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View Full Version : Duke Robinson Should be pick # 25



uga3406
02-10-2009, 04:43 PM
Taking Robinson would be a great move. Who knows what the phins will do during free agencey, but having a the core of Long,Smiley,Satele,Carey hopefully resigned and Robinson being drafted it would make sense. No one knows how good Donald Thomas will be, why wait around to find out if he is any good. He could be an insurance policy to Smiley. Robinson is listed at 6'5-344 pounds. That is a big boy and maybe the right size for tuna. Also consider that most of the best nose tackles will be gone by 25. Ron Brace from BC might be a option in the 2nd or 3rd. It would just make this team better. We could use our 2nd round picks on defense depending what will do in the free agent market.

phinfan33
02-10-2009, 05:04 PM
i'm all for getting him with our 1st rd pick...him&Long together side by side would be NASTY and our RB's would have holes for days to run through...

studsatele
02-10-2009, 05:55 PM
in my best lil john voice.........Yeeeeeaaaaaaayyyaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

RealDriscoll
02-10-2009, 05:59 PM
He could only play Right guard in our Offense so I think that would be a terrible pick. I think the pick will be one of these following 4 players.. Max Unger, Hakeem Nicks, Larry English, or Clint Sintim

RealDriscoll
02-10-2009, 06:00 PM
Donald Thomas is going to be a Pro-Bowl Right Guard. I'd rather have him than Duke

phinfan33
02-10-2009, 06:08 PM
He could only play Right guard in our Offense so I think that would be a terrible pick. I think the pick will be one of these following 4 players.. Max Unger, Hakeem Nicks, Larry English, or Clint Sintim
why do you say that? he played LG for Oklahoma...

#1dolphinsfan
02-10-2009, 07:24 PM
i would love to have Duke Robinson

skipp2myloo13
02-10-2009, 07:30 PM
LB will be the first pick IMO, just too big of a need.

skipp2myloo13
02-10-2009, 07:31 PM
center also would be a better pick imo, because it give us a center-Mack, Wood, Caldwell ect. and a good gaurd in Satele

MrEd
02-10-2009, 07:31 PM
Taking Robinson would be a great move. Who knows what the phins will do during free agencey, but having a the core of Long,Smiley,Satele,Carey hopefully resigned and Robinson being drafted it would make sense. No one knows how good Donald Thomas will be, why wait around to find out if he is any good. He could be an insurance policy to Smiley. Robinson is listed at 6'5-344 pounds. That is a big boy and maybe the right size for tuna. Also consider that most of the best nose tackles will be gone by 25. Ron Brace from BC might be a option in the 2nd or 3rd. It would just make this team better. We could use our 2nd round picks on defense depending what will do in the free agent market.

Nah, that is just throwing Thomas away. We need to either kill two birds with one stone by drafting Eben Britton...which will not only move Carey in to RG, but provide the MIA OL with another OT, which is where we are scarce at behing Long and Carey.... or they should go ahead and select Max Unger or Alex Mack that would move Satele to the bench, or replace Thomas, should he be a bust, as you are worried of...

uga3406
02-10-2009, 07:32 PM
Donald Thomas is going to be a Pro-Bowl Right Guard. I'd rather have him than Duke

no one knows for sure what Thomas will turn out to be. I think Robinson is going to be a good one for years to come.

MrEd
02-10-2009, 07:34 PM
no one knows for sure what Thomas will turn out to be. I think Robinson is going to be a good one for years to come.

Robinson has just as much, if not more, "no one knows for sure" being that he is a rookie, not even drafted yet.

At least Thomas has played in an NFL game and had a whole preseason and TC. Duke has not.

uga3406
02-10-2009, 07:55 PM
Robinson has just as much, if not more, "no one knows for sure" being that he is a rookie, not even drafted yet.

At least Thomas has played in an NFL game and had a whole preseason and TC. Duke has not.

I hear what your saying but did everyone onwo that Langford would be good? or that Bell a 7th round pick himself would become soo good..there are no guarantees, it is all blind faith. I am willing to give Satele a 2nd chance because of his torn laborn injury maybe add 15 pounds or so....I wouldnt be upset if they toke an offensive lineman with the 1st pick i just rather it be Robinson..

studsatele
02-10-2009, 08:43 PM
Why would that be throwing Thomas away?? We have no idea how Smiley will return. Reports can say whatever but no one knows. Besides, isnt rg Smileys natural position? Now. Me myself i feel we cant go wrong in the draft. Unless we pick an area of obvious strength. Lt,Qb,Rb,De,Te,. Lg is not one of them. Lb, secondary, o line, nose. Any one would be perfectly acceptable to me. Now this is obviously imo. The fecta could completly see things 180 of me. There is alot of players on boths sides id have no problems picking and big Duke sure as shootin is one of them.

phinfan33
02-10-2009, 08:48 PM
Why would that be throwing Thomas away?? We have no idea how Smiley will return. Reports can say whatever but no one knows. Besides, isnt rg Smileys natural position? Now. Me myself i feel we cant go wrong in the draft. Unless we pick an area of obvious strength. Lt,Qb,Rb,De,Te,. Lg is not one of them. Lb, secondary, o line, nose. Any one would be perfectly acceptable to me. Now this is obviously imo. The fecta could completly see things 180 of me. There is alot of players on boths sides id have no problems picking and big Duke sure as shootin is one of them.
you've told me this before brother man,and i'm inclined to agree with you,but Big Duke and Big Jake side by side would sure look good on our OL...

skipp2myloo13
02-10-2009, 09:13 PM
i rather get Mack adn move satele to depth/gaurd. Mack is jake long in a Center. i heard his interview. o man i want this kid. i would love if he fell a little whcih he wont,and get english and Mack. im sorry, i hate pipe dreams

Boomer
02-11-2009, 04:14 PM
Robinson doesn't move very well and struggles maintaining balance blocking in space. He tends to lead with his head and bend at the waist. With mobility needed at LG in our scheme, he'd only be a RG as someone plageurised.

ChambersWI
02-11-2009, 04:26 PM
where did this Duke Robinson love come from? Seriously. He's a great college player (as is teammate Phil Loadholt), but they were HUGE. Big 12 defensive fronts were not that big. Duke also was awful against Florida.

Boomer
02-11-2009, 04:31 PM
Well, he's a tremendous interior scrapper, with great hands, playing and dominating at the highest level. In the right system, the cat can play.

TedSlimmJr
02-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Well, he's a tremendous interior scrapper, with great hands, playing and dominating at the highest level. In the right system, the cat can play.


That's right....

...particularly a system like Miami's...

ckparrothead
02-11-2009, 04:34 PM
Andre Smith is the top Guard prospect in this draft.

ChambersWI
02-11-2009, 04:35 PM
so I'm gonna guess that you have Monroe as the top OT CK? or are you more of a Jason Smith fan?

SamIam
02-11-2009, 04:54 PM
I for one would love to have Duke with #25

I think he is a great talent and would be a great fit at left Guard next to Jake

TedSlimmJr
02-11-2009, 05:19 PM
Andre Smith is the top Guard prospect in this draft.

Bingo...

BTW...is that the order in which you like the players at #25, or that list in no particular order?

ckparrothead
02-11-2009, 05:24 PM
No particular order. Might add Michael Johnson to my list soon.

TedSlimmJr
02-11-2009, 05:31 PM
No particular order. Might add Michael Johnson to my list soon.

Interesting...would you drop someone in favor of Johnson?

Does the fact that Johnson only started his senior season concern you at all?

Or that he disappears too often?

His upside is significant...easily worth the #25 spot....but I have yet to buy into Johnson being worth a top 15 pick....

ckparrothead
02-11-2009, 05:42 PM
so I'm gonna guess that you have Monroe as the top OT CK? or are you more of a Jason Smith fan?

Great question. Honestly I have a great feel on Monroe but I don't have a great feel for Jason Smith yet, and so I still can't answer that decisively. But, one of those two, definitely. Never bought into the Andre Smith story as a premier Left Tackle prospect. I've been very reticent about Michael Oher as well.

But Eben Britton has the talent to deserve to be talked about with any of those other guys, is a better tackle prospect than Andre Smith, though if you consider Smith a guard and Britton a tackle, that becomes a more difficult question as to which would be more valuable...my feeling is still Britton.

JT-forpresident
02-11-2009, 05:58 PM
you have to put jamon meredith as one of the best OTs that will be available when miami speaks... but overrall, i agree with you CK, monroe and J.smith are 1 and 1a, andre does not belong there

ckparrothead
02-11-2009, 06:19 PM
Interesting...would you drop someone in favor of Johnson?

Does the fact that Johnson only started his senior season concern you at all?

Or that he disappears too often?

His upside is significant...easily worth the #25 spot....but I have yet to buy into Johnson being worth a top 15 pick....

We probably have different ideas, you and me, about just what a #25 overall pick is really worth. To me, I can't help but think it's only a few spots above the Phil Merling pick.

I don't know if you go into the mindset thinking you'll get a premium player at that pick, looking for a guy that has all of the perfect qualities, etc.

Michael Johnson, to me, is very similar to Clay Matthews. But Matthews is more popular because he's seen as the overachiever, while Johnson is seen as the underachiever. When Johnson finally started as a senior, it was like...FINALLY. When Matthews started as a senior, it was like...whoa, that special teams guy can play football! It's more of a positive feeling.

You have to challenge that mindset, IMO. If we're presupposing that Clay Matthews truly has NFL talent, then he has, for most of his USC career, been easily as big an underachiever as Michael Johnson. Both guys are, physically speaking, late bloomers. Personally, I have my questions (but no answers) about how Clay Matthews achieved that late bloom. He was a physically uncompelling prospect coming out of high school that suddenly seemed to gain a lot of size and explosion toward the end of his schooling. Johnson was always physically compelling, always had natural talent, quickness, strength and speed, but he never had the stamina to start or play full games, and was always plagued with cramps during games.

And when you compare their senior seasons, statistically Johnson has him hands down. Nearly as many tackles, more sacks, more tackles for loss, as many forced fumbles, as many blocked kicks, more interceptions, far more passes defensed, etc. This coming in a pretty balanced ACC conference while also playing SEC teams like Georgia and Mississippi State, as opposed to the pass-happy PAC-10. And teams knew who Michael Johnson was BEFORE the season started, they didn't have guys like Rey Maualuga, Brian Cushing and Fili Moala to key on while the newcomer was free to do his thing.

The other thing I like about Michael Johnson is that even though his consistency is NOT there, the diversity of his game IS there. He has shown the pure ability to be physically and technically dominant in just about every aspect you would want him to be as a pro. He rushes successfully from the left and from the right. He has made plays on the strong side and on the weak side. He's put on an outside speed rush that has Eugene Monroe grasping at air. He's used the swim move to the outside in order to make Quinton Saulsberry his ****** for play after play after play. He's put the inside move and bull rush successfully on former high recruit Anthony Costonzo of Boston College. He's kept his hands extended, he's laid wood on quarterbacks, he's dropped back fluidly into zone coverage and used his tremendous length and leaping ability to knock down passes and create interceptions. He's set the edge in run defense and come off blocks to make plays on the ball carrier, behind and at the line of scrimmage. His size and speed create great closing presence on the ball and make him very hard to get around. He's jumped sky-high to block a kick. He's redirected on his feet, cutting in the open field to make the tackle on the ball carrier.

It's easy to forget that consistency is something every single one of these guys need to work on, some more than others. Also a pro body and stamina is something every one of these guys needs to work on. But not every guy shows the ability to literally do everything.

So, he goes on the list.

ArmyFin7
02-11-2009, 06:22 PM
Wow, well thought out CK, I like it. I'm not a fan of Mathews anywhere before the 2nd.

ckparrothead
02-11-2009, 06:32 PM
you have to put jamon meredith as one of the best OTs that will be available when miami speaks... but overrall, i agree with you CK, monroe and J.smith are 1 and 1a, andre does not belong there

This, I think I would disagree with. I'm not sure how I feel about taking an OT prospect that you know will be a RT and not a LT, as high as #25. I'm of the belief, like Sparano, that if you can play Left Tackle, you can play Right Tackle, but not necessarily the other way around. Therefore guys that you know can't play Left Tackle, more often than not, they should be rated below guys that you think might be able to play Left Tackle.

But, he also might not be there at #44. So, who knows. I have William Beatty higher right now, for the reasons I stated above.

TedSlimmJr
02-11-2009, 06:49 PM
We probably have different ideas, you and me, about just what a #25 overall pick is really worth. To me, I can't help but think it's only a few spots above the Phil Merling pick.

I don't know if you go into the mindset thinking you'll get a premium player at that pick, looking for a guy that has all of the perfect qualities, etc.

Michael Johnson, to me, is very similar to Clay Matthews. But Matthews is more popular because he's seen as the overachiever, while Johnson is seen as the underachiever. When Johnson finally started as a senior, it was like...FINALLY. When Matthews started as a senior, it was like...whoa, that special teams guy can play football! It's more of a positive feeling.

You have to challenge that mindset, IMO. If we're presupposing that Clay Matthews truly has NFL talent, then he has, for most of his USC career, been easily as big an underachiever as Michael Johnson. Both guys are, physically speaking, late bloomers. Personally, I have my questions (but no answers) about how Clay Matthews achieved that late bloom. He was a physically uncompelling prospect coming out of high school that suddenly seemed to gain a lot of size and explosion toward the end of his schooling. Johnson was always physically compelling, always had natural talent, quickness, strength and speed, but he never had the stamina to start or play full games, and was always plagued with cramps during games.

And when you compare their senior seasons, statistically Johnson has him hands down. Nearly as many tackles, more sacks, more tackles for loss, as many forced fumbles, as many blocked kicks, more interceptions, far more passes defensed, etc. This coming in a pretty balanced ACC conference while also playing SEC teams like Georgia and Mississippi State, as opposed to the pass-happy PAC-10. And teams knew who Michael Johnson was BEFORE the season started, they didn't have guys like Rey Maualuga, Brian Cushing and Fili Moala to key on while the newcomer was free to do his thing.

The other thing I like about Michael Johnson is that even though his consistency is NOT there, the diversity of his game IS there. He has shown the pure ability to be physically and technically dominant in just about every aspect you would want him to be as a pro. He rushes successfully from the left and from the right. He has made plays on the strong side and on the weak side. He's put on an outside speed rush that has Eugene Monroe grasping at air. He's used the swim move to the outside in order to make Quinton Saulsberry his ****** for play after play after play. He's put the inside move and bull rush successfully on former high recruit Anthony Costonzo of Boston College. He's kept his hands extended, he's laid wood on quarterbacks, he's dropped back fluidly into zone coverage and used his tremendous length and leaping ability to knock down passes and create interceptions. He's set the edge in run defense and come off blocks to make plays on the ball carrier, behind and at the line of scrimmage. His size and speed create great closing presence on the ball and make him very hard to get around. He's jumped sky-high to block a kick. He's redirected on his feet, cutting in the open field to make the tackle on the ball carrier.

It's easy to forget that consistency is something every single one of these guys need to work on, some more than others. Also a pro body and stamina is something every one of these guys needs to work on. But not every guy shows the ability to literally do everything.

So, he goes on the list.


I don't view Clay Matthews as a first round prospect....if not for his versatility....he wouldn't even be considered in the first 2 rounds....

I don't think you go in with the mindset of looking for a player with all the perfect qualities at any pick...be it the #25 pick, or the 1st overall pick...because there isn't any....

You simply look for a player with the physical tools, talent, upside, attitude, work ethic, and football acumen that you are confident you can coach up...consistency, production, level of competition, etc.. determine the value of the prospect....not the pick itself...

I believe you draft for talent...period...I don't care what you already have at whatever position...the draft is the best way to acquire talent in the NFL...

I have my own philosophy on evaluating talent...and it consists of looking at every prospect in a negative light to begin with...and then letting the prospect prove himself, or relieve certain question marks through the evaluation process...

Michael Johnson most certainly has big play ability....and as I stated previously...his upside makes him worth the #25 pick if he were available...but he should be much better than he is at this point because of his talents...

I think the #25 pick is usually good for getting the best player at a certain position....usually an interior lineman, TE, safety, or in some cases....a wide receiver....

There are obviously prospects in any given draft that are more hype than substance....conversely...there are also some that are more substance than hype...

If you draft horizontally (as Ireland spoke of) according to your draft board....then you're likely to take the highest rated player at their respective position...

Johnson is my 5th rated DE at the moment...not worth passing up the #1, or #2 rated player at another position...

Boomer
02-12-2009, 06:37 AM
Andre Smith is the top Guard prospect in this draft.


Yep. Can't disagree with that.

uga3406
02-14-2009, 01:20 AM
I don't view Clay Matthews as a first round prospect....if not for his versatility....he wouldn't even be considered in the first 2 rounds....

I don't think you go in with the mindset of looking for a player with all the perfect qualities at any pick...be it the #25 pick, or the 1st overall pick...because there isn't any....

You simply look for a player with the physical tools, talent, upside, attitude, work ethic, and football acumen that you are confident you can coach up...consistency, production, level of competition, etc.. determine the value of the prospect....not the pick itself...

I believe you draft for talent...period...I don't care what you already have at whatever position...the draft is the best way to acquire talent in the NFL...

I have my own philosophy on evaluating talent...and it consists of looking at every prospect in a negative light to begin with...and then letting the prospect prove himself, or relieve certain question marks through the evaluation process...

Michael Johnson most certainly has big play ability....and as I stated previously...his upside makes him worth the #25 pick if he were available...but he should be much better than he is at this point because of his talents...

I think the #25 pick is usually good for getting the best player at a certain position....usually an interior lineman, TE, safety, or in some cases....a wide receiver....

There are obviously prospects in any given draft that are more hype than substance....conversely...there are also some that are more substance than hype...

If you draft horizontally (as Ireland spoke of) according to your draft board....then you're likely to take the highest rated player at their respective position...

Johnson is my 5th rated DE at the moment...not worth passing up the #1, or #2 rated player at another position...


Im not sold on Johnson at 25 but what if he was there at 44 (redskins pick) would u take him? also would he still be there at that spot?

DevereauxWilson
02-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Would Johnson bulk up and play DE or would he be moved to OLB?

TedSlimmJr
02-14-2009, 01:25 PM
Im not sold on Johnson at 25 but what if he was there at 44 (redskins pick) would u take him? also would he still be there at that spot?

First of all, I can't see Johnson being available at that spot...

Secondly, if there is a higher rated safety or cornerback, etc. available at that pick...I think I would go in that direction...

Miami's secondary is it's oldest unit...

TedSlimmJr
02-14-2009, 01:30 PM
Would Johnson bulk up and play DE or would he be moved to OLB?

I think NFL GM's are asking themselves the same question...

Johnson will surely be put through the ringer in LB drills at the combine to get a more accurate assessment of his abilities to drop back into coverage, lateral movement, changing directions, etc., etc....

Johnson possesses the athletic ability to play wherever he needs to IMO...

The issue is he's more of a finesse player than a stack-and-shed type defensive lineman...

hooshoops
02-14-2009, 03:40 PM
i'd pass on johnson at #25. andre smith now that i would not pass. he reminds me of vernon carey. a guy who can play right tackle but would be an all pro guard.

i'd take andre smith b4 duke robinson if i was looking for a guard in the first round. no doubt.

i'd just be surprised to see him still on the board at #25.

hooshoops
02-14-2009, 03:49 PM
i will, however, say that larry english is gaining momentum for me. has a lamar woodley look to him. not sure if he's as strong as woodley with the bullrush. woodley walks the tackle 5 yards into the backfield all the time.

how the heck did that guy last til the second round???

TedSlimmJr
02-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Being a shade under 6-2 and slow afoot attributed to Woodley not grading out as a 1st round pick...

Also, going from rushing with his hand on the ground as a strongside DE to linebacker was obviously a projection..

finfaninmo
02-14-2009, 08:05 PM
Take Duke Robinson with the 25th pick, resign Vernon Carey, and sign
Jason Brown. to go along with Smiley and Jake Long. This would give
us a O line for the next five years.

TheBow305
02-14-2009, 09:24 PM
We need a center, not a guard. So I say NO to Robinson. I love him as a player, but we don't need him.