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View Full Version : ***Official Miami Excuse Thread***



CedarPhin
02-10-2009, 02:30 PM
Now that the coordinators are set, now is a good time to go ahead and list what are sure to be the excuses from the kool aid crew should ShanCoker fall on his face yet again this fall.

1.) Injuries. An injury at QB, CB, OT, LB or TE could be devastating. Injuries happen so we'll likely get hit at one of these spots. Of course, Shanntard has had 3 classes to shore up these holes, but that won't stop the excuses crew.

2.) New coordinators. They are still picking up the systems. I expect a heavy dose of this one after OU kicks their ***** all the way up into Shalala's private box.

3.) Schedule.

4.) Youth. NEXT year will be the year. Rinse, repeat.

I also expect to hear about the 2010 Dade recruiting class, and how it will fall apart if LLLLLLLLLLLLLannard is fired.

TedSlimmJr
02-10-2009, 05:14 PM
All the "top 10" recruiting classes in the world can't overcome piss poor coaching and player development...

Rinse..repeat..

Did Shannon just hire a special teams coach to run the defense? lol

Namor
02-10-2009, 11:31 PM
This is just my personal opinion...but I feel Shannon will fall prey to the "Ron Zook"
method.What I mean is he will recruit very well,but under perform on the field,setting up a higher profile coach to come in and do very well.
Scuttlebut around Alabama that I'm hearing,is Tommy Tubervile will be looking to get
back into coaching in a year or two.With the money from his Auburn buyout (6 mill)
he could afford to take a high profile job that might not pay what he was getting
at Auburn,but the Miami job,he was a asst. their under J.J.would be something he would be interested in...and he wouldn't be back in the SEC.
I don't like him..but he does know how to beat Florida.
Plus, after the Tide..I guess the Canes would be my 2nd favorite team..or whoever
Auburn is playing.
Any of you with Miami ties heard any of this and what are your feelings if something like this went down in the next few years?

CedarPhin
02-11-2009, 04:43 AM
Tuberville's a good coach, I wouldn't mind seeing him if Lannard is fired after another uninspring season.

HurriPhin
02-11-2009, 02:38 PM
Its a shame to see a mod start a SPAM thread.

Whats your excuse?

CedarPhin
02-11-2009, 03:12 PM
It's not a spam thread at all. I'm sure that if Miami tanks this year, there'll be a plethora of excuses.

I'm just getting out ahead of the curve.

kpcane
02-11-2009, 03:36 PM
Who has said that this team was going to be successful this year? We all know that the schedule is brutal this year, and that our team is very young. It's common sense that it's going to take Randy 4 years to turn this program around to the way it used to be because it takes time to get talent and depth on the roster. Can we still beat teams like Va Tech and FSU? Yes, but we can't go undefeated in the ACC just yet. There's too much of a challenge every week to do that. These guys also need to accumulate the mental toughness that it takes to play on this level.
And, of course, Randy isn't going to be Bob Stoops after two years of head coaching experience. Give the guy a break! He's a new coach! He still has a lot to learn too, but I do believe that he is the right guy for the program and will be the guy to get us back on top. Hopefully he's picked the right guys for his assistants, so we can finally get some consistency with the coaches and the players. I think we won't lose more than 3 regular season games this year. If that's a failure to some of you, then so be it.

CedarPhin
02-11-2009, 03:43 PM
Funny, but Butch Davis didn't need "his guys" to turn around UNC. Neither did Paul Johnson at GT.

I was never a big supporter of Shannons, but his clock management at the end of the Emerald Bowl sealed it for me.

kpcane
02-11-2009, 03:59 PM
The GT team that got blown out in the Peach Bowl by LSU? That sounds familiar - I don't recall Larry Coker being considered the savior after that happened to us. And we didn't beat Gardner-Webb (I didn't make this up) 10-7 that year after blocking a last second FG.

And UNC lost the Meineke Car Care Bowl this year, and also lost to Virginia and Maryland.

If those are the standards you're setting for Randy Shannon, I'd say he's already met those. He's not the best coach in the entire world just yet, but he's only had 2 years experience. And now that he's getting a talented OC, I'm expecting those type of clock management mistakes to end.

CedarPhin
02-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Yeah, but he's 11-13 against D-1A teams. How much longer does he get? Another losing season, those recruits might not find UM too appealing.

We're Miami of Florida, not Miami of Ohio.

kpcane
02-11-2009, 04:11 PM
We didn't have a losing season last year, we went 7-5 during the regular season. We're going to clean up in recruiting in 2010, but I think Randy will be held accountable the following recruiting season. But I think we'll be a national contender by then (better than Paul Johnson and Butch Davis will ever be with their current teams).

chrisbaucom
02-11-2009, 07:54 PM
Yeah, but he's 11-13 against D-1A teams. How much longer does he get? Another losing season, those recruits might not find UM too appealing.

We're Miami of Florida, not Miami of Ohio.


I have never seen a more negative "fan" of a team in my life.

Perfect23
02-11-2009, 08:55 PM
Im not a fan of Shannon's coaching but i love his recruting.

JCane
02-12-2009, 10:48 AM
"We're still paying Coker's contract" is one of the excuses I like to use when I get drunk and take it to the extreme for cheap laughs after a loss lol. And then I'll stagger around pulling out all of my Lance Leggett jokes which takes me about 2.5 hours to cycle thru. :lol:

CedarPhin
02-13-2009, 03:48 AM
Maybe we can overextend Shannon, and when he's let go, we can hire another assistant off of his failed staff.

CedarPhin
02-13-2009, 03:49 AM
I have never seen a more negative "fan" of a team in my life.

Why? Because I don't drink the ShanCoker kool-aid?

I didn't like Coker either and people told me the same thing. Look how that turned out.

It's nice that Shannon can bring these heralded recruits in and all, but can he develop that talent? That's going to be the question.

And for the record, I did like the Whipple hire, go and look at the thread where the hire is/was announce. I'm just not confident in Shannon.

CedarPhin
02-13-2009, 03:51 AM
We didn't have a losing season last year, we went 7-5 during the regular season. We're going to clean up in recruiting in 2010, but I think Randy will be held accountable the following recruiting season. But I think we'll be a national contender by then (better than Paul Johnson and Butch Davis will ever be with their current teams).

Paul Johnson is remarkable because he did so well this year with guys that didn't even fit his system. Butch Davis didn't have a lot to work when he got to UNC, and he's beaten us the last 2 seasons, so he must be doing something right.

I didn't realize that 7-5 now counted as a success at UM. My how times have changed.

JCane
02-13-2009, 04:05 AM
Why? Because I don't drink the ShanCoker kool-aid?

I didn't like Coker either and people told me the same thing. Look how that turned out.

It's nice that Shannon can bring these heralded recruits in and all, but can he develop that talent? That's going to be the question.

And for the record, I did like the Whipple hire, go and look at the thread where the hire is/was announce. I'm just not confident in Shannon.

You're right. Some people just don't understand that there's a difference between what they call a "true fan" and then fans like you and I who have perspective and offer casual constructive criticism of the coaching staff and team. "True fan" thinks he's a true fan because he never criticizes the team even when it's warranted. "True fan" always drinks the Kool-Aid. It's ok to watch a game with some objective perspective.

CedarPhin
02-13-2009, 04:23 AM
Well that's the thing. I'd love nothing more than for UM to go out and win every game next season, but I'm not confident in Shannon running the show, and I've said as much to the point.

It's not like I've said they're screwed at everything. I've praised the Whipple hire, the recruits, etc, but I'm not pouring the Kool Aid like Poland Spring. There are a ton of questions. Can they develop talent? Hasn't been shown yet. Win a big game when it counts? Hasn't been done so far.

He can recruit, and I realize that many love him because he's a former player, but I'm not sure he's cut out for the job. He was a good DC, don't get me wrong, but Dave Wannstedt was a good DC with Dallas, Cam Cameron was a good OC with San Diego, etc., etc.

Some people are just better off being coordinators than the head guys. Shannon may be one of them.

Namor
02-13-2009, 10:00 AM
"Some people are just better off being coordinators than the head guys. Shannon may be one of them."

Bingo...we have a winner!

kpcane
02-13-2009, 02:13 PM
Paul Johnson is remarkable because he did so well this year with guys that didn't even fit his system. Butch Davis didn't have a lot to work when he got to UNC, and he's beaten us the last 2 seasons, so he must be doing something right.

I didn't realize that 7-5 now counted as a success at UM. My how times have changed.

It's not success at all! That's the point. You're using these other guys as examples when they've done the same things as us! Our losses are disappointments, not due to lack of talent. We beat Va Tech last year pretty badly, but UNC snuck one by us at the last second. We were dominating the majority of that game. There are going to be mental mistakes with young players/coaches. I expect this, but I also know that it's a great learning opportunity for them. You think Jacory's going to let another 2 minute disaster happen? So, it was probably a good thing that it happened at the Emerald Nuts Humanitarian Vegas Hawaii Bowl than in the Orange or Gator Bowl (which I expect us at this year).

kpcane
02-13-2009, 02:18 PM
Just for some perspective - can anybody name me a rookie head coach that came in to a talent depleted BCS school, and came in and had enormous success?

kpcane
02-13-2009, 05:31 PM
You're right. Some people just don't understand that there's a difference between what they call a "true fan" and then fans like you and I who have perspective and offer casual constructive criticism of the coaching staff and team. "True fan" thinks he's a true fan because he never criticizes the team even when it's warranted. "True fan" always drinks the Kool-Aid. It's ok to watch a game with some objective perspective.

That's a wild spin of what this thread is about. I just don't understand the Shannon criticism. Butch Davis didn't take Miami to a BCS game until his 6th and final year. Considering how Davis worked around some of the scholarship issues and the fact that we were in the Big East back then, I'd say that Shannon drew more of a challenge than Butch Davis did. I just don't see what the problem is in giving Shannon a chance with his players. He has his QB now, 2 veteran backs, a ton of talent at WR, and just enough talent everywhere else. O-line and secondary are still question marks until those guys can prove themselves, but other than that I'm expecting us to win the ACC this year. I'm not sure how that's drinking any kool-aid, I just have faith in guys like Jacory Harris who have been winners their whole lives, and Ray Ray Armstrong who has that toughness that you can' teach, and Arthur Brown who has talent you can't teach. I think some of you guys just might make college football out to be more like the NFL, where a team can be quickly turned around after one year. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I do have faith that Randy will get to the next level with these guys that he's brought in. If he can't do it with them, then he can't do it with anybody.

TedSlimmJr
02-13-2009, 05:50 PM
Just for some perspective - can anybody name me a rookie head coach that came in to a talent depleted BCS school, and came in and had enormous success?

Houston Nutt just did it at Ole Miss...he wasn't a rookie head coach..but..

Make no mistake...those guys received the best coaching I saw in all of college football last year...

Chris Peterson did it at Boise St...

Some fans don't neccessarily lack faith in Shannon because he was a rookie head coach in 2007...

It's because I don't think they see any improvement in him...

How could Randy Shannon have been the best candidate when he was hired? Just because he was a "U" lifer?

That right there is precisely more of where the problem lies...

dolfan94
02-13-2009, 06:04 PM
I dont think we'll need an excuse this year. With the #1 class in the country from last year maturing, and without the Mavre distraction, we should be good for CENTURIES to come

kpcane
02-13-2009, 06:07 PM
Yeah I'd say that 15 years of head coaching experience doesn't make you a rookie head coach. I'm sure Nutt is doing a great job at Ole Miss. He has a pretty good QB and that's where it all starts. But he also knows the ins and outs of being a head coach. He wasn't born that way, but through time he's become one of the better coaches.
Chris Peterson has done an outstanding job at Boise St. It's not a BCS conference, but he has done a great job there. Considering they lost their last two bowl games though (Hawaii and Poinsettia) puts some things into perspective though.
I have seen improvement in Randy. For example, the late season swoon started later this year, lol. He's decided to pick the right guys as his coordinators rather than the quick choices.
I think Randy was the right candidate. I think being a U lifer had a lot to do with it. But let's turn it around and why don't you tell me who you thought would have been a better candidate?

TedSlimmJr
02-13-2009, 06:17 PM
Nutt made Snead a good QB...he'd never started a game of college football before...

I think another one of the issues is nobody really wants that job anymore...it's not what it used to be...

Randy Shannon REALLY wanted the job...so maybe he was the best candidate in that respect...but from a qualifications standpoint...I don't think so...

Hiring from within when the program was in the shape it was could never be the best option IMO..

Jimbo Fisher, Rich Rodriguez or Greg Schiano come to mind....I believe Schiano was interviewed and turned it down, correct?

kpcane
02-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Nutt made Snead a good QB...he'd never started a game of college football before...

I think another one of the issues is nobody really wants that job anymore...it's not what it used to be...

Randy Shannon REALLY wanted the job...so maybe he was the best candidate in that respect...but from a qualifications standpoint...I don't think so...

Hiring from within when the program was in the shape it was could never be the best option IMO..

Jimbo Fisher, Rich Rodriguez or Greg Schiano come to mind....I believe Schiano was interviewed and turned it down, correct?

I'm not sure if I'd go that far with Snead. True he never started a game, but he did have some experience, especially in the Kansas State game. It's not like he was a true freshman or anything.

You can't really bring up guys that didn't want the job, because they aren't really candidates for the job. Greg Schiano was awful with Rutgers when he first got there. I think like 4 years and 3 wins or something like that? Being a head coach isn't as easy as people think. But I think if we give Randy that chance, he could be one of the great college coaches. You just can't expect national championships this soon. And though I expect is to win the conference this year, I don't think it's fair to expect that this early on either.

chrisbaucom
02-13-2009, 11:45 PM
Ole Miss and Boise St. were far from talent depleted. Ed Orgeron and Dan Hawkins both left there schools with a bunch of talent.

I don't drink the Shannon Kool-Aid, just think it's a little early for this thread. Spring ball hasn't even started.

With all the Shannon bashing....who really thought the 2007 or 2008 teams were really going to be that good. Coker ran the ship into the ground, so I give him a pass for 07. 2008 showed small improvement, not much, but small. If this year isn't a minimum of 9-3 with a chance to win the ACC, I will be the first one to say you're right Cedarphin!

CedarPhin
02-14-2009, 12:05 AM
I'm not even trying to be right. I want to see us succeed like anyone else, but I haven't seen anything that really makes me feel confident in it.

This thread is for the excuses people will make if we don't win/get to the ACC title game this year, instead of admitting that maybe Shannon's not cut out to do the job.

I can see the schedule becoming #1 already.

JCane
02-14-2009, 05:29 PM
When I think of "drinking the Kool-Aid" I think of fans who will never find fault in offensive or defensive philosophies. That's drinking the Kool-Aid. I supported Patrick Nix, but I didn't agree with his philosophy and because of that, some "true fans" decided that I wasn't a "true fan." Based on their "definition" I am not.

I come from a background where we work hard and strive for results. I want that out of my football team as well. And Patrick Nix continued to be conservative, try to beat very good defenses with dink and dunk passes, he rarely attacked downfield, and he put himself in terrible down-and-distance situations on 50% of his drives. That's not getting the job done. That's not working hard.

I'm expecting us to win the ACC this season. That's not me drinking any Kool-Aid, this is a legit expectation. As you said, kpcane, Shannon has two veteran running backs and one leader at quarterback. We should see more consistency in the offense under one quarterback. It'll be interesting to watch the Spring Game to see where the offense and defense satnd.

I don't think anyone is going to be satisfied with the results of the Spring Game. We're all hoping for an offensive explosion. If we get this in the Spring Game, it will be overlooked because many will criticize the defnese and immediately begin to roast the Lovett hire because a lot of the big name boosters do not like the Lovett hire. I don't think it's a great hire, but I understand why he was the hire.

On the other hand, if the defense locks it down, we will then be in the same boat emotionally as we were with Patrick Nix. "Nothing has change. Here comes another mediocre offense. Shannon needs to go. Whipple isn't what we though. He's an NFL lifer. We should have gotten Malzahn and ran the spread when we had the chance. Waiting a month to make a hire was a huge mistake. What's Tuberville doing right now."

That's what it will be at the conclusion of the Spring Game. No one will be happy and everyone will have a warped opinion. I'm not looking for offensive explosions, and I'm not looking for shutdown defense. What I'm looking for when I get to Dolphin Stadium is improvement in all three phases. I don't want to see missed tackles. I don't want to see daylight between our receivers and secondary. I don't want to see defensive lineman chasing Jacory all day. I don't want to see Jacory staring receivers down. I want to see fundamental improvements and I believe we will be fine.

Yes, the schedule is a concern. Yes, it will become an excuse. But it doesn't matter how you arrange that schedule, we knew what teams we were playing this season. You can't look at the schedule and chalk up four losses on paper before Mark Whipple and John Lovett are properly introduced and shake hands. We will play Florida State tight on Labor Day. It's a rivalry game and we always play them tight. LSU laid the blueprint on how to beat Redneck Tech. If Shannon is smart, he'll figure that out. Virginia Tech were the ACC champions and we did a very good job of handling them and their defense in Miami about four months ago. Why are we scared? You take your schedule week by week and your focus and you prepare. A well prepared team will show you something good. Alabama is a prime example.

TedSlimm, good call with Houston Nutt but Ole Miss did improve at the end of the 2007 season and he wasn't left as stripped as Shannon was after Coker bolted. And outside of Miami, Jevan Snead is my favorite player. I love that kid. I've got a lot of respect for him and he was heavily recruited by Texas and Florida. He actually committed to Florida and later decommitted after he found out that Urban Meyer was also recruiting Tim Tebow. Meyer lied to Snead and said that he was recruiting Tebow as a linebacker. Snead is an incredible talent and probably the most underrated player in college football. And yes, Schiano was interviewed and he did in fact turn the job down. Barry Alvarez was also a name being thrown around and that's the guy I really wanted but I knew it would never happen. Barry and Miami President Donna Shalala have been very close friends for many many years and when Alvarez left Wisconsin on his own terms, I immediately began driving the Official Barry Alvarez bandwagon lol. Spurrier was also a name tossed around but that kind of upset a lot of boosters and I don't think it ever would have happened considering his background at Florida. Bernie Kosar was also interviewed but that was just a courtesy interview. Kind of like Patrick Nix being interviewed for the Auburn head coaching job.

BorisOnAMobile
02-20-2009, 10:15 PM
"We do have a lot of Freshman playing and starting. Maybe not anymore than Florida State but certainly more than Florida...at least at the key playmaking positions. Great teams like Florida with a Senior quarterback can get away with starting a Freshman lineman and maybe a Freshman receiver. Miami can't. Not with Jacory Harris. Florida State can't. Not with Christian Ponder. At least not now. Maybe midway thru the 2009 season or next year we'll seem some gains with Harris and Ponder. But I will say that I was very impressed with Jacory Harris and how he handled himself against Cal in a game we were supposed to get rolled in." NOT TRUE just to clear the record, in 2008 Marve was considered a freshman. Truth is he was a redshirt freshman meaning he was in his second year at Miami in 2008. In 2008 the number of true freshmen/redshirt freshman/true sophmores in the starting lineup for Florida was 9. I understand the Canes had reserves who were getting playing time that fit the above mentioned 2nd year at the program or less category but, Its not like they were the only team in the state with young players. Fla had players like Matt Patchan, Jeff Demps, Deonte Thompson, Will Hill and Justin Trattou that werent starters but had been playing throughout the season, not just in blowouts. Just another note Ponder was a redshirt sophmore and Jacory has to assume some not all blame for that 2 minute drill/blunder against CAL. Nix deserved 55% of the blame, Shannon 30% and Harris 15%. This has nothing to do with this debate but a lot of people think Miami will start 0-4 this season but i dont think that will happen. I think GT and OU are losses but VT always starts the season slow, doesnt have a high scoring offense and barring rain the weather should be good. The FSU game is tough but playing it in the first week of the season actually benefits the 09 Canes. All the labor day meetings between Miami and FSU were low scoring games where both teams did not look ready for such a big game that early. FSU's offense looked better than Miami last season and ended the year better, but the first game of the season against a non D1AA or smaller D1 team usually means less scoring for any team. That is something that favors Miami in 09. Being it will be the first game of the year the Canes fans should travel in large numbers to Doak as opposed to that game being in week 5. I think its a toss up but i think Miami will be 2-2 after 4 games at worst 1-3. Miami schedule softens every week after week 4 ( not saying that they have a weak schedule in 09 ) and i think theyll be 6-6 or 7-5 after 12 games.

CedarPhin
02-21-2009, 05:32 AM
Anyway, we'll have to have a prediction thread.

Maybe I'll put one up after the Spring Game.

JCane
02-22-2009, 06:10 PM
"We do have a lot of Freshman playing and starting. Maybe not anymore than Florida State but certainly more than Florida...at least at the key playmaking positions. Great teams like Florida with a Senior quarterback can get away with starting a Freshman lineman and maybe a Freshman receiver. Miami can't. Not with Jacory Harris. Florida State can't. Not with Christian Ponder. At least not now. Maybe midway thru the 2009 season or next year we'll seem some gains with Harris and Ponder. But I will say that I was very impressed with Jacory Harris and how he handled himself against Cal in a game we were supposed to get rolled in." NOT TRUE just to clear the record, in 2008 Marve was considered a freshman. Truth is he was a redshirt freshman meaning he was in his second year at Miami in 2008. In 2008 the number of true freshmen/redshirt freshman/true sophmores in the starting lineup for Florida was 9. I understand the Canes had reserves who were getting playing time that fit the above mentioned 2nd year at the program or less category but, Its not like they were the only team in the state with young players. Fla had players like Matt Patchan, Jeff Demps, Deonte Thompson, Will Hill and Justin Trattou that werent starters but had been playing throughout the season, not just in blowouts. Just another note Ponder was a redshirt sophmore and Jacory has to assume some not all blame for that 2 minute drill/blunder against CAL. Nix deserved 55% of the blame, Shannon 30% and Harris 15%. This has nothing to do with this debate but a lot of people think Miami will start 0-4 this season but i dont think that will happen. I think GT and OU are losses but VT always starts the season slow, doesnt have a high scoring offense and barring rain the weather should be good. The FSU game is tough but playing it in the first week of the season actually benefits the 09 Canes. All the labor day meetings between Miami and FSU were low scoring games where both teams did not look ready for such a big game that early. FSU's offense looked better than Miami last season and ended the year better, but the first game of the season against a non D1AA or smaller D1 team usually means less scoring for any team. That is something that favors Miami in 09. Being it will be the first game of the year the Canes fans should travel in large numbers to Doak as opposed to that game being in week 5. I think its a toss up but i think Miami will be 2-2 after 4 games at worst 1-3. Miami schedule softens every week after week 4 ( not saying that they have a weak schedule in 09 ) and i think theyll be 6-6 or 7-5 after 12 games.

Very true. Like I said, we may not have had more Freshman playing and starting but we certainly had more playing and starting than Florida...at least at the key playmaking positions.

Read all of that.

Playmaking positions: Miami quarterback, Redshirt Freshman, Robert Marve compared to Florida quarterback, Junior and Heisman trophy winner, Tim Tebow.

Aldarius Johnson and Travis Benjamin. Both wide receivers. Both True Freshman compared to Florida Senior wide receiver Louis Murphy, and Junior Percy Harvin.

Sean Spence, Tue Freshman middle linebacker compared to Florida middle linebacker, Junior Brandon Spikes.

At key playmaking positions, the only position that was truly equal was at running back. Graig Cooper(Sophomore) and Javarris James(Junior), compared to Emmanuel Moody(Sophomore) and Brandon James(Junior). Although, I will credit Florida for giving two Freshman, Chris Rainey and Jeffrey Demps, quality playing time.

And Robert Marve may have been a Redshirt Freshman, but so what? It was still his first year taking snaps in college football. God knows that gutterball didn't take any in 2007 with a bum hand.

Deonte Thompson might be a True Freshman, but he didn't see near the playing time that Aldarius Johnson, LaRon Byrd, or Travis Benjamin saw. Why? Because of Senior Louis Murphy and Junior Percy Harvin. Deonte Thompson had 18 receptions. Johnson, Benjamin, and Byrd all had at least 18 catches as well...but from a Redshirt Freshman quarterback—not a former Heisman trophy winner such as Tim Tebow.

And yes, this is a brutal schedule. I believe we beat FSU only because there seems to be a trade-off pattern as of late. We won in 2007. They won in 2008, etc. Silly reason, yes, but I'll stick by it. Georgia Tech is up in the air but I believe if Randy Shannon is smart, he will pick up the blueprint laid by Les Miles. Against Virginia Tech is always a dog fight but this time it's in Blacksburg. Still, the same Hurricane team had it's way with the Hokies this past season up until the final quarter or so of play. There's no reason why we can't perform at the same level again—especially with a few extra days of rest. Oklahoma...let's move on.