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kpcane
04-25-2009, 05:12 PM
4 of the top 9 picks are from the ACC. I guess the NFL doesn't buy the media bias.

nyjunc
04-26-2009, 08:36 AM
It amazes me that year after year the ACC keeps producing top picks and yet our teams can never put it together on the field. I do think that is changing in the coming years but the play on the field this decade has been baffling.

kpcane
04-26-2009, 10:12 AM
I'm not saying that any of our teams are going to be the best team in the nation at any point, but I think this shows the incredible depth of the ACC. People look past the ACC, some say we don't deserve a BCS bid, and that we're the worst conference. But when you consider that the ACC winner didn't even produce a 1st or 2nd rounder, and that teams like Maryland, BC, Wake Forest, and Virginia all have a top 10 guy on their team, it shows how tough every single game in that conference can be.
I think it's been pretty close over the past two years, but I think that this is the year that the ACC passes the SEC in top to bottom depth, but I still think the SEC will have a better set of elite teams at the top. But watch out if UM and FSU return to their old ways.

Namor
04-27-2009, 10:25 AM
SEC still had the most players selected.

Ferretsquig
04-30-2009, 12:10 AM
There's a little difference between producing good players and producing good teams. Al Groh does a good job grooming kids for the NFL but is a lousy coach. Even Bunting turned out some decent prospects during his abysmal tenure at UNC. Unfortunately he couldn't recruit so that list grew smaller as the years went by, but he was still a good teacher.

Namor
04-30-2009, 10:53 AM
Butch Davis is the best recruiter in the ACC...I have to admitt I was wrong,I thought Butch was using UNC as springboard to another job.He will build UNC into a ACC power.
I'm a Bama alum and fan,but the Canes are probaly my second favorite team.
Look at what has happened to Miami since Butch left!Sure they won a Nat'l championship,but that one really is Butches'.
I think Shannon is a good cordinator and will recruit well because of the talent
in Fla.I (just my opinon) don't think he is or will ever be a elite coach.
Paul Johnson at Ga. tech will build good teams but won't recruite great offensive players that goes to the pros because of the option.
I think there will be a shift in power in the ACC over the next few years.

Namor
04-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm not saying that any of our teams are going to be the best team in the nation at any point, but I think this shows the incredible depth of the ACC. People look past the ACC, some say we don't deserve a BCS bid, and that we're the worst conference. But when you consider that the ACC winner didn't even produce a 1st or 2nd rounder, and that teams like Maryland, BC, Wake Forest, and Virginia all have a top 10 guy on their team, it shows how tough every single game in that conference can be.
I think it's been pretty close over the past two years, but I think that this is the year that the ACC passes the SEC in top to bottom depth, but I still think the SEC will have a better set of elite teams at the top. But watch out if UM and FSU return to their old ways.

No..The SEC will only get stronger top to bottom.
The new CBS/ESPN -15yr 2.25 BILLION dollar deal will add 20 million a year
to each SEC school.
Look at the coaches in the SEC and what they make.That will only go up
in the next few years.
It's not about media bias,it's about money.

kpcane
04-30-2009, 07:07 PM
No..The SEC will only get stronger top to bottom.
The new CBS/ESPN -15yr 2.25 BILLION dollar deal will add 20 million a year
to each SEC school.
Look at the coaches in the SEC and what they make.That will only go up
in the next few years.
It's not about media bias,it's about money.


Ok, you're looking at long-term, I'm talking about over the next couple of years.

Let's just look at one example - Vanderbilt. A 7-6 team in the SEC (4-4 in conference). Lost to Duke and Wake Forest (beat BC in a bowl game, but I don't think meaningless bowl games are a good standard by which to judge). Wake Forest was 4-4 in the ACC, Duke was 1-7.

Vanderbilt finished 3rd in their division, tied with South Carolina (who lost at Clemson and beat NC State). Behind them was Tennessee and Kentucky. Ahead of them was Florida and Georgia (who lost to Ga. Tech.). Clearly this wasn't a strong division top to bottom, however the top team did become the MNC. But the overall depth wasn't there.

In the other division you have Alabama at the top, followed by Mississippi (who lost at Wake Forest). LSU was after them. They had a poor conference record, but it's hard to analyze their performance because they didn't play any good OOC teams. Then Arkansas, Auburn, and Ms. State all followed with 2-6 in conference records, with OOC losses as well.

So as you can see, the SEC was not deep at all last year. They had two very good teams UF and Alabama, but not a whole lot after that.

Namor
05-01-2009, 12:01 AM
Fla,Ala and Miss.will be in the preseson top 10..SI has Ole' Miss at #7...hard to imagine.Plus last year the SEC was young.New coaches will help.Last year was a down year..thats just one year and we still had the National Champs.3rd year in a row.Probably again this year.
It was a young conference last year and we still had the most players drafted.
CBS and ESPN didn't spend 2.25 billion for a two team conference.They did it because
the SEC was fixing to start their own network.CBS and ESPN was not about to go
into the college season having to schedule ACC/Big 10 or whoever against a channel
of SEC games.If the ACC was top to bottom better,where is their TV deal?
Past,Present and the Future the SEC is still the meat grinder conference.
They better hope the National Championship never goes to a playoff system because
the SEC is built for that type of play.
Listen,I don't want to argue..because i like Miami,Butch Davis and Paul Johnson.
But i don't worry about losing Nick Saban to a ACC school.
All schools have players go to the pros.I look at National championships.
I'll give you your arguement top to bottom LASt year the SEC was down because of
youth,but this coming up year will be back to normal.
We can check it out first game, Virgina Tech vs Bama. in Ga.
It will be a good one.
Heres to a great year for both conferences.

kpcane
05-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Well, you obviously want to argue, or you wouldn't have prefaced that statement with a lengthy argument.

I don't care if Ole Miss is ranked #1. They lost to Wake Forest last year, a team that went .500 in the ACC. It seems that everytime I have the ACC/SEC argument, it always boils down to "but we're the SEC", we're always the best top to bottom, without addressing the games I've mentioned. But when you look at the regular season games, you see a much different story. The SEC is by far the most popular conference, THAT'S why they're getting the TV deal. You think ESPN would rather show you a great football game, or make a ton of money off a game? Or, let me guess, you honestly believe that TV deals are given to conferences based on how good they are top to bottom. Give me a break.

I'm very much looking forward to the Va. Tech/Bama game. If you thought the SEC was young last year, you should've taken a look at the ACC. Va. Tech, FSU, UNC, and Miami were all very young last year. I'm also looking forward to Ga Tech/GA, and FSU/UF.

TedSlimmJr
05-04-2009, 03:14 AM
Ole Miss BARELY lost to WF...on the road....in what was a great game....it came down to one play basically.....and it was before Ole Miss really started to come together and roll.....and before WF began to falter....

Good thing they didn't play later in the season....Ole Miss probably wins by two touchdowns....

BTW.....did GT ever get the license number of that purple and yellow steam engine that blew them out of the Peach Bowl?

Has Clemson even recovered yet from the crunch fest Bama put on them in Death Valley? lol

The bottom line is the SEC is the driving force behind college football.....where else does 80,000 fans show up for a spring game? Where else do you see over 1,500 media outlets show up for media day? Nowhere...


The ACC always has good speed on defense....I've always said that....but really.....comparing a basketball conference to the powerhouse known as the (S)ports (E)lite (C)onference is probably getting a little out of hand...lol

Namor nailed it....what you're going to see again in 2009 is the SEC win a 4th straight NC and the sequel to Florida rolling over the Big 12's sacrificial lamb in Oklahoma again....

Roll Tide homies...

nyjunc
05-04-2009, 05:31 AM
Before Ole Miss really started to come together? a couple of weeks later they'd beat UF so obviously they had some potential.

Didn't about 100,000 fans turn out in Columbus for OSUs spring game? It's not the rest of the Country's fault that in the South they have nothing better to do than watch an intrasquad scrimmage in April.:up:

The SEC clearly has regained it's throne as the best conf in CFB but the ACC is getting better. it's taken some time since expansion but finally it appears to be nearing the top conferences.

kpcane
05-04-2009, 06:10 AM
Ole Miss BARELY lost to WF...on the road....in what was a great game....it came down to one play basically.....and it was before Ole Miss really started to come together and roll.....and before WF began to falter....

Good thing they didn't play later in the season....Ole Miss probably wins by two touchdowns....

BTW.....did GT ever get the license number of that purple and yellow steam engine that blew them out of the Peach Bowl?

Has Clemson even recovered yet from the crunch fest Bama put on them in Death Valley? lol

The bottom line is the SEC is the driving force behind college football.....where else does 80,000 fans show up for a spring game? Where else do you see over 1,500 media outlets show up for media day? Nowhere...


The ACC always has good speed on defense....I've always said that....but really.....comparing a basketball conference to the powerhouse known as the (S)ports (E)lite (C)onference is probably getting a little out of hand...lol

Namor nailed it....what you're going to see again in 2009 is the SEC win a 4th straight NC and the sequel to Florida rolling over the Big 12's sacrificial lamb in Oklahoma again....

Roll Tide homies...

Oh, ok, they barely lost?? Oh, ok. And they would've beaten them later in the season, you said? Oh ok. I guess that game that they actually played meant nothing, because Ole Miss is just better. They're in the SEC. If they played later, they would've killed them. And when they did play, it was pretty much luck that Wake Forest actually won. Got ya.

And for some reason, that Chick Fil A bowl game definitely holds more water than Ga Tech actually beating GA in the regular season. If you want to argue that meaningless bowl games are more indicative of talent than regular season games, by all means continue to do so.

Realize I was talking top-to-bottom depth. I acknowledged Bama and UF were elite, and we couldn't compete with them, but have a team like South Carolina play Clemson, and well, you see the results.

The SEC isn't the driving force behind college football. This is the same stupid argument Yankees fans give. The media is the driving force behind everything. And if they want to pimp the Yankees, Red Sox, SEC, La Lakers, then that's what people will 'care' about. Funny how once the media started controlling who gets to the championship game, the SEC has been piling up the appearances. And that you actually think that Florida 'rolled' Oklahoma last year, just shows how much of a homer you are.

TedSlimmJr
05-04-2009, 06:21 AM
Before Ole Miss really started to come together? a couple of weeks later they'd beat UF so obviously they had some potential.

Didn't about 100,000 fans turn out in Columbus for OSUs spring game? It's not the rest of the Country's fault that in the South they have nothing better to do than watch an intrasquad scrimmage in April.:up:

The SEC clearly has regained it's throne as the best conf in CFB but the ACC is getting better. it's taken some time since expansion but finally it appears to be nearing the top conferences.

You're making my point kinda....

Ole Miss played WF in the second game of the season....Jevan Snead's SECOND career start.....the SECOND game of Houston Nutts offense...

Of course Ole Miss had potential....they had top 10 potential.....WF didn't....I knew Ole Miss was going to beat TT.....I called it 2 months before anybody even knew they would end up playing each other in a bowl game....when everyone was hyping the Big 12 and all their high flying gimmick offenses....they get stomped when they play against an SEC defense...

Oh...and don't go there about the south with the typical yankme propoganda....I've lived up north....trust me it's the stench you have to get over when you walk outside....

TedSlimmJr
05-04-2009, 06:30 AM
Oh, ok, they barely lost?? Oh, ok. And they would've beaten them later in the season, you said? Oh ok. I guess that game that they actually played meant nothing, because Ole Miss is just better. They're in the SEC. If they played later, they would've killed them. And when they did play, it was pretty much luck that Wake Forest actually won. Got ya.

And for some reason, that Chick Fil A bowl game definitely holds more water than Ga Tech actually beating GA in the regular season. If you want to argue that meaningless bowl games are more indicative of talent than regular season games, by all means continue to do so.

Realize I was talking top-to-bottom depth. I acknowledged Bama and UF were elite, and we couldn't compete with them, but have a team like South Carolina play Clemson, and well, you see the results.

The SEC isn't the driving force behind college football. This is the same stupid argument Yankees fans give. The media is the driving force behind everything. And if they want to pimp the Yankees, Red Sox, SEC, La Lakers, then that's what people will 'care' about. Funny how once the media started controlling who gets to the championship game, the SEC has been piling up the appearances. And that you actually think that Florida 'rolled' Oklahoma last year, just shows how much of a homer you are.

The fact that Georgia plays a tougher non conference schedule is also what keeps them out of NC picture every year....the conference battles in the SEC are tough enough as it is....and Georgia's injuries piling up every year can be attributed to that....you have to give yourself a break now and then....

It's not just Florida.....Oklahoma always gets beat in BCS games for the most part it seems like.....beat by Boise....absolutely hammered by USC....and that's AFTER they didn't even win their conference....and you're bitching about the SEC getting the NC appearances? lol........when's the last time they won a BCS game anyway?

I know people love to hate the SEC....that's what makes it so great....but they can't do anything about it on the football field....

Hey maybe the Hurricokes will become good enough one of these days to earn the right to get slaughtered by an SEC team in a bowl game....err...wait.....don't get your hopes up....:lol:

kpcane
05-04-2009, 06:38 AM
I know people love to hate the SEC....that's what makes it so great....but they can't do anything about it on the football field....

Hey maybe the Hurricokes will become good enough one of these days to earn the right to get slaughtered by an SEC team in a bowl game....err...wait.....don't get your hopes up....:lol:

Uh, have you read anything I just wrote? That's my point, the ACC continually beats the SEC in those things they call football games, but for some reason, the SEC is so much better. I guess winning the actual games means nothing.

How about you don't get your hopes up for Bama winning a NC anytime soon. I know it's been awhile. You can say your in-conference games are tough, but I think the ACC's are just as tough, for the reasons I've already stated. I think we're a better top to bottom conference. Nonbiased conference rankings agree with me. And what's our OOC schedule this year? Oklahoma, USF, UCF. I'd much rather have ANY SEC team's schedule than ours.

TedSlimmJr
05-04-2009, 06:55 AM
Uh, have you read anything I just wrote? That's my point, the ACC continually beats the SEC in those things they call football games, but for some reason, the SEC is so much better. I guess winning the actual games means nothing.

How about you don't get your hopes up for Bama winning a NC anytime soon. I know it's been awhile. You can say your in-conference games are tough, but I think the ACC's are just as tough, for the reasons I've already stated. I think we're a better top to bottom conference. Nonbiased conference rankings agree with me. And what's our OOC schedule this year? Oklahoma, USF, UCF. I'd much rather have ANY SEC team's schedule than ours.

Well....playing Oklahoma again is probably going to result in another 40 point beatdown or so like last time for the Cokes....so I can see where you're coming from there...lol

Been 17 years to be exact since Bama won the title....I know that's probably a painful memory for Coke fans too....lmao

The SEC beats the tar out of the ACC's "elite" teams almost always....

kpcane
05-04-2009, 07:03 AM
The SEC beats the tar out of the ACC's "elite" teams almost always....

I agree. That's not the point I'm trying to make. I think week in, week out, ACC teams have a tougher time than SEC teams. I mean when Vandy and South Carolina (teams that both lost to ACC opponents last year) are tied for third in one division, and the 3rd through 6th teams have sub .500 records in the other division, it's pretty hard to disagree. But keep going if you'd like.

TedSlimmJr
05-04-2009, 07:12 AM
I think the difference is that it's easier for the lesser ACC teams to beat the middle of the pack, or upper echelon ACC teams on a regular basis than it is for the lesser SEC teams to beat the middle of the pack, or upper echelon SEC teams on a regular basis....

I don't think that the ACC is better top to bottom....I just think the SEC teams are more consistent....which is probably directly attributed to the difference in coaching from the ACC to the SEC as well....

kpcane
05-04-2009, 11:16 AM
I think the difference is that it's easier for the lesser ACC teams to beat the middle of the pack, or upper echelon ACC teams on a regular basis than it is for the lesser SEC teams to beat the middle of the pack, or upper echelon SEC teams on a regular basis....

I don't think that the ACC is better top to bottom....I just think the SEC teams are more consistent....which is probably directly attributed to the difference in coaching from the ACC to the SEC as well....

That's probably true also. But our middle of the pack seems to be beating the SEC's middle of the pack lately. It's all media hype.

DaDolfan25
05-04-2009, 08:02 PM
The ACC has always had and always will have top notch talent. They just do not have the coaching to capitalize on it and produce in college. Take Al Groh for example, he is always producing top tier talent for the draft but what has he done with that college. Also bobby bowden is another example. FSU always as top 10 recruiting classes. They always have players picked in the first couple rounds. But with all that, they have done nothing the past 6 or so years (mostly in part to bad QB play). Thats what seperates the ACC from the SEC. it is COACHING. Take a good look at the SEC coaches: meyer, richt, miles, saban, spurrier. These coaches not only get their players to produce in college, but in the pros as well. The media is biased A LOT of the time, especially ESPN, but in this case they are not to blame. Put the blame on the ones who deserve it, the COACHES.

nick1
05-05-2009, 10:33 AM
The ACC has always had and always will have top notch talent. They just do not have the coaching to capitalize on it and produce in college. Take Al Groh for example, he is always producing top tier talent for the draft but what has he done with that college. Also bobby bowden is another example. FSU always as top 10 recruiting classes. They always have players picked in the first couple rounds. But with all that, they have done nothing the past 6 or so years (mostly in part to bad QB play). Thats what seperates the ACC from the SEC. it is COACHING. Take a good look at the SEC coaches: meyer, richt, miles, saban, spurrier. These coaches not only get their players to produce in college, but in the pros as well. The media is biased A LOT of the time, especially ESPN, but in this case they are not to blame. Put the blame on the ones who deserve it, the COACHES.

well just wait until UNC becomes a powerhouse under Butch Davis it will happen, I like to think the Canes are nearing their once dominate selfs again. the definition of not living up to talent level is Clemson they should have been a top team last season but were greatly inconsistent

Namor
05-05-2009, 10:34 AM
The ACC has always had and always will have top notch talent. They just do not have the coaching to capitalize on it and produce in college. Take Al Groh for example, he is always producing top tier talent for the draft but what has he done with that college. Also bobby bowden is another example. FSU always as top 10 recruiting classes. They always have players picked in the first couple rounds. But with all that, they have done nothing the past 6 or so years (mostly in part to bad QB play). Thats what seperates the ACC from the SEC. it is COACHING. Take a good look at the SEC coaches: meyer, richt, miles, saban, spurrier. These coaches not only get their players to produce in college, but in the pros as well. The media is biased A LOT of the time, especially ESPN, but in this case they are not to blame. Put the blame on the ones who deserve it, the COACHES.

Big time post,dude.
That's the best explaination I've heard so far.
Excellant job.

Namor
05-05-2009, 10:39 AM
well just wait until UNC becomes a powerhouse under Butch Davis it will happen, I like to think the Canes are nearing their once dominate selfs again. the definition of not living up to talent level is Clemson they should have been a top team last season but were greatly inconsistent
UNC will be a power because of Davis.
The Canes will not (and I like the Canes)because I don't consider Shannon
a elite coach.The Canes deserve a elite coach like Davis.
Thats just my opinion.

kpcane
05-05-2009, 12:36 PM
The ACC has always had and always will have top notch talent. They just do not have the coaching to capitalize on it and produce in college. Take Al Groh for example, he is always producing top tier talent for the draft but what has he done with that college. Also bobby bowden is another example. FSU always as top 10 recruiting classes. They always have players picked in the first couple rounds. But with all that, they have done nothing the past 6 or so years (mostly in part to bad QB play). Thats what seperates the ACC from the SEC. it is COACHING. Take a good look at the SEC coaches: meyer, richt, miles, saban, spurrier. These coaches not only get their players to produce in college, but in the pros as well. The media is biased A LOT of the time, especially ESPN, but in this case they are not to blame. Put the blame on the ones who deserve it, the COACHES.

Coaches? You think Frank Beamer can't capitalize on talent? The first time he had a great player they went to the national title game. The only reason that Va Tech is ever good is because of Frank Beamer.
Bobby Bowden - I mean what can you say about the guy. He's won national titles, we all know about the career wins total, and he's always had great teams, except for the past couple years. He won more national titles than Saban, Miles, or Spurrier ever did, and just as many as Meyer (although he inherited a ton of talent, just like Miles). Richt hasn't really even done much either, except continue to produce teams that underachieve.
Butch Davis built Miami up after probation, and he's slowly building UNC up as well.
The only coach I think that argument actually works for is the Bowden that was just at Clemson. I don't think Virginia's ever had a great deal of talent on their team, but it's a credit to Al Groh for still developing a few great players out there.
Randy Shannon and Paul Johnson haven't been at their programs long enough to judge. Given the enormous level of success Randy Shannon has had at every other thing he's ever done with his life, it's hard to imagine he's going to struggle now. The talent he's brought in is incredible, and the fact that he's already developed competing teams is a credit to him.
And even after all this debate about coaches and what not, the issue of the ACC teams beating the SEC teams is still not being discussed.

dolfanchris
05-05-2009, 01:36 PM
my question is who has meyer gotten to produce in the NFL ????

Namor
05-05-2009, 02:29 PM
All time record SEC vs ACC -251-117-10....(SEC)
Last 10 years 41-30-0..... (SEC)
2008 SEC vs ACC 6-6...good job ACC
2007 SEC vs ACC 4-3....slight edge to SEC
2006 SEC vs ACC 5-1..."Rut, Ro, Raggy"....going to go with the SEC here.
I just don't see where you are getting this "ACC is beating the SEC on the field"from?

kpcane
05-05-2009, 03:11 PM
All time record SEC vs ACC -251-117-10....(SEC)
Last 10 years 41-30-0..... (SEC)
2008 SEC vs ACC 6-6...good job ACC
2007 SEC vs ACC 4-3....slight edge to SEC
2006 SEC vs ACC 5-1..."Rut, Ro, Raggy"....going to go with the SEC here.
I just don't see where you are getting this "ACC is beating the SEC on the field"from?

That's because you either have an obvious reading disorder, or didn't even read my previous arguments. I said the elite teams are better than ours (3 of those 6 wins were from Florida and Bama) and that I don't consider meaningless bowl games to be a factor for various reasons (which 2 of the others were). So that leaves South Carolina over NC State. A good win for the SEC, but over the course of the season, the ACC proved to be deeper. I never said they've always been better, I said last year they were. And I expect this year the ACC will be even better top to bottom than the SEC. I don't know how else I can rephrase this, but as long as you're going to bring up things I didn't say, or are irrelevant, I can't respond with anything new.

Namor
05-05-2009, 03:58 PM
"Uh, have you read anything I just wrote? That's my point, the ACC continually beats the SEC in those things they call football games, but for some reason, the SEC is so much better. I guess winning the actual games means nothing"
This is you're quote....how is my reading disorder acting up now?
You want to argue the ACC is deeper top to bottom....another one of your
statements,but you want to pick and chose what games to back up your
argument.If you want say the middle of the road ACC teams are as good as or
better than the middle of the SEC teams,well say that then...because thats
the games you keep bringing up.
Top to bottom records,Nat'l championships,attendance,coaching,recruiting titles,
TV money,players on NFL teams,...the SEC is ahead of the ACC...
Please....show me where the ACC as good as the SEC.
Only three SEC teams have losing records All-time against the ACC (Ark,Miss. St.
and S.C)

kpcane
05-05-2009, 05:06 PM
LOL, well, seeing as how the FIRST thing I wrote was that I said I thought the ACC was better top to bottom, I didn't think I needed to repeat that every single time. But apparently, I did.

Please, don't bring up national championships and players in the NFL. Miami surpasses them all, and you know that. Don't be foolish. But that's not the point I'm making.

For the last time, the point I'm making is that the ACC is better top to bottom. Hopefully I don't need to say that anymore. I'm sure you can find some quotes that doesn't say that exactly, so I'm letting you know right now, because you didn't read my first post (even though you responded to it).

Namor
05-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Prove it or it is just a stupid opinion.
Alabama has 12 titles by theirself.
Don't get me wrong ,the Canes are my second fav team behind my Tide.
A Bama man built that program.

Namor
05-05-2009, 05:44 PM
That's probably true also. But our middle of the pack seems to be beating the SEC's middle of the pack lately. It's all media hype
(This is your quote,please prove it with facts)

And even after all this debate about coaches and what not, the issue of the ACC teams beating the SEC teams is still not being discussed.
(Again,your quote...What ACC teams are running roughshed over the SEC?)

Uh, have you read anything I just wrote? That's my point, the ACC continually beats the SEC in those things they call football games, but for some reason, the SEC is so much better. I guess winning the actual games means nothing
(Are you going to say this isn't your quote?)You said this...Now prove it or shut the
**** up.

kpcane
05-05-2009, 06:06 PM
It really is extremely boring to repeat myself over and over. You already said they were 6-6 against each other, then I excluded 3 games because I said we can't compete with the elite of the SEC, 2 because of meaningless bowl games, and the 1 other was USC over NC St. So what about the 6 wins for the ACC?

Post 8 -
"Let's just look at one example - Vanderbilt. A 7-6 team in the SEC (4-4 in conference). Lost to Duke and Wake Forest (beat BC in a bowl game, but I don't think meaningless bowl games are a good standard by which to judge). Wake Forest was 4-4 in the ACC, Duke was 1-7.

Vanderbilt finished 3rd in their division, tied with South Carolina (who lost at Clemson and beat NC State). Behind them was Tennessee and Kentucky. Ahead of them was Florida and Georgia (who lost to Ga. Tech.). Clearly this wasn't a strong division top to bottom, however the top team did become the MNC. But the overall depth wasn't there."

There's 4 wins I've already mentioned.

Post 13 -
"Realize I was talking top-to-bottom depth. I acknowledged Bama and UF were elite, and we couldn't compete with them, but have a team like South Carolina play Clemson, and well, you see the results."

There's #5.

The only other one I didn't bring up was Ga Tech beating Mississippi St., because that's kinda pointless/expected, but now that I see that they beat Vanderbilt, maybe it wasn't.

See, all it takes is a little reading.

TedSlimmJr
05-05-2009, 09:20 PM
Coaches? You think Frank Beamer can't capitalize on talent? The first time he had a great player they went to the national title game. The only reason that Va Tech is ever good is because of Frank Beamer.
Bobby Bowden - I mean what can you say about the guy. He's won national titles, we all know about the career wins total, and he's always had great teams, except for the past couple years. He won more national titles than Saban, Miles, or Spurrier ever did, and just as many as Meyer (although he inherited a ton of talent, just like Miles). Richt hasn't really even done much either, except continue to produce teams that underachieve.
Butch Davis built Miami up after probation, and he's slowly building UNC up as well.
The only coach I think that argument actually works for is the Bowden that was just at Clemson. I don't think Virginia's ever had a great deal of talent on their team, but it's a credit to Al Groh for still developing a few great players out there.
Randy Shannon and Paul Johnson haven't been at their programs long enough to judge. Given the enormous level of success Randy Shannon has had at every other thing he's ever done with his life, it's hard to imagine he's going to struggle now. The talent he's brought in is incredible, and the fact that he's already developed competing teams is a credit to him.
And even after all this debate about coaches and what not, the issue of the ACC teams beating the SEC teams is still not being discussed.



With all due respect to Bobby Bowden....because I love the guy....(he's a Bama guy too)....Joe Paterno's accomplishments are much more impressive to me...

The ACC was a VERY weak conference for a long time....I think Bowden won like 14 or 15 CONSECUTIVE conference titles.....he had absolutely no competition in the ACC for the longest....there was FSU and nobody else...

No wonder the ACC wanted to bring in the likes of BC, VT, and Miami....because the conference had been a joke for too long...

The Big 10 has traditionally always been a tough conference....and Paterno's accomplishments he's achieved throughout his career, he's done without the luxury of having the hotbed of recruiting talent (Florida) right there at his disposal like Bowden did...

Bowden could simply stockpile talent....Paterno couldn't....and now that the playing field is more even....Bowden can't dominate like he used to....not even close...while Paterno STILL runs a class A program...and STILL wins...

You want to say Randy Shannon and Paul Johnson haven't been at their programs long enough to judge...but then throw out Les Miles, Urban Meyer, and Nick Saban as if they've been at their programs for 30 years...lol...Spurrier probably could've won at least 1 more NC at Florida if he hadn't taken a shot at the NFL....

I'll tell ya this much though.....I'd take Paul Johnson over Randy Shannon 7 days a week and twice on Saturdays.....he's a better coach....


...and as Namor pointed out....don't ever bring up National Championships and Miami vs. Alabama in the same sentence like that again.....that's like comparing a canoe to an air craft carrier....

Namor
05-05-2009, 09:20 PM
You can't exclude games to prove (top to bottom depth)
PERIOD.
It's meaningless if I even look at it your way.Even if your right it's
just one year.
"That's my point, the ACC continually beats the SEC in those things they call football games, but for some reason, the SEC is so much better. I guess winning the actual games means nothing"
This was your quote...Wheres the continually'?

Namor
05-05-2009, 09:28 PM
With all due respect to Bobby Bowden....because I love the guy....(he's a Bama guy too)....Joe Paterno's accomplishments are much more impressive to me...

The ACC was a VERY weak conference for a long time....I think Bowden won like 14 or 14 CONSECUTIVE conference titles.....he had absolutely no competition in the ACC for the longest....there was FSU and nobody else...

No wonder the ACC wanted to bring in the likes of BC, VT, and Miami....because the conference had been a joke for too long...

The Big 10 has traditionally always been a tough conference....and Paterno's accomplishments he's achieved throughout his career, he's done without the luxury of having the hotbed of recruiting talent (Florida) right there at his disposal like Bowden did...

Bowden could simply stockpile talent....Paterno couldn't....and now that the playing field is more even....Bowden can't dominate like he used to....not even close...while Paterno STILL runs a class A program...and STILL wins...

You want to say Randy Shannon and Paul Johnson haven't been at their programs long enough to judge...but then throw out Les Miles, Urban Meyer, and Nick Saban as if they've been at their programs for 30 years...lol...Spurrier probably could've won at least 1 more NC at Florida if he hadn't taken a shot at the NFL....

I'll tell ya this much though.....I'd take Paul Johnson over Randy Shannon 7 days a week and twice on Saturdays.....he's a better coach....


...and as Namor pointed out....don't ever bring up National Championships and Miami vs. Alabama in the same sentence like that again.....that's like comparing a canoe to an air craft carrier....

Sorry,Ted ,usally i agree with almost all you post about.
But Bobby Bowden is a piece of crap...I've meet him several times
thru my dad's business.
30 of his wins should not count because they were at Samford when they
wasn't a DIV-1 school.
He has done alot of dirty things at FSU.
With the talent they had over the years at FSU,he should have won about
5 titles...Bad coaching...Micky Andrews is the real deal there.
Another Bama guy.
Back to this silly ACC is even close to the SEC argument.
I'm still waiting for which ACC teams CONTINUALLY beats down SEC teams.

Namor
05-05-2009, 09:32 PM
With all due respect to Bobby Bowden....because I love the guy....(he's a Bama guy too)....Joe Paterno's accomplishments are much more impressive to me...

The ACC was a VERY weak conference for a long time....I think Bowden won like 14 or 14 CONSECUTIVE conference titles.....he had absolutely no competition in the ACC for the longest....there was FSU and nobody else...

No wonder the ACC wanted to bring in the likes of BC, VT, and Miami....because the conference had been a joke for too long...

The Big 10 has traditionally always been a tough conference....and Paterno's accomplishments he's achieved throughout his career, he's done without the luxury of having the hotbed of recruiting talent (Florida) right there at his disposal like Bowden did...

Bowden could simply stockpile talent....Paterno couldn't....and now that the playing field is more even....Bowden can't dominate like he used to....not even close...while Paterno STILL runs a class A program...and STILL wins...

You want to say Randy Shannon and Paul Johnson haven't been at their programs long enough to judge...but then throw out Les Miles, Urban Meyer, and Nick Saban as if they've been at their programs for 30 years...lol...Spurrier probably could've won at least 1 more NC at Florida if he hadn't taken a shot at the NFL....

I'll tell ya this much though.....I'd take Paul Johnson over Randy Shannon 7 days a week and twice on Saturdays.....he's a better coach....


...and as Namor pointed out....don't ever bring up National Championships and Miami vs. Alabama in the same sentence like that again.....that's like comparing a canoe to an air craft carrier....

My bad Ted ...I read your post wrong...
I do agree about Joe Pa,though.
Him or Bobby couldn't hold Bear's hat.

kpcane
05-06-2009, 12:31 PM
With all due respect to Bobby Bowden....because I love the guy....(he's a Bama guy too)....Joe Paterno's accomplishments are much more impressive to me...

The ACC was a VERY weak conference for a long time....I think Bowden won like 14 or 15 CONSECUTIVE conference titles.....he had absolutely no competition in the ACC for the longest....there was FSU and nobody else...

No wonder the ACC wanted to bring in the likes of BC, VT, and Miami....because the conference had been a joke for too long...

The Big 10 has traditionally always been a tough conference....and Paterno's accomplishments he's achieved throughout his career, he's done without the luxury of having the hotbed of recruiting talent (Florida) right there at his disposal like Bowden did...

Bowden could simply stockpile talent....Paterno couldn't....and now that the playing field is more even....Bowden can't dominate like he used to....not even close...while Paterno STILL runs a class A program...and STILL wins...

You want to say Randy Shannon and Paul Johnson haven't been at their programs long enough to judge...but then throw out Les Miles, Urban Meyer, and Nick Saban as if they've been at their programs for 30 years...lol...Spurrier probably could've won at least 1 more NC at Florida if he hadn't taken a shot at the NFL....

I'll tell ya this much though.....I'd take Paul Johnson over Randy Shannon 7 days a week and twice on Saturdays.....he's a better coach....


...and as Namor pointed out....don't ever bring up National Championships and Miami vs. Alabama in the same sentence like that again.....that's like comparing a canoe to an air craft carrier....

First on the national title thing - since 1980, Miami has 5 national titles, and Bama has 1. If you want to count those championships when there was like 5 teams in college football, then be my guest. Miami hasn't been around as long as Alabama, but when we started winning titles, Alabama stopped.

Funny about Paterno and Bowden. Yeah Bowden's been down for a few years, but it's nothing like Paterno at Penn State. They disappear for years at a time, and it's very easy to say Paterno is better than Bowden now, because Bowden is slumping for the first time in, uh ever, and Paterno has had nominal success. I think both are very impressive coaches, but Paterno NEVER dominated the college football landscape like Bowden did in the 90s.

Namor
05-06-2009, 01:19 PM
Just back it up three years..Bama won it in 78,79 ...Ga won in 80
another SEC team.
Bowden or Miami never dominated a Big Time Conferance (ACC please)
(the Big Least) like the Bear.
Both Fla. St and Miami were offered invatations to join the SEC when
S.C. and Ark joined,but they declined because they knew their chances
for a national championship would be greatly hampered.
Bet they would like that CBS/ESPN money now.
Hell,Miami can't even fill up a stadium for their games.
Bowden has 2 titles..one he didn't deserve...Nebraska won that game,
weird out of the blue illegal block on a touchdown.
The only real one he won was against another ACC school.

kpcane
05-06-2009, 01:19 PM
You can't exclude games to prove (top to bottom depth)
PERIOD.
It's meaningless if I even look at it your way.Even if your right it's
just one year.
"That's my point, the ACC continually beats the SEC in those things they call football games, but for some reason, the SEC is so much better. I guess winning the actual games means nothing"
This was your quote...Wheres the continually'?

Continually probably wasn't the best word to use. Especially for those that get obsessed on one word in particular, even if the rest of my argument was pretty clear. I only meant that they beat them throughout last year, in case you couldn't tell by my million other posts indicating as such.

I can exclude those if I want. I wasn't making a case for who has the most elite teams, and you of all people should know that bowl games aren't very meaningful (after Bama got thrashed by Utah last year). Do you really think that Utah was better than Alabama last year?

kpcane
05-06-2009, 01:24 PM
Just back it up three years..Bama won it in 78,79 ...Ga won in 80
another SEC team.
Bowden or Miami never dominated a Big Time Conferance (ACC please)
(the Big Least) like the Bear.
Both Fla. St and Miami were offered invatations to join the SEC when
S.C. and Ark joined,but they declined because they knew their chances
for a national championship would be greatly hampered.
Bet they would like that CBS/ESPN money now.
Hell,Miami can't even fill up a stadium for their games.
Bowden has 2 titles..one he didn't deserve...Nebraska won that game,
weird out of the blue illegal block on a touchdown.
The only real one he won was against another ACC school.

Yeah, and then go forward 20. You can say that neither school dominated, but the history books will say that Miami dominated the 80s, FSU dominated the 90s, and USC dominated this decade. The Pac 10 isn't that strong either, but just like the other two teams, USC is so much better than every other school in that conference right now.

The only major sports team in Miami that can fill up a stadium is the Dolphins, and sometimes that's questionable. Miami's a private school, and has about 10,000 students. And most of those kids are from up north (i.e. they go back after they graduate). Most of those SEC schools are public schools, and have very large fanbases. Still have absolutely no idea what that has to do with anything though.

Namor
05-06-2009, 01:45 PM
Bama grad..87 (engineer)
Went to school with Mike Shula.
My Dad's firm did the renovations to the Orange Bowl back in the 70's.
Thats why I'm a Dolphin fan.
My dad's firm has done engineering work for the Dolphins since they
started in the 60's
I've meet Danny Thomas,Joe Robbie,Wayne H,Jimmy Johnson and most
of the Miami officials thru the years.
Met Don Shula several times through Alabama and Miami.
Listen..I apologize for sounding like a ***...
I'm just defending my school and conferance with some facts
to the best of my ability.
Like I said before,I really like the Canes...I have a lot of ties
to Miami.

TedSlimmJr
05-06-2009, 10:03 PM
First on the national title thing - since 1980, Miami has 5 national titles, and Bama has 1. If you want to count those championships when there was like 5 teams in college football, then be my guest. Miami hasn't been around as long as Alabama, but when we started winning titles, Alabama stopped.

Funny about Paterno and Bowden. Yeah Bowden's been down for a few years, but it's nothing like Paterno at Penn State. They disappear for years at a time, and it's very easy to say Paterno is better than Bowden now, because Bowden is slumping for the first time in, uh ever, and Paterno has had nominal success. I think both are very impressive coaches, but Paterno NEVER dominated the college football landscape like Bowden did in the 90s.

LOL...you can bet that if Miami had even become significant before 1980 you'd be counting their titles too....but they weren't....don't hate just because Miami doesn't have the rich tradition to stack up against the teams that are the essence of college football and always have been...

...and as Namor pointed out...if it wasn't for a Bama guy to begin with....they still wouldn't be....in fact....Miami would probably be playing checkers instead of football right now...

Just don't ever forget that beatdown Bama put on those boys in the Sugar Bowl last time they met for the title....

Does all Notre Dame's title count? What about USC's, etc.?

All you can do is play and win under whatever current structure there is at the time....

TaCoB
06-23-2009, 08:07 AM
I just hope carolina can have decent football team for once in my lifetime

nyjunc
06-23-2009, 08:27 AM
I just hope carolina can have decent football team for once in my lifetime

They have had some good teams through the years. It's not too long ago(1996) that, if not for a 4th qtr collapse at UVa they may have played for a National Title(or at least been in a big time Bowl) and in '97 they finished in the top 10.

JCane
06-24-2009, 06:16 AM
We owe North Carolina an epic beating in Chapel Hill this season.

I will definitely be on-hand to witness that.

nyjunc
06-24-2009, 08:01 AM
The Heels will be the Canes again though for the better of the conf I wish Miami would regian it's old form along w/ FSU.

NorthFloridaFin
06-24-2009, 02:40 PM
FSU isn't far from being a NC contender again. We've got a hell of a lot of young studs on our team that contributed alot last year. Granted, we only won 9 games, but that is a big improvement from the past 4-5 years.

And on another note, since they are going to shaft my boy Bobby and take 14 wins from him, I think he needs to go ahead and hand the program on over to Jimbo and step aside. He has been a blessing for FSU and we are grateful to have had him all these years.

Ferretsquig
06-26-2009, 12:47 PM
I just hope carolina can have decent football team for once in my lifetime

You'd have to be pretty young to have not seen a decent Carolina team. In fact prior to Yates going down last year's squad was better than most. This year's team may be a bit young but by his 4th season it looks like Davis will have the team pretty well stocked with talented players.

VT Dolphan
07-04-2009, 02:07 PM
The ACC championship runs through Blacksburg...once again.

JCane
07-05-2009, 03:36 PM
The ACC championship runs through Blacksburg...once again.

And ends on 09.26 lol.

CedarPhin
07-05-2009, 06:29 PM
I think the Hurricanes finish 3rd or 4th in the division, but I hope that I'm wrong. I'm not the biggest optimist in the world.

VT Dolphan
07-05-2009, 10:27 PM
And ends on 09.26 lol.

We'll see, the last time VT played a powerhouse from the SEC it didn't end so well for us (LSU two years ago). But this is a much better team, Alabama may be distracted my their recent scandal and isn't half the team that LSU was back then. I'm nervously awaiting this game.

Even if we do lose to Bama, I still see us winning the division though. Boston College seems primed for a down year, especially with Herzlich out. Clemson and Florida State annually underachieve. Wake and UNC have nice teams, but I don't see them winning the division. I'm sure some Miami homers may disagree, but that team still isn't ready to contend.

JCane
07-05-2009, 11:54 PM
We'll see, the last time VT played a powerhouse from the SEC it didn't end so well for us (LSU two years ago). But this is a much better team, Alabama may be distracted my their recent scandal and isn't half the team that LSU was back then. I'm nervously awaiting this game.

Even if we do lose to Bama, I still see us winning the division though. Boston College seems primed for a down year, especially with Herzlich out. Clemson and Florida State annually underachieve. Wake and UNC have nice teams, but I don't see them winning the division. I'm sure some Miami homers may disagree, but that team still isn't ready to contend.

I think Alabama beats Virginia Tech. I'm a big believer in Nick Saban. He's the best coach in the land and you can't give that guy a full year to prepare for one team. You just can't do it. The few Tech friends I have are very concerned.

As far as the ACC goes, I don't know if we're ready to contend, but I think we will strike some fear into our opponents. This team is young and we are now equipped with a competent offensive coordinator who has the ability to make in-game adjustments. There's a lot of parity in the ACC so as always, I say it's up for grabs. But I'm pretty exicted about these young kids working with a truly experience offensive coordinator.

TedSlimmJr
07-06-2009, 05:14 AM
We'll see, the last time VT played a powerhouse from the SEC it didn't end so well for us (LSU two years ago). But this is a much better team, Alabama may be distracted my their recent scandal and isn't half the team that LSU was back then. I'm nervously awaiting this game.

Even if we do lose to Bama, I still see us winning the division though. Boston College seems primed for a down year, especially with Herzlich out. Clemson and Florida State annually underachieve. Wake and UNC have nice teams, but I don't see them winning the division. I'm sure some Miami homers may disagree, but that team still isn't ready to contend.


I don't know who wins this game...all I know is this....Bama's defense is every bit as good at that LSU defense was....

VT's bread and butter is running the football.....and I don't believe anybody in the country can run the football on Bama....not gonna happen...they couldn't do it last year and they certainly won't do it this year....Tyrod Taylor is going to have to win that football game for VT....

But it's not just Terrance Cody, Rolando McClain and Javier Arenas for Bama's defense....they're loaded everywhere....Kareem Jackson is one of the best cover corners in the country....and you'll know a lot more about him by the time the draft rolls around next April....I promise...

Brandon Deadrick is one of the most complete and disciplined DE's in the country....ask Tim Tebow....everytime Tebow tried to run against Bama in the SEC championship game....Deadrick was right there to get him and never let Tebow get big yards on the ground....

Donte Hightower came in and started at ILB last year as a true freshman....just like McClain did when he was a freshman....only Hightower has the potential to be even better than Rolando....not to mention a leader and physical presence at SS in Justin Woodall....

The key IMO is going to be how Bama replaces Andre Smith and Antoine Caldwell on the offensive line....and how Greg McElroy handles his first start...I do think VT's secondary matches up well with Bama's receivers though...specifically Virgil and Chancellor....

I agree with JCane though....you give Nick Saban an entire year to prepare....and you've got your work cut out for you....as noted by Bama holding the best RB tandem in the country last year in James Davis and C.J. Spiller to a combined ZERO rushing yards in the first game last year....

JCane
07-06-2009, 05:21 AM
I don't know who wins this game...all I know is this....Bama's defense is every bit as good at that LSU defense was....

VT's bread and butter is running the football.....and I don't believe anybody in the country can run the football on Bama....not gonna happen...they couldn't do it last year and they certainly won't do it this year....Tyrod Taylor is going to have to win that football game for VT....

But it's not just Terrance Cody, Rolando McClain and Javier Arenas for Bama's defense....they're loaded everywhere....Kareem Jackson is one of the best cover corners in the country....and you'll know a lot more about him by the time the draft rolls around next April....I promise...

Brandon Deadrick is one of the most complete and disciplined DE's in the country....ask Tim Tebow....everytime Tebow tried to run against Bama in the SEC championship game....Deadrick was right there to get him and never let Tebow get big yards on the ground....

Donte Hightower came in and started at ILB last year as a true freshman....just like McClain did when he was a freshman....only Hightower has the potential to be even better than Rolando....not to mention a leader and physical presence at SS in Justin Woodall....

The key IMO is going to be how Bama replaces Andre Smith and Antoine Caldwell on the offensive line....and how Greg McElroy handles his first start...I do think VT's secondary matches up well with Bama's receivers though...specifically Virgil and Chancellor....

I agree with JCane though....you give Nick Saban an entire year to prepare....and you've got your work cut out for you....as noted by Bama holding the best RB tandem in the country last year in James Davis and C.J. Spiller to a combined ZERO rushing yards in the first game last year....

Alabama v. Clemson last season to open the year. Clemson was handing Alabama a touchdown in Vegas. I took Alabama straight up and laughed my way to the bank. Easiest money I made all year. I know enough about that Clemson program living just minutes from the campus to know that Tommy Bowden ran the softest camp in the country. On the opposite sideline was the man who runs the toughest camp in the country: Nick Saban. No-brainer.

VT Dolphan
07-06-2009, 11:53 AM
Alabama v. Clemson last season to open the year. Clemson was handing Alabama a touchdown in Vegas. I took Alabama straight up and laughed my way to the bank. Easiest money I made all year. I know enough about that Clemson program living just minutes from the campus to know that Tommy Bowden ran the softest camp in the country. On the opposite sideline was the man who runs the toughest camp in the country: Nick Saban. No-brainer.

Yeah, Alabama/VT should be a hell of a season opener. I would like to think that VT should be very well prepared for this game as well. Beamer is a great coach, but we lost our opener last season in Blacksburg to ECU. I imagine that was simply a case of not taking them seriously, which I'm sure won't be the case against Bama.

Considering that Tommy Bowden is a complete moron, I wouldn't put too much stock into what happened last year in that game.

Finfang
07-06-2009, 12:36 PM
If Josh Nesbitt stays healthy Georgia Tech will win the ACC this season.

No one is going to be able to stop that triple option!

Ferretsquig
07-06-2009, 04:29 PM
The good, disciplined defenses didn't seem to have too much trouble stopping it last year. But its the same with the Phin's wildcat.....introduce a real passing threat and it could blossom. So long as noone respects Nesbitt's passing ability, the good teams will shut them down.

VT Dolphan
07-06-2009, 05:33 PM
Exactly. A spread passing offense such as Texas Tech can probably throw for more yards in a single game than Georgia Tech will all season. Nesbitt is dangerous with his legs, but with his accuracy, the defense might as well put every man in the box. I fully expect GT to lead the ACC in rushing, but if their passing game is as woeful as last year, they're not going to win the division.

Finfang
07-06-2009, 08:39 PM
Exactly. A spread passing offense such as Texas Tech can probably throw for more yards in a single game than Georgia Tech will all season. Nesbitt is dangerous with his legs, but with his accuracy, the defense might as well put every man in the box. I fully expect GT to lead the ACC in rushing, but if their passing game is as woeful as last year, they're not going to win the division.

There is no doubt that Georgia Tech's passing game was anemic last season but Nesbitt was banged up most of the season with hamstring and ankle injuries. The guy has the arm and I'll agree he needs to work on his accuracy but never really was able to get into any type of rythym because of the injuries. He missed two games as well. Josh has the arm strength and I look forward to a more balanced attack hopefully using the deep ball to stretch the defense.

The Jackets will be returning 10 starters on offense and 8 starters on defense to a team that was 9-3 last season not including the bowl game against LSU which I tend to want to forget. (My wife is an LSU fan, New Years Eve was fun.) Paul Johnson has done a wonderful job with this team in his first season as head coach. The defense will still be strong despite losing Michael Johnson. The running game will be phenomenal with Dwyer.

Like I stated before if Josh Nesbitt can stay healthy GT has a great chance to win the ACC. That is a huge key IMO.

JCane
07-06-2009, 11:41 PM
Yeah, Alabama/VT should be a hell of a season opener. I would like to think that VT should be very well prepared for this game as well. Beamer is a great coach, but we lost our opener last season in Blacksburg to ECU. I imagine that was simply a case of not taking them seriously, which I'm sure won't be the case against Bama.

Considering that Tommy Bowden is a complete moron, I wouldn't put too much stock into what happened last year in that game.

Tommy Bowden certainly isn't comparable to Frank Beamer. I hope I didn't imply that lol.

TedSlimmJr
09-07-2009, 11:15 AM
ACC football...

:lol2:

chrisbaucom
09-07-2009, 12:44 PM
ACC football...

:lol2:


....lost to William & Mary, Richmond, Baylor, South Carolina, and Alabama. And probably would've lost to Blind Sisters of the Poor had somebody from the ACC played them. :crazy:

TedSlimmJr
09-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Yep...don't forget the 40 point drubbing Cal put on Maryland too...lol

Pathetic...

chrisbaucom
09-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Forgot about that one...............it just gets worse.

Ferretsquig
09-08-2009, 11:30 PM
The ACC isn't all that bad.....its just more top heavy than its been in a while. Oddly enough the conference being weaker could be just what a UNC, VT, GT, or Miami needs to get one of those elusive BCS bids.

If they can find some receivers, the heels will have a pretty good team this year.

TedSlimmJr
09-09-2009, 01:36 PM
The ACC isn't all that bad.....its just more top heavy than its been in a while. Oddly enough the conference being weaker could be just what a UNC, VT, GT, or Miami needs to get one of those elusive BCS bids.

If they can find some receivers, the heels will have a pretty good team this year.


Well, the point of this thread was a futile attempt to show that despite the SEC's elite teams being better than the ACC's elite teams, which is a given...... that the ACC's bottom feeders are better than the SEC's bottom feeders....

Which again proved wrong...

The SEC went 11-1 on opening weekend...with the only loss coming to a top 5 team on the road by Georgia to Oklahoma State...

Meanwhile....the ACC is busy losing to 1-AA opponents and getting blown out by the PAC-10......meanwhile going 0-2 against the SEC...

There are at least 5 teams in the SEC that would beat the best team the ACC has to offer......whoever that ends up being....

TaCoB
09-11-2009, 05:26 PM
the acc is terrible at football, just like the sec is in basketball, been like that for a long time

Awsi Dooger
09-11-2009, 05:42 PM
The good, disciplined defenses didn't seem to have too much trouble stopping it last year.

That's pure mythology. Discipline is doomed against the option, always has been and always will be. You beat the option by disrupting the interior exchange, before the play gets a chance to evolve as intended.

Most of all, you beat it with superior talent. A triple option could win a national championship today if a top 10 program adopted it. When the highest talent level it can find is Georgia Tech, then naturally it's limited.

The biggest joke in sports is mid level teams staying away from the option because they don't think they can win a title with it. Meanwhile, the vast majority of those schools can't win a title with ANY style because they are outmanned. They could win more games with the option but it's not sexy enough.

The greatest beneficiaries of the option going by the wayside are defensive coordinators. It caused them nothing but headaches.

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 02:08 PM
UNC losing to UConn, Wake losing to Stanford by 14 at home, Dook losing to Army today.

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 02:18 PM
UNC down 10.

Wake down 7.

VT up 7.

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 03:28 PM
Wake and UNC both won nail biters.

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 03:44 PM
Pretty good start for the day of football...alot of good game today.

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Florida State down 9-7 to J'ville State

Maryland down 7 to James Madison

Jesus Christ.

Ferretsquig
09-12-2009, 08:38 PM
That's pure mythology. Discipline is doomed against the option, always has been and always will be. You beat the option by disrupting the interior exchange, before the play gets a chance to evolve as intended.

Carolina got no penetration up the middle last year and beat GT with ease. And please don't try to tell me that there is some great talent disparity between the tar heels and tech after the tenure of that masterful recruiter Bunting.

Kdawg954
09-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Yep, FSU in a dogfight with the Ryan Perrioloux (sp? remember him) led Jacksonville State Gamecocks.

This would definitely temper some of the Canes fans down here in South Florida . . . who some have said "Tebow will remember us" . . . since winning on Monday (meaning we will meet Florida in the BCS championship game).

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 09:19 PM
Looks like FSU's going to take it 19-9

CedarPhin
09-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Looks like UMDs going to win as well in OT.

HurriPhin
09-13-2009, 06:17 AM
Yep, FSU in a dogfight with the Ryan Perrioloux (sp? remember him) led Jacksonville State Gamecocks.

This would definitely temper some of the Canes fans down here in South Florida . . . who some have said "Tebow will remember us" . . . since winning on Monday (meaning we will meet Florida in the BCS championship game).

FSUcks' struggles has nothing to do with the U now. They had a big let down after Monday night and a very quick 5 day turnaround. Facing a lesser opponent after those circumstances makes it hard to get up for that type of game in that amount of time. It takes nothing away from Miami's win in the season opener.

Kdawg954
09-13-2009, 09:05 AM
FSUcks' struggles has nothing to do with the U now. They had a big let down after Monday night and a very quick 5 day turnaround. Facing a lesser opponent after those circumstances makes it hard to get up for that type of game in that amount of time. It takes nothing away from Miami's win in the season opener.

Nah it takes nothing away from the win . . . but if you have listened to local talk radio during the week . . . fans are nuts. Think about it . . . if the WR catches the ball on that last play . . . the team is getting trashed and Randy is getting scrutinized heavy once again (especially with the squib kicks). Since he dropped it . . . now we are headed to the BCS title game. Just a bit extreme for me, one game at a time. Georgia Tech and that option is not easy at all, as we all saw last year. I can't think all the way to January, not yet atleast.

I agree with you on FSU, just I hope fans realize that game on Monday wasn't #1 vs. #2 . . . it was an emotional rivalry game on Labor Day, primetime with all the focus on them. Not a battle of the 2 best teams in college.

kpcane
09-18-2009, 02:26 PM
I'll tell ya this much though.....I'd take Paul Johnson over Randy Shannon 7 days a week and twice on Saturdays.....he's a better coach....



:lol:

Namor
09-18-2009, 03:14 PM
Paul Johnson >Randy Shannon without Whipple

TedSlimmJr
09-18-2009, 03:24 PM
Paul Johnson:

118-44 overall record

2008 - ACC Coach of the Year

2008 - CBSSports.com National Coach of the Year

2004 - Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year

2000 - AFCA/NCAA 1-AA Coach of the Year

1999 - AFCA/NCAA 1-AA Coach of the Year

1998 - Sports Network 1-AA Coach of the Year

1998 - Eddie Robinson Award

1998 - Southern Conference Coach of the Year

1997 - Southern Conference Coach of the Year


1 of only 4 coaches to ever record 50 wins in their first 4 seasons as a head coach at the Division-1 level...

Navy 2-12 prior to his arrival...

1-0 vs. rival Georgia

You don't even want to see what he's done in the ACC compared to Randy Shannon....



They're 1-1 head to head.....





Randy Shannon = .500 coach without Mark Whipple.....in fact....probably unemployed without Mark Whipple....

Namor
09-18-2009, 03:42 PM
Paul Johnson:

118-44 overall record

2008 - ACC Coach of the Year

2008 - CBSSports.com National Coach of the Year

2004 - Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year

2000 - AFCA/NCAA 1-AA Coach of the Year

1999 - AFCA/NCAA 1-AA Coach of the Year

1998 - Sports Network 1-AA Coach of the Year

1998 - Eddie Robinson Award

1998 - Southern Conference Coach of the Year

1997 - Southern Conference Coach of the Year


1 of only 4 coaches to ever record 50 wins in their first 4 seasons as a head coach at the Division-1 level...

Navy 2-12 prior to his arrival...

1-0 vs. rival Georgia

You don't even want to see what he's done in the ACC compared to Randy Shannon....



They're 1-1 head to head.....





Randy Shannon = .500 coach without Mark Whipple.....in fact....probably unemployed without Mark Whipple....

How dare you Ted,bringing facts to a arguement!

kpcane
09-18-2009, 04:02 PM
Yeah let's ignore that Randy Shannon's players are starting to develop and that Paul Johnson's one scheme offense has been figured out. And also that Paul Johnson inherited Jonathan Dwyer, and Shannon inherited a bunch of Kyle Wrights. Randy Shannon may not have the media accolades (aka facts according to Namor) nor did he pile up wins in weak conferences, but he has had incredible success as a defensive coordinator at the BCS level, and he's been a heck of a recruiter, and collector of talent at the assistant coaching level. And unlike a gadget offense, Shannon's success will continue, and I guarantee that Shannon will compete for a national title way before Paul Johnson ever does. In fact, I don't EVER see that triple option offense being successful enough to get a national title at the D-1A level.

Namor
09-18-2009, 04:06 PM
Any ACC win is a win in a weak conferance.

kpcane
09-18-2009, 04:14 PM
Any ACC win is a win in a weak conferance.

Can you wake me up when you have anything interesting to add?

Namor
09-18-2009, 04:18 PM
Yeah let's ignore that Randy Shannon's players are starting to develop and that Paul Johnson's one scheme offense has been figured out. And also that Paul Johnson inherited Jonathan Dwyer, and Shannon inherited a bunch of Kyle Wrights. Randy Shannon may not have the media accolades (aka facts according to Namor) nor did he pile up wins in weak conferences, but he has had incredible success as a defensive coordinator at the BCS level, and he's been a heck of a recruiter, and collector of talent at the assistant coaching level. And unlike a gadget offense, Shannon's success will continue, and I guarantee that Shannon will compete for a national title way before Paul Johnson ever does. In fact, I don't EVER see that triple option offense being successful enough to get a national title at the D-1A level.

Take it easy,kp..I just like busting your balls.
I really like Miami (not as much as Bama)..it's that Johnson's
offense didn't lose that game,his crappy defense did.
Any coach+Whipple w/the talent (S. Fla)=success.
So I believe that Johnson has done more with less.

kpcane
09-18-2009, 04:25 PM
Take it easy,kp..I just like busting your balls.
I really like Miami (not as much as Bama)..it's that Johnson's
offense didn't lose that game,his crappy defense did.
Any coach+Whipple w/the talent (S. Fla)=success.
So I believe that Johnson has done more with less.

I'm too lazy to show you the stats to compare this year's game to last year's and also the Miami/FSU game earlier in the year to prove to you that we won last night's game because we stopped that offense. We were going to score points last night, everyone knew that, but we had to stop the triple option, and we did with ease. That's why we won.

Namor
09-18-2009, 04:41 PM
I'm too lazy to show you the stats to compare this year's game to last year's and also the Miami/FSU game earlier in the year to prove to you that we won last night's game because we stopped that offense. We were going to score points last night, everyone knew that, but we had to stop the triple option, and we did with ease. That's why we won.

Ok..Ok.. the way to stop the triple option is to limit the amount of
touches the offense gets.Make them play catch up football.
I'm impressed with Miami..check out my posts..I predicted them starting
off 3 and 1. ,losing to OK. because the other three were against,well..
ACC teams.
FSU and GT have HORRIBLE defenses..If Miami can move and score against VT's defense,I'll be REAL impressed.
We both like Miami,I just don't think Shannon is a elite coach.
With the talent that Miami always has,any coach is going to do well.
but when they have a elite coach,they have been one of the most feared
teams in the nation.
I wish the SEC could trade Vandy and Kentucky to the ACC for
FSU and Miami.That would be a out of this world football conference.
And the ACC would be the same type of out of this world basketball
conference.

kpcane
09-18-2009, 04:51 PM
Ok..Ok.. the way to stop the triple option is to limit the amount of
touches the offense gets.Make them play catch up football.
I'm impressed with Miami..check out my posts..I predicted them starting
off 3 and 1. ,losing to OK. because the other three were against,well..
ACC teams.
FSU and GT have HORRIBLE defenses..If Miami can move and score against VT's defense,I'll be REAL impressed.
We both like Miami,I just don't think Shannon is a elite coach.
With the talent that Miami always has,any coach is going to do well.
but when they have a elite coach,they have been one of the most feared
teams in the nation.
I wish the SEC could trade Vandy and Kentucky to the ACC for
FSU and Miami.That would be a out of this world football conference.
And the ACC would be the same type of out of this world basketball
conference.

It wasn't just that man. I think I heard that they averaged 2.4 yards per carry? Come on man.

Anyway, I don't know if Shannon is elite, he hasn't been here long enough. I just really don't understand people saying that a guy like Paul Johnson or Greg Schiano, etc. is better. I trust Randy because he's doing this all the 'right' way. He knows how to get talent around him, and that's more important than being a guy with a bunch of tricky schemes. This is also why I'm not sold on Tony Sparano.

And again, Larry Coker didn't do well when all of Butch's guys left. It's not a given that you'll be able to succeed at Miami, or in the state of Florida. Unfortunately, when we raised our academic standards, guys started going elsewhere, but it seems like now we're back on track.

By the way - I'd love it if we went to the SEC. To me, I don't see a huge difference in the conferences, but at least we'd get the respect of being in that conference, although I'd imagine we'd have the same record. This year, it only looks to be 3 or 4 good teams with a bunch of bad teams.

Namor
09-18-2009, 04:53 PM
It wasn't just that man. I think I heard that they averaged 2.4 yards per carry? Come on man.

Anyway, I don't know if Shannon is elite, he hasn't been here long enough. I just really don't understand people saying that a guy like Paul Johnson or Greg Schiano, etc. is better. I trust Randy because he's doing this all the 'right' way. He knows how to get talent around him, and that's more important than being a guy with a bunch of tricky schemes. This is also why I'm not sold on Tony Sparano.

And again, Larry Coker didn't do well when all of Butch's guys left. It's not a given that you'll be able to succeed at Miami, or in the state of Florida. Unfortunately, when we raised our academic standards, guys started going elsewhere, but it seems like now we're back on track.

By the way - I'd love it if we went to the SEC. To me, I don't see a huge difference in the conferences, but at least we'd get the respect of being in that conference, although I'd imagine we'd have the same record. This year, it only looks to be 3 or 4 good teams with a bunch of bad teams.

i can live with that.

TedSlimmJr
09-20-2009, 05:01 AM
Question is....can ACC fans live with 2 more losses to Conference USA and the Sun Belt.....:chuckle:

Kdawg954
09-20-2009, 10:47 AM
Question is....can ACC fans live with 2 more losses to Conference USA and the Sun Belt.....:chuckle:

When you beat a top 10 BYU and a top 20 Nebraska team . . . you can live with 2 of the 3 weakest teams in the conference losing to lower conferences.

Boy has Maryland and Virginia looked HORRIBLE this year. Usually they are atleast decent. If they would have squeaked out those wins yesterday, I think the ACC would be getting alot of props this week.

kpcane
09-20-2009, 12:16 PM
Question is....can ACC fans live with 2 more losses to Conference USA and the Sun Belt.....:chuckle:

The real question is whether the ACC bashers can deal with an UNRANKED ACC team going on the road against the #7 team in the country, and downright destroying them in what wasn't even a contest. Does that UM win over FSU mean anything now? Seems like the OU game will be somewhat competitive despite what all the 'experts' on here thought in the beginning of the season.
Oh yeah, Va Tech picked up a win against a ranked Big 12 opponent as well. But whatever, I mean, it was too close right? Let's move them down in the rankings.....:rolleyes2:

TedSlimmJr
09-20-2009, 12:30 PM
Hey we're all just having a little fun....picking at each other, etc...

...boy you ACC fans are touchy...:chuckle:


I don't see how Groh can keep his job much longer...

And what were the "blackshirts" doing letting that guy get behind them for a 100 yard gain when they had it won....:lol:

I certainly didn't expect FSU to throttle BYU like that....

After the FSU/UM game....I still couldn't decide who the better team was....still can't...

Hopefully they'll get a chance to settle it in Jacksonville or Tampa....or wherever they play that game at....

Awsi Dooger
09-20-2009, 01:25 PM
If the option is evaluated by a sample of two, Navy and Georgia Tech, neither of which has top tier talent, then obviously it's going to flop and be ridiculed.

Paul Johnson needs a true option QB. Nesbitt is too big and plodding, too slow making the dive play and rarely getting to the corner. It indicates how invisible option football has become if Nesbitt is considered a decent option QB. I was a huge Sooner fan during the wishbone years. I doubt Nesbitt could have been above third string on any of those teams.

Plus, as I posted in the UM thread several weeks ago, option teams are very vulnerable early in the season, before the timing and execution are down pat. The media never makes the distinction. As long as Johnson is at Georgia Tech, the Canes will benefit from a September meeting but be more in jeopardy facing Johnson in November, like last year.

kpcane
09-20-2009, 04:48 PM
It's kinda hard not to be 'touchy' when the media constantly dogs your conference and affects recruiting and national rankings.

Namor
09-20-2009, 06:08 PM
BYU was WAY overated and didn't deserve to #7.
Miami deserves to be #9,maybe higher.
Alabama definitley deserves #3 maybe higher ,Texas didn't
look that great.
But it will all come out in the wash as the season unfolds.

chrisbaucom
09-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Based on the football played so far THIS year, if I were a voter my top 5 would be this:

1. Alabama (stifling defense, going to be tough to beat)
2. Florida (they really miss Harvin and Murphy)
3. Texas (but I didn't like how they looked Saturday night)
4. Penn State (no competition so far, but have looked pretty good)
5. Ole Miss (I have a feeling we will see how overrated they are once they play Bama)

I was watching College Football Final last night, and take this for what it's worth. Herbie's top 5 went like this:

1. Florida
2. Alabama
3. Texas
4. Penn State
5. Miami (Seriously, he put Miami at 5)

CedarPhin
09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Ole Miss is a solid football team. Snead's a legit QB, their D is stout, and they're well coached.

chrisbaucom
09-20-2009, 06:36 PM
Jeff Sagarin NCAA football ratings


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm


I like this poll.....

chrisbaucom
09-20-2009, 06:37 PM
Ole Miss is a solid football team. Snead's a legit QB, their D is stout, and they're well coached.

I agree about Sneed and their D....I am not sold on Houston Nutt, never have been but I like him and I hope he proves me wrong.

Namor
09-20-2009, 08:14 PM
Ole Miss is a solid football team. Snead's a legit QB, their D is stout, and they're well coached.

If Snead has a solid year,he could be looking at the #1 pick in the draft.

Finfang
10-17-2009, 09:08 PM
Georgia Tech beats Virginia Tech 28-23. :woot:

I love it!!!!!!

kpcane
10-17-2009, 09:13 PM
People have been on Georgia Tech since we whipped up on them, but that has been their only loss all season. They've been pretty impressive. I'm glad we only play both of these teams once. If we can get FSU going, this is going to turn into a power conference sooner rather than later. Va Tech's only other loss was to probably the best team in the country. The rest of the SEC hasn't impressed much at all, but Alabama looks like the best team in college football right now.

CedarPhin
10-17-2009, 09:28 PM
Bama's only up 7 on South Carolina right now.

CedarPhin
10-17-2009, 09:30 PM
Georgia Tech beats Virginia Tech 28-23. :woot:

I love it!!!!!!

That was a great win. Definitely throws the ACC race up in the air.

Finfang
10-17-2009, 10:19 PM
That was a great win. Definitely throws the ACC race up in the air.

It definitely does.

I have to hope for a Canes loss in the conference though. You guys have the tiebreaker. I also need GT to win out.

I haven't looked but I believe the Hurricanes play Wake Forest, Clemson, UNC still.

It should be interesting to see how it unfolds.

CedarPhin
10-17-2009, 10:22 PM
I really think the UNC game is going to be a tough one, especially with it being up in Chapel Hill.

Clemson-UM should be a good game next weekend.

Finfang
10-17-2009, 10:26 PM
GT goes to Virginia next Saturday. I think the Cavs are 3-0 in the conference.

That is going to be a tough game.

Finfang
10-24-2009, 08:00 PM
Georgia Tech's win over Virginia today along with the Miami loss to Clemson puts the Jackets in sole possession of the ACC Coastal division. A win against WF on 11/7 and a win at Duke on 11/14 puts Georgia Tech in the ACC Championship game.

I said it at the beginning of the season and I'll keep saying it.

Georgia Tech will win the ACC Championship this season. :woot:

CedarPhin
10-29-2009, 10:44 PM
Chokies lose to UNC, 20-17.

Didn't see that one coming.

CedarPhin
10-29-2009, 10:45 PM
So if GT loses one more, this race is wide-open again.

JCane
10-29-2009, 10:46 PM
lulz

CedarPhin
10-29-2009, 10:48 PM
The look on their RB's face was priceless...dude wouldn't leave the bench for at least 5 mins.

I love it when they choke.

Ferretsquig
10-29-2009, 10:56 PM
ACC Coastal rankings:

GT
Duke
Virginia
VT
Miami
UNC

Something seriously wrong with that....

Namor
10-29-2009, 11:12 PM
How the freak did Miami lose to VT?

JCane
10-29-2009, 11:23 PM
How the freak did Miami lose to VT?

People can laugh and say we're making excuses but I'm telling you that weather had a lot to do with it. The team didn't even bring jackets for God's sake.

CedarPhin
10-30-2009, 03:41 AM
How the freak did Miami lose to VT?

Weather, and we were ill-prepared.

Finfang
11-01-2009, 12:39 AM
One helluva fourth QTR on Halloween!

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/10296654/No.-11-Georgia-Tech-56,-Vanderbilt-31

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 12:45 AM
For a minute there, I thought Vandy was going to win...that was quite an outburst.

Finfang
11-01-2009, 12:49 AM
For a minute there, I thought Vandy was going to win...that was quite an outburst.

They were killing GT's defense early on.

It was ugly. I was watching on 360 LOL.

Dwyer was great tonight.

BayBay. D Thomas. Hell you know.

Josh used the arm. Go figure.

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 12:51 AM
Hopefully they get past Duke and Wake...which admittedly shouldn't be too hard.

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 12:51 AM
They should roll UGA this year too.

Finfang
11-01-2009, 12:57 AM
They should roll UGA this year too.

The UGA game to me isn't as important as I guess it should be considering the rivalry. I want to get to the ACCCG more. Loved the UGA game last season though. I've told you before to come out in the second half last season and run on them and win was fun.

Take care of Duke LOL and WF and GT is in. I want to get to Tampa.

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 01:00 AM
UGAs looking less than stellar this year, so I think GT takes it going away.

Dooks going to be an easy win, and WF should be provided GT doesn't go into a total shell.

If it's not Miami, I'm just glad it's not Virginia Tech.

Finfang
11-01-2009, 01:00 AM
Don't want to play Clemson again though if we get there.

Scared of Spiller and the Tigers. :up:

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 01:02 AM
Spiller is a machine. Their QB is average, but if Spiller is going, they've got it made.

Finfang
11-01-2009, 01:03 AM
UGAs looking less than stellar this year, so I think GT takes it going away.

Dooks going to be an easy win, and WF should be provided GT doesn't go into a total shell.

If it's not Miami, I'm just glad it's not Virginia Tech.

As much as it pains me to say I felt bad for Williams freshman right? for Vag Tech.

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 01:10 AM
He looked like he was the loneliest guy in the stadium on Thursday. What a way to lose the game...especially because of how good he's been this season.

Awsi Dooger
11-01-2009, 03:04 AM
Six straight covers for Georgia Tech since the Miami game. What a shock.

Option teams are always great against the number. I knew guys who gave up sports betting when the options teams disappeared, because they didn't want to have to work at it instead of merely wagering on the option teams.

By all rights the option should return in greater numbers, based on Georgia Tech's success. I absolutely love to watch that offense. The spread could not be more tedious. I'm always clicking to game after game trying to find a matchup not involving at least one boring spread team.

TedSlimmJr
11-01-2009, 03:33 PM
How the freak did Miami lose to VT?


I don't know.....but I'm thinking being physically whipped in all 3 phases....particularly at the LOS....and being outcoached may have had something to do with it....

Sorta like what WF did to them again yesterday....and Clemson the week before...etc...

Oh...and they forgot their jackets....:lol:

JCane
11-01-2009, 03:36 PM
Weak flame.

TedSlimmJr
11-01-2009, 03:51 PM
To the contrary......I couldn't be anymore dead serious...

But here's the worst part.....I think the "jacket" excuse is legitimate to some extent....

...that's how mentally fragile and weak the team is....


You would've thought that Miami would be ready to roll once they got into the heart of their conference schedule after achieving 3-1 through those brutal first 4 games....to show that they are really "back" and ready to take control in the Coastal....

But....this Miami team even fooled me again....I think we all thought that they were ready to take it to another level....

...they're not.....

They're the same inconsistent team that Canes fans have seen year in and year out recently....the only difference is that the quarterback play is MUCH better than Canes fans have seen it in years....even when Harris is bad he's better than anything I've seen under center in Miami since Dorsey...

Here's what I think....when Miami focuses on playing as a TEAM...such as they all knew they had to stop GT's offense....Oklahoma, etc.....they can play with anybody....

The problem is I don't see that same TEAM concept when they play inferior competition....they play like a bunch of individual recruits out there....

That comes down to coaching and leadership JCane....

JCane
11-01-2009, 04:27 PM
That comes down to coaching and leadership JCane....

So then it has nothing to do with the team. I firmly believe it's not the team. Trust me, I seen Randy up close and personal yesterday during the Wake Forest game and he might as well lay his headset on the sideline and watch from the locker room because he isn't coaching period. We have the players. We have the athletes. No question about it. We have the players and athletes to line up with anyone in the country...we may not beat everyone but there's no reason we can't line up and be competitive with anyone. It's all on Randy Shannon. Every bit of it. He's not pushing this team the way Saban and Meyer push their guys. It's absolutely pathetic.

TedSlimmJr
11-01-2009, 04:40 PM
So then it has nothing to do with the team. I firmly believe it's not the team. Trust me, I seen Randy up close and personal yesterday during the Wake Forest game and he might as well lay his headset on the sideline and watch from the locker room because he isn't coaching period. We have the players. We have the athletes. No question about it. We have the players and athletes to line up with anyone in the country...we may not beat everyone but there's no reason we can't line up and be competitive with anyone. It's all on Randy Shannon. Every bit of it. He's not pushing this team the way Saban and Meyer push their guys. It's absolutely pathetic.


No doubt....I pointed this out in the VT game....

I suggested someone slap Randy Shannon and wake him up....tell him his team is getting manhandled out there....I never saw him uncross his arms or break his lips apart....

That only works if you're Bear Bryant....

Coach RANDY! That's what they're paying you for....to inspire these athletes and get the best out of them on every play....

Hell...watch 80 year old Papa Joe on the sidelines....he goes nuts at least once every game....and he knows exactly WHEN to do it...

The coaching is to blame no question....but I also think Miami lacks leadership ON the field.....particularly on defense.....

The best teams and units the country have that leadership in the form of certain players ON the field as well...

JCane
11-01-2009, 04:49 PM
We lack leadership on defense because we don't have a big time playmaker at the linebacker position. Our leader on defense is essentially Darryl Sharpton. And as much as I hate to say it because I love that kid's Mom and Dad like they're my own, he is AWFUL. He misses too many tackles. And you can't be a true leader on the football field if you can't produce on the football field. Our best player on defense is Brandon Harris and he's in the secondary. Jacory is a great leader for the offense. Guys respect Jacory and really fall in line with Jacory. But Jacory makes too many young mistakes.

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 08:19 PM
WF's slants were absolutely demolishing us yesterday.

CedarPhin
11-01-2009, 08:20 PM
No doubt....I pointed this out in the VT game....

I suggested someone slap Randy Shannon and wake him up....tell him his team is getting manhandled out there....I never saw him uncross his arms or break his lips apart....

That only works if you're Bear Bryant....

Coach RANDY! That's what they're paying you for....to inspire these athletes and get the best out of them on every play....

Hell...watch 80 year old Papa Joe on the sidelines....he goes nuts at least once every game....and he knows exactly WHEN to do it...

The coaching is to blame no question....but I also think Miami lacks leadership ON the field.....particularly on defense.....

The best teams and units the country have that leadership in the form of certain players ON the field as well...

In some ways, he's just like Coker, who'd just stand there on the sideline looking like he didn't know whether to **** or go blind.

He's just got no emotion at all..save for a few claps here and there.

kpcane
11-02-2009, 01:22 PM
We lack leadership on defense because we don't have a big time playmaker at the linebacker position. Our leader on defense is essentially Darryl Sharpton. And as much as I hate to say it because I love that kid's Mom and Dad like they're my own, he is AWFUL. He misses too many tackles. And you can't be a true leader on the football field if you can't produce on the football field. Our best player on defense is Brandon Harris and he's in the secondary. Jacory is a great leader for the offense. Guys respect Jacory and really fall in line with Jacory. But Jacory makes too many young mistakes.

J- please tell me you have some inside info on Arthur Brown. When is he going to see the field? Is there anyone else that can take over MLB? What about McCarthy moving over, this year or next? We seem to have a good number of OLB's that could take McCarthy's place, if necessary.

Finfang
11-14-2009, 04:04 PM
Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2009 ACC Coastal Division Champs! :woot:

On to Tampa Bay to win the ACC.

finfan3223
11-14-2009, 04:40 PM
J- please tell me you have some inside info on Arthur Brown. When is he going to see the field? Is there anyone else that can take over MLB? What about McCarthy moving over, this year or next? We seem to have a good number of OLB's that could take McCarthy's place, if necessary.


Yeah I would like some info on Arthur Brown too. I see him out their on special teams, but not at linebacker. Any info would be much appreciated. :up:

kpcane
11-15-2009, 09:43 PM
ACC has 5 teams ranked in the Coaches poll this week - most of any conference.

JCane
11-15-2009, 11:41 PM
J- please tell me you have some inside info on Arthur Brown. When is he going to see the field? Is there anyone else that can take over MLB? What about McCarthy moving over, this year or next? We seem to have a good number of OLB's that could take McCarthy's place, if necessary.

Sorry. Just now seeing this post. What I've been told about Arthur Brown is that he's just no grasping the scheme. Personally, I don't understand how this is true becaus Randy has been running this same Cover 2 scheme for years. I just can't see Randy's defense being that difficult to understand. Then again, perhaps Arthur understands it but once he gets on the field with it he doesn't understand it if that makes any sense. It's kinda like knowing the material for a major exam but bombing when the pressure is on.

You also have to consider the fact that Randy does and will play his favorites. It doesn't matter how poorly Sharpton plays, Sharpton will play. And guys like Sharpton take away playing time from the kids who can play. I don't think McCarthy moves over because that's just not Shannon's style to move people like that unless he's forced to. Allen Bailey had to move around on the defensive line because of depth issues and injury. Spence will be healthy next season. Ramon Buchanon should see more playing time at linebacker and we're still recruiting Jeff Luc pretty hard although I don't think Luc is as good as advertised. I don't pay too much attention to star ratings by the scouting services but I do believe Rivals dropped Luc from a five-star to a four-star recruit recently. But even if Luc does come and play well, he could easily end up in the same boat as Arthur Brown.