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WharfRat
10-13-2003, 04:36 PM
Everyone,

We really didn't want to do this, but in an effort to keep the main boards more organized, please post all strictly "anti-" or "pro-" Jay posts in the new Jay Fiedler Forum... found within the main Dolphins forum.

This will allow for the love Jay vs hate Jay debates, while also allowing other topics to be discussed without having to weed through Fiedler threads.

TOS still applies. Keep things civil, and attack the posts instead of the posters.

So, from this point forward.... all threads and posts regarding how good or bad Jay is MUST be posted in the appropriate forum. We have begun to move several threads already... and this is a lot of work as it is... so please don't add to it by continuing to post on this topic in the main forum.


Thanks,

Jon

zach13
10-13-2003, 04:40 PM
This rocks!

I did not know how the mods could help in this situation but you have again proven your worth.

Thanks

dolphan39
10-13-2003, 04:40 PM
I hope we never need another one of these for another Phins...maybe a Wanne forum ;)

MacAttack
10-13-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by dolphan39
I hope we never need another one of these for another Phins...maybe a Wanne forum ;)

LoL! Thats the next debate. . 10$. I will hold out until later in the season.

DOLPHAN1
10-13-2003, 04:44 PM
it speaks volumes that a seperate thread had to be made for this....

ohall
10-13-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by WharfRat
Everyone,

We really didn't want to do this, but in an effort to keep the main boards more organized, please post all strictly "anti-" or "pro-" Jay posts in the new Jay Fiedler Forum... found within the main Dolphins forum.

This will allow for the love Jay vs hate Jay debates, while also allowing other topics to be discussed without having to weed through Fiedler threads.

TOS still applies. Keep things civil, and attack the posts instead of the posters.

So, from this point forward.... all threads and posts regarding how good or bad Jay is MUST be posted in the appropriate forum. We have begun to move several threads already... and this is a lot of work as it is... so please don't add to it by continuing to post on this topic in the main forum.


Thanks,

Jon

So now if a THREAD starts out talking about the WR's, or the o-lines pass blocking ability for example and then some how finds it's way into pro Jay or anti Jay those THREADS will now be moved?

Oliver...

dolphan39
10-13-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Oliver


So now if a THREAD starts out talking about the WR's, or the o-lines pass blocking ability for example and then some how finds it's way into pro Jay or anti Jay those THREADS will now be moved?

Oliver... ideally, it s/b split into 2 thread and the Jey portion moved :D

MNFINFAN
10-13-2003, 04:52 PM
Whoo whee, I had an idea someone agreed with, I feel worthwhile! It has only taken me 36 years to get that feeling but that is better left for my shrink:couch:
http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24639

FinHeavenAJ
10-13-2003, 04:55 PM
It is another thin line... if the original discussion was about the wr's and then goes off on Jay Fiedler, we'll first try to get it back on track or then split the thread into a seperate discussion into the Jay Fiedler forum.

Also, just to speak my mind about this...

I honestly hate the fact that I had to click "submit" to create the Jay Fiedler forum. Ever since Dan Marino left, everyone wanted a Jay Fiedler forum and I refused... but I, along with Dave, Muck and Jon, felt that there should be a seperate forum now.

My reason is this: A win is a win. In the end, what difference does it make on how we win the game? What difference does it make if we get to the big game, and our only touchdown is off a fumble recovery and an interception? None at all, because that is how the team was made.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts... I have more, but I don't want this to start into another debate.

Also, I must... and I say MUST get this off my chest. The world needs less labels going around... stop the "Fiedler Hugger" or "Fiedler Hater" names... we're all Dolphin fans. We all root for the same team. That's all that matters. Why on Earth do we call other Dolphin fans names when we are ALL here for one specific reason... and that's too root for THE Miami Dolphins... and that's all there is to it!

Go Dolphins!

ohall
10-13-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by dolphan39
ideally, it s/b split into 2 thread and the Jey portion moved :D

Not trying to be an azz here, seriously. However from what I've read I get this, if there are off topic comments in THREAD(S) about Jay they will be seperated into pro and anti portions of the MBoard?

If that's so, I sure hope they start paying you Admins! :D

Oliver...

FinHeavenAJ
10-13-2003, 04:58 PM
If the posts are just about Jay or whatever, and that post then goes off into a HUGE debate and never gets back onto the original discussion, then yes it would be split.

ohall
10-13-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by FinHeavenAJ
If the posts are just about Jay or whatever, and that post then goes off into a HUGE debate and never gets back onto the original discussion, then yes it would be split.

Got ya, good idea. The way I understood it 1st, I was like man you guys are going to wear out your Internet connection and your keyboards! :D

Oliver...

dolfan4good
10-13-2003, 05:09 PM
Aleluyah!!!! No more sorting thu threads! great job Mods!

P4E
10-13-2003, 05:14 PM
Damn... those mods are smart.

Muck
10-13-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by dolfan4good
Aleluyah!!!! No more sorting thu threads!

Speak for yourself. :lol: :cry:

Ozzy
10-13-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by FinHeavenAJ
It is another thin line... if the original discussion was about the wr's and then goes off on Jay Fiedler, we'll first try to get it back on track or then split the thread into a seperate discussion into the Jay Fiedler forum.

Also, just to speak my mind about this...

I honestly hate the fact that I had to click "submit" to create the Jay Fiedler forum. Ever since Dan Marino left, everyone wanted a Jay Fiedler forum and I refused... but I, along with Dave, Muck and Jon, felt that there should be a seperate forum now.

My reason is this: A win is a win. In the end, what difference does it make on how we win the game? What difference does it make if we get to the big game, and our only touchdown is off a fumble recovery and an interception? None at all, because that is how the team was made.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts... I have more, but I don't want this to start into another debate.

Also, I must... and I say MUST get this off my chest. The world needs less labels going around... stop the "Fiedler Hugger" or "Fiedler Hater" names... we're all Dolphin fans. We all root for the same team. That's all that matters. Why on Earth do we call other Dolphin fans names when we are ALL here for one specific reason... and that's too root for THE Miami Dolphins... and that's all there is to it!

Go Dolphins!

I know I make my fair share of comments on Fiedler, but this is a very good idea.

I have a feeling that this part of the house is going to be a lot more peaceful from now on.

Good Luck to the Mods! :D

DrAstroZoom
10-13-2003, 05:48 PM
I have to admit ... it's a good idea.

fairbanksb
10-13-2003, 06:00 PM
Thanx mods. Great idea, and not because I don't appreciate debate, but because it seems that right after a game 95% of all threads get into anti or pro Jay debates.

jetssuckSr
10-13-2003, 07:39 PM
My reason is this: A win is a win. In the end, what difference does it make on how we win the game? What difference does it make if we get to the big game, and our only touchdown is off a fumble recovery and an interception? None at all, because that is how the team was made.


Not to get a debate started in this thread AJ but you are missing the big picture.

It does matter that we are having to get a light's out performance from the D every week to beat average teams. Especially at the beginning of the year.

The last three seasons should have taught everyone that.

Maybe it's because I'm older but I feel that you have to use the past as a guide. Otherwise you will end up repeating past failures and mistakes and have nothing to blame it on but ignorance.

Thinking that we can continue on like we have in the past and it will result in a SB victory, falls into the above category.

ZOD
10-13-2003, 07:59 PM
:crazy: Did I miss something?

I guess I didn't click on the right threads....

I didn't think it was a problem....

But I did get a good laugh on the entire thought of a seperate forum. I don't think I'll be visiting that one.

The mod's are soft on Jay :tongue:

rickykicks@$$
10-13-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by ZOD
:crazy:

The mod's are soft on Jay :tongue:



I agree, I have ejoyed the forum as such. I dont find a problem with people saying how they feel about the players on the team.
I feel like venting from a serious issue, ie. Fiedler.....this is the place to come to do so. If you are botherd by the harshness of the content then just dont read the thread.

The lack of O for this team is a serious issue, we are not very good period, and Jay has to take the heat. He has a choice.... either get better or listen to the criticisim. He is paid a lot of money, I feel this is the perfect place to dicuss the issue it's not like we are complaining just to complain. I think name calling is unnecessary, but the topic is not.
I feel sometimes when the MODS step in it is unnecessary.

FFiB
10-14-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by WharfRat
Everyone,

We really didn't want to do this, but in an effort to keep the main boards more organized, please post all strictly "anti-" or "pro-" Jay posts in the new Jay Fiedler Forum... found within the main Dolphins forum.

This will allow for the love Jay vs hate Jay debates, while also allowing other topics to be discussed without having to weed through Fiedler threads.

TOS still applies. Keep things civil, and attack the posts instead of the posters.

So, from this point forward.... all threads and posts regarding how good or bad Jay is MUST be posted in the appropriate forum. We have begun to move several threads already... and this is a lot of work as it is... so please don't add to it by continuing to post on this topic in the main forum.


Thanks,

Jon

ahhhhhh..a smack forum....:D

I bet some will feel comfty over there.....

:lol:

RUDEbyallMEANS
10-14-2003, 01:41 AM
Very good idea.. I got sick from all the Fiedler loving..

Dol-Fan Dupree
10-14-2003, 02:20 AM
Even if it is the day of or the day after a game and Fiedler had a good/bad day?

Surferosa
10-14-2003, 04:05 AM
Great idea mods. An elegant solution to a touchy subject. When word of this gets out, it will make the 6:00 news

-Jay Fiedler Gets Own Forum-

nice work.

fin-atic
10-14-2003, 09:17 AM
Wow. Can we possibly over manage this board anymore?
Where does it stop?
Do we start another forum to manage the forums?

This is really silly. Player deabte is as old as the game and is an intrical part of the game. We went through it with Dan and Jimmy, Tom Olividatti, and so on. New Orleans went through it with Ricky, Denver with Griese, the Jets with Vinny, Buffalo with Flutie, etc.

These threads have invoked more participation and exchange then any other threads posted. And that makes a forum a forum

I am sick of the panzies who CHOOSE to wade through the threads. It is their CHOICE to open them up and read them. Then whine and cry like a bunch of punks because they can;t make people agree with them. These posts are easily identified. It takes not time to scan down the page and see them and avoid them. This is just an attempt to censor and it is a new low for this board.

We need to remember this is a forum. It is not ESPN, it is not SI, and the people looking for in depth journalism need to leave. But this a football forum by people and for the people. We express the pulse of the team and there is no bigger issue surrounding this team than the QB and passing game. I listen to Local WQAM every day. It is a dominant topic there. The Palm Beach Post today has a large article about the failur eof the passing game. The problem is real and banishing it to another forum doesn't make it go away. I know and everyone knows that no one ever goes to the other forums. Not in any volume.

If everybody wants to sit around kiss each others a$$ and fluff up Jay Fiedler then they need to change this from Finheaven.com to Fiedlerheaven.com.

DrAstroZoom
10-14-2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by fin-atic
This is just an attempt to censor and it is a new low for this board.

Fin-atic, I always enjoy discussions with you, and I think you're an intelligent and fairly classy poster.

But the above statement is WAY off base.

Censorship? Give me a break. If the mods wanted to shut down viewpoints or those who express them, they could do that a lot more easily. The admins here just want to keep everything organized and keep finheaven.com as popular and well-used as it is.

There have been so many concurrent threads on Jay running at one time, I've had to scroll pages to get non-Jay news and commentary.

I'm not sure why you've chosen to adopt a conspiracy theory on this, but it just doesn't wash.

Fiedlerheaven.com? Again ... give me a break.

fin-atic
10-14-2003, 09:50 AM
Hey Doc. I appreciate you as well. We may not agree on this, but my respect for you continues.

Simply put, this is a forum. If people don't want to hear other people expressing themselves then don't come to a forum.

The move was made in response to all the whining about "Fieder Bashing". The whiners compained enough that the change happened. This forum has seen similar activity with the draft, and the end fo the season, when Griese was signed, and on and on. Its just part of the game. I think to buckle for the crybabies is wrong. Mark my words these kind of moves will make participation go down. People don't want to hunt down their comments across various forums.

Also, I participate on several different forums, Jets, Broncos, Chiefs, Raiders, etc. and I am constantly defending this site because I get heat that it is "over moderated". Last week I made one post and it was whisked away within five minutes.

I mean lets keep the crap out and the SPAM and the trolls, but the rest is football and should be left alone.

Doc you are a good man, but I just feel strongly about the principal of a forum is about. To change that because it isn't all positive is wrong.
My comment about Fiedlerheaven relfects the controlling influence on this board. They obviously control what the rest of us are entitled to.

DrAstroZoom
10-14-2003, 10:08 AM
I see where you're coming from, fin-atic ... I just think "censorship" is a really serious charge here. Neither anti-Fiedler nor pro-Fielder views are being suppressed or deleted, just moved.

Let me just leave you with an anecdote that illustrates (I think) why this move is a good thing. I visited a Carolina Panthers message board recently. Now, here is a team that, as I pointed out in another thread (see it here (http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24688)), should be classified as having a worse passing situation than we do. Yet, I had to scroll five pages before I found a QB-related thread.

Meanwhile, on this board, on a given day, 60-70 percent of the threads per page could be about Fiedler. Whether or not that's a healthy fixation is a debate for another thread, but when you consider how the debate DOMINATES discussion, it makes sense to move it for the sake of organization.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

fin-atic
10-14-2003, 10:15 AM
Here are three current articles about the Fiedler topic. I think it is contemprary and is a big issue. If it is front page material for them it is front page material for us. It is what people want to talk about. And censorship is not just elimination, it is also filtering. And this is defintely filtering.

I appreciate and repect the 1st class way you conducted this discussion. It proves that people can disagree without it disolving into a nasty experience.

I am your Dolphin friend and love your stuff. But on this we will just agree to disagree on some parts of it.

Sun Sentinel (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-dolphins14oct14,0,2936874.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front)

Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/7008111.htm)

Palm Beach Post (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/auto/epaper/editions/tuesday/sports_f3b8b6e174ba71970053.html)

Muck
10-14-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by fin-atic
The move was made in response to all the whining about "Fieder Bashing". The whiners compained enough that the change happened.

I think you've missed the mark here, fin-atic. The Fiedler "Huggers" seemed to start more threads than the "Bashers" (and you won't see me using those terms anymore). Far more. It was just as big or bigger part of the a problem.

This move wasn't made because of one side or the other. It was a reaction to all sides. It was because #1) some of us can't exercise tact #2) It made this forum almost one-dimensional.

You may not have a problem with it. You might not mind wading thru it all. But it appears that the majority of people did.....and stopped visiting/posting...or sharply decreased. I don't know about you, but I don't want our readership to decrease.

As stated in the subtext of that forum, we really didn't want to do this. But we didn't want things to continue the way they were either. Those other boards can think whatever they like. I personally have no interest in them because they're too rowdy for my taste. That atmosphere is unappealing to me. They allow smack on the main forum. They let things go further much than we do.

IMO, those are typical message boards. And that's not the dynamic we're after. We are not a typical message board. And I like to think that has something to do with why...in your own words...."no one ever goes to the other forums. Not in any volume."

I'm sorry you feel you the way you about this. I really wish we could please everyone, all the time. But you and I know that's just not possible. We aren't trying to persecute or censor anybody. The last thing we want to do is increase our workload just for the heck of it. As if this job isn't time-consuming enough already. We made this move because we feel it will benefit us overall and make for a more enjoyable experience.

I appreciate and respect your thoughts and views, and the fact that you care so much.

rickykicks@$$
10-14-2003, 11:39 AM
I agree 100% with fin-atic. I think having the ability to talk about the problems this team has is very important. Right now Jay is a big problem we are Dolphin fans and at this point in the season this is our issue. I will go out on a limb here and say that most would agree our O is........well not good, but to take away the ability to discuss this by moving any topic that involves Jay makes no sense.

What are we to talk about that wont make more work for the MODS or offend "some" members? Maybe with being a member you should send a hand book on forum edict becuase it is getting hard to talk about football without having someone (MODS) stepping in and flexing authority. I have not read anything on this site that is beyond reason, some harsh childish remarks yes, but thats about it so to go to this extreme is a bit over the top.

Muck
10-14-2003, 11:47 AM
It's not like you can't mention Fiedler's name in a thread. Or even make a point in a thead. But if the thread is solely about Jay or becomes that way, you know the rest.

DrAstroZoom
10-14-2003, 11:49 AM
Since when does moving = deleting or filtering?

Surferosa
10-14-2003, 11:55 AM
Wow. Great great post Muck. Would like to hear Finatic's retort.

FinHeavenAJ
10-14-2003, 01:34 PM
Look, this is in no way a step toward censorship. If we really wanted to do that (which we wouldn't) then why did we create a forum that anyone can access? If we wanted to, we could have easily deleted the threads and that's that. But we didn't, we chose to allow the debates go on.

In our opinion, the great Fiedler debate was taking over the rest of the forum. There would be 20 threads, and 15 of them would be solely on Fiedler. That meant that other discussions were not being viewed... And, more and more people tired of the debate were getting frustrated. It is a problem to weed through threads to find something you're interested in. Surely, you could look over one or two threads or posts... but when it starts to overwhelm the site... action should be taken... IMO...

Also, as Muck pointed out... we're not your typical message boards. When I first came online, the majority of forums back then had one or two forums, and everything was allowed. To me, it was total chaos. I could never find the discussion I started, because it would be several pages back.

Thus is one reason, out of many, that I started the forums. Thus is also why they are run the way they are now. To me, and to many others on the board, they appreciate having seperate forums for different topics of interest... in order to keep the forums well organized. We do not try and censor things, we simply move it to the appropriate place.

Now, as said... you can mention Fiedler or whatever in a thread; however, if that posts leads to a HUGE debate and never get's back on track, it will be split into the Fiedler thread. The mods and I will try and get it back on track... but if not, as said, it will be split.

I hope everyone understands... sorry for being to the point... but I'm at school... and now I'm getting something to eat... :lol:

Thanks...

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum

Coral Reefer
10-14-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by DOLPHAN1
it speaks volumes that a seperate thread had to be made for this....

Not ripping the site or Mods....
This site is great and eveyone does a great job giving us a forum to discuss our team.

This decision I do not understand however.

Any time there is a debate on any player is there going to be a seperate forum?

Start the OL forum now and the Chris Chambers forum now since there are threads debating these players as well.

What's the difference?

Because this is one of the hottest topics in Dolphin football right now it has to be removed..... :goof:

DrAstroZoom
10-14-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Trekbiz
Because this is one of the hottest topics in Dolphin football right now it has to be removed..... :goof:

No ... not removed ... moved.


Originally posted by FinHeavenAJ
In our opinion, the great Fiedler debate was taking over the rest of the forum. There would be 20 threads, and 15 of them would be solely on Fiedler.

This pretty well explains it ...

fin-atic
10-14-2003, 03:13 PM
My retort is simple, I disagree. As many times as this forum has been saturated with Fiedler threads at various points I don't understand the need to change things now. I know you as Mods don't consider it filtering our censorship. But the fact is the other forums get a fraction of the traffic as the main forum does. To remove discussion about what is arguably the hottest topic in Dolphin football right now just doesn't seem right. What are you trying to move it to get to? It seems to be what people want to talk about.

Whatever. I am not hostile about this. It just seems that everyone is reacting because a few people started to threaten to leave the board and were complaining. As illustrated above and I am sure more than what is represented, there are many who believe I have a vallid point.

By the way I gladly defend this board on the other sites. My point was not to say we should be like them. My point is moderation is good, but in Moderation. Sometimes we can be so influenced by a few select that we get away from what a forum is supposed to be about.

So I am done with it. I have had my say, and the Mods have made their decision. I am disappointed though.

I am moving on to New England. I just hope Jay throws for more than 150...JUST KIDDING!!!!:):)

Muck
10-14-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Trekbiz


Any time there is a debate on any player is there going to be a seperate forum?

Start the OL forum now and the Chris Chambers forum now since there are threads debating these players as well.

What's the difference?



With all due respect, I don't see the OL or Chris Chambers debates dominating the forums.....or causing such heated discussion or turmoil.

jetssuckSr
10-14-2003, 08:00 PM
Muck,

Question for you and other mods

Why are threads with the sole purpose of complaining about "Jay Haters" being left in the main forum?

Muck
10-14-2003, 08:50 PM
If they are still there, it is not intentional.

Miamian
10-14-2003, 08:55 PM
Fin-atic's point is well taken and he has shown, like he has many other times, that he's not interested in trading smack, but would rather engage in intelligent, thoughtful debate.

I have to go with the mods though. Sometimes the same drivel and vitriol get repeated over and over and over again. I personally find a seven-page forum rather intimidating.

If nothing else happens, hopefully the Jay-obsessed (pro and con) will stay in the Jay forum and leave the others to those of us interested in talking about the team in a civil, intelligent manner.

jetssuckSr
10-14-2003, 08:59 PM
No, they're gone all of a sudden.


But there were a few left there over the past two days and I was just wondering if the Jay Fiedler forum was created to keep those of us un-happy with him off of the main forum. So far it appears so.

Muck
10-14-2003, 09:09 PM
Exactly. It's one big conspiracy. You got us. :rolleyes:

Hey, I wonder who reported all two of the remaining threads we missed. :hmmm:

inFINSible
10-14-2003, 09:16 PM
It seems to me that if people were interested in discussing Jay Fielder ad nauseum they would be flocking to the new forum.....by your own admission there is no one interested, so why do you feel like you need to force feed this topic to the ones who are sick of hearing the same crap all the time?

Is it just that there's nobody there to argue with? Are you bored?

If you feel like this forum was created to keep you off the main forum it wasn't.....if you want to post about any Dolphin related topics other than Jay Fiedler, I'm sure the main forum will be available for you as well as it is for any other member. ...and conversely, if you would like to talk about Jay Fiedler.....You have a nice forum to do it in and ANY other member is allowed to post there if they are INTERESTED in discussing the same topic.

It's really quite a good idea. I know you are smart enough to see that.

jetssuckSr
10-14-2003, 09:33 PM
Hey, I wonder who reported all two of the remaining threads we missed


Probably the same poster that will continue to report them;)


One standard for all posters, all I ask.

Barbarian
10-15-2003, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Muck


With all due respect, I don't see the OL or Chris Chambers debates dominating the forums.....or causing such heated discussion or turmoil.

Thats because I have been to busy to start a dozen debates about how pathetic our O-line is playing right now. ;)

M-REAL
10-15-2003, 10:54 AM
Thank God for the Mods! This was a good idea.:D