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Locke
03-22-2009, 01:21 AM
Anyone else seen this? Thoughts? I found it extremely interesting. I understand Maher is as left wing as you can get, and edited the documentary as such to prove his point, but he makes several good points through out I think....

Tetragrammaton
03-22-2009, 01:28 AM
I am a big fan of Bill Maher. I make sure to catch his show on Fridays, and I am seeing him live for the second time next month. However, I found the documentary to be a bore. At this point, they are such an easy target.

Locke
03-22-2009, 01:39 AM
I am a big fan of Bill Maher. I make sure to catch his show on Fridays, and I am seeing him live for the second time next month. However, I found the documentary to be a bore. At this point, they are such an easy target.

I'm a huge fan as well. If he ever came through Albuquerque, I'd make sure to go see him for sure.

I enjoyed how he ripped on all religions, not just Islam or Christianity. It really is eye-opening seeing the same common issues among all of them. The only thing I did have an issue with was how he painted Islam to be a violent religion. Islam is no more violent than any other, it just seems that way because Middle Eastern terrorists just so happen to claim to be Muslim. I did like how he didn't even have to say anything about Scientology to make it sound ridiculous, he just had to flash their teachings on screen...:lol:

Tetragrammaton
03-22-2009, 01:43 AM
I did like how he didn't even have to say anything about Scientology to make it sound ridiculous, he just had to flash their teachings on screen...:lol:

Maher has a bit about Scientologists. He explains the insanity of people that believe in talking snakes and great floods ridiculing Scientologists. Very funny, insightful stuff.

I just thought he could have done a lot better. I happen to think he has one of the best personality-driven news shows on television, and for most of the movie, he went for the cheap shots. Obviously a trucker is not going to be able to answer these questions. Obviously a Muslim British rapper who promotes murder is going to be brought down easily. I would have preferred he spent more time with the religious leaders, but his status obviously keeps that from happening, like it did at the Orlando park.

BobDole
03-22-2009, 02:57 AM
come on guys. this isn't serious discussion, is it? this is like tammy faye talking about evolution. i love bill maher but he is about as blasphemous as you can get.

Dolphan7
03-22-2009, 08:30 PM
I havn't seen the movie, but I know of Bill Maher. He is an Atheist, and makes a living making fun of religion.

I just have one thing to say to Bill Maher.......

......Eternity is a awful long time to be wrong.

WVDolphan
03-22-2009, 10:01 PM
I thought it was ****ing hillarious.

jared81
03-23-2009, 04:24 PM
I havn't seen the movie, but I know of Bill Maher. He is an Atheist, and makes a living making fun of religion.

I just have one thing to say to Bill Maher.......

......Eternity is a awful long time to be wrong.


good point....i have to laugh at people like him, they think their so smart and they got it all figured out. too bad the people that follow him are the ones obsessed with pop culture, and have the education of a 6th grader.

Tetragrammaton
03-23-2009, 11:39 PM
good point....i have to laugh at people like him, they think their so smart and they got it all figured out. too bad the people that follow him are the ones obsessed with pop culture, and have the education of a 6th grader.

Huh?

The whole point of Maher's film, and his religious routines in general, is that he does not know, unlike those that pretend they do.

Dolphan7
03-24-2009, 01:19 AM
Huh?

The whole point of Maher's film, and his religious routines in general, is that he does not know, unlike those that pretend they do.I'm pretending now?

Locke
03-24-2009, 01:48 AM
good point....i have to laugh at people like him, they think their so smart and they got it all figured out. too bad the people that follow him are the ones obsessed with pop culture, and have the education of a 6th grader.

I follow Bill Maher. I couldn't care less about pop culture, and I'm a graduate student.

Besides that, he doesn't claim to have it all figured out. He very openly admits he doesn't know. He is taking a very Socratic approach to the question of religion. He goes to people who claim to be experts, and asks them about it. Now that I've thrown out the term Socratic, I can draw a lot of parallels between him and Socrates on this topic. I know the outrage that's going to draw from people, comparing him to Socrates, but consider it:

They both have the same agenda. They both claimed that they don't know, and they go and challenge those who think they do. Granted Socrates did it out of curiosity, and Maher does it to prove his point.

Both are absolutely loved by their followers, and despised by the ones they are challenging. Maher would have been executed long ago had we been in a society similar to ancient Greece.

I just really enjoy how he goes and has people try to explain inconsistencies. I mean, he makes a good point. Do Christians really believe that a talking snake tempted Adam and Eve to take the apple? Did a man really live in the belly of a whale? Do Mormons really believe all that bullsh*t about Joseph Smith could actually happen? Do Scientologists really believe about an alien conspiracy to take all human souls? Most of it is pretty ridiculous....

JCane
03-24-2009, 06:05 AM
I thought it was ****ing hillarious.

THIS

I was laughing my *** off...especially when he was sitting down with the Arkansas representative lol.

I live in the Bible Belt so I know all about it and I'm all about laughing at these religious nutjobs who need faith in something above and beyond them mostly because they lack faith in themselves. I don't have a problem with people believing , etc., but around here it's forced on you from birth and it aggravates the **** out of me.

I don't need a Religion to be a good person.

Tetragrammaton
03-24-2009, 11:31 AM
I'm pretending now?

At some level, yes.

I hope you aren't going to get on a soapbox. After all, it was you who said you didn't think anyone was an actual atheist.

jared81
03-24-2009, 11:57 AM
At some level, yes.

I hope you aren't going to get on a soapbox. After all, it was you who said you didn't think anyone was an actual atheist.

believe it or not, i rather watch something that shows the other point of view of someone, rather than my own views, so i saw this movie and i do think it is better than a michael moore movie but i cant actually call it a documentary. i still think it is highly edited to garner support for his personal view. he seems to always talk to people who are "lightweights" in the religous community. and doesnt do a good job of making points. instead, he uses underhanded insults (which i expect from bill). i dont mind bill maher, i watch his show sometimes but i disagree with almost everything he says. he is a smart man, but he is insecure, so he has to use comedy as a way to make himself look smart.

i could talk about religon all day, but nobody in the whole movie (or at least he didnt show), as a christian, i believe there are things we as human could never understand, and why god does the things he does. sometimes people think they are so smart, when in actuality, we dont know anything. i did think the part where he talked to the guy who "used" to be gay was funny. he is obviously still gay.:lol:

Dolphan7
03-24-2009, 12:06 PM
At some level, yes.

I hope you aren't going to get on a soapbox. After all, it was you who said you didn't think anyone was an actual atheist.Nice.

Dolphan7
03-24-2009, 01:31 PM
I follow Bill Maher. I couldn't care less about pop culture, and I'm a graduate student.

Besides that, he doesn't claim to have it all figured out. He very openly admits he doesn't know. He is taking a very Socratic approach to the question of religion. He goes to people who claim to be experts, and asks them about it. Now that I've thrown out the term Socratic, I can draw a lot of parallels between him and Socrates on this topic. I know the outrage that's going to draw from people, comparing him to Socrates, but consider it:

They both have the same agenda. They both claimed that they don't know, and they go and challenge those who think they do. Granted Socrates did it out of curiosity, and Maher does it to prove his point.

Both are absolutely loved by their followers, and despised by the ones they are challenging. Maher would have been executed long ago had we been in a society similar to ancient Greece.

I just really enjoy how he goes and has people try to explain inconsistencies. I mean, he makes a good point. Do Christians really believe that a talking snake tempted Adam and Eve to take the apple? Did a man really live in the belly of a whale? Do Mormons really believe all that bullsh*t about Joseph Smith could actually happen? Do Scientologists really believe about an alien conspiracy to take all human souls? Most of it is pretty ridiculous....If Maher really was interested in the truth about religion (s), he would seek out experts in each field with the hopes of a basic understanding of each. Instead he uses cheap shots and makes fun of it to get a laugh. He isn't interested in the truth, but only in belittling people of faith, all faiths.

Granted there is plenty of wierd stuff to comprehend, but I respect people to believe in whatever they want. I don't have to agree with it, but I respect their right to that belief.

I don't think Maher shows any respect whatsoever. But I respect his right to believe and behave any way he wants, even if he is a class A jerk.

jared81
03-24-2009, 01:53 PM
If Maher really was interested in the truth about religion (s), he would seek out experts in each field with the hopes of a basic understanding of each. Instead he uses cheap shots and makes fun of it to get a laugh. He isn't interested in the truth, but only in belittling people of faith, all faiths.

Granted there is plenty of wierd stuff to comprehend, but I respect people to believe in whatever they want. I don't have to agree with it, but I respect their right to that belief.

I don't think Maher shows any respect whatsoever. But I respect his right to believe and behave any way he wants, even if he is a class A jerk.

of course he doesnt. but thats the angle he wants to play. he just wants everyone to think they are all idiots, and hes sooooooo smart and funny.

Tetragrammaton
03-24-2009, 02:06 PM
believe it or not, i rather watch something that shows the other point of view of someone, rather than my own views, so i saw this movie and i do think it is better than a michael moore movie but i cant actually call it a documentary. i still think it is highly edited to garner support for his personal view. he seems to always talk to people who are "lightweights" in the religous community. and doesnt do a good job of making points. instead, he uses underhanded insults (which i expect from bill). i dont mind bill maher, i watch his show sometimes but i disagree with almost everything he says. he is a smart man, but he is insecure, so he has to use comedy as a way to make himself look smart.

i could talk about religion all day, but nobody in the whole movie (or at least he didnt show), as a christian, i believe there are things we as human could never understand, and why god does the things he does. sometimes people think they are so smart, when in actuality, we dont know anything. i did think the part where he talked to the guy who "used" to be gay was funny. he is obviously still gay.:lol:

Well, I think his argument would be that religious people do not deserve respect.

Expecting an honest forum from Maher on religion would be like thinking Michael Moore is going to make an honest film on health care or Ben Stein is going to be fair on evolution. I am a documentary fan, and I love documentaries that attempt to give multiple sides on the issue. I didn't expect to get that with Maher, but it was still not very good.

ih8brady
03-24-2009, 02:09 PM
Well, I think his argument would be that religious people do not deserve respect.

Expecting an honest forum from Maher on religion would be like thinking Michael Moore is going to make an honest film on health care or Ben Stein is going to be fair on evolution. I am a documentary film, and I love documentaries that attempt to give multiple sides on the issue. I didn't expect to get that with Maher, but it was still not very good.


Holy crap!!!! Films are now sapient?!

Tetragrammaton
03-24-2009, 02:18 PM
Holy crap!!!! Films are now sapient?!

I don't know why I keep doing that. I thought of the word fan in my head, but random other words come out.

In third grade I was disqualified from a spelling bee. I did not spell the word wrong, but I spelled a different word.

EDIT: I just had to edit another mistake like that.

ih8brady
03-24-2009, 02:19 PM
I don't know why I keep doing that. I thought of the word fan in my head, but random other words come out.

In third grade grade I was disqualified from a spelling bee. I did not spell the word wrong, but I spelled a different word.


I assumed that's what you meant, just joshing with you.

BobDole
03-24-2009, 08:47 PM
i can't believe this one kept on going. i thought it was very funny but he made that for one reason and one reason only - to make fun of people who have faith. am i saying i have faith and was offended? no - but i could see what the agenda was. shame on you locke and westward - i thought you guys knew the difference between objective and subjective.

Tetragrammaton
03-24-2009, 09:39 PM
shame on you locke and westward - i thought you guys knew the difference between objective and subjective.

What the blazes are you talking about?


I found the documentary to be a bore.

I just thought he could have done a lot better.

for most of the movie, he went for the cheap shots.

Expecting an honest forum from Maher on religion would be like thinking Michael Moore is going to make an honest film on health care or Ben Stein is going to be fair on evolution.

it was still not very good.

Locke
03-24-2009, 11:10 PM
i can't believe this one kept on going. i thought it was very funny but he made that for one reason and one reason only - to make fun of people who have faith. am i saying i have faith and was offended? no - but i could see what the agenda was. shame on you locke and westward - i thought you guys knew the difference between objective and subjective.

I admitted in my first post that I knew it was left-wing as hell, and edited in a way to prove his point, so I have no misconceptions about it being subjective. I do think he makes good points with some questions, which is where I was hoping this thread would go, kind of got derailed though.

I agree that he needs to sit down with some religious "heavy-weights" to have any of this hold water. However, in his defense, how many of these people would actually sit down with him, especially considering his reputation? In that regard, I don't think we'll ever seen anything like this from Maher, since he is simply not capable of doing it anymore....

PhinzN703
03-24-2009, 11:29 PM
good point....i have to laugh at people like him, they think their so smart and they got it all figured out. too bad the people that follow him are the ones obsessed with pop culture, and have the education of a 6th grader.

Wrong. He doesn't walk around claiming he knows everything. He's even said he has no idea what there is out there, you know, because nobody does.

I enjoy pop culture so you're right on that point. As far as the 6th grade comment, takes one to know one y'know.

jared81
03-24-2009, 11:46 PM
Wrong. He doesn't walk around claiming he knows everything. He's even said he has no idea what there is out there, you know, because nobody does.

I enjoy pop culture so you're right on that point. As far as the 6th grade comment, takes one to know one y'know.


at least im 50/50 right, which is more than i can say for some. and your response is "he has no idea what is out there". the man is 50 years old, and your telling me he has no idea. stop drinking the kool-aid my friend. that low ratings movie was designed to disrespect all religons, looks like you fell for it.

BobDole
03-25-2009, 12:26 AM
Huh?

The whole point of Maher's film, and his religious routines in general, is that he does not know, unlike those that pretend they do.

i was talking about this one zest. that was not the whole point of the film. the point of the film was to make fun of those that 'pretend' they know. i didn't mean any offense by it.

Tetragrammaton
03-25-2009, 12:30 AM
i was talking about this one zest. that was not the whole point of the film. the point of the film was to make fun of those that 'pretend' they know. i didn't mean any offense by it.

Fair enough.

BobDole
03-25-2009, 12:32 AM
I admitted in my first post that I knew it was left-wing as hell, and edited in a way to prove his point, so I have no misconceptions about it being subjective. I do think he makes good points with some questions, which is where I was hoping this thread would go, kind of got derailed though.

I agree that he needs to sit down with some religious "heavy-weights" to have any of this hold water. However, in his defense, how many of these people would actually sit down with him, especially considering his reputation? In that regard, I don't think we'll ever seen anything like this from Maher, since he is simply not capable of doing it anymore....

oh, my bad. i got the impression from some of those posts that you felt he was taking an honest look at religion in general.

i liked it as well. i thought it was funny, albeit blasphemous as hell. i've got nothin but love for you baby.

ABrownLamp
03-25-2009, 01:49 AM
The movie was boring. He made no effort to talk to people who could hold a conversation with him- and it was 90 minutes of that. It's like he made an effort to not be challenged and there were many places he could have gone outside of the hills of West Virginia.

Although, if you belive in the word of God as the literal truth, it really doesnt matter where youre from- it's going to be the same argument and the same ignorance or dismissal of facts and common sense

jared81
03-25-2009, 10:02 AM
The movie was boring. He made no effort to talk to people who could hold a conversation with him- and it was 90 minutes of that. It's like he made an effort to not be challenged and there were many places he could have gone outside of the hills of West Virginia.

Although, if you belive in the word of God as the literal truth, it really doesnt matter where youre from- it's going to be the same argument and the same ignorance or dismissal of facts and common sense


maybe if more people believed we wouldnt have all the issues we have now-a-days. lack of morals, pregnency, disease, drug abuse, abortions, but like i always say, i guess im not as enlightened as you.

Locke
03-25-2009, 10:18 AM
maybe if more people believed we wouldnt have all the issues we have now-a-days. lack of morals, pregnency, disease, drug abuse, abortions, but like i always say, i guess im not as enlightened as you.

I fail to see where lack of morals applies to these two. By disease, I assume you mean STDs. I can see the argument for abortion actually, but pregnancy? Come on man....

Tetragrammaton
03-25-2009, 10:41 AM
maybe if more people believed we wouldnt have all the issues we have now-a-days. lack of morals, pregnency, disease, drug abuse, abortions, but like i always say, i guess im not as enlightened as you.

The kids of religious zealots are the ones often pregnant at 17 and married at 18. There are a lot of homeschooled kids in this area, and they are the ones getting knocked up because some mystical figure says do not wear a condom.

Even if all of those were the fault of the irreligious, it is a worthy tradeoff. Live a life of honesty for its positives as well as its negatives. I would gladly take increased fear of STD's if it eliminates holy wars and religious persecution of minorities.

jared81
03-25-2009, 10:53 AM
I fail to see where lack of morals applies to these two. By disease, I assume you mean STDs. I can see the argument for abortion actually, but pregnancy? Come on man....


left out the word "teen", my bad.

ABrownLamp
03-25-2009, 11:01 AM
maybe if more people believed we wouldnt have all the issues we have now-a-days. lack of morals, pregnency, disease, drug abuse, abortions, but like i always say, i guess im not as enlightened as you.


Nah. Theres absolutely no evidence that people who believe in God act more "morally" than atheists. It's a fallacy that's easily debunked with a simple Google search.
Doing the right thing and leading a positive life is correlated strongly with education and socio-economic status obviously. But of course, in the eyes of religion your actions really dont matter in the end- it's what you think in your head thats important.

garcia420
04-28-2009, 02:06 PM
Please post a link and a small paragraph or two of the article. Thanks!

tylerdolphin
04-29-2009, 12:29 AM
I was thinking of something the other night... This is off topic, but I didnt think it deserved its own thread so Ill put it here.

Lets say you were born in India D7. Theres a very small chance that you would ever become a Christian. So my question is, how is that fair that God makes some people go through life with the deck stacked heavily against them ever coming to know Jesus? Im sure you had heard about Jesus and the gospel a million times before you finally decided to follow him. A person in India or Afghanistan may only hear of Jesus maybe once or twice in their life, plus they already have a religion they believe to be true. To me it just doesnt seem fair that God would send someone to hell when they never really had anywhere near the chances of the average American just because of where they happened to be born.

Dolphan7
04-29-2009, 01:22 PM
I was thinking of something the other night... This is off topic, but I didnt think it deserved its own thread so Ill put it here.

Lets say you were born in India D7. Theres a very small chance that you would ever become a Christian. So my question is, how is that fair that God makes some people go through life with the deck stacked heavily against them ever coming to know Jesus? Im sure you had heard about Jesus and the gospel a million times before you finally decided to follow him. A person in India or Afghanistan may only hear of Jesus maybe once or twice in their life, plus they already have a religion they believe to be true. To me it just doesnt seem fair that God would send someone to hell when they never really had anywhere near the chances of the average American just because of where they happened to be born.Asked and answered dozens of times in this forum. Basically, God gives all of us an inherent knowledge of good and evil, a sense of oughtness of what is right and what is wrong. It is our conscience. Read Romans 1. Jesus covers those who never know his name, but who respond to God's sense of oughtness that he places within each of us, and his presence is evident simply in the world around us as Romans points out.

We also trust God to do the right thing. I tend not to worry about how God will judge everyone else, I tend to worry about how he will judge me.....because I am the only one I can control and have an impact on what I do in my relationship to God. I encourage everyone else to do the same. We stand before God as individuals - one on one.

Locke
04-30-2009, 03:58 PM
I can't make them any smaller, they are linked to a site. Or I don't know how I guess. I posted a link in that post to the source at the bottom of it.

All the info you need for 'new information' (which is a sweepingly, general term) is in the graph showing studies by Victor Kunin (and co.). Hell, even with swine flu there is new information created.

You can't show proof of it not happening, but you can make the claim that it isn't? I can prove to you that the world isn't flat with science. I don't have to do so by simply stating "because, well.. it isn't flat!". I haven't been in outer space, but I've seen pictures and significant evidence enough for me to believe it is, indeed, not flat.

I can't go any further right now, or I'll probably get fired from my job. :crazy: Feel free to post some responses and I'll get back on here when I can.

Major props buddy. Loving the strong arguments.... :up: