bench behind Brady if he was offered a starter postion somewhere else. If that is the context that statement was made in, I would have serious concerns about him making it as a starter anywhere he goes or stays at.

As far as it being the Patriots way of doing buiness. I agree that owners need to be delicate on how they handle players contracts. No players are going to be easily signed or negotiated with if they feel an organaztion has a reputation for playing hardball tactics at a players expense. I think the general attitudes of the fan base have to be accounted for as well.

Let me state it like this:

Given between two choices the first being a Tom Brady lead team struggling to get into the post season and not really making of a splash once getting in there or a Cassle lead offense that continues to keep the Patriots competive deep into the post season, I think the fans would prefer the latter of the two.

If you believe the Patriots have enough resources without trading Brady to remain a dominant force in the nfl then fine keep him, but if you think they need extra help because of aging talent at various postions to remain dominant, then I think you have to consider making that tough decission of getting some value out of a brady Trade not to mention opening up some more cap space.

Look at the 49er's when they got rid of Montanna, Young was not exactly welcomly recieved but in the end he did bring them rings. I'm not saying Cassel is a better QB then Brady, but Brady is not winning games by himself. He is very good at his role but he is a role player in a system and if that system can keep enough talent in enough of the roles then they can continue to dominate for years to come depending on who they pick up with the extra picks they get.

If Cassel is a one hit wonder then obviously it would be a huge mistake to let brady go but if he turns out to be the real deal. It good be a smart decission that will leave them secure at the qb for another decade.

Bottom line, regardless of what Cassel has said in the past if he continues to light up the score board he will be a starter next season on some team, somewhere.

I don't recall the Patriots struggling to make the playoffs with Brady since the year after their 1st SB victory. The NFL is a win now league. The Patriots are nowhere near the offense they were with Brady. Cassel's good but he's not Brady. If Belicheck is dumb enough to trade him sign the Dolphins up for him. I'll take 5 years with a 1st ballot HOF Qb who could retire as the best ever. Look at the Jets with Favre they basically gave up on their future Qb in Clemens to win now.

djfresh47
11-15-2008, 07:32 PM
Patriots did'nt know that back then, that Brady would be as good as he turned out to be.

Yes and he's coming off his best season and maybe the best season of any Qb. He got hurt. Bledsoe was not the caliber of player that Brady is at the time of injury.

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 07:50 PM
I don't recall the Patriots struggling to make the playoffs with Brady since the year after their 1st SB victory. The NFL is a win now league. The Patriots are nowhere near the offense they were with Brady. Cassel's good but he's not Brady. If Belicheck is dumb enough to trade him sign the Dolphins up for him. I'll take 5 years with a 1st ballot HOF Qb who could retire as the best ever. Look at the Jets with Favre they basically gave up on their future Qb in Clemens to win now.

Im not going to argue that if Brady had not gone down that they would not have a better record then they have right now. I will however submit to you that it took Cassle a few weeks to find his "sea legs". Now that he has gotten comfortable in his role, he has been playing good football. What I was unaware of when I created this thread was that Cassel would be a RFA at the end of the season. That greatly changes the dynamics of the situation. If I was faced to give Cassel away and get nothing in return as opposed to trading Brady and getting good draft picks, I might be tempted to go with the trade. Im not saying hands down, without a second thought I would trade a HOF QB away, but I would consider it and entertain offers from other teams. What if someone offered you what they offered Dallas for hershle Walker for Brady, you would'nt pull the trigger on that trade?

shula_guy
11-15-2008, 07:52 PM
Also I dont think it's fair at all to put the Patriots struggles squarely on cassel's shoulders.

djfresh47
11-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Im not going to argue that if Brady had not gone down that they would not have a better record then they have right now. I will however submit to you that it took Cassle a few weeks to find his "sea legs". Now that he has gotten comfortable in his role, he has been playing good football. What I was unaware of when I created this thread was that Cassel would be a RFA at the end of the season. That greatly changes the dynamics of the situation. If I was faced to give Cassel away and get nothing in return as opposed to trading Brady and getting good draft picks, I might be tempted to go with the trade. Im not saying hands down, without a second thought I would trade a HOF QB away, but I would consider it and entertain offers from other teams. What if someone offered you what they offered Dallas for hershle Walker for Brady, you would'nt pull the trigger on that trade?

I don't think that's going to happen. I might not take that offer either. The NFL is a win now league. Be a SB contender with Brady or stay afloat and be a playoff contender with Cassel.

MR NFLFAN
11-17-2008, 09:28 AM
Also I dont think it's fair at all to put the Patriots struggles squarely on cassel's shoulders.


NE started out the season with a banged up offensive line. Neil began the season on PUP but since his return there has clearly been a big difference in protection for Cassel. I believe his absence caused the Pats to shuffle their normal line play to help out Yates. Most of the game thursday night he had a rediculous amount of time in the pocket.
At this point with Brady I think its too early to make a call as to next season. The Pats will have a better idea as to him being ready next season once he's off the antibiotics and the Dr's get a chance to see how the knee responded. I have no doubt in my mind if the infection does not reoccur he'll be ready to play next season.

satz
11-17-2008, 10:40 AM
He is a UFA not RFA . that info is wrong .He was drafted in 06 and has played for 3 yrs which is the maxium length of a 7 th round pick.

He cannot be franchised as NFLPA has a clause which is that one cannot be tagged if their is no intention of keeping the player. Usually , if they are going to tag a player they atleast make it look like a signing is coming [jarad allen].

Kevin connell is a 3rd rd pick and he has 1 yr to learn the playbook and 1 offseason to get ready for next year . if brady is not 100% by preseason he will be the QB till brady takes over.

Its one of the bad things as people look at numbers too much. nfl and espn compare brady to casell number and never mention brady had david patten,troy brown, wiggins at TE ,a patched up OL and antown smith at RB who rushed for 700 yds for that season . yet brady has twice the TD then casell. caseel has wes , randy moss , a rb NFL record backfield has 4 different players have rushed for more than 100 yds in a single season .3 Probowl OL , watson is leagues ahead of wiggins

SpurzN703
11-17-2008, 12:46 PM
The NFL is so weird that this might even seem plausible. Who would've thought?

Tailgater
11-18-2008, 02:50 PM
satz is correct. Cassel is an UFA.

I expect they will tag & trade him, unless they had doubts about Brady. He's already back in Foxboro beginning his rehab. I don't expect that to be an issue.

Brady will be 32 next year. Barring setbacks from his knee, he'll be at the top of his game for at least another 3 or 4 years. I'm more worried about him retiring than that he's peaked.

To franchise Cassel, the pats will need about 12M in cap space. Trade him before the draft to a QB hungry team. Worst case is they let him go out on his own. They'd still get a 3rd rd comp pick the following year.

FYI, with one more draft class, the pats will be set for awhile. OL & DL avg about 28yrs old, the LB squad got a youth injection with Mayo, Guyton & Woods. The rooks in the secondary need to produce next year. If not, thats the only place they need to get younger. The jury remains out on Wheatly & Wilhite.

djfresh47
11-19-2008, 06:17 PM
satz is correct. Cassel is an UFA.

I expect they will tag & trade him, unless they had doubts about Brady. He's already back in Foxboro beginning his rehab. I don't expect that to be an issue.

Brady will be 32 next year. Barring setbacks from his knee, he'll be at the top of his game for at least another 3 or 4 years. I'm more worried about him retiring than that he's peaked.

To franchise Cassel, the pats will need about 12M in cap space. Trade him before the draft to a QB hungry team. Worst case is they let him go out on his own. They'd still get a 3rd rd comp pick the following year.

FYI, with one more draft class, the pats will be set for awhile. OL & DL avg about 28yrs old, the LB squad got a youth injection with Mayo, Guyton & Woods. The rooks in the secondary need to produce next year. If not, thats the only place they need to get younger. The jury remains out on Wheatly & Wilhite.

I think they're going to let him walk and it's the right move.