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View Full Version : 2 determine who MIA will draft: Lets continue with who CLEVELAND will pick at #5



MrEd
01-26-2009, 08:59 PM
Ok. I have QB Matthew Stafford being picked by DET at #1 overall.

Then, I have LT Eugene Monroe being picked by STL at #2.

OLB Aaron Curry should go to KC at #3.

Then, OT Andre Smith should end up being the guy for SEA at #4.

Now, its getting a little harder. Who will the already playoff contending CLE select at #5?

They have a solid, if not great OL. They have a good problem at QB and some good WRs. But why is Edwards on the block? Hmm? Stalworth is always a question mark...

Could "they" be the team targeting Crabtree?

They did select Wimbley recently at one OLB spot. But McGinest is probably retiring. So they do need a SOLB. Their DE's don't provide too much pass rush in the amount of sacks that they lack in...

Could DE Brian Orakpo be the guy? He might be the answer at DE or even opposite Wimbley replacing McGinest at SOLB.

Do they go with a RB like Beanie Wells since Jamaal Lewis is over 30?

This one is tuff.

Their CBs do INT the ball. Plus they got Travis Daniels as the NB too.

I think the likelihood is out of DE Brian Orakpo, RB Beanie Wells, or a Cb like Michael Jenkins. This time I'm going to leave out a WR like Michael Crabtree only because since its so obviously obvious that they don't need a WR....people might still go vote for him just because of his popularity...and I'll have to go over the polls and select who I feel is the more likely choice.

So who will it be? DE/OLB Brian Orakpo? :up: Or RB Beanie Wells? :unsure: Or CB Michael Jenkins? :err:

albyfinfan
01-26-2009, 09:16 PM
Sea. is not passing up on Crabtree

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Wait, majority in the other thread said Crabtree to Seattle, yet you say Smith here?

So, in fact your threads are pointless and you're basically going to make 32 threads showing us all your mock rather than listen to the opinions of others.

Just wanted to get that straight.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Wait, majority in the other thread said Crabtree to Seattle, yet you say Smith here?

So, in fact your threads are pointless and you're basically going to make 32 threads showing us all your mock rather than listen to the opinions of others.

Just wanted to get that straight.

No. I'm going to open up discussions in order to make a more "likely" pick that the team will make so that we can get a better idea of who would be available when MIA picks at #25.

I'm not looking at just what the most popular pick is...but what the opinions of others and the discussions and debates bring out that allow for a "it makes most sense" conclusion.

If the consensus makes sense, yes, then we can come to a conclusion that fits.

Remember, in my DET pick, I had Eugene Monroe, but then the debate convinced me that the Stafford was the more logical pick.

The Crabtree argument wasn't making enough sense. So I had to select Smith, because its based on the reports that have come out of SEA that they do NOT want a rookie WR, but a veteran. And they have been saying that they will make a legit push for Houshmansada.

So based on the "current" reports, Crabtree is not what they are looking for. So why would I go ahead and select Crabtree?

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it's pointless to make this many threads for discussion when you already have your own opinion. Post your full mock, and you'll get your discussion. But when posters are saying that Seattle should pick Crabtree, you tell them they're wrong because "reports" state otherwise.

That's not looking for opinions. That's flat out saying "you're wrong, I'm right". Your thread titles all say "Let's", meaning Let Us. Plural. You're asking for a consensus choice at each pick, so when majority wins out, that's who should be the choice. Otherwise, you're just compiling your own mock, and in turn should post 1 thread titled "MrEd's Mock".

MrEd
01-26-2009, 10:01 PM
Sea. is not passing up on Crabtree

And this could end up true. Anything's possible. But that would be changed once SEA proves that it will by not signing Houshmansada or obtain a WR prior. Right now, we've got to go with the reports.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 10:12 PM
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it's pointless to make this many threads for discussion when you already have your own opinion. Post your full mock, and you'll get your discussion. But when posters are saying that Seattle should pick Crabtree, you tell them they're wrong because "reports" state otherwise.

That's not looking for opinions. That's flat out saying "you're wrong, I'm right". Your thread titles all say "Let's", meaning Let Us. Plural. You're asking for a consensus choice at each pick, so when majority wins out, that's who should be the choice. Otherwise, you're just compiling your own mock, and in turn should post 1 thread titled "MrEd's Mock".

Well, that would be a good point "if" I indeed had my mind made up. I am asking for opinions in order for us all to put ideas and more importantly "INFORMATION" out there so that we can make a right decision.

I'm not saying that "I'm" right. I'm saying that based on the discussions, the Crabtree folk didn't make any real sense.

Again, remember the DET thread? I was of the opinion that Eugene Monroe would be DET's pick, but the discussion made me realize that Stafford made more sense.

I actually hesitated about putting a poll for this exact reason. but the poll is part of the disecting information by taking "opinions" into the consideration, but not going solely by the opinions.

Opinion should be a part of the judgment making. But the most important thing is the "reports" that are coming out.

Why should we expect a team to pick a player, "just because we like him"....and not based on what "the actual TEAM" is saying is their priorities? That would be foolish and not being a realistic mock.

This is not a "mock" draft per se. Those are for fun, I guess. To me, its more fun being able to actually make a better assessment to what "will actually happen" instead.

Again, I am trying to come up with what will "likely" happen. And based on "current" reports.

As soon as some new thing develops with a certain team (like SEATTLE not signing a WR) then we can go back and change the probabilities.

Right now, Crabtree doesn't make sense based on the "current" reports coming out from SEATTLE.

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Every team has questions and never reveal their hands prior to draft time no matter what reports say.

Crabtree is a very logical pick for Seahawks. He's a big target. Engram's up in age, and we don't know how the other two will come back from their injuries. It's much like people wanting to draft a nose tackle. Ferguson is getting old and we don't know what we have in Soliai and Cohen. It's all speculation at this point. However, when a talent like Crabtree comes into play, he SHOULD be the pick, especially if the team has a need at the position.

SamIam
01-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Every team has questions and never reveal their hands prior to draft time no matter what reports say.

Crabtree is a very logical pick for Seahawks. He's a big target. Engram's up in age, and we don't know how the other two will come back from their injuries. It's much like people wanting to draft a nose tackle. Ferguson is getting old and we don't know what we have in Soliai and Cohen. It's all speculation at this point. However, when a talent like Crabtree comes into play, he SHOULD be the pick, especially if the team has a need at the position.

I kid you not, Crabs to Seattle is on every single mock I have seen so far :lol:

MrEd
01-26-2009, 10:26 PM
Every team has questions and never reveal their hands prior to draft time no matter what reports say.

Crabtree is a very logical pick for Seahawks. He's a big target. Engram's up in age, and we don't know how the other two will come back from their injuries. It's much like people wanting to draft a nose tackle. Ferguson is getting old and we don't know what we have in Soliai and Cohen. It's all speculation at this point. However, when a talent like Crabtree comes into play, he SHOULD be the pick, especially if the team has a need at the position.

Ey, I'm willing to go back and change the selection, but look, you say that Crabtree is a talent....are you saying that Andre Smith isn't?

Draft gurus feel that Andre Smith has the "most" upside than any other OT. He's just not going to be top 3 because of the fact that he is more a RT or LG because of not being the "typical" LT height.

However, Jordan Gross played LT at the same height that Andre Smith did and made the Pro Bowl even though experts/teams don't feel Gross is a "real" LT. They feel he is better suited for RT, though he's still a Pro Bowl LT.

Smith is in the same genre. He should be a Pro Bowl LT though he's not the height you want at LT, but really a RT.

So making the "Crabtree is a talent" argument is the "same" argument that you can make for Andre Smith. In fact, even "more" because of the fact the following facts:

#1) OL is more crucial
#2) SEATTLE remembers very much how much better they were with Steve Hutchinson next to Jones. Smith would start off at LG next to Jones.
#3) They have WRs in Deon Branch, Burleson, Robinson, and Ingram....
#4) Reports rumbling that SEA wants a "vet" WR, not a rookie and want especially to sign TJ Housh.

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 10:30 PM
If you're going to move Smith right away to guard, shouldn't take him that high. Just my opinion. You can get a left guard in a later round or the 2nd.

A wide receiver like Michael Crabtree is VERY hard to find.

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 10:32 PM
As for "reports" right now, I only believe CONFIRMED reports.

So until Seattle gets that vet wideout, I won't believe it.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 10:41 PM
If you're going to move Smith right away to guard, shouldn't take him that high. Just my opinion. You can get a left guard in a later round or the 2nd.

A wide receiver like Michael Crabtree is VERY hard to find.

I'm not going to move Smith anywhere. i'm not their coach. I'm just putting some ideas out there that he may start off at LG instead of RT because of how good SEA's OL was when they had Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson on the leftside.

but an OL of Andre Smith's caliber is VERY hard to find as well.

Again, just making the argument that a WR like Crabtree is VERY hard to find is no different than saying that MIA should draft Mark Sanchez if he was there or to draft Eugene Monroe if he was there just because a QB like that or a LT like that is hard to find. It's not going to match our need.

If they are indeed planning on TJ Housh, why would they go with Crabtree, when they need OL???

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 10:44 PM
But like I said, reports are just rumors right now. It's not confirmed that they're gonna go get Housh. Not confirmed at all.

I'm not saying Smith is bad, but if you're gonna draft him to play RT or LG, drafting him that high, you'll pay him like a LT. That's not what you want to do.

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 10:49 PM
And wide receiver IS a need for the Seahawks.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 10:52 PM
But like I said, reports are just rumors right now. It's not confirmed that they're gonna go get Housh. Not confirmed at all.

I'm not saying Smith is bad, but if you're gonna draft him to play RT or LG, drafting him that high, you'll pay him like a LT. That's not what you want to do.

Steve Hutchinson, Eric Steinbach, Kris Dielman...all have gotten LT money. And they are all LGs. LGs are very important and great ones get LT money.

Again, you continue to downplay reports. But reports is all we have to go by right now. I have to go by reports that MIA will be re-signing Vernon Carey. So I would not make a mock with a RT at #25. The same way why I can't put Crabtree at #4.

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 10:59 PM
Steve Hutchinson, Eric Steinbach, Kris Dielman...all have gotten LT money. And they are all LGs. LGs are very important and great ones get LT money.

Again, you continue to downplay reports. But reports is all we have to go by right now. I have to go by reports that MIA will be re-signing Vernon Carey. So I would not make a mock with a RT at #25. The same way why I can't put Crabtree at #4.

Proven players vs. a rookie. Kind of a different story.

So, going by your logic, because reports state Crowder is unlikely to re-sign, ILB should be our pick at #25.

All mocks, free agent signing, everything right now is assumption except for team needs. Wide receiver is a need for Seahawks. That's all ANY pick is right now is assumption.

Saying Seahawks WILL NOT draft a wide receiver is because of the assumption that they will for sure get Housh. Saying they'll draft Smith and move him on the line is an assumption. Even me saying the other wide receivers won't come back well is an assumption.

The point I was trying to make is you're asking for everyone's opinions for the pick like you're doing a "forum mock". To make everyone's opinion moot is pretty much saying these are your picks and that's why I said you should just make your own thread for your mock.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:10 PM
Ed Mr , you should put Beanie Wells down for the Browns then, since he got the least amount of votes. Makes perfect sense.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:11 PM
Proven players vs. a rookie. Kind of a different story.

So, going by your logic, because reports state Crowder is unlikely to re-sign, ILB should be our pick at #25.

All mocks, free agent signing, everything right now is assumption except for team needs. Wide receiver is a need for Seahawks. That's all ANY pick is right now is assumption.

Saying Seahawks WILL NOT draft a wide receiver is because of the assumption that they will for sure get Housh. Saying they'll draft Smith and move him on the line is an assumption. Even me saying the other wide receivers won't come back well is an assumption.

The point I was trying to make is you're asking for everyone's opinions for the pick like you're doing a "forum mock". To make everyone's opinion moot is pretty much saying these are your picks and that's why I said you should just make your own thread for your mock.

He doesnt get it.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:14 PM
The Crabtree argument wasn't making enough sense.

Uh, until Seattle actually signs TJ, you arent making much sense.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:16 PM
And this could end up true. Anything's possible. But that would be changed once SEA proves that it will by not signing Houshmansada or obtain a WR prior. Right now, we've got to go with the reports.

So any rumour out there, we have to just go with it? Come on Ed, as draft day approaches all kinds of bs is "reported" as smokescreen. Get with the program. If we believed your "reports" then the Phins would have taken Chris Long last year.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 11:17 PM
Proven players vs. a rookie. Kind of a different story.

So, going by your logic, because reports state Crowder is unlikely to re-sign, ILB should be our pick at #25.

All mocks, free agent signing, everything right now is assumption except for team needs. Wide receiver is a need for Seahawks. That's all ANY pick is right now is assumption.

Saying Seahawks WILL NOT draft a wide receiver is because of the assumption that they will for sure get Housh. Saying they'll draft Smith and move him on the line is an assumption. Even me saying the other wide receivers won't come back well is an assumption.

The point I was trying to make is you're asking for everyone's opinions for the pick like you're doing a "forum mock". To make everyone's opinion moot is pretty much saying these are your picks and that's why I said you should just make your own thread for your mock.

No, ILB is a position that is usually a 2nd round pick and beyond. Then, yes, its very likely that MIA can indeed go ILB. However, Ireland hasn't exactly stated that he was "not" going to re-sign Crowder.

The forum is saying that Crowder shouldn't be back. That has never come out of any report from our staff, unlike what the SEA guys have stated about WR.

phinfan33
01-26-2009, 11:19 PM
And wide receiver IS a need for the Seahawks.
yes it is a need for them...

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 11:19 PM
And RT and LG aren't usually addressed in the first 4 picks, so there goes that argument.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 11:22 PM
So any rumour out there, we have to just go with it? Come on Ed, as draft day approaches all kinds of bs is "reported" as smokescreen. Get with the program. If we believed your "reports" then the Phins would have taken Chris Long last year.

"My" reports? Dude, I was saying last season that MIA was either going Jake Long or Matt Ryan. Poof! Who did we select? I was vehemently against Chris Long.

Reports all pointed that Chris Long was NOT going to be the guy. It was just this forum that was obsessed with Chris Long.

I didn't buy the "popularity" hype, but went with what the actual "FO" was saying....and they were talking up Jake Long and Matt Ryan. Sorry.

Andre Smith it is for SEA. Then, we are supposed to be discussing CLE's pick and nobody is making their vote's argument. So that means that although the poll is showing Jenkins ahead, no one is making sense as to why?

So right now Orakpo is making the most sense sinse they need pass rush. I've been giving the guys ample time to make Jenkins or Wells point, but none have.

Wells also makes sense, since Jamal Lewis isn't lightning fast and they could use a change up. But not sure they go that high for a change up.

I'm concluding that with the playoffs and BAL and PIT showing what a good pass rush do...that CLE is going to go Brian Orakpo then.

Those voting on these polls sound like the Democrats that voted for Obama "just" because he was 1/3 black and popular with Hollywood. Making no sense whatsoever.

Instead of looking at what the candidate stood for, you had conservatives voting for a liberal who went against everything they believe in....JUST BECAUSE HE WAS COOL, BLACK, AND/OR POPULAR. :err:

This is what many here are sounding like. They are putting votes for a particular player, but not making an argument as to "why would that team make that selection".

At least, I give what many are saying about Crabtree. But no one is saying as to why would CLE select Jenkins???:err:

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:23 PM
No, ILB is a position that is usually a 2nd round pick and beyond. Then, yes, its very likely that MIA can indeed go ILB. However, Ireland hasn't exactly stated that he was "not" going to re-sign Crowder.

The forum is saying that Crowder shouldn't be back. That has never come out of any report from our staff, unlike what the SEA guys have stated about WR.

What have the Seattle guys stated? show me quotes. Jeff Ireland stated and I quote " our 1st pick will be a pillar of our DEFENSE for a long time." dont believe everything you hear and read around draft time Mr Ed.

TonySporanoTuna
01-26-2009, 11:25 PM
I think Malcom Jenkins, but knowing Cleveland they will take Wells.

tl77
01-26-2009, 11:30 PM
Mr Ed

I just found these threads you started and think its a really cool idea to find out who we may be able to get in this draft. Well done!

MrEd
01-26-2009, 11:30 PM
What have the Seattle guys stated? show me quotes. Jeff Ireland stated and I quote " our 1st pick will be a pillar of our DEFENSE for a long time." dont believe everything you hear and read around draft time Mr Ed.

He didn't say that "on purpose. That was just a mistake when talking to NFL Network. I'm not going to make my conclusion on someone's mistake. please, you can't possibly be serious????

No, I went with the actual things he said "on serious" notes and the moves they were looking to make...and of course:

The fact that they had an OLB and "nothing at LT". Hello?

Look back at the archives. I kept strong with Jake Long and Matt Ryan. And that worked out better than buying the hype of a popularity contest here on this forum. Pfft.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:31 PM
"My" reports? Dude, I was saying last season that MIA was either going Jake Long or Matt Ryan. Poof! Who did we select? I was vehemently against Chris Long.

Reports all pointed that Chris Long was NOT going to be the guy. It was just this forum that was obsessed with Chris Long.

I didn't buy the "popularity" hype, but went with what the actual "FO" was saying....and they were talking up Jake Long and Matt Ryan. Sorry.

Andre Smith it is for SEA. Then, we are supposed to be discussing CLE's pick and nobody is making their vote's argument. So that means that although the poll is showing Jenkins ahead, no one is making sense as to why?

So right now Orakpo is making the most sense sinse they need pass rush. I've been giving the guys ample time to make Jenkins or Wells point, but none have.

Wells also makes sense, since Jamal Lewis isn't lightning fast and they could use a change up. But not sure they go that high for a change up.

I'm concluding that with the playoffs and BAL and PIT showing what a good pass rush do...that CLE is going to go Brian Orakpo then.

Those voting on these polls sound like the Democrats that voted for Obama "just" because he was 1/3 black and popular with Hollywood. Making no sense whatsoever.

Instead of looking at what the candidate stood for, you had conservatives voting for a liberal who went against everything they believe in....JUST BECAUSE HE WAS COOL, BLACK, AND/OR POPULAR. :err:

This is what many here are sounding like. They are putting votes for a particular player, but not making an argument as to "why would that team make that selection".

At least, I give what many are saying about Crabtree. But no one is saying as to why would CLE select Jenkins???:err:

Jake Long was a no brainer pick last year. I dont think anyone cares about your polls anymore, after you showed your ego and ignorance. Why ask for votes if you will just ignore them and do what you want anyway. What if Cleveland doesnt pick any of the 3 you have listed? Like the other guy said, just post your mock like everyone else and get it over with already.

MrEd
01-26-2009, 11:32 PM
Ed Mr , you should put Beanie Wells down for the Browns then, since he got the least amount of votes. Makes perfect sense.

You don't get it...:unsure:

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:32 PM
He didn't say that "on purpose. That was just a mistake when talking to NFL Network. I'm not going to make my conclusion on someone's mistake. please, you can't possibly be serious????

No, I went with the actual things he said "on serious" notes and the moves they were looking to make...and of course:

The fact that they had an OLB and "nothing at LT". Hello?

Look back at the archives. I kept strong with Jake Long and Matt Ryan. And that worked out better than buying the hype of a popularity contest here on this forum. Pfft.

lol. you honestly think Jeff Ireland said that by mistake? ok then. like i said, Beanie Wells has the least amount of votes, so take him. thats what you did for Seattle.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:34 PM
You don't get it...:unsure:
what dont I get? that you conducted a poll, Crabtree had the most votes, and an argument that makes sense. what cant you wrap your head around? Branch and Burleson are injured. Engram is old. Obomanu is also injured. ya, they dont need wr. but hey, ill differ to you wisdom. lets not forget youre the guy who said Jason Allen will be starting at cb next year too. youre brilliant Ed.

WelcomeBack
01-26-2009, 11:37 PM
Here's what I'm trying to tell you MrEd. This is a quote from your thread asking who Seattle should pick...


Well, my strict "constitution" is to use wisdom and insight when making decisions, not what's popular or what people who aren't using common sense want.

If you want a good conversation, why would you shut down others' opinions and say they aren't using common sense?

Seriously, everyone's guess is just as good as your's.

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:40 PM
Predicting Crabtree for Seattle is based on common sense. Like I stated, they could go OL or wr IMO. But sense I thought the purpose of the poll was to defer to the player with the most votes, i now see these polls as somewhat pointless if the OP already has his mind made up. I know the offseason is slow, but come on. Just post your freakin 1st round mock then Eddie.

phinfan33
01-26-2009, 11:43 PM
He didn't say that "on purpose. That was just a mistake when talking to NFL Network. I'm not going to make my conclusion on someone's mistake. please, you can't possibly be serious????

No, I went with the actual things he said "on serious" notes and the moves they were looking to make...and of course:

The fact that they had an OLB and "nothing at LT". Hello?

Look back at the archives. I kept strong with Jake Long and Matt Ryan. And that worked out better than buying the hype of a popularity contest here on this forum. Pfft.
WHAT??!!!! are you serious Ed? he said that as a smokescreen dude...c'mon now Ed,be serious here man...do you really think he was going to actually tell NFL Network OR anybody else who they were going to pick? NOOOOO!!!!! he said that just as fodder...dude,i agree that you just need to make your own mock draft,be it all rounds,or the first 3,first 4,or whatever,but just make your own mock,and be done with it...people will then read it,and make comments on it as to whether they agree or disagree...just do it man,make your own MrEd's Mock ok...

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:45 PM
WHAT??!!!! are you serious Ed? he said that as a smokescreen dude...c'mon now Ed,be serious here man...do you really think he was going to actually tell NFL Network OR anybody else who they were going to pick? NOOOOO!!!!! he said that just as fodder...dude,i agree that you just need to make your own mock draft,be it all rounds,or the first 3,first 4,or whatever,but just make your own mock,and be done with it...people will then read it,and make comments on it as to whether they agree or disagree...just do it man,make your own MrEd's Mock ok...

lol. ty. i cant believe anyone actually believes Jeff Ireland said that by accident. lol. Parcells would have canned him on the spot.

phinfan33
01-26-2009, 11:48 PM
lol. ty. i cant believe anyone actually believes Jeff Ireland said that by accident. lol. Parcells would have canned him on the spot.
i read that and my jaw dropped,and i finally had to say something...

ZachThomas76
01-26-2009, 11:53 PM
i read that and my jaw dropped,and i finally had to say something...

ya, i had the same debate last year with a guy on another site prior to the draft. he wanted C Long, and when Ireland said that, he was dancing. of course, he then had to admit after the draft that Jeff Ireland wasnt that clueless and dumb to make a slipup like that. anyhow, I was all for some fun draft debate, but Mr Ed seems intent on crapping on anyone who likes Crabtree to Seattle, because apparently he knows better.

Buff
01-27-2009, 12:06 AM
Beanie Wells here. Cleveland need RB help, and I think Jamal Lewis will slow down considerably over the next 2 seasons.

phinfan33
01-27-2009, 12:07 AM
ya, i had the same debate last year with a guy on another site prior to the draft. he wanted C Long, and when Ireland said that, he was dancing. of course, he then had to admit after the draft that Jeff Ireland wasnt that clueless and dumb to make a slipup like that. anyhow, I was all for some fun draft debate, but Mr Ed seems intent on crapping on anyone who likes Crabtree to Seattle, because apparently he knows better.
i was enjoying reading the debate,but it quickly dawned on me that he had his mind made up and as far as he was concerned,that was that,and when he made that comment on Jeff,i finally had to say something...

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:13 AM
Here's what I'm trying to tell you MrEd. This is a quote from your thread asking who Seattle should pick...



If you want a good conversation, why would you shut down others' opinions and say they aren't using common sense?

Seriously, everyone's guess is just as good as your's.

Yeah, that's not what I meant. I was just trying to explain not just going by the popular player, but by what all the data put together is pointing to. THat's all.

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:18 AM
WHAT??!!!! are you serious Ed? he said that as a smokescreen dude...c'mon now Ed,be serious here man...do you really think he was going to actually tell NFL Network OR anybody else who they were going to pick? NOOOOO!!!!! he said that just as fodder...dude,i agree that you just need to make your own mock draft,be it all rounds,or the first 3,first 4,or whatever,but just make your own mock,and be done with it...people will then read it,and make comments on it as to whether they agree or disagree...just do it man,make your own MrEd's Mock ok...

Was no smokescreen. People just read too in to things and over think stuff and give people too much credit. Jeff Ireland even admitted he had no idea he said that.

That didn't fool anyone.

*Word of Wisdom*

"Why would Jeff Ireland need to fool anyone if MIAMI WAS PICKING #1 OVERALL?????" :sidelol:

Trying so hard to trick the league and he signed him like a week before drafting him! :sidelol:

Who was he trying to fool? The Commissioner?:err:

Nobody to fool, we picked before EVERY OTHER TEAM! It was a slip of the tongue....and Jeff Ireland admitted just that later on....

there was no reason to fool anyone.

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:18 AM
Yeah, that's not what I meant. I was just trying to explain not just going by the popular player, but by what all the data put together is pointing to. THat's all.

So what data is pointing to Andre Smith at 4 for Seattle? I agree they need O Line. I also think myself and a few others made a strong case for why they could go Crabtree as well. So why not go with the guy with the most votes? Its kinda like a slap in the face of the others, as if their opinions are inferior to yours. Thats fine. Like others have said then, dont create a poll, just post your mock.

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:19 AM
Was no smokescreen. People just read too in to things and over think stuff and give people too much credit. Jeff Ireland even admitted he had no idea he said that.

That didn't fool anyone.

*Word of Wisdom*

"Why would Jeff Ireland need to fool anyone if MIAMI WAS PICKING #1 OVERALL?????" :sidelol:

because they were negotiating with more than one player at the time Edward. you are forgetting the business side of things. did it cross your mind it was a negotiating ploy ?

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:21 AM
So what data is pointing to Andre Smith at 4 for Seattle? I agree they need O Line. I also think myself and a few others made a strong case for why they could go Crabtree as well. So why not go with the guy with the most votes? Its kinda like a slap in the face of the others, as if their opinions are inferior to yours. Thats fine. Like others have said then, dont create a poll, just post your mock.

If you felt inferior, I apologize. That was not my intention...just trying to get a more probable scenario out of it...

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:23 AM
If you felt inferior, I apologize. That was not my intention...just trying to get a more probable scenario out of it...

whatever man. you just dont get what myself and a few others are trying to get across to you. If Seattle drafts Crabtree this coming year, I wil lbe happy. I think its a good pick for them, and I think they need a big physical target in their WC offense. personally, I dont really care what your little string of threads says. Carry on Edward.

BARF
01-27-2009, 12:24 AM
Ok. I have QB Matthew Stafford being picked by DET at #1 overall.

Then, I have LT Eugene Monroe being picked by STL at #2.

OLB Aaron Curry should go to KC at #3.

Then, OT Andre Smith should end up being the guy for SEA at #4.

Now, its getting a little harder. Who will the already playoff contending CLE select at #5?

They have a solid, if not great OL. They have a good problem at QB and some good WRs. But why is Edwards on the block? Hmm? Stalworth is always a question mark...

Could "they" be the team targeting Crabtree?

They did select Wimbley recently at one OLB spot. But McGinest is probably retiring. So they do need a SOLB. Their DE's don't provide too much pass rush in the amount of sacks that they lack in...

Could DE Brian Orakpo be the guy? He might be the answer at DE or even opposite Wimbley replacing McGinest at SOLB.

Do they go with a RB like Beanie Wells since Jamaal Lewis is over 30?

This one is tuff.

Their CBs do INT the ball. Plus they got Travis Daniels as the NB too.

I think the likelihood is out of DE Brian Orakpo, RB Beanie Wells, or a Cb like Michael Jenkins. This time I'm going to leave out a WR like Michael Crabtree only because since its so obviously obvious that they don't need a WR....people might still go vote for him just because of his popularity...and I'll have to go over the polls and select who I feel is the more likely choice.

So who will it be? DE/OLB Brian Orakpo? :up: Or RB Beanie Wells? :unsure: Or CB Michael Jenkins? :err:

dude, y not just do a mock draft instead of "lets see what one team drafts, so we could see what we draft." it will much easier that way instead of making thread after tthread of the same stuff, just a thought

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:29 AM
whatever man. you just dont get what myself and a few others are trying to get across to you. If Seattle drafts Crabtree this coming year, I wil lbe happy. I think its a good pick for them, and I think they need a big physical target in their WC offense. personally, I dont really care what your little string of threads says. I wont post in here again. Carry on Edward.

Good. I'd rather discuss the draft and actual sensible info on the teams reports and not just "i will be happy because my beloved player got drafted..." type of arguments. :rolleyes2:

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:32 AM
Good. I'd rather discuss the draft and actual sensible info on the teams reports and not just "i will be happy because my beloved player got drafted..." type of arguments. :rolleyes2:

I live 2 hours from Seattle, and trust me, I understand that team and its needs alot better than you do. Mike Crabtree isnt my "beloved player". He fits a glaring need for Seattle. The fact is, the majority of the people who posted in your little thread backed that opinion up. But apparently you are the only one giving out "sensible info." lol. are you really this dense?

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:33 AM
dude, y not just do a mock draft instead of "lets see what one team drafts, so we could see what we draft." it will much easier that way instead of making thread after tthread of the same stuff, just a thought

...because I think that this format will inform us better and get people to get out of "i wish we drafted this guy..." and so forth...

and get us to a more "i looks like these guys will be available...so things look like it is leaning towards us drafting this player..." type.

I for one would rather base my expectations of next season's team on who will likely be there...instead of just creating my "fantasy football" mock draft and a wish list for the 2009 team.

I also think that this opens up peoples minds to the rest of the league and the reality that every BIG name will not be available to us. We get a more realistic idea of who will be and who won't.

example: people saying "we can sign Nnamdi, Otogwe, Jason Brown, Suggs, etc...

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:35 AM
...because I think that this format will inform us better and get people to get out of "i wish we drafted this guy..." and so forth...

and get us to a more "i looks like these guys will be available...so things look like it is leaning towards us drafting this player..." type.

I for one would rather base my expectations of next season's team on who will likely be there...instead of just creating my "fantasy football" mock draft and a wish list for the 2009 team.

I also think that this opens up peoples minds to the rest of the league and the reality that every BIG name will not be available to us. We get a more realistic idea of who will be and who won't.

you are the one giving 3 choices at each spot. how do you know those teams take one of those 3 players? you dont. this is no more realistic than the other 10 million mocks out there. get real.

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:35 AM
because hes an ***.

:err: dude, take a chill pill. You are making yourself like the the ***.

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:36 AM
you are the one giving 3 choices at each spot. how do you know those teams take one of those 3 players? you dont. this is no more realistic than the other 10 million mocks out there. get real.

The point of the top 3 is the top 3 that most mocks have that particular team taking or who Mike Mayock feels is best at the position that that team is going to look to fill. :rolleyes:

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:38 AM
I live 2 hours from Seattle, and trust me, I understand that team and its needs alot better than you do. Mike Crabtree isnt my "beloved player". He fits a glaring need for Seattle. The fact is, the majority of the people who posted in your little thread backed that opinion up. But apparently you are the only one giving out "sensible info." lol. are you really this dense?

No he won't when the team is intent on SIGNING ONE BEFORE THE DRAFT!!!! :shakeno:

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:38 AM
The point of the top 3 is the top 3 that most mocks have that particular team taking or who Mike Mayock feels is best at the position that that team is going to look to fill. :rolleyes:

most mocks have Crabtree to Seattle, so you make no sense. lol.

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:40 AM
No he won't when the team is intent on SIGNING ONE BEFORE THE DRAFT!!!! :shakeno:

doesnt mean they will does it? you talk as if its a done deal already. even if Seattle got TJ, Id still be tempted to take Crab. they could get a guard in the 2nd.

Buff
01-27-2009, 12:48 AM
Mr Ed, you can't really take FA into account. It will throe everything off cue. I think what you started off doing was great, but the Seattle pick tossed it all out. Consensus was that Crabtree will go there, yet you chose someone else. I think thats the main issue.

Also, instead of three players, put up 4 or 5. More choices so to speak. And the poll wins out. Move on to the next team.

And to help this out, put up the previous picks, so no one will get confused & have to open other threads.

WelcomeBack
01-27-2009, 12:48 AM
...because I think that this format will inform us better and get people to get out of "i wish we drafted this guy..." and so forth...

and get us to a more "i looks like these guys will be available...so things look like it is leaning towards us drafting this player..." type.

I for one would rather base my expectations of next season's team on who will likely be there...instead of just creating my "fantasy football" mock draft and a wish list for the 2009 team.

I also think that this opens up peoples minds to the rest of the league and the reality that every BIG name will not be available to us. We get a more realistic idea of who will be and who won't.

example: people saying "we can sign Nnamdi, Otogwe, Jason Brown, Suggs, etc...

I was going to stop posting in this thread, but this quote brought me back in it. You're saying these types of threads will inform "US" better. When you say us, that includes you correct?

Now, when you say we're not using common sense, but you are...how are you being informed as well?

To me, it seems like you're taking these threads as a chance to show everyone your evaluations of players and team needs. Not to help yourself be informed. Cause when everyone came at you with LOGICAL reasons on why Seattle would take Crabtree, you shot it down and went with YOUR pick.

So, who are these threads really trying to inform?

Buff
01-27-2009, 12:51 AM
Lets move on to the next team. Jenkins goes to Cleveland. Thats what the poll says.

Cincy is up then LA

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:51 AM
I was going to stop posting in this thread, but this quote brought me back in it. You're saying these types of threads will inform "US" better. When you say us, that includes you correct?

Now, when you say we're not using common sense, but you are...how are you being informed as well?

To me, it seems like you're taking these threads as a chance to show everyone your evaluations of players and team needs. Not to help yourself be informed. Cause when everyone came at you with LOGICAL reasons on why Seattle would take Crabtree, you shot it down and went with YOUR pick.

So, who are these threads really trying to inform?

he also said he is basing his polls off other mocks and what Mayock has said. so in other words, hes basically just reporting something I can find for myself anytime I go look at mocks or turn on NFL Network.

JT-forpresident
01-27-2009, 12:56 AM
you are not offering a lot of options for every team lol 3 players is not enough... and seattle passing on crabtree will not happen

MrEd
01-27-2009, 12:58 AM
you are not offering a lot of options for every team lol 3 players is not enough... and seattle passing on crabtree will not happen

Aight. Well look. For sake of argument, I will change those two picks, since it really doesn't change the outcome after the top ten....so I'm going to change it. So that more people will get involved with the discussions and polls. Cool?

ZachThomas76
01-27-2009, 12:59 AM
you are not offering a lot of options for every team lol 3 players is not enough... and seattle passing on crabtree will not happen

LOL. ok you go "debate" Mr Ed for a while.

phinfan33
01-27-2009, 10:02 AM
MrEd just needs to do his own mock...oh and Ed,i'm well aware that we picked 1st overall in last years draft ok,i knew it then,as we all did...Ireland said what he said because as Zach here said...we were negotiating with Chris Long as well as Jake and one other i believe...there wasn't anyway our FO was going to come out and tell everyone who we were going to pick...that would not have made good business sense,but hey,you go do your thing and believe what you want to believe ok...

VT Dolphan
01-30-2009, 10:14 PM
Every time I saw Cleveland play, I saw Brandon McDonald getting toasted by whoever he was trying to cover. Anyone remember that one Thursday night game against Denver where Brandon Marshall just absolutely demolished their secondary? Malcolm Jenkins makes the most sense to me.

I think if we learned anything from last year's draft it's that you don't need to spend a high first rounder on a running back. I've never been a big fan of drafting a RB in the first unless they were a once in a decade type player ala Peterson. Matt Forte was a second rounder and you could argue he was the best rookie RB last year, maybe behind only Johnson. Slaton was a third rounder. If you have a talented o-line, which Cleveland does, whoever gets the carries should put up yards. They don't need to spend a top five pick on Beanie Wells.

wa7shfinfan
01-31-2009, 12:45 PM
isnt Sea drafted at 5

CedarPhin
01-31-2009, 12:57 PM
Seattle's at #4

Chainsaw
01-31-2009, 01:36 PM
MrEd, if you are going to do a mock forum draft, you MUST go with the polls whether it seems accurate to you or not. If you are going to interject what you think will happen and override the poll, you may as well just post your own mock.

Also, put more choices (at least 4 or 5).

Just a thought to keep the bickering down.

DKphin
01-31-2009, 02:08 PM
It's gotta be Beanie Wells. Jamal Lewis is not getting any younger and behind him they have Harrison, Patrick and Wright - not exactly the who's who of RBs.

SteelHack
02-01-2009, 03:23 AM
I live in the Cleveland area....and the fans want Curry or Brown....they want that pass rushing OLB...one guy even went so far as to say they liked Brown because he looked like a Steeler LB.

I think Curry will be there....so we shall see....also count me amoung the Crabtree does not get passed Seattle group

HACK

MrClean
02-01-2009, 03:07 PM
Ey, I'm willing to go back and change the selection, but look, you say that Crabtree is a talent....are you saying that Andre Smith isn't?

Draft gurus feel that Andre Smith has the "most" upside than any other OT. He's just not going to be top 3 because of the fact that he is more a RT or LG because of not being the "typical" LT height.

However, Jordan Gross played LT at the same height that Andre Smith did and made the Pro Bowl even though experts/teams don't feel Gross is a "real" LT. They feel he is better suited for RT, though he's still a Pro Bowl LT.

Smith is in the same genre. He should be a Pro Bowl LT though he's not the height you want at LT, but really a RT.

So making the "Crabtree is a talent" argument is the "same" argument that you can make for Andre Smith. In fact, even "more" because of the fact the following facts:

#1) OL is more crucial
#2) SEATTLE remembers very much how much better they were with Steve Hutchinson next to Jones. Smith would start off at LG next to Jones.
#3) They have WRs in Deon Branch, Burleson, Robinson, and Ingram....
#4) Reports rumbling that SEA wants a "vet" WR, not a rookie and want especially to sign TJ Housh.

Which draft gurus is that? I know some very knowledgeable college talent evaluators who believe Jason Smith has the most "upside" of any of the OTs.

Crabtree is a WR capable of being another Fitzgerald or at least a Calvin Johnson. Lack of quality depth at WR killed Seattle this past season. Crabtree combines BPA and fills a huge need at the same time. If he is on the board, I see no way Seattle passes him up.
I agree generally OL is more crucial. I guess it depends on if one believes Crab is a rare talent that only comes along every few years or could they just as well address their WR situation in round 2. Would they be better with the 2nd best LT in round 1 and the best WR still available in round 2, or would they be better off with Crabtree and the best OT still available in round 2?

MrClean
02-01-2009, 03:25 PM
Jake Long was a no brainer pick last year. I dont think anyone cares about your polls anymore, after you showed your ego and ignorance. Why ask for votes if you will just ignore them and do what you want anyway. What if Cleveland doesnt pick any of the 3 you have listed? Like the other guy said, just post your mock like everyone else and get it over with already.

Jake really became a no brainer pick after a month of free agency. In January many posters were saying we should pick Dorsey or Chris Long. Some even wanted Gholston :( and some wanted Ryan. Then we go through free agency, and outside of Smiley, we mostly signed defensive players and a gaping hole at LT was left untouched, considering the word was Carey was moving back to RT. By the last 2-3 weeks before the draft, it became glaringly obvious that Jake Long was the guy we were targeting primarily. The only way it wasn't going to happen was if his contract demands were completely out of wack from what Chris Long's contract demands were. Apparently they were not.

MrEd
02-02-2009, 02:36 AM
Which draft gurus is that? I know some very knowledgeable college talent evaluators who believe Jason Smith has the most "upside" of any of the OTs.

Crabtree is a WR capable of being another Fitzgerald or at least a Calvin Johnson. Lack of quality depth at WR killed Seattle this past season. Crabtree combines BPA and fills a huge need at the same time. If he is on the board, I see no way Seattle passes him up.
I agree generally OL is more crucial. I guess it depends on if one believes Crab is a rare talent that only comes along every few years or could they just as well address their WR situation in round 2. Would they be better with the 2nd best LT in round 1 and the best WR still available in round 2, or would they be better off with Crabtree and the best OT still available in round 2?

My scenario is taking into consideration that SEA reports have them wanting to sign a veteran WR instead of drafting one. They apparently are targeting TJ Housh.

I am not ignorant of their WR need, but that their need is going to be filled by draft time. They also need help at OL. Thus my Andre Smith analogy. And yes, most draft sites/gurus have Andre Smith with the most upside.

Just lacks LT height, but has adequate RT/LG size. WOrd is he will be a good starting LT, Pro BOwl starting RT, and a Pro Bowl starting LG.

MrClean
02-02-2009, 07:02 AM
My scenario is taking into consideration that SEA reports have them wanting to sign a veteran WR instead of drafting one. They apparently are targeting TJ Housh.

I am not ignorant of their WR need, but that their need is going to be filled by draft time. They also need help at OL. Thus my Andre Smith analogy. And yes, most draft sites/gurus have Andre Smith with the most upside.

Just lacks LT height, but has adequate RT/LG size. WOrd is he will be a good starting LT, Pro BOwl starting RT, and a Pro Bowl starting LG.

I'm rather late picking up on this thread, but I have to agree with the other posters who say if you are going to have a poll of what the members here think each team should or will do, then you should use the poll results for assigning picks to each team. Otherwise, there is no point in the poll if you are not going to give every vote equal value, just make a mock draft of your own for discussion.

As for Andre Smith compared to Jason Smith, regarding upside, I don't look at which one has the most draft sites claiming which has the most upside. I prefer to value more the opinions of those whom I know and trust in their observations. Most internet draft sites are a joke, IMO.

Pre free agency mock drafts are much more likely to be inaccurate because even with rumors floating around, we don't really know what a team will do in free agency.
I agree IF Seattle signs T.J. then it is slightly less likely they would draft Crabtree, but they are also two different types of WRs. T.J. is more or less just a possession receiver, moves the chains, doesn't stretch field or provide a great big play threat. Crabtree brings a lot more to the table. Other than Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson, he is the most dynamic rookie WR since Randy Moss

chewski
02-04-2009, 03:17 PM
crabtree is going to seattle!!! andre smith is a attitude problem and will fall out of the top ten

BARF
02-07-2009, 02:14 PM
...because I think that this format will inform us better and get people to get out of "i wish we drafted this guy..." and so forth...

and get us to a more "i looks like these guys will be available...so things look like it is leaning towards us drafting this player..." type.

I for one would rather base my expectations of next season's team on who will likely be there...instead of just creating my "fantasy football" mock draft and a wish list for the 2009 team.

I also think that this opens up peoples minds to the rest of the league and the reality that every BIG name will not be available to us. We get a more realistic idea of who will be and who won't.

example: people saying "we can sign Nnamdi, Otogwe, Jason Brown, Suggs, etc...

first of all its not a "fantasy football" mock draft that only happens if you are playing madden.

the only thing we need to get our minds opened up is click on the mouse of the player on all the mock drafts out there and read the bio, like i am pretty sure everyone has been doing since this computer technology and internet stuff came out.