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gdiaz0358
12-12-2008, 04:34 PM
just wondering if anyone heard that brady's carerr is over? a buddy of mine called me SCREAMING that he heard on radio that brady's knee is DONE!! ahhh that is such good news for the phins,....sorry i know it sucks and its messed of me but this is great news!!! :sidelol::woot::up::hi5:

heres the link....http://thisis50.com/
on the front PAGE!!!!

arcane1229
12-12-2008, 04:37 PM
Its not great news, if Brady is out for good it is not a good thing for football. This guy could be one of the best ever. I am a Dolfan and always will be and what not better than to beat a Brady lead team in the conference finals. Hope its not true.

MarinePhinFan
12-12-2008, 04:38 PM
It's a rumor that the Patriots deny 100%.

And I wouldn't be happy if he was finished. Injury is not the way to end a career. For anybody.

jtrules99
12-12-2008, 04:39 PM
i read that the report was completely faulse and that brady is doing rlly well in rehab and is on track for the begging of the 09 season. and also i agree its not good at all if brady is done anyway because i want to beat the patriots with him in there, itd be that much sweeter.

Nappy Roots
12-12-2008, 04:41 PM
complete lie...thank god.

gdiaz0358
12-12-2008, 04:43 PM
ya....i guess you guys are right...i dunno man its been a tough couple of seasons so anything to help the phins will cheer me up...i mean i know we are doing good now, but im kinda worried the same thing that happened to the browns will happen to us....now they are playing good teams and they are getting killed. we are playing really easy teams this yr and are doing ok....well anyway i do take it back he does deserve to go down in history as the best QB of all time, but ur right it would be sweet to sweep them next yr with him in there.

MarinePhinFan
12-12-2008, 04:47 PM
I have to add one more thing. Brady is no where near the greatest of all time. He has played on some of the greatest teams ever and he has been the QB for one of the greatest dynasties ever, but so was Bradshaw.

Brady, seriously, is a little above average.

R_t_Kraken
12-12-2008, 04:48 PM
Unlike the rest of you 'morally correct' gentlemen. I could care less if he recovers -- not because i'm worried about playing him but because the cheating ******* doesn't deserve to play in the league any more than belicheat deserves to coach in it. In other words F Brady, and anyone bemoaning the poor little b*tches injury.

dolpns13
12-12-2008, 04:51 PM
Unlike the rest of you 'morally correct' gentlemen. I could care less if he recovers -- not because i'm worried about playing him but because the cheating ******* doesn't deserve to play in the league any more than belicheat deserves to coach in it. In other words F Brady, and anyone bemoaning the poor little b*tches injury.

I agree, Im not wishing personal harm on anyone, but if his career is over, I could really give 2 ****s.

dolfan_germany
12-12-2008, 04:52 PM
that report does not seem very reliable :D Brady is doing fine in his rehab.. he had some setbacks (infection) but now he is back on track.. I am anxious to see how he will perform next year and how he will perform against our Dolphins :)

Nappy Roots
12-12-2008, 04:59 PM
I have to add one more thing. Brady is no where near the greatest of all time. He has played on some of the greatest teams ever and he has been the QB for one of the greatest dynasties ever, but so was Bradshaw.

Brady, seriously, is a little above average.


your out of your damn mind...:rolleyes2:

cyesae
12-12-2008, 05:05 PM
bs he wont be the same when he left off but he has a couple good seasons left in him

NC Fins Fan
12-12-2008, 05:10 PM
i read that the report was completely faulse and that brady is doing rlly well in rehab and is on track for the begging of the 09 season. and also i agree its not good at all if brady is done anyway because i want to beat the patriots with him in there, itd be that much sweeter.

Problem is, if Brady comes back next season and we sweep the season series the Pats fans and the media will pull the "Brady isn't 100%" card.

Dolphins7273
12-12-2008, 05:11 PM
I couldn't care less if his career is over or not. At the end of the day, he's still a multi-millionaire who gets to bang a supermodel.

X-Pacolypse
12-12-2008, 05:12 PM
If Brady's career ends prematurely, don't expect me to shed a tear over it. Granted, the NFL overall will take a hit from Brady's loss, but time goes on.

ADavieDolphin
12-12-2008, 05:12 PM
that site is not very credible looking...
brady will be back, i dont think he'll be healthy enough to start week 1, but you never know...
I'd imagine they let Cassel get paid elsewhere, sign a veteran... and brady comes back in like week 6..

i hope he can come back and be somewhat competitive, but i'd rather him look terrible and get a 2 win season...

Phins Rock
12-12-2008, 05:16 PM
I live about a half hour away from Foxboro...

Brady is not done. He is ahead of schedule in his rehab, and they expect to know where he is at by May (as in if he can go in 09' or not).

He'll be fine. It is 100% false rumor.

Bumpus
12-12-2008, 05:30 PM
F Brady. I hope his leg falls off.

Sofa_King_Drunk
12-12-2008, 05:36 PM
I don't see how he won't be ready. Ronnie got hurt a lot later in the year last year and he was good to go this year. No need to hate on the guy, he's demonstrated he's one of the best of all time. No way we'd be sniffing a division title this year if he's still upright.

Mr772
12-12-2008, 05:37 PM
It can happen to the best of them, Bo Jackson comes to mind.

Each year medical advancements improve but some injuries just can't be fixed well enough to withstand the punishment of the NFL.

I belive brady and Billicheat are both vastly overrated.

MarinePhinFan
12-12-2008, 05:53 PM
your out of your damn mind...:rolleyes2:


Not really. Brady has not been able to lead anything without a top 5 ranked defense. Brady is an average QB with above average smarts and work ethic who has played on great teams. He holds one record, a record he got when playing for possibly the greatest offense ever with possibly the greatest WR ever. And he beat the record by 1.

Brady has been voted All-Pro ONCE. And All-pro isn't the popularity contest that the Pro-Bowl is. All-Pro means that EXPERTS choose you as being the best in the league at your position.

Marino has 8
Unitas has 9
Montana has 6
Favre has 7

Now, I'm sure you're going to throw up the "3 Rings". Teams win Super Bowls, not individuals. If you think Brady is great because of rings then Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson, Rypien and Williams are better than Marino because they have a ring and Marino does not. :err:

Hell, the Patriots shouldn't even have been in the SB last year after Brady's play in the AFC Championship Game. His defense, once again bailed him out.

And then you have his coaches. Belichick, love him or hate him he is great. Do you realize that not even Joe Montana's 49ers could ever beat a belichick coached defense? Not once. Look it up.


Did you also know that Brady and Cassel both throw the ball 0-10yrds down the field as the same %? And that % is around 60%. Brady dinks and dunks his entire career. He then gets Moss and just wings it up in the air and lets Moss out jump all the shorter DB's. Go to youtube and search "Brady's 50 TD's" It will show all of them. And a lot were garbage throws made possible by his WR's. Welker included.

I could go on and on about why I think Brady is pretty average, but just do some research before you start calling others crazy.

JT-forpresident
12-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Unlike the rest of you 'morally correct' gentlemen. I could care less if he recovers -- not because i'm worried about playing him but because the cheating ******* doesn't deserve to play in the league any more than belicheat deserves to coach in it. In other words F Brady, and anyone bemoaning the poor little b*tches injury.

that's a rude way to put it out... :lol:

phinman1
12-12-2008, 06:35 PM
If he is done, I'll be about as torn up about it as Patsie fans would've been if it had happened to Marino.

MiggeMadness
12-12-2008, 06:50 PM
I have to add one more thing. Brady is no where near the greatest of all time. He has played on some of the greatest teams ever and he has been the QB for one of the greatest dynasties ever, but so was Bradshaw.

Brady, seriously, is a little above average.

Yep. Cassel looks pretty damn good right now too. He looks better than over half the other starting QBs in the league.

Do you seriously think that a guy that has started since high school is better than all those QBs?? Doubt it. Brady was lucky enough to have a FO that put a great team around him, not just a good team.

If Cassel.....MATT F-ING CASSEL can put up the numbers he has been with that offense, what do you think Marino could have done with it? I bet it's a hell of a lot better than Tom Brady.....

houtz
12-12-2008, 06:53 PM
I'd rather take over the AFC East with a healthy Tom Brady then with Matt "I'm inconsistent" Cassel.

Roman529
12-12-2008, 06:54 PM
I think the report is total BS!!! I don't mind us winning AFC East title's if he is not able to play anymore, but it feels better beating the Patsies when Brady is playing for them so we don't hear any excuses.

sharp
12-12-2008, 07:01 PM
If this were to be true brady would be almost like a one hit wonder. Came in, made his mark, cheated, and left. It is very rare that one cannot come back from an injury like his but if he doesn't I guess karma took its toll.

Elliott 1
12-12-2008, 07:08 PM
That particular infection that he had was not mild.

That infection is an especially virulent one and has destroyed many a joint but unless something was covered up, it was reported that he recovered from it and was fine.

But nobody should underestimate the potential of that infection to do damage.

dolfan305
12-12-2008, 07:24 PM
bradys a b itch

Greatness920
12-12-2008, 10:38 PM
brady is not one of the best of all time i agree with that statement

MarinePhinFan
12-13-2008, 12:08 AM
I'd rather take over the AFC East with a healthy Tom Brady then with Matt "I'm inconsistent" Cassel.


You realize that Cassel is putting up comparable numbers that Brady did during his 1st season, right? The Patriots team and coaches could make Ryan Leaf look great. Period.

Valandui
12-13-2008, 12:58 AM
I couldn't care less if his career is over or not. At the end of the day, he's still a multi-millionaire who gets to bang a supermodel.
I know. On top of that, he got one pregnant, dumped her, and then started dating Giselle.

djfresh47
12-13-2008, 02:34 AM
Not really. Brady has not been able to lead anything without a top 5 ranked defense. Brady is an average QB with above average smarts and work ethic who has played on great teams. He holds one record, a record he got when playing for possibly the greatest offense ever with possibly the greatest WR ever. And he beat the record by 1.

Brady has been voted All-Pro ONCE. And All-pro isn't the popularity contest that the Pro-Bowl is. All-Pro means that EXPERTS choose you as being the best in the league at your position.

Marino has 8
Unitas has 9
Montana has 6
Favre has 7

Now, I'm sure you're going to throw up the "3 Rings". Teams win Super Bowls, not individuals. If you think Brady is great because of rings then Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson, Rypien and Williams are better than Marino because they have a ring and Marino does not. :err:

Hell, the Patriots shouldn't even have been in the SB last year after Brady's play in the AFC Championship Game. His defense, once again bailed him out.

And then you have his coaches. Belichick, love him or hate him he is great. Do you realize that not even Joe Montana's 49ers could ever beat a belichick coached defense? Not once. Look it up.


Did you also know that Brady and Cassel both throw the ball 0-10yrds down the field as the same %? And that % is around 60%. Brady dinks and dunks his entire career. He then gets Moss and just wings it up in the air and lets Moss out jump all the shorter DB's. Go to youtube and search "Brady's 50 TD's" It will show all of them. And a lot were garbage throws made possible by his WR's. Welker included.

I could go on and on about why I think Brady is pretty average, but just do some research before you start calling others crazy.

If Brady is average than every Qb in the NFL aside from Peyton Manning is terrible. While Peyton also is simply average. It's funny that Moss wasn't putting up the numbers in Oakland. Welker wasn't putting up the numbers with Miami. Hostleter, Dilfer, Rypien didn't do it over a prolonged period.

Brady is a 1st ballot HOF Qb who'll be thought of as one of the best ever when he retires. If he's average then Chad Pennington belongs in Arena League 2.

jtoomuch
12-13-2008, 11:01 AM
I couldn't care less if his career is over or not. At the end of the day, he's still a multi-millionaire who gets to bang a supermodel.



VERY good point.

Tailgater
12-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Not really. Brady has not been able to lead anything without a top 5 ranked defense. Brady is an average QB with above average smarts and work ethic who has played on great teams. He holds one record, a record he got when playing for possibly the greatest offense ever with possibly the greatest WR ever. And he beat the record by 1.

Brady has been voted All-Pro ONCE. And All-pro isn't the popularity contest that the Pro-Bowl is. All-Pro means that EXPERTS choose you as being the best in the league at your position.

Marino has 8
Unitas has 9
Montana has 6
Favre has 7

Now, I'm sure you're going to throw up the "3 Rings". Teams win Super Bowls, not individuals. If you think Brady is great because of rings then Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson, Rypien and Williams are better than Marino because they have a ring and Marino does not. :err:

Hell, the Patriots shouldn't even have been in the SB last year after Brady's play in the AFC Championship Game. His defense, once again bailed him out.

And then you have his coaches. Belichick, love him or hate him he is great. Do you realize that not even Joe Montana's 49ers could ever beat a belichick coached defense? Not once. Look it up.


Did you also know that Brady and Cassel both throw the ball 0-10yrds down the field as the same %? And that % is around 60%. Brady dinks and dunks his entire career. He then gets Moss and just wings it up in the air and lets Moss out jump all the shorter DB's. Go to youtube and search "Brady's 50 TD's" It will show all of them. And a lot were garbage throws made possible by his WR's. Welker included.

I could go on and on about why I think Brady is pretty average, but just do some research before you start calling others crazy.

Using your logic, you should leave Montana out of the picture too. Talk about a guy who lived for short passes! He had a huge advantage in being at the forefront of a revolutionary offensive scheme (WCO) that nobody could defend against, coached by one of the offensive greats (Walsh), and having the best wr of all time.

The 'EXPERTS" all say Brady is one of the best, if not the best, of all time. I guess those experts are different from you're experts? Who is it who picks all-pros? isn't it the players? The same players that Brady bested, year after year? I'm sure personal feelings don't come into it. Like the Steelers would put aside the whoopings they've suffered in Bradys tenure? Yeah, right.

FYI, the Pats defense was far from top five in 2001, 2007. Last year he beat mannings record (achieved with Wayne, Harrision, James on his team). I guess manning shouldn't get credit for that? In your mind, Brady doesn't. In '01, Brady had Brown, Patten and freakin Wiggins at TE, yet still did enough to win a championship.

Farve, marino, Montana - all say Brady is one of the best all time. I'll take their word over any 'expert'.

SpaceMountain16
12-13-2008, 12:43 PM
If Brady is average than every Qb in the NFL aside from Peyton Manning is terrible. While Peyton also is simply average. It's funny that Moss wasn't putting up the numbers in Oakland. Welker wasn't putting up the numbers with Miami. Hostleter, Dilfer, Rypien didn't do it over a prolonged period.

Brady is a 1st ballot HOF Qb who'll be thought of as one of the best ever when he retires. If he's average then Chad Pennington belongs in Arena League 2.

100% agree

MarinePhinFan
12-13-2008, 04:32 PM
If Brady is average than every Qb in the NFL aside from Peyton Manning is terrible. While Peyton also is simply average. It's funny that Moss wasn't putting up the numbers in Oakland. Welker wasn't putting up the numbers with Miami. Hostleter, Dilfer, Rypien didn't do it over a prolonged period.

Brady is a 1st ballot HOF Qb who'll be thought of as one of the best ever when he retires. If he's average then Chad Pennington belongs in Arena League 2.

I post objective stats and you post subjective drivel. Moss, with Culpepper I might add, has put up gawdy numbers his entire career except when he quit in Oakland. Culpepper has done nothing since. So was it Moss making Culpepper look like an All-Pro or Culpepper making Moss look like an All-Pro?

Griese, Bradshaw, Namath and Aikmen are all HOF QB's. None are great and Namath was just plain horrible.

Once more, Brady has played for some of the greatest teams in NFL history and one of the greatest Dynasties. And like Bradshaw, Griese and Aikmen were in their time, he is called "great" by the media. When he retires, without doing anything else from here on out I might add, he will be remembered by non-Patriot fans as a pretty good QB who played on great teams just like those other QB's I have mentioned. Not the GOAT or even close to it...

MarinePhinFan
12-13-2008, 04:51 PM
Using your logic, you should leave Montana out of the picture too. Talk about a guy who lived for short passes! He had a huge advantage in being at the forefront of a revolutionary offensive scheme (WCO) that nobody could defend against, coached by one of the offensive greats (Walsh), and having the best wr of all time.

The 'EXPERTS" all say Brady is one of the best, if not the best, of all time. I guess those experts are different from you're experts? Who is it who picks all-pros? isn't it the players? The same players that Brady bested, year after year? I'm sure personal feelings don't come into it. Like the Steelers would put aside the whoopings they've suffered in Bradys tenure? Yeah, right.

FYI, the Pats defense was far from top five in 2001, 2007. Last year he beat mannings record (achieved with Wayne, Harrision, James on his team). I guess manning shouldn't get credit for that? In your mind, Brady doesn't. In '01, Brady had Brown, Patten and freakin Wiggins at TE, yet still did enough to win a championship.

Farve, marino, Montana - all say Brady is one of the best all time. I'll take their word over any 'expert'.


The Patriots defense was ranked 5th in 2001 and 4th in 2007. All of the Patriots Super Bowl wins came at the hand of defenses ranked 5th, 1st and 2nd in points scored. Jeez, you'd think you would know about your own team if you're going to talk about them on a Dolphins forum. :rolleyes2:


Not really. Montana could make ALL the throws that Brady can't. Brady is smart and the Montana comparison's end there. Of course Brady has made some great throws, but the true greats make those throws consistently.

The players do not vote for All-Pro's. Football experts do. And those unbiased experts have only picked Brady once, after he got Moss as a WR.

Brady has three rings because of a great defense and a great kicker. :lol:

When Brady doesn't have a top 5 defense he doesn't win. Hell, when his defense failed him last season he couldn't win the Super Bowl with possibly the greatest offense ever. However, his defense bailed him out of a 3 INT and 60 QBR in the AFC Championship game.

There have been two QB's who have won a Super Bowl without a top 15 defense, Johnny U. and P. Manning. Two of the greatest to ever play the game.

McMahon and Dilfer, poor QB's, won Super Bowls too with two of the best defenses to ever play. Just like Brady.

djfresh47
12-13-2008, 05:55 PM
I post objective stats and you post subjective drivel. Moss, with Culpepper I might add, has put up gawdy numbers his entire career except when he quit in Oakland. Culpepper has done nothing since. So was it Moss making Culpepper look like an All-Pro or Culpepper making Moss look like an All-Pro?

Griese, Bradshaw, Namath and Aikmen are all HOF QB's. None are great and Namath was just plain horrible.

Once more, Brady has played for some of the greatest teams in NFL history and one of the greatest Dynasties. And like Bradshaw, Griese and Aikmen were in their time, he is called "great" by the media. When he retires, without doing anything else from here on out I might add, he will be remembered by non-Patriot fans as a pretty good QB who played on great teams just like those other QB's I have mentioned. Not the GOAT or even close to it...

Actually I think most would acknowledge that Brady is one of the best ever.

MarinePhinFan
12-13-2008, 06:30 PM
Actually I think most would acknowledge that Brady is one of the best ever.


Back in the 1970's Bradshaw and Griese were thought to be "great". Were they? No. Tough? Yes. Smart? Griese was. Average? Yep.

In the 1990's Aikman was called "great" and some even said maybe the GOAT. Now what do those people say? They say he is average and played on some great teams.

The hype will die down about Brady just like it has with these others in a few years. The way it did with Warner being called "Marino-like" and "great".

Graham, Unitas, Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana, Starr, Baugh and a few others are timeless and will always be called all-time greats. Brady won't...

djfresh47
12-13-2008, 06:38 PM
Back in the 1970's Bradshaw and Griese were thought to be "great". Were they? No. Tough? Yes. Smart? Griese was. Average? Yep.

In the 1990's Aikman was called "great" and some even said maybe the GOAT. Now what do those people say? They say he is average and played on some great teams.

The hype will die down about Brady just like it has with these others in a few years. The way it did with Warner being called "Marino-like" and "great".

Graham, Unitas, Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana, Starr, Baugh and a few others are timeless and will always be called all-time greats. Brady won't...
Agree to disagree. Aikman is considered great. Otherwise he wouldn't be in the HOF. Who are these people who say he is average? Brady and Manning IMO took the so called "torch," from the era of Marino/Young/Elway/Aikman/Kelly. Brady benefitted from having a great team around him. So did every other championship team. If you don't believe he's great that's fine. Though I think history will show him as one of the best ever. Though we'll see.

Zandimd
12-13-2008, 06:41 PM
i love the rivalry when he plays

MarinePhinFan
12-13-2008, 07:10 PM
Agree to disagree. Aikman is considered great. Otherwise he wouldn't be in the HOF. Who are these people who say he is average? Brady and Manning IMO took the so called "torch," from the era of Marino/Young/Elway/Aikman/Kelly. Brady benefitted from having a great team around him. So did every other championship team. If you don't believe he's great that's fine. Though I think history will show him as one of the best ever. Though we'll see.


Aikman is considered great by Cowboys fans an maybe a few others.

You can't go by the HOF either. Joe Namath, who SUCKED as playing QB is in the HOF.

And yes, time will tell and if Brady plays another 9 seasons he may have more than one NFL record. Well, other than his 18 and NOOOOOOOOOOOOO season. :lol:

Tailgater
12-15-2008, 04:15 PM
You realize that Cassel is putting up comparable numbers that Brady did during his 1st season, right? The Patriots team and coaches could make Ryan Leaf look great. Period.

So I guess you think Cassel would have put up similar numbers with the pats 2001 squad as he would with this years? I think he's good, but he's no Brady.

He's putting up decent numbers while Brady put up historic numbers with the same group. He's leading the team to a winning season, while Brady led them to an undefeated season (against a much tougher schedule).

If he had been the qb in 2001, I'd be surprised if the Pats had a winning record, never mind make the playoffs or win the sb. The OL was a bunch of jags, as was the rbs, wrs, & te's.

Think Cassel could have gotten the team to the affcg with Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell as the #1 wr & Gaffney as the #2? You've got a screw loose if you do.

djfresh47
12-15-2008, 05:51 PM
So I guess you think Cassel would have put up similar numbers with the pats 2001 squad as he would with this years? I think he's good, but he's no Brady.

He's putting up decent numbers while Brady put up historic numbers with the same group. He's leading the team to a winning season, while Brady led them to an undefeated season (against a much tougher schedule).

If he had been the qb in 2001, I'd be surprised if the Pats had a winning record, never mind make the playoffs or win the sb. The OL was a bunch of jags, as was the rbs, wrs, & te's.

Think Cassel could have gotten the team to the affcg with Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell as the #1 wr & Gaffney as the #2? You've got a screw loose if you do.

Every player on every other team especially a rivalry team is terrible. Chad Pennington was a noodle arm bum who nobody wanted til speculation was he was going to be the Dolphins Qb.

I've never heard an "expert," say that Brady isn't great. People got fed up with hearing about him 24/7 during last season. Also alot of people didn't like the way the Pats went about it last year. If people can still believe the world is flat. People can still believe Brady isn't great.

Cassel has played well this year. If the Pats didn't already have Brady then he'd be a viable option going forward. Though if you already got a Benz why would you trade it in for a Oldsmobile?

Dolfan3773
12-15-2008, 09:38 PM
Unlike the rest of you 'morally correct' gentlemen. I could care less if he recovers -- not because i'm worried about playing him but because the cheating ******* doesn't deserve to play in the league any more than belicheat deserves to coach in it. In other words F Brady, and anyone bemoaning the poor little b*tches injury.


Man, you couldnt have put it any better..AMEN!

Ricky_Fan34
12-15-2008, 09:51 PM
So I guess you think Cassel would have put up similar numbers with the pats 2001 squad as he would with this years? I think he's good, but he's no Brady.

He's putting up decent numbers while Brady put up historic numbers with the same group. He's leading the team to a winning season, while Brady led them to an undefeated season (against a much tougher schedule).

If he had been the qb in 2001, I'd be surprised if the Pats had a winning record, never mind make the playoffs or win the sb. The OL was a bunch of jags, as was the rbs, wrs, & te's.

Think Cassel could have gotten the team to the affcg with Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell as the #1 wr & Gaffney as the #2? You've got a screw loose if you do.

Well you're a Patriots fan so YOU obviously have a screw loose.:lol::up:

MarinePhinFan
12-15-2008, 11:03 PM
So I guess you think Cassel would have put up similar numbers with the pats 2001 squad as he would with this years? I think he's good, but he's no Brady.

He's putting up decent numbers while Brady put up historic numbers with the same group. He's leading the team to a winning season, while Brady led them to an undefeated season (against a much tougher schedule).

If he had been the qb in 2001, I'd be surprised if the Pats had a winning record, never mind make the playoffs or win the sb. The OL was a bunch of jags, as was the rbs, wrs, & te's.

Think Cassel could have gotten the team to the affcg with Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell as the #1 wr & Gaffney as the #2? You've got a screw loose if you do.

Actually, Brady had a better defense and a healthy, good, RB. Cassel has neither.

Also, I do belive Cassel could have put up Brady's numbers with that 2001 team.

And this is Cassels first season playing since high school. He already has twice as many 400yrd games than Brady in 9 seasons. :wink:


Now, I don't think Cassel is as good or better than Brady. Brady has more experience and composure than Cassel. Athletic wise, yes, Cassel is as good.


And to the person who wrote that if some still believe that the world is flat then some can still think Brady is not great. And he's never heard any expert not call Brady great..well, yes they have. 8 out of 9 of Brady's seasons. That's how many times he was not voted as the best QB in the league by those experts. :boohoo:

Tailgater
12-16-2008, 02:09 PM
Actually, Brady had a better defense and a healthy, good, RB. Cassel has neither.

Also, I do belive Cassel could have put up Brady's numbers with that 2001 team.

And this is Cassels first season playing since high school. He already has twice as many 400yrd games than Brady in 9 seasons. :wink:


Now, I don't think Cassel is as good or better than Brady. Brady has more experience and composure than Cassel. Athletic wise, yes, Cassel is as good.


And to the person who wrote that if some still believe that the world is flat then some can still think Brady is not great. And he's never heard any expert not call Brady great..well, yes they have. 8 out of 9 of Brady's seasons. That's how many times he was not voted as the best QB in the league by those experts. :boohoo:

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. I have no problem with that, but to insist he isn't great because he's only been all pro every year is flawed to say the least.

Those same experts, when asked which qb they'd choose to start a franchise, pick Brady the majority of the time. He's proven, time and again, that he can get more out of his pesonnel than any qb in recent times.

I'd love to see Manning, Montana, Elway, etc, do what Brady has done with the likes of Brown, Patten, Wiggins, Branch, Givens, Cladwell, Gaffney, etc. I don't think they'd make the playoffs, never mind championships & super bowls.

MarinePhinFan
12-16-2008, 10:16 PM
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. I have no problem with that, but to insist he isn't great because he's only been all pro every year is flawed to say the least.

Those same experts, when asked which qb they'd choose to start a franchise, pick Brady the majority of the time. He's proven, time and again, that he can get more out of his pesonnel than any qb in recent times.

I'd love to see Manning, Montana, Elway, etc, do what Brady has done with the likes of Brown, Patten, Wiggins, Branch, Givens, Cladwell, Gaffney, etc. I don't think they'd make the playoffs, never mind championships & super bowls.


You do realize that lesser QB's ie Dilfer, have won Super Bowls with worse offenses than Brady, right? The 2000 Ravens won it with a 14th ranked offense but a number 1 defense. The Patriots in 2003 when they beat Carolina in the SB had a 12th ranked offense but a number 1 defense. The Giants last year won with a 17th ranked offense and I think a 10th ranked defense. Brady has never won more than 10 games with a defense ranked 15th or lower. This years Pat's defense is ranked 15th and they will probably win 10 games, at least. With Cassel at QB mind you... :D

Point being, Brady is a product of his defense.

satz
12-17-2008, 10:16 AM
Actually, Brady had a better defense and a healthy, good, RB. Cassel has neither.
I disagree -
Running game 2001 -1793 total yds (3.8 yds Per carry)/ 2008 1927yds with 2 games to go (4.5 yds per carry)
Defence 2001 - 20th ranked defence / 2008 16th ranked in 2 games to go

Also, I do belive Cassel could have put up Brady's numbers with that 2001 team.

You mean with troy brown(1199 yds) david patten(749 yds) ,terry glen(204 yds) ,Faulk(189 yds) comparing to wes (1071 yds),Moss(908 yds),Faulk (471 yds) and Gaffney(351 yds) - 2 more games to go.

And this is Cassels first season playing since high school. He already has twice as many 400yrd games than Brady in 9 seasons. :wink:
Now, I don't think Cassel is as good or better than Brady. Brady has more experience and composure than Cassel. Athletic wise, yes, Cassel is as good.

Jamarcus rusell is a better athletic then both andyou left him out

And to the person who wrote that if some still believe that the world is flat then some can still think Brady is not great. And he's never heard any expert not call Brady great..well, yes they have. 8 out of 9 of Brady's seasons. That's how many times he was not voted as the best QB in the league by those experts. :boohoo:
who are these experts ? have to met one who has made draft picks,games and sb winner every year correct.? i have not,.

cool beans

djfresh47
12-17-2008, 10:50 AM
You do realize that lesser QB's ie Dilfer, have won Super Bowls with worse offenses than Brady, right? The 2000 Ravens won it with a 14th ranked offense but a number 1 defense. The Patriots in 2003 when they beat Carolina in the SB had a 12th ranked offense but a number 1 defense. The Giants last year won with a 17th ranked offense and I think a 10th ranked defense. Brady has never won more than 10 games with a defense ranked 15th or lower. This years Pat's defense is ranked 15th and they will probably win 10 games, at least. With Cassel at QB mind you... :D

Point being, Brady is a product of his defense.

Brady has won under ten games once in his career. You're reaching for things. Did Dilfer have prolonged success? The Patriots have had a good defense. Ya know Miami had a pretty good defense and a far superior running back to Antowain Smith, Faulk, Dillon, Maroney and they weren't even making the playoffs. You'll probably say it's because of Belicheck. Well how good was Belicheck before Brady? What was the major difference when the Giants got hot last year? Even the Bucs when they won the SB Brad Johnson was a good Qb. You can drink your kool-aid. Yet even on a Dolphins message board I think most fans have common sense to acknowledge Brady as being one of the best Qb's. The only Qb who an arguement can be made to take over a healthy Brady is Peyton Manning. The same Manning whose had a far superior running attack and wr's before last year. Manning also has had to score more points than Brady so his stats are inflated. Both are great but Brady being a product of the defense is the funniest thing posted since Zach Thomas should be moved to safety.

Tailgater
12-17-2008, 11:49 AM
You do realize that lesser QB's ie Dilfer, have won Super Bowls with worse offenses than Brady, right? The 2000 Ravens won it with a 14th ranked offense but a number 1 defense. The Patriots in 2003 when they beat Carolina in the SB had a 12th ranked offense but a number 1 defense. The Giants last year won with a 17th ranked offense and I think a 10th ranked defense. Brady has never won more than 10 games with a defense ranked 15th or lower. This years Pat's defense is ranked 15th and they will probably win 10 games, at least. With Cassel at QB mind you... :D

Point being, Brady is a product of his defense.

Did you happen to see the four SB's? The defense collapsed in each, and Brady had to bring the team back to take the lead in the 4th qtr, winning 3 of them. They certainly helped get him and the team to the post-season, in some cases were the main reason, 2001 & 2005 in particular, but they've failed to perform up to standard in the super bowls.

Three were against top-ranked defenses btw. Rams were #1, and the iggles and panthers were at least top 5.

Amazing how many times in his career he had 4th qtr comebacks. (I believe he still holds the record). Wonder how that happened so many times with the best defense in the league? He's also undefeated in overtime games (8?), a majority without the defense having to take the field.

FinsNCanes
12-17-2008, 01:01 PM
Did you happen to see the four SB's? The defense collapsed in each, and Brady had to bring the team back to take the lead in the 4th qtr, winning 3 of them. They certainly helped get him and the team to the post-season, in some cases were the main reason, 2001 & 2005 in particular, but they've failed to perform up to standard in the super bowls.

Three were against top-ranked defenses btw. Rams were #1, and the iggles and panthers were at least top 5.

Amazing how many times in his career he had 4th qtr comebacks. (I believe he still holds the record). Wonder how that happened so many times with the best defense in the league? He's also undefeated in overtime games (8?), a majority without the defense having to take the field.

You guys should be praising Adam more then Tom if you ask me. If he misses..you lose some of those rings. I personally think Brady is a very good QB, just not great. I believe he fell into a good situation with a great defense and coach and has made the best of it.

MarinePhinFan
12-17-2008, 07:20 PM
cool beans

The Patriots defense was ranked 6th in 2001. This year they are ranked 16th.


As for the rushing yards. Cassel has nearly half as many yards rushing (240yrds) as the Patriots top rusher this year (Morris 550yrds and Morris is out for the year) . Cassel doesn't have one player over 550 yrds rushing this year. Brady's 2001 team got 1157yrds out of Smith alone.


Cassel-3270yrds with 2 more games to go.
Brady 2001- 2843 yrds.


Russel sucks.

MarinePhinFan
12-17-2008, 07:30 PM
Brady has won under ten games once in his career. You're reaching for things. Did Dilfer have prolonged success? The Patriots have had a good defense. Ya know Miami had a pretty good defense and a far superior running back to Antowain Smith, Faulk, Dillon, Maroney and they weren't even making the playoffs. You'll probably say it's because of Belicheck. Well how good was Belicheck before Brady? What was the major difference when the Giants got hot last year? Even the Bucs when they won the SB Brad Johnson was a good Qb. You can drink your kool-aid. Yet even on a Dolphins message board I think most fans have common sense to acknowledge Brady as being one of the best Qb's. The only Qb who an arguement can be made to take over a healthy Brady is Peyton Manning. The same Manning whose had a far superior running attack and wr's before last year. Manning also has had to score more points than Brady so his stats are inflated. Both are great but Brady being a product of the defense is the funniest thing posted since Zach Thomas should be moved to safety.


Brady has won 10 or less games twice in his career. Both times he had a defense ranked 15th or worse.

Miami's defense was nowhere near as good as the Patriots.

What has Belicheck done before the Pats?!??!! Are you serious? Well, for starters he coached some defenses that not even Joe Montana could beat. Did you know that not even the great Montana EVER, not once, beat a Belichick coached defense? Look into BB's career before you debate with me about it.

When the Giants got hot? Defense.

Brad Johnson, like Brady and Dilfer, benifitted from a great defense. Period.

Manning HAD to score more points because his defense usually sucked. He was able to win more than 10 games in a season on 7 different occasions with a 15th or less ranked defense. Actually, he won a Super Bowl with a 23rd ranked defense. :foundout:

Brady has never won more than 10 games with a defense ranked 15th or worse.

MarinePhinFan
12-17-2008, 07:53 PM
Did you happen to see the four SB's? The defense collapsed in each, and Brady had to bring the team back to take the lead in the 4th qtr, winning 3 of them. They certainly helped get him and the team to the post-season, in some cases were the main reason, 2001 & 2005 in particular, but they've failed to perform up to standard in the super bowls.

Three were against top-ranked defenses btw. Rams were #1, and the iggles and panthers were at least top 5.

Amazing how many times in his career he had 4th qtr comebacks. (I believe he still holds the record). Wonder how that happened so many times with the best defense in the league? He's also undefeated in overtime games (8?), a majority without the defense having to take the field.


You're wrong about everything you just wrote. Do you think I don't watch football?

The Patriots defense in the 2001 Super Bowl held the Rams to 17 points. The "Greatest Show on Turf" held to 17 points. A Rams offense that averaged 32 points a game. Yeah, the Patriots defense REALLY folded. :rolleyes2:

And to say that the Patriots defense hasn't played up to standards in the Super Bowl makes me think you are either retarded or not a Patriots fan.

The Rams defense was ranked 8th in the league in 2001. Not 1st. :rolleyes2:
The Carolina defense was ranked 10th. Not top 5. :rolleyes2:
The Eagles were ranked 2nd. Good job on that one. :up: (They put up 24 pts on the Eagles. The Eagles defense, on average, gave up 17 points per game. So, the Patriots put up one more TD than the Eagles usually give up.

Brady is not even close to owning the 4th QB comeback record. Elway has 47 and he has the record. Brady has around 13. There are at LEAST 15 other QB's with more comebacks than Brady. I stopped searching after that. :rolleyes2:

And Brady is 7-0 in OT. In 3 of those games, the other team got the ball first so his defense did in FACT have to "take the field". :rolleyes2:

MarinePhinFan
12-17-2008, 07:56 PM
You guys should be praising Adam more then Tom if you ask me. If he misses..you lose some of those rings. I personally think Brady is a very good QB, just not great. I believe he fell into a good situation with a great defense and coach and has made the best of it.


Very well said!! The Patriots have 3 Super Bowl wins by a combined 9 points.

Let's see, 9/3 = 3!! A field goal is 3 points. Adam kicks field goals. The Patriots won the Super Bowl by 3 points all 3 times.

I think we may be on to something here!! ;)

Vikeman
12-17-2008, 08:16 PM
I have to add one more thing. Brady is no where near the greatest of all time. He has played on some of the greatest teams ever and he has been the QB for one of the greatest dynasties ever, but so was Bradshaw.

Brady, seriously, is a little above average.

His play in the reg. season has been well above av. But over his last three playoff runs, it has been very av. (pressure time) Following the '05 season, at Denver, the Pats lost 27-13 and he threw 3 picks. Following the '06 season, blew 21-3 1st half lead in the AFC champ game at Indy, and threw 2 2nd half picks. In the AFC champ game last season vs. SD, he played TERRIBLE with 3 picks. And we all saw SB42. In fact, in those four pressure packed games, he is 1-3, 5 TD passes and 6 picks. His QB rating is approx. 74.4 in those games. That's what they consider "clutch" up here in New England. Bunch of freakn' jock sniffers up here!

Vikeman
12-17-2008, 08:17 PM
Did you happen to see the four SB's? The defense collapsed in each, and Brady had to bring the team back to take the lead in the 4th qtr, winning 3 of them. They certainly helped get him and the team to the post-season, in some cases were the main reason, 2001 & 2005 in particular, but they've failed to perform up to standard in the super bowls.

Three were against top-ranked defenses btw. Rams were #1, and the iggles and panthers were at least top 5.

Amazing how many times in his career he had 4th qtr comebacks. (I believe he still holds the record). Wonder how that happened so many times with the best defense in the league? He's also undefeated in overtime games (8?), a majority without the defense having to take the field.

Yeah, it's easy when you know what blitzes are coming ahead of time!

MarinePhinFan
12-17-2008, 09:02 PM
Yeah, it's easy when you know what blitzes are coming ahead of time!


HA!

djfresh47
12-17-2008, 10:29 PM
The Patriots winning has nothing to do with Brady and has everything to do with everything else? Nevermind what Belicheck did at Cleveland remember what he did as a DC with the Tuna, that's all that matters. Under that same premise forget what Wanny did as a head coach in Chicago and Miami and remember what he did as a DC? Fans don't have to accept Brady as one of the greats. They can be bitter. I'm bitter that the Dolphins finally got a Qb that doesn't make me cringe and it's been what 10 seasons?

Brady is a product of the Patriots system and the defense and a kicker who I think missed 2 field goals vs the Panthers in the SB. He did not lead the drives to get them in range for the field goals.

Tom Brady is a product of a system which luckily for him everybody realizes. That's why he'll be a 1st ballot HOF Qb. Considered one of the best ever by "experts."

#1dolphinsfan
12-18-2008, 12:26 AM
Culpeppers knee was WAY WORSE then Toms is and he came back

satz
12-18-2008, 10:22 AM
What is funny is as a fan after watching cassell play with the same offence as last year it is painfull in the redzone.when brady gets into the red zone it is money but matt it is tough to watch .Again , matt took a offence that put up 550 pts setting NFL record over with upgraded RB and made it look avg.

Tailgater
12-18-2008, 12:56 PM
You're wrong about everything you just wrote. Do you think I don't watch football?

The Patriots defense in the 2001 Super Bowl held the Rams to 17 points. The "Greatest Show on Turf" held to 17 points. A Rams offense that averaged 32 points a game. Yeah, the Patriots defense REALLY folded. :rolleyes2:

And to say that the Patriots defense hasn't played up to standards in the Super Bowl makes me think you are either retarded or not a Patriots fan.

The Rams defense was ranked 8th in the league in 2001. Not 1st. :rolleyes2:
The Carolina defense was ranked 10th. Not top 5. :rolleyes2:
The Eagles were ranked 2nd. Good job on that one. :up: (They put up 24 pts on the Eagles. The Eagles defense, on average, gave up 17 points per game. So, the Patriots put up one more TD than the Eagles usually give up.

Brady is not even close to owning the 4th QB comeback record. Elway has 47 and he has the record. Brady has around 13. There are at LEAST 15 other QB's with more comebacks than Brady. I stopped searching after that. :rolleyes2:

And Brady is 7-0 in OT. In 3 of those games, the other team got the ball first so his defense did in FACT have to "take the field". :rolleyes2:

I guess I'll just have to accept the fact that you're just a brady-hater. I'm sure you're spiel last year was BB sucks - it's all brady".

Did the pats defense have the lead in every sb yet allowed the other team to either tie or go ahead, in some cases multiple times? Yes. In each sb the defense collapsed in the 4th qtr. What games were you watching?

I didn't say they were not tremendous in the sb at times (2001 & 2003 especially), but, again, they caved in the 4th qtr, when that 'avg qb' Brady brought them back to win 3 of 4, and should have won the 4th.

You picks stats nicely. Is your defensive ranking by point allowed or not? Seems like you go from yds allowed to pionts allowed when it fits your needs.

In your 'expert' opinion, would Manning have won a sb in 2001 with Brady's weapons, with the Pats defense? Just imagine if his #1 was Troy Brown instead of Reggie Wayne, his rb Smith instead of James / Addai. If he had that roster to work with, I'd expect him to look more like he did in 1998 than 2006.

He's had skill players around him his entire career and couldn't get it done until they had a good/great defense. Look at his W-L record is with Bob Sanders out. From your perspective, this means manning must be avg, right?

Haters used to put manning above brady because of the stats. Then, once brady had the same type of skill players on offense, he puts up manning-type #'s and you throw that out the window?

I didn't clarify that Brady has more comebacks for ACTIVE qb's, not historical. My bad.

djfresh47
12-18-2008, 06:25 PM
Culpeppers knee was WAY WORSE then Toms is and he came back

I'd compare it more to Palmer's injury. If Brady came back and played like Culpepper is now i'd advise him to retire.

MarinePhinFan
12-18-2008, 09:35 PM
The Patriots winning has nothing to do with Brady and has everything to do with everything else? Nevermind what Belicheck did at Cleveland remember what he did as a DC with the Tuna, that's all that matters. Under that same premise forget what Wanny did as a head coach in Chicago and Miami and remember what he did as a DC? Fans don't have to accept Brady as one of the greats. They can be bitter. I'm bitter that the Dolphins finally got a Qb that doesn't make me cringe and it's been what 10 seasons?

Brady is a product of the Patriots system and the defense and a kicker who I think missed 2 field goals vs the Panthers in the SB. He did not lead the drives to get them in range for the field goals.

Tom Brady is a product of a system which luckily for him everybody realizes. That's why he'll be a 1st ballot HOF Qb. Considered one of the best ever by "experts."


Of course it has something to do with Brady. When did I ever state that Brady was not a part of their team? Brady is an average QB, with an above average, actually great, defense and coach.

MarinePhinFan
12-18-2008, 09:42 PM
What is funny is as a fan after watching cassell play with the same offence as last year it is painfull in the redzone.when brady gets into the red zone it is money but matt it is tough to watch .Again , matt took a offence that put up 550 pts setting NFL record over with upgraded RB and made it look avg.


LMAO!! You do realize that Cassel, in his first year playing since HIGH SCHOOL is the QB of the 7th best offense in the NFL, right? 16th would be "average"...7th is 9 places above "average". 7th in points and 6th in total yards. They don't score as much as last year well, because this is Cassel's first year playing since HIGH SCHOOL and they have no RB. How can you write that they have an upgraded RB this year?!?! Last year they had a RB who gained 900yrds. This year no one has gained more than 550yrds. Also, Brady's defense gave up a total of 268 points last year. This year the pats have given up 305 points with still two more games to play. :rolleyes2:

I also find it hilarious how Brady, even with his "record setting" offense didn't win the Super Bowl. :lol:

MarinePhinFan
12-18-2008, 09:58 PM
I guess I'll just have to accept the fact that you're just a brady-hater. I'm sure you're spiel last year was BB sucks - it's all brady".

Did the pats defense have the lead in every sb yet allowed the other team to either tie or go ahead, in some cases multiple times? Yes. In each sb the defense collapsed in the 4th qtr. What games were you watching?

I didn't say they were not tremendous in the sb at times (2001 & 2003 especially), but, again, they caved in the 4th qtr, when that 'avg qb' Brady brought them back to win 3 of 4, and should have won the 4th.

You picks stats nicely. Is your defensive ranking by point allowed or not? Seems like you go from yds allowed to pionts allowed when it fits your needs.

In your 'expert' opinion, would Manning have won a sb in 2001 with Brady's weapons, with the Pats defense? Just imagine if his #1 was Troy Brown instead of Reggie Wayne, his rb Smith instead of James / Addai. If he had that roster to work with, I'd expect him to look more like he did in 1998 than 2006.

He's had skill players around him his entire career and couldn't get it done until they had a good/great defense. Look at his W-L record is with Bob Sanders out. From your perspective, this means manning must be avg, right?

Haters used to put manning above brady because of the stats. Then, once brady had the same type of skill players on offense, he puts up manning-type #'s and you throw that out the window?

I didn't clarify that Brady has more comebacks for ACTIVE qb's, not historical. My bad.


I guess I'll just have to accept that fact that you're a Brady d*ck-sucker. :rolleyes2:


Actually, no, it's more than that. You're an ignorant liar who knows nothing about his own team.

Again, the defense didn't cave. I proved that in my other post to you.

MY stats?!?!! MY STATS!?!?! I proved you wrong on all but one of your stats and you question mine!?!?! LOLOLOLLOL!! I used points scored against in each stat when referring to the defense. Always have and always will. What did you use? You're azz? :lol:


Manning would have just as many Super Bowl rings as Brady if Manning were a Patriot. So would Rivers, Big Ben, Favre, Hasselbeck, Warner, McNabb, Marino, Elway, Montana, Dilfer, Johnson, Williams, Rypien, Hostetler, Brees, Palmer and Grossman..yes, I wrote Grossman. Why you ask? Well, all of these QB's have either won or gotten to a SB with or without a defense just as good as Brady's. Except Brees....and I think Brees is waaaaaay better than Brady. Actually, except for Hasselbeck, Dilfer, Williams, Rypien, Hostetler and Grossman...I think every QB I just listed is better than Brady.

Actually, Manning won his Super Bowl with a 23rd ranked defense. There you go again. Using your azz to pull things out of again. :rolleyes:


And the Coup de grace for you and your post?

I love how you end it with your correction about OT wins yet ignore all your other stats I proved you were wrong about.


You lose. :sidelol:

MarinePhinFan
12-18-2008, 10:05 PM
Culpeppers knee was WAY WORSE then Toms is and he came back


Culpepper came back?!? Have you watched him play? Doesn't he have like 8 wins since his "comeback" over a 3 yr period? That and a 72QBR, 17TD's, 26INT's and ~50% comp rating.

Besides, like Brady, Moss made Culpepper an All-Pro. Without Moss Culpepper sucks.


What a "comeback".

MarinePhinFan
12-18-2008, 10:10 PM
I'd compare it more to Palmer's injury. If Brady came back and played like Culpepper is now i'd advise him to retire.


What if he comes back and plays like Carson has since his "comeback"?

Pats fans better be concerned. QB's who have injuries like Brady sustained have a hard time coming back in one season or in Carson's or Culpepper's case, ever. And Brady is older than both of these guys.

djfresh47
12-18-2008, 10:54 PM
What if he comes back and plays like Carson has since his "comeback"?

Pats fans better be concerned. QB's who have injuries like Brady sustained have a hard time coming back in one season or in Carson's or Culpepper's case, ever. And Brady is older than both of these guys.

You mean tears up his elbow? Or playing in every game the following two seasons?

MarinePhinFan
12-18-2008, 11:05 PM
You mean tears up his elbow? Or playing in every game the following two seasons?


I mean going from a 101 QBR to his current 69QBR. :rolleyes:

djfresh47
12-19-2008, 01:15 AM
I mean going from a 101 QBR to his current 69QBR. :rolleyes:

Oh so this year on a team with turmoil and as little talent as anybody outside of the Lions. His rating has dropped but I think it has alot to do with the Bengals organization as a whole rather than him. If he has Tommy John surgery which is rumored that changes things.

MarinePhinFan
12-19-2008, 02:04 AM
Oh so this year on a team with turmoil and as little talent as anybody outside of the Lions. His rating has dropped but I think it has alot to do with the Bengals organization as a whole rather than him. If he has Tommy John surgery which is rumored that changes things.


His production has dropped off each year after his knee surgery.

TD's: 2005 (year he was hurt) 32
2006 28
2007 25

INT's: 2005 12
2006 13
2007 20

And in the 4 games he played in this year: 3TD's 4INT's.

djfresh47
12-19-2008, 12:31 PM
His production has dropped off each year after his knee surgery.

TD's: 2005 (year he was hurt) 32
2006 28
2007 25

INT's: 2005 12
2006 13
2007 20

And in the 4 games he played in this year: 3TD's 4INT's.

Yet you fail to mention he threw for more yards in the two seasons after the injury.

MarinePhinFan
12-21-2008, 10:10 AM
Yet you fail to mention he threw for more yards in the two seasons after the injury.


Yet you fail to mention that his completion %, TD, TD%, Y/A and QB rating all went down while his INT's went up.

djfresh47
12-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Yet you fail to mention that his completion %, TD, TD%, Y/A and QB rating all went down while his INT's went up.

Comparable years. I don't think the knee was an issue.

joenhre
12-21-2008, 05:55 PM
As much as I hate the Patriots and Brady, I would never wish for a career ending injury on anyone.

MarinePhinFan
12-21-2008, 05:58 PM
As much as I hate the Patriots and Brady, I would never wish for a career ending injury on anyone.


Nor would I...

MarinePhinFan
12-21-2008, 06:01 PM
Comparable years. I don't think the knee was an issue.

I do...Look at how Manning played the first half of the season after his "minor" knee surgery. Brady suffered a major injury and had three more operations to clean up infection. He won't be back to 100% until at least the season after next.

djfresh47
12-21-2008, 08:27 PM
I do...Look at how Manning played the first half of the season after his "minor" knee surgery. Brady suffered a major injury and had three more operations to clean up infection. He won't be back to 100% until at least the season after next.

Palmer said he felt 100% at the midpoint of the season after his injury. McNabb said the same thing. Brady's injury was earlier in the season. He probably won't be 100% or confident in his knee at the start. I think he'll be 100% by midseason at the latest.

MarinePhinFan
12-22-2008, 02:57 AM
Palmer said he felt 100% at the midpoint of the season after his injury. McNabb said the same thing. Brady's injury was earlier in the season. He probably won't be 100% or confident in his knee at the start. I think he'll be 100% by midseason at the latest.

McNabb and Palmer didn't have three more operations. And all players, will say they feel 100%. Look at Culpepper the year he came back with the Dolphins.

djfresh47
12-22-2008, 11:37 AM
McNabb and Palmer didn't have three more operations. And all players, will say they feel 100%. Look at Culpepper the year he came back with the Dolphins.

I don't know how serious the operations were or the prognosis for clearing up an infection. I'd also say that Culpepper was a mobile Qb so that would hurt him. Daunte's also always been a turnover machine. His 2004 season was great. Though his 2002 season was bad and his 2001 season was mediocre at best.

The mental aspect of being injured is almost as hard to overcome than the physical part.

MarinePhinFan
12-22-2008, 12:28 PM
I don't know how serious the operations were or the prognosis for clearing up an infection. I'd also say that Culpepper was a mobile Qb so that would hurt him. Daunte's also always been a turnover machine. His 2004 season was great. Though his 2002 season was bad and his 2001 season was mediocre at best.

The mental aspect of being injured is almost as hard to overcome than the physical part.


The infection was serious enough to need three more operations. I'd call that pretty serious.

Daunte sucks. He had a few good seasons the same reason Brady had a great season last year and Cassel is having a good season this year. That reasons name is Randy Moss.

Vikeman
12-22-2008, 12:32 PM
The infection was serious enough to need three more operations. I'd call that pretty serious.

Daunte sucks. He had a few good seasons the same reason Brady had a great season last year and Cassel is having a good season this year. That reasons name is Randy Moss.

+1. Except I believe Cassel's success has much more to do with Welker, than Moss.

FrankP
12-22-2008, 12:38 PM
The infection was serious enough to need three more operations. I'd call that pretty serious.

Yeah... 3 more operations does look serious, however, the 3 more 'operations' were nothing more that some clean up... nothing major, probably no more that 45 minutes on the operation table, and by table, I mean, half chair, getting scoped while reading his favorite magasine. I wouldn't read too much into that...

MarinePhinFan
12-22-2008, 02:01 PM
Yeah... 3 more operations does look serious, however, the 3 more 'operations' were nothing more that some clean up... nothing major, probably no more that 45 minutes on the operation table, and by table, I mean, half chair, getting scoped while reading his favorite magasine. I wouldn't read too much into that...


The operations were to clean out an infection that was endangering the graft he received. All required general anaesthesia. Which means he was in an operating room, on an operating table and most likely intubated. Basically, the same things done for his first surgery just for shorter periods of time.

MarinePhinFan
12-22-2008, 02:02 PM
+1. Except I believe Cassel's success has much more to do with Welker, than Moss.

Absolutley. Welker has led the league in YAC last season and this current one. Helping both Brady and Cassel immensely.

satz
12-22-2008, 04:32 PM
Having watched casell i think the i give this guy this
1)When Moss is doubled and wes was double by few teams he threw to gaffney ,faulk and watson. Of late even against arizona where both were doubled gaffney got some big catches. he was not doing that before he never went to his 3rd and 4th progression before the last few games

2)steelers game was his first in rain!. i cannot just say he bad on a game where he played for the first time in rain.He went as far to comment after the arizona game that he had better control in snow as this was his first game.

3)So he will succeed if he is given a good running attack and ask him to play with in his zone. eg put in vilking system where they staxk the box he will beat you outside.

4)He needs time ot develop , put him in a system with a good running game he will shine.he has developed and with a year or 2 he is going to be a good qb .

Now brady emm give me the MVP any day . brady is brady is the man and having watched both extensively i can say brady is very special. i reche cadwell is out of football now and he made him look a world beater.

djfresh47
12-22-2008, 05:07 PM
Having watched casell i think the i give this guy this
1)When Moss is doubled and wes was double by few teams he threw to gaffney ,faulk and watson. Of late even against arizona where both were doubled gaffney got some big catches. he was not doing that before he never went to his 3rd and 4th progression before the last few games

2)steelers game was his first in rain!. i cannot just say he bad on a game where he played for the first time in rain.He went as far to comment after the arizona game that he had better control in snow as this was his first game.

3)So he will succeed if he is given a good running attack and ask him to play with in his zone. eg put in vilking system where they staxk the box he will beat you outside.

4)He needs time ot develop , put him in a system with a good running game he will shine.he has developed and with a year or 2 he is going to be a good qb .

Now brady emm give me the MVP any day . brady is brady is the man and having watched both extensively i can say brady is very special. i reche cadwell is out of football now and he made him look a world beater.

Bad teams are generally the ones who need a Qb. So Cassel probably won't go into a good situation. Now some i've heard some people speculate on ESPN that bring in McDaniels as the head coach and then also signing Cassel would be a good idea.

I think Cassel has earned the opportunity to start for some team in the league. The one team that I think could make things interesting is the Jets. Favre's probably going to retire then unretire all offseason but they're going to have to get a Qb soon.

satz
12-22-2008, 10:52 PM
Bad teams are generally the ones who need a Qb. So Cassel probably won't go into a good situation. Now some i've heard some people speculate on ESPN that bring in McDaniels as the head coach and then also signing Cassel would be a good idea.

I think Cassel has earned the opportunity to start for some team in the league. The one team that I think could make things interesting is the Jets. Favre's probably going to retire then unretire all offseason but they're going to have to get a Qb soon.

NE is 28 million under cap for 2009 and Jets are 20 million over the cap from what i am told [had to confirm] so if its even true NE can franchise and still have money to make a run at asomugh of the raiders.

NE will franchise and trade him ,also kevin connell and matt gutz are behind and now gutz has 3 yrs in the system and kevin 1 so the backup`s are ready and their will be 3 qb`s. matt gutz showed alot of promise in preseason asking matt cassell to be released for him.But he is sneaked into the pratice squad .

MarinePhinFan
12-23-2008, 02:49 AM
NE is 28 million under cap for 2009 and Jets are 20 million over the cap from what i am told [had to confirm] so if its even true NE can franchise and still have money to make a run at asomugh of the raiders.

NE will franchise and trade him ,also kevin connell and matt gutz are behind and now gutz has 3 yrs in the system and kevin 1 so the backup`s are ready and their will be 3 qb`s. matt gutz showed alot of promise in preseason asking matt cassell to be released for him.But he is sneaked into the pratice squad .

There you are...Where are you getting that the pats are 28 million under the cap? I posted a link that says they are 2million under.

"According to my figures the Patriots' 2008 cap figure is $118,266,993 with 65 (53 active and 14 IR) signed players and a 7-man practice squad. The 2008 salary cap is $116,769,000. The Patriots' 2008 adjusted cap is $121,125,078. So I have the Pats under their adjusted cap by about $2.85 million."

http://www.patscap.com/

satz
12-23-2008, 10:18 AM
http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

If you see 2009 cap space you can see that they are 22 million under the cap for 2009. 2008 is the current year so when you franchise matt for 09 it will be a 09 hit not 08.

MarinePhinFan
12-23-2008, 02:47 PM
http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

If you see 2009 cap space you can see that they are 22 million under the cap for 2009. 2008 is the current year so when you franchise matt for 09 it will be a 09 hit not 08.


First of all, what makes you think they will franchise cassel? :shakeno:

Second of all, did you read the bottom of your site? The person doing the calculations left off:

Practice squad players, ERFA's and RFA's, player escalators, LTBE/NTLBE, players that retire, new deals/contracts with already signed players or UFA's signing. All that will take away cap space.

The site you are referencing sucks and is wrong. The Pats won't be anywhere near 28million under next season...They will be around 3-6million under. Maybe...

MarinePhinFan
12-23-2008, 06:09 PM
One more thing, if the patriots franchise cassel they will have to pay him nearly twice as much money they are currently paying Brady. Like I wrote before, it won't happen.

satz
12-24-2008, 05:22 PM
First of all, what makes you think they will franchise cassel? :shakeno:

I DO NOT THINK CASSEL WILL BE FRANCHISED,I JUST SAID IF THEY WANT THEY CAN

Practice squad players, ERFA's and RFA's, player escalators, LTBE/NTLBE, players that retire, new deals/contracts with already signed players or UFA's signing. All that will take away cap space.

dude pratice players make less than 1/2 million the 2 players signed during season are colvin and seau both for 1 yr vet minimum and this cap hit for this year.

you are correct if they sign asamugh from raiders that hit will reduce the cap hit but i will be thrilled about that then loss of cap space:hi5::hi5:.but i think realistice vince wilfork ,logan mankings and seymour have to be resigned and that will take away the entire cap and make room for a midlevel guy .

The site you are referencing sucks and is wrong. The Pats won't be anywhere near 28million under next season...They will be around 3-6million under. Maybe...

actually you posted the link to the site and miguel has been a good source for a few years and is very good and accurate. last great work i found when kyle eckel who plays for eagles was on the pats and he had a roster bonus of 5 million but he predicted by not making the roster in 08 the 07 bonus money gets funneled to the 08 cap. it did happen and at the start of FA the cap space went up.he notices and post small moves and contract things which i do not see other do


hahaha

MarinePhinFan
12-25-2008, 12:45 AM
hahaha


I'm not really sure what you are "hahaha-ing" about. Unless you're laughing at your grammar. hahahaha

And, the Pats will be around 2-6million underthe cap next year. You still have proven nothing to suggest otherwise. :hi5::hi5: :rolleyes2:

satz
12-25-2008, 05:28 PM
I'm not really sure what you are "hahaha-ing" about. Unless you're laughing at your grammar. hahahaha

And, the Pats will be around 2-6million underthe cap next year. You still have proven nothing to suggest otherwise. :hi5::hi5: :rolleyes2:
i know my grammer is horrible , english is my 4th language and could never learn to write it good .

brady cap hit is 13 million and if franchised cassell will be 14 million .so how it is a double ?.

i would take vince wilfork and mankins resigning as a great offseason.

Tailgater
12-26-2008, 12:49 PM
i know my grammer is horrible , english is my 4th language and could never learn to write it good .

brady cap hit is 13 million and if franchised cassell will be 14 million .so how it is a double ?.

i would take vince wilfork and mankins resigning as a great offseason.

Bradys 2009 cap hit is at least $13M, but the pats won't be handing him that much in cash

I didn't check the NFLPA site, but lets assume Brady is on the books for the same as this year ($5M in salary & $3M in roster bonuses). Call it $8M. Cassel, if he signed the tag, would get $14.5M from the pats.

Not quite double, but close enough. I agree the Pats would not do this if they expected to be on the hook for it. They won't be, since he'll be traded before that happens, but they do need to have the cap space to do the tagging.

Miguel has the one of the best cap pages out there. He has the rep to back up his numbers. There's no more accurate cap page for any team (that we as fans can access) anywhere. The media has come to know this and sites Miguels info frequently in their articles relating to the Pats cap situation.

He will be off a bit on the overall number, (playing time incentives for Wilhite, possibly Green Ellis, maybe a couple others) and escalator clauses here & there will be factored in as they become available), but, if history is any judge, his projection will be accurate, , moreso than any document that exists outside of Gillette Stadium or the NFL office.

With all the contracts that are in the last year in 2009, I can see them being $22M under the cap. Players like Wilfork, Mankins, Kazcur, & Hobbs are going in to the last year of their rookie contracts. No big FA signings in 2008, so less bonus money to spread to 2009