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fishypete
03-22-2009, 01:35 PM
Some wonderlic scores;


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-22-pompei-scout-mar22,0,7151782.story

skipp2myloo13
03-22-2009, 01:44 PM
Matthews and Barwin did very well, no surprises. Nicks did bad, no surprises either. this changes nothing about who i want however.

Roman529
03-22-2009, 02:12 PM
I took the Wonderlic test and got a 30 on it and I wasn't really focusing that hard.

Dolphins101
03-22-2009, 03:15 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/03/CLG-1.gif Hakeem Nicks (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5136)-WR-Player (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=CLG)Mar. 22 - 1:36 pm ethttp://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/01/right_corner_player_news-1.gifhttp://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/01/pixel-1.gifhttp://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/01/pixel-1.gifhttp://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/01/pixel-1.gifNorth Carolina WR Hakeem Nicks scored only an 11 on the Wonderlic exam.
Nicks is a definite ballplayer, but he might not be that smart. Other notably poor scores were by Percy Harvin (12), Western Michigan FS Louis Delmas (12), Darrius Heyward-Bey (14), and Rey Maualuga (15). Michael Oher helped himself with a 19. Maryland CB Kevin Barnes was most impressive with a 41.
Source: Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-22-pompei-scout-mar22,0,7151782.story)


Wow an 11 roflmmfao:lol2:

WelcomeBack
03-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Didn't Marino get a 16?

skipp2myloo13
03-22-2009, 03:43 PM
I still want him, hearing this guy talk i knew he wasnt the smartest guy in the world, but he can play football. Remember they dont ask you how old Suzy's brother is if she is 2x Suzy and Suzy is 5, when you are running patterns and catching balls. Lack of this inteligence also doesnt mean this guy is an immature idiot, just not his cup of tea.

cuban_refugee
03-22-2009, 03:50 PM
Do Wonderlic scores correlate with how a player performs in the NFL? I just saw some Wonderlic scores for players in the upcoming draft:

Hakeem Nicks 11
Percy Harvin 12
Matthew Stafford 38
Kevin Barnes 41
Derrius Heyward-Bay 14

11 is a pretty poor score.

Roman529
03-22-2009, 03:58 PM
I think Dan Marino got a 14 or 15 on it. He turned out ok.

athrun340
03-22-2009, 04:05 PM
i heard somewhere here that Jason Allen got 11 as well .. not sure if its accurate tho.

FinsDBess15
03-22-2009, 04:08 PM
what the hell is a wonderlic score?

Geforce
03-22-2009, 04:09 PM
There is no correlation between the wonderlic score and a player's success in the NFL.

Steve McNair 15
Neil O'Donnell 13
Jim Kelly 15
Dan Marino 15
Terry Bradshaw 15

Hugh Millen 41
Jason Maas 43
Drew Henson 42
Alex Smith 40

athrun340
03-22-2009, 04:10 PM
what the hell is a wonderlic score?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test

Geforce
03-22-2009, 04:16 PM
what the hell is a wonderlic score?
From WikiPedia

The Wonderlic Personnel Test is a twelve-minute, fifty-question intelligence test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_test) used to assess the aptitude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptitude) of prospective employees for learning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning) and problem-solving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem-solving) in a wide range of occupations.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test#cite_note-0) The score is calculated as the number of correct answers given in the allotted time. A score of 20 is intended to indicate average intelligence (corresponding to an intelligence quotient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient) of 100; a rough conversion is accomplished via the following formula: IQ = 2WPT + 60). A new version was released in Jan, '07 called the Wonderlic Personnel Test - Revised. It contains questions deemed more appropriate to the 21st century.

Sample Wonderlic Exam
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=wonderlic/090218

lbmclean_sj
03-22-2009, 04:19 PM
I wouldn't worry about a WR's wonderlic, even I could learn the route tree and read defenses

Geforce
03-22-2009, 04:22 PM
i heard somewhere here that Jason Allen got 11 as well .. not sure if its accurate tho.
What's your point? The late Sean Taylor scored a 10 on the Wonderlic Test. Nathan Vasher scored 13 and Chris Gamble scored 9.

dolfan_germany
03-22-2009, 04:47 PM
History shows that there is no correlation.. However this could have some effect on how fast a player can learn the playbook and how good he can get the grip of the offense but imo if a player is eager to learn and wants to learn then he can do it no matter how intelligent or bright he may be..

Geforce
03-22-2009, 04:55 PM
Some other players with low Wonderlic scores.
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/check-out-these-wonderlic-scores-27095.html
Chris Gamble 9
Jason Peters 9
Vince Wilfork 10
Sean Taylor 10
Tommie Harris 11
Kellen Winslow 12
Will Allen (the other one) 13
Dunta Robinson 13

X-Pacolypse
03-22-2009, 05:31 PM
Wonderlic scores really don't matter. I don't even know why they do it anymore.

Buddy
03-22-2009, 05:40 PM
i heard somewhere here that Jason Allen got 11 as well .. not sure if its accurate tho.

I know that it does not always correlate but this is one situation where I think intelligence was properly measured and his lack of brains have seriously contributed to his lack of production. The Wonderlic is not the definitive measure of a players ability to understand a game plan but it can be an indicator that someone learns quickly or is dumb as a rock. MOST very successful players at the NFL level tend to be moderately intelligent, especially those that play brain-intensive positions (QB, LB, O-line, S, CB).

SnakeoilSeller
03-22-2009, 05:58 PM
To answer your question, maybe. Now I will say this, years ago they did not have all the preparation they do today, just as they have draft schools that train you in the 40, the broad jump, the shuffle, etc. these draft schools also have classes on how to get a better score on the wonderlic. I don't think they had those back when Dan Marino and Terry Bradshaw were taking them.
Does a good wonderlic mean that someone is going to be a good NFL player, probably not. But a bad score could correlate to a player not being able to pick up a playbook or not being able to read a defense.

Mr Fan
03-22-2009, 06:06 PM
Some other players with low Wonderlic scores.
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/check-out-these-wonderlic-scores-27095.html
Chris Gamble 9
Jason Peters 9
Vince Wilfork 10
Sean Taylor 10
Tommie Harris 11
Kellen Winslow 12
Will Allen (the other one) 13
Dunta Robinson 13

I would prefer to pass on anyone with less than a 15 score (depending upon position). CB/NT/RB being at the low end of the chart, QB/OL being on the high end.

Each one of those players has a major negative associated with them. Dumb is dumb, on the field and off (Will Allen included, example note the thuggish behavior in camp last year.)

Elliott 1
03-22-2009, 06:25 PM
It matters. To say it doesn't...........well, figure it out.

Right now, if I'm a scout; my a worries about Kevin Barnes shoulder were just overshadowed by his extremely impressive score.

It's good to know that if the Dolphins get shut out in the 1st and 2nd from the top tier CB's, a very smart athletically gifted CB will probably still be there in the late 3rd.

It also makes me wonder if Percy Harvin can learn the plays his 1st year and be able contribute right away, especially considering he would be asked to learn WR and RB and KR duties amongst other things.

WelcomeBack
03-22-2009, 06:37 PM
I would prefer to pass on anyone with less than a 15 score (depending upon position). CB/NT/RB being at the low end of the chart, QB/OL being on the high end.

Each one of those players has a major negative associated with them. Dumb is dumb, on the field and off (Will Allen included, example note the thuggish behavior in camp last year.)


That's your opinion, but I would challenge it. The players that Geforce mentioned are quite talented and work hard on the field. I don't care if my receiver can't score 15 on a wonderlic. If he knows routes, knows how to beat the corners and knows how to catch a ball, let him on the team.

There's a difference between being smart, and being football smart.

WelcomeBack
03-22-2009, 06:44 PM
It matters. To say it doesn't...........well, figure it out.

Right now, if I'm a scout; my a worries about Kevin Barnes shoulder were just overshadowed by his extremely impressive score.

It's good to know that if the Dolphins get shut out in the 1st and 2nd from the top tier CB's, a very smart athletically gifted CB will probably still be there in the late 3rd.

It also makes me wonder if Percy Harvin can learn the plays his 1st year and be able contribute right away, especially considering he would be asked to learn WR and RB and KR duties amongst other things.

Ok...so, if say Dominique Edison has a higher wonderlic score than Michael Crabtree...does it make him a more appealing choice?

As for Kevin Barnes, I think he's a talented guy, but to say injury status his overshadowed by a test in which has nothing to do with football, then I really question your analysis.

If a player can tell you which pattern doesn't belong, but can't run a slant route...still want him?

PSU Cane
03-22-2009, 06:47 PM
It matters. It's not the deciding factor as to how good a player will be, but like anything else (size, speed, strength, etc) it factors in. What the wonderlic test shows is how intelligent and/or how quickly someone can process information and make a decision, correctly and accurately. I know a majority of football is based on pure athletic ability and football "instinct", but intelligence can also play a major role at some positions, specifically QB and OL. So if you have 2 guys with similar athletic ability, similar "instincts", and similar size....but one scores a 30 on the wonderlic and one scores and 8, of course you're going to take the guy who scores the 30. Why wouldn't you? That's just common sense.

$$BWCJR78$$
03-22-2009, 06:53 PM
what about all the players with low scores that are not good. who are they?
like how many first round bust have low scores

TooDrkPark
03-22-2009, 06:56 PM
North Carolina WR Hakeem Nicks scored only an 11 on the Wonderlic exam.
Nicks is a definite ballplayer, but he might not be that smart. Other notably poor scores were by Percy Harvin (12), Western Michigan FS Louis Delmas (12), Darrius Heyward-Bey (14), and Rey Maualuga (15). Michael Oher helped himself with a 19. Maryland CB Kevin Barnes was most impressive with a 41.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-22-pompei-scout-mar22,0,7151782.story

Georgia QB Matthew Stafford scored a 38 on the NFL Wonderlic test.
Mark Sanchez scored 28 and Josh Freeman 27. Wonderlic's value is certainly debatable, but 38 is an outstanding score. Stafford's high score may instill confidence that he can make a smooth transition to the NFL despite the failure rate of early entrant quarterbacks.


You want players with natural ability on the field, but also have some smarts....scored an 11??? wow....:confused:

NIXFINS
03-22-2009, 06:59 PM
I believe Marino scored very low also. How did that work out?

Pinkboy
03-22-2009, 07:00 PM
Even if Nicks was Einstein, Parcells isn't stupid enough to pick a WR (a luxury pick and a position with the highest bust rate) in the 1st round when there are more pressing needs in building the actual foundation of a team.

Dolfan3773
03-22-2009, 07:01 PM
Most the time those things dont mean anything..Dan Marino scored a 15 on his and look how he turned out...:up:

$$BWCJR78$$
03-22-2009, 07:28 PM
Tarvaris Jackson 19
Vince Young 16*
Kordell Stewart 13
Marcus Vick 11
Jeff George 10
Chris Leak 8

Mr Fan
03-22-2009, 07:49 PM
That's your opinion, but I would challenge it. The players that Geforce mentioned are quite talented and work hard on the field. I don't care if my receiver can't score 15 on a wonderlic. If he knows routes, knows how to beat the corners and knows how to catch a ball, let him on the team.

There's a difference between being smart, and being football smart.

I enjoy a challenge.:D

Physical talents only go so far in the NFL, if for an example a WR were to have decent physical abilities (example Nicks), how quickly would he pick up an offensive system? Does he have the capability to understand the nuances of running a slant pattern vs a cover 2? Can he understand the complex disguised coverages in the NFL. The NFL is evolving again, the days of the simple 43 (ala Jimmy Johnston) are being phased out into the hybrid 43/34s, which vastly increases the number of questions and options at the line of scrimmage. How will his diminished intellect limit his potential growth (ever wonder why some guys just do not live up to expectations, when they have the other measurables?). How quickly can he adapt week in and week out to different challenges, game plans, defensive techniques.

Factor also the typical boneheaded conduct of these players who lack the intellect to understand the consequences of their actions. That list was full of guys who raise the red flag on this point. Now give them millions of dollars:crazy: which a typical first day pick gets.

The Wonderlic is also a very basic test that an average person should be able to score a 20 easily (projected 90-100 IQ). That they would score >15 speaks to their level of motivation.

I want our first day picks to have all the tools required to succeed.

fishypete
03-22-2009, 09:55 PM
I wouldn't worry about a WR's wonderlic, even I could learn the route tree and read defenses

Could you teach Ginn?