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View Full Version : God sends a sign through a derriere groove?



ih8brady
03-17-2009, 10:53 AM
Do most Christians really believe this stuff? Is there any actual orthodxy or basis in the belief that Jesus sends code messages through grilled cheese sandwiches or doors or insects or guitars?



http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25189423-5012765,00.html




THOUSANDS of people have flocked to a Roman Catholic church on the French Indian Ocean island of Reunion after believers said they saw the "face of Christ" in the pleats of a church cushion...


"This is not a miracle, it's a sign of God," said parish priest Daniel Gavard.

SpurzN703
03-17-2009, 11:44 AM
What kind of a sign is it when "God's face" in on a seat cushion? What is that supposed to be telling us?

PhinPhan1227
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
No, I don't think most Christians believe in that stuff. Just as most people who believe that there is life on other planets don't also believe that Elvis is alive and well on one of them. Why do people feel the need to ascribe the behavior of the fringe to the masses? I know it's a way of marginalizing those you disagree with, but seriously, lets use some common sense here people.

ih8brady
03-17-2009, 05:16 PM
No, I don't think most Christians believe in that stuff. Just as most people who believe that there is life on other planets don't also believe that Elvis is alive and well on one of them. Why do people feel the need to ascribe the behavior of the fringe to the masses? I know it's a way of marginalizing those you disagree with, but seriously, lets use some common sense here people.


Using lots of assumptions also marginalizes those you disagree with. :rolleyes2: I just hear about these "signs from God" once in awhile and was curious about what the average Christian thought about it and the people on the board. That's why I asked the question instead of making a statement.

If it was marginalizing, it would be along the lines of "Christianity is ridiculous because it says God/Jesus/Saint___ appears on a sandwich." But to the best of my knowledge, there is no biblical backing to such claims and most of the Christians I know never believed in it, so I was curious what Chrisitians who discuss on this sub-forum thought of it.

SpurzN703
03-17-2009, 05:17 PM
No, I don't think most Christians believe in that stuff. Just as most people who believe that there is life on other planets don't also believe that Elvis is alive and well on one of them. Why do people feel the need to ascribe the behavior of the fringe to the masses? I know it's a way of marginalizing those you disagree with, but seriously, lets use some common sense here people.

Can one use common sense and religion simultaneously?

PhinPhan1227
03-18-2009, 03:42 AM
Using lots of assumptions also marginalizes those you disagree with. :rolleyes2: I just hear about these "signs from God" once in awhile and was curious about what the average Christian thought about it and the people on the board. That's why I asked the question instead of making a statement.

If it was marginalizing, it would be along the lines of "Christianity is ridiculous because it says God/Jesus/Saint___ appears on a sandwich." But to the best of my knowledge, there is no biblical backing to such claims and most of the Christians I know never believed in it, so I was curious what Chrisitians who discuss on this sub-forum thought of it.


If I was overly harsh in my response I apoligize. The flavor I got from the post seemed somewhat hostile to me and I responded as such. If that was not your intent, than I was in error.

That being said, it still stands that when we observe a fringe behavior from a small percentage of a group, when that group is not in line with our own beliefs, it's human nature to ascribe that behavior more widely to the overall group than it probably deserves. I should not however have implied that you were doing so.

Dolphan7
03-18-2009, 01:09 PM
Do most Christians really believe this stuff? Is there any actual orthodxy or basis in the belief that Jesus sends code messages through grilled cheese sandwiches or doors or insects or guitars?



http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25189423-5012765,00.htmlNo I don't believe in this type of stuff. I don't need to see images of God, Jesus , or the Virgin Mary. I connect with God on a daily basis through my relationship with Him when I pray, through the bible, how I live my life, how He works in my life etc....

These sightings are typically responded to by Catholics. Catholics believe in what is called "Continuing Revelation". That means that God still talks to the Pope, and still appears to people and... evidently..... implants his image onto the most bizare places!

There is no biblical basis for continuing revelation. It is derived from what the Catholics call the "Sacred Tradition", in which they equate it with the full authority of the "Sacred Scriptures" (the bible). It basically says there is the bible, and then anything the Catholic church declares as sacred tradition. In other words there is the bible, and anything we say is what we believe. They are saying that the bible isn't complete, and God continues to speak to us through the Catholic Church. Which is fine....as long as the Sacred Tradition doesn't contradict the bible. And there is where the argument begins because of the many issues Protestants feel the Catholic Church does indeed contradict the bible.

Examples of Sacred Tradition are: veneration of Mary, penance, indulgence, purgatory, prayer to saints.

So based on this it would naturally happen that these sightings would create quite a stir among the Catholic Faithful, yet not so much outside it's membership.

emeraldfin
03-18-2009, 01:37 PM
No I don't believe in this type of stuff. I don't need to see images of God, Jesus , or the Virgin Mary. I connect with God on a daily basis through my relationship with Him when I pray, through the bible, how I live my life, how He works in my life etc....

These sightings are typically responded to by Catholics. Catholics believe in what is called "Continuing Revelation". That means that God still talks to the Pope, and still appears to people and... evidently..... implants his image onto the most bizare places!

There is no biblical basis for continuing revelation. It is derived from what the Catholics call the "Sacred Tradition", in which they equate it with the full authority of the "Sacred Scriptures" (the bible). It basically says there is the bible, and then anything the Catholic church declares as sacred tradition. In other words there is the bible, and anything we say is what we believe. They are saying that the bible isn't complete, and God continues to speak to us through the Catholic Church. Which is fine....as long as the Sacred Tradition doesn't contradict the bible. And there is where the argument begins because of the many issues Protestants feel the Catholic Church does indeed contradict the bible.

Examples of Sacred Tradition are: veneration of Mary, penance, indulgence, purgatory, prayer to saints.

So based on this it would naturally happen that these sightings would create quite a stir among the Catholic Faithful, yet not so much outside it's membership.

Any chance to pick on those crazy Catholics eh D7 :lol:

Look, when people start reading the Bible they read of magical and miraculous stories. However when we look at the individualistic and technological world we live in today, miracles and divine revelation are very rare to come across. Fact is, people are looking for any shread of eschatological evidence that they will look for it anywhere. I see people every year climbing a rocky mountain BARE FOOTED because they think it will bring them closer to God. Thousands of people each year go on pilgrimages to places like Lourdes and Fatima, just so they can revel in the history and divinithy of what happend at those places.

People just want to feel closer to God or actually find something that will give them evidence. If people thing they can find that in someones *** print on a cushion then power to them.

Dolphan7
03-18-2009, 02:36 PM
Any chance to pick on those crazy Catholics eh D7 :lol:

Look, when people start reading the Bible they read of magical and miraculous stories. However when we look at the individualistic and technological world we live in today, miracles and divine revelation are very rare to come across. Fact is, people are looking for any shread of eschatological evidence that they will look for it anywhere. I see people every year climbing a rocky mountain BARE FOOTED because they think it will bring them closer to God. Thousands of people each year go on pilgrimages to places like Lourdes and Fatima, just so they can revel in the history and divinithy of what happend at those places.

People just want to feel closer to God or actually find something that will give them evidence. If people thing they can find that in someones *** print on a cushion then power to them.If stating facts about Catholicism is picking on them, then I guess I am picking on them.

You have to admit...when one of these sightings occurs....it is predominantly the Catholics who flock to them and think it is some Diety or sign from God. Their very own Sacred Tradition fosters such belief.

ih8brady
03-18-2009, 03:37 PM
If I was overly harsh in my response I apoligize. The flavor I got from the post seemed somewhat hostile to me and I responded as such. If that was not your intent, than I was in error.

That being said, it still stands that when we observe a fringe behavior from a small percentage of a group, when that group is not in line with our own beliefs, it's human nature to ascribe that behavior more widely to the overall group than it probably deserves. I should not however have implied that you were doing so.


I am not a believer and I do have a lot of my criticisms but I wasn't even trying to bring that into the thread at all. I was curious if this was something new or an old tradition I am unaware of or some scripture behind it or what/ It was basically just a survey. Kind of like when I first heard about snake handlers or people who hate Harry Potter. Is this phenomenon a fringe like those two trends or something more accepted? Since there are a lot of Christians, they would probably visit churches often or know more about Christian intricacies. Maybe even just someone who knew of a scientific poll taken by a news group.

I also dislike criticizing any ideology based on the behavior of a few of it's members that are irrelevant to the traditions or foundations of said ideology. It is an easy way out and weak, imo.


I understand you were mistaken and maybe my title seemed a bit mocking(I just thought derriere would grab people's attention more rather than words like pious, deity or paradoelia)

emeraldfin
03-20-2009, 12:37 PM
If stating facts about Catholicism is picking on them, then I guess I am picking on them.



All good natured D7



You have to admit...when one of these sightings occurs....it is predominantly the Catholics who flock to them and think it is some Diety or sign from God. Their very own Sacred Tradition fosters such belief.


No doubt about it D7, coming from a heavily Catholic background, hearing people flock to see these type of things does not surprise me in the slighest. But I noticed earlier you said you dont believe in all that stuff. But do you believe in sacred lands, stigmata, bleeding/weeping statues and sightings of heavenly apparitions?

Dolphan7
03-20-2009, 12:44 PM
All good natured D7



No doubt about it D7, coming from a heavily Catholic background, hearing people flock to see these type of things does not surprise me in the slighest. But I noticed earlier you said you dont believe in all that stuff. But do you believe in sacred lands, stigmata, bleeding/weeping statues and sightings of heavenly apparitions?Nope.

pumpingiron2k
03-20-2009, 02:23 PM
No all the signs given by God where given to us in the Bible. Remember the bible tells that Jesus said many will say "He is here". I think this is what He was warning us about. People claiming to see God in objects. I would like to pose this to everyone, how do we know the Jesus in the paintings is the face of Jesus? The Bible never once depicts His features. So for anyone to claim to see Jesus' face is only going by society's depiction of his features.

emeraldfin
03-20-2009, 05:05 PM
No all the signs given by God where given to us in the Bible. Remember the bible tells that Jesus said many will say "He is here". I think this is what He was warning us about. People claiming to see God in objects. I would like to pose this to everyone, how do we know the Jesus in the paintings is the face of Jesus? The Bible never once depicts His features. So for anyone to claim to see Jesus' face is only going by society's depiction of his features.

Your last point is very good but what I will say is who is to say that depiction is wrong?

Also the Bible is percieved by Christians in an eschatological sense, in that all of humanity is geared towards the coming of the kingdom. Because the Bible is extremely un-clear as to how or when we can expect the second coming of Christ. There is no harm in seeing these as signs of either his presence on earth or his message that he will return soon. It depends on what eschatological belief you take and there is many out there.

PhinPhan1227
03-21-2009, 01:45 PM
I am not a believer and I do have a lot of my criticisms but I wasn't even trying to bring that into the thread at all. I was curious if this was something new or an old tradition I am unaware of or some scripture behind it or what/ It was basically just a survey. Kind of like when I first heard about snake handlers or people who hate Harry Potter. Is this phenomenon a fringe like those two trends or something more accepted? Since there are a lot of Christians, they would probably visit churches often or know more about Christian intricacies. Maybe even just someone who knew of a scientific poll taken by a news group.

I also dislike criticizing any ideology based on the behavior of a few of it's members that are irrelevant to the traditions or foundations of said ideology. It is an easy way out and weak, imo.


I understand you were mistaken and maybe my title seemed a bit mocking(I just thought derriere would grab people's attention more rather than words like pious, deity or paradoelia)

The fact that these kids of stories are reported by the media as "look at what these crazy people think" should tell you how most Americans view them. First of all, every protestant denomination I have ever heard of denounces anything like this as idolytry. Thus making it not just silly, but heresy as well. As for the Catholics, they allow "images" of God, but even there, the vast majority of Catholics view anything but things like a joke. The Church itself recognizes VERY few "miracles", and all of those that I know of are decades old at least, and fall into the likes of statues of the virgin mary or Jesus that weep blood, that sort of thing. But again, those are very few and far between, and even then, only a tiny percentage of the Catholic faith actually put any belief in those instances.

The problem is, when you have a world Christian population in the billions, even a REALLY tiny percentage of that total number is still a LOT of people.